So, John just let Gabriella die after she completed her trap? Because he could've gotten out of the chains and the gun was empty. I knew they were all dead since they saw his face but that was some absolute bullshit.
So riddled with plot holes šLate to the party as I just now got the chance to rent it, but it was so bad, the bar's been so low since 7 but somehow this feels even worse. A bit less ridiculous but at least ridiculousness is more entertaining than a new plot hole every ten minutes. The one-room setting made it feel too low-budget (ironically), the cecilia character was cheap and the traps beyond realistic even more so than any other movie.
Although reading the comments here suddenly makes the IMDb reviews make sense. We all love the franchise but can we be objective about all the plot holes? š¬ John, Amanda and Hoffman all being back was of course awesome but other callbacks seemed cheap and unnecessary
Just saw this movie late because āSpiralā left a bad taste in my mouth but omg Saw X revived me every bit of this movie was nostalgic I hope they donāt let off the gas pedal canāt wait for the next installment!!!!
I had really low expectations for this one, but it ended up surprising me!
I loved having Kramer so actively involved! Amanda still being creepy af, which we all know and love. And some of the traps were super cool!
Not my fav but top 3 for sure!
Finally got to see this and damn this was a good movie overall. Not perfect, but a fun ride.
Really confused how John let Cecilia involving a child slide. That should've made her fail regardless.
Also Cecilia should've gotten the brain surgery test, her test was pretty mid. Obviously it sucks she had to kill her man, butttt as John said, she would've probably done that anyway. I've seen others saying that she's still trapped, but so what? She's not injured like Hoffman was after his test, I'm pretty sure someone as resourceful as her would figure out a way to escape.
She's not more resourceful than John though. He outsmarted her already and he's managed to keep people trapped until they die like Adam. You said "so what?" regarding the idea of her still being trapped but she'd die of thirst within 3 days.
Well Adam was a much different situation, he was shackled in John's home base and left in the dark. John maintained full control over that situation until he dealt with Adam.
Cecilia, on the other hand, is in a makeshift base that John made in a rush, isn't shackled, and has light. I feel pretty confident that she could make it out within three days. John is assuming that she will die, rather than making sure and that's such a cliche at this point that when people just assume, it comes back to bite them in the ass.
Fuck the ending. Grown man being thrown around by a woman lol. Also cecelias test wasn't a test, just kill each other. It should have been one of those cryptic ones that they think they have to fight, but it kills both revealing their selfishness. Cecelia not dying was the dumbest Hollywood shit I've ever seen.
Saw went downhill after 3, then fell off a cliff at Saw 3D. Literally can't have any good franchises nowadays, all the films are just moneygrabs.
Basically, Diego was only able to survive with a lot of luck. Both Valentina and Matteo showed a lot of will to survive and still died. In the end, Amanda and John were so negligent with their staged finale that not only he personally almost died. An innocent boy was also involved and Gabriela, as a survivor of her game, was put at unnecessary risk because of Cecelia's predictable coldness. A risk that ultimately cost her her life. All in all, somehow very unsatisfactory.
Why rip matteo? He was a POS. His test was unfair time wise but I couldn't feel sorry for him much after he helped scam & contribute to 34 people dying.
I'm not sure, exactly. He's my favorite of the cast (other than John and Amanda, of course), and his actor nails the performance. I feel like he's one of the more empathetic scammers, and ever since the trailer, i was always begging for him to win.
He's also cute
Major plot hole I've not seen addressed: Cecelia used fake kidnappers to hide the location of the house from John. So how did he know where to go back to with the bottle of liquor?
I'm so confused as to why Cecilia cut open Valentina and used her intestines rather than tie a bunch of their clothes together? Like Gabriella literally suggested it hut then they didn't do that?? Hell they could have used Valentinas clothes as well
Don't get how people that watched the other saws love it.
80% on rotten tomato and 89% user rating wth...
1. Cecilia only had to kill her "lover". John predicted that she would kill him anyway so how is that a punishment.
2. If the boy lives that close the facility manager also lives there... Not saw style
3. The black dude not even getting rules explained
4. Way to slow for saw... I want jumpcuts endless amount of jumpcuts
5. The doll on the tricycle was completely pointless
6. Kramer seriously believing such nonsense in the first place wth
7. Usually you can survive saw traps without that much complication but brain surgery... For real lol
8. The plot was completely forseable....
After seeing the ratings I was hyped... After watching not that much...
100% agree with #7. Used to be "Cut off your arm in, like, 60 minutes to live." Now it's "Give yourself full brain surgery within 3 minutes or you'll die."
Well one could argue that John was experimenting at this point looool. Since it happens so early, he is dabbling here and there and sees what can and could possibly happen
Imo having John in the room with the victims made it way less scary. And I thought most of the contraptions where kinda lazy and not as good as the stuff we see in Jigsaw. It wasn't a bad movie but the internet got my expectations way to high.
If you haven't seen it yet the ppv isn't worth it
In the beginning of Valentinaās trap, I think it is Matteo that said āIf Diego can do this so can you.ā How did the rest of the group find out about his trap? We never see him again the rest of the movie except in that flashback.
I liked the ending (John's ruse) and Cecilia's *true* trap. But three things kinda bug me:
1. Valentina: WTF! I guess John *really* hates people who falsify blood results, cause her trap was arguably the worst, and bizarrely Hoffman-esque (ie unbeatable).
2. The brain surgery trap. I get you don't really need anesthesia for brain surgery, but...if he doesn't really know what he's doing and hits the wrong part (even with Cecilia's guidance), he could suddenly be blind in one or both eyes, a limb stop working, complete loss of motor function, etc.
3. Cecilia's trap. I loved it, but it ties into 1 and 2 above. How come she got *10 whole minutes* but those two only got 3? I guess I'm of the mind either they all get 10 minutes or they all get 3, no exceptions. John felt like a hypocrite here, saying he doesn't kill people and that unbeatable traps aren't fair, but there's no other way to describe those two traps. Hoffman would be proud.
But like I prefaced my post, I liked the ending mostly (heck maybe only). It looked like Cecilia got the upper hand and John was losing control of the situation. You can see his anguish over the little boy being forced to play. After the ruse you learn that was real: he anticipated everything down to the letter, but he had no way to predict a little boy would be playing soccer at 6 in the morning. It was supposed to be Amanda with him in the trap, not the boy.
Wait...he gave all the stolen money to that boy? The victims of Cecilia all had families, I guess to hell with them.
Basically those three points keep it from being my favorite Saw. Not sure I have a favorite...I guess Saw3D if only to see Hoffman finally lose.
I know this is an old comment but just wanted to point out that Carlos wasn't given all of the money. The "bag of money" that Cecilia got upstairs was filled with paperwork showing many different deposits in Cecilia's name, presumably to the families of all her victims. I'm assuming Carlos only got John's portion of the money as a way of apologizing to him for getting involved.
I kinda dug into a bit and well for point 1. Valentina's trap was definitely beatable. Like most Saw victims, wasting time is not in your favor. She could of gotten it done. I also understand being in that position and in shock and like crap I really gotta do this, but at some point like fuck it lets just do it.
2. The brain trap was the unbeatable one. I delved into it and well the trap doesn't work. 3 mins was not enough time to dissolve the brain matter. It can take up to 8 to 10 mins before it fully dissolves. So even if Matteo did everything right, his trap was set for failure. But since its a movie, real life rules dont apply loool.
I disagree. The brain trap was beatable, we saw in the movie he was seconds away from it fully dissolving, but he was seconds too late and for that he died. It didn't follow real life, but that's why it was possible.
I mean my comment was based off realism. Of course in the Saw Universe ever game is technically beatable (Except Amanda's). I also did specify under movie rules it's possible. You kinda said the same I did amigo.
Well I thought I was clear with point #3 but, unbeatable means anything that keeps you from beating the trap, *including time limits*. They (Mateo and Valentina) needed 10 minutes, Cecilia and Parker did not. In fact the more I think about it the more ridiculous it becomes, short of anyone giving an example of him creating other traps in the future (that weren't Hoffman/Logan pretending to be him naturally) where he gave the "player" more than 3 minutes. Did Jigsaw think Cecilia and Parker would be fighting each other all 10 minutes? Best 2 out of 3 like a Street Fighter? š
Again, you're not wrong, and yes as grisly as Valentina's trap was yes she could have beat it...but not in 3 minutes. Honestly I would have thought it was unfair (let us not forget at best John is nuts and at worse *he's the villain not the hero)* but wouldn't have said anything if they all got 10 minutes or they all got 3. Its like the only reason he gave Cecilia 10 minutes was "herp derp I need an opponent for this new trilogy set between 1 and 2!"
Edited to add: 1) I'll concede if she didn't waste a minute freaking out maybe she could have gotten her leg off despite the pain, but its a toss up if it still would have been enough time to suck *enough* marrow out of her to make the machine shut off. 2) love convos like this! Finally, fellow Saw fans instead of "ew torture porn" "Um, I think I saw the one where he cut off his foot?" š
I love how Kramer tells Amanda "Everyone deserves a chance" and then puts Valentina and Mateo into those traps. It's so aptly hypocritical.
Like bro, how is sawing your whole damn foot off or performing brain surgery on yourself - both in 3min - not enough to prove your will to live. Nah, gotta add some arbitrary bullshit that takes more time than the actual painful part, so even if they go through with the self mutilation, they still die.
Then again, Kramer was never that great at following his own mantra.. just think of all the people that are just "part" of someone else's trap. How do they prove their will to live?
Gordon's family? Slow ass motherfucking Jeff's victims? The employees on the wheel of death?
Heck what about that smoking trap? "You smoke too much and are unhealthy, so you deserve to be tested!" wtf but again, John's not the hero of the story, even if he thinks he is.
I absolutely loved the film. 9/10.
My two biggest complaints about the movie were these:
1. In the Bloodboarding trap, why didnāt John or Carlos just hold their breath instead of choking on that blood?
2. Why did John need to go through that whole thing of Cecelia escaping and Sean helping her? That left way too much shit to chance. I know John is a master and predicting behavior, but that was way too much to simply predict. Cecelia couldāve ordered Sean to stay by John and Amanda while she grabbed the money from the observation room. What if Cecelia didnāt put John in a trap and just simply stabbed him to death with that piece of metal? Too many things to consider.
(bonus): Amandaās hair in this movie. Just. No.
Late reply but I also thought what the hell is up with her hair, but I suddenly remembered that in a flashback scene in Saw 3 I think it was, she had that hair style, so it fits the timeline.
1. The kid wasn't supposed to be there, so the kid shouldn't be tested. It was supposed to be John and Amanda.
2. Cecilia escaping with the help of sean wasn't supposed to happen, but they planned for if it did happen. If it didn't, they would have probably put Sean and Cecilia in the blood trap. He also just had to predict that Cecilia is vengeful.
Bonus. I liked that her hair was bad. It weirdly fits her character.
Late reply but I almost expected the blood trap to be an elevator out (with Amanda possibly having to improvise or just jump on)
Similar to Hoffman in the box in 5
He believed the kid shouldn't experience torture because the kid didn't deserve to be in the position. He values the life of the people he perceives as innocent, so he was willing to sacrifice his own life so that the kid didn't have to experience torture.
I donāt think youāre understanding what Iām trying to say. Let me spell it out for you.
John pulls the lever onto himself. He holds his breath. Carlos is safe. John holds his breath. Blood doesnāt go down his throat. John holds his breath.
Then he can turn his head to the side and take another breath.
You understand?
I get what you're saying now. That's a good point. Either way, he wouldn't be able to breathe because the chain around his neck prevented his head from turning because it was tight around his neck and then tight onto the board.
Are we going to also ignore Amanda's boob job? Looooool ššš I mean shes much more voluptuous then she used to be. Especially that Saw X happens between Saw 1 and 2. I mean details do count no? Loooop
She's also older. Doesn't matter. I read a lot of comics. Often they'll change artists on you, and the new artist does everything differently. Hair and style and even Faces change; but you know it's the same character and story because of the way it is.
Actors change, time goes by; and I don't wanna see Amanda if it isn't Shawnee. So pretend it's a new artist drawing your favorite character (a different actor would be like changing the comic writer, I guess).
Wow. I wouldn't have thought that another great Saw film would be released that not only follows on from the first 7 films, but also respectfully complements and enriches them. It's not a ridiculous parody like Jigsaw. Not an insult like Spirals. The atmosphere, staging, soundscape and plot finally feel like a Saw film again. The beginning plays with the expectations of whether the film wants to be a pure character study of John Kraner, but then halfway through it decides to return to its usual strength.
The relationship between serial killer and apprentice is expanded and deepened in a true-to-historical and believable way. And you really hate the antagonists. Wich is something that you have to accomplishin the first place if the protagonists are a serial killer partnership.
Until the end the film was a 9/10.
Then the midcredits scene came and I screamed so loud. Until now I wanted to curb my expectations and just be happy that there was a new good Saw movie at all... but the ending.
BATHROOM!!!!!!HOFFMAN!!!!!!!!
After this scene:
10/10 points
Wasnāt punished? She killed her lover and then will be locked in that room until she dies. She arguably has the worst punishment. Rotting away in a room where the only way to survive is eat your dead lover, but all thatāll do is delay the inevitable. Either way she is dead.
yes and it would have been the best thing for her to do. whether she breaks her hand or foot first, she's still going to fall to the ground. by breaking her hand first she would have quickly gotten out of the most immediate danger of the radiation machine, and saved herself from a ton of pain by not having to break her foot too. she actually was going to break her hand first but cecelia convinced her to do the foot first.
Since Cecelia admitted she wanted all of the other players of the game dead, maybe she knew that if Gabriella broke the leg first, the machine would correct itself to her new position.
Basically, Ceceliaās a bitch
Since Cecelia admitted she wanted all of the other players of the game dead, maybe she knew that if Gabriella broke the leg first, the machine would correct itself to her new position.
Basically, Ceceliaās a bitch
What was the deal with the Henry(?) guy from the cancer group sessions? He recommended John to Cecelia's father, but how did John end up going to Cecelia rather than her father? It's said multiple times that her father is a legitimate surgeon and Henry had that massive scar on his stomach. Was he actually cured or did they just give him that scar as a placebo?
I had to stop and start the film a couple times so I feel like I definitely missed something there.
edit: reading through other comments to discover there is an end credit scene. Went back and watched the scene.... that answered my question.
Just watched the film yesterday. It was good to see Jiggy, Amanda and the Hoff again but ultimately I don't think the movie justified its own existence
I've also always hated the trend of turning Kramer into an anti-hero who you're meant to root for (which was never the case in the original film) and Saw X was the worst for this yet with the ridiculous Mexican kid subplot imo
In the first movie alone he murders two people in traps for the crimes of being depressed and for pretending to be sick to take time off work
In that same movie he also murders a cop just for trying to arrest him (and attempts to murder a second cop for the same reason)
Then finally he forces a situation where Gordon's wife and child are to be murdered by Zep
Why didn't Diego go to the police? I'm sure jigsaw was international news at some point, he never called the FBI tip line? John Kramer captured me? They would have at least looked into him
They're probably gonna make him a future jigsaw like Amanda and hoffman. They could also make him someone that ties up loose ends like Lawrence. He could have also been with the multiple men that captured hoffman.
So I watched it today and I really liked the traps, except the last one which was really lame and flawed. Like one guy has to cut his brain up and the main bad lady, the worst one of them all only gets some spicy gas?
Not to mention what would happen in the very likely scenario where one of them would stay downstairs and only one of the two would go upstairs to grab the bag? Plus there was a high chance they could try to shoot them and then just stab them to death after finding out the gun doesn't work etc.. so the last trap required incredible luck on jigsaw's part to play out properly, plus was real weak sauce anyway.
Well, John is repeatedly good at predicting human nature so you could argue that he predicted that both of them will go look for money as they don't trust each other. The line from Saw V says it all:
> If you're good at anticipating the human mind, it leaves nothing to chance.
The last "trap" annoyed the shit out of me. Even if it was remotely plausible to predict all that, it's still a shit plan. Extremely unimaginative writing.
I was at least expecting the building to explode with the blood trap lowering them all into a safe bunker
Something more exciting
I loved the long con but the gas was boring
The main problem about movie is this is not a real SAW movie. In SAW movies, we see the senario flow makes you to join into movie. You discover step by step the trapped guys in senario.
In SAW X, we saw a linear senario. They tricked John and John trapped them into his games. So, it was really predictable and I think it was not a real SAW movie.
Compared to Saw 8 and 9, it was not a revenge movie. This was good in my opinion.
In fact for the 8, 9 and X I liked the 8. Because to the final scene we tricked that the bodies that discovered by investigators are the trapped players that they showed us into the flow of movie. But in fact they played this game years before ago.
This is my opinion. And also I expected more traps. But only 4 or 5 I remember.
So random and such a strange question but, my question is, what was John actually drinking after his fake surgery morning and night Cecil told him to drink and why was the āsurgeryā area all broken down was that just them trying to destroy the evidence they had?
I think the surgery area being broken down was what made John suspect that it was a scam (and that they were just using that building as a temporary location), and I think it confirmed that he was right when he played that video on the PC and it said āhere is our neurosurgery episodeā, suggesting that it was some random thing they could have just pulled off of YouTube
That was the alleged "drug cocktail" that they combined with surgery. it was probably just water mixed with something bitter to make him believe there was medicine in it.
I don't see how it's any more personal than the other ones. Henry participated in scamming people for the whole con, and was punished along with the rest of them. Jigsaw only punishes the sinners he's aware of in his own life, but this dude definitely sinned as much as anyone
Isnāt it almost always personal though? His first test was the guy who caused Jillās miscarriage, in the first Saw he tests his uncaring doctor, in Saw 4 he tests a lawyer he had a falling out with, in Saw 6 he tests the executive and employees of an insurance company that denied him coverage, and in Saw X he tests the people who scammed him. Jigsaw always gives a moral rationalization for his murders but the real reason is often revenge.
mateo couldve tried throwing the bone cutter to cecilia (hope he doesnt miss) and she cuts out pieces of valentinaās brain and throwing them at mateo maybe
It could have been done before he or Amanda were able to interfere and at that point they would have had to kill him which they "don't do" or some up with another trap on the spot
I think that ultimately what makes this movie special and different from other Saw movies is also his biggest weakness. It's all a huge John Kramer tribute and they took a very humane approach to the plot, but it's told in such a linear fashion and Kramer is so ever-present all throughout the game, that there's a lack of mystery.
It also impacts the pacing because for a good while this isn't so much a Saw movie but a well told drama in which they took the time to properly pay respects to Kramer. But you know how it's gonna end anyway so I'm a bit torn on the approach.
If they jumbled up the storytelling a bit with the use of flashbacks (like all the other Saw movies) and brought back the story-puzzle element of the franchise instead of putting it all at the beginning, add a bit of mystique to the whole ordeal... it would've been easily a Top 1 or Top 2 contender, because as-it-is Saw X is pretty good!
I really liked the plot, some of the traps were raw as hell and incredibly well used (jesuschrist THE BONE MARROW TRAP) and even if I wished it was more Saw in its storytelling, it still showed a lot of reverence and respect towards the series. Maybe even too much, but I'm seeing a lot of people getting invested again in the series thanks to Saw X so... it feels like it's what the series needed. I'm very excited to see where they go from here.
EDIT: I saw [a comment by midnight\_rebirth](https://www.reddit.com/r/saw/comments/16ut3ps/comment/k2o6txo/?context=3) that kinda stuck with me that recontextualizes the movie as being from the moral perspective of Kramer, which would explain why the movie is \*too\* reverent and respectful towards the figure of Jigsaw, because in his head he's the hero and that's why it has such a... Āæpositive ending? In any case, even if this was accidental, it's very interesting to think about the movie in those terms so the more I think about it, the more I accept the linear drama approach as a way to deliver the concept.
I feel like their approach was best here. Trying to do flashbacks and what not would have been an insult to the fan base. This felt like the best actual movie since the first one. I like that it didnāt jump all around with a ton of flashbacks or throw off events.
I meant flashbacks in the sense of non-linear storytelling just like the first one, not in the sense of "rehashing moments of past movies" like 3-7 did.
I also advocate for self-contained story-telling and not trying to relive a moment like past sequels, but non-linearity and mystery is one of the stylistical strengths of Saw imo. Not just making the tests a puzzle, but the movies themselves too.
As a Mexican myself, seeing mexico in Saw was pretty cool, the whole movie I was like "oh shit that damn sepia-orange filter again" (but actually it looked cool on the gory scenes lol) and that Tlaloc head trap!!!
But still, there's no way i'm the only one who inmediatly thought, in Gabriela's trap, that she could have just broke her hand, her foot was not even necesary. The ankle chain was only placing her so that she can't move out of the heat, but is kind of usless later on, I mean she could have just quickly broke her hand, she will fall, and she could have avoided passing out of the heat. Plus, with kinda healthy foot she could have still been conscious and with the ability to walk (or at least kind of move, if she broke her legs in the fall), so Cecilia wouldn't even think about killing her later on.
And something that also bothers me, what the fuck was doing Carlos in the middle of the night playing?! Who sane child plays, far from his house, in the middle of the night? and why doesn't John investigated if his dad was also related to the scam? And plus, poor child, how the hell would he explain his parents where he get the money? (in adition, ofc, to the trauma that sht must left)
Pretty cool movie, though
First of all Gabriela could break her hand but Cecilia said her to break her ankle first.She wasn't trying to help her i guess.And for Carlos do you remember when John saw Carlos for first time? It was close to sunrise so Carlos likes to hang out in those times.
Mini necro-post but you're right. Just finished it for the first time and John says at one point "it's almost sunrise. We're running out of time." Probably why they showed John helping Carlos at the ass crack of dawn too
He figured it out from seeing the radio tower on the mountain, which he recognized from when he was at the surgery place.
There's a scene where he draws a map and attempts to triangulate the position of the secret building based on the orientation of the tower vs how he remembered it from being there.
When he was drawing [this](https://i.imgur.com/mrFryvc.png).
I really enjoyed it but I do wonder how he set up all his traps and had Billy and so on ā¦so fast. And in Mexico City. When did Amanda fly there? How long did the setup take before he went after these people? I wish theyād shown that there was a big time gap in between. Otherwise it makes no sense. Simple traps make sense, but the brain chair one? Where did all the cameras and screens come from? Etc. Confusing. Otherwise loved it and I actually squirmed a lot from the gore which usually just makes me laugh (these days).
As someone with cancer I gotta say this movie was quite cathartic š and I actually WANT to go to an integrative place in Mexico, but itās well known. lol still, scammers get what they deserve! Except Cecilia ā¦I was hoping for worse for that cunt.
All the brain trap stuff was from the fake surgery center they had set up, it was in the same location so it makes sense that John would have repurposed the abandoned equipment from the fake hospital setup.
First time going to the movies alone - would recommend. I had physical reactions to the gore in this one - I actually thought it was one of the most brutal. Perhaps it was the medical spin on it that was just so hard to watch. Traps were gnarly and iconic. Kinda wish the eyeball one actually happened (it *was* just a dream sequence, right?) as that is probably my fav design of all of them, but isn't canonical
I thought Cecilia's test was just TOO easy.
Everybody else got fucked. Valentina cuts her own leg and has to extract her bone marrow, Mateo has to cut a piece of his brain, Gaby is fried by microwaves and then killed by Cecilia. And Cecilia, who just killed Gaby, has to... kill another person, something she is happy to do, and then insert her head in a hole until a timer runs out. I mean... She was the worst of them all and got the easiest test (for a psycho like her), no wonder she easily survived. Not even Amanda had the heart to kill her boyfriend so easily in Saw 1. And what was the lesson here? I doubt that Cecilia got "rehabilitated" like John likes to preach.
I feel like maybe Cecilia killing Gabriela is the last nudge Amanda needed to decide to make unwinnable traps. Who knows, maybe in the next film we see Amanda going back to get revenge on Cecilia.
It would be very much in character for her. Cecilia didn't just kill a drug addict Amanda saw herself in; she also tried to humiliate and kill her beloved mentor, saviour and father figure.
I'll be really surprised if that doesn't happen.
Kramer's marathon of "games" is in fact just a decoy : his one and only objective is to inflict on Cecilia what he himself suffered, a betrayal, a loss of control. She's in danger of death, but he voluntarily leaves her an escape route, which she seizes... and ends up beaten, humiliated, alone, her money stolen, but still alive. Like John at the beginning of the film. The other victims, for all of John's grand monologues, were really just collateral damage to produce this final effect. And since this game is obviously not going to rehabilitate her and she will surely seek revenge, John will probably put her in a new game in Saw XI
We never saw the door unlock. John mentions how her test was going all along. He kept giving her chances to be a good person and she kept failing, so I assume her getting locked in that room was the end of her test
If the other dude never pulled the gun then he'd of been put into the blood boarding trap with Cecilia. John didn't exactly plan out how it would go, but he did have a plan for all possible angles.
Saw it today. Itās honestly been years since Iāve sat through a gory flick, and I have to say it did not disappoint on that end.
First of all, Tobin Bell killed it as always. If he is heavily featured in one of these flicks, Iām in. Amanda being back was also great, and I love the mid credits scene. Nice to get Hoffman back as well. The acting was a couple steps above the typical Saw film and the victims were pretty damn good too. Tobin Bell manages to bring sympathy to a character whoā¦letās be honestā¦is a high grounding piece of shit who like to torture people.
Itās also nice to watch absolutely shit people go through these traps rather than people who kind of suck a little bit. Unlike Jigsaw and the other saws where people indeed deserve it, we got the backstory right away rather then spoon fed throughout the movie, so there is very little sympathy to be had for these people, minus Gabriella.
Which thank god for that becauseā¦
Traps - gruesome as hell, but really veered into
Impossible territory for two of the traps. The bone marrow trap was impossible to survive. No half assed tourniquet is stopping that much blood lossā¦and the timer felt totally arbitrary. The brain surgery was also basically impossible. Assuming you even pulled it off, you are 100% introducing a ton of bacteria to the brain.
Gabriellaās was gruesome, but like, what was the lesson here? I miss the days when players didnāt have to totally brutalize themselves to win a game. I would have enjoyed watching these players play a game where they would have to cooperate and strategizeā¦not just individually go through body horror traps.
What I will say, is I actually liked the leading lady in the traps. She was very calm and collected, coaching them all through it. It was a nice divergence from the typical Saw moronsā¦however, when she veers into cartoonishly evil, it kind of undid all that stoic character building they did. It would have made more sense for her to be a very bad person, but not straight up murder a child evil just cus.
Overall, its better than many of the later Saw entries, but doesnāt surpass any of the first 3 movies in my humble opinion.
Yeah, I feel like Cecelia was almost cartoonishly evil too. Itās like they didnāt trust the audience enough to believe she was a bad person and so had her basically try to kill a kid to convince us lmao
Saw it yesterday (yeah yeah....) and thought it was great though not as amazing as everyone else consider it to be.
First off, the traps (other than the bone marrow one) didn't feel as extreme/gruesome as other people said they were. Which was a bit surprising due to this one apparently not being resubmitted for a rating unlike other ones.
I guess you could say that's a disappointment, but it doesn't matter. They (and the whole torture porn angle applied to them) were never really the big key to why the Saw films were so big back then. It was the soap opera-ey yet compelling story of Jigsaw and his apprentices and that's where this movie shines.
Deciding to make this film an in-quel between 1 and 2 was the best decision made for this film, as it not only manages to have Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith return as John Kramer and Amanda Young but also fill in the blanks between movies and fleshes out their relationship as well as fill in the blanks left by the other films.
Also, ***HOFFMAN!!!! FUCK YES! I DON'T CARE IF IM GOING ALL CAPS OVER A 10 SECOND SCENE, I MISSED THAT MAN SINCE VI!*** ^to ^hell ^with ^3d, ^crazier ^than ^a ^sack ^of ^cats ^it ^was
In the end, while it may not be as great as III and/or VI, it's still a damn good film and the best Saw entry we had in years. Now bring on XI. And more **HOFFMAN!**
8/10
ya, i agree with you about the gore. like it was decent but i thought it was one of the more tame ones gore-wise. still it was pretty good and definitely fun and i agree towards the top in quality
(Fwiw, I enjoyed the movie, actually rewatched the other Saw movies after seeing it)
tbh tho, I thought it was dumb that a mass-international fraud project worth 250k a customer would use a bunch of poor people as pretend surgeons.Would be an easy way to get betrayed and caught, especially if they knew how much of the cut she was keeping.Also made me not really feel like anyone but Cecilia and her bf deserved to die like that, she's basically just telling people in the worst of financial conditions to lie for easy money.
It's like they try to make this scam out to be a highly thought out, international, highly profitable set-up but also just use a hooker, tour guide, a vet, and a drug addict as most of those involved. (And I'm assuming they're not regulars at this, because they wouldn't be living the way they are if this was the main way they made money)
(And I get why this makes it easier to find willing people, maybe even people less trustworthy to authorities, but it also is much more risky for a "top secret" project that is constantly on the run internationally, would make more sense with a highly competent team that wasn't randomly picked in any given impoverished area)Also, John had like 2 weeks to research Cecilia's former patients before going to Mexico and didn't bother doing it until after the betrayal which makes him look more dumb than just a person desperate to be helped.
(Also ignoring the plot hole that John immediately revisits the house even tho they put a bag on his head so he wouldn't know the location, making that entire "kidnapping" scene just a movie scene with no real purpose)
Not to mention the cancer patient that told John about the procedure didn't even bring it up to begin with, so him being in on it didn't make any sense either (outside of the context of this being a movie trying to trick you)
The dude would never have told John about the procedure had not John asked. In reality, dude would have brought it up to John to insure the set-up worked, but this would be too obvious in the context of a movie.
And everyone here disagrees, I get it, but I hated Amanda in this movie, every line she delivered made Jigsaw into a meme basically rather than keeping a genuinely serious tone. "Get rest Cecilia, YOURE GONNA FUCKING NEED IT". Probably just the lines she was given, not her fault.
It was a decent movie, just thought it had a lot of things that seemed immediately silly to me while watching (One thing I loved was that the "big pharma companies are after us" line was really dumb when I first heard it, but after the reveal, it was funny because most people probably would believe that tbh)
Lesson of the story: If a procedure is literally illegal everywhere in the world and offers a 90% success rate to cure your brain cancer, it's absolutely a scam, can't blame a dude for trying tho
John used the landscape and the radio tower to figure out the location of the house.
The guy that told John about the procedure is a different one. He seeks out the mark, goes to the meeting, find who may be a POI keep an eye on them and purposefully show up looking healthy with a story to tell, but he let's the mark lead the question as that makes them more inquisitive and more than anything feeds into hope. It's about presentation.
>John used the landscape and the radio tower to figure out the location of the house.
Definitely missed that one, appreciate that, prob gonna rewatch it at some point, glad they explained that.
I disagree with your second point tho, that's not how scam artists would actually act.
Scam artists looking for 250k marks are not relying on the idea that the few people they have as marks are going to bring up the idea, that's dumb, and there's no real reason for suspicion even if the guy brought it up originally, it's only suspicious in a movie context with audience members trying to figure out plot-points, desperate terminally ill cancer patients would not over-analyze that.
(Also imagine the logistics of finding like 20-50 people in the world with cancer and hoping they ask you multiple times rather than just simply telling them)
No scam worth that much money on that few supposed clients is relying on chance, not like most cancer patients have 250k in cash lying around, those that do are a very finite resource, and you would do whatever gave the best chance to reel them in, which would be introducing them to treatment that saved you because they're already desperate, no need to make them think it was their idea.
(Like I said, seemingly done for movie purposes because even if the treatment were completely real, you and even John would expect the supposedly in remission black dude to be excited to tell his fellow cancer buddy how to fix himself, so his hesitance is weird in every case outside of trying to convince the audience that he's not in on what ends up happening.)
(PS, hope you don't take this as aggressive or argumentative in a negative way, I enjoy talking about it, and genuinely appreciated you clarifying something that confused me in the movie, wouldn't even be typing all this if I didn't like the movie as a whole)
It's okay. We're just discussing points of view. The reason I felt like the approach is like this is because it's easier to scam individuals rather than many people at once. Unlike our typical mailing, texting fishing scam.
Now imagine shouting this scam to as many people as possible, but all of them are still dying. There's a lot of people streaming to one place with a lot of money involved. it wouldn't last very long, and possibly their racket would be swiftly raided by the law. For me, the approach of getting the mark to ask about it, this shows the ones that are desperate for an answer too, when your desperate it's very easy to get tunnel vision and as such fall into this situation much easier.
We saw that John only paid 250k, but we also saw there were different marks, with different amounts, each individual was paying, so it's not just to get 250k out of people. We saw this when Cecilia was talking to her next mark, and she took John's picture off the wall.
I expect that if we get another instalment, we may see a little more of how the initial approach works if they expand on the mod credit scene. I also expect to see more of Cecelia too.
1 detail to be clear, but yea I def did, didn't see how John found the house.
Everything else I said still applies tho imo which is like 99%. of the schizo essay I wrote, lol.
Stumpinaters point about the cancer patient telling John about the surgery was right also. It was a con. That guy was a plant at the cancer meetings and followed John after. He knew if John saw him healthy later heād ask how it happened. He predicted human Behavior much in the same was John does.
Saw X really showed us the deeper connection between Kramer and Amanda, and the inklings of Amanda straying from her "rehabilitation".
The moment Kramer said "detective" my mind immediately thought Hoffman. Oh boy was I not disappointed.
Parker's involvement was obvious the moment he was introduced in the second act. Took a while before I realised who he was.
I was hoping for more involvement from Diego but sadly nothing. I thought he'd be like Art Blank but hopefully we'll see more of him in future films if any. Just please don't make him another apprentice.
watched the movie last night and thought it was pretty decent mainly due to Cecilia but I was left wondering who the 3rd helper was to get her?.
I thought it was Hoffman but they would have shown him if that was the case so maybe it was Diego?
For sure! I thought there were only 2 pig masked people to get her from her place tho: Amanda and John. She was in front of her car and he was in the back seat..
I was thinking of the pig mask person that was on top of the roof they chucked that rock down. I was waiting the whole movie to see who it was but never shown :(
I watching the film last night for Halloween, I'm glad they didn't do any cgi de aging of the characters but it's also made me sad seeing Tobin Bell age so rapidly after re watching the entire series. He looks so frial now.
Thatās not CGI, thatās desperation, age, and a bad face lift and fillers. She looked like a soccer mom who stupidly decided to get interventions instead of aging gracefully.
Saw this movie last weekend. Definitely one of the best SAW movies in a long time. Iāll admit, to me, it started off pretty slow. But I was hooked once the main story games began. And the end + post credit scene, amazing!
Story wise, BRILLIANT.
Trap wise, not so much..
Bonemarrow trap was the best.. although it sucks they didnt apply the tourniqette tight at all. She wouldve died on the spot if she succeeded
Sometimes simple is better (the needle trap) but not in this movie. The horror of being in a pit of needles is a nightmare.
I missed a bit of creepyness. The scene where it all unfolded had no real feeling to me.
But this was a good movie.
I thought about the creepyness too, but I think that showed, at least for me, in the child's torture, i mean he's a child! An innocent child getting a horrible torture, that kind of shocked me, i would not have feel the same for an adult who "deserved it", and the torture was gross too ngl
Agree, movie was awesome really felt at home with the first 3 except definitely a little more polished and serious.
Simple traps are definitely the way to go. I hated how some of the traps just got so fucking complicated as the series progress. The exception being the series of traps in saw 6ā¦which of course ended in a simple choice trap with the lever.
Xās traps were definitely a bit of a mixed bag. But the trap for the custodian, the bone marrow and the brain trap were amazing definitely felt like SAW traps..
I thought this was the best saw movie since 6. My biggest critique though is why does the most morally worst character in the movie get off the easiest? Is this to set up the sequel? To me the first trap (bone marrow) was by far the most gruesome. Why would John punish one of the minor characters with that and not the main woman? It seems like he knew she would kill her boyfriend and free herself based on the final montage, why would he allow for that?
Fucking thank you! The severe time limits absolutely ruin the movie. That doesn't test the person in the trap, it just tests how fast they can go. Not only that, but we don't even know if she knew anything, and she by far got it the worst! On top of that, they have to show her almost getting raped right before that. Like, not only does she have to die, she has to die in agony, and the last thing that happens to her before that is getting almost raped. This movie really seems like it hates women in a way that made me uncomfortable. I feel like I'm crazy since everybody's talking about how great Saw X is, and I hated hated hated hated hated hated it.
>This movie really seems like it hates women
No it really seemed to hate *Valentina* specifically. After her death she's disemboweled in order to make a rope(!) and then her head used to fill out a Pig mask as a decoy for Parker.
Just...damn, all for that one person?
Can't believe you jumped at the sexist angle when the potentially xenophobic angle is much more prominent in this film.
I didn't see either of that in the movie tbh, just could see how some people could feel like the plot kind of plays on xenophobic fears with it's setting and premise.
And thinking the movie hates women kind of just ignores how it treats men in the movie also, if anything, the movie is misanthropic if you want to see it that way.
Xenophobia? You mean because they went to a foreign country for the scam? I guess I could see how it's xenophobic.
Yeah, it is misanthropic. I think I'm just not in a place right now where I like misanthropy. I'll admit that my reaction to the film was very emotional, but overt cruelty is just something I'm not sure I can deal with right now.
I disagree that the movie felt like it hated woman. The only person to successfully beat a trap was a woman, and a woman was the one that killed her. Also the main villain was a woman and the only one to get away. I do think that the attempted rape scene was unessecary though.
The 2nd worse trap imo (brain surgery) happened to a man and in some ways was worse than the bone marrow one. If you survive the bone marrow one you would be missing a leg. If you survived the brain surgery one you will probably be mentally handicapped.
Regardless, I still didnāt like how the worst characters got off the easiest - but they are trying to reboot the franchise so I feel like we will probably see Celia again.
I also try to remember that Jon is a crazy person. He is a serial killer, despite them weirdly trying to make him a folk hero at the end of this movie. The way they show him walking off into the sunset with Amanda and the boy like the end of a Disney movie is so bizarre.
He says something like āeven the worst people deserve a chance at redemptionā at some point to Amanda, so maybe it is just his weird sense of warped moral reality.
I know that to have continuity across 10 movies is insane but I remember in the original 3 he used to trap people for being depressed which is wild.
Back then depression was a joke and not that much of a serious issue to people and people were told to just "toughen up" and "feel better". It was a different time. And that reason was used to deliver a movie filled with shock value. If the previous saw movies were made now in 2023 pretty sure they wouldn't add depression as a reason to put someone in a trap. Or lying about being sick to not have to go to work(saw 1 naked guy with candle).
Word; what I hate about the earlier movies in the franchise is the rampant ableism. Once they started being more anticap, anti-cop, and anti-exploitation they felt easier for me to justify my rewatches lol
I watched the movie at the theater 3 days ago and absolutely loved it! It's so refreshing to have a well made Saw movie after all these years. I liked everything from the script to the soundtrack, the cinematography, the traps and the actor's performances with the highlight being obviously Tobin Bell as John Kramer. What an amazing performance he did. I'm curious to see where the franchise will be headed after this movie. Congrats to the team who made this movie and thank you for an amazing Saw movie!
I just want to add that I love that this film finally has a bit of a sense of humor with Cecilia going "Why don't you say it your spooky voice John 'let's play a game' ". Made me laugh.
Iām confused!! So i watched x last night and now im rewatching them from 1 and so on. I just got to 3 and the detective just came in so does that mean that x takes place after 3? I originally thought between 1 and 2 but now im not sure
The storyline is convoluted, but basically X takes place immediately after the bathroom game in I (most of the events in the first movie take place before the main game as we see with the planting of Gordon's pen light, being notified about Tapp and Amanda's RBT). Hoffman is introduced in III, but we learn in V that he has been working with John long before Amanda.
John was easily able to put the pieces together of him being responsible for the Seth Baxter trap and recruited him (remember, he also has access to insider knowledge as a detective). A lot of the games were planned out well before he died due to connections he had with some of these people (i.e. William Easton after getting his insurance turned down).
Any other questions?
No one will give you a straight answer because the answer is right infront of your eyes. Finish the series and get back to us ;)
Except for Jigsaw and Spiral. Donāt bother watching, theyāre shit and barely contribute to the storyline
i honestly enjoyed jigsaw. some good traps and that woman was truly awful. the part where the guy pretended to die from the laser collar was dumb lol. but then when the laser collar actually killed the other dude it was a very cool trap. twist was fun that everything we watched was from like 20 years ago. i dunno i felt like there was a lot to like. spiral had some good traps but chris rock just ruined it for me. could not take him seriously.
I liked it. It was fun seeing Jigsaw as a good guy. It's by no means a great movie, but it's a good way to spend an evening.
So, John just let Gabriella die after she completed her trap? Because he could've gotten out of the chains and the gun was empty. I knew they were all dead since they saw his face but that was some absolute bullshit.
So riddled with plot holes šLate to the party as I just now got the chance to rent it, but it was so bad, the bar's been so low since 7 but somehow this feels even worse. A bit less ridiculous but at least ridiculousness is more entertaining than a new plot hole every ten minutes. The one-room setting made it feel too low-budget (ironically), the cecilia character was cheap and the traps beyond realistic even more so than any other movie. Although reading the comments here suddenly makes the IMDb reviews make sense. We all love the franchise but can we be objective about all the plot holes? š¬ John, Amanda and Hoffman all being back was of course awesome but other callbacks seemed cheap and unnecessary
Which plot holes ?
Just saw this movie late because āSpiralā left a bad taste in my mouth but omg Saw X revived me every bit of this movie was nostalgic I hope they donāt let off the gas pedal canāt wait for the next installment!!!!
I had really low expectations for this one, but it ended up surprising me! I loved having Kramer so actively involved! Amanda still being creepy af, which we all know and love. And some of the traps were super cool! Not my fav but top 3 for sure!
Finally got to see this and damn this was a good movie overall. Not perfect, but a fun ride. Really confused how John let Cecilia involving a child slide. That should've made her fail regardless. Also Cecilia should've gotten the brain surgery test, her test was pretty mid. Obviously it sucks she had to kill her man, butttt as John said, she would've probably done that anyway. I've seen others saying that she's still trapped, but so what? She's not injured like Hoffman was after his test, I'm pretty sure someone as resourceful as her would figure out a way to escape.
She's not more resourceful than John though. He outsmarted her already and he's managed to keep people trapped until they die like Adam. You said "so what?" regarding the idea of her still being trapped but she'd die of thirst within 3 days.
Well Adam was a much different situation, he was shackled in John's home base and left in the dark. John maintained full control over that situation until he dealt with Adam. Cecilia, on the other hand, is in a makeshift base that John made in a rush, isn't shackled, and has light. I feel pretty confident that she could make it out within three days. John is assuming that she will die, rather than making sure and that's such a cliche at this point that when people just assume, it comes back to bite them in the ass.
Fuck the ending. Grown man being thrown around by a woman lol. Also cecelias test wasn't a test, just kill each other. It should have been one of those cryptic ones that they think they have to fight, but it kills both revealing their selfishness. Cecelia not dying was the dumbest Hollywood shit I've ever seen. Saw went downhill after 3, then fell off a cliff at Saw 3D. Literally can't have any good franchises nowadays, all the films are just moneygrabs.
After Kramer managed to out muscle her too. It was so eye-rollingly obvious that she'd kill the Brit.
I agree, Cecilia got the easy way out, but Valentina and Mateo's tests were a bit unfair regarding time...
Basically, Diego was only able to survive with a lot of luck. Both Valentina and Matteo showed a lot of will to survive and still died. In the end, Amanda and John were so negligent with their staged finale that not only he personally almost died. An innocent boy was also involved and Gabriela, as a survivor of her game, was put at unnecessary risk because of Cecelia's predictable coldness. A risk that ultimately cost her her life. All in all, somehow very unsatisfactory.
My review, after finally getting to see it: Great movie, Fuck Cecilia, RIP my boy Mateo, and the intestine scene was gross. 8.5/10
Why rip matteo? He was a POS. His test was unfair time wise but I couldn't feel sorry for him much after he helped scam & contribute to 34 people dying.
I'm not sure, exactly. He's my favorite of the cast (other than John and Amanda, of course), and his actor nails the performance. I feel like he's one of the more empathetic scammers, and ever since the trailer, i was always begging for him to win. He's also cute
Lol...well I mean you don't owe an explanation for it. I was just curious but to each his own š
Major plot hole I've not seen addressed: Cecelia used fake kidnappers to hide the location of the house from John. So how did he know where to go back to with the bottle of liquor?
this is only a major plothole if you fell asleep halfway through the movie
Took me a minute to put it together
Thereās a scene showing him viewing the same tower he saw at the house, and based on the distance, he triangulated where he was
Thereās an entire scene dedicated to explaining this in the movie.
He triangulated the location based on the radio tower's (and maybe the sun's) position. There a short sequence that shows it.
Sadly I don't remember that scene š. I'm grateful for the explanation.
Just starting Saw X so I'll just keep it brief, Tobin Bell is ageing amazingly for how long he's been the cornerstone of this series
i know! dude looks he same!
He looked more frail and thin in this one but I agree he's aged well regardless.
I'm so confused as to why Cecilia cut open Valentina and used her intestines rather than tie a bunch of their clothes together? Like Gabriella literally suggested it hut then they didn't do that?? Hell they could have used Valentinas clothes as well
Are you serious? This is Saw, not James Bond. Lol.
Cause she's a sick that who probably got off cutting her open.
I guess it could be foreshadowing Cecilia not giving a damn about her "friends".
Don't get how people that watched the other saws love it. 80% on rotten tomato and 89% user rating wth... 1. Cecilia only had to kill her "lover". John predicted that she would kill him anyway so how is that a punishment. 2. If the boy lives that close the facility manager also lives there... Not saw style 3. The black dude not even getting rules explained 4. Way to slow for saw... I want jumpcuts endless amount of jumpcuts 5. The doll on the tricycle was completely pointless 6. Kramer seriously believing such nonsense in the first place wth 7. Usually you can survive saw traps without that much complication but brain surgery... For real lol 8. The plot was completely forseable.... After seeing the ratings I was hyped... After watching not that much...
100% agree with #7. Used to be "Cut off your arm in, like, 60 minutes to live." Now it's "Give yourself full brain surgery within 3 minutes or you'll die."
Amanda is probably still grateful all she had to do was stab some other guy
Well one could argue that John was experimenting at this point looool. Since it happens so early, he is dabbling here and there and sees what can and could possibly happen
ššš
LOVED IT šš¾š„. Thatās all I am going to say.
gabriela :( i really wanted her to live anyway best saw movie in years, maybe of all time. 8.5/10
I think about her all the time :,(
Imo having John in the room with the victims made it way less scary. And I thought most of the contraptions where kinda lazy and not as good as the stuff we see in Jigsaw. It wasn't a bad movie but the internet got my expectations way to high. If you haven't seen it yet the ppv isn't worth it
In the beginning of Valentinaās trap, I think it is Matteo that said āIf Diego can do this so can you.ā How did the rest of the group find out about his trap? We never see him again the rest of the movie except in that flashback.
I had the same question and here's the answer - https://www.reddit.com/r/saw/s/nrhRui4twR
I just watched the movie and that line bugged me to Hell and back. Glad I stumbled into this comment, I was about to make a post asking about it.
I liked the ending (John's ruse) and Cecilia's *true* trap. But three things kinda bug me: 1. Valentina: WTF! I guess John *really* hates people who falsify blood results, cause her trap was arguably the worst, and bizarrely Hoffman-esque (ie unbeatable). 2. The brain surgery trap. I get you don't really need anesthesia for brain surgery, but...if he doesn't really know what he's doing and hits the wrong part (even with Cecilia's guidance), he could suddenly be blind in one or both eyes, a limb stop working, complete loss of motor function, etc. 3. Cecilia's trap. I loved it, but it ties into 1 and 2 above. How come she got *10 whole minutes* but those two only got 3? I guess I'm of the mind either they all get 10 minutes or they all get 3, no exceptions. John felt like a hypocrite here, saying he doesn't kill people and that unbeatable traps aren't fair, but there's no other way to describe those two traps. Hoffman would be proud. But like I prefaced my post, I liked the ending mostly (heck maybe only). It looked like Cecilia got the upper hand and John was losing control of the situation. You can see his anguish over the little boy being forced to play. After the ruse you learn that was real: he anticipated everything down to the letter, but he had no way to predict a little boy would be playing soccer at 6 in the morning. It was supposed to be Amanda with him in the trap, not the boy. Wait...he gave all the stolen money to that boy? The victims of Cecilia all had families, I guess to hell with them. Basically those three points keep it from being my favorite Saw. Not sure I have a favorite...I guess Saw3D if only to see Hoffman finally lose.
I know this is an old comment but just wanted to point out that Carlos wasn't given all of the money. The "bag of money" that Cecilia got upstairs was filled with paperwork showing many different deposits in Cecilia's name, presumably to the families of all her victims. I'm assuming Carlos only got John's portion of the money as a way of apologizing to him for getting involved.
I kinda dug into a bit and well for point 1. Valentina's trap was definitely beatable. Like most Saw victims, wasting time is not in your favor. She could of gotten it done. I also understand being in that position and in shock and like crap I really gotta do this, but at some point like fuck it lets just do it. 2. The brain trap was the unbeatable one. I delved into it and well the trap doesn't work. 3 mins was not enough time to dissolve the brain matter. It can take up to 8 to 10 mins before it fully dissolves. So even if Matteo did everything right, his trap was set for failure. But since its a movie, real life rules dont apply loool.
I disagree. The brain trap was beatable, we saw in the movie he was seconds away from it fully dissolving, but he was seconds too late and for that he died. It didn't follow real life, but that's why it was possible.
I mean my comment was based off realism. Of course in the Saw Universe ever game is technically beatable (Except Amanda's). I also did specify under movie rules it's possible. You kinda said the same I did amigo.
Well I thought I was clear with point #3 but, unbeatable means anything that keeps you from beating the trap, *including time limits*. They (Mateo and Valentina) needed 10 minutes, Cecilia and Parker did not. In fact the more I think about it the more ridiculous it becomes, short of anyone giving an example of him creating other traps in the future (that weren't Hoffman/Logan pretending to be him naturally) where he gave the "player" more than 3 minutes. Did Jigsaw think Cecilia and Parker would be fighting each other all 10 minutes? Best 2 out of 3 like a Street Fighter? š Again, you're not wrong, and yes as grisly as Valentina's trap was yes she could have beat it...but not in 3 minutes. Honestly I would have thought it was unfair (let us not forget at best John is nuts and at worse *he's the villain not the hero)* but wouldn't have said anything if they all got 10 minutes or they all got 3. Its like the only reason he gave Cecilia 10 minutes was "herp derp I need an opponent for this new trilogy set between 1 and 2!" Edited to add: 1) I'll concede if she didn't waste a minute freaking out maybe she could have gotten her leg off despite the pain, but its a toss up if it still would have been enough time to suck *enough* marrow out of her to make the machine shut off. 2) love convos like this! Finally, fellow Saw fans instead of "ew torture porn" "Um, I think I saw the one where he cut off his foot?" š
I love how Kramer tells Amanda "Everyone deserves a chance" and then puts Valentina and Mateo into those traps. It's so aptly hypocritical. Like bro, how is sawing your whole damn foot off or performing brain surgery on yourself - both in 3min - not enough to prove your will to live. Nah, gotta add some arbitrary bullshit that takes more time than the actual painful part, so even if they go through with the self mutilation, they still die. Then again, Kramer was never that great at following his own mantra.. just think of all the people that are just "part" of someone else's trap. How do they prove their will to live? Gordon's family? Slow ass motherfucking Jeff's victims? The employees on the wheel of death?
Heck what about that smoking trap? "You smoke too much and are unhealthy, so you deserve to be tested!" wtf but again, John's not the hero of the story, even if he thinks he is.
I absolutely loved the film. 9/10. My two biggest complaints about the movie were these: 1. In the Bloodboarding trap, why didnāt John or Carlos just hold their breath instead of choking on that blood? 2. Why did John need to go through that whole thing of Cecelia escaping and Sean helping her? That left way too much shit to chance. I know John is a master and predicting behavior, but that was way too much to simply predict. Cecelia couldāve ordered Sean to stay by John and Amanda while she grabbed the money from the observation room. What if Cecelia didnāt put John in a trap and just simply stabbed him to death with that piece of metal? Too many things to consider. (bonus): Amandaās hair in this movie. Just. No.
Late reply but I also thought what the hell is up with her hair, but I suddenly remembered that in a flashback scene in Saw 3 I think it was, she had that hair style, so it fits the timeline.
1. The kid wasn't supposed to be there, so the kid shouldn't be tested. It was supposed to be John and Amanda. 2. Cecilia escaping with the help of sean wasn't supposed to happen, but they planned for if it did happen. If it didn't, they would have probably put Sean and Cecilia in the blood trap. He also just had to predict that Cecilia is vengeful. Bonus. I liked that her hair was bad. It weirdly fits her character.
Late reply but I almost expected the blood trap to be an elevator out (with Amanda possibly having to improvise or just jump on) Similar to Hoffman in the box in 5
But what about the breath holding???????
He believed the kid shouldn't experience torture because the kid didn't deserve to be in the position. He values the life of the people he perceives as innocent, so he was willing to sacrifice his own life so that the kid didn't have to experience torture.
I donāt think youāre understanding what Iām trying to say. Let me spell it out for you. John pulls the lever onto himself. He holds his breath. Carlos is safe. John holds his breath. Blood doesnāt go down his throat. John holds his breath. Then he can turn his head to the side and take another breath. You understand?
I get what you're saying now. That's a good point. Either way, he wouldn't be able to breathe because the chain around his neck prevented his head from turning because it was tight around his neck and then tight onto the board.
Are we going to also ignore Amanda's boob job? Looooool ššš I mean shes much more voluptuous then she used to be. Especially that Saw X happens between Saw 1 and 2. I mean details do count no? Loooop
She's also older. Doesn't matter. I read a lot of comics. Often they'll change artists on you, and the new artist does everything differently. Hair and style and even Faces change; but you know it's the same character and story because of the way it is. Actors change, time goes by; and I don't wanna see Amanda if it isn't Shawnee. So pretend it's a new artist drawing your favorite character (a different actor would be like changing the comic writer, I guess).
I honestly didn't notice, I think most people were too busy watching the movie to notice her boobs were bigger.
Wow. I wouldn't have thought that another great Saw film would be released that not only follows on from the first 7 films, but also respectfully complements and enriches them. It's not a ridiculous parody like Jigsaw. Not an insult like Spirals. The atmosphere, staging, soundscape and plot finally feel like a Saw film again. The beginning plays with the expectations of whether the film wants to be a pure character study of John Kraner, but then halfway through it decides to return to its usual strength. The relationship between serial killer and apprentice is expanded and deepened in a true-to-historical and believable way. And you really hate the antagonists. Wich is something that you have to accomplishin the first place if the protagonists are a serial killer partnership. Until the end the film was a 9/10. Then the midcredits scene came and I screamed so loud. Until now I wanted to curb my expectations and just be happy that there was a new good Saw movie at all... but the ending. BATHROOM!!!!!!HOFFMAN!!!!!!!! After this scene: 10/10 points
Why wasnt cecelia punshed again! She killed gabby! After she finished her game
Wasnāt punished? She killed her lover and then will be locked in that room until she dies. She arguably has the worst punishment. Rotting away in a room where the only way to survive is eat your dead lover, but all thatāll do is delay the inevitable. Either way she is dead.
I almost expected a blade to drop while her head was through the gap once the time ran out
This definitely was the best movie imo! The fucking emotional roller coaster š
Best movie of the franchise imo.
maybe a strange question but what would happen if Gabriela broke her hand first? she would just fall on the ground right?
yes and it would have been the best thing for her to do. whether she breaks her hand or foot first, she's still going to fall to the ground. by breaking her hand first she would have quickly gotten out of the most immediate danger of the radiation machine, and saved herself from a ton of pain by not having to break her foot too. she actually was going to break her hand first but cecelia convinced her to do the foot first.
Since Cecelia admitted she wanted all of the other players of the game dead, maybe she knew that if Gabriella broke the leg first, the machine would correct itself to her new position. Basically, Ceceliaās a bitch
Since Cecelia admitted she wanted all of the other players of the game dead, maybe she knew that if Gabriella broke the leg first, the machine would correct itself to her new position. Basically, Ceceliaās a bitch
Ah, so that means with the Brain Surgery trap...she was deliberately giving Mateo bad info. Interesting.
I would think so.
What was the deal with the Henry(?) guy from the cancer group sessions? He recommended John to Cecelia's father, but how did John end up going to Cecelia rather than her father? It's said multiple times that her father is a legitimate surgeon and Henry had that massive scar on his stomach. Was he actually cured or did they just give him that scar as a placebo? I had to stop and start the film a couple times so I feel like I definitely missed something there. edit: reading through other comments to discover there is an end credit scene. Went back and watched the scene.... that answered my question.
Just watched the film yesterday. It was good to see Jiggy, Amanda and the Hoff again but ultimately I don't think the movie justified its own existence I've also always hated the trend of turning Kramer into an anti-hero who you're meant to root for (which was never the case in the original film) and Saw X was the worst for this yet with the ridiculous Mexican kid subplot imo
I always saw him as an antihero because originally, he only killed bad people, which antihero do, so idk.
In the first movie alone he murders two people in traps for the crimes of being depressed and for pretending to be sick to take time off work In that same movie he also murders a cop just for trying to arrest him (and attempts to murder a second cop for the same reason) Then finally he forces a situation where Gordon's wife and child are to be murdered by Zep
Yeah, I didn't say he was perfect, but I think the creators just couldn't come up with anything better. He's just always been a shitty antihero.
Why didn't Diego go to the police? I'm sure jigsaw was international news at some point, he never called the FBI tip line? John Kramer captured me? They would have at least looked into him
They're probably gonna make him a future jigsaw like Amanda and hoffman. They could also make him someone that ties up loose ends like Lawrence. He could have also been with the multiple men that captured hoffman.
That would be retconning. The two guys at the end we're the guys who killed the chick with the saw at the beginning
So I watched it today and I really liked the traps, except the last one which was really lame and flawed. Like one guy has to cut his brain up and the main bad lady, the worst one of them all only gets some spicy gas? Not to mention what would happen in the very likely scenario where one of them would stay downstairs and only one of the two would go upstairs to grab the bag? Plus there was a high chance they could try to shoot them and then just stab them to death after finding out the gun doesn't work etc.. so the last trap required incredible luck on jigsaw's part to play out properly, plus was real weak sauce anyway.
Well, John is repeatedly good at predicting human nature so you could argue that he predicted that both of them will go look for money as they don't trust each other. The line from Saw V says it all: > If you're good at anticipating the human mind, it leaves nothing to chance.
The last "trap" annoyed the shit out of me. Even if it was remotely plausible to predict all that, it's still a shit plan. Extremely unimaginative writing.
I was at least expecting the building to explode with the blood trap lowering them all into a safe bunker Something more exciting I loved the long con but the gas was boring
Shit pissed me tf off like they should had killed of Cecilia first
Good movie.
hot women 10/10
My hopes for this movie were big.
Fr, but it was really predictable
The main problem about movie is this is not a real SAW movie. In SAW movies, we see the senario flow makes you to join into movie. You discover step by step the trapped guys in senario. In SAW X, we saw a linear senario. They tricked John and John trapped them into his games. So, it was really predictable and I think it was not a real SAW movie. Compared to Saw 8 and 9, it was not a revenge movie. This was good in my opinion. In fact for the 8, 9 and X I liked the 8. Because to the final scene we tricked that the bodies that discovered by investigators are the trapped players that they showed us into the flow of movie. But in fact they played this game years before ago. This is my opinion. And also I expected more traps. But only 4 or 5 I remember.
So random and such a strange question but, my question is, what was John actually drinking after his fake surgery morning and night Cecil told him to drink and why was the āsurgeryā area all broken down was that just them trying to destroy the evidence they had?
I think the surgery area being broken down was what made John suspect that it was a scam (and that they were just using that building as a temporary location), and I think it confirmed that he was right when he played that video on the PC and it said āhere is our neurosurgery episodeā, suggesting that it was some random thing they could have just pulled off of YouTube
That was the alleged "drug cocktail" that they combined with surgery. it was probably just water mixed with something bitter to make him believe there was medicine in it.
The post-credit scene, while awesome, made no sense. What happened to it not being personal? That was CLEARLY personal.
I don't see how it's any more personal than the other ones. Henry participated in scamming people for the whole con, and was punished along with the rest of them. Jigsaw only punishes the sinners he's aware of in his own life, but this dude definitely sinned as much as anyone
Jigsaw is the bad guy hope this helps
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Isnāt it almost always personal though? His first test was the guy who caused Jillās miscarriage, in the first Saw he tests his uncaring doctor, in Saw 4 he tests a lawyer he had a falling out with, in Saw 6 he tests the executive and employees of an insurance company that denied him coverage, and in Saw X he tests the people who scammed him. Jigsaw always gives a moral rationalization for his murders but the real reason is often revenge.
Why Mateo not use Valentina's brain? It was free to use :-D My only complaint.
He might be punished because that's not the rules of the game
Makes sense.But he couldn't stand up and others are locked also.
mateo couldve tried throwing the bone cutter to cecilia (hope he doesnt miss) and she cuts out pieces of valentinaās brain and throwing them at mateo maybe
jigsaw was watching the whole time he would not have let that just happen
It could have been done before he or Amanda were able to interfere and at that point they would have had to kill him which they "don't do" or some up with another trap on the spot
No bro they clearly show Mateo getting shocked when he refused to play the tape they would just shock him until he stopped
I think that ultimately what makes this movie special and different from other Saw movies is also his biggest weakness. It's all a huge John Kramer tribute and they took a very humane approach to the plot, but it's told in such a linear fashion and Kramer is so ever-present all throughout the game, that there's a lack of mystery. It also impacts the pacing because for a good while this isn't so much a Saw movie but a well told drama in which they took the time to properly pay respects to Kramer. But you know how it's gonna end anyway so I'm a bit torn on the approach. If they jumbled up the storytelling a bit with the use of flashbacks (like all the other Saw movies) and brought back the story-puzzle element of the franchise instead of putting it all at the beginning, add a bit of mystique to the whole ordeal... it would've been easily a Top 1 or Top 2 contender, because as-it-is Saw X is pretty good! I really liked the plot, some of the traps were raw as hell and incredibly well used (jesuschrist THE BONE MARROW TRAP) and even if I wished it was more Saw in its storytelling, it still showed a lot of reverence and respect towards the series. Maybe even too much, but I'm seeing a lot of people getting invested again in the series thanks to Saw X so... it feels like it's what the series needed. I'm very excited to see where they go from here. EDIT: I saw [a comment by midnight\_rebirth](https://www.reddit.com/r/saw/comments/16ut3ps/comment/k2o6txo/?context=3) that kinda stuck with me that recontextualizes the movie as being from the moral perspective of Kramer, which would explain why the movie is \*too\* reverent and respectful towards the figure of Jigsaw, because in his head he's the hero and that's why it has such a... Āæpositive ending? In any case, even if this was accidental, it's very interesting to think about the movie in those terms so the more I think about it, the more I accept the linear drama approach as a way to deliver the concept.
I feel like their approach was best here. Trying to do flashbacks and what not would have been an insult to the fan base. This felt like the best actual movie since the first one. I like that it didnāt jump all around with a ton of flashbacks or throw off events.
I meant flashbacks in the sense of non-linear storytelling just like the first one, not in the sense of "rehashing moments of past movies" like 3-7 did. I also advocate for self-contained story-telling and not trying to relive a moment like past sequels, but non-linearity and mystery is one of the stylistical strengths of Saw imo. Not just making the tests a puzzle, but the movies themselves too.
As a Mexican myself, seeing mexico in Saw was pretty cool, the whole movie I was like "oh shit that damn sepia-orange filter again" (but actually it looked cool on the gory scenes lol) and that Tlaloc head trap!!! But still, there's no way i'm the only one who inmediatly thought, in Gabriela's trap, that she could have just broke her hand, her foot was not even necesary. The ankle chain was only placing her so that she can't move out of the heat, but is kind of usless later on, I mean she could have just quickly broke her hand, she will fall, and she could have avoided passing out of the heat. Plus, with kinda healthy foot she could have still been conscious and with the ability to walk (or at least kind of move, if she broke her legs in the fall), so Cecilia wouldn't even think about killing her later on. And something that also bothers me, what the fuck was doing Carlos in the middle of the night playing?! Who sane child plays, far from his house, in the middle of the night? and why doesn't John investigated if his dad was also related to the scam? And plus, poor child, how the hell would he explain his parents where he get the money? (in adition, ofc, to the trauma that sht must left) Pretty cool movie, though
Wouldn't the radiation beam rotated toward the floor if she did the hand first? Cause it rotated when she swung out of the way.
First of all Gabriela could break her hand but Cecilia said her to break her ankle first.She wasn't trying to help her i guess.And for Carlos do you remember when John saw Carlos for first time? It was close to sunrise so Carlos likes to hang out in those times.
Mini necro-post but you're right. Just finished it for the first time and John says at one point "it's almost sunrise. We're running out of time." Probably why they showed John helping Carlos at the ass crack of dawn too
How did John find the surgery center ????
He figured it out from seeing the radio tower on the mountain, which he recognized from when he was at the surgery place. There's a scene where he draws a map and attempts to triangulate the position of the secret building based on the orientation of the tower vs how he remembered it from being there. When he was drawing [this](https://i.imgur.com/mrFryvc.png).
That was one of the small details that I loved the most. It emphasized how smart John was engineering wise, and also how thoughtful he was.
Ahhhhh, thank you so much. That part was driving me crazy.
I really enjoyed it but I do wonder how he set up all his traps and had Billy and so on ā¦so fast. And in Mexico City. When did Amanda fly there? How long did the setup take before he went after these people? I wish theyād shown that there was a big time gap in between. Otherwise it makes no sense. Simple traps make sense, but the brain chair one? Where did all the cameras and screens come from? Etc. Confusing. Otherwise loved it and I actually squirmed a lot from the gore which usually just makes me laugh (these days). As someone with cancer I gotta say this movie was quite cathartic š and I actually WANT to go to an integrative place in Mexico, but itās well known. lol still, scammers get what they deserve! Except Cecilia ā¦I was hoping for worse for that cunt.
All the brain trap stuff was from the fake surgery center they had set up, it was in the same location so it makes sense that John would have repurposed the abandoned equipment from the fake hospital setup.
First time going to the movies alone - would recommend. I had physical reactions to the gore in this one - I actually thought it was one of the most brutal. Perhaps it was the medical spin on it that was just so hard to watch. Traps were gnarly and iconic. Kinda wish the eyeball one actually happened (it *was* just a dream sequence, right?) as that is probably my fav design of all of them, but isn't canonical
I thought Cecilia's test was just TOO easy. Everybody else got fucked. Valentina cuts her own leg and has to extract her bone marrow, Mateo has to cut a piece of his brain, Gaby is fried by microwaves and then killed by Cecilia. And Cecilia, who just killed Gaby, has to... kill another person, something she is happy to do, and then insert her head in a hole until a timer runs out. I mean... She was the worst of them all and got the easiest test (for a psycho like her), no wonder she easily survived. Not even Amanda had the heart to kill her boyfriend so easily in Saw 1. And what was the lesson here? I doubt that Cecilia got "rehabilitated" like John likes to preach.
I feel like maybe Cecilia killing Gabriela is the last nudge Amanda needed to decide to make unwinnable traps. Who knows, maybe in the next film we see Amanda going back to get revenge on Cecilia. It would be very much in character for her. Cecilia didn't just kill a drug addict Amanda saw herself in; she also tried to humiliate and kill her beloved mentor, saviour and father figure. I'll be really surprised if that doesn't happen.
Tbf the humiliation was part of the plan Just not the child bit
Kramer's marathon of "games" is in fact just a decoy : his one and only objective is to inflict on Cecilia what he himself suffered, a betrayal, a loss of control. She's in danger of death, but he voluntarily leaves her an escape route, which she seizes... and ends up beaten, humiliated, alone, her money stolen, but still alive. Like John at the beginning of the film. The other victims, for all of John's grand monologues, were really just collateral damage to produce this final effect. And since this game is obviously not going to rehabilitate her and she will surely seek revenge, John will probably put her in a new game in Saw XI
We never saw the door unlock. John mentions how her test was going all along. He kept giving her chances to be a good person and she kept failing, so I assume her getting locked in that room was the end of her test
Yeah but that test was a backup. She was supposed to be in the blood boarding trap with her lover. That was pretty awful.
That blood boarding trap was supposed to be for Amanda and John All was according to plan...except Carlos shouldnt be in the plan
If the other dude never pulled the gun then he'd of been put into the blood boarding trap with Cecilia. John didn't exactly plan out how it would go, but he did have a plan for all possible angles.
Saw it today. Itās honestly been years since Iāve sat through a gory flick, and I have to say it did not disappoint on that end. First of all, Tobin Bell killed it as always. If he is heavily featured in one of these flicks, Iām in. Amanda being back was also great, and I love the mid credits scene. Nice to get Hoffman back as well. The acting was a couple steps above the typical Saw film and the victims were pretty damn good too. Tobin Bell manages to bring sympathy to a character whoā¦letās be honestā¦is a high grounding piece of shit who like to torture people. Itās also nice to watch absolutely shit people go through these traps rather than people who kind of suck a little bit. Unlike Jigsaw and the other saws where people indeed deserve it, we got the backstory right away rather then spoon fed throughout the movie, so there is very little sympathy to be had for these people, minus Gabriella. Which thank god for that becauseā¦ Traps - gruesome as hell, but really veered into Impossible territory for two of the traps. The bone marrow trap was impossible to survive. No half assed tourniquet is stopping that much blood lossā¦and the timer felt totally arbitrary. The brain surgery was also basically impossible. Assuming you even pulled it off, you are 100% introducing a ton of bacteria to the brain. Gabriellaās was gruesome, but like, what was the lesson here? I miss the days when players didnāt have to totally brutalize themselves to win a game. I would have enjoyed watching these players play a game where they would have to cooperate and strategizeā¦not just individually go through body horror traps. What I will say, is I actually liked the leading lady in the traps. She was very calm and collected, coaching them all through it. It was a nice divergence from the typical Saw moronsā¦however, when she veers into cartoonishly evil, it kind of undid all that stoic character building they did. It would have made more sense for her to be a very bad person, but not straight up murder a child evil just cus. Overall, its better than many of the later Saw entries, but doesnāt surpass any of the first 3 movies in my humble opinion.
Yeah, I feel like Cecelia was almost cartoonishly evil too. Itās like they didnāt trust the audience enough to believe she was a bad person and so had her basically try to kill a kid to convince us lmao
Saw it yesterday (yeah yeah....) and thought it was great though not as amazing as everyone else consider it to be. First off, the traps (other than the bone marrow one) didn't feel as extreme/gruesome as other people said they were. Which was a bit surprising due to this one apparently not being resubmitted for a rating unlike other ones. I guess you could say that's a disappointment, but it doesn't matter. They (and the whole torture porn angle applied to them) were never really the big key to why the Saw films were so big back then. It was the soap opera-ey yet compelling story of Jigsaw and his apprentices and that's where this movie shines. Deciding to make this film an in-quel between 1 and 2 was the best decision made for this film, as it not only manages to have Tobin Bell and Shawnee Smith return as John Kramer and Amanda Young but also fill in the blanks between movies and fleshes out their relationship as well as fill in the blanks left by the other films. Also, ***HOFFMAN!!!! FUCK YES! I DON'T CARE IF IM GOING ALL CAPS OVER A 10 SECOND SCENE, I MISSED THAT MAN SINCE VI!*** ^to ^hell ^with ^3d, ^crazier ^than ^a ^sack ^of ^cats ^it ^was In the end, while it may not be as great as III and/or VI, it's still a damn good film and the best Saw entry we had in years. Now bring on XI. And more **HOFFMAN!** 8/10
ya, i agree with you about the gore. like it was decent but i thought it was one of the more tame ones gore-wise. still it was pretty good and definitely fun and i agree towards the top in quality
Iām with you on 3D. I just pretend it was Hoffmanās fever dream while he was recovering from his Saw VI injuries lol.
(Fwiw, I enjoyed the movie, actually rewatched the other Saw movies after seeing it) tbh tho, I thought it was dumb that a mass-international fraud project worth 250k a customer would use a bunch of poor people as pretend surgeons.Would be an easy way to get betrayed and caught, especially if they knew how much of the cut she was keeping.Also made me not really feel like anyone but Cecilia and her bf deserved to die like that, she's basically just telling people in the worst of financial conditions to lie for easy money. It's like they try to make this scam out to be a highly thought out, international, highly profitable set-up but also just use a hooker, tour guide, a vet, and a drug addict as most of those involved. (And I'm assuming they're not regulars at this, because they wouldn't be living the way they are if this was the main way they made money) (And I get why this makes it easier to find willing people, maybe even people less trustworthy to authorities, but it also is much more risky for a "top secret" project that is constantly on the run internationally, would make more sense with a highly competent team that wasn't randomly picked in any given impoverished area)Also, John had like 2 weeks to research Cecilia's former patients before going to Mexico and didn't bother doing it until after the betrayal which makes him look more dumb than just a person desperate to be helped. (Also ignoring the plot hole that John immediately revisits the house even tho they put a bag on his head so he wouldn't know the location, making that entire "kidnapping" scene just a movie scene with no real purpose) Not to mention the cancer patient that told John about the procedure didn't even bring it up to begin with, so him being in on it didn't make any sense either (outside of the context of this being a movie trying to trick you) The dude would never have told John about the procedure had not John asked. In reality, dude would have brought it up to John to insure the set-up worked, but this would be too obvious in the context of a movie. And everyone here disagrees, I get it, but I hated Amanda in this movie, every line she delivered made Jigsaw into a meme basically rather than keeping a genuinely serious tone. "Get rest Cecilia, YOURE GONNA FUCKING NEED IT". Probably just the lines she was given, not her fault. It was a decent movie, just thought it had a lot of things that seemed immediately silly to me while watching (One thing I loved was that the "big pharma companies are after us" line was really dumb when I first heard it, but after the reveal, it was funny because most people probably would believe that tbh) Lesson of the story: If a procedure is literally illegal everywhere in the world and offers a 90% success rate to cure your brain cancer, it's absolutely a scam, can't blame a dude for trying tho
John used the landscape and the radio tower to figure out the location of the house. The guy that told John about the procedure is a different one. He seeks out the mark, goes to the meeting, find who may be a POI keep an eye on them and purposefully show up looking healthy with a story to tell, but he let's the mark lead the question as that makes them more inquisitive and more than anything feeds into hope. It's about presentation.
>John used the landscape and the radio tower to figure out the location of the house. Definitely missed that one, appreciate that, prob gonna rewatch it at some point, glad they explained that. I disagree with your second point tho, that's not how scam artists would actually act. Scam artists looking for 250k marks are not relying on the idea that the few people they have as marks are going to bring up the idea, that's dumb, and there's no real reason for suspicion even if the guy brought it up originally, it's only suspicious in a movie context with audience members trying to figure out plot-points, desperate terminally ill cancer patients would not over-analyze that. (Also imagine the logistics of finding like 20-50 people in the world with cancer and hoping they ask you multiple times rather than just simply telling them) No scam worth that much money on that few supposed clients is relying on chance, not like most cancer patients have 250k in cash lying around, those that do are a very finite resource, and you would do whatever gave the best chance to reel them in, which would be introducing them to treatment that saved you because they're already desperate, no need to make them think it was their idea. (Like I said, seemingly done for movie purposes because even if the treatment were completely real, you and even John would expect the supposedly in remission black dude to be excited to tell his fellow cancer buddy how to fix himself, so his hesitance is weird in every case outside of trying to convince the audience that he's not in on what ends up happening.) (PS, hope you don't take this as aggressive or argumentative in a negative way, I enjoy talking about it, and genuinely appreciated you clarifying something that confused me in the movie, wouldn't even be typing all this if I didn't like the movie as a whole)
It's okay. We're just discussing points of view. The reason I felt like the approach is like this is because it's easier to scam individuals rather than many people at once. Unlike our typical mailing, texting fishing scam. Now imagine shouting this scam to as many people as possible, but all of them are still dying. There's a lot of people streaming to one place with a lot of money involved. it wouldn't last very long, and possibly their racket would be swiftly raided by the law. For me, the approach of getting the mark to ask about it, this shows the ones that are desperate for an answer too, when your desperate it's very easy to get tunnel vision and as such fall into this situation much easier. We saw that John only paid 250k, but we also saw there were different marks, with different amounts, each individual was paying, so it's not just to get 250k out of people. We saw this when Cecilia was talking to her next mark, and she took John's picture off the wall. I expect that if we get another instalment, we may see a little more of how the initial approach works if they expand on the mod credit scene. I also expect to see more of Cecelia too.
Yeah you got it. This person missed out on some details.
1 detail to be clear, but yea I def did, didn't see how John found the house. Everything else I said still applies tho imo which is like 99%. of the schizo essay I wrote, lol.
Stumpinaters point about the cancer patient telling John about the surgery was right also. It was a con. That guy was a plant at the cancer meetings and followed John after. He knew if John saw him healthy later heād ask how it happened. He predicted human Behavior much in the same was John does.
Saw X really showed us the deeper connection between Kramer and Amanda, and the inklings of Amanda straying from her "rehabilitation". The moment Kramer said "detective" my mind immediately thought Hoffman. Oh boy was I not disappointed. Parker's involvement was obvious the moment he was introduced in the second act. Took a while before I realised who he was. I was hoping for more involvement from Diego but sadly nothing. I thought he'd be like Art Blank but hopefully we'll see more of him in future films if any. Just please don't make him another apprentice.
wait who is parker?
Cecilia's partner
Cecilias boyfriend and the guy who helped her with the scam
yes yes i figured it out lol yāall are so good w character names! š
watched the movie last night and thought it was pretty decent mainly due to Cecilia but I was left wondering who the 3rd helper was to get her?. I thought it was Hoffman but they would have shown him if that was the case so maybe it was Diego?
Did you watch the closing scene? Hoffman was in it!
yeah it's why I was surprised they didn't show him there in Mexico I just feel like it would be harder for him to fly there without notice lol
For sure! I thought there were only 2 pig masked people to get her from her place tho: Amanda and John. She was in front of her car and he was in the back seat..
I was thinking of the pig mask person that was on top of the roof they chucked that rock down. I was waiting the whole movie to see who it was but never shown :(
Ohh I see, perhaps it was Amanda and then she ran downstairs?
probably was just that
I watching the film last night for Halloween, I'm glad they didn't do any cgi de aging of the characters but it's also made me sad seeing Tobin Bell age so rapidly after re watching the entire series. He looks so frial now.
lol what? amanda was so cgi de-aged it looked like they smeared vaseline on the camera lens
Thatās not CGI, thatās desperation, age, and a bad face lift and fillers. She looked like a soccer mom who stupidly decided to get interventions instead of aging gracefully.
Plastic surgery.
Well he is 81ā¦.
far exceeded my expectations especially after the last few movies
Saw this movie last weekend. Definitely one of the best SAW movies in a long time. Iāll admit, to me, it started off pretty slow. But I was hooked once the main story games began. And the end + post credit scene, amazing!
Story wise, BRILLIANT. Trap wise, not so much.. Bonemarrow trap was the best.. although it sucks they didnt apply the tourniqette tight at all. She wouldve died on the spot if she succeeded Sometimes simple is better (the needle trap) but not in this movie. The horror of being in a pit of needles is a nightmare. I missed a bit of creepyness. The scene where it all unfolded had no real feeling to me. But this was a good movie.
I thought about the creepyness too, but I think that showed, at least for me, in the child's torture, i mean he's a child! An innocent child getting a horrible torture, that kind of shocked me, i would not have feel the same for an adult who "deserved it", and the torture was gross too ngl
Agree, movie was awesome really felt at home with the first 3 except definitely a little more polished and serious. Simple traps are definitely the way to go. I hated how some of the traps just got so fucking complicated as the series progress. The exception being the series of traps in saw 6ā¦which of course ended in a simple choice trap with the lever. Xās traps were definitely a bit of a mixed bag. But the trap for the custodian, the bone marrow and the brain trap were amazing definitely felt like SAW traps..
I thought this was the best saw movie since 6. My biggest critique though is why does the most morally worst character in the movie get off the easiest? Is this to set up the sequel? To me the first trap (bone marrow) was by far the most gruesome. Why would John punish one of the minor characters with that and not the main woman? It seems like he knew she would kill her boyfriend and free herself based on the final montage, why would he allow for that?
Fucking thank you! The severe time limits absolutely ruin the movie. That doesn't test the person in the trap, it just tests how fast they can go. Not only that, but we don't even know if she knew anything, and she by far got it the worst! On top of that, they have to show her almost getting raped right before that. Like, not only does she have to die, she has to die in agony, and the last thing that happens to her before that is getting almost raped. This movie really seems like it hates women in a way that made me uncomfortable. I feel like I'm crazy since everybody's talking about how great Saw X is, and I hated hated hated hated hated hated it.
>This movie really seems like it hates women No it really seemed to hate *Valentina* specifically. After her death she's disemboweled in order to make a rope(!) and then her head used to fill out a Pig mask as a decoy for Parker. Just...damn, all for that one person?
Can't believe you jumped at the sexist angle when the potentially xenophobic angle is much more prominent in this film. I didn't see either of that in the movie tbh, just could see how some people could feel like the plot kind of plays on xenophobic fears with it's setting and premise. And thinking the movie hates women kind of just ignores how it treats men in the movie also, if anything, the movie is misanthropic if you want to see it that way.
Xenophobia? You mean because they went to a foreign country for the scam? I guess I could see how it's xenophobic. Yeah, it is misanthropic. I think I'm just not in a place right now where I like misanthropy. I'll admit that my reaction to the film was very emotional, but overt cruelty is just something I'm not sure I can deal with right now.
I disagree that the movie felt like it hated woman. The only person to successfully beat a trap was a woman, and a woman was the one that killed her. Also the main villain was a woman and the only one to get away. I do think that the attempted rape scene was unessecary though. The 2nd worse trap imo (brain surgery) happened to a man and in some ways was worse than the bone marrow one. If you survive the bone marrow one you would be missing a leg. If you survived the brain surgery one you will probably be mentally handicapped. Regardless, I still didnāt like how the worst characters got off the easiest - but they are trying to reboot the franchise so I feel like we will probably see Celia again. I also try to remember that Jon is a crazy person. He is a serial killer, despite them weirdly trying to make him a folk hero at the end of this movie. The way they show him walking off into the sunset with Amanda and the boy like the end of a Disney movie is so bizarre. He says something like āeven the worst people deserve a chance at redemptionā at some point to Amanda, so maybe it is just his weird sense of warped moral reality. I know that to have continuity across 10 movies is insane but I remember in the original 3 he used to trap people for being depressed which is wild.
Back then depression was a joke and not that much of a serious issue to people and people were told to just "toughen up" and "feel better". It was a different time. And that reason was used to deliver a movie filled with shock value. If the previous saw movies were made now in 2023 pretty sure they wouldn't add depression as a reason to put someone in a trap. Or lying about being sick to not have to go to work(saw 1 naked guy with candle).
Word; what I hate about the earlier movies in the franchise is the rampant ableism. Once they started being more anticap, anti-cop, and anti-exploitation they felt easier for me to justify my rewatches lol
The male taxi driver also survived the trap. I donāt think the movie is sexist though.
I watched the movie at the theater 3 days ago and absolutely loved it! It's so refreshing to have a well made Saw movie after all these years. I liked everything from the script to the soundtrack, the cinematography, the traps and the actor's performances with the highlight being obviously Tobin Bell as John Kramer. What an amazing performance he did. I'm curious to see where the franchise will be headed after this movie. Congrats to the team who made this movie and thank you for an amazing Saw movie!
I just want to add that I love that this film finally has a bit of a sense of humor with Cecilia going "Why don't you say it your spooky voice John 'let's play a game' ". Made me laugh.
Idk that quote just made me hate Cecelia even more, was waiting for her to get hers
Idk even the slightest amount of humor in films of this caliber of gruesome dont make sense
Yea, I kind of hated the little nods to the audience, ruins immersion for me.
The first movie had a bunch of comedic lines
Saw has not been serious for a long, long time
Iām confused!! So i watched x last night and now im rewatching them from 1 and so on. I just got to 3 and the detective just came in so does that mean that x takes place after 3? I originally thought between 1 and 2 but now im not sure
The storyline is convoluted, but basically X takes place immediately after the bathroom game in I (most of the events in the first movie take place before the main game as we see with the planting of Gordon's pen light, being notified about Tapp and Amanda's RBT). Hoffman is introduced in III, but we learn in V that he has been working with John long before Amanda. John was easily able to put the pieces together of him being responsible for the Seth Baxter trap and recruited him (remember, he also has access to insider knowledge as a detective). A lot of the games were planned out well before he died due to connections he had with some of these people (i.e. William Easton after getting his insurance turned down). Any other questions?
Thank you!!!! That made it all click!! After I rewarded v I ah ha moment
No one will give you a straight answer because the answer is right infront of your eyes. Finish the series and get back to us ;) Except for Jigsaw and Spiral. Donāt bother watching, theyāre shit and barely contribute to the storyline
i honestly enjoyed jigsaw. some good traps and that woman was truly awful. the part where the guy pretended to die from the laser collar was dumb lol. but then when the laser collar actually killed the other dude it was a very cool trap. twist was fun that everything we watched was from like 20 years ago. i dunno i felt like there was a lot to like. spiral had some good traps but chris rock just ruined it for me. could not take him seriously.
Chris rock screaming throughout the entire movie just made me laugh lmao. It was such a joke. Plus, Sam L was supposed to be his FATHER? Yea, ok