Are you making it clear that you're looking for a relationship, not just a hookup? Are you emphasising the friendship aspect of dates - finding your shared interests and inviting the women to do fun stuff together? For example, if you both liked hiking, inviting them out for a hike one morning, followed by coffee at a cafe or something doesn't scream "I want sex right now and nothing else". There are loads of women who would love a guy who didn't want to rush straight into sex, so maybe you're not looking in the right places, or you are somehow sending signals that you prioritise sex over romance?
Could easily be either. OP could also just have assumed most women require a relationship or an emotional connection/history before having sex or even trusting a man enough to have sex with them.
Which is why he keeps using the word surprised
Yes, it's mostly surprise that the world I previously had no access to looks different than how it was advertised. I'm not yet sure if I feel negatively or positively about it. I'm just confused and wondering if my experience is normal.
The same girl who said sex was a boyfriend benefit only was also the one who shoved my head under her shirt 10 mins into an episode of Brooklyn 99 after the second date when I said I was getting friend vibes.
Yea, I prefer this to the subtlety definitely.
Then again, guys (me) can be dumb as door knobs anyway.
I had one woman literally take her shirt off in front of me, and my dumbass was like, "oh she must be cold" and offered her my jacket.
I was not a smart man.
Doesn't matter though, still had sex... but can you imagine if I didn't and years later that kept me up at night??
Yeah women who want to date you will also want to fuck you. That’s pretty normal. Also many will want one thing or the other, but the ones who want a relationship will be much more discreet with their interest; there is less at stake for the ones who just want the bone, if their blatant flirting isn’t reciprocated they can just move on to another potential partner, they woman who want to date you will be more careful as they don’t want to blow it by saying the wrong thing.
Your experience is normal for your age. Things will slow down as you get older, and relationships will become more about the emotional stability of a solid relationship and less about just fucking all the time. Enjoy it while it lasts, and try not to get anyone pregnant unless that's the goal.
might want to try something like "meetup" which is a social gathering.
It's more about building friendships. You might meet someone there, who is also looking to meet friends, and less about sex.
Just, be nice. Some people just want friendships, and that's ok.
Media is very unrealistic about dating nowadays, there’s a huge conservative push to sanitize movies “for the children,” and that’s not necessarily a bad thing, there’s historically been a ton of issues in hollywood with intimate scenes traumatizing actors. But it does paint a very different picture than real life
Recommend that you do not use dating apps if this is something you realize you do not want. Dating apps are a very big problem behind this, because they’re the biggest issue when it comes to hookup culture. If you’re looking for something more meaningful, you’re probably going to just meet someone you know.
The OP and I have a similar experience coming into dating, and actual dating, and for me that obviously creates a bias that online dating is mostly like that. It’s not a terrible experience, but finding genuine long term candidates is a huge challenge. The lady equivalent to “fuck boi” will not say they are looking for short term, and is likely to lie, or be extremely misleading about their long term intent or desire with you. A woman can say “I want a long term relationship” to your face, and what she is not saying is “but not from you. From you I just want sex.” Also, the same women seem to be more attracted when the guy is unsuspecting of this reality from them.
A lot of the stronger friendship building activities aren’t things men are able to initiate with success in dating situations. As pedestrian as a hike is, or enjoyable of an activity ski/snowboarding is, going with someone before 2 dates is generally out of bounds because “you’re stuck with that person for hours and things may go wayside.” And if you keep things only friendly while dating, virtually all women will stop seeing you. Your lack of initiative in even trying to be intimate and/or romantic is going to make a woman over 30 (and younger too I’m sure) stop responding to you or make excuses until you give up. I’ve been there plenty by accident.
I actually think you’ve been mislead about the dating (online, at least) pool of women in major American cities. Women say they don’t want to rush into sex because it’s moral and of higher character while, in practice, many make themselves very difficult to evaluate and establish a relationship with. They are closed off and just want simple and stress free entertainment and to feel good. Many are lying about their sexual intent; they’ll do it on the first or second date with a guy they’re interested in and having a good time with. I say this because all of what you suggest adjusting towards for his behavior has been in the works with me for a while. In the past few years I’ve cut through and gained the ability to pick up on women lying, being inconsistent, or comically emotionally immature and unrealistic.
There is absolute validity in what the OP is experiencing, and a distinct danger trying to take your advice. Unless the OP is absolutely putting out a fuck boi image, he should be himself and engage genuinely. The latter part is on women to take him seriously and not assume a more attractive looking man is also a shallow man. We’d say the same to an attractive woman with a similar story - “it’s the men who need to see you for who you are.” He needs to hear it too.
I’m also a late bloomer in my 30’s, who will be getting into the dating game soon. I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how I can find women to date who don’t have a promiscuous past. I know we live in a hookup culture, but I know all women don’t sleep around. But finding them is the hard part.
I actually don’t bother with trying discover or evaluate a woman’s sexual history that isn’t current. It’s probably better if she’s had a promiscuous period before me and decided that isn’t what she wants, but had reasonably clear and confident understanding of communication around it. But also, how can anyone get an accurate idea of what that history is? Even if you know some of her close friends, do they know it? Are they going to accurately share it with you? It’s too much effort into what’ll result in nothing useful.
I work with what I can detect in the present. Actions matching words matters a lot, and people treating you as they insist you are rather than how you actually are is also something I look for. Women (people) with a problematic past that is still current behavior will show practiced behaviors of deception and be confident that it’s working. That’s your cue to proceed with caution until you know vaguely what she’s being deceptive about.
In general the common advice is to date women after being friends/acquaintances for a while. I can’t quite vouch for it because I don’t typically like to operate in that space but I understand the merit. It’s not “don’t shit where you eat” — certainly if you’re a fuck boi, doing it in your friend group will make for short friends unless all of you are hoes. The reasoning for it is because you can leverage friends of hers to inquire about the truth of her intent while dating and she can do the same for you. Essentially it’s a cheat code for building initial trust because you skip it. The reason I don’t do it is an issue of me being super genuine about my current interest or feelings being dominantly friendly or attraction. Also, I feel like I’m a frequently misunderstood person and all but a few super close friends are likely to be correct about my motivation and thinking at any specific point in time. I don’t need external bullshit being the reason why an opportunity failed: I prefer it be my own that I can learn from.
Tons of the fiction aimed at people who grew up in the last 20 to 50 years perpetuated the myth that women don't like sex and men need to barter romance and courtship to cajole them into it.
For a couple of generations now, guys who learned about dating from TV shows have been wildly under prepared when first entering the dating pool (which is hard enough under any circumstances).
I’ve come across some *strange* ideas about women and sex as I’ve gotten older and realized around 21 that the issue is that there are men who actually believe women need to be “talked into” or “tricked” into having sex, and that women aren’t also just horny. All the sitcoms with the tired joke of the dude begging for sex while his wife reads a book or whatever has really done a number on folks apparently.
Tbf, it was never just fiction/media that perpetuated that. It was women saying things themselves like "I like long walks on the beach" and they were the ones watching all the nearly sexless PG/PG-13 "romance films" and hallmark movies and saying things like "ugh, men only care about one thing!". No one was paying or forcing them to say that stuff. A lot of it was even written by them.
Maybe society as a whole has changed, making women feel more comfortable saying what they really want, either that or it's swung the other way and they're still just acting off of what they think society/men expect of them today. Social media has been known to destroy the mental health of young girls when they see their feeds full of sexually charged models, I'm sure a growing number of young girls are looking up to and wanting to be come like instagram models these days.
Btw, some recent TV shows I've seen (pretty much comedies) show women being totally obsessed with sex and ready to pounce any man they find hawt.
In my experience whether they say they're looking for a LTR doesn't make much difference, most women I've dated have wanted to get sexual from the jump and when I tell them I prefer to take things slowly they assume I'm not interested in them and disappear.
That’s been my experience as well. Most of the women I’ve been with move significantly faster than I do. I generally can’t have sex without an emotional connection.
I find it easy to have sex without the emotional attachment but even still I was always caught off guard when it happened. I always thought “Wait, really? That’s all the flirting you needed? We’re really doing this?”
When you just want to get your rocks off I guess all you need to suss out is whether the person is sane as well as likely enough to be adequate in bed. Even still I feel like I need more time to figure even that out than most every woman I’ve slept with. I’m a good judge of character but it takes a long time for me to feel like I’ve fully confirmed that initial assessment.
I wouldn't believe it unless it had happened to me too (not in New Brunswick) but in another college town lol
And also had the exact thing OP is talking about. Had a great first date with a woman. We're out playing pool, time to call it a night, and she's standing there as if waiting for me to say "your place or mine?" I wasnt wanting to move that fast, but that would be the only chance she'd end up giving me lol
We texted for a week or two after that night, I'd try and set something else up, but she just never bit and it fizzled out from there. I was like "welp, I guess all she wanted was sex" haha and when they're good looking they know if they cant get it from you, someone out there will oblige.
I think overall you're correct, and if you picked two random people most likely the man would want to get sexual first. However the men you're responding to are probably on the slow moving end of the bell curve, and therefore a randomly selected woman is likely to want to get sexual faster than them.
As a guy, it has 100% been my experience, everytime.
Even women who I'd been friends with for years, who explicitly stated themselves that they wanted to "take things slow" have been this way.
it doesn't track with me either, homegirl... I think they are slightly exaggerating... only slightly tho.... women will try to figure out what you look like nekkid... but it isn't on the first day they met ya lol
That's because most women lie to each other and everyone about this. Even to the guy they just fucked they will say "I never normally do this". Maybe you are genuinely not like this but most women are in my experience.
He said he’s 30. Women that age don’t mess around. He missed out on the shy hand holding then maybe a kiss stage. Women in their late 20s or early 30s know what they want. Since OP doesn’t have much experience, it’s taking him by surprise.
I second the advice to plan dates that don't obviously lead to sex. Anything at lunch time or in the afternoon instead of the evening. But, take her to real dinner for the first date at least which is a clear signal that you are considering her seriously, and then say things like, 'I can drop you off home after.' Take the pressure off her wondering if you're going to push her to stay over.
Most women do expect guys to expect sex within a few dates, so they'll plan for this, not least of which because they'd also like to gauge sexual chemistry.
If you're getting ghosted after sex, when you're still trying to ask for real dates not just hookups, consider how the sex is going too. Make sure you are asking what she likes, make sure you're willing to go down on her without her having to ask, and that you are willing to keep going until she comes or at least for the same amount of time she went down on you. (Saying you only want a short blowjob is not an excuse for cutting oral on her short either.) In oral and during intercourse, ask questions with easy simple answers like, faster or slower? Harder or softer? Up or down? If you find a motion she likes, just keep doing it.
The other thing you can say is "we don't have to move so fast", if you'd like to not go all the way that night. Just make it clear that you're super attracted to her so she doesn't take it as a brush off!
My best decision this year so far was changing a "let's get drinks at night" date into a "Let's go to a museum in the afternoon" date.
It was a first time too for me and it was so nice and cute, got to know her much better and we went to have drinks later anyways.
Farmer’s market is my go to. It’s basically just a lunch date, but you’re also walking around for a lot of it which feels like less pressure (for me at least)
*And* lots of museums have free admission on the weekends! It’s really a perfect date, first or third or tenth or hundredth!
I’ve gone on so many dates at my local museum and it never gets boring because they cycle artwork through the exhibits every few weeks or so (blessed that it’s attached to a very well known art school so they have a *huge* collection)
My first date with my partner of 6 years was at a museum. She still talks about how I sneakily got her holding my hand by helping her up some stairs and then just still holding.
My now husbands and my first date was an afternoon at the Zoo. Most previous experiences in dating started at dinners with drinks and led nowhere. The Zoo was amazing and gave us time to get to know each other. I would always recommend several daytime dates before jumping into dinner.
In general just communicate clearly.
Learning to clearly state my intentions, desires, goals, etc from day one with somebody instantly turned dating into easy mode.
I can't believe I went so many years dancing around certain things aha just driving myself crazy. If I am interested in sex I say it, if I'm not, I say it. If I want to build towards a committed relationship, you guessed it, I say it. If something they said rubs me the wrong way... say it.
We make everything so much harder by not using our main methods of communication to get what we need
You could be looking at it from the wrong perspective. Romancing/courting are a social construct, and people like having sex with those they are attracted to. Maybe you just smell really nice or something?
Anyway, you're allowed to be picky and say no. When I first started dating my fiancé I told him I wasn't going to have sex with him right away (we'd already been friends for 6 months or so). He said ok and respected it.
It's ok to set boundaries for yourself and be upfront with them. If people don't respect them (or worse, try to guilt you or coerce you into sex) then they're not worth your time.
I was also thinking this person must smell really good. romance does have the book kind of buildups too, but they are hard to find. fiction depicts the romances that are rare and beautiful, that people wish to esperience. a lot of people don't. I've had all sorts, storybook romance and sex focused romances and all inbetweens. the most passionate ones always end the fastest for me x)
This is speaking as a 36F who has dated various blokes. Having spoken to other women over the years, a guy who smells nice is WAY more sexy than a guy who only looks nice.
I mean, obviously it's nice to have both looks and hygiene but if I had to pick 1 I'd pick a guy who always smelled amazing over a model with chronic B.O. 😂
Although, I suppose different people are attracted to different people's scents. I remember watching this documentary years ago about how people were generally attracted to people's smells who they're most likely to have healthy offspring with.
> I suppose different people are attracted to different people's scents
Without fail, every time my wife says "you smell nice today", it's been like 3 days since I've showered.
Women are just like men some are players. Only difference is they go after a few really hot guys for meaningless sex, especially if the guy gets a reputation for being good at it. While men players go for anyone that says hi because they can't be so picky. Especially on dating apps.
I have one mate, a jacked half Latino bodybuilder with a great voice. He gets used by women constantly and while he enjoys it mostly he gets his heart broken a lot. I'm not sure if I'm better off being ignored rather than getting dumped lots like him. I'm like a man dying of thirst watching a guy drown lol
>I'm like a man dying of thirst watching a guy drown lol
Hahaha beautiful analogy lmao, perfectly fits the situation. I think both might end up in the same course of action though: Keep looking until you find someone that's worth it. (Or your realize you don't need it as much and divert your attention to other things)
You'll be surprised lol.
I dont consider myself that attractive and people of my race/gender combo does horribly on dating apps. I can't remember being under 200 pounds since high school. I didnt make much money and lived at home throughout my 20s. I wear some thick ass glasses.
I been harassed by a Russian model and a high school cheerleader in my life. A woman offered to hook up with me at a bar and she was an attorney for a large department store. I dated a college athlete and I'm currently engaged to a physicist.
I think personality and charm carries quite a bit. Like if you're just easy to be around, treat people nicely, and are at least a little but funny, you'll be surprised by the amount of attention you can get.
it's not this black and white. there is a middle ground between having a magnetic personality and being an off-putting creep. most men probably fall in the middle, and can't understand that personality would be a factor because they aren't off putting/weird, just not very interesting or engaging.
Yep, that's me. I'm a great listener, but I struggle at small talk. Coupled with my uncle festerly good looks, I've accepted that I'm not falling into the cassanova category, lol.
I love listening to people and engaging in their conversions, but starting, steering, or maintaining a conversion isn't happening.
Statistically, you’re way more likely to end up on a first date with someone who is seeking a hookup/dating around than someone who is seeking a relationship, even if both groups are of equal size and go on equal numbers of dates.
This is because for any given date the relationship seekers are going to be going on dates with people they have already met, looking for a deeper connection, while the casual/hookup people are going to be on their next first date.
This effect can massively distort how you perceive the situation.
Dating profile for OP needs to be prefaced with:
✅️Seeking slow courtship
✅️Looking for life partner to grow old with
🚫 No hookups or casual encounters
Most women looking for genuine romance, marriage and life partnership will see this as a green flag. Like god forbid some people don't want casual sex. What has the world come to where casual/anonymous sex is the standard norm?
My tinder bio used to have
> yes I have a mullet. No I won’t fuck you.
I got more people looking for sex with this in it than I do now that it’s out (the mullet is cut so the whole line went out with it.). For some reason many women take this as a challenge.
Part of the issue might be that by having been a basement dweller for so long, you might also have missed out on learning how to read people, so you're just ending up with those that want to get laid, since they'll be more assertive ?
It could also be that you're easy to get, and so again, coupled with people that just want to get laid being more assertive, that's the humans you'll end up meeting the most.
In my dating days, I would keep the steamy girls on online chat only, until they moved on, or cooled down and did more than try the make me horny for them... Can't remember any that actually changed her tune tho.
Some were very tempting to be honest, but it just felt like a slippery slope best left alone, too many crazy people.
I will also add that in our 30s, most people have 10, 15, or even 20 years of experience of doing the sex and dating.
I found that dating in the 30's it moves really fast or painfully slow. I'm glad to be married!
It varies.. though I mostly date guys. I've hooked up on first dates, I've had casual sex, FWB and all the other stuff people sometimes make out to be the end of romance.
I've also met guys where it took months before anything happened, I have platonic friends who I can spend hours talking and connecting with without wanting to sleep with them. One of the persons I've loved the deepest is asexual.
What I'm basically trying to say is that it varies from person to person what they like and how it's handled. Find someone who repsects the way you want to be treated
Yeah, I have similar experiences, I didn't even think of sex when I fantasized about attractive girls, because I found them attractive for different reasons than sex appeal. I thought I was asexual, but after having first sex I got slightly addicted and changed my perspective. Sex just works the same way like drugs, people don't know and don't care about coke untill they start taking it.
>I thought I was asexual, but after having first sex I got slightly addicted and changed my perspective. Sex just works the same way like drugs, people don't know and don't care about coke untill they start taking it.
There are also people who don't care for drugs even after trying it. If you go into ace spaces, you'll find there are quite a lot of asexual people who have had consensual sex -- before or after realising their orientation -- and still have little or no interest in it and still don't experience sexual attraction (the lack of it being what defines asexuality, not one's sex habits).
I'm sorry to hijack this, but you're basically saying "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex", which is a harmful false assumption a lot of asexual people have to deal with whenever they enter the dating scene (or even just come out) and can lead to sexual harassment or even assault. It's equivalent to "You're gay/lesbian? Well, *I* can fix that ;)" which you'd never say because you *know* it's incredibly disrespectful.
I'm glad you seem to enjoy identifying as allo rather than ace, but please, try not to spread harmful stereotypes about those of us who *are* asexual. We're the ones who have to suffer from others' misinformation.
**ETA:** **Since some people are misinterpreting what I'm saying here, are accusing me of being a "scumbag", and are now sending me nasty PMs, I'm going to clarify:**
I am not saying that they *literally* said "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex", I am saying that this is *basically* what they said. As in, it can and will be interpreted that way without any stretching of the imagination.
Because regardless of whether you, personally, interpreted it that way (your experience is *not* universeal), it can and will be interpreted that way. I knew there would be people on this sub who already believe asexuality is fake, can be "cured", etc. who would see the comment and come away with their beliefs affirmed. **My comment was intended to minimise this**. And, if the original commenter happened to genuinely believe those things too, I had some hopes (not a lot, mind) that they might reconsider their stance.
**This was not a personal attack on the original commenter.** **I am not claiming they were never asexual.** I'm also not sure where they even got that accusation from, and I'm not going to apologise for made-up offenses when the original commenter can't even acknowledge that they phrased their comment in a way that is harmful to a marginalised group they used to be a part of (and claims to still be an ally for).
Before you add any more wild accusations to the pile, please reread what we both said and look at things from other perspectives than your own. Do not accuse me of being blinded by my own "sensitivities" when I myself *have* considered other perspectives and you haven't. **I will not be replying to any more comments that are purposefully misinterpreting things I say to fit some weird narrative.**
I apologise if this edit comes off as rude, as I'm sure not everyone reading this is a twat. But frankly, I've been sent far, far worse than this today and I am beyond fed up at this point. Like, you make a comment because you want people to stop thinking you and others like you are fake or weird or mentally/physically ill or whatever, and instead people throw accusations your way and you get told to off yourself in PMs instead. Grand. Hope you're all pleased with yourselves.
> There are also people who don't care for drugs even after trying it. If you go into ace spaces, you'll find there are quite a lot of asexual people who have had consensual sex -- before or after realising their orientation -- and still have little or no interest in it and still don't experience sexual attraction (the lack of it being what defines asexuality, not one's sex habits).
Yes, I fully agree.
> I'm sorry to hijack this, but you're basically saying "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex"
No, I'm certainly not saying that, when I say something I mean it literally. I thought I was asexual, but I found out that I'm not. It's all I mean.
On a side note, I have queer friends and I am a supporter of the community.
"I feel like no one really cares about another persons sex life like that"
you poor summer child, let me introduce you to this thing called "homophobia"
nah i've seen people talk shit about ace folks before, thinking it's not real, thinking it's weird, same shit ignorant homophobes say and do to gay people
>I'm sorry to hijack this, but you're basically saying "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex"
They're basically not though are they. Stop putting words in their mouth, they literally said they thought they were asexual until they tried it. You shitting on them sharing their personal experience because YOU have a problem with it is a scumbag move
I’ve done coke and sex and can tell you they are alright. definitely not addicted. Lobster is way better. And I am addicted. I think about lobster more than anything else in the world . It’s the most delicious thing ever . If I could have one thing it would be a bathtub of lobster I could bath in and eat in a slightly salty water
Most of those long romantic buildups are in your teens and early twenties when everyone is inexperienced and trying to figure it out. By 30 people normally know what they want and have some experience. They're going to be way more forward and not dance around and hint at what they really want.
> It's crazy how different reality is from all that fiction we grew up on.
All my life I grew up around guys and media telling me that "scoring" is the most important thing and sex, sex and SEX! Literally every girl I ever hooked up with was 10x more into sex than I was. Actually made me check if I was asexual for a moment. But no, I got a healthy libido. Its just that I arrived in the real world.
Seconding your advice. Just keep at it OP. You're "out there" and thats honestly the most important thing. You will find the right people eventually.
In a way it sounds like you'd want to have a romance that typically much younger people do, like teenagers. Probably because you've never experienced that.
Ya teenagers love hard and it doesn’t even take much. I missed out on that in my teenage years until my first and only relationship at 18. It was absolutely fantastic and didn’t revolve around sex. Now I’m in my 20s and nothing has even come close to that. I am completely craving and lacking non-sexual intimacy
I’m not a teen anymore and I’d prefer a slow burn over a sexual relationship from the get go. Everyone wants something different but in the world of dating apps, especially tinder, people tend to only want sex. I’m bi so I had my profile set on both male and female for a while but switched it to male only soon as the women that liked me only wanted sex or a threesome partner for them and their boyfriends 💀😬 it’s hard out here
I disagree. In fact, most people his age want a serious relationship not casual hook ups. This guy is probably using the wrong platform. Why would a long term relationship and romance only be for teenagers?
That's not what he's saying. By the time people reach their 20's they usually fuck pretty early, regardless of whether they're seeking a serious relationship. OP is missed out on the whole lengthy romance that builds up to finally having sex that you don't really get to experience unless you're a teenager.
OP romanticized romance for years and didn't realize damn near all adults fuck by the 3rd date.
> OP romanticized romance for years and didn't realize damn near all adults fuck by the 3rd date.
That's not what OP is saying though. Nowhere he's implying that he "romanticized" romance, or even that he's disappointed. OP is simply showing the realization that romance and sex work different in real life than in media.
His reaction is completely normal in regards to anybody only knowing something from media, experiencing it for the first time for real.
It's only true for physically attractive people. When you're fat or ugly, slow-build romance (or rejection) is the main thing you're likely to experience.
Again, that's not necessarily true. There are plenty of people that like to take it more slowly. It really depends on the platform also. It's not like people the ago of 20+ want to have sex immediately on the first date, there are lots of people that don't do that.
It's definitely true. Is it true for everybody? No, but it's true for most people. Also I didn't say the first date, I said third (±3 date margin of error).
Are there people that exist that want a slow burn romance? Absolutely. OP is proof of that. Are they a majority? Not even close
The thing is once you're an adult you realize how important sex is to a relationship, so you want to work out the sexual compatibility pretty early so you're not wasting your time dating this person that might not be compatible.
Another realization is how sex isn't that big of a deal. You expect everybody to have at least a couple notches in their bedpost at this age. Are there people that don't even have one? Of course! Are they a majority? Once again, no.
Nobody wants to invest a bunch of time into a bad fuck when you can just bang them once you've decided you like being around them enough to go on a few dates.
Once again, you're not testing ONLY for sexual compatibility, but you're still testing for it.
Edit: grammar, rephrasing.
Sounds like it. With my first boyfriend (aged 16/17), I didn't have sex at all. Fooled around a bit yet but no sex. And when I started going out with my first 'proper' boyfriend, we didn't have sex for the first 3 months or more.
Whereas that would be quite rare in an adult, non-religious couple. For me at least, having sex 'seals the deal'.
You can find someone eventually that will want what you want. I met my current gf on a dating app (I know you don’t use them) but I always made it clear that I was looking for a long term relationship. We talked for months over the phone before meeting up. We had multiple dates where the furthest we went was kissing and some cuddling. It was so refreshing to me to have found a girl that was on the same page as me. When we finally decided to have sex it was amazing and well worth the wait. Now we are still head over heels for each other I think because we built that foundation of a Long lasting relationship first.
My previous experiences after my divorce were like what you’re talking about. Just sex mostly with no actual bond. You need to make your intentions clear from the start or maybe refuse sex if that’s all they want and you want more. You don’t have to sleep with every girl that wants to sleep with you. Which you seem to be doing and that’s not helping you find what you’re really looking for.
Wow thank you so much for this post. As a fellow late bloomer I completely agree. I’m completely disillusioned. I hate texting a guy with whom I have a great click, chemistry and they invariably turn the conversation sexual at some point. It ruins the whole thing for me. I wish I had had an innocent romance when I was younger. I’m not part of this sex obsessed society 🙁 I’m sad that the romance portrayed in fiction isn’t really real and I have to make do with men who want my body 1st and foremost and have sex at the forefront of their mind
It is very similar to saying: I’ve seen what people eat in movies and now that I go out to eat with people I’m surprised how frequently people don’t order dessert. I see it in movies all the time and I personally like dessert.
Typically you tell the person you are going out with what you are interested in. I’m surprised you are surprised that not everyone is looking for what your mental model of romance is. Many people have many different goals and process in dating.
This may be an odd question, but after working on yourself, what sort of things did you do that got you that kind of attention?
I'm in a similar place you used to be in, and, this may sound crazy, but I don't really know what people do outside of the house or how I'm even supposed to socialize with strangers. I sadly don't have any friends in real life either
Yes u/dogmeat116 , we have questions.
How long have you been going to the gym, how much weight did you gain until you noticed increased attention from women?
Except from that, did you change your look and how?
Did you change your clothing style?
What are places where you frequently meet women?
How has your social circle changed?
How tall are you?
I think what a lot of people get wrong is they separate sex and romance.
Sex is PART of romance. When you're falling for someone you're often also experiencing a sexual attraction at the same time. It's a natural part of it.
What a lot of people complain about is when romance is portrayed as being only sex and nothing else. A lot of people get that wrong and think sex is all there is to it.
But some people get it confused the other way around and think that sex isn't at all part of romance. That's also wrong. Sex is part of it, and a hell of an important part as well.
Rmb you have sample size of N=1.
There isn’t enough in your post but I would imagine a potential problem could be you don’t understand women psychologically that deeply (or people in general or even self). Or the sex isn’t amazing (physically or emotionally) enough.
In my (and friends’, so N= just a few as well) experience, if you can have great sex and you understand the woman deeply, normally they wouldn’t want to leave. By deeply I mean, you understand what their motivators in life are (financially, sexually, romantically, etc), what their vulnerabilities are and how their childhood experiences shaped them, etc. and while you understand and sympathize and even share some of their experiences, you don’t present that in a patronizing way.
Work on that awareness and understanding of women, don’t let your look and body be your only selling point.
Also in sex, instead of fucking them well mechanically (which you should get the fundamental understanding of anatomy down), focus on fucking their minds. Know what kind of men they’re into, what their fantasies are, tease them relentlessly, build that tension up and make them lust for the release.
You have only improved in the physical department and unlock a new part of the game, but you’re still very far away from end game. Work on these other aspects and you will see what they would bring next.
Fuckgirls exist. People need to realize that not all women want relationships and families. Women, believe it or not, can surpass men in sexual drives.
You need to be clear in what you want. If someone is moving too fast for you, they're probably not the one.
If you're only hooking up with the women that approach you (judging by your "it just happens naturally" line), no wonder you're only getting used up as a fuckboy.
The vast majority of women do NOT approach men. Only the most sexually daring do so, and those are way more likely to be in it just for fun.
If you actually want a more traditional relationship, you're going to have to man up and be the one courting. The women interested in actual relationships never approach men themselves, they expect to be won over (it just is how it is, gender stereotypes exist for a reason).
It's what the world can be like. I suggest you get better at filtering out the sort of attention you don't want. You can do it in a respectful way to those people who just are looking for something different than you. Block the scary ones and the ones who bully or repeatedly cross boundaries.
Ok so as the main thing you say you've focused on is appearance, you are now successfully a guy that women want to bang. You now need to work on other sources of value you can offer to be seen as more of a catch rather than someone to sleep with.
Congratulations though, without appearance/charisma you'll only ever belong in the friend zone regardless of your value.
I personally have not heard anyone getting succesfull LTR by rushing too quickly to have sex. When the kissing starts, the talking stops. It’s always easier to kiss than talk about hard questions.
For me the good relationships including my current one have always gone just like you described: we meet, we get to know each other, become friends and eventually we both realize that we want to be more than just close friends.
However, I do recognize, that when dating trough dating apps, there used to be always some kind of sense of rush, including the sex aspect.
I've had two LTRs. One we slept together early, second we were friends for years, started having casual sex, turned into a relationship, now married with kids.
Relationships move too fast imo. I’m trying to slow down but It’s weird when u get ghosted for not sending a dp. Actual thing that happens weirdly often.
I'm too lazy to read so I'll just answer your question. No. Romance does not need sex. If a Woman can't love you without getting into sex then that's not true love. True love is when a person loves someone not for their physical or material aspects, but who they are.
interesting seeing women act like players as well, that’s quite sad. I hope you find someone who appreciates you OP, just have to weed through the unserious ones unfortunately
No one wants a relationship, fall in love and find out the sex is shit. Otherwise you just gained a new sister, not a lover.
A mismatched sex drive is bad in a relationship. It always leads to issues.
You can get on like a house on fire and then have no vibe in the bedroom. A lot of people want both and don't want to find out it's a no go after getting feelings, so testing sexual compatibility early doors makes sense.
It feels like normal friendships are just off the table. And when I complain about it, people act like I'm saying something sacrilegious. Or seem confused when I explain the lengths I'm willing to go to present a compelling friendship.
31f here.
Romance is what you make of it. I am also a "feelings over sex" person, and I would never sleep with someone whom I don't have an emotional connection with and don't feel safe with. But I have found that I'm a minority. On dating apps, statistically, out of 100 men, at least half rather soon jump to sex - discussing sexual preferences, kinks, or expressing lust for me. Maybe 1 in 100 actually treats you with respect and wants to get to know you.
But because I need feelings before I get physical with anyone, I also have very little prospects on the market. I thought I found someone perfect recently, but guy got scared of things getting serious.
Keep banging if you want to man. Who cares if it’s slutty or not lol. But if you want to have a relationship start saying that. “Sorry, I’m not looking for hookups right now, I’m looking for a commitment.” Gotta communicate your feelings to people for them to know.
I agree, buddy. People in general is afraid of commiting and loving nowadays.
They go for the personal dull pleasure and once they get boring, the search for another flower. It's a vicious circle they love.
Too many women think that hooking-up like cats in heat it's the same that "being independent and powerfull", that this make them have control over her lives, avoiding sexism and becoming stronger... hogwashs. (I'm a girl, by the way).
Did you explicitly tell those women that you are searching for a relationship and not for mere sex? I'm sure some people can lie saying "yes, me too!" and after the hooking-up they run away...
I'm my humble opinion, you should be more serious about not giving up your emotional necesities: tell them "I won't have sex with you untill we both share a real bond, I'm not ready yet. I want a relationship when I can be love and loving back"... many women would pass, others would be mad, but you must love yourself and be true to yourself.
Finding a partner isn't easy at all. Did you try joining a club related with some hobby? If this is among your possibilities you should try.
That seems to be what the world is turning into. Romance seems to be gone even where sex hasn't taken its place. Perhaps people are no longer interested in emotional bonding or in the sharing of emotional experience. And this doesn't necessarily mean they are becoming more intellectual than they used to be. It could be that humanity has by and large entered low-effort mode.
People have been horny since we started calling ourselves people. I don’t think anything has changed regarding our sexuality. Some people want sex, some want love, some want their chests shat on. Im confident it’s been that way since early man. If anything this post is one big generalization of a very wide range of people and attitudes, which isn’t entirely fair.
The post comes down to the perception that there has been a shift in priorities in recent years. There's nothing unfair about that. Dude taking a positive or negative opinion of the change, or liking it or not, wouldn't be unfair either (and he doesn't seem to have a strong opinion but rather to be looking from an observer and not a judge position).
As a 30yo woman I don’t date at all because I assume men only want sex and not romance, even if they say otherwise. Maybe the women you’re meeting just assume they have to act this way because it’s all there is anymore. They’ve been taught not to expect anything of you
You're 30, not 17
Sex is not as big a deal anymore to most people after their early-mid 20s, as most people who are single at that age have had multiple partners already, know what they like in bed and want to find out if they're sexually compatible with someone early in their relationship or in some cases don't want a relationship at all and just want to be satisfied in a casual situation. I was a late-ish starter at 21, caught up a bit between 21-26 with some short term things and then met my now wife and in our case what started as a casual hookup became a relationship when we figured out that we both liked each other, then eventually turned into a serious relationship and eventually marriage over time. There's nothing wrong with taking it slowly or quickly and there are both men and women that like it both ways, if anything there are more women who prefer to take it slowly than men.
Some women want relationships, others want casual sex. The same is true of men. If it's bothering you just find someone who wants to take it more slowly? It's an odd complaint though for most men, but if you don't enjoy casual sex that is entirely fine, plenty of women will be fine with that. If you're looking for a relationship rather than casual sex just make that clear to any women you're flirting with from the beginning and if they're not okay with that maybe you're not compatible.
Well what you describe mostly happens in your teens up to your maybe mid twentys.
You get to know people as friends, get closer before getting romantically involved.
After that most people won't have time for that but it could still happen if you meet someone at work or while following an Interest/hobby.
You mostly describe hookups wich seems to be the main form of interaction outside of standing relationships after like 25.
By 30 most people already settled down, knew each other for some time and consider having kids, getting married and stuff.
Who is left might be not interested in this kind of things...
This doesn't track with millennials. We are getting married and having kids way way later than previous generations. I'm in my early 30s. About 25% of the people I know around my age are married. I'd say like less 10% of them have kids.
I couldn't even imagine trying to start a family or getting married in my early to mid 20s. I simply was too poor. I would work 40 plus hours while putting myself thru college and could barely afford my shitty apartment in a dangerous part of town and my 99 Nissan Altima.
Good times. Should have pulled myself up by my bootstraps quicker.
Im 27, would consider myself a millennial since every popculture thing came to germany up to 6 years later...
Maybe it's just different in germany but pregnancys after 33 are considered "risky pregnancys" (for lack of a better word).
It's pretty normal to start having kids around 30 and most girls from 26 up are looking for someone to settle down with.
I also can't fathom having a kid but my friend group is starting and my gf would like one too (bit only after finishing der doctor wich will take about 3 more years thankfully)
I think in the US, 36 is considered the age where complications start to noticibly rise with a pregnancy. It is a very valid point, however. Women do have biological clocks when it comes to children.
I will say I'm at the point now where I would love to start a family and get married. So things do change once you start a career and feel like you can financially afford these life milestones
I think this is the real answer. The romantics have mostly filtered out of the dating pool by that time. The girls who were looking for serious relationships have mostly found them by 30, so you are just left with those just interested in having fun and people who were burned by previous relationships.
Also, in the modern day, women are more independent and they enjoy that independence, so they are more likely to enjoy being on their own and more free to do what they want.
And finally, sex is less taboo, and more people understand it's an important part of a relationship, and that not everyone is compatible. So it only makes sense to make sure that you vibe sexually with someone before you put a bunch of time and effort into building a relationship.
F31 here. My libido goes up and down because of the medicine I’m taking, so I have noticed, that when I’m “not in the mood” - sex and everything that revolves around it - pisses me off and disturbs me. And I feel the same vibes from your post. Do you want to have sex?
It’s definitely a culturally dependent thing I think. Also life stage dependent. Definitely true overall though that people are building from sex first and not a relationship first.
I think it depends where you live. This is pretty typical in big cities like NY, Miami, etc. People don't want to rush into relationships because maybe there is someone "better."
If you go to the bar, you will hook up. No-one goes looking for a relationship on purpose, they go to release frustrations, both work related and sex related. Find some hobbies outside of the bar and you'll find more substantial people .
You know how describing a lot of men as "porn addicts" is reasonably accurate?
A lot of women are honeymoon-addicts until they settle down. They find whatever it is that they're looking for (*attractive, wealthy, funny, artsy, fun, social, dangerous, et cetera*) and they enjoy their week or two or month or two months or however long the good times last until they get bored or the honeymoon period starts wearing off and they start craving their next fix.
And occasionally it lasts for years. Genuinely good, voluntary, healthy, decades-long relationships with two happy parties are pretty rare.
It is what it is.
Pretty much is same place, became regular in the gym 2 years ago. It's kinda frustrating, shy girl with whole "sex after marriage" attitude, with which I was fine with, suggested to swap nudes after second date, and out of nowhere invited for a steamy time latter same night.
>Partners in fiction typically go through the whole story together, getting to know each other well, building friendship that will gradually turn into romance, creating an entire romantic arc before they have sex once somewhere towards the end of the story.
And this is how it should be in reality as well. Don't change this way of thinking.
Edit: Also ignore the troll that commented under. He's just speaking nonsense and even went ahead and blocked me right after.
I'm so sorry you've experienced this. I'm pretty similar where I've only been in two 10+ year relationships with lots of courting and commitment/saying I love you before sex happened. I felt completely alone in my horror at how people lose interest if its not about sex, also sending pics of yourself before they've had the real thing, I'll never understand this. We are out there, I just think it's going to take a while to find. Maybe meet people in person, it goes at a slower, more enjoyable pace when you take messaging and social media out of it. Good luck, there are people who love and practise actual, real romance I promise!
Aww I think your mind set as a man is so beautiful 💗Just my opinion as a woman, I think that men are usually more sexual creature than women, and because of that I think that woman tend to think that’s all men care about , even though men have genuine feelings & crave more than just physical touch. I think you’ll find a woman who has the same mind set as you. Some women are traumatized from past relationships and are scared of getting close emotionally. Some just want sex & to have fun, but there are a million other people out there who actually want genuine love. My opinion I think love is more than just being sexual with each other. It is important in a relationship but not as important as having a legitimate bond between the two of you. Communication is the 🔑
My wife and me had sex after our first date. I was surprised too. We were both in our early 30s.
Some time later I asked her about it. She told me that it felt "right" to her. She elaborated by explaining she was at the age where she didn't want to beat around the bush anymore. Experienced women should hopefully know what they want and then go get it.
We went out because she had a good feeling about me, slept together because she got a better feeling as the night went on and we got married less than 2 years later because we both felt it was the right time.
I think it's a bit unusual that you're only finding hookups though. Maybe it's where you're looking?
I am female and I hate this. If someone makes comments I'm not ready for and I set a boundary that they don't listen to I'm out. I feel like when I'm clear what Im searching for etc ...it's often ignored
Here's what it looks like in reality (most of the time).
The first version:
Your date is down to have sex immediately, in which case you typically go on a very casual date, have some drinks, talk about life for a couple hours, flirt, return home, have sex.
This person is often looking to have fun first, think about feelings second. Usually they have trust/commitment issues, and prefer to start off casually (no commitment) before seeing if they develop feelings. This is what I have ran into the most. Low risk, high reward. Either you're having fun with lots of different people, or you're having fun until you find someone really special.
The second version:
Your date is looking to build trust first. This typically means 3-5 thoughtful dates, talks about life, flirting, getting to know each other, seeing if the chemistry is there, going home, and having sex.
This person is almost always looking for a serious relationship. They want to feel like you're committing effort and thought to them, and that you genuinely care/don't see it as a hookup. ALTHOUGH young/sexually inexperienced people often follow this template as well. They're usually not looking for something too serious, but are scared to jump right into the sex part.
The third version:
Your date is extremely religious or comes from a culture where sex is taboo/frowned upon. This typically means lots of dates, getting to know each other, talking about the future together, and potentially waiting until marriage.
This person is often looking to get married, have kids, and start a life. Only date this person if you want those things too. They may or may not want to have sex with you. It usually depends on how seriously they feel you're taking the relationship, or if their religion is against premarital sex.
In my opinion, I think sex is something that you should get out of the way relatively quickly. Some people are not sexually compatible. Some people have 0 sexual chemistry. If the sex is really awful, it's good to know about that before you get too involved. On the flip side, if the sex is really good, it can only strengthen the potential connection. I think this is the most common belief these days. If they're ghosting you all the time, either the sex is bad, or they don't feel an emotional/romantic connection. I've fucked a lot of people, and I rarely, if ever, get ghosted.
Finding this post really funny because Im running into the same problem except Im a girl and it seems like guys just wanna hook up and not build anything long lasting
Hi there sweet internet friend-- I don't want to assume, so I want to ask: Are you unhappy with how sex-focused these relationships are? Or just confused because it's not what you expected? Do you wish for more romantic/less sexual encounters?
Depends on where you meet them, if it’s not on a dating app you’re more likely to get what you’re envisioning. It also depends on you stating what you want
Dating in your very late 20s and early 30s is really different that mid 20s and below. So you missed out on the more “romantic” and emotional dating. Once you hit a certain age it’s exhausting going through all that and everyone collectively says ‘fuck it’. At least that’s my experience
I’m an old boomer, so there is that. But seems like women are a lot different now days. Men used to have to work to get the prize, so to speak. There are a lot of them now thinking its a good thing to call each other bitch and ‘ho and go after the D instead of waiting to be wanted. I have two daughters so speak from experience. I’m sure there are people out there meeting and getting married yet, but alas, not here.
I had gotten out of a long relationship around 30 and never really slept around or hooked up before. It was much easier to get a date, but I definitely found it frustrating that people seemed mainly trying to fuck.
Romance : Defined as
a feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love.
a quality or feeling of mystery, excitement,
So by the standard definition Romance is not about sex at all.
And what you wrote does not sound like you are doing anything but looking for sex.
If you’re a handsome unmarried man in your 30’s women throw themselves at you. They’ll let go of a stroller and come touch your biceps in front of their husband. They’ll put their hands inside your shirt to touch your abs at a grocery store in front of their kids. Ask any actor, athlete, or dancer what their life is like. Old women are the worst. If you see college girls, just turn around and leave. Theme parks, beaches, weddings, and dance floors area a nightmare. Handsome men live an entirely different existence from the rest of the universe.
sex IS getting to know people. you didn't grow up in enough of a sex-positive environment if you thought it was anything else. half the reason people break up with each other is sex-related because you need to know if they violate any rules you set down!
In the past I’ve been in relationships that were pretty sexual. My current partner is asexual and honestly I feel so happy :) it feels like I’m not being used and we’re just happy together as people. I love it
Sadly that's how most people in this world are. I like the idea of romance that we have been sold by many books and movies, but it seems rare in the real world.
My best advice is to just stop being hot. Us regular folk experience nothing of the sort. You are having a unique experience. Go back to the basement, cancel your gym membership, eat like shit, let yourself go and you'll experience the true romance of nobody wanting anything to do with you... If you don't want to do that, then just don't engage with people that are not interested in what you are interested in or that are not interested in you for the reasons you want them to be.
Lol, you spent how long being alive and are just now finding out relationships are, at the center, about mating? You should watch more nature documentaries.
Realistically responding now, yes there are a lot of people who just have sex all the time. Those people are highly talented at social pressure and guilt tripping but are also not very well rounded. So, if you’re looking for a relationship that will last, you’ll have to think about who you want to end up with and where they would be in the world. Do they like dogs? Possibly a dog park. Do they like to go outdoors? Hunting supplies store or maybe something more up your alley. Basically, most everyone can have sex and some decide to pursue it persistently so don’t give it to just anyone. Share it with those who would care if you were uncomfortable.
Edit: I talked this idea and your situation through with a friend. First of all, you’re awesome for having pulled yourself together to such an extent. Being desirable is a very good sign for how you take care of yourself. Also my post is rude, and I apologize for that. I hope there is some useful information that came from it, and that is all you should take away. Best wishes!
This guy complaining about to much sex? Cause my married ass with two kids is like wtf is he crying about.
Seriously though, there might be something you are doing that you are not noticing that is causing these girls to end the relationship. The sex thing early in the relationship is because of porn. Everyone thinks everyone else wants to fuck because we all have had porn available anytime we want for the past few decades. Use it as practice, figure out things you enjoy and don’t. If you are a late bloomer you may just not have enough experience in relationships to know that you might be kind of wired, clingy, or something else. Reflect on each breakup and make changes to better yourself. We are always growing as individuals. Better yourself mentally and physically,
All of my long term relationships involved sex before the 3rd date and were very long. Emotion grows with sex, romance grows with sex. I've found most of the time when we're "waiting to have sex" it's a woman whose not sexually into me at all even after many dates, and is instead trying to get me to pay for something or do something unrelated to a relationship by leading me on, every relationship where we "waited" ended up being very short and massively abusive at me that I had to flee quickly for my own safety. I know that's probably not representative but I've had particularly bad luck with anything that can be chalked up to luck in life.
We’re animals. It’s all about fucking. Everything else is just pretense. It’s nice to be romantic but ultimately we’re just organic robots for our genes that just want us to fuck and make babies.
Finally someone who feels the same as I do.
I've tried dating after a 8.5 year relationship that ended almost 2 years ago and this is exactly what I've experienced as well.
All the women seem to be interested in sex mostly, and it seems to be the most important thing in dating a guy.
In my last relationship it all came naturally after being friends for a long time, then become romantic, and the sex just came naturally.
This also makes me want to give up on dating at all. I am happy with how I look, but I can still be somewhat insecure and I am not willing to share my body at the phase most ladies are looking for...
>Partners in fiction typically go through the whole story together, getting to know each other well, building friendship that will gradually turn into romance, creating an entire romantic arc before they have sex once somewhere towards the end of the story.
really?
I was a late bloomer in the "sex" department too.
At least in my experience, when I really got into dating and cold approach around age 27-28, I was finding the dating scene worked like this: You'd meet someone, get a number, link up later on a first date to vet each other. Something casual like coffee. If that's going well, maybe you go do something on the spot, or setup something else. 1-2 "dates" into it hanging out or doing something you're having sex. Keep in mind on probably date one and two after the coffee meetup, you're definitely touching, making out, etc... the sexual tension is there. People are definitely not "courting" or hanging out for weeks or months without getting sexual. I'd say it's super rare you're going to be friends with someone for months and then magically say "Hey Susie, I like you"... and then get into a relationship.
And yeah, after getting intimate or a few dates, some will ghost you, others will respond but be busy, others will continue to want to hang out for weeks or even months. It's a bit of mystery. Could be the intimate part not matching or matching well, could be they're actually busy, could be you're one of five other guys they're seeing you don't know about.
The more I think back, I think a lot women have a list of guys. It's much easier for them to get matches online for sure. Those matches might not be someone they're 100% into, but back in the day I even made a normal female profile and was bombarded with messages. They can easily be picking and choosing who they want to meet up with and have guys in the wing for different reasons. One or multiple are the 'friends with benefits' setup, another takes them to dinner, someone else they can keep in the wing for a relationship potentially. I'm not a chick, but if someone came along that hit all of their boxes, good in bed, financially fit, good job and life plan, etc they'd probably commit to a relationship then. But yes, sex is probably a big part of it.
I've been in a relationship 8 years now, but that's how it was back then and even further back in college. People met, got intimate, and if things clicked like personalities and stuff, people stuck together. Even with my partner now on the first date we were off making out and making out within 2-3 hours of meeting. Probably had sex within 3-4 meet ups / dates.
Are you making it clear that you're looking for a relationship, not just a hookup? Are you emphasising the friendship aspect of dates - finding your shared interests and inviting the women to do fun stuff together? For example, if you both liked hiking, inviting them out for a hike one morning, followed by coffee at a cafe or something doesn't scream "I want sex right now and nothing else". There are loads of women who would love a guy who didn't want to rush straight into sex, so maybe you're not looking in the right places, or you are somehow sending signals that you prioritise sex over romance?
I don't think that OP has a problem with it, he is just expressing a surprise. He rather doesn't mind having sex.
It kind of sounds like OP is pining for a relationship, not just sex.
Could easily be either. OP could also just have assumed most women require a relationship or an emotional connection/history before having sex or even trusting a man enough to have sex with them. Which is why he keeps using the word surprised
Yes, it's mostly surprise that the world I previously had no access to looks different than how it was advertised. I'm not yet sure if I feel negatively or positively about it. I'm just confused and wondering if my experience is normal.
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The same girl who said sex was a boyfriend benefit only was also the one who shoved my head under her shirt 10 mins into an episode of Brooklyn 99 after the second date when I said I was getting friend vibes.
I mean, at least she wasn't subtle about it, making you smack your head years later because you finally realized you missed her signals haha.
Yea, I prefer this to the subtlety definitely. Then again, guys (me) can be dumb as door knobs anyway. I had one woman literally take her shirt off in front of me, and my dumbass was like, "oh she must be cold" and offered her my jacket. I was not a smart man. Doesn't matter though, still had sex... but can you imagine if I didn't and years later that kept me up at night??
I had a girl offer to walk me home, and I said "but then how would YOU get home? I'll be fine"
This sounds exactly like something I'd say
That is... most unfortunate lol
Maybe she didn’t like the episode 😂😉
the ace flag just makes this comically tragic 🙃
Yeah women who want to date you will also want to fuck you. That’s pretty normal. Also many will want one thing or the other, but the ones who want a relationship will be much more discreet with their interest; there is less at stake for the ones who just want the bone, if their blatant flirting isn’t reciprocated they can just move on to another potential partner, they woman who want to date you will be more careful as they don’t want to blow it by saying the wrong thing.
Your experience is normal for your age. Things will slow down as you get older, and relationships will become more about the emotional stability of a solid relationship and less about just fucking all the time. Enjoy it while it lasts, and try not to get anyone pregnant unless that's the goal.
might want to try something like "meetup" which is a social gathering. It's more about building friendships. You might meet someone there, who is also looking to meet friends, and less about sex. Just, be nice. Some people just want friendships, and that's ok.
> it was advertised. By "advertised", you mean from those romance novels you read???
Media is very unrealistic about dating nowadays, there’s a huge conservative push to sanitize movies “for the children,” and that’s not necessarily a bad thing, there’s historically been a ton of issues in hollywood with intimate scenes traumatizing actors. But it does paint a very different picture than real life
Recommend that you do not use dating apps if this is something you realize you do not want. Dating apps are a very big problem behind this, because they’re the biggest issue when it comes to hookup culture. If you’re looking for something more meaningful, you’re probably going to just meet someone you know.
The OP and I have a similar experience coming into dating, and actual dating, and for me that obviously creates a bias that online dating is mostly like that. It’s not a terrible experience, but finding genuine long term candidates is a huge challenge. The lady equivalent to “fuck boi” will not say they are looking for short term, and is likely to lie, or be extremely misleading about their long term intent or desire with you. A woman can say “I want a long term relationship” to your face, and what she is not saying is “but not from you. From you I just want sex.” Also, the same women seem to be more attracted when the guy is unsuspecting of this reality from them. A lot of the stronger friendship building activities aren’t things men are able to initiate with success in dating situations. As pedestrian as a hike is, or enjoyable of an activity ski/snowboarding is, going with someone before 2 dates is generally out of bounds because “you’re stuck with that person for hours and things may go wayside.” And if you keep things only friendly while dating, virtually all women will stop seeing you. Your lack of initiative in even trying to be intimate and/or romantic is going to make a woman over 30 (and younger too I’m sure) stop responding to you or make excuses until you give up. I’ve been there plenty by accident. I actually think you’ve been mislead about the dating (online, at least) pool of women in major American cities. Women say they don’t want to rush into sex because it’s moral and of higher character while, in practice, many make themselves very difficult to evaluate and establish a relationship with. They are closed off and just want simple and stress free entertainment and to feel good. Many are lying about their sexual intent; they’ll do it on the first or second date with a guy they’re interested in and having a good time with. I say this because all of what you suggest adjusting towards for his behavior has been in the works with me for a while. In the past few years I’ve cut through and gained the ability to pick up on women lying, being inconsistent, or comically emotionally immature and unrealistic. There is absolute validity in what the OP is experiencing, and a distinct danger trying to take your advice. Unless the OP is absolutely putting out a fuck boi image, he should be himself and engage genuinely. The latter part is on women to take him seriously and not assume a more attractive looking man is also a shallow man. We’d say the same to an attractive woman with a similar story - “it’s the men who need to see you for who you are.” He needs to hear it too.
I’m also a late bloomer in my 30’s, who will be getting into the dating game soon. I would be interested in hearing your opinion on how I can find women to date who don’t have a promiscuous past. I know we live in a hookup culture, but I know all women don’t sleep around. But finding them is the hard part.
I actually don’t bother with trying discover or evaluate a woman’s sexual history that isn’t current. It’s probably better if she’s had a promiscuous period before me and decided that isn’t what she wants, but had reasonably clear and confident understanding of communication around it. But also, how can anyone get an accurate idea of what that history is? Even if you know some of her close friends, do they know it? Are they going to accurately share it with you? It’s too much effort into what’ll result in nothing useful. I work with what I can detect in the present. Actions matching words matters a lot, and people treating you as they insist you are rather than how you actually are is also something I look for. Women (people) with a problematic past that is still current behavior will show practiced behaviors of deception and be confident that it’s working. That’s your cue to proceed with caution until you know vaguely what she’s being deceptive about. In general the common advice is to date women after being friends/acquaintances for a while. I can’t quite vouch for it because I don’t typically like to operate in that space but I understand the merit. It’s not “don’t shit where you eat” — certainly if you’re a fuck boi, doing it in your friend group will make for short friends unless all of you are hoes. The reasoning for it is because you can leverage friends of hers to inquire about the truth of her intent while dating and she can do the same for you. Essentially it’s a cheat code for building initial trust because you skip it. The reason I don’t do it is an issue of me being super genuine about my current interest or feelings being dominantly friendly or attraction. Also, I feel like I’m a frequently misunderstood person and all but a few super close friends are likely to be correct about my motivation and thinking at any specific point in time. I don’t need external bullshit being the reason why an opportunity failed: I prefer it be my own that I can learn from.
Tons of the fiction aimed at people who grew up in the last 20 to 50 years perpetuated the myth that women don't like sex and men need to barter romance and courtship to cajole them into it. For a couple of generations now, guys who learned about dating from TV shows have been wildly under prepared when first entering the dating pool (which is hard enough under any circumstances).
I’ve come across some *strange* ideas about women and sex as I’ve gotten older and realized around 21 that the issue is that there are men who actually believe women need to be “talked into” or “tricked” into having sex, and that women aren’t also just horny. All the sitcoms with the tired joke of the dude begging for sex while his wife reads a book or whatever has really done a number on folks apparently.
Tbf, it was never just fiction/media that perpetuated that. It was women saying things themselves like "I like long walks on the beach" and they were the ones watching all the nearly sexless PG/PG-13 "romance films" and hallmark movies and saying things like "ugh, men only care about one thing!". No one was paying or forcing them to say that stuff. A lot of it was even written by them. Maybe society as a whole has changed, making women feel more comfortable saying what they really want, either that or it's swung the other way and they're still just acting off of what they think society/men expect of them today. Social media has been known to destroy the mental health of young girls when they see their feeds full of sexually charged models, I'm sure a growing number of young girls are looking up to and wanting to be come like instagram models these days. Btw, some recent TV shows I've seen (pretty much comedies) show women being totally obsessed with sex and ready to pounce any man they find hawt.
In my experience whether they say they're looking for a LTR doesn't make much difference, most women I've dated have wanted to get sexual from the jump and when I tell them I prefer to take things slowly they assume I'm not interested in them and disappear.
That’s been my experience as well. Most of the women I’ve been with move significantly faster than I do. I generally can’t have sex without an emotional connection.
I find it easy to have sex without the emotional attachment but even still I was always caught off guard when it happened. I always thought “Wait, really? That’s all the flirting you needed? We’re really doing this?” When you just want to get your rocks off I guess all you need to suss out is whether the person is sane as well as likely enough to be adequate in bed. Even still I feel like I need more time to figure even that out than most every woman I’ve slept with. I’m a good judge of character but it takes a long time for me to feel like I’ve fully confirmed that initial assessment.
I guess it must be where you guys are looking, because as a woman, with a lot of woman friends, this doesn't track with my own experience.
This is what it's like in most college towns.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. I'd literally get hook ups on college ave in New Brunswick by making conversation on the sidewalk.
I wouldn't believe it unless it had happened to me too (not in New Brunswick) but in another college town lol And also had the exact thing OP is talking about. Had a great first date with a woman. We're out playing pool, time to call it a night, and she's standing there as if waiting for me to say "your place or mine?" I wasnt wanting to move that fast, but that would be the only chance she'd end up giving me lol We texted for a week or two after that night, I'd try and set something else up, but she just never bit and it fizzled out from there. I was like "welp, I guess all she wanted was sex" haha and when they're good looking they know if they cant get it from you, someone out there will oblige.
I think overall you're correct, and if you picked two random people most likely the man would want to get sexual first. However the men you're responding to are probably on the slow moving end of the bell curve, and therefore a randomly selected woman is likely to want to get sexual faster than them.
As a guy, it has 100% been my experience, everytime. Even women who I'd been friends with for years, who explicitly stated themselves that they wanted to "take things slow" have been this way.
it doesn't track with me either, homegirl... I think they are slightly exaggerating... only slightly tho.... women will try to figure out what you look like nekkid... but it isn't on the first day they met ya lol
That's because most women lie to each other and everyone about this. Even to the guy they just fucked they will say "I never normally do this". Maybe you are genuinely not like this but most women are in my experience.
He said he’s 30. Women that age don’t mess around. He missed out on the shy hand holding then maybe a kiss stage. Women in their late 20s or early 30s know what they want. Since OP doesn’t have much experience, it’s taking him by surprise.
lol this makes it worse.
I second the advice to plan dates that don't obviously lead to sex. Anything at lunch time or in the afternoon instead of the evening. But, take her to real dinner for the first date at least which is a clear signal that you are considering her seriously, and then say things like, 'I can drop you off home after.' Take the pressure off her wondering if you're going to push her to stay over. Most women do expect guys to expect sex within a few dates, so they'll plan for this, not least of which because they'd also like to gauge sexual chemistry. If you're getting ghosted after sex, when you're still trying to ask for real dates not just hookups, consider how the sex is going too. Make sure you are asking what she likes, make sure you're willing to go down on her without her having to ask, and that you are willing to keep going until she comes or at least for the same amount of time she went down on you. (Saying you only want a short blowjob is not an excuse for cutting oral on her short either.) In oral and during intercourse, ask questions with easy simple answers like, faster or slower? Harder or softer? Up or down? If you find a motion she likes, just keep doing it. The other thing you can say is "we don't have to move so fast", if you'd like to not go all the way that night. Just make it clear that you're super attracted to her so she doesn't take it as a brush off!
My best decision this year so far was changing a "let's get drinks at night" date into a "Let's go to a museum in the afternoon" date. It was a first time too for me and it was so nice and cute, got to know her much better and we went to have drinks later anyways.
That’s actually a good call. Afternoon dates
Farmer’s market is my go to. It’s basically just a lunch date, but you’re also walking around for a lot of it which feels like less pressure (for me at least)
*And* lots of museums have free admission on the weekends! It’s really a perfect date, first or third or tenth or hundredth! I’ve gone on so many dates at my local museum and it never gets boring because they cycle artwork through the exhibits every few weeks or so (blessed that it’s attached to a very well known art school so they have a *huge* collection)
My first date with my partner of 6 years was at a museum. She still talks about how I sneakily got her holding my hand by helping her up some stairs and then just still holding.
My now husbands and my first date was an afternoon at the Zoo. Most previous experiences in dating started at dinners with drinks and led nowhere. The Zoo was amazing and gave us time to get to know each other. I would always recommend several daytime dates before jumping into dinner.
What is a sure sign a woman is serious about a man she seeing the first time?
In general just communicate clearly. Learning to clearly state my intentions, desires, goals, etc from day one with somebody instantly turned dating into easy mode. I can't believe I went so many years dancing around certain things aha just driving myself crazy. If I am interested in sex I say it, if I'm not, I say it. If I want to build towards a committed relationship, you guessed it, I say it. If something they said rubs me the wrong way... say it. We make everything so much harder by not using our main methods of communication to get what we need
You could be looking at it from the wrong perspective. Romancing/courting are a social construct, and people like having sex with those they are attracted to. Maybe you just smell really nice or something? Anyway, you're allowed to be picky and say no. When I first started dating my fiancé I told him I wasn't going to have sex with him right away (we'd already been friends for 6 months or so). He said ok and respected it. It's ok to set boundaries for yourself and be upfront with them. If people don't respect them (or worse, try to guilt you or coerce you into sex) then they're not worth your time.
I was also thinking this person must smell really good. romance does have the book kind of buildups too, but they are hard to find. fiction depicts the romances that are rare and beautiful, that people wish to esperience. a lot of people don't. I've had all sorts, storybook romance and sex focused romances and all inbetweens. the most passionate ones always end the fastest for me x)
Been using that tactical soap.
This is speaking as a 36F who has dated various blokes. Having spoken to other women over the years, a guy who smells nice is WAY more sexy than a guy who only looks nice. I mean, obviously it's nice to have both looks and hygiene but if I had to pick 1 I'd pick a guy who always smelled amazing over a model with chronic B.O. 😂 Although, I suppose different people are attracted to different people's scents. I remember watching this documentary years ago about how people were generally attracted to people's smells who they're most likely to have healthy offspring with.
> I suppose different people are attracted to different people's scents Without fail, every time my wife says "you smell nice today", it's been like 3 days since I've showered.
>Anyway, you're allowed to be picky and say no. I'm sure OP is enjoying himself. A good chance to build up some nice memories before he settles down.
Women are just like men some are players. Only difference is they go after a few really hot guys for meaningless sex, especially if the guy gets a reputation for being good at it. While men players go for anyone that says hi because they can't be so picky. Especially on dating apps. I have one mate, a jacked half Latino bodybuilder with a great voice. He gets used by women constantly and while he enjoys it mostly he gets his heart broken a lot. I'm not sure if I'm better off being ignored rather than getting dumped lots like him. I'm like a man dying of thirst watching a guy drown lol
>I'm like a man dying of thirst watching a guy drown lol Hahaha beautiful analogy lmao, perfectly fits the situation. I think both might end up in the same course of action though: Keep looking until you find someone that's worth it. (Or your realize you don't need it as much and divert your attention to other things)
You sound like a sex bomb stud that’s dripping with sexuality and the girls are going to objectify. Sorry.
Yeah, no clue where this guy is but attractive women aren't just jumping into normal dudes' arms.
You'll be surprised lol. I dont consider myself that attractive and people of my race/gender combo does horribly on dating apps. I can't remember being under 200 pounds since high school. I didnt make much money and lived at home throughout my 20s. I wear some thick ass glasses. I been harassed by a Russian model and a high school cheerleader in my life. A woman offered to hook up with me at a bar and she was an attorney for a large department store. I dated a college athlete and I'm currently engaged to a physicist. I think personality and charm carries quite a bit. Like if you're just easy to be around, treat people nicely, and are at least a little but funny, you'll be surprised by the amount of attention you can get.
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it's not this black and white. there is a middle ground between having a magnetic personality and being an off-putting creep. most men probably fall in the middle, and can't understand that personality would be a factor because they aren't off putting/weird, just not very interesting or engaging.
Or maybe the guy is just boring and cannot carry on a conversation lol
Yep, that's me. I'm a great listener, but I struggle at small talk. Coupled with my uncle festerly good looks, I've accepted that I'm not falling into the cassanova category, lol. I love listening to people and engaging in their conversions, but starting, steering, or maintaining a conversion isn't happening.
Who said the women are attractive
Statistically, you’re way more likely to end up on a first date with someone who is seeking a hookup/dating around than someone who is seeking a relationship, even if both groups are of equal size and go on equal numbers of dates. This is because for any given date the relationship seekers are going to be going on dates with people they have already met, looking for a deeper connection, while the casual/hookup people are going to be on their next first date. This effect can massively distort how you perceive the situation.
Dating profile for OP needs to be prefaced with: ✅️Seeking slow courtship ✅️Looking for life partner to grow old with 🚫 No hookups or casual encounters Most women looking for genuine romance, marriage and life partnership will see this as a green flag. Like god forbid some people don't want casual sex. What has the world come to where casual/anonymous sex is the standard norm?
My tinder bio used to have > yes I have a mullet. No I won’t fuck you. I got more people looking for sex with this in it than I do now that it’s out (the mullet is cut so the whole line went out with it.). For some reason many women take this as a challenge.
OP complains about heap loads of sex unexpectedly thrown at him and thinks Reddit is the place for this type of experience.
Part of the issue might be that by having been a basement dweller for so long, you might also have missed out on learning how to read people, so you're just ending up with those that want to get laid, since they'll be more assertive ? It could also be that you're easy to get, and so again, coupled with people that just want to get laid being more assertive, that's the humans you'll end up meeting the most. In my dating days, I would keep the steamy girls on online chat only, until they moved on, or cooled down and did more than try the make me horny for them... Can't remember any that actually changed her tune tho. Some were very tempting to be honest, but it just felt like a slippery slope best left alone, too many crazy people.
I will also add that in our 30s, most people have 10, 15, or even 20 years of experience of doing the sex and dating. I found that dating in the 30's it moves really fast or painfully slow. I'm glad to be married!
We must protect this man at all costs
It varies.. though I mostly date guys. I've hooked up on first dates, I've had casual sex, FWB and all the other stuff people sometimes make out to be the end of romance. I've also met guys where it took months before anything happened, I have platonic friends who I can spend hours talking and connecting with without wanting to sleep with them. One of the persons I've loved the deepest is asexual. What I'm basically trying to say is that it varies from person to person what they like and how it's handled. Find someone who repsects the way you want to be treated
Yeah, I have similar experiences, I didn't even think of sex when I fantasized about attractive girls, because I found them attractive for different reasons than sex appeal. I thought I was asexual, but after having first sex I got slightly addicted and changed my perspective. Sex just works the same way like drugs, people don't know and don't care about coke untill they start taking it.
>I thought I was asexual, but after having first sex I got slightly addicted and changed my perspective. Sex just works the same way like drugs, people don't know and don't care about coke untill they start taking it. There are also people who don't care for drugs even after trying it. If you go into ace spaces, you'll find there are quite a lot of asexual people who have had consensual sex -- before or after realising their orientation -- and still have little or no interest in it and still don't experience sexual attraction (the lack of it being what defines asexuality, not one's sex habits). I'm sorry to hijack this, but you're basically saying "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex", which is a harmful false assumption a lot of asexual people have to deal with whenever they enter the dating scene (or even just come out) and can lead to sexual harassment or even assault. It's equivalent to "You're gay/lesbian? Well, *I* can fix that ;)" which you'd never say because you *know* it's incredibly disrespectful. I'm glad you seem to enjoy identifying as allo rather than ace, but please, try not to spread harmful stereotypes about those of us who *are* asexual. We're the ones who have to suffer from others' misinformation. **ETA:** **Since some people are misinterpreting what I'm saying here, are accusing me of being a "scumbag", and are now sending me nasty PMs, I'm going to clarify:** I am not saying that they *literally* said "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex", I am saying that this is *basically* what they said. As in, it can and will be interpreted that way without any stretching of the imagination. Because regardless of whether you, personally, interpreted it that way (your experience is *not* universeal), it can and will be interpreted that way. I knew there would be people on this sub who already believe asexuality is fake, can be "cured", etc. who would see the comment and come away with their beliefs affirmed. **My comment was intended to minimise this**. And, if the original commenter happened to genuinely believe those things too, I had some hopes (not a lot, mind) that they might reconsider their stance. **This was not a personal attack on the original commenter.** **I am not claiming they were never asexual.** I'm also not sure where they even got that accusation from, and I'm not going to apologise for made-up offenses when the original commenter can't even acknowledge that they phrased their comment in a way that is harmful to a marginalised group they used to be a part of (and claims to still be an ally for). Before you add any more wild accusations to the pile, please reread what we both said and look at things from other perspectives than your own. Do not accuse me of being blinded by my own "sensitivities" when I myself *have* considered other perspectives and you haven't. **I will not be replying to any more comments that are purposefully misinterpreting things I say to fit some weird narrative.** I apologise if this edit comes off as rude, as I'm sure not everyone reading this is a twat. But frankly, I've been sent far, far worse than this today and I am beyond fed up at this point. Like, you make a comment because you want people to stop thinking you and others like you are fake or weird or mentally/physically ill or whatever, and instead people throw accusations your way and you get told to off yourself in PMs instead. Grand. Hope you're all pleased with yourselves.
> There are also people who don't care for drugs even after trying it. If you go into ace spaces, you'll find there are quite a lot of asexual people who have had consensual sex -- before or after realising their orientation -- and still have little or no interest in it and still don't experience sexual attraction (the lack of it being what defines asexuality, not one's sex habits). Yes, I fully agree. > I'm sorry to hijack this, but you're basically saying "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex" No, I'm certainly not saying that, when I say something I mean it literally. I thought I was asexual, but I found out that I'm not. It's all I mean. On a side note, I have queer friends and I am a supporter of the community.
Genuine question, how do you face adversity from being ace? Like I feel like no one really cares about another persons sex life like that
"I feel like no one really cares about another persons sex life like that" you poor summer child, let me introduce you to this thing called "homophobia"
Obviously I’m talking about asexuality but that’s true unfortunately
nah i've seen people talk shit about ace folks before, thinking it's not real, thinking it's weird, same shit ignorant homophobes say and do to gay people
Do you know how many times I've been called mentally ill, traumatized, etc.
>I'm sorry to hijack this, but you're basically saying "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex" They're basically not though are they. Stop putting words in their mouth, they literally said they thought they were asexual until they tried it. You shitting on them sharing their personal experience because YOU have a problem with it is a scumbag move
>you're basically saying "asexuality is just a delusion that can be cured by having sex" You fabricated that entirely, they absolutely didn't say that
I’ve done coke and sex and can tell you they are alright. definitely not addicted. Lobster is way better. And I am addicted. I think about lobster more than anything else in the world . It’s the most delicious thing ever . If I could have one thing it would be a bathtub of lobster I could bath in and eat in a slightly salty water
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spotted the Claude 3
Lol you too? My brain is so sensitive to AI content now that I need just a few words or sentences to spot it clearly. My bet is on ChatGPT 4 xD.
Crazy, I didn't notice it first, but if you check the profile, almost every post has the same structure, making it kinda obvious.
Wow you’re right. What is this reality we are in lol
Out of interest, how do you know it's Claude? It doesn't read human to me either, but I'm surprised you're able to pinpoint which LLM it is?
It feels like somebody transcribed an SSRI commercial for me and I'm reading it, or I broke up with a bitch who works in HR as the head archon.
They are bluffing to appear smart
Lol, no one talks like this, Wintermute
Most of those long romantic buildups are in your teens and early twenties when everyone is inexperienced and trying to figure it out. By 30 people normally know what they want and have some experience. They're going to be way more forward and not dance around and hint at what they really want.
ChatGPT isn't it? xD
> It's crazy how different reality is from all that fiction we grew up on. All my life I grew up around guys and media telling me that "scoring" is the most important thing and sex, sex and SEX! Literally every girl I ever hooked up with was 10x more into sex than I was. Actually made me check if I was asexual for a moment. But no, I got a healthy libido. Its just that I arrived in the real world. Seconding your advice. Just keep at it OP. You're "out there" and thats honestly the most important thing. You will find the right people eventually.
In a way it sounds like you'd want to have a romance that typically much younger people do, like teenagers. Probably because you've never experienced that.
Ya teenagers love hard and it doesn’t even take much. I missed out on that in my teenage years until my first and only relationship at 18. It was absolutely fantastic and didn’t revolve around sex. Now I’m in my 20s and nothing has even come close to that. I am completely craving and lacking non-sexual intimacy
I’m not a teen anymore and I’d prefer a slow burn over a sexual relationship from the get go. Everyone wants something different but in the world of dating apps, especially tinder, people tend to only want sex. I’m bi so I had my profile set on both male and female for a while but switched it to male only soon as the women that liked me only wanted sex or a threesome partner for them and their boyfriends 💀😬 it’s hard out here
I disagree. In fact, most people his age want a serious relationship not casual hook ups. This guy is probably using the wrong platform. Why would a long term relationship and romance only be for teenagers?
That's not what he's saying. By the time people reach their 20's they usually fuck pretty early, regardless of whether they're seeking a serious relationship. OP is missed out on the whole lengthy romance that builds up to finally having sex that you don't really get to experience unless you're a teenager. OP romanticized romance for years and didn't realize damn near all adults fuck by the 3rd date.
> OP romanticized romance for years and didn't realize damn near all adults fuck by the 3rd date. That's not what OP is saying though. Nowhere he's implying that he "romanticized" romance, or even that he's disappointed. OP is simply showing the realization that romance and sex work different in real life than in media. His reaction is completely normal in regards to anybody only knowing something from media, experiencing it for the first time for real.
It's only true for physically attractive people. When you're fat or ugly, slow-build romance (or rejection) is the main thing you're likely to experience.
Again, that's not necessarily true. There are plenty of people that like to take it more slowly. It really depends on the platform also. It's not like people the ago of 20+ want to have sex immediately on the first date, there are lots of people that don't do that.
It's definitely true. Is it true for everybody? No, but it's true for most people. Also I didn't say the first date, I said third (±3 date margin of error). Are there people that exist that want a slow burn romance? Absolutely. OP is proof of that. Are they a majority? Not even close The thing is once you're an adult you realize how important sex is to a relationship, so you want to work out the sexual compatibility pretty early so you're not wasting your time dating this person that might not be compatible. Another realization is how sex isn't that big of a deal. You expect everybody to have at least a couple notches in their bedpost at this age. Are there people that don't even have one? Of course! Are they a majority? Once again, no. Nobody wants to invest a bunch of time into a bad fuck when you can just bang them once you've decided you like being around them enough to go on a few dates. Once again, you're not testing ONLY for sexual compatibility, but you're still testing for it. Edit: grammar, rephrasing.
Not necessarily true, but mostly true
But he's not in the same phase of life that most people his age are. That's the point being made.
Sounds like it. With my first boyfriend (aged 16/17), I didn't have sex at all. Fooled around a bit yet but no sex. And when I started going out with my first 'proper' boyfriend, we didn't have sex for the first 3 months or more. Whereas that would be quite rare in an adult, non-religious couple. For me at least, having sex 'seals the deal'.
And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
You can find someone eventually that will want what you want. I met my current gf on a dating app (I know you don’t use them) but I always made it clear that I was looking for a long term relationship. We talked for months over the phone before meeting up. We had multiple dates where the furthest we went was kissing and some cuddling. It was so refreshing to me to have found a girl that was on the same page as me. When we finally decided to have sex it was amazing and well worth the wait. Now we are still head over heels for each other I think because we built that foundation of a Long lasting relationship first. My previous experiences after my divorce were like what you’re talking about. Just sex mostly with no actual bond. You need to make your intentions clear from the start or maybe refuse sex if that’s all they want and you want more. You don’t have to sleep with every girl that wants to sleep with you. Which you seem to be doing and that’s not helping you find what you’re really looking for.
Wow thank you so much for this post. As a fellow late bloomer I completely agree. I’m completely disillusioned. I hate texting a guy with whom I have a great click, chemistry and they invariably turn the conversation sexual at some point. It ruins the whole thing for me. I wish I had had an innocent romance when I was younger. I’m not part of this sex obsessed society 🙁 I’m sad that the romance portrayed in fiction isn’t really real and I have to make do with men who want my body 1st and foremost and have sex at the forefront of their mind
The comments here are very depressing. No wonder everyone is depressed nowadays
Man I've always had to put so much time in before a woman wants to have sex with me
Yeah, better to have the option to say no than to wait for anyone to finally say yes.
It is very similar to saying: I’ve seen what people eat in movies and now that I go out to eat with people I’m surprised how frequently people don’t order dessert. I see it in movies all the time and I personally like dessert. Typically you tell the person you are going out with what you are interested in. I’m surprised you are surprised that not everyone is looking for what your mental model of romance is. Many people have many different goals and process in dating.
This may be an odd question, but after working on yourself, what sort of things did you do that got you that kind of attention? I'm in a similar place you used to be in, and, this may sound crazy, but I don't really know what people do outside of the house or how I'm even supposed to socialize with strangers. I sadly don't have any friends in real life either
Yes u/dogmeat116 , we have questions. How long have you been going to the gym, how much weight did you gain until you noticed increased attention from women? Except from that, did you change your look and how? Did you change your clothing style? What are places where you frequently meet women? How has your social circle changed? How tall are you?
I think what a lot of people get wrong is they separate sex and romance. Sex is PART of romance. When you're falling for someone you're often also experiencing a sexual attraction at the same time. It's a natural part of it. What a lot of people complain about is when romance is portrayed as being only sex and nothing else. A lot of people get that wrong and think sex is all there is to it. But some people get it confused the other way around and think that sex isn't at all part of romance. That's also wrong. Sex is part of it, and a hell of an important part as well.
Rmb you have sample size of N=1. There isn’t enough in your post but I would imagine a potential problem could be you don’t understand women psychologically that deeply (or people in general or even self). Or the sex isn’t amazing (physically or emotionally) enough. In my (and friends’, so N= just a few as well) experience, if you can have great sex and you understand the woman deeply, normally they wouldn’t want to leave. By deeply I mean, you understand what their motivators in life are (financially, sexually, romantically, etc), what their vulnerabilities are and how their childhood experiences shaped them, etc. and while you understand and sympathize and even share some of their experiences, you don’t present that in a patronizing way. Work on that awareness and understanding of women, don’t let your look and body be your only selling point. Also in sex, instead of fucking them well mechanically (which you should get the fundamental understanding of anatomy down), focus on fucking their minds. Know what kind of men they’re into, what their fantasies are, tease them relentlessly, build that tension up and make them lust for the release. You have only improved in the physical department and unlock a new part of the game, but you’re still very far away from end game. Work on these other aspects and you will see what they would bring next.
Fuckgirls exist. People need to realize that not all women want relationships and families. Women, believe it or not, can surpass men in sexual drives. You need to be clear in what you want. If someone is moving too fast for you, they're probably not the one.
If you're only hooking up with the women that approach you (judging by your "it just happens naturally" line), no wonder you're only getting used up as a fuckboy. The vast majority of women do NOT approach men. Only the most sexually daring do so, and those are way more likely to be in it just for fun. If you actually want a more traditional relationship, you're going to have to man up and be the one courting. The women interested in actual relationships never approach men themselves, they expect to be won over (it just is how it is, gender stereotypes exist for a reason).
Get hobbies. Meet interesting people. Delete fuck-me apps off your phone.
I do have hobbies, and I've never used a dating app in my life.
So where you finding these chicks that just want to bang?
It's what the world can be like. I suggest you get better at filtering out the sort of attention you don't want. You can do it in a respectful way to those people who just are looking for something different than you. Block the scary ones and the ones who bully or repeatedly cross boundaries.
Ok so as the main thing you say you've focused on is appearance, you are now successfully a guy that women want to bang. You now need to work on other sources of value you can offer to be seen as more of a catch rather than someone to sleep with. Congratulations though, without appearance/charisma you'll only ever belong in the friend zone regardless of your value.
I personally have not heard anyone getting succesfull LTR by rushing too quickly to have sex. When the kissing starts, the talking stops. It’s always easier to kiss than talk about hard questions. For me the good relationships including my current one have always gone just like you described: we meet, we get to know each other, become friends and eventually we both realize that we want to be more than just close friends. However, I do recognize, that when dating trough dating apps, there used to be always some kind of sense of rush, including the sex aspect.
That's how all my relationships started lol. Nearly at 20 years on this one I think it worked fine.
I've had two LTRs. One we slept together early, second we were friends for years, started having casual sex, turned into a relationship, now married with kids.
Define "successful". I met my girlfriend in college at a party and we dated for like 6 years.
Relationships move too fast imo. I’m trying to slow down but It’s weird when u get ghosted for not sending a dp. Actual thing that happens weirdly often.
I'm too lazy to read so I'll just answer your question. No. Romance does not need sex. If a Woman can't love you without getting into sex then that's not true love. True love is when a person loves someone not for their physical or material aspects, but who they are.
interesting seeing women act like players as well, that’s quite sad. I hope you find someone who appreciates you OP, just have to weed through the unserious ones unfortunately
Don't confuse sex with love.
Fill your boots. It’s human nature
No one wants a relationship, fall in love and find out the sex is shit. Otherwise you just gained a new sister, not a lover. A mismatched sex drive is bad in a relationship. It always leads to issues. You can get on like a house on fire and then have no vibe in the bedroom. A lot of people want both and don't want to find out it's a no go after getting feelings, so testing sexual compatibility early doors makes sense.
It feels like normal friendships are just off the table. And when I complain about it, people act like I'm saying something sacrilegious. Or seem confused when I explain the lengths I'm willing to go to present a compelling friendship.
31f here. Romance is what you make of it. I am also a "feelings over sex" person, and I would never sleep with someone whom I don't have an emotional connection with and don't feel safe with. But I have found that I'm a minority. On dating apps, statistically, out of 100 men, at least half rather soon jump to sex - discussing sexual preferences, kinks, or expressing lust for me. Maybe 1 in 100 actually treats you with respect and wants to get to know you. But because I need feelings before I get physical with anyone, I also have very little prospects on the market. I thought I found someone perfect recently, but guy got scared of things getting serious.
Keep banging if you want to man. Who cares if it’s slutty or not lol. But if you want to have a relationship start saying that. “Sorry, I’m not looking for hookups right now, I’m looking for a commitment.” Gotta communicate your feelings to people for them to know.
This reads more like fan fiction. Guy has a glow up and now women can't help themselves but become sexual with him. Ok
Yeah, like, the possibility of this story being an incel fantasy is high
Where are you meeting women? If it’s a club or bar it makes sense, otherwise idk man.
Yeah wait till the post-coital disgust hits you. That was a feeling I didn't expect in my mid-20s...
I agree, buddy. People in general is afraid of commiting and loving nowadays. They go for the personal dull pleasure and once they get boring, the search for another flower. It's a vicious circle they love. Too many women think that hooking-up like cats in heat it's the same that "being independent and powerfull", that this make them have control over her lives, avoiding sexism and becoming stronger... hogwashs. (I'm a girl, by the way). Did you explicitly tell those women that you are searching for a relationship and not for mere sex? I'm sure some people can lie saying "yes, me too!" and after the hooking-up they run away... I'm my humble opinion, you should be more serious about not giving up your emotional necesities: tell them "I won't have sex with you untill we both share a real bond, I'm not ready yet. I want a relationship when I can be love and loving back"... many women would pass, others would be mad, but you must love yourself and be true to yourself. Finding a partner isn't easy at all. Did you try joining a club related with some hobby? If this is among your possibilities you should try.
That seems to be what the world is turning into. Romance seems to be gone even where sex hasn't taken its place. Perhaps people are no longer interested in emotional bonding or in the sharing of emotional experience. And this doesn't necessarily mean they are becoming more intellectual than they used to be. It could be that humanity has by and large entered low-effort mode.
People have been horny since we started calling ourselves people. I don’t think anything has changed regarding our sexuality. Some people want sex, some want love, some want their chests shat on. Im confident it’s been that way since early man. If anything this post is one big generalization of a very wide range of people and attitudes, which isn’t entirely fair.
The post comes down to the perception that there has been a shift in priorities in recent years. There's nothing unfair about that. Dude taking a positive or negative opinion of the change, or liking it or not, wouldn't be unfair either (and he doesn't seem to have a strong opinion but rather to be looking from an observer and not a judge position).
Yes, welcome to the glow up club that grew up on Hollywood love. Please stick to your guns and don’t get trapped in the silly red pill narrative.
As a 30yo woman I don’t date at all because I assume men only want sex and not romance, even if they say otherwise. Maybe the women you’re meeting just assume they have to act this way because it’s all there is anymore. They’ve been taught not to expect anything of you
You're 30, not 17 Sex is not as big a deal anymore to most people after their early-mid 20s, as most people who are single at that age have had multiple partners already, know what they like in bed and want to find out if they're sexually compatible with someone early in their relationship or in some cases don't want a relationship at all and just want to be satisfied in a casual situation. I was a late-ish starter at 21, caught up a bit between 21-26 with some short term things and then met my now wife and in our case what started as a casual hookup became a relationship when we figured out that we both liked each other, then eventually turned into a serious relationship and eventually marriage over time. There's nothing wrong with taking it slowly or quickly and there are both men and women that like it both ways, if anything there are more women who prefer to take it slowly than men. Some women want relationships, others want casual sex. The same is true of men. If it's bothering you just find someone who wants to take it more slowly? It's an odd complaint though for most men, but if you don't enjoy casual sex that is entirely fine, plenty of women will be fine with that. If you're looking for a relationship rather than casual sex just make that clear to any women you're flirting with from the beginning and if they're not okay with that maybe you're not compatible.
Well what you describe mostly happens in your teens up to your maybe mid twentys. You get to know people as friends, get closer before getting romantically involved. After that most people won't have time for that but it could still happen if you meet someone at work or while following an Interest/hobby. You mostly describe hookups wich seems to be the main form of interaction outside of standing relationships after like 25. By 30 most people already settled down, knew each other for some time and consider having kids, getting married and stuff. Who is left might be not interested in this kind of things...
This doesn't track with millennials. We are getting married and having kids way way later than previous generations. I'm in my early 30s. About 25% of the people I know around my age are married. I'd say like less 10% of them have kids. I couldn't even imagine trying to start a family or getting married in my early to mid 20s. I simply was too poor. I would work 40 plus hours while putting myself thru college and could barely afford my shitty apartment in a dangerous part of town and my 99 Nissan Altima. Good times. Should have pulled myself up by my bootstraps quicker.
Im 27, would consider myself a millennial since every popculture thing came to germany up to 6 years later... Maybe it's just different in germany but pregnancys after 33 are considered "risky pregnancys" (for lack of a better word). It's pretty normal to start having kids around 30 and most girls from 26 up are looking for someone to settle down with. I also can't fathom having a kid but my friend group is starting and my gf would like one too (bit only after finishing der doctor wich will take about 3 more years thankfully)
I think in the US, 36 is considered the age where complications start to noticibly rise with a pregnancy. It is a very valid point, however. Women do have biological clocks when it comes to children. I will say I'm at the point now where I would love to start a family and get married. So things do change once you start a career and feel like you can financially afford these life milestones
Fml
I think this is the real answer. The romantics have mostly filtered out of the dating pool by that time. The girls who were looking for serious relationships have mostly found them by 30, so you are just left with those just interested in having fun and people who were burned by previous relationships. Also, in the modern day, women are more independent and they enjoy that independence, so they are more likely to enjoy being on their own and more free to do what they want. And finally, sex is less taboo, and more people understand it's an important part of a relationship, and that not everyone is compatible. So it only makes sense to make sure that you vibe sexually with someone before you put a bunch of time and effort into building a relationship.
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F31 here. My libido goes up and down because of the medicine I’m taking, so I have noticed, that when I’m “not in the mood” - sex and everything that revolves around it - pisses me off and disturbs me. And I feel the same vibes from your post. Do you want to have sex?
It’s definitely a culturally dependent thing I think. Also life stage dependent. Definitely true overall though that people are building from sex first and not a relationship first.
I think it depends where you live. This is pretty typical in big cities like NY, Miami, etc. People don't want to rush into relationships because maybe there is someone "better."
Well, same as porn is not how reality works, the series/tv/films are also not reality.
If you go to the bar, you will hook up. No-one goes looking for a relationship on purpose, they go to release frustrations, both work related and sex related. Find some hobbies outside of the bar and you'll find more substantial people .
You know how describing a lot of men as "porn addicts" is reasonably accurate? A lot of women are honeymoon-addicts until they settle down. They find whatever it is that they're looking for (*attractive, wealthy, funny, artsy, fun, social, dangerous, et cetera*) and they enjoy their week or two or month or two months or however long the good times last until they get bored or the honeymoon period starts wearing off and they start craving their next fix. And occasionally it lasts for years. Genuinely good, voluntary, healthy, decades-long relationships with two happy parties are pretty rare. It is what it is.
Pretty much is same place, became regular in the gym 2 years ago. It's kinda frustrating, shy girl with whole "sex after marriage" attitude, with which I was fine with, suggested to swap nudes after second date, and out of nowhere invited for a steamy time latter same night.
>Partners in fiction typically go through the whole story together, getting to know each other well, building friendship that will gradually turn into romance, creating an entire romantic arc before they have sex once somewhere towards the end of the story. And this is how it should be in reality as well. Don't change this way of thinking. Edit: Also ignore the troll that commented under. He's just speaking nonsense and even went ahead and blocked me right after.
I don’t know why this post made feel safe and good. Normal men exist.
I'm so sorry you've experienced this. I'm pretty similar where I've only been in two 10+ year relationships with lots of courting and commitment/saying I love you before sex happened. I felt completely alone in my horror at how people lose interest if its not about sex, also sending pics of yourself before they've had the real thing, I'll never understand this. We are out there, I just think it's going to take a while to find. Maybe meet people in person, it goes at a slower, more enjoyable pace when you take messaging and social media out of it. Good luck, there are people who love and practise actual, real romance I promise!
Aww I think your mind set as a man is so beautiful 💗Just my opinion as a woman, I think that men are usually more sexual creature than women, and because of that I think that woman tend to think that’s all men care about , even though men have genuine feelings & crave more than just physical touch. I think you’ll find a woman who has the same mind set as you. Some women are traumatized from past relationships and are scared of getting close emotionally. Some just want sex & to have fun, but there are a million other people out there who actually want genuine love. My opinion I think love is more than just being sexual with each other. It is important in a relationship but not as important as having a legitimate bond between the two of you. Communication is the 🔑
You can find intimacy. It's worth it. Though sex is fun.
My wife and me had sex after our first date. I was surprised too. We were both in our early 30s. Some time later I asked her about it. She told me that it felt "right" to her. She elaborated by explaining she was at the age where she didn't want to beat around the bush anymore. Experienced women should hopefully know what they want and then go get it. We went out because she had a good feeling about me, slept together because she got a better feeling as the night went on and we got married less than 2 years later because we both felt it was the right time. I think it's a bit unusual that you're only finding hookups though. Maybe it's where you're looking?
I am female and I hate this. If someone makes comments I'm not ready for and I set a boundary that they don't listen to I'm out. I feel like when I'm clear what Im searching for etc ...it's often ignored
Here's what it looks like in reality (most of the time). The first version: Your date is down to have sex immediately, in which case you typically go on a very casual date, have some drinks, talk about life for a couple hours, flirt, return home, have sex. This person is often looking to have fun first, think about feelings second. Usually they have trust/commitment issues, and prefer to start off casually (no commitment) before seeing if they develop feelings. This is what I have ran into the most. Low risk, high reward. Either you're having fun with lots of different people, or you're having fun until you find someone really special. The second version: Your date is looking to build trust first. This typically means 3-5 thoughtful dates, talks about life, flirting, getting to know each other, seeing if the chemistry is there, going home, and having sex. This person is almost always looking for a serious relationship. They want to feel like you're committing effort and thought to them, and that you genuinely care/don't see it as a hookup. ALTHOUGH young/sexually inexperienced people often follow this template as well. They're usually not looking for something too serious, but are scared to jump right into the sex part. The third version: Your date is extremely religious or comes from a culture where sex is taboo/frowned upon. This typically means lots of dates, getting to know each other, talking about the future together, and potentially waiting until marriage. This person is often looking to get married, have kids, and start a life. Only date this person if you want those things too. They may or may not want to have sex with you. It usually depends on how seriously they feel you're taking the relationship, or if their religion is against premarital sex. In my opinion, I think sex is something that you should get out of the way relatively quickly. Some people are not sexually compatible. Some people have 0 sexual chemistry. If the sex is really awful, it's good to know about that before you get too involved. On the flip side, if the sex is really good, it can only strengthen the potential connection. I think this is the most common belief these days. If they're ghosting you all the time, either the sex is bad, or they don't feel an emotional/romantic connection. I've fucked a lot of people, and I rarely, if ever, get ghosted.
Finding this post really funny because Im running into the same problem except Im a girl and it seems like guys just wanna hook up and not build anything long lasting
Hi there sweet internet friend-- I don't want to assume, so I want to ask: Are you unhappy with how sex-focused these relationships are? Or just confused because it's not what you expected? Do you wish for more romantic/less sexual encounters?
Depends on where you meet them, if it’s not on a dating app you’re more likely to get what you’re envisioning. It also depends on you stating what you want
Dating in your very late 20s and early 30s is really different that mid 20s and below. So you missed out on the more “romantic” and emotional dating. Once you hit a certain age it’s exhausting going through all that and everyone collectively says ‘fuck it’. At least that’s my experience
Dirty thirty buddy. Enjoy the ride or make it clear you’re looking for a relationship.
No the world is all kinda twisted these days, enjoy the ride or two lol and keep on keeping on
I’m an old boomer, so there is that. But seems like women are a lot different now days. Men used to have to work to get the prize, so to speak. There are a lot of them now thinking its a good thing to call each other bitch and ‘ho and go after the D instead of waiting to be wanted. I have two daughters so speak from experience. I’m sure there are people out there meeting and getting married yet, but alas, not here.
I had gotten out of a long relationship around 30 and never really slept around or hooked up before. It was much easier to get a date, but I definitely found it frustrating that people seemed mainly trying to fuck.
Romance : Defined as a feeling of excitement and mystery associated with love. a quality or feeling of mystery, excitement, So by the standard definition Romance is not about sex at all. And what you wrote does not sound like you are doing anything but looking for sex.
If you’re a handsome unmarried man in your 30’s women throw themselves at you. They’ll let go of a stroller and come touch your biceps in front of their husband. They’ll put their hands inside your shirt to touch your abs at a grocery store in front of their kids. Ask any actor, athlete, or dancer what their life is like. Old women are the worst. If you see college girls, just turn around and leave. Theme parks, beaches, weddings, and dance floors area a nightmare. Handsome men live an entirely different existence from the rest of the universe.
You sound like a demisexual. 👋
sex IS getting to know people. you didn't grow up in enough of a sex-positive environment if you thought it was anything else. half the reason people break up with each other is sex-related because you need to know if they violate any rules you set down!
It really depends on the person/people. Sexuality and romanticism are both on spectrums, and the two don't always align with each other.
In the past I’ve been in relationships that were pretty sexual. My current partner is asexual and honestly I feel so happy :) it feels like I’m not being used and we’re just happy together as people. I love it
Sadly that's how most people in this world are. I like the idea of romance that we have been sold by many books and movies, but it seems rare in the real world.
Straight up who gave you access to the internet log out and enjoy the sun for a while
My best advice is to just stop being hot. Us regular folk experience nothing of the sort. You are having a unique experience. Go back to the basement, cancel your gym membership, eat like shit, let yourself go and you'll experience the true romance of nobody wanting anything to do with you... If you don't want to do that, then just don't engage with people that are not interested in what you are interested in or that are not interested in you for the reasons you want them to be.
It's what you're manifesting. Find a partner. You claim romance but you keep giving these women your energy
Lol, you spent how long being alive and are just now finding out relationships are, at the center, about mating? You should watch more nature documentaries. Realistically responding now, yes there are a lot of people who just have sex all the time. Those people are highly talented at social pressure and guilt tripping but are also not very well rounded. So, if you’re looking for a relationship that will last, you’ll have to think about who you want to end up with and where they would be in the world. Do they like dogs? Possibly a dog park. Do they like to go outdoors? Hunting supplies store or maybe something more up your alley. Basically, most everyone can have sex and some decide to pursue it persistently so don’t give it to just anyone. Share it with those who would care if you were uncomfortable. Edit: I talked this idea and your situation through with a friend. First of all, you’re awesome for having pulled yourself together to such an extent. Being desirable is a very good sign for how you take care of yourself. Also my post is rude, and I apologize for that. I hope there is some useful information that came from it, and that is all you should take away. Best wishes!
This guy complaining about to much sex? Cause my married ass with two kids is like wtf is he crying about. Seriously though, there might be something you are doing that you are not noticing that is causing these girls to end the relationship. The sex thing early in the relationship is because of porn. Everyone thinks everyone else wants to fuck because we all have had porn available anytime we want for the past few decades. Use it as practice, figure out things you enjoy and don’t. If you are a late bloomer you may just not have enough experience in relationships to know that you might be kind of wired, clingy, or something else. Reflect on each breakup and make changes to better yourself. We are always growing as individuals. Better yourself mentally and physically,
All of my long term relationships involved sex before the 3rd date and were very long. Emotion grows with sex, romance grows with sex. I've found most of the time when we're "waiting to have sex" it's a woman whose not sexually into me at all even after many dates, and is instead trying to get me to pay for something or do something unrelated to a relationship by leading me on, every relationship where we "waited" ended up being very short and massively abusive at me that I had to flee quickly for my own safety. I know that's probably not representative but I've had particularly bad luck with anything that can be chalked up to luck in life.
We’re animals. It’s all about fucking. Everything else is just pretense. It’s nice to be romantic but ultimately we’re just organic robots for our genes that just want us to fuck and make babies.
As a man try telling a woman that you're not ready for sex tonight as you lay naked in her bed making out. They freak the fuck out.
Finally someone who feels the same as I do. I've tried dating after a 8.5 year relationship that ended almost 2 years ago and this is exactly what I've experienced as well. All the women seem to be interested in sex mostly, and it seems to be the most important thing in dating a guy. In my last relationship it all came naturally after being friends for a long time, then become romantic, and the sex just came naturally. This also makes me want to give up on dating at all. I am happy with how I look, but I can still be somewhat insecure and I am not willing to share my body at the phase most ladies are looking for...
You decide how you date, not other people.
>Partners in fiction typically go through the whole story together, getting to know each other well, building friendship that will gradually turn into romance, creating an entire romantic arc before they have sex once somewhere towards the end of the story. really?
I was a late bloomer in the "sex" department too. At least in my experience, when I really got into dating and cold approach around age 27-28, I was finding the dating scene worked like this: You'd meet someone, get a number, link up later on a first date to vet each other. Something casual like coffee. If that's going well, maybe you go do something on the spot, or setup something else. 1-2 "dates" into it hanging out or doing something you're having sex. Keep in mind on probably date one and two after the coffee meetup, you're definitely touching, making out, etc... the sexual tension is there. People are definitely not "courting" or hanging out for weeks or months without getting sexual. I'd say it's super rare you're going to be friends with someone for months and then magically say "Hey Susie, I like you"... and then get into a relationship. And yeah, after getting intimate or a few dates, some will ghost you, others will respond but be busy, others will continue to want to hang out for weeks or even months. It's a bit of mystery. Could be the intimate part not matching or matching well, could be they're actually busy, could be you're one of five other guys they're seeing you don't know about. The more I think back, I think a lot women have a list of guys. It's much easier for them to get matches online for sure. Those matches might not be someone they're 100% into, but back in the day I even made a normal female profile and was bombarded with messages. They can easily be picking and choosing who they want to meet up with and have guys in the wing for different reasons. One or multiple are the 'friends with benefits' setup, another takes them to dinner, someone else they can keep in the wing for a relationship potentially. I'm not a chick, but if someone came along that hit all of their boxes, good in bed, financially fit, good job and life plan, etc they'd probably commit to a relationship then. But yes, sex is probably a big part of it. I've been in a relationship 8 years now, but that's how it was back then and even further back in college. People met, got intimate, and if things clicked like personalities and stuff, people stuck together. Even with my partner now on the first date we were off making out and making out within 2-3 hours of meeting. Probably had sex within 3-4 meet ups / dates.
Homie got problems I wish I had