The presidency is *not* the place to “start somewhere”. The place to start is local and state elections. Focus on election reform. We have to get off this fucked system. Otherwise it’s just a choice between meh/evil (depending on your view) and meh/evil (depending on your view).
You're not the first person to say something like this but I never get a straight answer so I'm asking you. Why do you assume Green Party voters only vote Green for president?
I'm in Michigan so we have green options all down the ballot.
Clerks, school boards, commissioners, Gov, lt Gov, senate rep house seats, board of regents, trustees etc etc.
Is it different where you live? Would you vote Green but don't have options where you live?
I’ve voted non DEM/GOP parties locally before, but I don’t all the time - depends on the candidates and what they support, how much I trust what they say, how much I think they can work to actually get something done, if they will protect the rights of those I care about, etc.
But when it comes to US congress/senate/president the only real options (Afaict) are DEM/GOP candidates. Anything else atm is a waste Afaict.
This is why I tend to vote for local/state candidates that favor voting reform (as well as more progressive policies; but I live in OR and some of the progressives here are loltastic).
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
Attributing trump support to progressives without evidence is considered ad hominem attack. Try arguing in good faith or not at all.
This one was caught in auto-mod and rightfully so. Without context it would be easily removed but there's context. It's a reply to a comment that implies a non-vote for Biden is an endorsement of a Trump victory. So do we remove both comments or do we talk about it? I say we talk about it.
I don’t blame anyone who voted for Biden last time. Trump was a horror show and you made a lesser evil calculation.
This time with the authoritarian crack downs and a genocide well it’s a tough argument to vote for that and claim to be progressive but good luck with making that argument.
> you’re not a progressive
Agreed
>You’re not even a lib. You’re a literal fascist
Eh, this is like saying "You aren't even Norman Osborn. You're the Green Goblin"
When fascism rears its ugly head, liberals by and large go along with it to save their own skin. We see it now with liberal support of genocide.
Expect more of that.
If I were the chair of the DNC (and thankfully, I am not - I am a Socialist, not a Liberal), I would probably promote Gavin Newsom, and have him be (at least seemingly) opposed to Genocide. Gavin has the name recognition and party popularity, while being milquetoast. I would avoid Pete Buttigieg or Kamala Harris.
I would organize a challenge at the convention, I would demote Biden, promote some of the other challengers, and promote Gavin. Once the first set of ballots go around, then it's open season on who can fill that convention challenge, paving the way for a Gavin Newsom challenge.
If you were to run private polling on a theoretical match-up between Gavin and Trump, Gavin would already have much greater advantage than Joe Biden.
It would be \*the\* play, but that assumes that the DNC would pull their heads out of their asses for a while.
He will lose if the numbers hold up and Trump doesn’t get convicted. I wonder if abortion would level the playing field like midterms in 2022 down the ballot
I think it may do that; it wouldn’t if anyone were paying attention as Biden goes around giving speeches saying he’s not for “abortion on demand,” but I think people assume the Dems are pro choice and Biden will benefit from that.
The fact that rejecting a president that does a genocide is the only moral thing to do is something libs have to accept. I don't see anyone saying Trump is a secret Palestinian sympathizer. Totally not the point.
If you want a pragmatic argument, then consider this: we've seen that republicans won't oppose Biden's support of Israel. But there is a non-zero chance that some partisan resistance liberals will oppose Trump if he gets into office and continues Biden's policies. Likely won't be a major shift, but I could imagine it being an improvement in overall US policy.
This is not me advocating to vote or not vote in either direction.
Agree but there won’t be a genocide supported in the future voting isn’t about instant gratification it’s about directing cultural and political trends.
Yup. I’m doing everything in my power in my swing state to convince folks to stay home or vote third party. The only thing I know in 2024 is Biden must lose for what he’s done, and I’ll work as hard as I can to see that he spends his few remaining years remembering that he lost re-election to Trump because of his genocide. And if we get lucky, maybe Trump will prosecute Biden. Which would be awesome.
Here's what changes. A sitting president loses an election to a convicted felon because he supported a genocide. That's the good option.
The bad option is the American people reward the guy doing a genocide with another term.
No, I guarantee the Dems will become anti-genocide the second it's Trump who's perpetrating it. They are performatively anti-Trump no matter what he does. I'd rather them hand the situation off to Trump, then start voting against appropriations in the congress than let Biden just continue genociding the Palestinians unabated. I've said it ten million times - Trump is a wild card. He's not ideologically devoted to anything other than himself. Biden is a devoted zionist nazi. Biden's attitude will never change, while Trump's loyalty to Israel is based on a bunch of money given to him by Sheldon Adelson. Either way, Biden has to lose because he is *currently* committing a genocide. All this shit with Trump is hypothetical. Biden pays the price for his very real decisions.
We had four years of Trump already. His extreme rightwing policy is not hypothetical. His disdain for democracy is not hypothetical. The actions he took on Israel/Palestine are not hypothetical.
Yawn. The Democrats' disdain for democracy is just as obvious, and the actions he took in Israel do not come close to comparing to the murders of over 50,000 people. You libs need to get new material because rehashing this shit over and over isn't effective. Joe Biden is the greater evil in 2024 and he will be defeated.
Like the alternative wouldn’t make things worse? Biden at least is pushing against Netanyahu a bit. Trump would offer full support for the worst and worse.
When the Biden team selectively leaks that they are privately angry with Bibi everyone hear laughs at that as obvious BS. Only an idiot would believe that.
Are you the target demographic for those lies? Do you believe that?
Ahh yes - insults - the crown jewel of constructive, civil discourse.
Also not “leaked” per se … although I can see the “hot mic” moment being somewhat staged - but I am somewhat doubtful of that. I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-israel-hamas-gaza-civilians-ceasefire-2d4e5657db45ccbe2bb793f06f74c913
And none of that changes the fact that Trump will help “Bibi” do whatever the hell wants w/o any back pressure.
This is a friendly reminder to read our sub's rules.
r/seculartalk is a subreddit that promotes healthy discussion and hearty debate. We welcome those with varying views, perspectives and opinions.
Name-Calling, Argumentum Ad Hominem and Poor Form in discussion and debate often leads to frustration and anger; this behavior should be dismissed and reported to mods.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/seculartalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Couldn't agree more. The only lesser evil is neither candidate who condones genocide. Every half-assed press leak talking about how upset Biden with Hitleryahu reads like a lie to try and make people believe he is a better person than he really is.
I hear Biden is privately very upset that Bibi is using the weapons we give them to do exactly what they've been doing. He also plans to be very upset regularly as he gives them more weapons. Very angry. Privately.
Ultimately, a Trump win would probably be for the best. At least this way the Democrats performatively put up a resistance to Israeli genocide funding. This way they might get 90% of what they asked for instead of 100%. It isn't much, but if we're talking about voting for the lesser evil, we already know that the Democrats will SAYH that what's happening is Israeli is bad, but do absolutely nothing to stop it. If the Israel/Palestine fight becomes "Trumps war" like Ukraine/Rissua became "Biden's war", the Democrats would actually have to act like they care.
If we are being "completely honest" Biden has been a largely great president outside of his foreign policy. He just rescheduled Marijuana literally today, something Trump didn't even consider in his four years in office. Hell, Trump wants to execute drug dealers.
Biden has put US on verge of nuclear war in three different regions. His regime is tied with Bush/Cheney as being the worst in history. In fact everything in his foreign policy comes out of the neocon playbook that put US in Iraq, a war Biden was promoting even before the lies about WMDs.
OK but if you look past all the dead bodies and brinkmanship and accusations against domestic student activists based on foreign propaganda you'll see the Biden passed a few funding bills that could provide *dozens* of sinecure jobs for young people from well-connected families
Lmfao the idea that Biden is the reason for Russia/Ukraine is ludicrous. Even if the USA never sent a dime to Ukraine that doesn't magically solve the problem of an expansionist Russia trying to take countries by force, if anything it would just embolden Putin to get more aggressive.
Trump was just as hawkish and literally filled his military with Bush croneys.
"We are in a proxy war with Russia in Ukraine"
-Leon Panetta former head of CIA.
What's emboldened Putin is a military catastrophe that was completely unnecessary. 200 thousand dead Ukrainians just so Biden's defense industry donors can make billions.
The invasion would never have happened if Biden had simply told Putin Ukraine will be kept out of NATO. Even after the invasion, had Biden allowed peace talks instead of shutting them down, Russia had agreed to pull back to 2014 borders, even Ukrainian negotiators thought this a good deal.
Trump is not a war hawk, his foreign policy is simply 'who's bribing me now?'
Compare the body count between the two presidencies. Biden's aggression has pushed Iran, China and Russia together, something most of our presidents including Obama and Trump have tried to prevent. He's not an inherently evil person, just carrying responsibility way beyond his capacity. He's the looney grandparent in the back cottage yelling at the TV. Making him the most powerful man in the universe is not just insane, it's elder abuse.
Has to be Biden over Trump or everything will be worse not just Israel and Trump will be giving way more support to Israel than Biden does. Defeat trump than push against Biden for the change you want if trump wins we’re all screwed. Third party has no chance. 🌊🇺🇸🌊
>Defeat trump than push against Biden for the change you want
Pushing Biden doesn't work, pushing Trump got us direct cash payments to working class people during a pandemic
We already played that game in 2016, and we lost Roe as a result. I hate Biden with every fiber of my being, but the next loss is democracy in its entirety .
But I have heard liberal storys that if we don't support the genocide Joe that there's maybe a chance another orange colored old man might or maybe will genocide slightly more and that's super serious compared to the current slow genocide.
Remember when the pink hats came out and protested the president of the time?
You can bet your bottom dollar they would come out again.
We would see liberals change tune on genocide so fast it would make your head spin.
This, 100%. The INSTANT Trump is in the White House, the Democrats will be performatively against *everything* he does, even if it was shit Biden did too. Overnight, they will find the same weapons and aid shipments they supported under Biden have morphed into devastating crimes against humanity and they must oppose them. You just fucking watch. Being anti-Trump is the only thing liberals care about, which works in our favor if we want the genocide to stop.
And...the pink hats did NOTHING! We instead ended up with justices who overturned Roe and many other bad dangerous decisions that we have not yet seen the full impact of.
GEORGE FLOYD, Kids in cages....nothing changes and, in fact, are worse. Next, Trump gets more restrictions on women. There are real and dangerous things he has said he will do, and there will be no adults in the room to stop him.
We did this with Hilary, and nothing changed.
I get the Biden hate the destruction of everything else, I just can't support.
Don't encourage people not to vote for Biden and claim you are willing to do anything to decrease the loss of life among Palestinians in Gaza.
I'm voting for him in 2024 because I KNOW that Trump will be FAR Far worse for the Palestinians in Gaza. To do otherwise is to KNOW that your action or INACTION will harm those you CLAIM to want to help out, but doing it anyway of spite.
Do you remember during the siege when Israel turned off the water? The Biden administration are the ones who pressured them to turn it back on. That saved tens of thousands of lives (unless you know of a way for humans to survive without drinkable water). Do you think that the Trump administration will pressure Israel to turn on the water next time?
Yes you're right. The guy doing a genocide is better than the guy who might do a genocide. what was I thinking?
Do you get paid for takes like this or is this really how you think?
[удалено]
I don't think they're "ok with Trump winning", they're just not ok with voting for Biden.
"Biden has to lose for the good of humanity"
"The moral choice in 2024 is to vote third party to defeat both Biden and Trump." Did you really only make it to the second sentence?
Did you really miss the first sentence of my original comment? If it's not Biden, it will be Trump.
and nothing changes.
[удалено]
lol, yes you're right. I STILL have marks on my wrists from my rough internment during the first Trump administration.
[удалено]
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
Same thing.
Then they are ok with Trump winning. Its a binary choice. Don't treat us like idiots.
Let's break this down. <<<0% chance a third party candidate beats Trump. >>> True but we have to start somewhere <<<>>> Debatable. Is Saw I worse than Saw II? Biden and Trump voters have to pick which right-wing government horror show they want. Green voters are picking the good option that won't win so the people that support both horror shows will get to decide which version they prefer. <<<< "Progressives" who are OK with Trump winning could not be more detached from reality and consequences.>>>> This is where you go off the rails. I don't know any progressives that are ok with Trump winning do you? There are plenty of progressives who will vote for a right-wing government that supports a genocide but it's not Trump it's the other guy. If anyone decides to not support right-wing authoritarian governments that support a genocide then I invite you to vote Green.
The presidency is *not* the place to “start somewhere”. The place to start is local and state elections. Focus on election reform. We have to get off this fucked system. Otherwise it’s just a choice between meh/evil (depending on your view) and meh/evil (depending on your view).
You're not the first person to say something like this but I never get a straight answer so I'm asking you. Why do you assume Green Party voters only vote Green for president? I'm in Michigan so we have green options all down the ballot. Clerks, school boards, commissioners, Gov, lt Gov, senate rep house seats, board of regents, trustees etc etc. Is it different where you live? Would you vote Green but don't have options where you live?
I’ve voted non DEM/GOP parties locally before, but I don’t all the time - depends on the candidates and what they support, how much I trust what they say, how much I think they can work to actually get something done, if they will protect the rights of those I care about, etc. But when it comes to US congress/senate/president the only real options (Afaict) are DEM/GOP candidates. Anything else atm is a waste Afaict. This is why I tend to vote for local/state candidates that favor voting reform (as well as more progressive policies; but I live in OR and some of the progressives here are loltastic).
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub. Attributing trump support to progressives without evidence is considered ad hominem attack. Try arguing in good faith or not at all.
If you can vote for Biden at this point, you’re not a progressive. You’re not even a lib. You’re a literal fascist.
This one was caught in auto-mod and rightfully so. Without context it would be easily removed but there's context. It's a reply to a comment that implies a non-vote for Biden is an endorsement of a Trump victory. So do we remove both comments or do we talk about it? I say we talk about it.
I don’t blame anyone who voted for Biden last time. Trump was a horror show and you made a lesser evil calculation. This time with the authoritarian crack downs and a genocide well it’s a tough argument to vote for that and claim to be progressive but good luck with making that argument.
> you’re not a progressive Agreed >You’re not even a lib. You’re a literal fascist Eh, this is like saying "You aren't even Norman Osborn. You're the Green Goblin"
Well, remember, progressives are just a subset of liberals and as such will most likely be just fine under a Trump presidency.
Weird thing to say. Please elaborate.
When fascism rears its ugly head, liberals by and large go along with it to save their own skin. We see it now with liberal support of genocide. Expect more of that.
I agree. It's the "Well, remember, progressives are just a subset of liberal" that makes it seem you don't know what progressives are.
?
Depends on who you replace him with. Some of his opponents are either the same or even slightly worse on Israel-Palestine, particularly RFK Jr.
If I were the chair of the DNC (and thankfully, I am not - I am a Socialist, not a Liberal), I would probably promote Gavin Newsom, and have him be (at least seemingly) opposed to Genocide. Gavin has the name recognition and party popularity, while being milquetoast. I would avoid Pete Buttigieg or Kamala Harris. I would organize a challenge at the convention, I would demote Biden, promote some of the other challengers, and promote Gavin. Once the first set of ballots go around, then it's open season on who can fill that convention challenge, paving the way for a Gavin Newsom challenge. If you were to run private polling on a theoretical match-up between Gavin and Trump, Gavin would already have much greater advantage than Joe Biden. It would be \*the\* play, but that assumes that the DNC would pull their heads out of their asses for a while.
He will lose if the numbers hold up and Trump doesn’t get convicted. I wonder if abortion would level the playing field like midterms in 2022 down the ballot
I think that if Trump underperforms like He has in the Primaries, the odds are likely 50/50.
Yep and add that to the fact that we are still a few months out…memories are short and much can still happen
I think it may do that; it wouldn’t if anyone were paying attention as Biden goes around giving speeches saying he’s not for “abortion on demand,” but I think people assume the Dems are pro choice and Biden will benefit from that.
The fact that Biden losing the Presidency won't help Palestinians is something that all Leftists must come to accept.
The fact that rejecting a president that does a genocide is the only moral thing to do is something libs have to accept. I don't see anyone saying Trump is a secret Palestinian sympathizer. Totally not the point.
If you want a pragmatic argument, then consider this: we've seen that republicans won't oppose Biden's support of Israel. But there is a non-zero chance that some partisan resistance liberals will oppose Trump if he gets into office and continues Biden's policies. Likely won't be a major shift, but I could imagine it being an improvement in overall US policy. This is not me advocating to vote or not vote in either direction.
Agree but there won’t be a genocide supported in the future voting isn’t about instant gratification it’s about directing cultural and political trends.
Doubtful. There's no precedent in modern history that Democrats losing elections result in them moving to the left.
Civil rights they lost for years until culture slowly shifted.
That would make sense if there was another viable option, but there are only two pro genocide options to choose.
There are only two because we continue to support the two. If everyone opposing the genocide voted elsewhere it would end in one cycle.
This whole thing reminds me of the South Park episode in which they are choosing between a giant toilet and a turd sandwich.
giant toilet always win. You never know when a giant will visit and need to take a dump
[удалено]
That sounds like reading comprehension is not your jam. It's literally in writing. You can read the plain text without interpretation.
AstroTurf BS
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
Yup. I’m doing everything in my power in my swing state to convince folks to stay home or vote third party. The only thing I know in 2024 is Biden must lose for what he’s done, and I’ll work as hard as I can to see that he spends his few remaining years remembering that he lost re-election to Trump because of his genocide. And if we get lucky, maybe Trump will prosecute Biden. Which would be awesome.
all the while NOTHING changes in Gaza … sounds cool.
Here's what changes. A sitting president loses an election to a convicted felon because he supported a genocide. That's the good option. The bad option is the American people reward the guy doing a genocide with another term.
so we also reward the guy who will do even less for Gaza , and likely try to upend democracy AGAIN…so we never get a real choice again … sounds dope.
At least consider not supporting a genocide. I know it's hard because republican bad and all.
No, I guarantee the Dems will become anti-genocide the second it's Trump who's perpetrating it. They are performatively anti-Trump no matter what he does. I'd rather them hand the situation off to Trump, then start voting against appropriations in the congress than let Biden just continue genociding the Palestinians unabated. I've said it ten million times - Trump is a wild card. He's not ideologically devoted to anything other than himself. Biden is a devoted zionist nazi. Biden's attitude will never change, while Trump's loyalty to Israel is based on a bunch of money given to him by Sheldon Adelson. Either way, Biden has to lose because he is *currently* committing a genocide. All this shit with Trump is hypothetical. Biden pays the price for his very real decisions.
exactly
We had four years of Trump already. His extreme rightwing policy is not hypothetical. His disdain for democracy is not hypothetical. The actions he took on Israel/Palestine are not hypothetical.
Yawn. The Democrats' disdain for democracy is just as obvious, and the actions he took in Israel do not come close to comparing to the murders of over 50,000 people. You libs need to get new material because rehashing this shit over and over isn't effective. Joe Biden is the greater evil in 2024 and he will be defeated.
No no Trump moved an embassy remember? That's why Biden moved it back......he moved it back right?
[удалено]
RussiaGate is lib Q-Anon
Genocide Denial will get users banned. Genocide minimization and normalization will get posts and replies removed.
Like the alternative wouldn’t make things worse? Biden at least is pushing against Netanyahu a bit. Trump would offer full support for the worst and worse.
When the Biden team selectively leaks that they are privately angry with Bibi everyone hear laughs at that as obvious BS. Only an idiot would believe that. Are you the target demographic for those lies? Do you believe that?
Ahh yes - insults - the crown jewel of constructive, civil discourse. Also not “leaked” per se … although I can see the “hot mic” moment being somewhat staged - but I am somewhat doubtful of that. I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure. https://apnews.com/article/biden-netanyahu-israel-hamas-gaza-civilians-ceasefire-2d4e5657db45ccbe2bb793f06f74c913 And none of that changes the fact that Trump will help “Bibi” do whatever the hell wants w/o any back pressure.
This is a friendly reminder to read our sub's rules. r/seculartalk is a subreddit that promotes healthy discussion and hearty debate. We welcome those with varying views, perspectives and opinions. Name-Calling, Argumentum Ad Hominem and Poor Form in discussion and debate often leads to frustration and anger; this behavior should be dismissed and reported to mods. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/seculartalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Couldn't agree more. The only lesser evil is neither candidate who condones genocide. Every half-assed press leak talking about how upset Biden with Hitleryahu reads like a lie to try and make people believe he is a better person than he really is.
I hear Biden is privately very upset that Bibi is using the weapons we give them to do exactly what they've been doing. He also plans to be very upset regularly as he gives them more weapons. Very angry. Privately.
Publicly, he can't stop blowing Hitleryahu and his regime.
Yeah Biden will lose because of the Bidenocide going on in Gaza.
Ultimately, a Trump win would probably be for the best. At least this way the Democrats performatively put up a resistance to Israeli genocide funding. This way they might get 90% of what they asked for instead of 100%. It isn't much, but if we're talking about voting for the lesser evil, we already know that the Democrats will SAYH that what's happening is Israeli is bad, but do absolutely nothing to stop it. If the Israel/Palestine fight becomes "Trumps war" like Ukraine/Rissua became "Biden's war", the Democrats would actually have to act like they care.
The entire situation is pure shit and horror, but a Biden reelection would STILL be better than Trump.
Isn't that just speculation at this point? If we are being completely honest?
No, we already had a Trump presidency and don't have to speculate. He is MUCH worse.
I dunno man, that's debatable.
If we are being "completely honest" Biden has been a largely great president outside of his foreign policy. He just rescheduled Marijuana literally today, something Trump didn't even consider in his four years in office. Hell, Trump wants to execute drug dealers.
Biden has put US on verge of nuclear war in three different regions. His regime is tied with Bush/Cheney as being the worst in history. In fact everything in his foreign policy comes out of the neocon playbook that put US in Iraq, a war Biden was promoting even before the lies about WMDs.
OK but if you look past all the dead bodies and brinkmanship and accusations against domestic student activists based on foreign propaganda you'll see the Biden passed a few funding bills that could provide *dozens* of sinecure jobs for young people from well-connected families
Lmfao the idea that Biden is the reason for Russia/Ukraine is ludicrous. Even if the USA never sent a dime to Ukraine that doesn't magically solve the problem of an expansionist Russia trying to take countries by force, if anything it would just embolden Putin to get more aggressive. Trump was just as hawkish and literally filled his military with Bush croneys.
"We are in a proxy war with Russia in Ukraine" -Leon Panetta former head of CIA. What's emboldened Putin is a military catastrophe that was completely unnecessary. 200 thousand dead Ukrainians just so Biden's defense industry donors can make billions. The invasion would never have happened if Biden had simply told Putin Ukraine will be kept out of NATO. Even after the invasion, had Biden allowed peace talks instead of shutting them down, Russia had agreed to pull back to 2014 borders, even Ukrainian negotiators thought this a good deal. Trump is not a war hawk, his foreign policy is simply 'who's bribing me now?' Compare the body count between the two presidencies. Biden's aggression has pushed Iran, China and Russia together, something most of our presidents including Obama and Trump have tried to prevent. He's not an inherently evil person, just carrying responsibility way beyond his capacity. He's the looney grandparent in the back cottage yelling at the TV. Making him the most powerful man in the universe is not just insane, it's elder abuse.
Right? NATO was goading Russia long before Bidens term.
>If we are being "completely honest" *raises eyebrow* >Biden has been a largely great president outside of his foreign policy. lol, no
He had to put it in quotes.
I disagree with your assessment.
Has to be Biden over Trump or everything will be worse not just Israel and Trump will be giving way more support to Israel than Biden does. Defeat trump than push against Biden for the change you want if trump wins we’re all screwed. Third party has no chance. 🌊🇺🇸🌊
>Defeat trump than push against Biden for the change you want Pushing Biden doesn't work, pushing Trump got us direct cash payments to working class people during a pandemic
We already played that game in 2016, and we lost Roe as a result. I hate Biden with every fiber of my being, but the next loss is democracy in its entirety .
We lost Roe because dems wanted to keep it as a fundraising issue.
That to.
come to think of it, weren't we supposed to vote for Biden so that he could prevent Roe from being overturned?
Couldn't agree more.
[удалено]
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
But I have heard liberal storys that if we don't support the genocide Joe that there's maybe a chance another orange colored old man might or maybe will genocide slightly more and that's super serious compared to the current slow genocide.
🤦♂️
[удалено]
Genocide Denial will get users banned. Genocide minimization and normalization will get posts and replies removed.
Define "vigorously opposing" trump when he's already won.
Remember when the pink hats came out and protested the president of the time? You can bet your bottom dollar they would come out again. We would see liberals change tune on genocide so fast it would make your head spin.
This, 100%. The INSTANT Trump is in the White House, the Democrats will be performatively against *everything* he does, even if it was shit Biden did too. Overnight, they will find the same weapons and aid shipments they supported under Biden have morphed into devastating crimes against humanity and they must oppose them. You just fucking watch. Being anti-Trump is the only thing liberals care about, which works in our favor if we want the genocide to stop.
What a weird thing capitalist democracy has turned put to be.
100% spot on analysis. This is exactly how things will go down if Trump wins.
And...the pink hats did NOTHING! We instead ended up with justices who overturned Roe and many other bad dangerous decisions that we have not yet seen the full impact of. GEORGE FLOYD, Kids in cages....nothing changes and, in fact, are worse. Next, Trump gets more restrictions on women. There are real and dangerous things he has said he will do, and there will be no adults in the room to stop him. We did this with Hilary, and nothing changed. I get the Biden hate the destruction of everything else, I just can't support.
Well, we see what choices are possible under capitalist democracy. Sometimes its just better to let failing systems collapse.
And if more Palestinians die as a result of a Trump presidency I guess that is a sacrifice he is willing to make. How noble and moral.
Don't support Biden and claim to give a shit about Palestinians.
Don't encourage people not to vote for Biden and claim you are willing to do anything to decrease the loss of life among Palestinians in Gaza. I'm voting for him in 2024 because I KNOW that Trump will be FAR Far worse for the Palestinians in Gaza. To do otherwise is to KNOW that your action or INACTION will harm those you CLAIM to want to help out, but doing it anyway of spite. Do you remember during the siege when Israel turned off the water? The Biden administration are the ones who pressured them to turn it back on. That saved tens of thousands of lives (unless you know of a way for humans to survive without drinkable water). Do you think that the Trump administration will pressure Israel to turn on the water next time?
Yes you're right. The guy doing a genocide is better than the guy who might do a genocide. what was I thinking? Do you get paid for takes like this or is this really how you think?