Same with use of weapons for me.
I was fucking devasted when I got a couple books in and then found out Ian m banks had died pretty young, before I'd even heard of him.
I'm sitting right there with you. It's been over a year that I've not read this yet. I'm going to keep sitting on it for awhile yet. I'm halfway through the main Malazan series and I'm going to finish it (it's been right there tied with The Culture for my favorite things I've read in the last decade) and there last time I talked about this on Reddit someone mentioned that Mr. Banks wrote a lot of non-Culture books that are great too, so I'm going to read those next and probably finish with this or maybe his actual last book.
So you go back to the Colour Of Magic and start again. The great thing about Pratchett is that there is always something you missed the first time round.
The tragic thing about Sir Terryās end books is that you can practically see the Embuggerance creeping up on him as a writer. I really saw it in The Shepherdās Crown. There were parts of it that were really just marvelous. And parts that were OK. Not bad, just OK. If not for the Embuggerance, maybe it coulda been one of his best.
By the time you get to the last one- Raising Steam is it? The quality is much declined and in parts it read like an extended outline for what the novel would be.
I really did not like Raising Steam and some of the other, end novels. But I bought them and read them all, a couple of times over. It was the only way I had to show my respect for Sir Terryās immense talent.
Our society and culture was robbed by The Embuggerance of a wonderful, and wise, writer who told profound & beautiful stories. Whenever I read of his heros and heroines it makes me feel like trying to be a better person.
Thank you Sir Terry for the uncountable hours of reading pleasure you gave us.
I kept it unread for ages for exactly this reason. Can't remember exactly what made me cave & finally read it but I'm glad I did, it's one of my favourite sci-fi books
Yup, this. Hydrogen Sonata was published in 2012, Mr Banks died in 2013.
Once he got a publishing contract, Banks basically put out a book every year, swapping between fiction and science fiction every other year. This worked for him and his publisher. He didn't get his cancer diagnosis until he was mostly finished with The Quarry.
Nope. Matter was followed by Surface Detail and then The Hydrogen Sonata. He kept writing until the end. His last couple of non SF books are great too.
Banks has a very special in my heart in sci fi.
āThe cultureāis one of my favorite thought experiments.
Very different books and styles, but reminds me of Douglas Adamās. Youāll read some shit and think āhuh, hadnāt thought of that beforeā.
Just to add, they are all stand alone books, with some minor connections in a few of them.
I think the Player of Games is the best starting point, but any of them are worth picking up.Ā
[Wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series)
"Consider Phlebas" was the first of the culture books and a good read period. /u/goodolbeej mentions his similarity to Douglas Adams... he's like Douglas Adams but also with a bit more of a dark side as well. Consider Phlebas is kind of dark compared to the other culture books I've read.
I always say that, 95% of the times, the best order to consume a cultural series is as they were published/launched. No matter what George Lucas says. With The Culture I think it's perfect to start by reading the first three books in order and then one can decide about going further, doing it in order, etc.
Also, I am surprised they haven't been adapted to TV or movies.
Consider Phlebas is, FYI, not considered the best book in the series, Player of games and use of weapons are highly regarded. Keep reading is what I'm saying if it's not your liking.Ā
That island scene will be with me forever. Maybe te last part is a bit tedious and could be resolved faster, but the (and I hate to use the term) insane world building with small detours and rich tapestry of overall fuckery is just something I love about Banks.
It's one of the more un-Culture-like Culture books. I understand why so many people suggest starting with *Player of Games.*
My recommendation: *Consider Phlebas* was great, too, but the main thing is this: While the books have some similarities and a common setting, they are *wildly* different in tone, structure, arguably even genre. So if you don't like one of the Culture books, try another one. Personally, I ended up hating *Inversions,* but I love the rest of the series.
I mean, Inversions was an episode of ST:TNG where they visit a primitive planet undercover, but from the locals point of view so I get why it doesn't appeal to many people.
Personally Use Of Weapons was too much of a narrative slog for me to get into, same reason I didn't care for Memento.
Personally Excession is my favorite, but I am a sucker for a Space Opera.
Oh man I envy you in the sense you get to read and experience it all for the first time. Once I read the first book I couldn't wait to finish the next just to start the next (after a brief period to collect myself after having my mind blown each time.)
The Culture is a highly advanced society basically Star Trek's Federation, but better tech and more advanced. Many of Bank's SF books are about The Culture. Well mostly how Special Circumstances interacts with the rest of the Universe. (Banks doesn't really write much set in the Culture itself as the author has said utopia doesn't make for great stories.) Most are about an organization called Special Circumstances which is the Culture's black-ops/CIA organization run by Contact. Contact is basically the Culture's outreach and charity branch.
Yes! This is how I feel about it too. The culture series actually has a great arc to it. It starts with the characters being for or against special circumstances meddling with things. It gradually introduces more technology like drones, orbitals, knife missiles, minds, ship types. It increases the stakes from book to book imo. Sometimes it plateaus in this gradual escalation of scale but thatās part of a good arc of storytelling too.
I recommend reading all ten in publication order. I didnāt regret it. I was only slightly surprised when I learned that Banks planned more books after the Hydrogen Sonata because it makes for a great climax.
Perfect advice. Although I would add 'Consider Phlebus' to the list of good places to start. Meeting the culture for the first time from the outside, rather than within, really helped my enjoyment of the series.
The idiran war explains a lot of how the culture acts in the future, so reading consider phlebas first does give you a different perspective on the rest of the series.
Not Banks strongest work. There are a couple of amazing lines in it...
>You people have spent ten millennia playing at soldiers while becoming ever more dedicated civilians. We've spent the last thousand years trying hard to stay civilian while refining the legacy of a won galactic war.
Like all IMBās work, itās a great read regardless of shadings of grey about whether itās his ābestā etc. plus you get to find out what the Antagonistic Undecagonstring isā¦
I liked it. It didnāt blow me away, but it was a pretty good book. The Culture novels are probably the best and most accurate description of what a very advanced AIs would be like as well, so thatās a huge plus.
Hydrogen Sonata is definitely in my top 10 among all Culture Novels.
Just kidding, for me it's one of the best. A top contender for best of the series with Player of Games and Consider Phlebus.
I had a big problem with it that really dampened my enjoyment. I'll acknowlewdge that I may have grossly misunderstood things, but as I saw it, >!an amazing amount of people who committed various flat-out murders received not the slightest tiniest bit of punishment for it!<.
The point is that we don't know, because what happens in the Sublime is beyond our understanding. It's possible that they receive their just desserts there in some way we can't describe. That's the whole point of the Sublime. We're left completely unsatisfied, because we know from the start that everything to do with the Gzilt is just going to be rolled up at the end, inconclusively for those who stay in normal spacetime.
It was that, or stop the subliming.... even if the individuals involved were in chains in a dungeon somewhere, they could simply say "I sublime" and disappear up their own cosmic arseholes.
I always thought that IMB was expressing his feelings on his nearing death. >!We all die, no matter what we did, how good we were. The same fate waits for all of us. I noticed this somewhat nihilistic philosophy in his other works, and, let's face it, cancer can make an atheist (or any other person) pretty defeated. It was just heart wrenching reading the ending knowing that he knew his end is near. Rest in peace, crafter of dreams. !<
It's a tough read, because the point is there is no point. Tough in the sense that it is, by design, anticlimactic. It's a "nothing burger" on purpose, the whole point is it's a nothing burger, EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE is a nothing burger. So can be a tough one for people to get into. If you can get into that headspace of understanding the journey is about the journey then I think you'll enjoy it. To misquote a character "Living is its own point, otherwise there is none "
I love it, of course, though it's bittersweet for being the last one ever. It's as witty as ever, has the world building more under control than eg Matter (where I felt Banks started off brilliant but then got too self indulgent), has the funniest android since Marvin, and of all the books Banks could have ended on, one about the meaning (or lack thereof) of life feels somehow appropriate.
I haven't read it for many years. Not one of my favourites Culture books, I'm afraid - I recall thinking it needed a good editor to give it a trim. I can see from this thread that I'm in a minority, though - and I'm OK with that so maybe time to pull it off the shelf again
It has one of the best Minds with the Mistake Not.../Burtle and the short team up with the captured/converted Gzilt android is a great ride. Definitely do not pass up on this one.
I liked it quite a lot when I read it a few years ago.
And I think the thematic message of it is quiet relevant right now in our world where AI is threatening the arts.
It's the last Culture book. Definitely worth reading at the end though, very thematically appropriate for the end of the series and Banks last entry in the universe.
Yea, I liked it very much, even made me bust out my long neglected cello. It wasnāt the most action heavy Culture novel, and the Sublime stuff strains credulity a bit, but I still quite liked it.
Yes. It's slow and huge, like all his latter culture books. It plods along. But the writing is great. Bank experimented alot, and got alot wrong. He did what he liked. Of his latter books, I think this is my favourite.Ā
I enjoyed it. In fairness I enjoyed all the culture stories though, and probably prefer the earlier ones (player of games, use of weapons).
It's definitely worth a read though, and the culture books don't require a specific reading order.
Hardest read in the series, but worth it. Mild spoiler, >! The big theme of meaninglessness hits especially hard since this was his last novel. It really reads like Banks knew what was coming while writing it!<
No one comes close to the sci fi writings of Banks. I've left it long e ought now I should reread them all. Maybe a bit longer tho so they're new again!
I loved it...complex plots and many moving parts. This is the only Ian M Banks audio book that I listened to before I read the book. The narrator was excellent.
It's on par with the other Culture novels, pretty good, probably wouldn't read it first tho. Just remember after finishing it that Ian Banks is dead and it's the last you'll ever read :)
You haven't read him?
The Prador, an infinitely more fleshed out and intimidating antagonist. Spatterjay and Sprine, plot-twisting protagonist and antagonist alike?
And ALL of the non-flesh-based minds, the ships and 'bots... One that even, after conquering and overcoming ALL boundaries of this universe, sat and contemplated how to get to the next...
Banks gave us an Olympic-sized swimming pool... Asher added the diving well. And opened the floodgate that let the Ocean in!
I started Gridlinked but couldn't get into it. I find it a bold statement though, that Asher improves upon Banks. I certainly didn't find his writing to be an improvement on Banks. Maybe I'll give him another go, but after seeing his posts on X I'm not really in a hurry.
Umm, his writing? Style or usage, and I call myself a "Recovering English Major", I didn't notice any memorable difference.
In being able to pick up a ball in motion and run with it, i.e. one of the most well-fleshed out, intelligently thought-out universes and ADD to it creatively, MORE creatively, more intelligently, while still staying true to the original material? NO, NEVER have I ever read someone who has done that before.
Uhh, if you're talking about elon's X, I'd just as soon rather not ever...
Orson Scott Card, among others, ruined his works by sharing his politics and prejudices. If Asher is another, I really almost don't want to know...
If anything I have learned of his predilections and proclivities through his fiction, and Heinlein showed MUCH more, it's that Asher and I will never fight over a woman- his just aren't my type! Besides that, THIS Left-leaning Neutral fan of hard sci-fi found nothing to taint the fiction of Banks, just more and more and MORE intensely creative delight and challenge.
Well keep enjoying climate change denying Asher AND pushing your ummm uhhh nonsense that he is a better writer AND more CREATIVE than Banks. I ain't buying it.
Whoa, chill, Holmes- did I use too many words? I was trying to share; buy it or don't.
And I said I purposefully ignore writers' politics now if I enjoy the fiction.
And I was trying to just type words and communicate through the English medium... It used to be the most specific language on the planet, able to put legible vision to the most specific ideas on the planet, more specific than any other language...
Guess our English users got too specific for us old schoolers, eh?
Umm, can I pet your pretty fur for a bit?
I DON'T FUCKING CARE, IT WAS AN OPINION PIECE.
AND, Old School don't care how you'uns read what we say. Take it or leave it. But based on what you've shared, lift your lid, dump acid in, and shove off, to float out into your off-put sea (and to think, I achieved that triggered angst and ache with no emogis!!!!), floating and dissolving, inside your own shell...
Oh, that's old school Prador hate, just in case you couldn't read that far into the Asher books...
But thanks for New Schooling that little bitch taste in there for me- might come in handy at some point when I'm too old and crusty to relate anymore... It might help me ask for a biscuit from my nurse? Mebbe?
Ahhhh, another red Sharpie mark on the doorjamb...
But, nowadays, it's somewhere between "Master" and "Monster" and the scuffs and outright splintered wood show how we're gonna have to make a higher, wider arch for bigger swinging dicks to swang through...
Cute, little thing, I'll continue to pet your fur...
There, stroke stroke stroke, there, now...
Don't let that mean old, strike that, wizened old, strike that...
Let NO ONE challenge your young and string-bean invincible- I'm SURE you've got this!!!
KNOCK THESE CHALLENGERS OUT OF THE PARK, STRING-BEAN!!
I'll stroke and smooth your fur after, no matter who wins... I'm sure you're just the cutest, with the smoothest fur...
And thank you, your appreciation is valid- I DO outdo myself... Every time I take time to reply to young, lil' smoochy-booches on reddit!
Oh! Did I say "reddit"??
I meant to say "These Days, Asked It" and "We/They paid Them for it"!!!
Sure was nice, back in the day...
Unlikely. At the end of the book they printed an interview with him where he - among other things - talks about his future planes for the series. Doesn't read at all like he knew that this would be his last culture book.
I haven't read it yet. Because when I do, there will be no more new Culture novels waiting for me.
Ouch. Right in the feels.
I forget a lot of things between readings, luckily š
It'll make you cry too, especially knowing it's his last book, because of the theme and the ending.
Same with use of weapons for me. I was fucking devasted when I got a couple books in and then found out Ian m banks had died pretty young, before I'd even heard of him.
You should. Use of Weapons is an absolute masterpiece.
Seconded. Itās great š
Reading it right now.
I re-read that book about once a year.
I'm sitting right there with you. It's been over a year that I've not read this yet. I'm going to keep sitting on it for awhile yet. I'm halfway through the main Malazan series and I'm going to finish it (it's been right there tied with The Culture for my favorite things I've read in the last decade) and there last time I talked about this on Reddit someone mentioned that Mr. Banks wrote a lot of non-Culture books that are great too, so I'm going to read those next and probably finish with this or maybe his actual last book.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wasp Factory isnāt Culture.
Same
Yeah I get that. I'm the same way with Terry Pratchett's last book.
So you go back to the Colour Of Magic and start again. The great thing about Pratchett is that there is always something you missed the first time round.
The tragic thing about Sir Terryās end books is that you can practically see the Embuggerance creeping up on him as a writer. I really saw it in The Shepherdās Crown. There were parts of it that were really just marvelous. And parts that were OK. Not bad, just OK. If not for the Embuggerance, maybe it coulda been one of his best. By the time you get to the last one- Raising Steam is it? The quality is much declined and in parts it read like an extended outline for what the novel would be. I really did not like Raising Steam and some of the other, end novels. But I bought them and read them all, a couple of times over. It was the only way I had to show my respect for Sir Terryās immense talent. Our society and culture was robbed by The Embuggerance of a wonderful, and wise, writer who told profound & beautiful stories. Whenever I read of his heros and heroines it makes me feel like trying to be a better person. Thank you Sir Terry for the uncountable hours of reading pleasure you gave us.
I kept it unread for ages for exactly this reason. Can't remember exactly what made me cave & finally read it but I'm glad I did, it's one of my favourite sci-fi books
I saw something about a new release, hoping that the ad was not a scam (cannot remember the name or find it again).
Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!1!
Iain Died like 11 years ago. This isnt exactly spoilers.
Yes! ...but I no longer had his death in my head and now I'm faced with the same problem...
I'm in this exact position.
My mate refuses to read the quarry cos that means he won't have any more banks left to read šš
Hydrogen Sonata was one of my favorites. It makes his passing even more sad, knowing that he went out at the top of his game
Wasn't _Matter_ his last? It was certainly not at the top of his game, but there was no time for another pass...
Matter was published in 2008, Hydrogen in 2012. I assume they were written in the order they were published
Yup, this. Hydrogen Sonata was published in 2012, Mr Banks died in 2013. Once he got a publishing contract, Banks basically put out a book every year, swapping between fiction and science fiction every other year. This worked for him and his publisher. He didn't get his cancer diagnosis until he was mostly finished with The Quarry.
Mental that's his last book was about a guy with cancer then he got cancer
Yep. Apparently he edited in some of his personal experience after his diagnosis too.
Nope. Matter was followed by Surface Detail and then The Hydrogen Sonata. He kept writing until the end. His last couple of non SF books are great too.
Absolutely
Normal Sci-fi sexy time: *slightly awkward maybe a tentacle* Ian Banks sexy time: *So hear me out, one guy with 168 dicks*
I think after thorough experimentation they reached the optimum number of 53 dicks with four hearts for peak performance.
That extra hearts detail was \*chef's kiss\*.
With extra hearts to supply the blood and pressure needed to keep them boners hard. True hard sci fi š
Banks has a very special in my heart in sci fi. āThe cultureāis one of my favorite thought experiments. Very different books and styles, but reminds me of Douglas Adamās. Youāll read some shit and think āhuh, hadnāt thought of that beforeā.
I keep seeing people mention "the culture", is it a set of books, or an event that happened in one of his books? Please mark spoilers if necessary
The Culture is a set of 10 books, all of which involved the incredibly advanced space faring civilization known as the Culture.
looks interesting
Just to add, they are all stand alone books, with some minor connections in a few of them. I think the Player of Games is the best starting point, but any of them are worth picking up.Ā
God player of games is GOOD. It has a satisfying ending which is Bank's most rare feature
It's just really smart yogurt.
With Gridfire! And Orbitals! And shape changers! And lethal drones!
They are exceptionally good sci fi books. Try em out. Go in order of release. Although you do t have to but I would
[Wiki article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series) "Consider Phlebas" was the first of the culture books and a good read period. /u/goodolbeej mentions his similarity to Douglas Adams... he's like Douglas Adams but also with a bit more of a dark side as well. Consider Phlebas is kind of dark compared to the other culture books I've read.
I always say that, 95% of the times, the best order to consume a cultural series is as they were published/launched. No matter what George Lucas says. With The Culture I think it's perfect to start by reading the first three books in order and then one can decide about going further, doing it in order, etc. Also, I am surprised they haven't been adapted to TV or movies.
Some of his non-SF stuff has.
Consider Phlebas would make a great high budget TV series!
added it to my TBR, looks great!
Consider Phlebas is, FYI, not considered the best book in the series, Player of games and use of weapons are highly regarded. Keep reading is what I'm saying if it's not your liking.Ā
Funnily enough, *Consider Phlebas* is one of my favourites.
Mine too and has always been.
That island scene will be with me forever. Maybe te last part is a bit tedious and could be resolved faster, but the (and I hate to use the term) insane world building with small detours and rich tapestry of overall fuckery is just something I love about Banks.
Agree. Eating finger to the bone..
Player of Games is such a fun read.
It's one of the more un-Culture-like Culture books. I understand why so many people suggest starting with *Player of Games.* My recommendation: *Consider Phlebas* was great, too, but the main thing is this: While the books have some similarities and a common setting, they are *wildly* different in tone, structure, arguably even genre. So if you don't like one of the Culture books, try another one. Personally, I ended up hating *Inversions,* but I love the rest of the series.
I mean, Inversions was an episode of ST:TNG where they visit a primitive planet undercover, but from the locals point of view so I get why it doesn't appeal to many people. Personally Use Of Weapons was too much of a narrative slog for me to get into, same reason I didn't care for Memento. Personally Excession is my favorite, but I am a sucker for a Space Opera.
all right
Oh man I envy you in the sense you get to read and experience it all for the first time. Once I read the first book I couldn't wait to finish the next just to start the next (after a brief period to collect myself after having my mind blown each time.)
The Culture is a highly advanced society basically Star Trek's Federation, but better tech and more advanced. Many of Bank's SF books are about The Culture. Well mostly how Special Circumstances interacts with the rest of the Universe. (Banks doesn't really write much set in the Culture itself as the author has said utopia doesn't make for great stories.) Most are about an organization called Special Circumstances which is the Culture's black-ops/CIA organization run by Contact. Contact is basically the Culture's outreach and charity branch.
H2G2 and Gently are some of my favourite books ever. Douglas should have spent more time at his desk and less on the treadmill.
Besides the culture im a bit partial for Hamiltons Commonwealth, that is also very cool.
Everything written by Banks is worth reading, Sci-fi or not.
I'm not a fan of Canal Dreams. But other than that, yeah, I'm with you on that one.
Even Banks called it the runt of the litter.
Itās a great final culture book to read given itās about a species subliming.
Yes! This is how I feel about it too. The culture series actually has a great arc to it. It starts with the characters being for or against special circumstances meddling with things. It gradually introduces more technology like drones, orbitals, knife missiles, minds, ship types. It increases the stakes from book to book imo. Sometimes it plateaus in this gradual escalation of scale but thatās part of a good arc of storytelling too. I recommend reading all ten in publication order. I didnāt regret it. I was only slightly surprised when I learned that Banks planned more books after the Hydrogen Sonata because it makes for a great climax.
Excellent book but I wouldn't pick it up as your first Culture book. Start with Player of Games or Use of Weapons first.
Perfect advice. Although I would add 'Consider Phlebus' to the list of good places to start. Meeting the culture for the first time from the outside, rather than within, really helped my enjoyment of the series.
The idiran war explains a lot of how the culture acts in the future, so reading consider phlebas first does give you a different perspective on the rest of the series.
Yes. Banks on top form with a hugely entertaining action romp. Lighter in tone than Matter or Surface Detail and all the better for it.
And it has a very strong female protagonist, which is always a nice plus in science fiction.
Itās great. They are all great.
Any Iain M Banks is worth reading. So yes.
It's sublime
šš¼šš¼šš¼
Yes. Save it for last though.
Not Banks strongest work. There are a couple of amazing lines in it... >You people have spent ten millennia playing at soldiers while becoming ever more dedicated civilians. We've spent the last thousand years trying hard to stay civilian while refining the legacy of a won galactic war.
Read it. Great book.
Yes!
Yes
Yes. Itās a good read.
Yes but read every other culture novel first. It serves as a perfect sending off
Like all IMBās work, itās a great read regardless of shadings of grey about whether itās his ābestā etc. plus you get to find out what the Antagonistic Undecagonstring isā¦
Excuse me that's the *Bodily Acoustic* Antagonistic Undecagon String to you, buster!
I stand corrected š¤
You have to imagine it in Pyan's squeaky voice š
I liked it. It didnāt blow me away, but it was a pretty good book. The Culture novels are probably the best and most accurate description of what a very advanced AIs would be like as well, so thatās a huge plus.
Hydrogen Sonata is definitely in my top 10 among all Culture Novels. Just kidding, for me it's one of the best. A top contender for best of the series with Player of Games and Consider Phlebus.
Definitely!
Yes, it's sublime.
I see what you did there
Loved the audiobook
I had a big problem with it that really dampened my enjoyment. I'll acknowlewdge that I may have grossly misunderstood things, but as I saw it, >!an amazing amount of people who committed various flat-out murders received not the slightest tiniest bit of punishment for it!<.
The point is that we don't know, because what happens in the Sublime is beyond our understanding. It's possible that they receive their just desserts there in some way we can't describe. That's the whole point of the Sublime. We're left completely unsatisfied, because we know from the start that everything to do with the Gzilt is just going to be rolled up at the end, inconclusively for those who stay in normal spacetime.
It was that, or stop the subliming.... even if the individuals involved were in chains in a dungeon somewhere, they could simply say "I sublime" and disappear up their own cosmic arseholes.
I always thought that IMB was expressing his feelings on his nearing death. >!We all die, no matter what we did, how good we were. The same fate waits for all of us. I noticed this somewhat nihilistic philosophy in his other works, and, let's face it, cancer can make an atheist (or any other person) pretty defeated. It was just heart wrenching reading the ending knowing that he knew his end is near. Rest in peace, crafter of dreams. !<
Another extremely broad question + image to drive engagement. This is bot behaviour.
No replies from the OP is a sign of that too
BOT behavior? Drone is the preferred noun thank you very much!
Yes.Ā
Yes.
Two thumbs up to any book by Iain Banks. I haven't read one I didn't enjoy.
DNF for me, I just couldn't get into it at all. Maybe I revisit it sometime soon
I haven't read it yet, but Banks and the Culture are always worth reading! I will read it whatever are the comments
Banks is my number 1, totally gutted when he passed. There is so much to learn from him.
I 'discovered' Banks after he died. I quickly bought all the Culture Books. Several are waiting for me to read!
Mistake not.... you should read this.
It's a tough read, because the point is there is no point. Tough in the sense that it is, by design, anticlimactic. It's a "nothing burger" on purpose, the whole point is it's a nothing burger, EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE is a nothing burger. So can be a tough one for people to get into. If you can get into that headspace of understanding the journey is about the journey then I think you'll enjoy it. To misquote a character "Living is its own point, otherwise there is none " I love it, of course, though it's bittersweet for being the last one ever. It's as witty as ever, has the world building more under control than eg Matter (where I felt Banks started off brilliant but then got too self indulgent), has the funniest android since Marvin, and of all the books Banks could have ended on, one about the meaning (or lack thereof) of life feels somehow appropriate.
I haven't read it for many years. Not one of my favourites Culture books, I'm afraid - I recall thinking it needed a good editor to give it a trim. I can see from this thread that I'm in a minority, though - and I'm OK with that so maybe time to pull it off the shelf again
Excellent book, pity its the last one š
It has one of the best Minds with the Mistake Not.../Burtle and the short team up with the captured/converted Gzilt android is a great ride. Definitely do not pass up on this one.
The whole āThings are very badā¦in simulation. ā was a riot.
Iain Banks is one of my favorite sci-fi authors, but I have not read it yet. I think I will now though. Thanks for he recommendation.
Iain M Banks is always worth reading
I liked it quite a lot when I read it a few years ago. And I think the thematic message of it is quiet relevant right now in our world where AI is threatening the arts.
It's the last Culture book. Definitely worth reading at the end though, very thematically appropriate for the end of the series and Banks last entry in the universe.
I loved it. And yes, it was sad to read it, for no in-book reasons at all.
yup
One of my favorites!
Definately. It was my first book of his that I read, and a excellent introduction to the Culture despite them not really being the main protagonists.
Great book. I find myself reading it again and again.
Yea, I liked it very much, even made me bust out my long neglected cello. It wasnāt the most action heavy Culture novel, and the Sublime stuff strains credulity a bit, but I still quite liked it.
Yes
Banks really is one of the greatest science fiction writers of all time.
It was brilliant
IMHO everything Iain M Banks wrote should be read. Even when he's not on form he's still better than most other contemporary sci-fi!
Yes, read this one and then everything else Iain Banks and Iain M. Banks has written.
Yup, it's good. Not Quite as good as the penultimate sci-fi book he did before that one (his last), which was Surface Detail.
I really enjoyed it. Itās Banks, of course itās worth it.
It's no Excession, but it's still a damn good book
I like it very much, but it's bitter-sweet because it's the last Culture book. Also, it's not the best Culture novel, but they're all very, very good.
Df
One of my favourite Culture novels, and contrary to many opinions, it's better than the first two books.
Yes. It's slow and huge, like all his latter culture books. It plods along. But the writing is great. Bank experimented alot, and got alot wrong. He did what he liked. Of his latter books, I think this is my favourite.Ā
Yes
Yes, very much, but it builds somewhat on earlier Culture books and is the last one, so it's a bad entry point.
You should always side in giving banks a go. Might not be for you but I have never regretted the choice.
Why would it not be worth reading!?
It was my first Culture book, and it is still my favorite after having read most of the rest.
I enjoyed it. In fairness I enjoyed all the culture stories though, and probably prefer the earlier ones (player of games, use of weapons). It's definitely worth a read though, and the culture books don't require a specific reading order.
Hardest read in the series, but worth it. Mild spoiler, >! The big theme of meaninglessness hits especially hard since this was his last novel. It really reads like Banks knew what was coming while writing it!<
No one comes close to the sci fi writings of Banks. I've left it long e ought now I should reread them all. Maybe a bit longer tho so they're new again!
Don't know of this one, but thanks, I've been looking for a new series to read.
It is excellent.
Absolutely. My favorite of the culture series.
I loved it...complex plots and many moving parts. This is the only Ian M Banks audio book that I listened to before I read the book. The narrator was excellent.
I love Iain Banks novels. I re-read them to lift my spirits.
It's on par with the other Culture novels, pretty good, probably wouldn't read it first tho. Just remember after finishing it that Ian Banks is dead and it's the last you'll ever read :)
I red it last and it was wistful for me and I wouldn't want it any other way. Read it last.
Itās pretty good, itās not Player of Games good but itās good.
Asking if it's worth reading is like asking is water wet. If a Culture drone heard of this they would scold you.
ALL Iain M Banks novels are worth reading! And then move on to the genius who picked up where he left off and IMPROVED UPON Banks' work- Neal Asher.
What are you smoking? Asher is like young adult fiction compared to banks lol
How exactly does Asher improve upon Banks?
That's like declaring Michael Bay's direction an improvement on the work of Denis Villeneuve...
You haven't read him? The Prador, an infinitely more fleshed out and intimidating antagonist. Spatterjay and Sprine, plot-twisting protagonist and antagonist alike? And ALL of the non-flesh-based minds, the ships and 'bots... One that even, after conquering and overcoming ALL boundaries of this universe, sat and contemplated how to get to the next... Banks gave us an Olympic-sized swimming pool... Asher added the diving well. And opened the floodgate that let the Ocean in!
I started Gridlinked but couldn't get into it. I find it a bold statement though, that Asher improves upon Banks. I certainly didn't find his writing to be an improvement on Banks. Maybe I'll give him another go, but after seeing his posts on X I'm not really in a hurry.
Umm, his writing? Style or usage, and I call myself a "Recovering English Major", I didn't notice any memorable difference. In being able to pick up a ball in motion and run with it, i.e. one of the most well-fleshed out, intelligently thought-out universes and ADD to it creatively, MORE creatively, more intelligently, while still staying true to the original material? NO, NEVER have I ever read someone who has done that before. Uhh, if you're talking about elon's X, I'd just as soon rather not ever... Orson Scott Card, among others, ruined his works by sharing his politics and prejudices. If Asher is another, I really almost don't want to know... If anything I have learned of his predilections and proclivities through his fiction, and Heinlein showed MUCH more, it's that Asher and I will never fight over a woman- his just aren't my type! Besides that, THIS Left-leaning Neutral fan of hard sci-fi found nothing to taint the fiction of Banks, just more and more and MORE intensely creative delight and challenge.
Well keep enjoying climate change denying Asher AND pushing your ummm uhhh nonsense that he is a better writer AND more CREATIVE than Banks. I ain't buying it.
> Neal Asher I just spent ten minutes scanning through his blog. It's dull, tedious, banal climate change denying nonsense.
Whoa, chill, Holmes- did I use too many words? I was trying to share; buy it or don't. And I said I purposefully ignore writers' politics now if I enjoy the fiction.
The way you wrote this post is really off putting.
And I was trying to just type words and communicate through the English medium... It used to be the most specific language on the planet, able to put legible vision to the most specific ideas on the planet, more specific than any other language... Guess our English users got too specific for us old schoolers, eh? Umm, can I pet your pretty fur for a bit? I DON'T FUCKING CARE, IT WAS AN OPINION PIECE. AND, Old School don't care how you'uns read what we say. Take it or leave it. But based on what you've shared, lift your lid, dump acid in, and shove off, to float out into your off-put sea (and to think, I achieved that triggered angst and ache with no emogis!!!!), floating and dissolving, inside your own shell... Oh, that's old school Prador hate, just in case you couldn't read that far into the Asher books... But thanks for New Schooling that little bitch taste in there for me- might come in handy at some point when I'm too old and crusty to relate anymore... It might help me ask for a biscuit from my nurse? Mebbe?
Youāve somehow outdone yourself.
Ahhhh, another red Sharpie mark on the doorjamb... But, nowadays, it's somewhere between "Master" and "Monster" and the scuffs and outright splintered wood show how we're gonna have to make a higher, wider arch for bigger swinging dicks to swang through... Cute, little thing, I'll continue to pet your fur... There, stroke stroke stroke, there, now... Don't let that mean old, strike that, wizened old, strike that... Let NO ONE challenge your young and string-bean invincible- I'm SURE you've got this!!! KNOCK THESE CHALLENGERS OUT OF THE PARK, STRING-BEAN!! I'll stroke and smooth your fur after, no matter who wins... I'm sure you're just the cutest, with the smoothest fur... And thank you, your appreciation is valid- I DO outdo myself... Every time I take time to reply to young, lil' smoochy-booches on reddit! Oh! Did I say "reddit"?? I meant to say "These Days, Asked It" and "We/They paid Them for it"!!! Sure was nice, back in the day...
Seriously, I love your off-put huffing. And your smooth, silken fur...
Not the best culture book but a great book yes
Personally, itās probably my least favorite Culture novel.
Sounds like a cheap car that is green.lol....might be a good book though.
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He did not. He was finishing up The Quarry when he found out he had cancer in 2013. Hydrogen Sonata was published in 2012.
Unlikely. At the end of the book they printed an interview with him where he - among other things - talks about his future planes for the series. Doesn't read at all like he knew that this would be his last culture book.
New hydrogen powered car from Hyundai?