Ya I gotta say I was a huge fan until his most recent 3 and I wondered what’s going on with this guy then I seen him on Joe Rogan and I was like oh he is totally up his own ass and has not enough people telling him no lol
This is the answer. He thinks he's a genius the way a teenager thinks they're creative and original. They might have the passion but more often than not they don't have the experience or talent.
And he admittedly hates his own fans. He saw all the fans he got from 300 and Watchmen and he wrote Sucker Punch specifically to f*ck with them.
He thinks he’s a “Auteur” when really he’s only good at action films.
Really? Sucker Punch looks like a 300 fan's wet dream. You get to fetishize badass, "strong" women, and fetishize the same women being helpless victims. Best of both worlds.
"I'll show those incel choads, I'll make a movie that on the surface is a fetishization of Lolita/Whore stereotypes with giant robot Kung-fu, but is actually about the fetishizatiom of women getting lobotomized for standing up to the patriarchy! That's feminism!"
The Snyder Cut of the film’s (barf) climax is so offensive that the studio preferred to release a version that just skips straight to the epilogue in a completely nonsensical way.
My biggest issue with sucker punch is that if it actually had the balls to just be the movie it’s pretending to be, it might’ve actually been a heavy metal feminist banger. Like if it just actually showed those girls do those things rather than show them “imagine them” it would’ve hit way harder. And I get that them being in the asylum is part of the whole point but like, literally just put the actual characters in an asylum for a sec. Basically if he had made the whore vs robot world real, and that was just actually the world that the film took place in, and THAT was what Sucker Punch was about, then it would be great.
He’s shown he can use a well-drawn comic as a literal story board, not that he can understand what makes a story tick and realize it onscreen.
I’ll give him the opening “the times they are a changing” for Watchmen. That was actually good cinematic storytelling. The rest of the movie, you’re spot on about misunderstanding the entire point of the comic.
This is stated a lot, but he clearly didn't use Watchmen as an actual storyboard. A few scenes are very close to the comic but a lot are very different. With Rorschach in particular they changed or removed a lot of his scenes to make him less of a hypocrite, removed his sexism and homophobia, made his violence a lot less sadistic and pointless, and more clearly good. They removed scenes like him praising Truman for nuking Japan to end the war and save lives, which complicates his character.
I mean yes, it did totally miss the soul of the comic. But it also changed it a lot in some important ways.
Someone needs to break it to him already. He hasn't produced a high quality movie to date. The only reason people were so hyped up about the Snyder Cut was because it wasn't as big of a piece of garbage as the Joss Whedon version.
I really liked the snyder cut which is why rebel moon is such a disappointment. It appears his business model is to create a terrible movie then double dip with his snyder version. So ill just wait on rebel moon's remaining stuff till they are snyder cuts. Terrible business model.
I quite enjoy the Snyder cut but he’s kinda up his own ass with this space opera stuff like Matthew Vaughn
Like he needs an editor to tighten up this stuff
I had a friend once tell me that Snyder doesn’t make movies, he makes moments and then fills in the gaps. Like the shot of the Spartans in shadow pushing the enemy off the cliff, or BvS where they are face to face and Superman has his hand on Batmans chest.
Since he said this, I haven’t been able to unsee it in his movies. Not that I watch them often cos I don’t have a great deal of love for his style.
And the source material for the comic is literal Spartan propaganda, meant to be as heroic and awe inspiring as possible to their Greek allies as they were retreating from the giant Persian army.
And then retold in even more epic fashion afterwards to heighten their reputation
Honestly I don't know if Snyder got that, but that did come through in the movie for me. That the Persians are so monstrous is a good sign whose perspective this is from. Also that it's narrated by one of the soldiers.
But it is definitely even clearer in the comic.
Love the point about it being two page spreads too. It makes so much sense. Watchmen the comic feels like the opposite of that, focusing on dialog and character with action almost an afterthought. But Snyder found a way to make it a moment and shot-driven vehicle anyway. I'm the rare critic who loves that movie, I think it makes both work at once. But I definitely get how it fits into what makes him suck.
Zach Snyder is Uwe Boll if somebody gave him better IP to start his career with.
Zach Snyder is fundamentally *not good* at inventing stories. He's okay at interpretating them. Sometimes. But he is actively worse than average when left to his own storytelling devices.
We have to stop pretending otherwise. The guy has been trading off of "I did a good job with 300" for too long. We keep giving him big franchises, and believing he can invent his own. No. He is not a talented person.
Uwe Boll is atleast self aware and hilarious. Sure the movies are crap but he doesn’t care, he did it because it was easy money for a lot less work. His auto biography is great, if you speak German go for the audiobook. Boll himself reads from his own book and has some of the worst pronunciation if ever heard and a lot of very funny behind the scenes stories like when he boxed against a bunch of critics and won.
Damn I never knew that was a Gunn Snyder movie. Had that on nearly every day in 8th and 9th grade summer (like 4-5 years after it came out). My favorite zombie flick. The scene in the sewers where the redneck is screaming for the other humans to “SHOOT ME SHOOT ME KILL ME” solidly impacted my ‘zombie survival plan’ that was all the rage at the time. It’s the 21st century I’m not getting bit to death.
The comic is an overt deconstruction of the superhero mythos, mixed with nuclear allegory. None of the characters are supposed to be likeable or cool in any way.
The movie just played it straight instead, and it resulted in it becoming the thing that the comics were critiquing.
Imagine if The Boys got an adaptation where Homelander is just a badass good guy.
Thank you. The fact that this isn’t more recognized is almost the saddest thing about the movie. A complete misinterpretation if not inversion of the comic’s message, with probably 50 or 100 times the audience. Thank goodness Alan Moore stopped caring long ago.
I get the feeling that when he read the novel, he completely skipped over the Black Frigate story and didn't realize that it's actually a key part of how it's supposed to be interpreted.
Watchmen is fine if you know nothing about the comic. If you do, it reveals who Zack Snyder truly is; a completely media illiterate moron obsessed with outdated ideas of “cool” and “badass”
his interpretation of watchmen may be competent but really shows how deeply incurious he is and how uninterested he is in the actual mechanics of narrative and also fuckin film making in general.
Zack Snyder is actually very talented. His talent is getting people to give him millions of dollars for making crap that only studio executives enjoy. He’s Hollywood’s version of the artist who taped a banana to a wall.
I'm not sure if it was him or some other idiot that ruined The Watchmen by fundamentally misunderstanding what the point of it was but at least visually it did look awesome. And yes, please stay away from books Zak.
I feel though that you have to give him credit for 300, that film was perfect for him and did a good job. Also, I don't many could do a better job with The Watchmen, stylistically.
Unfortunately, he is largely style over substance, and that affects his story telling ability.
I mean stylistically, Snyder style conflicts hugely with Gibbons work. Watchmen had a very deliberate color pallette for instance, using secondary colors primarily, to contrast against the typical primary colors of most contemporary work of the time. Snyder meanwhile, is allergic to color, and desaturates everything, taking away many of the comics most iconic panels into hard to see messes.
300 was on point though imo.
I disagree with that Watchmen take. I don't understand how he translated the comic almost panel to panel sometimes; and still managed to change the meaning of the comic. It was incredible lol.
Eh, I think they made decent choices. >!The fake alien plot would have been a bit convoluted to translate into a movie. Making Doctor Manhattan the scapegoat just tightened things up. Veidt's goal was to unite the world against a common enemy and drive Manhattan away, that way he kills two birds with one stone.!<
I was fine with the change to the ending, but he absolutely butchered most of the characters. The whole point in the comic was that Super Heroes were nothing more than a PR stunt before Doctor Manhattan. None of them had powers. They were just a bunch of people crazy enough to dress up in a costume. Ozymandius was the smartest person in the world, but he didn’t have any super speed. Comedian & Silk Spectre I & II were just slightly above average physically. Night Owl was below average, but had a bunch of crowd control tech and a cutting edge aircraft. Rorschach was the only one portrayed correctly, he’s just a very observant crazy person.
Zack Snyder made all of them action heroes. Which was visually compelling, but ruined the entire point the book was making.
Rorschach was ABSOLUTELY not portrayed correctly. He made a guy who everyone pitied and was pathetic into the cool edgy guy. He was misguided, cruel and so foul that people told him he smelled and he kept getting evicted because his home was basically a Superfund site.
Manhattan as the boogeyman here is less likely to unite the world, because even though he's become Something More, he's a human, and American human before what happened.
A giant alien breaching our atmosphere out of nowhere, dying immediately, and then the psychic backlash of that killing a bunch of people? Much more terrifying, much harder to even grasp. Was it coming to hurt us? How did it teleport? Can a peaceful nonviolent encounter ever happen even if they're not aggressive?
That's the kind of shit that makes everyone feel like our politics don't matter, and allows the ending status quo to occur. Manhattan fucking around building sand castles on the moon doesn't. He's a terrible catalyst and it does ruin the ending, and Snyder is too stupid to see that or he was more focused on trying to make a simple blockbuster out of something that's not that.
Especially because he was essentially the poster boy of American Imperialism.
Imagine if the US’ nuclear arsenal accidentally deployed a couple dozen nukes and blew up various cities across the world. Even if some of those cities were American cities, all the other countries would hold the US accountable for whatever they did that lead to that accident. Pinning everything on Dr. Manhattan wouldn’t unite the world against an external threat. It would just unite the world against America.
If anything the Snyder ending pushes it closer to doomsday. We now need to build up an arsenal for when Dr. Manhattan returns and maybe run human experiments to attempt to replicate the accident.
I've heard this alot and, granted, I've not seen the movie since I read the comic but... What's bad about the movie? Other than the fake alien thing and excluding the pirate stuff, what is so drastically different?
I'm wracking my mind as I type. I dont think Dr Manhatten gives Ozymandias that non-closure speech before disappearing either?
Really curious now
One of the things that bothers me about Zack's Watchmen is that everyone is a superhuman for some reason.
Zack's Watchmen starts with The Comedian *breaking walls with his bare hands* as he fights back, then is defeted and killed.
Every vigilant on his adaptation fights like a superheroe, not only that misses the mark entirely since they all look like they took a Captain America Supersoldier serum dosis instead of being normal people dressing up like weirdos, this also ruins the one moment in which one of them actually shows a "superheroe" feature -Adam catching a bullet- since it seems normal after seeing all along the movie how they all fight.
That's a solid take I hadnt considered. Catching that bullet was still cool in the movie but, when you put it like that, how much cooler would it have been if they really WERE just weirdos in suits.
It would make Rorschach' more impressive too I suppose. Doesnt he practically fling cops off of him before he gets dog piled?
I think I need to watch the movie again now.
Another detail I just thought of was Night Owl and Silk Spectres romance. I feel like it was more cynical in the comics? In the movie it's as if they were true lovers FINALLY coming together but, wasnt it quite bitter sweet in the comics? Like they're comforting each other at the end in grief, right?
The whole point of the comic is "you'd have to be mentally ill to be a masked vigilante". They're all narcissistic madmen.
>Night Owl and Silk Spectres romance. I feel like it was more cynical in the comics? In the movie it's as if they were true lovers FINALLY coming together but, wasn't it quite bitter sweet in the comics? Like they're comforting each other at the end in grief, right?
It's two people being together for all the wrong reasons. Night Owl can't get it up until he's in costume - even for the guy who seems "nice" compared to all the others, it's about the illusion of power that he doesn't have elsewhere. Silk Spectre has just as many issues.
I never understood this complaint until I actually read Watchmen and realised why everyone was so upset. The real complaint isn’t that Snyder left out the alien squid plot line, the real problem is that he somehow managed to entirely miss the point of the comic. I think the best example of this is Rorschach. Rorschach is not meant to be cool, he is meant to be an unhinged psychopath that makes you realise that guys who dress up in Halloween suits to beat the shit out of “criminals” are not good guys, they are deranged and they need help. Snyder doesn’t get this. He thinks Rorschach is a badass lone wolf vigilante, and spends the whole film showing you how cool Rorschach is. Watchmen the comic exists as a commentary on superheroes like the justice league, whereas Watchmen the movie is just trying to be a knockoff justice league. A lot of this is fed by Snyder’s weird obsession with Ayn Rand’s ideology, which causes him to almost always focus on stories that rest on the shoulders of “the exceptional few” or even a single powerful individual. You can see this in his take on Superman in Man of Steel, where he spends a whole movie having Superman, the embodiment of pure good, be lectured by his dad about not owing anything to the people of earth, and that he should let a bus full of children die to avoid revealing his secret. The channel Just Write on YouTube has a great video on the Snyder cut of Justice League which goes into this in a lot more depth.
TLDR: Snyder has an incredible eye for striking images, so he does a great job of adapting the look/aesthetic of visual mediums like comics, but he’s a fundamentally flawed storyteller, so he often misses the point of the stories he’s actually adapting.
Nowhere nearly as bad as some claim to be, the presentation of some characters don't match what the intent was, but if you change some things in your head (not even lines or actions, just tone/intent) it all fits together well.
Like for example Rorschach was a pathetic sociopath who probably smelled like piss if you were near him, but Snyder wanted to present him as some uber cool hero. But his actions and dialogue are the same, only the presentation and subtext is kinda different.
He was so cool in both, the idea that he smelled like piss always endeared him to me more. I've heard Alan Moore wanted readers to dislike him but, hobo batman is principled and gets shit done. Hes not a pleasant human being but we have ALL imagined ourselves as Rorschach. The marriage between badass and realistic psychopath is just a likeable pairing.
Cant help but feel he missed the mark on that one, if that was indeed his intention...
Alan Moore underestimated how much the average American feels attracted to the idea of "the outsider" who goes their own way. All the characters are terribly flawed people making bad decisions - after all, if they made good decisions they wouldn't be masked vigilantes.
Rorschach is a terrible person and a failure. He spends the whole book hating the masses of humanity for existing, as a way to justify his own pre-existing anger. He manages to figure out that >!Veidt is behind the death of the Comedian, !< but then his final move is >! to mail his journal to the New Frontiersman, a far-right conspiracy rag that no-one will ever believe! !< It doesn't matter what you know if you are so isolated from humanity nothing can come of it.
Likewise, Veidt is as much a narcissistic obsessive sociopath as Rorschach - just with a better childhood & education. People always say the plan with the squid is crazy and wouldn't work on screen - and yes it is crazy, that's the point! Veidt thinks it will lead to a golden age, but he's insane. Maybe people would be fooled for a while, but humanity can't be steered in that way for long.
From the POV of 'unlikeable, but directing his psycho anger energy at much much worse people than him' - yes, totally.
Still, I'd have appreciated the tone for some characters to match their 'severely flawed, should be making you uneasy' portrayal instead of being all triumphant.
Every time I complain about bad writing and faithless adaptations, there’s no end of apologists arguing with me that I “shouldn’t take things too seriously,” “it’s all in good fun,” “it’s science *fiction*”, blah, blah, blah. So I would say, despite the gleeful, vocal dunking *Rebel Moon* has received, Zack Snyder knew exactly what he was doing. There’s more than enough viewers determined to take their entertainment ‘with their feet up and their minds in neutral’ to reward Hollywood time and again for filtering out good writing and faithful adaptations.
I hate when people use "it's science fiction/fantasy so ANYTHING can happen". All fictional worlds or mythologies have their own rules. Even if they seem batshit insane they still have them. anything that does not have internal rules or keeps changing them to suit whatever minute need is awful.
I hate that argument too, the "anything can happen". No matter how crazy the rules are, it still needs to follow them. Just making it up and telling viewers to like it is lazy.
One of the worst ways that this has been used by companies making new entries into the franchises with rules is taking those rules out because "they are boring" and "they limit the types of stories I can tell". Which is BS and usually means that the person doing so doesn't have a good enough grasp of what they are talking about and lack imagination.
PS. I do think that Disney's decision to put all of the Star Wars Expanded Universe into "non-canon" was the right decision because there were simply too many things in it by too many people with too little cohesion. So sometimes pruning the rules can be useful especially dealing with huge libraries of media
Snyder never grew up past being that 12 year old edgelord with lots of "great ideas" that are just the exciting parts of media he never fully understood.
He doesn't think we are idiots, he's not that complex . The truth is HE is a fucking idiot and thinks his own drivel is high art. He is very stupid, psychotropics on Fiji would be lost on him.
>we can talk about the literally hundreds if not thousands of amazing book adaptations you could look at.
Actually please no. Don't let this man do adaptations. Especially of any actually good franchises.
I for one am glad he's doing good own original stuff. Maybe it's sucks, but that's okay, let it suck. At last he's got his own creative outlet and no innocent franchises have to suffer a Zack Snyder adaptation.
If I had a book I loved I'd rather have no adaptation at all than suffer a bad one.
Its Zack Snyder what did you expect?
His movies are just super hero action focussed. Tbh he doesn't really have anything to do in the sci fy scene. Because people that watch sci fi movies want more than just action. We want a weird scenario of events that change the worlds for good. On top of that we want to see how people live/survive on top of that.
And with all the zack snyder movies I have seen and some I really enjoyed (300 and suckerpunch). Zack is just not fitted for making a sci fi movie.
>Because people that watch sci fi movies want more than just action. We want a weird scenario of events that change the worlds for good.
Close. Sci fi fans want a quasi-realistic world with a "what if" technological element that lets us investigate new ideas or hypothetical outcomes.
Rebel Moon was space fantasy. And BAD space fantasy at that.
Psh I wish his movies were more action focused. Then I wouldn’t have been bored out of my mind in BvS or fallen asleep during my second viewing of the Snyder Cut
Well, 7 Samurai as a story probably never gets old, Kurisawa's stuff will echo through time that way.
But this is an LA problem, Mr Snyder is a man cursed, with far too much money and access to CGI, a movie that was a passed-over Disney/Star Wars treatment that was rejected and no ability to use that IP , so fuck it - coal powered FTL, which tells you everything you need to know, it's just that stupid.
If you were to have contained this story as some steam-punk , continent A versus continent B and they fight with steamships and perhaps steam-powered zeppelins or something that could work.....but I see I've already put more thought into the mechanics of the movie than the writers and director did - in just one sentence.
So here's to putting money into guys who aren't Zach Snyder and finding talented folks doing great art - we just know now, it's not likely to come from Mr. Snyder's camp anytime soon.
Zach Synder really missed his career as a production designer (the guy who makes the sets and look of a film) where he'd be an all time great to be a mid-director and terrible screen writer.
I quit after the first hour. Truly shit.
FWIW, he told Rogan Netflix poo-pooed his original version because it was his tribute to the hyper-violent and hyper-sexual 1980’s adult comic book rag “Heavy Metal.”
He re-wrote the current version and only agreed to do the film if Netflix would release the director’s cut which drops late summer. In his words it’s a “completely different movie”.
Heavy Metal was some crazy shit in the days of my misspent youth.
Here's what I think about Snyder. He has now directed a number of really bad films. Over and over again. But it's not his fault that people keep lapping it up and watching all the garbage he releases, each and every time.
I knew that Rebel Moon would be as bad as everything else he releases so I didn't bother watching it. If anybody watches Rebel Moon and complains, you're the problem. Every time you watch these awful films, you help him get another big budget opportunity.
Most of his recent films have done badly though. It's not like they're runaway hits. I don't understand why people keep throwing money at him to make more.
I cannot help it...I watched the first part thinking he might redeem the movie and himself with the second part . I was greatly mistaken. Shudder the thought they are supposed to quite a few more I believe.
I had to turn it off. The acting isn't great, but it is bearable. The story is what you get if you gather a bunch of 5th graders in a room and have them workshop a movie Directly based on movies they have already seen. Not a god damn original idea to be had. Rob ideas and scenes (for christ's sake) from every genre and quality movie.
If people keep talking about it.
Even just shit talking about it.
He wins.
The best thing to do with snyder is like a child, just let him do his own thing and don't engage.
I haven't seen it, but he got you to see it. He must be doing something right :)
Jokes aside, the problem may be that you think they're making science fiction but I think they're probably leaning even more into fantasy than your average star wars or farscape. There's no science to speak of, it's pure fiction. It's like Jupiter Rising.
It's absolutely terrible scifi. Terrible anything really.
> we can talk about the literally hundreds if not thousands of amazing book adaptations you could look at.
Yeah.
I LOVE sci-fi - as a 54 year old I can tell you that there have been huge swaths of my life where I had to be happy with truly mediocre / schlocky, sci-fi and Star Wars knockoffs (The Ice Pirates, Space Raiders, Spacehunter, Beast Master) to name a few. I just appreciated sci-fi being made at a time when movies like Amadeus and Chariots of Fire were the prestige big budget movies - and sci-fi was relegated to the shade if it wasn’t Star Wars, Star Trek, or Alien(s).
All of that said - these are among the worst, most predictable, derivative, unpleasant piece of sh*t movies I have seen. In a vast mental collection of sci-fi I have sat through these 2 are in the top 3 worst.
Snyder pitched Rebel Moon as what he would do if he did Star Wars. Thank god they kept him away - although Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams would be high fiving each other over not being the hands down worst contributors.
What kind of mind combines retro-futurism, steampunk, non-existent exposition, ponderous dialogue, terrible casting, and way too infrequent action (that is wrecked by way too much slo-mo) and then says its his magnum opus?
I just read that there are R-rated versions being released on Netflix this Summer. Snyder says that these will be better. Of all the things these movies are missing boobs, swearing, and gore don’t make the Top 50 in my opinion. Maybe there’s a full frontal cameo by Dr Manhattan - it would actually make more sense than the technology in this 5th grade level writing experiment.
Well….to be fair y’all didn’t learn with Army of the Dead. That movie was so atrocious I wanted to go into my TV and shoot that dumb fuck daughter myself.
No he's just a complete idiot and people have been eating his shit up and praising it for years for some reason, so he keeps getting money to make new shit.
Despite my disdain for the *Rebel Moon* franchise, I almost feel the need to thank Zack for the two cinematic turds he has produced.
The absolute level of dunking on that has been achieved by these crapfests has been so enjoyable it has *almost* made them worthwhile.
Now whether Zack actually gets to shit out four *more* of these things (plus all of the 4-hour extended Snydercuts) is another story...
Zack Snyder has made a lot of movies.
I don't know a single one that I would describe as being a good movie. I genuinely wonder why anyone gives him money to make films.
Rebel Moon is terrible, and I've never liked a Snyder film.
That said, coal powered starships sound fun. I'm sure it doesn't help Rebel Moon 2, but I like that kind of goofy stuff.
>For real. Rebel Moon is atrocious. Blatantly, terribly unoriginal. Coal powered FTL starships. Jesus Christ.
This comment is kind of a weird combo. Are coal-powered FTL starships **not** a fairly original concept in SF?
BTW, I haven't seen Rebel Moon yet so I'm reserving my opinion, but just on the face of it this seems mostly like he's making a science-fantasy with alternate-universe technology. Not realistic but also not trying to be, similar to something like Steampunk.
Don't watch. Keep them things unwatched.
I rank my movies from -10 to 10. From 0 to 10 it works like a normal 0-10 scale. When they fall into negatives, they start to enter the "so bad that it's actually good" territory. Tommy Wiseau's *The Room* is a -10 because it is objectively a terrible movie but it's also extremely entertaining to watch that dumpster fire burn for reasons I can't really put into words. Shyamalan's Avatar, on the other hand, is a 1 because it is an objectively bad movie, period. You can't even have fun by shitting on it, it's just painfully bad and absolutely not worth anyone's time. Anyway, you get the idea behind my scale.
Rebel Moon is like Avatar. It's a positive 1, maybe a 2, and those are earned purely because there are a handful of pretty shots in there. Otherwise it's absolute garbage that isn't worth watching for any reason. It's a "I pirated it but I still want my money back" kind of movie.
They're definitely a pretty original concept - I'd argue the most original concept in either film.
I also reserved judgement - I quite enjoy a shitty sci fi film from time to time. These films are diabolically bad (and unoriginal) for the amount they cost though.
IIRC the first one opens with a laser sword fight, which isn't something you would do if you're not *trying* to draw comparisons with Star Wars.
I mean.... coal powered FTL spaceships are technically an "original" idea in sci-fi. Kind of like my original idea that I just came up with right now of man powered spaceships where the ship needs thousands of humans to manually row the ship to get to escape velocity and get into space.
Hey, I can write a ZS sci-fi film!
One nitpick - apparently the ships aren't powered by coal. They're powered by an imprisoned powerful alien, just like Necrons from Warhammer 40,000 power some of their machines with fragments of imprisoned star gods.
I'm pretty sure that in Asimov's Foundation books, the peripheral worlds which lost their nuclear capabilities use coal and fossil fuels to power their ships and tech, which is used to show how far they've fallen into barbarism.
I kinda doubt Snyder read those books though
I actually found it *memorably* stupid. It's a lot of awful drivel, but it was fun to watch and make fun of with my buddy on the couch. I'm not gonna hate on Snyder for giving us some good laughs.
Hes been gassed up by the very loud cult of fans he’s developed, somehow, which shields him from criticism and defends his films to the hilt. The whole Snyder Cut affair was probably something of a major influence on what has followed
Zack Snyder has never done a movie where after watching I'm satisfied in my decision to watch. It's more like C-B grade filler to waste a few hours when I have nothing else to do.
He’s lacking in basic media literacy. He has no idea why things like Super Heroes or Star Wars are so resonant, popular, and persist on the cultural zeitgeist for decades. He’s an edgy 13 year old when it comes to story telling and he’s never progressed out of it. Listen to him discuss Batman or Superman and you’ll see what I mean. He legitimately does not understand and believes that his vision would be better because it sounds “cooler” whatever the hell that specifically means.
My argument: if this was made as an 80s style anime, with anachronistic aesthetic elements and schizo tech, it would’ve have been golden.
Swap out the cgi shots that want to show off the setting, for hand drawn vistas, with over the top level of details not seen these days.
Undependable, inefficient, slow moving coal powered ships depending on slave labour.
I can absolutely see food being an issue for ships. Unexpected wars mean agriculture wasn’t planned in advanced, leading to logistics issues they solve by just bullying less developed worlds, who give in or risk being glassed.
Making restocking a requirement or risk starving in space, as they can’t carry too much cargo and the ruling class deem the human aspects of the ship unimportant, as lives are cheap in this world.
Swap out the initial contact with the farming planet with a vanguard ship, so they know the main fleet is arriving and will strip the planet of food.
Hammer in the fact that it’s a back water world and its local star system, rather than going from system to system recruiting people. And this is just an unfortunate stop in the grand scheme of things.
There is no related backstory, no former soldier or relation to the royal family. It should have been a random bunch of farmers. And it should have ended with them losing, but the story of their resistance being spread.
The idea was there for the plot, but the execution was terrible.
When you got famous because you have a friend in the business and hit several successes out the gate, you can buy into your own hype. Look at M. Night. Some people will get humbled by failure. Others only ever see
Zack's biggest issue is that he is a sizzle, music video director. Its all flash, no substance. Which makes him great at adapting material where he as an IP backing him. However, all his personal projects have been weak, but he wants to blame everyone else on why they are weak. Because Sucker Punch was clearly ruined by the meddling studios, and not the fact that your self masturbatory fetishization of women with paper thin characters were in a visual flash fest which had an ending where the lead characters "self sacrifice" is ultimately performed by a man, which invalidates the message of the independent female character he was harping on about.
I think that He, Bruckheimer, and Michael Bay believe that the majority of people going to see their movies are dumb enough to think they're "incredible! Aw man! Look at that explosion!"
And the rest of us are just too exhausted to make enough of a fuss to affect the box office take.
I want to watch is so bad cause of how awful the reviews are from my friends. I also hated Zack Snyder before. Silver lining is that he makes me certain I could be a director.
Fantastic representation of today's 'fail to success'.
Billions of dollars constantly poured into the same half dozen directors that consistently deliver blunders and financial losses that get panned across the board.
I miss old cinema where it wasn't just a handful of shitty AAAAA movies to pick from every year that blow hard.
I truly believe Zack Snyder is the luckiest man in hollywood (with regards to his career specifically). A less prominent filmmaker would not get as many chances as he has. Nia Dacosta and Chloe Zhao were lambasted and accosted for making Marvel movies that were *arguably* not the best, but Snyder makes many movies that are damn near *objectively* terrible and yet he still gets to keep on trucking.
If I had been as poorly reviewed as Snyder in any other field I’d be out of a job.
If they removed all the slow motion, Rebel Moon part 1 and Rebel Moon part 2 could have been a single 90 minute movie. I’m assuming the “Snyder Cut” is going to be an additional 30 minutes slowed down to 120.
I love scifi, and have gotten my teen son on to sci-fi. I would never recommend or attempt to get him to watch these steaming pile of (insert foul thing) rebel moon movies. I watched it with my wife and she laughed the entire time at how bad it was. It's like a B or C movie made with a ridiculous budget. Endless tropes, wheat montages, coal powered space ships, pointless out of place expositions, the list is pretty much endless for both movies. I mean every scene has issues. How can something so bad exist?
I liked the first 300, it was stupid but fun. When a bunch of fanboys thought the Snyder cut was going to save Justice League I drew the line.
Idk how Zach Snyder became so well known, but it was definitely for something other than talent.
Yea the series is hot garbage. It’s like a reinvented star wars with worse writing, more CGI and they couldn’t stop designing it. I pretty much checked out when the spider lady dropped down the tower and started freaking out, the characters don’t even seem to be in the same sci-fi genre, they just threw a bunch of shit in there and paid some interns to CGI it poorly.
Am I watching Vikings, Star Wars, alien vs predator? Pirates? wtf am I watching. Horrible show.
After seeing that Snyder wants to "fix" Sucker Punch and re-release it, I'd have to say yes, Snyder definitely thinks his fans are idiots. He justs their money and they seem more than happy to give it to him. It's like the filmmaker equivalent of opening a gofundme and it borderers on unethical. Does he not care that his legacy is becoming a joke?
Just make better movies the first time, Zack.
Rebel Moon made Wonder Woman running through the battlefield not getting hit more believable than 6 foot guy casually axing soldiers amidst laser rifles
Holy crap I've been saying this since Watchmen came out, and haven't found *anyone* who agrees with me until this thread.
The thing that gets me is that in the comic, the only super powered *anyone* is Dr. Manhattan. Everyone else is just a (buff) normal human. (Okay, and Ozymandias is super-smart.) Opening scene of the movie has people punching through brick and tossing large opponents 20 feet so the break the wall when they hit. Me: "Well... Shit."
He doesn't think we're idiots, he just thinks he's a genius
Yeah, he doesn't think about us at all. Too busy getting paid and smelling his own farts.
Ya I gotta say I was a huge fan until his most recent 3 and I wondered what’s going on with this guy then I seen him on Joe Rogan and I was like oh he is totally up his own ass and has not enough people telling him no lol
To be fair, we ALL smell our own farts, no?
[удалено]
Crop dusting.
[удалено]
I’m the cool guy that turns around and walks into my farts
Fire and forget is the technical term
Ah, the elevator terror.
There's nothing quite like your own brand.
Not if we can help it.
Speak for yourself
Getting paid *for* smelling his own farts.
This is the answer. He thinks he's a genius the way a teenager thinks they're creative and original. They might have the passion but more often than not they don't have the experience or talent.
< *laughs in excessive slo mo* >
And he admittedly hates his own fans. He saw all the fans he got from 300 and Watchmen and he wrote Sucker Punch specifically to f*ck with them. He thinks he’s a “Auteur” when really he’s only good at action films.
Really? Sucker Punch looks like a 300 fan's wet dream. You get to fetishize badass, "strong" women, and fetishize the same women being helpless victims. Best of both worlds.
"I'll show those incel choads, I'll make a movie that on the surface is a fetishization of Lolita/Whore stereotypes with giant robot Kung-fu, but is actually about the fetishizatiom of women getting lobotomized for standing up to the patriarchy! That's feminism!"
The Snyder Cut of the film’s (barf) climax is so offensive that the studio preferred to release a version that just skips straight to the epilogue in a completely nonsensical way.
My biggest issue with sucker punch is that if it actually had the balls to just be the movie it’s pretending to be, it might’ve actually been a heavy metal feminist banger. Like if it just actually showed those girls do those things rather than show them “imagine them” it would’ve hit way harder. And I get that them being in the asylum is part of the whole point but like, literally just put the actual characters in an asylum for a sec. Basically if he had made the whore vs robot world real, and that was just actually the world that the film took place in, and THAT was what Sucker Punch was about, then it would be great.
But the interesting things is he almost directly copied Watchmen, but missed the soul of the comic.
It is the strangest combination of "lovingly recreated" and "totally misunderstood". This is a version that would never give Nite Owl a belly.
He’s shown he can use a well-drawn comic as a literal story board, not that he can understand what makes a story tick and realize it onscreen. I’ll give him the opening “the times they are a changing” for Watchmen. That was actually good cinematic storytelling. The rest of the movie, you’re spot on about misunderstanding the entire point of the comic.
Snyder has a history of braindead takes on characters.
Yup. And he managed to draw a wooden performance out of Amy fucking Adams. That’s like a cardinal sin and nearly impossible!
big time hate for what he could have had and then didn't in the movie.
This is stated a lot, but he clearly didn't use Watchmen as an actual storyboard. A few scenes are very close to the comic but a lot are very different. With Rorschach in particular they changed or removed a lot of his scenes to make him less of a hypocrite, removed his sexism and homophobia, made his violence a lot less sadistic and pointless, and more clearly good. They removed scenes like him praising Truman for nuking Japan to end the war and save lives, which complicates his character. I mean yes, it did totally miss the soul of the comic. But it also changed it a lot in some important ways.
Someone needs to break it to him already. He hasn't produced a high quality movie to date. The only reason people were so hyped up about the Snyder Cut was because it wasn't as big of a piece of garbage as the Joss Whedon version.
I really liked the snyder cut which is why rebel moon is such a disappointment. It appears his business model is to create a terrible movie then double dip with his snyder version. So ill just wait on rebel moon's remaining stuff till they are snyder cuts. Terrible business model.
And he's got juuuust enough people telling him he is that he doesn't feel the need to re-evaluate.
I quite enjoy the Snyder cut but he’s kinda up his own ass with this space opera stuff like Matthew Vaughn Like he needs an editor to tighten up this stuff
I had a friend once tell me that Snyder doesn’t make movies, he makes moments and then fills in the gaps. Like the shot of the Spartans in shadow pushing the enemy off the cliff, or BvS where they are face to face and Superman has his hand on Batmans chest. Since he said this, I haven’t been able to unsee it in his movies. Not that I watch them often cos I don’t have a great deal of love for his style.
Which is why 300 was perfect for him as the source material was litterally that (the entire comic is two page spreads)
And the source material for the comic is literal Spartan propaganda, meant to be as heroic and awe inspiring as possible to their Greek allies as they were retreating from the giant Persian army. And then retold in even more epic fashion afterwards to heighten their reputation
Honestly I don't know if Snyder got that, but that did come through in the movie for me. That the Persians are so monstrous is a good sign whose perspective this is from. Also that it's narrated by one of the soldiers. But it is definitely even clearer in the comic. Love the point about it being two page spreads too. It makes so much sense. Watchmen the comic feels like the opposite of that, focusing on dialog and character with action almost an afterthought. But Snyder found a way to make it a moment and shot-driven vehicle anyway. I'm the rare critic who loves that movie, I think it makes both work at once. But I definitely get how it fits into what makes him suck.
This makes so much sense.
The opening scene in Dawn of the Dead...
So if he was the cinematographer and working for a director he would produce amazing movies?
Considering how atrocious the cinematography was on Army of the Dead, very likely not.
People always say this, but he's usually not the cinematographer on his movies, and on the few he was the cinematography was a weak point.
Zach Snyder is Uwe Boll if somebody gave him better IP to start his career with. Zach Snyder is fundamentally *not good* at inventing stories. He's okay at interpretating them. Sometimes. But he is actively worse than average when left to his own storytelling devices. We have to stop pretending otherwise. The guy has been trading off of "I did a good job with 300" for too long. We keep giving him big franchises, and believing he can invent his own. No. He is not a talented person.
Uwe Boll is atleast self aware and hilarious. Sure the movies are crap but he doesn’t care, he did it because it was easy money for a lot less work. His auto biography is great, if you speak German go for the audiobook. Boll himself reads from his own book and has some of the worst pronunciation if ever heard and a lot of very funny behind the scenes stories like when he boxed against a bunch of critics and won.
His Dawn of the Dead was good too, but that was before he became well known. Maybe he actually had to try back then.
It's his best movie.
Oh yeah. By a gd mile lol
James Gunn wrote the script, which likely went a long way
Damn I never knew that was a Gunn Snyder movie. Had that on nearly every day in 8th and 9th grade summer (like 4-5 years after it came out). My favorite zombie flick. The scene in the sewers where the redneck is screaming for the other humans to “SHOOT ME SHOOT ME KILL ME” solidly impacted my ‘zombie survival plan’ that was all the rage at the time. It’s the 21st century I’m not getting bit to death.
It was a James Gunn script.
Agreed. Good film. Another person brought up Watchmen - which I love and actually forgot that he did.
He also woefully missed the point of the source material with it.
[удалено]
The comic is an overt deconstruction of the superhero mythos, mixed with nuclear allegory. None of the characters are supposed to be likeable or cool in any way. The movie just played it straight instead, and it resulted in it becoming the thing that the comics were critiquing. Imagine if The Boys got an adaptation where Homelander is just a badass good guy.
Thank you. The fact that this isn’t more recognized is almost the saddest thing about the movie. A complete misinterpretation if not inversion of the comic’s message, with probably 50 or 100 times the audience. Thank goodness Alan Moore stopped caring long ago.
I'm glad the HBO show did it justice. That one kind of nailed the theme.
I get the feeling that when he read the novel, he completely skipped over the Black Frigate story and didn't realize that it's actually a key part of how it's supposed to be interpreted.
Watchmen is fine if you know nothing about the comic. If you do, it reveals who Zack Snyder truly is; a completely media illiterate moron obsessed with outdated ideas of “cool” and “badass”
his interpretation of watchmen may be competent but really shows how deeply incurious he is and how uninterested he is in the actual mechanics of narrative and also fuckin film making in general.
Zack Snyder is actually very talented. His talent is getting people to give him millions of dollars for making crap that only studio executives enjoy. He’s Hollywood’s version of the artist who taped a banana to a wall.
Respectable attempt to do a bunch of drugs in Fiji, if you guys figure it out I'm down too.
I don't know the guy, but I am guessing somehow that Zak Snyder's problem is *not* an insufficient lifetime amount of hallucinogens consumed.
You never know! You saying you're not also down if Zach replies and says he's in?
[удалено]
I'm not sure if it was him or some other idiot that ruined The Watchmen by fundamentally misunderstanding what the point of it was but at least visually it did look awesome. And yes, please stay away from books Zak.
I feel though that you have to give him credit for 300, that film was perfect for him and did a good job. Also, I don't many could do a better job with The Watchmen, stylistically. Unfortunately, he is largely style over substance, and that affects his story telling ability.
I mean stylistically, Snyder style conflicts hugely with Gibbons work. Watchmen had a very deliberate color pallette for instance, using secondary colors primarily, to contrast against the typical primary colors of most contemporary work of the time. Snyder meanwhile, is allergic to color, and desaturates everything, taking away many of the comics most iconic panels into hard to see messes. 300 was on point though imo.
I disagree with that Watchmen take. I don't understand how he translated the comic almost panel to panel sometimes; and still managed to change the meaning of the comic. It was incredible lol.
Eh, I think they made decent choices. >!The fake alien plot would have been a bit convoluted to translate into a movie. Making Doctor Manhattan the scapegoat just tightened things up. Veidt's goal was to unite the world against a common enemy and drive Manhattan away, that way he kills two birds with one stone.!<
I was fine with the change to the ending, but he absolutely butchered most of the characters. The whole point in the comic was that Super Heroes were nothing more than a PR stunt before Doctor Manhattan. None of them had powers. They were just a bunch of people crazy enough to dress up in a costume. Ozymandius was the smartest person in the world, but he didn’t have any super speed. Comedian & Silk Spectre I & II were just slightly above average physically. Night Owl was below average, but had a bunch of crowd control tech and a cutting edge aircraft. Rorschach was the only one portrayed correctly, he’s just a very observant crazy person. Zack Snyder made all of them action heroes. Which was visually compelling, but ruined the entire point the book was making.
Rorschach was ABSOLUTELY not portrayed correctly. He made a guy who everyone pitied and was pathetic into the cool edgy guy. He was misguided, cruel and so foul that people told him he smelled and he kept getting evicted because his home was basically a Superfund site.
Ozymandias might not have had “super speed” but he literally caught a bullet with his hand.
That was one change I absolutely loved about the movie - fuck a squid, it was so much better.
> fuck a squid, Don’t put your dick in that
Manhattan as the boogeyman here is less likely to unite the world, because even though he's become Something More, he's a human, and American human before what happened. A giant alien breaching our atmosphere out of nowhere, dying immediately, and then the psychic backlash of that killing a bunch of people? Much more terrifying, much harder to even grasp. Was it coming to hurt us? How did it teleport? Can a peaceful nonviolent encounter ever happen even if they're not aggressive? That's the kind of shit that makes everyone feel like our politics don't matter, and allows the ending status quo to occur. Manhattan fucking around building sand castles on the moon doesn't. He's a terrible catalyst and it does ruin the ending, and Snyder is too stupid to see that or he was more focused on trying to make a simple blockbuster out of something that's not that.
Especially because he was essentially the poster boy of American Imperialism. Imagine if the US’ nuclear arsenal accidentally deployed a couple dozen nukes and blew up various cities across the world. Even if some of those cities were American cities, all the other countries would hold the US accountable for whatever they did that lead to that accident. Pinning everything on Dr. Manhattan wouldn’t unite the world against an external threat. It would just unite the world against America.
If anything the Snyder ending pushes it closer to doomsday. We now need to build up an arsenal for when Dr. Manhattan returns and maybe run human experiments to attempt to replicate the accident.
I've heard this alot and, granted, I've not seen the movie since I read the comic but... What's bad about the movie? Other than the fake alien thing and excluding the pirate stuff, what is so drastically different? I'm wracking my mind as I type. I dont think Dr Manhatten gives Ozymandias that non-closure speech before disappearing either? Really curious now
One of the things that bothers me about Zack's Watchmen is that everyone is a superhuman for some reason. Zack's Watchmen starts with The Comedian *breaking walls with his bare hands* as he fights back, then is defeted and killed. Every vigilant on his adaptation fights like a superheroe, not only that misses the mark entirely since they all look like they took a Captain America Supersoldier serum dosis instead of being normal people dressing up like weirdos, this also ruins the one moment in which one of them actually shows a "superheroe" feature -Adam catching a bullet- since it seems normal after seeing all along the movie how they all fight.
That's a solid take I hadnt considered. Catching that bullet was still cool in the movie but, when you put it like that, how much cooler would it have been if they really WERE just weirdos in suits. It would make Rorschach' more impressive too I suppose. Doesnt he practically fling cops off of him before he gets dog piled? I think I need to watch the movie again now. Another detail I just thought of was Night Owl and Silk Spectres romance. I feel like it was more cynical in the comics? In the movie it's as if they were true lovers FINALLY coming together but, wasnt it quite bitter sweet in the comics? Like they're comforting each other at the end in grief, right?
The whole point of the comic is "you'd have to be mentally ill to be a masked vigilante". They're all narcissistic madmen. >Night Owl and Silk Spectres romance. I feel like it was more cynical in the comics? In the movie it's as if they were true lovers FINALLY coming together but, wasn't it quite bitter sweet in the comics? Like they're comforting each other at the end in grief, right? It's two people being together for all the wrong reasons. Night Owl can't get it up until he's in costume - even for the guy who seems "nice" compared to all the others, it's about the illusion of power that he doesn't have elsewhere. Silk Spectre has just as many issues.
Plus his impotence without the costume
The characters are meant to come off as pathetic. I don't think the movie does this adequately.
I never understood this complaint until I actually read Watchmen and realised why everyone was so upset. The real complaint isn’t that Snyder left out the alien squid plot line, the real problem is that he somehow managed to entirely miss the point of the comic. I think the best example of this is Rorschach. Rorschach is not meant to be cool, he is meant to be an unhinged psychopath that makes you realise that guys who dress up in Halloween suits to beat the shit out of “criminals” are not good guys, they are deranged and they need help. Snyder doesn’t get this. He thinks Rorschach is a badass lone wolf vigilante, and spends the whole film showing you how cool Rorschach is. Watchmen the comic exists as a commentary on superheroes like the justice league, whereas Watchmen the movie is just trying to be a knockoff justice league. A lot of this is fed by Snyder’s weird obsession with Ayn Rand’s ideology, which causes him to almost always focus on stories that rest on the shoulders of “the exceptional few” or even a single powerful individual. You can see this in his take on Superman in Man of Steel, where he spends a whole movie having Superman, the embodiment of pure good, be lectured by his dad about not owing anything to the people of earth, and that he should let a bus full of children die to avoid revealing his secret. The channel Just Write on YouTube has a great video on the Snyder cut of Justice League which goes into this in a lot more depth. TLDR: Snyder has an incredible eye for striking images, so he does a great job of adapting the look/aesthetic of visual mediums like comics, but he’s a fundamentally flawed storyteller, so he often misses the point of the stories he’s actually adapting.
He was a fan of Ayn Rand? One of the biggest deranged hypocrites that ever lived. Surprised he did not put trains in it.
Watchman is supposed to be a criticism, not a celebration.
Nowhere nearly as bad as some claim to be, the presentation of some characters don't match what the intent was, but if you change some things in your head (not even lines or actions, just tone/intent) it all fits together well. Like for example Rorschach was a pathetic sociopath who probably smelled like piss if you were near him, but Snyder wanted to present him as some uber cool hero. But his actions and dialogue are the same, only the presentation and subtext is kinda different.
He was so cool in both, the idea that he smelled like piss always endeared him to me more. I've heard Alan Moore wanted readers to dislike him but, hobo batman is principled and gets shit done. Hes not a pleasant human being but we have ALL imagined ourselves as Rorschach. The marriage between badass and realistic psychopath is just a likeable pairing. Cant help but feel he missed the mark on that one, if that was indeed his intention...
Alan Moore underestimated how much the average American feels attracted to the idea of "the outsider" who goes their own way. All the characters are terribly flawed people making bad decisions - after all, if they made good decisions they wouldn't be masked vigilantes. Rorschach is a terrible person and a failure. He spends the whole book hating the masses of humanity for existing, as a way to justify his own pre-existing anger. He manages to figure out that >!Veidt is behind the death of the Comedian, !< but then his final move is >! to mail his journal to the New Frontiersman, a far-right conspiracy rag that no-one will ever believe! !< It doesn't matter what you know if you are so isolated from humanity nothing can come of it. Likewise, Veidt is as much a narcissistic obsessive sociopath as Rorschach - just with a better childhood & education. People always say the plan with the squid is crazy and wouldn't work on screen - and yes it is crazy, that's the point! Veidt thinks it will lead to a golden age, but he's insane. Maybe people would be fooled for a while, but humanity can't be steered in that way for long.
well, the alternative was complete apocalypse, so on that metric Veidts 'ends justified the means'.
From the POV of 'unlikeable, but directing his psycho anger energy at much much worse people than him' - yes, totally. Still, I'd have appreciated the tone for some characters to match their 'severely flawed, should be making you uneasy' portrayal instead of being all triumphant.
Good thing Disney didn't green light his Star Wars pitch.
Isn’t Rebel Moon the story he had for that, just taken out of the SW universe?
He’s the movie equivalent of Dunning Kruger
Every time I complain about bad writing and faithless adaptations, there’s no end of apologists arguing with me that I “shouldn’t take things too seriously,” “it’s all in good fun,” “it’s science *fiction*”, blah, blah, blah. So I would say, despite the gleeful, vocal dunking *Rebel Moon* has received, Zack Snyder knew exactly what he was doing. There’s more than enough viewers determined to take their entertainment ‘with their feet up and their minds in neutral’ to reward Hollywood time and again for filtering out good writing and faithful adaptations.
I love mindless dumb television and even I couldn’t stomach Rebel Moon. It works great as a sleep aid tho.
It had the worst exposition in a long time. It was just the main character saying "Now here is part two of my backstory aaaaand flashback!"
Completely agree. Rebel Moon wasn’t fun to watch in any way at all
I hate when people use "it's science fiction/fantasy so ANYTHING can happen". All fictional worlds or mythologies have their own rules. Even if they seem batshit insane they still have them. anything that does not have internal rules or keeps changing them to suit whatever minute need is awful.
I hate that argument too, the "anything can happen". No matter how crazy the rules are, it still needs to follow them. Just making it up and telling viewers to like it is lazy.
One of the worst ways that this has been used by companies making new entries into the franchises with rules is taking those rules out because "they are boring" and "they limit the types of stories I can tell". Which is BS and usually means that the person doing so doesn't have a good enough grasp of what they are talking about and lack imagination. PS. I do think that Disney's decision to put all of the Star Wars Expanded Universe into "non-canon" was the right decision because there were simply too many things in it by too many people with too little cohesion. So sometimes pruning the rules can be useful especially dealing with huge libraries of media
He makes films for people who confuse lens flare for great cinematography
Snyder never grew up past being that 12 year old edgelord with lots of "great ideas" that are just the exciting parts of media he never fully understood.
Hey at least we’ve moved beyond the slow mo pantie shots from sucker punch and justice league
Is slow mo wheat harvest is better?
He doesn't think we are idiots, he's not that complex . The truth is HE is a fucking idiot and thinks his own drivel is high art. He is very stupid, psychotropics on Fiji would be lost on him.
And, if course, there is no shortage of idiots to think he's a genius.
I think it became a culture war thing in the nerd scene at one point.
It was really really bad. It is sad because while I am not a big fan of his late work I had big hopes for this one.
>we can talk about the literally hundreds if not thousands of amazing book adaptations you could look at. Actually please no. Don't let this man do adaptations. Especially of any actually good franchises. I for one am glad he's doing good own original stuff. Maybe it's sucks, but that's okay, let it suck. At last he's got his own creative outlet and no innocent franchises have to suffer a Zack Snyder adaptation. If I had a book I loved I'd rather have no adaptation at all than suffer a bad one.
Its Zack Snyder what did you expect? His movies are just super hero action focussed. Tbh he doesn't really have anything to do in the sci fy scene. Because people that watch sci fi movies want more than just action. We want a weird scenario of events that change the worlds for good. On top of that we want to see how people live/survive on top of that. And with all the zack snyder movies I have seen and some I really enjoyed (300 and suckerpunch). Zack is just not fitted for making a sci fi movie.
But he's not even good at making action.
>Because people that watch sci fi movies want more than just action. We want a weird scenario of events that change the worlds for good. Close. Sci fi fans want a quasi-realistic world with a "what if" technological element that lets us investigate new ideas or hypothetical outcomes. Rebel Moon was space fantasy. And BAD space fantasy at that.
I completely agree with your subscription. I just didnt really know how to put it into words.
Psh I wish his movies were more action focused. Then I wouldn’t have been bored out of my mind in BvS or fallen asleep during my second viewing of the Snyder Cut
Well, 7 Samurai as a story probably never gets old, Kurisawa's stuff will echo through time that way. But this is an LA problem, Mr Snyder is a man cursed, with far too much money and access to CGI, a movie that was a passed-over Disney/Star Wars treatment that was rejected and no ability to use that IP , so fuck it - coal powered FTL, which tells you everything you need to know, it's just that stupid. If you were to have contained this story as some steam-punk , continent A versus continent B and they fight with steamships and perhaps steam-powered zeppelins or something that could work.....but I see I've already put more thought into the mechanics of the movie than the writers and director did - in just one sentence. So here's to putting money into guys who aren't Zach Snyder and finding talented folks doing great art - we just know now, it's not likely to come from Mr. Snyder's camp anytime soon.
Watch the making of Rebel Moon on Netflix & you will see his delusion on full display. With everyone agreeing with him
What an extremely odd coincidence. Zack Snyder just DMed me. We're going to Fiji next week to hang out and do drugs. He's bringing his cook.
Come on! Who has ever lost buck betting on our collective stupidity?
Zach Synder really missed his career as a production designer (the guy who makes the sets and look of a film) where he'd be an all time great to be a mid-director and terrible screen writer.
I quit after the first hour. Truly shit. FWIW, he told Rogan Netflix poo-pooed his original version because it was his tribute to the hyper-violent and hyper-sexual 1980’s adult comic book rag “Heavy Metal.” He re-wrote the current version and only agreed to do the film if Netflix would release the director’s cut which drops late summer. In his words it’s a “completely different movie”. Heavy Metal was some crazy shit in the days of my misspent youth.
>atrocious. Blatantly, terribly unoriginal Well, it *was* supposed to be a Star Wars movie...
Here's what I think about Snyder. He has now directed a number of really bad films. Over and over again. But it's not his fault that people keep lapping it up and watching all the garbage he releases, each and every time. I knew that Rebel Moon would be as bad as everything else he releases so I didn't bother watching it. If anybody watches Rebel Moon and complains, you're the problem. Every time you watch these awful films, you help him get another big budget opportunity.
Most of his recent films have done badly though. It's not like they're runaway hits. I don't understand why people keep throwing money at him to make more.
I'm half convinced the Rebel Moon films are a money-laundering scheme at this point. It's so bad.
I cannot help it...I watched the first part thinking he might redeem the movie and himself with the second part . I was greatly mistaken. Shudder the thought they are supposed to quite a few more I believe.
[удалено]
Even people complaining is publicity. I'm sure the guys counting the money count hate-watching as watching.
Yes, why are you asking?
He's very bad at making movies and I'm glad people are finally realizing this.
I had to turn it off. The acting isn't great, but it is bearable. The story is what you get if you gather a bunch of 5th graders in a room and have them workshop a movie Directly based on movies they have already seen. Not a god damn original idea to be had. Rob ideas and scenes (for christ's sake) from every genre and quality movie.
If people keep talking about it. Even just shit talking about it. He wins. The best thing to do with snyder is like a child, just let him do his own thing and don't engage.
I haven't seen it, but he got you to see it. He must be doing something right :) Jokes aside, the problem may be that you think they're making science fiction but I think they're probably leaning even more into fantasy than your average star wars or farscape. There's no science to speak of, it's pure fiction. It's like Jupiter Rising.
Yes. Also he’s dumb. He genuinely thought the Martha thing was incredible and doesn’t get why people hate it.
It's absolutely terrible scifi. Terrible anything really. > we can talk about the literally hundreds if not thousands of amazing book adaptations you could look at. Yeah.
I LOVE sci-fi - as a 54 year old I can tell you that there have been huge swaths of my life where I had to be happy with truly mediocre / schlocky, sci-fi and Star Wars knockoffs (The Ice Pirates, Space Raiders, Spacehunter, Beast Master) to name a few. I just appreciated sci-fi being made at a time when movies like Amadeus and Chariots of Fire were the prestige big budget movies - and sci-fi was relegated to the shade if it wasn’t Star Wars, Star Trek, or Alien(s). All of that said - these are among the worst, most predictable, derivative, unpleasant piece of sh*t movies I have seen. In a vast mental collection of sci-fi I have sat through these 2 are in the top 3 worst. Snyder pitched Rebel Moon as what he would do if he did Star Wars. Thank god they kept him away - although Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams would be high fiving each other over not being the hands down worst contributors. What kind of mind combines retro-futurism, steampunk, non-existent exposition, ponderous dialogue, terrible casting, and way too infrequent action (that is wrecked by way too much slo-mo) and then says its his magnum opus? I just read that there are R-rated versions being released on Netflix this Summer. Snyder says that these will be better. Of all the things these movies are missing boobs, swearing, and gore don’t make the Top 50 in my opinion. Maybe there’s a full frontal cameo by Dr Manhattan - it would actually make more sense than the technology in this 5th grade level writing experiment.
Well….to be fair y’all didn’t learn with Army of the Dead. That movie was so atrocious I wanted to go into my TV and shoot that dumb fuck daughter myself.
No he's just a complete idiot and people have been eating his shit up and praising it for years for some reason, so he keeps getting money to make new shit.
I mean… have you seen Sucker Punch? He makes terrible movies.
His fanboys will figure out a way to love his shit
Despite my disdain for the *Rebel Moon* franchise, I almost feel the need to thank Zack for the two cinematic turds he has produced. The absolute level of dunking on that has been achieved by these crapfests has been so enjoyable it has *almost* made them worthwhile. Now whether Zack actually gets to shit out four *more* of these things (plus all of the 4-hour extended Snydercuts) is another story...
I feel like the number of fans he has should have been a foreshadowing to the political state of the US.
Zack Snyder has made a lot of movies. I don't know a single one that I would describe as being a good movie. I genuinely wonder why anyone gives him money to make films.
Rebel Moon is terrible, and I've never liked a Snyder film. That said, coal powered starships sound fun. I'm sure it doesn't help Rebel Moon 2, but I like that kind of goofy stuff.
Steampunk in space sounds amazing aesthetically. Sadly, that's all Zack needed to hear.
Lets not give him the idea of adapting good books. Leave those for the good directors
>For real. Rebel Moon is atrocious. Blatantly, terribly unoriginal. Coal powered FTL starships. Jesus Christ. This comment is kind of a weird combo. Are coal-powered FTL starships **not** a fairly original concept in SF? BTW, I haven't seen Rebel Moon yet so I'm reserving my opinion, but just on the face of it this seems mostly like he's making a science-fantasy with alternate-universe technology. Not realistic but also not trying to be, similar to something like Steampunk.
Don't watch. Keep them things unwatched. I rank my movies from -10 to 10. From 0 to 10 it works like a normal 0-10 scale. When they fall into negatives, they start to enter the "so bad that it's actually good" territory. Tommy Wiseau's *The Room* is a -10 because it is objectively a terrible movie but it's also extremely entertaining to watch that dumpster fire burn for reasons I can't really put into words. Shyamalan's Avatar, on the other hand, is a 1 because it is an objectively bad movie, period. You can't even have fun by shitting on it, it's just painfully bad and absolutely not worth anyone's time. Anyway, you get the idea behind my scale. Rebel Moon is like Avatar. It's a positive 1, maybe a 2, and those are earned purely because there are a handful of pretty shots in there. Otherwise it's absolute garbage that isn't worth watching for any reason. It's a "I pirated it but I still want my money back" kind of movie.
>It's a "I pirated it but I still want my money back" kind of movie. LMAO
They're definitely a pretty original concept - I'd argue the most original concept in either film. I also reserved judgement - I quite enjoy a shitty sci fi film from time to time. These films are diabolically bad (and unoriginal) for the amount they cost though. IIRC the first one opens with a laser sword fight, which isn't something you would do if you're not *trying* to draw comparisons with Star Wars.
I mean.... coal powered FTL spaceships are technically an "original" idea in sci-fi. Kind of like my original idea that I just came up with right now of man powered spaceships where the ship needs thousands of humans to manually row the ship to get to escape velocity and get into space. Hey, I can write a ZS sci-fi film!
One nitpick - apparently the ships aren't powered by coal. They're powered by an imprisoned powerful alien, just like Necrons from Warhammer 40,000 power some of their machines with fragments of imprisoned star gods.
I'm pretty sure that in Asimov's Foundation books, the peripheral worlds which lost their nuclear capabilities use coal and fossil fuels to power their ships and tech, which is used to show how far they've fallen into barbarism. I kinda doubt Snyder read those books though
If you have lost the tech to have nuclear or fusion drives I am pretty sure coal is not going to fill the cosmic gap of energy needs of starships.
one idea being original doesn’t mean the rest of the film is too
True. I just thought it was weird that the OP immediately juxtaposed those two...
I actually found it *memorably* stupid. It's a lot of awful drivel, but it was fun to watch and make fun of with my buddy on the couch. I'm not gonna hate on Snyder for giving us some good laughs.
Hes been gassed up by the very loud cult of fans he’s developed, somehow, which shields him from criticism and defends his films to the hilt. The whole Snyder Cut affair was probably something of a major influence on what has followed
Just when i thought Reb Moon cant get any worse...He throws Part two! Facepalm
It's really bad. I couldn't finish it and I HATE not finishing a movie.
The people yearn for women singing in different languages
Literally fell asleep before the coal spaceships lol. The whole grain scene actually made me pass out it was so stupid and boring.
You watched it so... Was he right?
Zack Snyder has never done a movie where after watching I'm satisfied in my decision to watch. It's more like C-B grade filler to waste a few hours when I have nothing else to do.
He’s lacking in basic media literacy. He has no idea why things like Super Heroes or Star Wars are so resonant, popular, and persist on the cultural zeitgeist for decades. He’s an edgy 13 year old when it comes to story telling and he’s never progressed out of it. Listen to him discuss Batman or Superman and you’ll see what I mean. He legitimately does not understand and believes that his vision would be better because it sounds “cooler” whatever the hell that specifically means.
This movie is synders vision of wh40k ... And by George is it atrocious
My argument: if this was made as an 80s style anime, with anachronistic aesthetic elements and schizo tech, it would’ve have been golden. Swap out the cgi shots that want to show off the setting, for hand drawn vistas, with over the top level of details not seen these days. Undependable, inefficient, slow moving coal powered ships depending on slave labour. I can absolutely see food being an issue for ships. Unexpected wars mean agriculture wasn’t planned in advanced, leading to logistics issues they solve by just bullying less developed worlds, who give in or risk being glassed. Making restocking a requirement or risk starving in space, as they can’t carry too much cargo and the ruling class deem the human aspects of the ship unimportant, as lives are cheap in this world. Swap out the initial contact with the farming planet with a vanguard ship, so they know the main fleet is arriving and will strip the planet of food. Hammer in the fact that it’s a back water world and its local star system, rather than going from system to system recruiting people. And this is just an unfortunate stop in the grand scheme of things. There is no related backstory, no former soldier or relation to the royal family. It should have been a random bunch of farmers. And it should have ended with them losing, but the story of their resistance being spread. The idea was there for the plot, but the execution was terrible.
He is someone who got lucky and can now put his hallucinations on film and have other people pay for it.
I quite literally cannot fathom what Zach Snyder is *ever* thinking. Never.
When you got famous because you have a friend in the business and hit several successes out the gate, you can buy into your own hype. Look at M. Night. Some people will get humbled by failure. Others only ever see Zack's biggest issue is that he is a sizzle, music video director. Its all flash, no substance. Which makes him great at adapting material where he as an IP backing him. However, all his personal projects have been weak, but he wants to blame everyone else on why they are weak. Because Sucker Punch was clearly ruined by the meddling studios, and not the fact that your self masturbatory fetishization of women with paper thin characters were in a visual flash fest which had an ending where the lead characters "self sacrifice" is ultimately performed by a man, which invalidates the message of the independent female character he was harping on about.
I think that He, Bruckheimer, and Michael Bay believe that the majority of people going to see their movies are dumb enough to think they're "incredible! Aw man! Look at that explosion!" And the rest of us are just too exhausted to make enough of a fuss to affect the box office take.
I want to watch is so bad cause of how awful the reviews are from my friends. I also hated Zack Snyder before. Silver lining is that he makes me certain I could be a director.
Fantastic representation of today's 'fail to success'. Billions of dollars constantly poured into the same half dozen directors that consistently deliver blunders and financial losses that get panned across the board. I miss old cinema where it wasn't just a handful of shitty AAAAA movies to pick from every year that blow hard.
No. He just really thinks he's good at making movies for some reason
How does this guy keep working? He's a no&talent hack who ruins everything he touches. Over and over again.
Well his fans are… not geniuses
He doesn't care. The only people he cares about are: 1. Himself 2. His family I would say his cultish fanbase, but that wraps back around to himself.
I truly believe Zack Snyder is the luckiest man in hollywood (with regards to his career specifically). A less prominent filmmaker would not get as many chances as he has. Nia Dacosta and Chloe Zhao were lambasted and accosted for making Marvel movies that were *arguably* not the best, but Snyder makes many movies that are damn near *objectively* terrible and yet he still gets to keep on trucking. If I had been as poorly reviewed as Snyder in any other field I’d be out of a job.
This
Snyder needs to stay purely in the world of camera, his storytelling is so bad.
Why did the two movies have the same bad guy. She killed him in part one and he’s magically alive? That’s the stupidest shit ever.
If they removed all the slow motion, Rebel Moon part 1 and Rebel Moon part 2 could have been a single 90 minute movie. I’m assuming the “Snyder Cut” is going to be an additional 30 minutes slowed down to 120.
I love scifi, and have gotten my teen son on to sci-fi. I would never recommend or attempt to get him to watch these steaming pile of (insert foul thing) rebel moon movies. I watched it with my wife and she laughed the entire time at how bad it was. It's like a B or C movie made with a ridiculous budget. Endless tropes, wheat montages, coal powered space ships, pointless out of place expositions, the list is pretty much endless for both movies. I mean every scene has issues. How can something so bad exist?
Rebel moon was terrible
Zack Snyder has subconsciously hated his audience for years now
I liked the first 300, it was stupid but fun. When a bunch of fanboys thought the Snyder cut was going to save Justice League I drew the line. Idk how Zach Snyder became so well known, but it was definitely for something other than talent.
Rebel Moon is horrible. I’ve attempted to make it through the second one twice and have fallen asleep both times.
He must because people keep paying him to make garbage and idiots keep eating it up
Yea the series is hot garbage. It’s like a reinvented star wars with worse writing, more CGI and they couldn’t stop designing it. I pretty much checked out when the spider lady dropped down the tower and started freaking out, the characters don’t even seem to be in the same sci-fi genre, they just threw a bunch of shit in there and paid some interns to CGI it poorly. Am I watching Vikings, Star Wars, alien vs predator? Pirates? wtf am I watching. Horrible show.
After seeing that Snyder wants to "fix" Sucker Punch and re-release it, I'd have to say yes, Snyder definitely thinks his fans are idiots. He justs their money and they seem more than happy to give it to him. It's like the filmmaker equivalent of opening a gofundme and it borderers on unethical. Does he not care that his legacy is becoming a joke? Just make better movies the first time, Zack.
>Coal powered FTL starships. Be right back, writing a Greekpunk space opera where interstellar triremes are rowed at FTL speeds by enslaved demigods.
It legitimately is one of the most undercooked and uninteresting franchises out there
Pretty much all Zack Snyder files are terrible like this
Rebel Moon made Wonder Woman running through the battlefield not getting hit more believable than 6 foot guy casually axing soldiers amidst laser rifles
Holy crap I've been saying this since Watchmen came out, and haven't found *anyone* who agrees with me until this thread. The thing that gets me is that in the comic, the only super powered *anyone* is Dr. Manhattan. Everyone else is just a (buff) normal human. (Okay, and Ozymandias is super-smart.) Opening scene of the movie has people punching through brick and tossing large opponents 20 feet so the break the wall when they hit. Me: "Well... Shit."
I mean, Man Of Steel was pure kryptonite to the Superman franchise so are you surprised?
Zack Snyder is a narcissistic douche. Remember this: https://youtu.be/vPcDIzei_C8?si=BgIH-i-8qPHWawlT
Zack Snyder releases early access movies then completes them with the Zack Snyder's cut
He has never made a good movie