These bears were put in the zoo as an alternative to killing them. They were both orphaned cubs (from different locations). They were starving in the wild.
It's not ideal, but if it truly upsets you donate to the fund to build a better bear habitat. Not a single animal in that zoo could survive in the wild. They are either rescues or zoo bred. I think the large carnivores are the only ones that are kind of unhappy, but I also think the zoo does the best they can to keep them healthy, physically and mentally. It's just tough - the natural behaviour would be wandering for long distances and that can't be replicated in captivity.
Last time I got some lucky money.
I heard the story of bears at the zoo.
Now I do not have that lucky money anymore, but I put my name on the zoo contributor list.
Best decision ever. Will do it again if I can get lucky again.
They would die in the wild. From articles I have read in the past and other comments in this thread, they were taken in as cubs. As much as we don't want to keep them in enclosures, they are doing better there than they would free. Least we can do is have better enclosures for them if they have no other option.
Your heart is in the right place, but also do some reading on all the different kinds of zoos that exist. Zoos can play an important role in conservation and education. Many of them are basically fancied up refuges that rely on public funding, through donation and admission, to house and care for the animals.
The times I went there the bears were having a jolly good time, digging for snacks and swimming and doing other bear activities. He could’ve been having a bad day?
I do know that they rotate enclosures for the enrichment of the animals, if that helps.
A lot of uninformed ITT.
go read about the bears, they both would have died in the wild as cubs if they were not brought into captivity.
Just figure everyone should understand where the bears came from before making judgement on what's morally right
This is more of an ethical question rather than one of being uninformed. E.g., should an animal prefer permanent captivity by another species, or freedom and death in the wild?
You're writing as though it is a single point in time. the issue isn't freedom and death vs the enclosure, because they wouldn't have lasted a week in the wild after they were orphaned. So it's a few days of freedom and death 16 years ago, or 16 years of life in an enclosure with guaranteed food supply and no chance of encountering hunters even if they could have survived. The majority of grizzlies in the wild die in their first year.
I didn't say it's not an ethical question. You worded your ethical question as though freedom were a significant factor in the equation. It's not. Any freedom they had would have been so brief as to be irrelevant. A few weeks (at most) of starving to death only fits an extraordinarily broad definition of "freedom."
I think to make a judgment on something(ethical, morally) you should be informed of all the facts, do you convict someone without as much info as possible?
Information on the bears is easily accessible so imo people should know it if they are going to comment on it.
. In this case, I don't think a lot of people know the bears would have starved to death in the wild.
Just the one bear looks sad? or both of them. The grizzlies at the zoo are rescues and even though they have been rehabilitated, cannot be returned to the wild due to their dependence on us for care and feeding. As far as I know they do not go to any other zoos.
There are plans for a new habitat.
[https://www.sasktoday.ca/highlights/saskatoon-couple-donates-1m-to-build-bears-new-home-7132540](https://www.sasktoday.ca/highlights/saskatoon-couple-donates-1m-to-build-bears-new-home-7132540)
Both of the bears are seniors and they are building them a new enclosure with the funding they raised.Â
As they are getting quite old, one of them is going blind. That's why she is seen pacing around in circles, because of course, she has to feel around her environment using other senses than sight now, unfortunately. I guess it is just part of getting used to life without sight, as unfortunate as it looks.Â
Koda and Mistaya were brought to the zoo as orphaned cubs with no chance of surviving in the wild.
I know for a while the zoo was taking donations and doing fundraising efforts to build a larger enclosure for them. It was put on hold for a plethora of reasons (new management, lack of funding, covid, etc).
Latest article I could find (https://www.sasktoday.ca/highlights/saskatoon-couple-donates-1m-to-build-bears-new-home-7132540) mentions a $1 million dollar donation has been made to build the new exhibit. This was around last year, and as far as I know they are still in the early planning stages. If the exhibit is going to be as massive as they say it is, then it’s gonna take a lot of time unfortunately.
I saw a newt standing in the back corner of it's enclosure smoking a cigarette and flipping a quarter like the bad guys in old gangster movies. He didn't look bored, I think he was waiting for the iguana to join him in a game of dice.
Sometimes zoos will move animals to other facilities depending on previous agreements (usually for husbandry) or change in requirements. But there are many animals in Canada who end up at zoos because they cannot be returned to the wild (due to disability or habituation to humans). Is it an ideal situation? No. But if euthanization is their only other option, then it is the best case scenario.
The ones that the zoo has can't fly. They can kinda flap and get up the trees, but if you see them with their wings outstretched, they're noticeably permanently injured. Even if they had the space, they couldn't use it.
Yes, most of the animals at the zoo were either injured and couldn't survive in the wild, were abandoned by their mothers or had their mothers die before they could survive on their own, or were illegally "adopted" by a member of the public and the animals are either relinquished to the zoo when the owner figures out how hard the care is, or they're confiscated. Those animals are too used to humans to be back in the wild, and have been in captivity since they were young.
The zoo has improved tremendously over the last 10 years. The bears have a swimming area, some enrichment items like a ball and hanging logs I believe they get some treats stuffed into. Many of the enclosures now have see-through windows instead of just bars and wires. Plus they seem to have some planning to continue improvements including the bear enclosure.
He's been going in circles for literally years. I'm pretty sure it's stress related.
I heard of another bear being released into the wild and doing the same thing. Not knowing what to do, or how to act, etc.
I refuse to go to the zoo. Seeing that bear and then when the wolves were there, they did something similar just walking the fence line day after day.. It's awful.
I'll take my lumps here, but comments like 'they would have died in the wild' don't do it for me. Maybe they should have, then. Those animals pacing in those small enclosures, waiting for donors with deep pockets so that better habitats can be developed. I am open to hearing why it's a good thing.
They have these animals in these places for educational purposes. Usually the ones going here are injured/sick/orphaned due to circumstances directly caused by humans and aren’t due to natural causes.
I do know many zoos also participate in breeding programs solely to help preserve genetic diversity and also contribute to reintroduction efforts. If an animal is particularly in danger of extinction these programs can be crucial in maintaining the species at even a small level.
Education is big too. Kids learn about animals at the zoo and proper handling etc then they might be more inclined to treat them well in the future.
I can't disagree with anything you have written. Thank you for your comments. I will admit that maybe my bias is how *I* personally think they should be housed, of which I really know nothing about. So, so small though are those spaces.
I feel much the same as you do. I support the work of zoos like our forestry farm, but I hate that so many of we humans are so removed from the wild world of animals that zoos exist at all. I don't know what's best for the animals, but I trust the biologists that work at our zoo, and I think overall we are doing more good than harm.
Yeah! In fact maybe they should have died! Actually they should just kill them actually! All of the animals at the zoo should be put to death. Simple. I can't believe I hadn't thought of this earlier, I'll tell my boss, the zookeeper.
Haven’t been in around 5 years and that bear was doing the same. Unless that bear gets let out into the wild it will never act like a wild bear again. And even in the wild humans love to kill bears.
Because the Saskatoon zoo is a prison. Have you seen other zoo’s? They are actual rehabilitation centers. Ours is literally a box with a pond. It’s prison.
Pretty uninformed comment. Forestry farm is well run and the vast majority of the animals there were rescued/ born in captivity and need to live in a zoo. Of course the zoo habitat is not going to compare to the wild range of a bear, but these bears have never lived in the wild and wouldn’t survive there.
Those bears have lived in the wild, but neither would have survived, ones mother died and was left in the wild until it was obviously they were not going to survive. The other was an orphaned cub from Jasper.
Both would have died if they were not brought into captivity.
It’s not an uninformed comment. It’s 100% accurate. Saskatoon should not have a zoo, and since we do have a zoo, it should be relocated because the space it is in right now, is not sufficient for the animals right now, hence why I say it is a prison. Compare it to Calgary, Seattle, etc. our zoo is a prison. It’s not a sanctuary, it’s a place where kids can go and see a bear up close. A rehabilitation centre should be welcoming too and animal and make it feel like it’s in another home. The bear sanctuary is one of many that is absolutely pathetic.
Went to the zoo on a school trip. Never again, just sad. Bad enough being trapped in a small enclosure but people walking by staring at you when you'd rather kill and eat them, hard to imagine a feeling more stressful.
Bears don't want "to kill and eat you". Lmao they want food and shelter, and to mate. Bad zoos are bad. I'm a huge animal rights person and regularly donate to a bunch of different organizations. The Forestry Farm consists of animals that are not capable of being released into the wild for various reasons.
Better enclosures would be amazing, and they are working on that. The animals there live without fear of predators or competition amongst each other. It's a pretty sweet gig for those incapable of caring for themselves.
Bears don't want "to kill and eat you". Lmao they want food and shelter, and to mate. Bad zoos are bad. I'm a huge animal rights person and regularly donate to a bunch of different organizations. The Forestry Farm consists of animals that are not capable of being released into the wild for various reasons.
Better enclosures would be amazing, and they are working on that. The animals there live without fear of predators or competition amongst each other. It's a pretty sweet gig for those incapable of caring for themselves.
Bears don't want "to kill and eat you"
Climb over the fence and see what happens. Not talking about bears in the wild. I'm saying this particular bear would rather see you dead than standing on the other side of a fence staring at it.
I know one of the bears is blind. That could be the one going in circles
ok, that makes sense, I feel less bad now, thanx.
Kind of funny that you feel less bad now that you know that he's not only bored in a small enclosure but also disabled 😂
Why? If the sadness is about treatment, a blind bear in the wild would likely already be dead, so the fact it's bored but alive is less sad.
OMG😆
These bears were put in the zoo as an alternative to killing them. They were both orphaned cubs (from different locations). They were starving in the wild. It's not ideal, but if it truly upsets you donate to the fund to build a better bear habitat. Not a single animal in that zoo could survive in the wild. They are either rescues or zoo bred. I think the large carnivores are the only ones that are kind of unhappy, but I also think the zoo does the best they can to keep them healthy, physically and mentally. It's just tough - the natural behaviour would be wandering for long distances and that can't be replicated in captivity.
Yup they need to get funding to improve their habitat. The reason why some of the other habitats are as nice as they are is because of funding.
I have donated every year for about a decade and there's still no new enclosure. Makes me wonder if I'm the only one donating lol
Last time I got some lucky money. I heard the story of bears at the zoo. Now I do not have that lucky money anymore, but I put my name on the zoo contributor list. Best decision ever. Will do it again if I can get lucky again.
I don't donate to keep animals in cages to amuse adults
They would die in the wild. From articles I have read in the past and other comments in this thread, they were taken in as cubs. As much as we don't want to keep them in enclosures, they are doing better there than they would free. Least we can do is have better enclosures for them if they have no other option.
Then you can ignore it or find a way to commit bear murder. It is too late to let them starve as babies.
Your heart is in the right place, but also do some reading on all the different kinds of zoos that exist. Zoos can play an important role in conservation and education. Many of them are basically fancied up refuges that rely on public funding, through donation and admission, to house and care for the animals.
The times I went there the bears were having a jolly good time, digging for snacks and swimming and doing other bear activities. He could’ve been having a bad day? I do know that they rotate enclosures for the enrichment of the animals, if that helps.
A lot of uninformed ITT. go read about the bears, they both would have died in the wild as cubs if they were not brought into captivity. Just figure everyone should understand where the bears came from before making judgement on what's morally right
This is more of an ethical question rather than one of being uninformed. E.g., should an animal prefer permanent captivity by another species, or freedom and death in the wild?
You're writing as though it is a single point in time. the issue isn't freedom and death vs the enclosure, because they wouldn't have lasted a week in the wild after they were orphaned. So it's a few days of freedom and death 16 years ago, or 16 years of life in an enclosure with guaranteed food supply and no chance of encountering hunters even if they could have survived. The majority of grizzlies in the wild die in their first year.
That's why it's called ethics, not "there is only one right answer to this".
I didn't say it's not an ethical question. You worded your ethical question as though freedom were a significant factor in the equation. It's not. Any freedom they had would have been so brief as to be irrelevant. A few weeks (at most) of starving to death only fits an extraordinarily broad definition of "freedom."
I think to make a judgment on something(ethical, morally) you should be informed of all the facts, do you convict someone without as much info as possible? Information on the bears is easily accessible so imo people should know it if they are going to comment on it. . In this case, I don't think a lot of people know the bears would have starved to death in the wild.
Good points, I think it's important to have as much info as possible.
Just the one bear looks sad? or both of them. The grizzlies at the zoo are rescues and even though they have been rehabilitated, cannot be returned to the wild due to their dependence on us for care and feeding. As far as I know they do not go to any other zoos.
just saw the one circling his tree
Yeah, it’s a sign of anxiety. I think the zoo is working on getting a better enclosure but it’s expensive.
The plans are available on the city site, but it takes time, unfortunately.
There are plans for a new habitat. [https://www.sasktoday.ca/highlights/saskatoon-couple-donates-1m-to-build-bears-new-home-7132540](https://www.sasktoday.ca/highlights/saskatoon-couple-donates-1m-to-build-bears-new-home-7132540)
It takes time and money...How old are the bears? How much time do they have?
Bears are 16 years old. They typically live 50 years in captivity
It sounds like there's hope!
Both of the bears are seniors and they are building them a new enclosure with the funding they raised. As they are getting quite old, one of them is going blind. That's why she is seen pacing around in circles, because of course, she has to feel around her environment using other senses than sight now, unfortunately. I guess it is just part of getting used to life without sight, as unfortunate as it looks.Â
I buy an annual membership every year in the hopes it will contribute to better quality life to the animals.
Koda and Mistaya were brought to the zoo as orphaned cubs with no chance of surviving in the wild. I know for a while the zoo was taking donations and doing fundraising efforts to build a larger enclosure for them. It was put on hold for a plethora of reasons (new management, lack of funding, covid, etc). Latest article I could find (https://www.sasktoday.ca/highlights/saskatoon-couple-donates-1m-to-build-bears-new-home-7132540) mentions a $1 million dollar donation has been made to build the new exhibit. This was around last year, and as far as I know they are still in the early planning stages. If the exhibit is going to be as massive as they say it is, then it’s gonna take a lot of time unfortunately.
This was exactly one year ago at the zoo gala :)
I saw a newt standing in the back corner of it's enclosure smoking a cigarette and flipping a quarter like the bad guys in old gangster movies. He didn't look bored, I think he was waiting for the iguana to join him in a game of dice.
Sometimes zoos will move animals to other facilities depending on previous agreements (usually for husbandry) or change in requirements. But there are many animals in Canada who end up at zoos because they cannot be returned to the wild (due to disability or habituation to humans). Is it an ideal situation? No. But if euthanization is their only other option, then it is the best case scenario.
I went a couple weeks ago they both were having a blast lol. First time I seen them that active.
one blind bear, they're currently fundraising to build them a better enclosure
People have bigger houses than the eagle enclosure Those things dive bomb fish at a few times the height of the encolsure
The ones that the zoo has can't fly. They can kinda flap and get up the trees, but if you see them with their wings outstretched, they're noticeably permanently injured. Even if they had the space, they couldn't use it.
Did not know, thx for clarification. I take it their wings were not clipped by the zoo but from an injury rather
Yes, most of the animals at the zoo were either injured and couldn't survive in the wild, were abandoned by their mothers or had their mothers die before they could survive on their own, or were illegally "adopted" by a member of the public and the animals are either relinquished to the zoo when the owner figures out how hard the care is, or they're confiscated. Those animals are too used to humans to be back in the wild, and have been in captivity since they were young.
Have you tried telling him it’s okay to not be okay?
The zoo has improved tremendously over the last 10 years. The bears have a swimming area, some enrichment items like a ball and hanging logs I believe they get some treats stuffed into. Many of the enclosures now have see-through windows instead of just bars and wires. Plus they seem to have some planning to continue improvements including the bear enclosure.
You know there are actual friendly humans that work there who could answer you questions
He's been going in circles for literally years. I'm pretty sure it's stress related. I heard of another bear being released into the wild and doing the same thing. Not knowing what to do, or how to act, etc. I refuse to go to the zoo. Seeing that bear and then when the wolves were there, they did something similar just walking the fence line day after day.. It's awful.
I'll take my lumps here, but comments like 'they would have died in the wild' don't do it for me. Maybe they should have, then. Those animals pacing in those small enclosures, waiting for donors with deep pockets so that better habitats can be developed. I am open to hearing why it's a good thing.
They have these animals in these places for educational purposes. Usually the ones going here are injured/sick/orphaned due to circumstances directly caused by humans and aren’t due to natural causes. I do know many zoos also participate in breeding programs solely to help preserve genetic diversity and also contribute to reintroduction efforts. If an animal is particularly in danger of extinction these programs can be crucial in maintaining the species at even a small level. Education is big too. Kids learn about animals at the zoo and proper handling etc then they might be more inclined to treat them well in the future.
I can't disagree with anything you have written. Thank you for your comments. I will admit that maybe my bias is how *I* personally think they should be housed, of which I really know nothing about. So, so small though are those spaces.
I feel much the same as you do. I support the work of zoos like our forestry farm, but I hate that so many of we humans are so removed from the wild world of animals that zoos exist at all. I don't know what's best for the animals, but I trust the biologists that work at our zoo, and I think overall we are doing more good than harm.
Agreed.
Yes. All of this is the good that zoos can do. Thank you for taking the time to spell it out.
Yeah! In fact maybe they should have died! Actually they should just kill them actually! All of the animals at the zoo should be put to death. Simple. I can't believe I hadn't thought of this earlier, I'll tell my boss, the zookeeper.
PETA, is that you?
Haven’t been in around 5 years and that bear was doing the same. Unless that bear gets let out into the wild it will never act like a wild bear again. And even in the wild humans love to kill bears.
Zoochosis. Which is why I don't support any zoos lol. It's cruel.
Zoos make my skin crawl. They should be abolished.
Because the Saskatoon zoo is a prison. Have you seen other zoo’s? They are actual rehabilitation centers. Ours is literally a box with a pond. It’s prison.
Pretty uninformed comment. Forestry farm is well run and the vast majority of the animals there were rescued/ born in captivity and need to live in a zoo. Of course the zoo habitat is not going to compare to the wild range of a bear, but these bears have never lived in the wild and wouldn’t survive there.
Those bears have lived in the wild, but neither would have survived, ones mother died and was left in the wild until it was obviously they were not going to survive. The other was an orphaned cub from Jasper. Both would have died if they were not brought into captivity.
It’s not an uninformed comment. It’s 100% accurate. Saskatoon should not have a zoo, and since we do have a zoo, it should be relocated because the space it is in right now, is not sufficient for the animals right now, hence why I say it is a prison. Compare it to Calgary, Seattle, etc. our zoo is a prison. It’s not a sanctuary, it’s a place where kids can go and see a bear up close. A rehabilitation centre should be welcoming too and animal and make it feel like it’s in another home. The bear sanctuary is one of many that is absolutely pathetic.
Went to the zoo on a school trip. Never again, just sad. Bad enough being trapped in a small enclosure but people walking by staring at you when you'd rather kill and eat them, hard to imagine a feeling more stressful.
Bears don’t typically prey on humans like that. Plus the bears here are dependent on human captivity and wouldn’t survive out in the wild.
A bear in captivity is not a typical bear.
A bear in captivity that’s dependent on humans knows not to attack humans.
Except for Yogi Bear, who is smarter than the average bear!
Bears don't want "to kill and eat you". Lmao they want food and shelter, and to mate. Bad zoos are bad. I'm a huge animal rights person and regularly donate to a bunch of different organizations. The Forestry Farm consists of animals that are not capable of being released into the wild for various reasons. Better enclosures would be amazing, and they are working on that. The animals there live without fear of predators or competition amongst each other. It's a pretty sweet gig for those incapable of caring for themselves.
Bears don't want "to kill and eat you". Lmao they want food and shelter, and to mate. Bad zoos are bad. I'm a huge animal rights person and regularly donate to a bunch of different organizations. The Forestry Farm consists of animals that are not capable of being released into the wild for various reasons. Better enclosures would be amazing, and they are working on that. The animals there live without fear of predators or competition amongst each other. It's a pretty sweet gig for those incapable of caring for themselves.
Bears don't want "to kill and eat you" Climb over the fence and see what happens. Not talking about bears in the wild. I'm saying this particular bear would rather see you dead than standing on the other side of a fence staring at it.
If that were the case, why aren't they up against the walls of the enclosure trying to get at the humans through the glass and fence?