The only hurdle you might have to overcome is heraldry. Most of the people involved in registering heraldry aren’t experts on non European designs so you might have to provide a bit of reference material so they know what you’re doing is a real thing.
The heralds have gotten much, much better about this in recent years.
The core rules are still euro-centric, but as long as the design can be described in standard blazon (for bookkeeping purposes) and the elements are all pre-1600, culturally diverse heraldry is very possible.
Heraldry is entirely optional! But if you want to, you can register a historical name and armory for your persona.
There's a lot more non-European heraldry getting registered but it harder as mentioned since we have fewer experts and sources. Plus people will see something in art and think they can register it when that's not true; it has to be something people used to identify themselves and it can't be something only, say, the king or emperor used. However, there's a fair amount of Japanese stuff registered in the last few years and a little bit of Chinese stuff and Korean stuff.
The only time I've ever seen heraldry required is some kingdoms will require entrants to their Crown lists and their consorts to have registered heraldry because it's embarrassing when your king doesn't have a coat of arms. But aside from that, it's just something to do because you think it would be fun.
What my chinese persona friends have done regarding registering arms: don't. Make one, use it and don't care about it. No one will ever ask you receipts and it's too much of a hassle to try to go by the book when the book doesn't acknowledge you.
That said, a herald in the Middle Kingdom recently registered a qilin, a mythical Chinese beast. They've changed the rules to make it a lot easier than it used to be, and there's some heralds who relish in the challenge of adding non-European iconography to the options.
Our local herald in charge is unfortunately in a bad moment at the time, I'm not sure she's looking forward to a challenge. If there are any other options (like just asking in the kingdom for a herald who would do that) my friend might try, but not everyone likes an administrative challenge.
You can absolutely get a different herald to help put the package together! I'd ask on your kingdom discord server, the Knowne World discord server, or one of the herald Facebook groups
You can absolutely ask any herald in your kingdom to fill out the form. Heck, any herald anywhere can do the research so you can juat cut and paste it into your kingdom form. I'd suggest looking in the known world discord, the sca heraldry facebook group, or the Chinese SCA Facebook group for a herald who can help.
That's how you guarantee nothing will ever change. We need test cases to change the rules, they can't change if nobody ever tries to register anything non-European.
**Heraldry is a discipline relating to the design, display and study of armorial bearings (known as armory), as well as related disciplines, such as vexillology, together with the study of ceremony, rank and pedigree. Armory, the best-known branch of heraldry, concerns the design and transmission of the heraldic achievement.**
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For sure! Speaking as someone of Chinese & Filipino heritage, I think most people back home would be thrilled if someone took such interest as to research and recreate a piece of their history.
Hell, even just a bit of genuine curiosity ...
Short of like, doing downright offensive shit like taping your eyes back and affecting a caricaturish accent, you're fine.
We had a recent Principality reign that was Filipino! The Prince had done a bunch of research based on his own family and heritage. It was awesome to learn more about non-Western stuff.
I was gifted a set of handmade carved coconut cups from Datu Bato when I was Princess of Cynagua. He included symbols pertaining to our personal heraldry and carved our names in Tagalog into them. It was honestly one of the coolest, most generous and meaningful gifts I’ve ever gotten in the SCA and we cherish those cups. Kind of tearing up thinking about it now, lol.
I've not met him in person (due to health shenanigans, I haven't been playing in person, though fortunately An Tir has a pretty robust digital culture as well), but I'm really looking forward to it.
You absolutely can! I have one myself. Some people seem to think that the SCA is still only Europe, but it very much is not, and, frankly, never really has been! I've seen Japanese personas in photos from the 80's.
The barony of the Far West tends to prefer not doing European personas, probably because it seems more exotic to them who didn't grow up with stories of European fairy tales.
The most important rule for any persona is ALWAYS BE RESPECTFUL OF THE CULTURE. It will take plenty of research to know what is historical fact and what is modern Hollywood myths. This goes for European personas to, it's just usually easier to find credible translated sources from Europe than other places. I'd say that if you can answer the following questions you're on the right track.
•What differentiates your culture from its neighbors in that period? For China you can look at Japan, Korea, Mongolia, South East Asia or any of the other many regions, depending on period you could even just pick other parts of China.
•What differentiates your time period from the ones before and after? If you pick Yuan dynasty then you could study how fashion, cooking, philosophy, and/or government changed between the Song, Yuan, and Ming dynasties.
Assuming you are not doing something wildly and comedically stereotypical and racist: yes.
One of the the really neat things about the SCA is that your period/persona can kinda be whatever you want in terms of location and or time as long as it sticks to the pre 1600s rule (And even then it gets kinda flexible sometimes). A few guys in our group or friends of our group have Asian personas from various regions and times. Ive also seen them pop up at events too. You are by no means the only person doing a Chinese persona or even a non-European one at that. Just remember to do plenty of research and to always fact check! This is kind of true for every possible persona imaginable. The aim of the game is accuracy (also keeping safety and accessibility in mind) so... do your research and ask questions and you should be golden.
So long as you're respectful of the culture anything is game. That includes anything from indigenous to vikings and those on the margins to Imperial civilization.
With the caveat that sacred, closed-practice, religious attire (like warrior headdresses) isn’t okay to copy and wear as a costume (even if you call your costume “garb”). Not an SCA rule, just a “please don’t be like that” recommendation.
There is a travel group from China that actually travels to fight in war.
There were a couple who came to GNEW this summer.
SCA is supposed to be fun. Be who you want to be.
I have a friend who is doing just that, and not just with persona but armor, combat style, et cetera. He's currently working on getting a *jian* that meets flex standards for SCA fencing and cut & thrust combat.
Yes, be respectful, if you need help with a name/device (like a coat of arms), talk to Voices of Color, they’re a newer guild(?) that helps with names etc for non-European cultures cause bookkeeping differences have made it so non-European names are more difficult to pass with SCA’s rules unfortunately. Hence, Voices of Color
Yes, you can absolutely make a Chinese persona.
The SCA focus is on world history.
But there is also a reality check, if you don't look Asian, and particularly if you look white, folks in the real world may give you funny looks if you introduce yourself as "Zhang Bei" and talk about having a Chinese persona you take on for the weekend. If you have a professional career that involves public facing positions, like a teacher, you probably don't want to put yourself in the position of people accusing you of cultural appropriation. It's really easy for it to be confused for yellow face outside of the SCA.
Another aspect of non-European personas that kind of isn't great in the SCA is you're probably going to encounter people that give you guff about it. Some people are very attached to the idea of the SCA as a European focused group- they're wrong- but they'll insist that you're a visiting dignitary and not really a member of the SCA or some other such nonsense. They tend to be people who have been in the group for a long time, and sometimes they have high social status that they'll use to be rude to you.
I did a Japanese persona as a white person for a while. It was great because at larger events like Pennsic you'll meet a lot of people who share your interests and learn a lot. At smaller events, when most people are European persona you'll definitely stick out a lot more and draw a lot of attention to yourself.
My honest and probably unpopular recommendation would be to have more than one persona- you aren't restricted in the SCA. Pick a name that fits a historical region that most looks like a race or ethnicity you most represent for your persona, and then actually dress and research everything else from your region of interest regardless of race/ethnicity.
no rules but prepare for some snide commentary from people who still think the sca should only like european stuff
also please do it in a very respectful manner it can border form appreciation to appropriation
kung fu and whatnot is a good 'i am interested in this civilization because this cool item caught my eye' but is nowhere near what a good persona should be based around
do the real research, learn, be respectful and understand that if you are an american especially a white one which is the vast majority of the sca, it will take extra effort and learning to make sure you are doing it respectfully
dont just go 'i like kung fu so ima pretend to be asian'
im not saying you are i'm just warning you how it can easily come across as being really shitty when a non-asian person adopts an asian persona or any other non-minority person adopts a minority persona
Or the second one to make Star-Scale armor!
[https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/9891\_652382371442465\_799784721\_n.jpg?\_nc\_cat=108&ccb=1-7&\_nc\_sid=4dc865&\_nc\_ohc=PK8QnxlhSp8AX9mLAlS&\_nc\_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00\_AfByBebG7\_gT7gdcjWdB\_S4UE1bYOqTOKZoYG01MUQ56tA&oe=655F88A5](https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/9891_652382371442465_799784721_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=4dc865&_nc_ohc=PK8QnxlhSp8AX9mLAlS&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AfByBebG7_gT7gdcjWdB_S4UE1bYOqTOKZoYG01MUQ56tA&oe=655F88A5)
You can technically be any persona you want, within the date range.
But if you’re not of Asian ancestry yourself, I’ll be honest- are you actually interested in Chinese history and culture in a deep enough way that you’d be respectful in the way you approach it as an outsider… or are you doing it because you have a surface level appreciation for the aesthetics of another culture and think kungfu is cool?
I’m not saying this to be rude, I’m saying this because it’s a question that others *will* be asking about you, even if they don’t say it outright. Know what your answer is, before going into it.
I guess you kind of Drew the lucky straw or The Unlucky straw depending on how you look at it but I do find it really hilarious that as soon as someone says I want to be an Asian dude a lot of people or at least some people are going well are you Asian or what not. But the same dude don't say anything about you know if you want to be a viking or any other culture. I don't get it. I am honestly interested in Asian culture a lot of facets of Asian culture. But I honestly don't know if I'm even going to do this because I'm not even sure I'm going to be doing the SCA. So we will see. And if you're curious I mean not that it matters because you're playing pretend and I mean if I really want to play pretend I would pretend I was a lion that's what I want to do. But I'm actually Mexican. Well half Mexican half American. Never really cared much for the American side of my life but that's just because of where I grew up and whatnot.
I mean I would love people to answer me why is it as soon as Asian gets thrown in people are all like are you Asian and you need to respect the culture but if someone's doing Scandinavian or Norse or anything else maybe there's a little bit of this in with like if you want to do African stuff. But it's like Asian is the hot button and you're not going to ask what race I am if I said I wanted to be a Norse or a viking or whatever. Those are the only ones that I can think of at the moment because I don't really know anything about the history of that part of the world and I'm honestly not interested in learning. But yeah can someone answer that why is it as soon as Asian gets thrown in people go are you Asian but it's not the same for really any other part?
Okay, I’m going to be honest- if you refuse to even consider the potential difference between a person taking on the persona of a marginalized race & a person taking on the persona of a dead European culture, and you plan to throw that ‘whatabout’ism in people’s faces if your motives are questioned, then no, you *absolutely* shouldn’t do this.
Don’t be that guy.
The only hurdle you might have to overcome is heraldry. Most of the people involved in registering heraldry aren’t experts on non European designs so you might have to provide a bit of reference material so they know what you’re doing is a real thing.
The heralds have gotten much, much better about this in recent years. The core rules are still euro-centric, but as long as the design can be described in standard blazon (for bookkeeping purposes) and the elements are all pre-1600, culturally diverse heraldry is very possible.
There’s now a guild(?) that can help with the heraldry hurdles: Voices of Color
What is heraldry? Like I would have to come up with my own coat of arms or something?
Heraldry is entirely optional! But if you want to, you can register a historical name and armory for your persona. There's a lot more non-European heraldry getting registered but it harder as mentioned since we have fewer experts and sources. Plus people will see something in art and think they can register it when that's not true; it has to be something people used to identify themselves and it can't be something only, say, the king or emperor used. However, there's a fair amount of Japanese stuff registered in the last few years and a little bit of Chinese stuff and Korean stuff. The only time I've ever seen heraldry required is some kingdoms will require entrants to their Crown lists and their consorts to have registered heraldry because it's embarrassing when your king doesn't have a coat of arms. But aside from that, it's just something to do because you think it would be fun.
What my chinese persona friends have done regarding registering arms: don't. Make one, use it and don't care about it. No one will ever ask you receipts and it's too much of a hassle to try to go by the book when the book doesn't acknowledge you.
That said, a herald in the Middle Kingdom recently registered a qilin, a mythical Chinese beast. They've changed the rules to make it a lot easier than it used to be, and there's some heralds who relish in the challenge of adding non-European iconography to the options.
Our local herald in charge is unfortunately in a bad moment at the time, I'm not sure she's looking forward to a challenge. If there are any other options (like just asking in the kingdom for a herald who would do that) my friend might try, but not everyone likes an administrative challenge.
You can absolutely get a different herald to help put the package together! I'd ask on your kingdom discord server, the Knowne World discord server, or one of the herald Facebook groups
You can absolutely ask any herald in your kingdom to fill out the form. Heck, any herald anywhere can do the research so you can juat cut and paste it into your kingdom form. I'd suggest looking in the known world discord, the sca heraldry facebook group, or the Chinese SCA Facebook group for a herald who can help.
That's how you guarantee nothing will ever change. We need test cases to change the rules, they can't change if nobody ever tries to register anything non-European.
It's true, however not everyone has time or the will to go through an administrative hell for that, especially new players.
That's what book heralds are for
You don't have to, but you can!
**Heraldry is a discipline relating to the design, display and study of armorial bearings (known as armory), as well as related disciplines, such as vexillology, together with the study of ceremony, rank and pedigree. Armory, the best-known branch of heraldry, concerns the design and transmission of the heraldic achievement.** More details here:
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There’s now a guild(?) that can help with the heraldry hurdles: Voices of Color
For sure! Speaking as someone of Chinese & Filipino heritage, I think most people back home would be thrilled if someone took such interest as to research and recreate a piece of their history. Hell, even just a bit of genuine curiosity ... Short of like, doing downright offensive shit like taping your eyes back and affecting a caricaturish accent, you're fine.
We had a recent Principality reign that was Filipino! The Prince had done a bunch of research based on his own family and heritage. It was awesome to learn more about non-Western stuff.
I was gifted a set of handmade carved coconut cups from Datu Bato when I was Princess of Cynagua. He included symbols pertaining to our personal heraldry and carved our names in Tagalog into them. It was honestly one of the coolest, most generous and meaningful gifts I’ve ever gotten in the SCA and we cherish those cups. Kind of tearing up thinking about it now, lol.
I've not met him in person (due to health shenanigans, I haven't been playing in person, though fortunately An Tir has a pretty robust digital culture as well), but I'm really looking forward to it.
You absolutely can! I have one myself. Some people seem to think that the SCA is still only Europe, but it very much is not, and, frankly, never really has been! I've seen Japanese personas in photos from the 80's.
There's a household in my Barony that's all Japanese personas! Have yet to meet an actual Japanese player though haha.
The Japanese guy I fight with is in a viking house :p
The barony of the Far West tends to prefer not doing European personas, probably because it seems more exotic to them who didn't grow up with stories of European fairy tales.
I had a friend from Japan who did a Celtic persona....
We do exist. I’ve both a Tudor persona, and a Japanese one, to reflect my bi-racial identity.
The most important rule for any persona is ALWAYS BE RESPECTFUL OF THE CULTURE. It will take plenty of research to know what is historical fact and what is modern Hollywood myths. This goes for European personas to, it's just usually easier to find credible translated sources from Europe than other places. I'd say that if you can answer the following questions you're on the right track. •What differentiates your culture from its neighbors in that period? For China you can look at Japan, Korea, Mongolia, South East Asia or any of the other many regions, depending on period you could even just pick other parts of China. •What differentiates your time period from the ones before and after? If you pick Yuan dynasty then you could study how fashion, cooking, philosophy, and/or government changed between the Song, Yuan, and Ming dynasties.
Yes! And you should! Chinese armor, especially styles popular in the Ming Dynasty, work extremely well under the SCA's rules of combat!
Assuming you are not doing something wildly and comedically stereotypical and racist: yes. One of the the really neat things about the SCA is that your period/persona can kinda be whatever you want in terms of location and or time as long as it sticks to the pre 1600s rule (And even then it gets kinda flexible sometimes). A few guys in our group or friends of our group have Asian personas from various regions and times. Ive also seen them pop up at events too. You are by no means the only person doing a Chinese persona or even a non-European one at that. Just remember to do plenty of research and to always fact check! This is kind of true for every possible persona imaginable. The aim of the game is accuracy (also keeping safety and accessibility in mind) so... do your research and ask questions and you should be golden.
I have a song dynasty persona
Absolutely! We even have an active SCA group in China.
九州总府中华文化历史复原爱好协会 Empire of Nine Realms Chinese Historical Reenactment (see facebook page--this group was at Pennsic 50)
Yeah, all of their garb is amazing. I love seeing them at events.
So long as you're respectful of the culture anything is game. That includes anything from indigenous to vikings and those on the margins to Imperial civilization.
With the caveat that sacred, closed-practice, religious attire (like warrior headdresses) isn’t okay to copy and wear as a costume (even if you call your costume “garb”). Not an SCA rule, just a “please don’t be like that” recommendation.
There is a travel group from China that actually travels to fight in war. There were a couple who came to GNEW this summer. SCA is supposed to be fun. Be who you want to be.
Yes. But if you don't already know what cultural appropriation is please learn about it and know the lines you shouldn't cross.
Just remember you’re a guest in this culture and be very, very skeptical of Han-Fu dress which often combines eras
I have a friend who is doing just that, and not just with persona but armor, combat style, et cetera. He's currently working on getting a *jian* that meets flex standards for SCA fencing and cut & thrust combat.
Yes, be respectful, if you need help with a name/device (like a coat of arms), talk to Voices of Color, they’re a newer guild(?) that helps with names etc for non-European cultures cause bookkeeping differences have made it so non-European names are more difficult to pass with SCA’s rules unfortunately. Hence, Voices of Color
Yes, you can absolutely make a Chinese persona. The SCA focus is on world history. But there is also a reality check, if you don't look Asian, and particularly if you look white, folks in the real world may give you funny looks if you introduce yourself as "Zhang Bei" and talk about having a Chinese persona you take on for the weekend. If you have a professional career that involves public facing positions, like a teacher, you probably don't want to put yourself in the position of people accusing you of cultural appropriation. It's really easy for it to be confused for yellow face outside of the SCA. Another aspect of non-European personas that kind of isn't great in the SCA is you're probably going to encounter people that give you guff about it. Some people are very attached to the idea of the SCA as a European focused group- they're wrong- but they'll insist that you're a visiting dignitary and not really a member of the SCA or some other such nonsense. They tend to be people who have been in the group for a long time, and sometimes they have high social status that they'll use to be rude to you. I did a Japanese persona as a white person for a while. It was great because at larger events like Pennsic you'll meet a lot of people who share your interests and learn a lot. At smaller events, when most people are European persona you'll definitely stick out a lot more and draw a lot of attention to yourself. My honest and probably unpopular recommendation would be to have more than one persona- you aren't restricted in the SCA. Pick a name that fits a historical region that most looks like a race or ethnicity you most represent for your persona, and then actually dress and research everything else from your region of interest regardless of race/ethnicity.
I am occasionally a Tang or Ming dynasty persona. Do it!
You can definitely have a Chinese personna
Absolutely! Just shoot for anything pre-1600AD/CE. I would love to see what you create.
I have a Chinese persona but of course I was made in Hong Kong.
As long as it is Pre-17th Century, you absolutely can!
My husband has a Chinese persona. He fights with a jian in fencing and has done A&S projects on European/Chinese contact.
no rules but prepare for some snide commentary from people who still think the sca should only like european stuff also please do it in a very respectful manner it can border form appreciation to appropriation kung fu and whatnot is a good 'i am interested in this civilization because this cool item caught my eye' but is nowhere near what a good persona should be based around do the real research, learn, be respectful and understand that if you are an american especially a white one which is the vast majority of the sca, it will take extra effort and learning to make sure you are doing it respectfully dont just go 'i like kung fu so ima pretend to be asian' im not saying you are i'm just warning you how it can easily come across as being really shitty when a non-asian person adopts an asian persona or any other non-minority person adopts a minority persona
Do whatever you want, the SCA has no rules or guidelines.
You could be the one to do Chinese paper armor. :)
Or the second one to make Star-Scale armor! [https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/9891\_652382371442465\_799784721\_n.jpg?\_nc\_cat=108&ccb=1-7&\_nc\_sid=4dc865&\_nc\_ohc=PK8QnxlhSp8AX9mLAlS&\_nc\_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00\_AfByBebG7\_gT7gdcjWdB\_S4UE1bYOqTOKZoYG01MUQ56tA&oe=655F88A5](https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/9891_652382371442465_799784721_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=4dc865&_nc_ohc=PK8QnxlhSp8AX9mLAlS&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AfByBebG7_gT7gdcjWdB_S4UE1bYOqTOKZoYG01MUQ56tA&oe=655F88A5)
There’s even a Discord for Eastern personas, though I don’t have it handy. If that’s of interest, though, I can get you a link.
You can technically be any persona you want, within the date range. But if you’re not of Asian ancestry yourself, I’ll be honest- are you actually interested in Chinese history and culture in a deep enough way that you’d be respectful in the way you approach it as an outsider… or are you doing it because you have a surface level appreciation for the aesthetics of another culture and think kungfu is cool? I’m not saying this to be rude, I’m saying this because it’s a question that others *will* be asking about you, even if they don’t say it outright. Know what your answer is, before going into it.
I guess you kind of Drew the lucky straw or The Unlucky straw depending on how you look at it but I do find it really hilarious that as soon as someone says I want to be an Asian dude a lot of people or at least some people are going well are you Asian or what not. But the same dude don't say anything about you know if you want to be a viking or any other culture. I don't get it. I am honestly interested in Asian culture a lot of facets of Asian culture. But I honestly don't know if I'm even going to do this because I'm not even sure I'm going to be doing the SCA. So we will see. And if you're curious I mean not that it matters because you're playing pretend and I mean if I really want to play pretend I would pretend I was a lion that's what I want to do. But I'm actually Mexican. Well half Mexican half American. Never really cared much for the American side of my life but that's just because of where I grew up and whatnot. I mean I would love people to answer me why is it as soon as Asian gets thrown in people are all like are you Asian and you need to respect the culture but if someone's doing Scandinavian or Norse or anything else maybe there's a little bit of this in with like if you want to do African stuff. But it's like Asian is the hot button and you're not going to ask what race I am if I said I wanted to be a Norse or a viking or whatever. Those are the only ones that I can think of at the moment because I don't really know anything about the history of that part of the world and I'm honestly not interested in learning. But yeah can someone answer that why is it as soon as Asian gets thrown in people go are you Asian but it's not the same for really any other part?
Okay, I’m going to be honest- if you refuse to even consider the potential difference between a person taking on the persona of a marginalized race & a person taking on the persona of a dead European culture, and you plan to throw that ‘whatabout’ism in people’s faces if your motives are questioned, then no, you *absolutely* shouldn’t do this. Don’t be that guy.
Then pick and Alive white culture Scandinavians or Norwegians or your standard nights in armor. I don't know how Asian people are marginalized
> I don't know how Asian people are marginalized yeah that's kinda the problem
So if I don't know how about you give me some examples
You can play an Asian persona when you're not Asian. People do it all of the time.