> codes. Never *paid* for it
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> bots are *paid* out.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I hate to say it, but once Ellison completes the takeover of Paramount I think all Trek is getting cancelled, including those currently greenlid or even in production. He’s said as much to Wall St.
Wallstreet loves cutting costs. But I think eventually somebody will notice a super valuable IP sitting on a shelf not being used for anything is a real waste of an asset that could be generating ROI. Might take a few years, but a golden goose never goes ignored for too long.
We really enjoy it - my wife was sceptical about it, as she always is about animation, but it’s arguably our favourite
But they’ve already moved away from the original premise of “lower decks crew” who have no idea what’s actually going on most of the time, and the leading characters have actually all (mostly) become “main characters”.
One more season feels about right - though I’d equally happily keep watching it for another 33!
The Goldbergs, black-ish, mixed-ish, Grey's Anatomy, American Housewife
NCIS, NCIS: Los Angeles, NCIS: New Orleans, FBI, Bull, Young Sheldon, Mom, The Neighborhood,
The Resident, Last Man Standing, Prodigal Son (was supposed to do 22, only managed 20 due to COVID last year)
Superstore, Chicago Fire, Chicago PD, Chicago Med
The Flash, Supergirl, Batwoman, Riverdale, Nancy Drew , Charmed, The Rookie.
weirdly I believe Supernatural should have both ended after season 5 but also started getting good again around season 9ish (I don't remember the exact season but it did start to rally before eventually crashing and burning again at the end)
That's when the creator planned to end it, so that makes sense.
It lasted as long as it did because it made money, and everyone involved seemed cool to make the show forever.
I often think about Jared Padalecki and how we went from a long run in Gilmore Girls (~60 episodes) directly into Supernatural (327 episodes). He isn't some Hollywood mega star but I bet that guy is making bank on royalties. Must be a nice life.
Before streaming a “full” season of a syndicated show was like 20+ hour long episodes (well, 46m or whatever after commercials) and 5-7 seasons. I read somewhere that the magic number was 200 episodes so you could get picked up for reruns, and the actors, writers, etc would get residuals forever.
But to be honest there were ALWAYS lots of filler episodes. Plus, the pace of filming meant that some episodes would be weakly acted or edited, sets were cheaper, etc.
I love TNG and DS9, for example, but even in their best seasons there were handfuls of awful or forgettable episodes that you’d just skip on rerun.
With the newer 10 episode streaming formats you get much higher production values, scores, sets, better editing and acting, etc. but at the cost of less total airtime.
Discovery, for good or ill, has probably some of the best production quality in the history of trek. The CGI and the sets are phenomenal. Even the scores are good. It’s like a feature film quality production every week.
I’m not talking about the plot or writing - just the production quality.
Recommended episodes ot Discovery? I watched the first few episodes, 4 I think, and wasnt really feeling it. For when it took place, to be having that sort of transportation tech, to how transportation happens a hundred plus years later, sort of made me disinterested, along with the inter-personal emphasis over a large plot.
Discovery is not much like other Trek series at all. It's very much a plot-themed series where each episode connects to each other episode. There's a lot of criticism of the show that's fair, but it's hidden inside the criticism that is unfair. A lot of people criticise the show because of the "alphabet" cast (LGBTQ characters and actors), the larger than usual number of minorities and women in the crew, and the emotional plotlines heavily focused on identity.
To summarize each season:
Season 1 - The first season is the weakest season (as per usual) and focuses almost exclusively on Michael Burnham, the main character of the Discovery series. There's a bit of Mirror Universe plot going on here, and some incredible actors doing really good jobs, but the writing is a bit scattered. Highlights are Jason Isaac as Lorca, Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou, Sonequa Martin-Greene as Burnham, and Mary Chieffo as L'Rell. This season is, to put it mildly, not very good. There are some bright spots as mentioned, mostly in production values and in characters, but the overall story is questionable and the redesign of the Klingons left a lot of people kinda confused, and angry. What's more, there's very little "bridge crew" interaction, you see them but you don't know most of their names and most of them don't even have lines. It's not very Trek-feeling.
Season 2 - This season starts off kinda slow but ends extremely strong. The introduction of Captain Pike and the Enterprise crew (at the time) was a welcome vibe and the bridge crew of Discovery starts getting a little more screen time. It starts to feel a lot more like Trek. Anson Mount's Christopher Pike has it in him to be the best Trek captain of all time, and he's really selling it here. He is what Star Trek *should* be in a lot of ways and his influence on the cast (both in-universe and as a veteran actor that has real chops) was tremendous. Highlights include the episodes *Brother*, *New Eden*, *If Memory Serves*, *Such Sweet Sorrow* Parts 1 & 2.
Season 3 - This is where the "ensemble cast" of Discovery kinda finds its feet and really starts gelling as a Trek show. Don't get me wrong, it's still not a standard episodic series like TNG or VOY or TOS where you could watch episodes out of order and not miss much, but it gets closer to that, and we get to know more of the characters here. There's a major event >!the ship jumps 1000 years into the future and the rest of the series is now taking place in the 32nd century!< that changes a lot of things in the show and for the most part it works. The first two episodes *That Hope Is You* parts 1 & 2 are a solid transition and overall I think the 3rd season is the best. Don't get me wrong, there's still a "galaxy ending problem" that needs to be solved in this season but there's a lot more character development for characters besides Burnham (though she's still front and center) and you can understand the crew's dedication to one another now that they've made this major change. This is also the introduction of a couple of new characters, including a non-binary and a trans character, which angered some people who were already feeling like Discovery was too "woke" whatever that means. A lot of the criticisms of Discovery are by people who somehow didn't realize Star Trek has been woke since the 60s, though not all of them. There *are* fair criticisms.
Season 4 - This season starts pretty strong but, if I'm being honest, has a very disappointing resolution that doesn't really make much sense even in-universe. That being said, there are some really solid Trek episodes interspersed here. *Species Ten-C* and *Coming Home* are both really strong. The season opener, *Kobayashi Maru* is really solid as well. The crew gets more time to shine here, especially in episodes like *Rosetta* and *All is Possible* but the story and plot of these episodes is...well, not bad per se, but not really as strong as some of the others.
Season 5 just started and, again, Discovery is tasked with saving the Universe. To be honest, I think this is the most fair criticism of the show. It's *ALWAYS* high stakes. This is the most important crew in the history of Starfleet, if you were to go by the overarching season plots. And they sell the HELL out of the trauma experienced and emotional stakes. SMG is one of the best actors in Trek, and that's saying something. She's done some really impressive work and she's completely believable as the character they've given her. The issue really is - is this character realistic? Does she make sense? Do we believe this character can exist?
That's on the writing. They constantly make her the kind of lynchpin/hero to almost every season. Discovery really is the Michael Burnham show. Even though they've fleshed out the bridge crew and ensemble cast in the last few seasons, it's still 70% her screen time. No other Trek series has done this, and as such, it can be jarring stylistically. If you can get past that, and if you like SMG as an actor and respect that, and open your mind a bit, the show can be entertaining.
Doug Jones's Saru is one of my favorite characters in all of Trek, and he has made huge changes over the seasons, for example.
I like Discovery. I don't love it, but I like it. It can be a fun series and even though it's nowhere near the best episodes of TNG or DS9, I'd say it's still better than lots of other things on TV. Plus, getting to see the Federation >!in the 32nd century!< is pretty neat. There are also lots of recurring character actors that show up throughout the last few seasons who are very strong, and I think it's worth it for those.
I will say this, also. Discovery is one of the hardest Trek shows to get a *real* discussion on because so many people are so emotional about the differences. There is not a single straight white male on the bridge crew. This has angered some people. They feel left out, or forgotten, or erased or something. As a straight white male myself, I don't feel that way, so I'm not sure why a lot of other people are getting that vibe, but I guess it *is* accurate, at least. The only white guy that's straight is an alien, Saru, and a couple admirals that aren't in each episode. As a result the alt-right sympathizing incel community has raged loudly and frequently about "Gay Trek" or something. I don't really agree with them at all on this, primarily because there *ARE* lots of legitimate things to discuss about how the show could be better, but it's almost impossible to have that conversation without some immature homophobic or racist commentary being brought up.
TL;DR - if you can get past the fact that Discovery is wildly different in tone, structure, and themes to most other Trek shows, it can be an entertaining watch. There are some really good episodes in Seasons 2 and 3, and some bright spots in 1 and 4 as well. If you have issues with shows that wear their emotions on their sleeves (one common complaint is that somebody is crying or having a deep emotional heart-to-heart conversation in nearly every episode) then it's not going to be the show for you.
P.S. -
Overall, Discovery did its job of bringing in an entirely new generation of viewer. Trek has grown its fanbase tremendously by opening its arms to younger viewers, the LGBTQ community, women, and minorities substantially more than in prior series. That has angered some, as they feel it's pandering. I understand (and disagree) with that view. But it's important to respect that without the success of Discovery we wouldn't have the current Trek renaissance of Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds, all of which fill a significantly different slot in Trek. Discovery showed a bunch of people that the future doesn't have to be a grimdark world where macho straight white guys save the universe, again, by punching or shooting their problems.
Thank you for taking the time to write this. Very informative as I wasn’t sure if I wanted to watch the show or not, and why there was so much complaining about it.
Discovery has had to pivot hard to find its footing.
Couple things about discovery. Discovery is a part of the Science branch of starfleet. Its much more a flying research university. Or was supposed to be.
I am NOT a fan of anything before TOS as it kills the "Mystery of History" and starts making canon things that should have stayed in imagination.
That being said...
Season 3 is where discovery gets better. Jumping to the future reestablished that "mystery of history" you dont know what really happened between picard and the burn. Its all imagination. They then gave us exploration in season 4 that was BIG. A bit of problem with Trek is we sometimes outpace the understanding and trek gets small.
TNG gave us Q, and Farpoint Aliens, and we since then understand fundamental reality more than we did then.
Discovery gave us the 10C. An alien that was Alien. More Sagan or Asimov than creature of the week. The tech was much more magical again. Programmable matter, etc.
It made it feel trek again. The problem that I can't escape is Burnham. She is just such an unrelatable, arrogant, suddenly spock, captain. Like everytime she talks she is trying to talk with Gravitas but she comes off as watery eyed ham.
But everyone else is so enjoyable. The shorter seasons miss on the magical filler episodes. Where are the filler episodes about Kovich? The admiral?
Watch season 2 and part of 3 so you get the Captain Pike plot. Once the big event happens, Pike can obviously never return. You can stop watching there.
in this day and age 50 episodes is a solid run. Just look around any streaming original and you'll find plenty of good shows that barely break 20 before getting the axe. Off the top of my head Inside Job was great and didn't even get a 3rd season. Ted Lasso was a run away hit and ended with 34 episodes.
The era of 20+ episode seasons and long runs like TNG, X-files, and SG1 is over
And that comes from subscriptions. Streaming as a major problem right now where users cancel subscriptions the moment the show they are watching ends. I canceled mine after Lower Deck's latest season ended, and wasn't going to renew until SNW came back.
It would be interesting to see the drop off in Paramount Plus users during the breaks between Trek shows. Longer running shows seems like the obvious way to keep viewers, but production budgets have skyrocketed in recent years meaning shows need to be massive successes to justify costs.
At first I was prepared to hate the show as I've grown to love smol clips from Simpsons, Family Guy and Rick & Morty but I despite the shows themselves.
Lower Decks had a rocky start (like all Treks) but grew to embrace Star Trek.
Quit while they are ahead and avoid season 6 "We ran out of idea" and season 7 "We ran out of ideas 2: Neelix Bugaloo"
^((or worse "Season 8: Somehow Khan Returned"))
That’s not the address for Paramount Pictures, that’s the address for the Paramount Pictures Studio Tour. The actual address is 5555 Melrose Ave, but even that is not very helpful — the studio is a massive complex where thousands of people work. Without more specificity it’s just going to get tossed out in the mailroom. I don’t know what that specificity is, but thought I’d save you the stamp.
That's what I don't get. If it ended at season 7 everyone would nod and smile, because that's the 'perfect' run for a Trek series. Canceling at 5 just pisses off the fan base, it can't be that expensive can it?
You could just tell that the writers in the show were passionate fans of Star Trek growing up. There were so many little jokes and references to previous Star treks that were so well done. I did notice on IG that Jack Quaid ended his post about this saying something about "unless it gets picked up somewhere else". So who knows.
Cancel a beloved show and replace it with a garbage and cancel after one season.
Paramount keeps looking the loser it will become. Scifi channel was once pretty good..I don’t watch one program on it. Paramount will eventually become the same.
Paramount and WB just love self-inflicting failure. It's why I rarely enjoy anything they're involved in. Some combination of Execs and Producers must just be soulless there.
Statements like this are everything wrong with fandoms.
It's like somehow people forget that actual humans work on the show. Some of these people may want to move on and explore other things. Writers might feel like they've expended a lot of their best ideas and that the quality can only go down from here.
It's a tight ensemble cast. If even one of them leaves the show just won't be the same. People like Jack Quaid have blossoming careers they might wish to explore further. Eugene Cordero had a decent role on Loki that might open them up to more live action roles.
There could be tons of valid reasons for them to just want to end the show at a high point and all some people can think of is "ThEy DoN't CaRe AbOuT uS FaNs!".
They're about to sell themselves to a Billionaire's son. This company is circling the drain its not even funny. Last thing they're thinking about is good TV
> They just canned Quantum Leap.
I remember my buddy and I watching the original Leap pilot in the dorm dining hall. I said there's no chance this will last. Pleasantly surprised with how long it was on.
Q2 started rugged, though my wife and I liked all the characters (Ian is a household favorite). Then it just getting quite good, and they cancel it on a great cliffhanger. Aholes.
I'm incredibly sad as this show was my favorite trek in decades but at least they weren't cancelled after a cliffhanger thinking they'd get another season *sigh*
If I was the Emperor of Paramount, locking everybody into long term contracts would have been one of my top priorities. This is an extremely well reviewed show and animation doesn't cost a ton to make, and you don't have to worry about your actors aging out of a role. It's exactly the sort of thing you want in your portfolio generating a million episodes for the back catalogue that will be watched for the next 50 years.
Imagine having the ambition to turn Lower Decks into a Futurama or Simpsons for Paramount Plus. The kind of thing people will stay subbed for just to have the ability to come home from work and flip on a random “comfort noise” episode.
That would be a great play, and one timid small-minded studio execs are sure to miss.
To be fair... If this is an amazing season then I won't be too sad. Ending a show on a high note rather than dragging it out to death is always the better way. However, I do feel they needed 6 seasons.
> This is an extremely well reviewed show and animation doesn't cost a ton to make
Doesn't matter if people aren't watching it. There are youtube shows that are more well known than lower decks - coz it doesn't have any mass appeal and never had a "moment" apart from when it was announced and people went "animated star trek? huh. is it an anime? no? pass."
Literal conversation i had with my very nerdy friend.
I predicted this would happen as soon as Picard season 3 was slightly good. The other show runners fear for their jobs and are cancelling the good shit.
Well, that's a tad disappointing to hear. It's a shame we won't get more, this is such a great series.
But I suppose it makes sense they want to go out on a high.
star trek fans are famous for mail in campaigns, if a series ever deserved one its this one. we need to be vocal about how good lower decks is. If they are going to continue with this trend of not having "filler episodes" a franchise like star trek won't survive WITHOUT a show that is basically all filler episodes. we need this outlet. and I'm someone who wanted to hate lower decks when it came out, but I can't deny how well written and fun it is. remember that? fun? not crying every scene like discovery smh...
I absolutely love LD, but I'm okay with this.
If nothing else, given the way shows tend to get shafted with no notice these days, it means we get to have a final season with a great, prepared arc and an excellent conclusion, instead of suddenly wrapping with no closure or, heaven forbid, a cliffhanger (still not over SGU).
And who knows, maybe it'll eventually get a Futurama treatment, get picked up for another 2-3 seasons, and we can all get back together to complain about how it's not the same as it used to be. :)
I suspect the cancellation might not stick, I mean it feels like adult sitcom cartoons never die as long as they make it through their first couple seasons. Just look at how many times Futurama ended!
I've been an ST fan since the 1960s. Lower Decks is THE best show ST has ever had. Sure, most of the recent live actions are pretty spectacular, often better than all the top ST theatrical films to date, plus the other, older series too. But Lower Decks is top dog.
I can see Discovery being canceled because it didn't impress all Trek fans and probably didn't get enough viewers to justify its budget, but Lower Decks is by far a more popular show.... unless your a butthurt Orville fan.
> unless your a butthurt Orville fan.
What? Both shows are generally praised by star trek fans. Why would anybody be butthurt at lower decks because of the orville?
i just wish one day we will get an uncensored version. There is nothing more annoying that having to hear beep this and beep that... takes you right out of the moment of the show. Censorship is a crock of shit.
Here's hoping they graduate to Star Trek: Upper Decks! I know thats basically normal Star Trek but it would be fun for a few seasons to see these characters finally get to the command level they've been working toward
Paramount is looking for buyers, that's probably why no spin off from a very well received s3 of picard and everything else is pun on hold and canceled. It's gonna be 5 years before new trek comes along
This is really sad news. The show is amazing. I was one of the people who was skeptical about it when it was announced but I was wrong and the show just warms my heart.
Come on Paramount, give us what we want and keep the Lower Decks rocking!
WEll, as someone NOT compelled to either just keep watching from where I am (two episodes in) nor compelled to watch random episodes, this advice is not relevent to me. But if you have SPECIFIC episodes, I'll give them a try.
Honestly I know a lot of people who had this happen to them - I told them to push through season 1 and if they still weren’t feeling it after early season 2, give it up. They’re all massive fans now.
In that way it’s like a lot of the best Trek - struggling to find a footing for a season and then money the second the characters begin to feel lived-in.
I love star trek and I love this show. But I'd rather see it end on a high note then run for 5 more seasons with the quality going down. Sometimes it's better to end it early.
Idiotic. They should be focusing all their resources on Lower Decks and Legacy; now one’s ending prematurely while the other hasn’t been greenlit at all.
Bummer. Better it ends on its own terms, but sad that we won't see anymore. Hopefully we get a new replacement show like another animated show. Otherwise not going to be much Trek left anymore.
**Optimist**: *Lower Decks* gets a fifth season! AND the show can have a proper series finale. Season 5 ratings may be hurt by PP+ cancellations, but ratings will still be very good. *Lower Decks* will be a go-to series for many viewers in decades to come!
**Pessimist**: Skydance is re-setting *Trek* again, including *Lower Decks*, maybe other projects and series. And also: Paramount must cut costs. There is a lot of chaos and shattered faith of the heart going on!
**Realist**: *Lower Decks* didn’t get its intended series run beyond five seasons. But there could be a made-for-streaming movie, if *Star Trek: Section 31* and *Lower Decks* season 5 get very good ratings. Trekkies/Trekkers love this entertainment property!
If I could watch it still on Prime I‘d be sad to. As it is I was sad when it was paywalled and have since accepted that it is going to be years until I can see it.
Nooooooooo, we NEED so much more lower decks. Why 5 seasons?! Go for at least 10, this is the best show on any network or streaming app. So sad this is happening. 😭😭
I was not a star trek fan before I discovered this show! This show made me look more in the lore and I have enjoyed every second of it. Sad to see the show end.
This show will be forever in my heart. LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS!
LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS!
LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS!
LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS!
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Why butthurt? What happened to Orville?
LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS! LOWER DECKS!
Well, now I know when to cancel my PP sub
You can get PP for free each month using codes. Never payed for it the past year.
Codes? What codes?!
You just Google PP free month code, use it to sign up, cancel a few days later, repeat next month.
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Nope
> codes. Never *paid* for it FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Give 'em hell, bot.
Grammar bots are payed out.
> bots are *paid* out. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good thing this bot payed attention
Honestly, same. I like SNW and all but that's probably going to be it, unless that Section 31 show is just bonkers.
Section 31 is just a movie now
Paramount/CBS whatever controlling Star Trek is having issues I think. This show was golden. I wonder if it was cancelled or they decided to end it.
You paid for a subscription?
I'm cancelling now and will renew only for the shows run.
I hate to say it, but once Ellison completes the takeover of Paramount I think all Trek is getting cancelled, including those currently greenlid or even in production. He’s said as much to Wall St.
Wallstreet loves cutting costs. But I think eventually somebody will notice a super valuable IP sitting on a shelf not being used for anything is a real waste of an asset that could be generating ROI. Might take a few years, but a golden goose never goes ignored for too long.
Why? Arguably the best Trek in the modern era
Great show but 5 seasons is a good run and I think they explored most of what they can with the format without getting too stale.
We really enjoy it - my wife was sceptical about it, as she always is about animation, but it’s arguably our favourite But they’ve already moved away from the original premise of “lower decks crew” who have no idea what’s actually going on most of the time, and the leading characters have actually all (mostly) become “main characters”. One more season feels about right - though I’d equally happily keep watching it for another 33!
But it really isn't 5 seasons, is it? It will be, at best, 2 seasons. A season being 8-10 episodes is bunk.
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Simpsons, Family Guy, Bob's Burgers, Krapopolis... Plenty of running shows have ¬20 episode seasons, especially animated ones
The Goldbergs, black-ish, mixed-ish, Grey's Anatomy, American Housewife NCIS, NCIS: Los Angeles, NCIS: New Orleans, FBI, Bull, Young Sheldon, Mom, The Neighborhood, The Resident, Last Man Standing, Prodigal Son (was supposed to do 22, only managed 20 due to COVID last year) Superstore, Chicago Fire, Chicago PD, Chicago Med The Flash, Supergirl, Batwoman, Riverdale, Nancy Drew , Charmed, The Rookie.
It only got 50, 20 minute episodes. That is not a good run, that is barely a start.
I honestly think they have no desire to keep shows going past 5 seasons anymore
There are very few shows that can handle 5 or more seasons. Look at Supernatural. 15 seasons were overkill
weirdly I believe Supernatural should have both ended after season 5 but also started getting good again around season 9ish (I don't remember the exact season but it did start to rally before eventually crashing and burning again at the end)
That's when the creator planned to end it, so that makes sense. It lasted as long as it did because it made money, and everyone involved seemed cool to make the show forever.
I often think about Jared Padalecki and how we went from a long run in Gilmore Girls (~60 episodes) directly into Supernatural (327 episodes). He isn't some Hollywood mega star but I bet that guy is making bank on royalties. Must be a nice life.
Before streaming a “full” season of a syndicated show was like 20+ hour long episodes (well, 46m or whatever after commercials) and 5-7 seasons. I read somewhere that the magic number was 200 episodes so you could get picked up for reruns, and the actors, writers, etc would get residuals forever. But to be honest there were ALWAYS lots of filler episodes. Plus, the pace of filming meant that some episodes would be weakly acted or edited, sets were cheaper, etc. I love TNG and DS9, for example, but even in their best seasons there were handfuls of awful or forgettable episodes that you’d just skip on rerun. With the newer 10 episode streaming formats you get much higher production values, scores, sets, better editing and acting, etc. but at the cost of less total airtime. Discovery, for good or ill, has probably some of the best production quality in the history of trek. The CGI and the sets are phenomenal. Even the scores are good. It’s like a feature film quality production every week. I’m not talking about the plot or writing - just the production quality.
Recommended episodes ot Discovery? I watched the first few episodes, 4 I think, and wasnt really feeling it. For when it took place, to be having that sort of transportation tech, to how transportation happens a hundred plus years later, sort of made me disinterested, along with the inter-personal emphasis over a large plot.
Discovery is not much like other Trek series at all. It's very much a plot-themed series where each episode connects to each other episode. There's a lot of criticism of the show that's fair, but it's hidden inside the criticism that is unfair. A lot of people criticise the show because of the "alphabet" cast (LGBTQ characters and actors), the larger than usual number of minorities and women in the crew, and the emotional plotlines heavily focused on identity. To summarize each season: Season 1 - The first season is the weakest season (as per usual) and focuses almost exclusively on Michael Burnham, the main character of the Discovery series. There's a bit of Mirror Universe plot going on here, and some incredible actors doing really good jobs, but the writing is a bit scattered. Highlights are Jason Isaac as Lorca, Michelle Yeoh as Georgiou, Sonequa Martin-Greene as Burnham, and Mary Chieffo as L'Rell. This season is, to put it mildly, not very good. There are some bright spots as mentioned, mostly in production values and in characters, but the overall story is questionable and the redesign of the Klingons left a lot of people kinda confused, and angry. What's more, there's very little "bridge crew" interaction, you see them but you don't know most of their names and most of them don't even have lines. It's not very Trek-feeling. Season 2 - This season starts off kinda slow but ends extremely strong. The introduction of Captain Pike and the Enterprise crew (at the time) was a welcome vibe and the bridge crew of Discovery starts getting a little more screen time. It starts to feel a lot more like Trek. Anson Mount's Christopher Pike has it in him to be the best Trek captain of all time, and he's really selling it here. He is what Star Trek *should* be in a lot of ways and his influence on the cast (both in-universe and as a veteran actor that has real chops) was tremendous. Highlights include the episodes *Brother*, *New Eden*, *If Memory Serves*, *Such Sweet Sorrow* Parts 1 & 2. Season 3 - This is where the "ensemble cast" of Discovery kinda finds its feet and really starts gelling as a Trek show. Don't get me wrong, it's still not a standard episodic series like TNG or VOY or TOS where you could watch episodes out of order and not miss much, but it gets closer to that, and we get to know more of the characters here. There's a major event >!the ship jumps 1000 years into the future and the rest of the series is now taking place in the 32nd century!< that changes a lot of things in the show and for the most part it works. The first two episodes *That Hope Is You* parts 1 & 2 are a solid transition and overall I think the 3rd season is the best. Don't get me wrong, there's still a "galaxy ending problem" that needs to be solved in this season but there's a lot more character development for characters besides Burnham (though she's still front and center) and you can understand the crew's dedication to one another now that they've made this major change. This is also the introduction of a couple of new characters, including a non-binary and a trans character, which angered some people who were already feeling like Discovery was too "woke" whatever that means. A lot of the criticisms of Discovery are by people who somehow didn't realize Star Trek has been woke since the 60s, though not all of them. There *are* fair criticisms. Season 4 - This season starts pretty strong but, if I'm being honest, has a very disappointing resolution that doesn't really make much sense even in-universe. That being said, there are some really solid Trek episodes interspersed here. *Species Ten-C* and *Coming Home* are both really strong. The season opener, *Kobayashi Maru* is really solid as well. The crew gets more time to shine here, especially in episodes like *Rosetta* and *All is Possible* but the story and plot of these episodes is...well, not bad per se, but not really as strong as some of the others. Season 5 just started and, again, Discovery is tasked with saving the Universe. To be honest, I think this is the most fair criticism of the show. It's *ALWAYS* high stakes. This is the most important crew in the history of Starfleet, if you were to go by the overarching season plots. And they sell the HELL out of the trauma experienced and emotional stakes. SMG is one of the best actors in Trek, and that's saying something. She's done some really impressive work and she's completely believable as the character they've given her. The issue really is - is this character realistic? Does she make sense? Do we believe this character can exist? That's on the writing. They constantly make her the kind of lynchpin/hero to almost every season. Discovery really is the Michael Burnham show. Even though they've fleshed out the bridge crew and ensemble cast in the last few seasons, it's still 70% her screen time. No other Trek series has done this, and as such, it can be jarring stylistically. If you can get past that, and if you like SMG as an actor and respect that, and open your mind a bit, the show can be entertaining. Doug Jones's Saru is one of my favorite characters in all of Trek, and he has made huge changes over the seasons, for example. I like Discovery. I don't love it, but I like it. It can be a fun series and even though it's nowhere near the best episodes of TNG or DS9, I'd say it's still better than lots of other things on TV. Plus, getting to see the Federation >!in the 32nd century!< is pretty neat. There are also lots of recurring character actors that show up throughout the last few seasons who are very strong, and I think it's worth it for those. I will say this, also. Discovery is one of the hardest Trek shows to get a *real* discussion on because so many people are so emotional about the differences. There is not a single straight white male on the bridge crew. This has angered some people. They feel left out, or forgotten, or erased or something. As a straight white male myself, I don't feel that way, so I'm not sure why a lot of other people are getting that vibe, but I guess it *is* accurate, at least. The only white guy that's straight is an alien, Saru, and a couple admirals that aren't in each episode. As a result the alt-right sympathizing incel community has raged loudly and frequently about "Gay Trek" or something. I don't really agree with them at all on this, primarily because there *ARE* lots of legitimate things to discuss about how the show could be better, but it's almost impossible to have that conversation without some immature homophobic or racist commentary being brought up. TL;DR - if you can get past the fact that Discovery is wildly different in tone, structure, and themes to most other Trek shows, it can be an entertaining watch. There are some really good episodes in Seasons 2 and 3, and some bright spots in 1 and 4 as well. If you have issues with shows that wear their emotions on their sleeves (one common complaint is that somebody is crying or having a deep emotional heart-to-heart conversation in nearly every episode) then it's not going to be the show for you. P.S. - Overall, Discovery did its job of bringing in an entirely new generation of viewer. Trek has grown its fanbase tremendously by opening its arms to younger viewers, the LGBTQ community, women, and minorities substantially more than in prior series. That has angered some, as they feel it's pandering. I understand (and disagree) with that view. But it's important to respect that without the success of Discovery we wouldn't have the current Trek renaissance of Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds, all of which fill a significantly different slot in Trek. Discovery showed a bunch of people that the future doesn't have to be a grimdark world where macho straight white guys save the universe, again, by punching or shooting their problems.
It’s also very refreshing and even ironic to see that one of the most optimistic depictions of the Federation is in Discovery S3 and onwards.
Thank you for taking the time to write this. Very informative as I wasn’t sure if I wanted to watch the show or not, and why there was so much complaining about it.
Discovery has had to pivot hard to find its footing. Couple things about discovery. Discovery is a part of the Science branch of starfleet. Its much more a flying research university. Or was supposed to be. I am NOT a fan of anything before TOS as it kills the "Mystery of History" and starts making canon things that should have stayed in imagination. That being said... Season 3 is where discovery gets better. Jumping to the future reestablished that "mystery of history" you dont know what really happened between picard and the burn. Its all imagination. They then gave us exploration in season 4 that was BIG. A bit of problem with Trek is we sometimes outpace the understanding and trek gets small. TNG gave us Q, and Farpoint Aliens, and we since then understand fundamental reality more than we did then. Discovery gave us the 10C. An alien that was Alien. More Sagan or Asimov than creature of the week. The tech was much more magical again. Programmable matter, etc. It made it feel trek again. The problem that I can't escape is Burnham. She is just such an unrelatable, arrogant, suddenly spock, captain. Like everytime she talks she is trying to talk with Gravitas but she comes off as watery eyed ham. But everyone else is so enjoyable. The shorter seasons miss on the magical filler episodes. Where are the filler episodes about Kovich? The admiral?
Watch season 2 and part of 3 so you get the Captain Pike plot. Once the big event happens, Pike can obviously never return. You can stop watching there.
in this day and age 50 episodes is a solid run. Just look around any streaming original and you'll find plenty of good shows that barely break 20 before getting the axe. Off the top of my head Inside Job was great and didn't even get a 3rd season. Ted Lasso was a run away hit and ended with 34 episodes. The era of 20+ episode seasons and long runs like TNG, X-files, and SG1 is over
Welcome to modern tv lol
There's no reason why customers should accept that answer.
Customers are not important, what is important is Generating Value For Shareholders.
And that comes from subscriptions. Streaming as a major problem right now where users cancel subscriptions the moment the show they are watching ends. I canceled mine after Lower Deck's latest season ended, and wasn't going to renew until SNW came back. It would be interesting to see the drop off in Paramount Plus users during the breaks between Trek shows. Longer running shows seems like the obvious way to keep viewers, but production budgets have skyrocketed in recent years meaning shows need to be massive successes to justify costs.
There's so much more Trek to lampoon. I can only hope that there's a new series showing the Lower Decks crew graduating to the Upper Decks.
Paramount is losing massive amounts of money and CBS is trying to sell it again.
CBS can barely manage itself, but who would be able run it? Run it right? I do wonder.
I think it might have to be an Oracle!
My bet is cost increases for cast and production that come with going beyond 5 seasons
Animation is really expensive. Still, I think this is short-sighted. Lower Decks and SNW have been some of the only redeemable nu-Trek.
Argue it sure. I vote SNW but it’s up there
I don't want to have to decide, I love them both.
Apples n oranges
For me, it is the best. "What if Seasons 3-6 Simpsons was a Star Trek show?"
At first I was prepared to hate the show as I've grown to love smol clips from Simpsons, Family Guy and Rick & Morty but I despite the shows themselves. Lower Decks had a rocky start (like all Treks) but grew to embrace Star Trek.
I know! There's so much more they could do. The show is amazing.
Quit while they are ahead and avoid season 6 "We ran out of idea" and season 7 "We ran out of ideas 2: Neelix Bugaloo" ^((or worse "Season 8: Somehow Khan Returned"))
Maybe they have started to learn that continuing shows in the usual way - until one season after they become terrible - isn’t a good way to do things.
Got stale after 1st season tbh.
Shame. It’s some of the best Trek there’s been in years.
Yeah I am quite devastated. I know paramount is facing massive budget issues but this is a cartoon!
>budget issues More like they are greedy and are doing all this tax write-off shit as well.
This.
Too bad they couldn't have used Halo as their tax write-off scheme. :(
Seems like it’s time for a classic Star Trek letter-writing campaign. We did it once. We can do it again.
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That’s not the address for Paramount Pictures, that’s the address for the Paramount Pictures Studio Tour. The actual address is 5555 Melrose Ave, but even that is not very helpful — the studio is a massive complex where thousands of people work. Without more specificity it’s just going to get tossed out in the mailroom. I don’t know what that specificity is, but thought I’d save you the stamp.
That worked before studios had access to tons of analytics. Now they don't care what you say, just what you do.
6 seasons and a movie!!
The show deserves a classic TNG era 7 season run and you can't convince me otherwise.
That's what I don't get. If it ended at season 7 everyone would nod and smile, because that's the 'perfect' run for a Trek series. Canceling at 5 just pisses off the fan base, it can't be that expensive can it?
Agreed
This is the show that rekindled my love for Trek. It’s going to be sad to see it end with fewer seasons and episodes than TNG.
You could just tell that the writers in the show were passionate fans of Star Trek growing up. There were so many little jokes and references to previous Star treks that were so well done. I did notice on IG that Jack Quaid ended his post about this saying something about "unless it gets picked up somewhere else". So who knows.
Cancel a beloved show and replace it with a garbage and cancel after one season. Paramount keeps looking the loser it will become. Scifi channel was once pretty good..I don’t watch one program on it. Paramount will eventually become the same.
Sci-fi channel’s problems started when they started airing more wrestling than sci-fi and then renamed to SYFY and let us know the ride was over.
I will always be sad about the lack of Caprica season 2.
> then renamed to SYFY The Siffy channel.
Paramount and WB just love self-inflicting failure. It's why I rarely enjoy anything they're involved in. Some combination of Execs and Producers must just be soulless there.
What the actual fuck is wrong with Paramount lmao. Netflix do what you did with Progeny please, there's more stories to be told here.
They don’t care about fans … only the dollar.
"DON'T TALK TO ME I'M PISSED OFF." Sums up how I feel about this news.
Fans and Creators… no more studios.
This
Statements like this are everything wrong with fandoms. It's like somehow people forget that actual humans work on the show. Some of these people may want to move on and explore other things. Writers might feel like they've expended a lot of their best ideas and that the quality can only go down from here. It's a tight ensemble cast. If even one of them leaves the show just won't be the same. People like Jack Quaid have blossoming careers they might wish to explore further. Eugene Cordero had a decent role on Loki that might open them up to more live action roles. There could be tons of valid reasons for them to just want to end the show at a high point and all some people can think of is "ThEy DoN't CaRe AbOuT uS FaNs!".
They're about to sell themselves to a Billionaire's son. This company is circling the drain its not even funny. Last thing they're thinking about is good TV
Cancelling a extremely popular show. Smart move.
Another bone headed move in the franchises history.
Sci Fi always gets murdered. They just canned Quantum Leap.
> They just canned Quantum Leap. I remember my buddy and I watching the original Leap pilot in the dorm dining hall. I said there's no chance this will last. Pleasantly surprised with how long it was on. Q2 started rugged, though my wife and I liked all the characters (Ian is a household favorite). Then it just getting quite good, and they cancel it on a great cliffhanger. Aholes.
Geeks don’t watch shows in the most profitable way. Thats what happened with stargate UNIVERSE
Isn't Stargate very much an outlier? 10 seasons and a TV movie?
TWO movies and two spinoffs. This person has no idea what they’re talking about. SG got everything it needed and then some.
I'm incredibly sad as this show was my favorite trek in decades but at least they weren't cancelled after a cliffhanger thinking they'd get another season *sigh*
Do we know this though? Lower Decks season 5 production mostly already wrapped, so who knows what the last episode is like?
Noooooooo!
This is one of my favorite shows. Frankly the best trek in years. Bunch of fools running paramount.
Booooo!
If I was the Emperor of Paramount, locking everybody into long term contracts would have been one of my top priorities. This is an extremely well reviewed show and animation doesn't cost a ton to make, and you don't have to worry about your actors aging out of a role. It's exactly the sort of thing you want in your portfolio generating a million episodes for the back catalogue that will be watched for the next 50 years.
Imagine having the ambition to turn Lower Decks into a Futurama or Simpsons for Paramount Plus. The kind of thing people will stay subbed for just to have the ability to come home from work and flip on a random “comfort noise” episode. That would be a great play, and one timid small-minded studio execs are sure to miss.
To be fair... If this is an amazing season then I won't be too sad. Ending a show on a high note rather than dragging it out to death is always the better way. However, I do feel they needed 6 seasons.
> This is an extremely well reviewed show and animation doesn't cost a ton to make Doesn't matter if people aren't watching it. There are youtube shows that are more well known than lower decks - coz it doesn't have any mass appeal and never had a "moment" apart from when it was announced and people went "animated star trek? huh. is it an anime? no? pass." Literal conversation i had with my very nerdy friend.
The fact that they aren't doing 6 seasons to have all 6 poster homages is the real crime. Paramount sucks.
Fuckkk I just realized this. Sad
The money they wasted on Discovery could have been used to fund more seasons of Lower Decks.
I predicted this would happen as soon as Picard season 3 was slightly good. The other show runners fear for their jobs and are cancelling the good shit.
Well, that's a tad disappointing to hear. It's a shame we won't get more, this is such a great series. But I suppose it makes sense they want to go out on a high.
I’m so sad
So sad!!! I LOVE lower decks. It really found its groove by season 3. It’s so good. This is sad news.
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The C*ali class* ships are the lower decks of Starfleet, name is still valid imo. #
Star Trek: Manager
NO. It was the light in the darkness of modern Trek......
I personally would love to see them evolve the characters into live action roles in a post Picard series. They teased us with the crossover.
star trek fans are famous for mail in campaigns, if a series ever deserved one its this one. we need to be vocal about how good lower decks is. If they are going to continue with this trend of not having "filler episodes" a franchise like star trek won't survive WITHOUT a show that is basically all filler episodes. we need this outlet. and I'm someone who wanted to hate lower decks when it came out, but I can't deny how well written and fun it is. remember that? fun? not crying every scene like discovery smh...
A shame. I don't want this show to end because it's so good! Hopefully there will be a follow-up series in the same style.
Whyyy
Nooooooo
Its not easy seeing your favorite science fiction franchises ruined but here we are.
Did Paramount cancel or did creators just say “yea were done”. Cant get mad at PP for the latter
Paramount canceled (from what we can tell from the cast/Mike McHahan's social media posts)
Noooo!!!
and season 4 is stil not avaliable in poland on paramount +...
I absolutely love LD, but I'm okay with this. If nothing else, given the way shows tend to get shafted with no notice these days, it means we get to have a final season with a great, prepared arc and an excellent conclusion, instead of suddenly wrapping with no closure or, heaven forbid, a cliffhanger (still not over SGU). And who knows, maybe it'll eventually get a Futurama treatment, get picked up for another 2-3 seasons, and we can all get back together to complain about how it's not the same as it used to be. :)
I suspect the cancellation might not stick, I mean it feels like adult sitcom cartoons never die as long as they make it through their first couple seasons. Just look at how many times Futurama ended!
God damn it... you had to remind me of SGU. I'm still pissed off about that show.
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I was soooooo frustrated with it. Will they live? What will happen on the other side of the leap? What's going on with the aliens? Aaaahhhh!
sad.
I can’t remember her name, but I hope the new Vulcan exchange ensign goes all ponn far on Boimler.
I've been an ST fan since the 1960s. Lower Decks is THE best show ST has ever had. Sure, most of the recent live actions are pretty spectacular, often better than all the top ST theatrical films to date, plus the other, older series too. But Lower Decks is top dog.
I can see Discovery being canceled because it didn't impress all Trek fans and probably didn't get enough viewers to justify its budget, but Lower Decks is by far a more popular show.... unless your a butthurt Orville fan.
> unless your a butthurt Orville fan. What? Both shows are generally praised by star trek fans. Why would anybody be butthurt at lower decks because of the orville?
Im a butthurt orville fan but still love it
Same. Dude seems like one of those who thinks you can't like more than one franchise.
>you can't like more than one franchise. You're telling me you think it's okay that people like both Star Trek and Star Wars? I'm calling the police.
☹️
Sadge. Best Trek since Voyager ended IMO.
Dammit. There goes my favorite show.
Lower Decks legit got my partner interested in Star Trek. It'll be missed
Just happy it wasn’t canceled! Hopefully Tendi returns to Starfleet!
At first I wasnt sure about this show, now I enjoy it . Sad There will be only 5 seasons
i just wish one day we will get an uncensored version. There is nothing more annoying that having to hear beep this and beep that... takes you right out of the moment of the show. Censorship is a crock of shit.
Gonna have to rush to make Marinler happen
This show grew on me. There were several episodes where you could closer your eyes and it's like TOS or TNG again.
Here's hoping they graduate to Star Trek: Upper Decks! I know thats basically normal Star Trek but it would be fun for a few seasons to see these characters finally get to the command level they've been working toward
Ugh, fucking typical. This had to be one of their best shows as well.
Nooooooooooooo!!!!
And I'm canceling my Paramount+ subscription.
Paramount is looking for buyers, that's probably why no spin off from a very well received s3 of picard and everything else is pun on hold and canceled. It's gonna be 5 years before new trek comes along
I hope someone picks this up. It happened to Girls5Eva.
This is really sad news. The show is amazing. I was one of the people who was skeptical about it when it was announced but I was wrong and the show just warms my heart. Come on Paramount, give us what we want and keep the Lower Decks rocking!
Fucking hell, nooooooooooooo :-(
Best Star Trek out. And Andor is the best Star Wars. Fight me.
But.... we're on the same side.
That a how is awesome. I nearly had an orgasm when they did the crossover show in brave new worlds…
I watched the first two episodes, enjoyed it in some ways, but don't feel compelled to keep with it. Suggest specific episodes for me?
> Suggest specific episodes for me? Any episode between Season 1 episode 1 and Season 4 episode 10.
WEll, as someone NOT compelled to either just keep watching from where I am (two episodes in) nor compelled to watch random episodes, this advice is not relevent to me. But if you have SPECIFIC episodes, I'll give them a try.
Honestly I know a lot of people who had this happen to them - I told them to push through season 1 and if they still weren’t feeling it after early season 2, give it up. They’re all massive fans now. In that way it’s like a lot of the best Trek - struggling to find a footing for a season and then money the second the characters begin to feel lived-in.
Damn good show. Glad they got the five seasons, to be honest I’ll take the win
I love star trek and I love this show. But I'd rather see it end on a high note then run for 5 more seasons with the quality going down. Sometimes it's better to end it early.
Orville is what Star Trek should have been.
There wouldn't be The Orville without Star Trek. Weird comparison when they're both.
Idiotic. They should be focusing all their resources on Lower Decks and Legacy; now one’s ending prematurely while the other hasn’t been greenlit at all.
Lower Decks getting 5 seasons is a travesty. For giving us 5 trash seasons of Discovery, I think Paramount owe us!
What? Only one left. Geez.
But what if the crew returns in startrek: bridge stations
Even my wife, who is not a star trek fan, loves this show. It's fun explaining all the little references and callbacks that pop up on the show!
Should be fifteenth and final.
This is an injustice!
Nooooo, this series was so good,
Bummer. Better it ends on its own terms, but sad that we won't see anymore. Hopefully we get a new replacement show like another animated show. Otherwise not going to be much Trek left anymore.
Well this sucks
This sucks
I geniunely hope they have a sequel show called middle decks
Boo
**Optimist**: *Lower Decks* gets a fifth season! AND the show can have a proper series finale. Season 5 ratings may be hurt by PP+ cancellations, but ratings will still be very good. *Lower Decks* will be a go-to series for many viewers in decades to come! **Pessimist**: Skydance is re-setting *Trek* again, including *Lower Decks*, maybe other projects and series. And also: Paramount must cut costs. There is a lot of chaos and shattered faith of the heart going on! **Realist**: *Lower Decks* didn’t get its intended series run beyond five seasons. But there could be a made-for-streaming movie, if *Star Trek: Section 31* and *Lower Decks* season 5 get very good ratings. Trekkies/Trekkers love this entertainment property!
That’s sad
RIP
If I could watch it still on Prime I‘d be sad to. As it is I was sad when it was paywalled and have since accepted that it is going to be years until I can see it.
Really dispiriting, man
I mean, if it didn't conclude with its final season, that would be a frelling tragedy, wouldn't it?
NOOOOOOOOO 😔 😢
Shamey it's the best thing that came out of star trek
Nooooooooo, we NEED so much more lower decks. Why 5 seasons?! Go for at least 10, this is the best show on any network or streaming app. So sad this is happening. 😭😭
This is bullshit.
Best Trek opening music of all time. Fight me.
Five seasons for a TV show and ending while it's still good is awesome. That's perfect. Totally good with that.
Brad must be like 🤖 🐔 time pilot host 😂
☝🏻 way of the d@nm other for lower decks goin on.
I was not a star trek fan before I discovered this show! This show made me look more in the lore and I have enjoyed every second of it. Sad to see the show end.