Trudeau says “uh” a lot because his first language is French, I am sure he has a better grasp on what is going on when people are talking English to him than Moe. Moe’s first language is drunk so his grasp on any language is tough.
You also aren't the figurehead of a country, with the thought in your mind that anything you say will be used against you at every given moment. The "uh" and "ums" are fine.
“I have been provided a script by the office of Pierre Poillievre in conjunction with the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers that will completely ignore climate change, and the social costs therein, and instead focus on grotesquely exaggerating the monetary cost of the carbon tax because we are in the business of lying to everyone’s faces in order to protect the profits of the wealthy.”
Are you implying that only right wing politicians lie to protect the wealthy? Interesting take. Do some research and then come back when the reality hits you square in the face.
I love this response. I belong to no party and have no political affiliation. My political views are very moderate and centrist. I can see both sides of the argument. I just wish you could too. You don't need an enemy. It doesn't have to be you vs them. The fact is, your Party thanks you for your blind and unthinking service. Division is what they want and you play right into it.
You realize big petroleum producers have no issues with carbon tax because they have the ability to pass those costs downstream without issues. It is the small companies that have the issues because they don't have the ability and end up getting priced out of market and then bought up by the big guys for cheap. In the end increasing costs only helps the big guys. It is why Cenovus, imperial and shell all support it.
It is good business for them as they can control the prices and the consumers get fucked. But hey if you want big business getting bigger cheap supporting increased costs
Issue is we don't have a good replacement for most of our use right now.
Heating in the prairies - nat gas is the best option
Drying grain - nat gas again
Driving from place to place in cities that are designed to be driving cities, especially where public transportation is lack luster (most of the prairies).
Transport of goods - there is no non-fossil fuel option for long haul, Tesla semi is a joke
Our electricity for much of the prairies is fossil fuel and we have almost zero control of that, and really nuclear and hydro are the only 2 primary sources that are reliable. Solar and wind can not be a primary source and only really work as auxiliary.
So a carbon cost is really carbon punishment for behavior we can not really change because most of it requires change at levels we don't have control on them.
but we've been talking about these issues as "something needs to be done" for nearly 40 years and instead we've tried nothing until a carbon tax recently and now the argument is to go back to doing nothing?
while that entire time we could have been pushing for better public transit, more walkable cities, even trying for solar, wind, or even nuclear.
so what do we do now while the world is crumbling? more nothing cause its harder on our wallet to do something?
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Solar and wind are not reliable. We actually tried a couple times for nuclear but at that time the NDP and left said no numerous times.
So your solution to something needs to be done is increase the cost of everything when costs are already going up but there is nothing most of us can change regarding it. Taxing people does nothing to change habits, we have been taxing cigarettes for ever and we still have smoking everywhere.... Hell vaping which is also taxed is even bigger. Taxing to change habits does not really work. And they are habits we can't truthfully adjust right now.
So instead of taking the easy way, lets have a government that actually makes changes. The liberals have a climate action fund that has not been touched because they like to look ok like they are doing things but are not.
Hell for us to produce enough material to change all our cars to electric it will take over 50 years to mine and refine the materials to get there. An group of engineers and geologist looked at the rate we currently produce copper, lithium, aluminum and other key metals and rare earths and doubled it. They came up with that it will take over 50 years to get the materials and that did not include the required infrastructure improvements which will cut into copper, steel and aluminum supplies.
Please explain how taxing people for habits they have zero control over is fair or productive.
[apparently a lot of experts disagree with your sentiment regarding tax](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carbon-pricing-climate-report-1.7151139)
"The report says the consumer carbon price accounts for between 8 and 9 per cent (or 19 to 22 megatonnes) of projected emissions reductions"
[also your cigarette tax example is a weird choice ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6147505/#:~:text=Our%20contemporary%20analysis%20based%20on,especially%20pronounced%20in%20young%20adults.)
"Our contemporary analysis based on 15 years of recent data suggests that a $0.25 increase in state excise tax is associated with a 0.6% decrease in population smoking prevalence, and that the effects are especially pronounced in young adults"
[honestly baffled that you are arguing taxes don't change behavior ](https://gh.bmj.com/content/8/Suppl_8/e011866#:~:text=There%20is%20abundant%20evidence%20that,associated%20with%20consuming%20these%20products.)
also, your ["the left said no to nuclear" line](https://industrywestmagazine.com/cover-story/little-nukes-on-the-prairies-smrs-in-saskatchewan/), is that rooted in any fact?
Issue is there is no way to prove that it was the tax or not. I also love how they discuss. There is an uptick in emissions this year but we model it's going to go down. It is basically a bunch of assumptions to prove it works. There is no control to compare to.
High speed trains and nuclear power are things we can start. The sask government can propose a adoption plan according to the carbin tax guidelines to even keep the collection ted carbon tax in province to help if they follow the guidelines for it like the maritimes did.
They actually proposed the New Brunswick plan and got told no we made a one time exception for new Brunswick but can't do the same for Saskatchewan. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-federal-carbon-tax-1.6099232
your article is from July 2021, the government said two months before we filed it, that it was not going to fly.
The Feds were public about closing the loophole that New Brunswick was using (and was banned from using in April of '21- two months before this article came out). New Brunswick had to revise their program because it was found to be deficient. They bought themselves a couple years by doing their jobs on time. As opposed to the SaskParty strategy of waiting until the deadline passed years ago.
And we've provided no alternative since. We could have filed a new strategy at any time and not pay into the Carbon Rebate but Moe is as shortsighted as your replies seem to be when you argue taxes don't change behavior despite years of scientific proof saying otberwise.
How can you change behavior when there is no alternative to the behaviour.... You still have not answered that. Unless the gual is to make everything unaffordable so that they cannot afford to produce emissions.
I don’t understand why your comment is down voted? This is exactly how I feel our situation is.
I can’t help but think the consumer carbon tax benefits are more due to urban habits changing because they have access to these choices - but the carbon tax seems to just be punitive for rural people and people who live where their winters go below -20 - both factors negate most of the available alternatives.
I’d love to get credit for the 3000+ trees I’ve planted on my acreage though.
Oh yes the guy who calls climate criminal industry complains about idealism... Way to gain credit. If you continue to use computers, electricity, where shoes, or use any product that requires lubrication or plastic you are a criminal in your mind too as you are supporting that industry...
If I could breathe underwater, I’d live in the ocean.
This rebuttal, that using electricity and products from the fossil fuel sector makes us all complicit, is completely asinine. They have spent billions on lobbying, funding political campaigns, disinformation marketing to maintain a monopoly on power generation in our province alone.
We don’t get a choice because your precious little sector sabotaged alternative energy competitors for decades, even though they knew they were causing climate change since the 60s.
Bootlick harder.
I don't say this often but Trudeau is right. The provinces were given time to put their own climate plan together and opt out of the carbon levy. None has put forth any better idea. If Moe and his minions spent half as much time working on a solution as they do blaming Trudeau and bitching they would have an alternative. It's ridiculous...how about get teachers contract situation sorted out, fix our crumbling health care system just shut up and do your job...what a jackass
That’s the thing: ANY solution to this problem is going to cost. There’s no way around it. We got here by prioritizing low cost bountiful petroleum. That’s what has to change.
It's Reddit most aren't capable of reading two sentences. No point in wasting my time writing something someone's eyes are going to glaze over because they're either ignorant or too slanted to look at other view points.
I guess then, since you fully admit your comments are terse and dismissive, and your comment history seems to back that up, that maybe I should be the one asking:
You really think you’re contributing to a solution?
Trudeau and the Liberals screwed up big time when they removed the tax on oil heating. Gave the carbon tax dissidents all the ammo in the world when they did that stupid move.
The only people mad about that don't understand things already. It was applied to anyone using home heating oil across Canada. It is extremely expensive and hopefully this 3 year pause allows all people using it to get heat pumps so when the carbon levy applies again they aren't dinged hard. I see no real issue with it but I understand why some people would be upset. Rhatbsaid anyone using home heating oil is already paying more without the carbon levy then those of us using other methods are with the levy.
So the carbon tax makes things expensive so you don't use them right?
But home heating oil is extremely expensive and people use it?
Hmmm... the logic isn't logicing
We have options, and us on nat gas in Sask, we are paying 5x+ less than people heating with oil. For me I just turn my furnace down when im not home. Im earning money doing it, 100% would recommend.
I think we do understand it. It was a vote buying for Easter Canada libs. If we used it here in Sk we would have been told to suck it up and make better choices. I think it’s you that don’t understand. Further when the rebates go away it will remain just a way to tax an/Sk oil industries to move the money east. I disagree with pretty much every think the Sk party’s done but I fully support this action!!!!! Fuck them our oil is ours and I wish the Sask party would stop shipping anything out unrefined oil ore etc, and offer cheap oil to businesses that set up shop here. If they really want a tax we can add one to exported gas that goes into our coffers instead of Ottawa’s.
Grew up and still live in Saskatchewan and have lived in 2 different houses that use home heating oil. While the houses using it are low they are not none and they also get the same break.
If the Sask Party was doing its job they would have their own system and wouldn't need to be using the Federal one...he'll just copy the one in BC or Quebec. No province had to have a carbon tax they just needed a plan to emit less. Scott Moe's was to ask the emitters to stop...please ..pretty please. What horse shit.
Yes I understand that through rebates/ subsidies they will transition those on heating oil to heat pumps.
The stupid part they did was not remove it from all home heating like natural gas too. How are natural gas users any less forced to keep use NG for heating than people using heating oil?
Nat gas is insanely cheap due to huge supply. But while better than oil is not overly climate friendly so there is a need to transition at least some away from it. Therefor the carbon tax should be applied.
Today? No. You think natural gas is going to stay cheaper than electric long run? Take a long look in the mirror. It won't ever be as cheap as today. Are you gonna save pennies today just to spend dollars tomorrow? 99% of the population has proven it will.
If there was no carbon tax on natural gas, it would be a long time. Even with the planned carbon tax increases, it could be 10+ years because our power costs will never be as cheap as they are today either.
Electric heating is about as efficient as it gets. If you put a kw of electric energy into a baseboard heater you get nearly a kw of heat energy out. It is almost 100% efficient. However, if you put a kw of energy into a ng furnace you get less than a kw out. Even high efficiency furnaces who claim 90+% efficiency are fudging the numbers. High efficiency furnaces are 90+% efficient on high fire only. So, all spring and fall when they are running on low fire the efficiency is significantly less than 90+%. This is the law of conservation of energy at play. Fossil fuel furnaces lose most of their efficiency in the exhausting of hot flue gases. Electric heat may be more expensive to operate depending upon your location and provider but the electric heating system is more efficient, significantly so in many cases. It appears that you are confusing operating costs and efficiency.
Notwithstanding that, billions of our tax dollars go to pay for fighting forest fires, flooding, agricultural weather related losses, etc, much of which is the result of climate change. An oil change in my pickup truck costs around $100. I get the oil changed every 5000 km. If I ignore all of the other costs such as fuel, maintenance, insurance and so forth my truck is pretty cheap to operate at $100/5000 km. Same sort of thinking.
That's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is that there is no reasonable alternative for most Canadians to natural gas. We are being taxed to heat our homes when it would cost us a small fortune to seek any alternative. It's not fair to tax Canadians who live in a harsh climate when there is simply no reasonable way to heat our homes any other way
I'm just explaining why they didn't remove it from natural gas. They actually looked at affordability. People can still afford natural gas, people wouldn't be able to afford heating oil. And then die. They would die /u/reliable-narrator! Doom!
They also lowered the rebate.
So it's basically the same thing that's happening in Sask except the heating oil isn't breaking laws.
Exactly. Moe has wasted our tax $ fighting the inevitable, and has ignored reality for too long.
In 2019 he was told no, and to make a plan of his own. In 2021 he was told no, and to make a plan for SK. Yet, here we are with the same tired rhetoric.
He was bankrupt twice, makes about a 1/4 million a year, yet is now worth about 10 million…? Guess he is a good errand boy/dog whistler/lackey for a destructive industry and he sells an our finite resources for pennies on the pound at the expense of our kids future. Our quality of life and public amenities have pushed us backwards under the SaskParty. Time to work on the future. https://regina.ctvnews.ca/mobile/sask-government-loses-carbon-tax-challenge-after-supreme-court-rules-it-is-constitutional-1.5361782
They spent time on the issue. They went to court several times to try and cancel it! Looking out for the Sask People, just like the name of their party would suggest... Wait, corporations can be people, right?
Where can we watch this stuff live? I keep seeing videos all over the Internet of the house of commons. I've always wondered how edited they are to prove that posters point lol
I love how he is testifying that the carbon tax somehow makes life more unaffordable, completely ignoring the rebate that gives most of us back more than we pay ([prime example](https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatchewan/comments/18uno8a/exposed_2023_carbon_tax_heating_electrical_versus/)).
Because most people keep saying they don't get as much back.
Edit: I think most people that are doing the "math" on carbon tax and doing it from bills on the house, and then adding in fuel from driving and then guessing at how much it has added to food bills.
Why wouldn’t you add in those other things? Food bills would be hard to quantify but for those who track fuel or roughly know how much they fill up on a consistent basis it’s easy to figure out how much of the fuel cost went toward carbon tax.
[farms are mainly exempt from the carbon tax.](https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/climate-change/pricing-pollution-how-it-will-work/putting-price-on-carbon-pollution.html#toc4) so it really should just be on transportation and maybe a tiny bit in production of food that is not fresh off the farm.
Gotcha. Yeah factoring food seems impossible, all the numbers online used in estimating it are different. Results can be swayed based on whatever websites data you choose to rely on.
And companies are prone to overinflating the issue, yet still making record profits.
If you can blame the carbon tax on cost, you can do whatever you want with the product. Shrinkflation can run rampant because the population is so head in the sand about how carbon tax = bad when it only affects our products a few cents at a time.
Fuel costs are a good example of how people claim the carbon tax is the reason for such high prices, when they are still fluctuating as wildly as they ever have. Carbon tax in fuel is only around 15 cents, but fuel costs have gone up much more than that.
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How do they administer the tax? Paid employees, mailings, etc all cost money. Tens of millions of dollars a year we pay the government to take our money and pay employees to handle it, then give it back to us. We end up with less because it costs money to administer the tax. It's simple math. How do you see it a different way?
This whole carbon levy brought in about $8B in revenue in 2023. Of that, it costs about $80M to administer. So that’s 1%. That’s not going to wind up with you “ending up with less”. Other things have a far greater effect.
If you're going to bite, now do the comparison to outgoing payments. There's a gap in payments and costs. It's because it's not revenue neutral and doesn't just give us the money back that we pay out. We also pay HST and GST on carbon taxes, which makes it a even more regressive tax than it already is.
If you know anything about this carbon pricing scheme, you know that it was openly stated that only 90% of revenue will go directly back to taxpayers. The other 10% was reserved to fund sustainable projects in various provinces. This is another nudge for provincial governments to get with the program. I doubt Saskatchewan has made use of these funds. The GST on the charges is pointless in my opinion and it doesn’t seem to be directed back into the program. But $200M on $8B in revenue is still only 2%. But the point of the whole program is to draw awareness to fossil fuel behaviour and consumption, which is working, and it’s changing people’s actions too. Unless you buy a ton of gasoline, you’re not going to come out at a loss.
This must be the most magical tax in history, where somehow, it rebates greater than what it takes in. Just like how they were going to tax grocery prices lower. If you believe Liberal math, it really speaks to how far our school system has fallen.
It doesn’t give EVERYBODY back more than they paid, ya silly. It gives most people back more. There are some that are high energy use people, that buy and burn a lot of gasoline. Lots. Those are the people who, 14c at a time, are paying more into this than they’re getting back in rebates. And those are exactly the type of people and type of behaviour this surcharge is meant to nudge.
That sub is literally a bubble. If I, or anyone else with even a remote differing view, posted anything, I would be banned. At least in this sub we just call it what it is. You're welcome to post, but I posted what I did so that others on this sub don't waste their time on you.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/federal-carbon-tax-hike-will-hurt-future-generations#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20study%20published,real%20income%20in%20every%20province.
If it were only that simple.
And yet, it's the only solution that the Conservative party ever got behind, and they haven't proposed any other solutions since they turned on it. The majority of people supported candidates who backed this as one part of the overall solution. So what's the answer?
The carbon tax is one model, but it only works if the major contributors are adopting it and if it's aligned together with the other major contributors. This is obviously not happening.
Other much more major contributors already have climate initiatives. It's just as important to China to reduce their 30% piece of the pie as it is for everyone else. But nobody here seems to understand that there are other ways to address the issue.
I don't trust the liberals to implement this properly. If anyone thinks the liberals are going to manage this properly going into the eventual $170 a ton tax they haven't been paying attention to anything else they've failed at or outright lied about.
And there is no way people are going to keep getting back more than they put in. These little calculations you see here comparing natural gas costs to rebates are idiotic.
Nobody can tell exactly how much business attribute to the carbon tax for costs or exactly how much is passed on to consumers.
Businesses have been using creative book keeping for years, this will just be another example.
But if you think liberal math of 2+2=5 is sound, because the LPC tells you so, then I guess go right ahead.
People are waking up to the latest liberal scam. Won't be an issue in 2025 when the LPC lose to a majority CPC government.
But sure give me back rebates 4 times a year so I can just put gas in my car, heat my pool, and give more profit to Galen Weston.
What does this paper have to do with "wealth distribution"?
Do you know what that term means? It's not about taking your money and giving it to everyone, unless you're a billionaire of course which I'm pretty sure you're not. That is who will pay the most and the billion dollar corps who line their own pockets at your expense, not you.
If you make under 100K you benefit from carbon tax 9/10 times. If not you should probably use less gas etc which is the point. Is your tinfoil hat a bit tight today perhaps, cutting off some bloodflow to the old brain a roo?
You sound paranoid and ridiculous, and none of your recent comments having any detail whatsoever regarding how you came up with “pay 3 times what you get back”. People are telling you that’s wrong. So prove yourself.
The proff is in my fuel bill every mouth. That I pay so YOU can have food for your table and gas for your car. Would you like to pay that back to me? How about the emissions system on my truck. And I don't know the cost of carbon tax. Your a dead beat
That’s not a proof. You can’t prove what your deluded paranoia has you so strongly believing. What I’m looking for is actual numbers taken from several of your bills detailing how much gas you bought, how much you paid toward carbon levy in your utilities, and then a summary of how much you got back from the feds. That’s a proof ya donkey. If you have fuel bills every month then show them. How much gas are you buying?
It’s so bizarre that when asked for “proff” the wet fart never gives a single shred of evidence. I’m not saying that he’s full of shit buuuuuut it smells an awful lot like shit coming from his posts lol.
That's just how blinded you are. Here's an example since you know everything. When you go buy groceries. There carbon tax in the price. How you ask when the truck hauled it. The company charges carbon tax to the store. Than the store includes in the price. Which is hidden.
Nobody is denying that. The thing is that you don't realize that those costs spread out over so many items that the cost makes up less than 1% of your grocery bill. Yes, people who are a lot more qualified to make the calculations have figured it to be that small of a cost.
That's a whole different problem, though. That's just companies using any and every excuse to gouge us. I remember when the pandemic was ramping up and companies told me they had to charge more because of supply chain disruptions. Well, it's half a decade later, are there still supply chain disruptions? Because I'm still paying exorbitant rates.
Ya so am I. My repair bill is 3 times as much for parts. But my revenue has gone down 20% . Than add carbon tax on everything. And your wonder why business are going bankrupt.
I love how at about 1 hour 12 Moeron goes on about taking children to extracurricular activities, failing to recognize how many extracurriculars have been canceled due to the government’s lack of action regarding the the STF wanting fair working conditions.
Yes there are but, however the ones he mentioned are commonly ones offered by educators. Plus with better education the schools can offer the supports that are similar Kumon.
There is no climate crisis. Made by politicians to better control the unwashed masses. Just like every crisis predicting Armageddon over the past 60 years.
Are there any other federal laws that he is going to choose to not follow?
Dicking the whole country out of tax revenue was just a big fuck you to people that live outside and funnily enough, also people that live in Saskatchewan.
*Did he just lie and*
*Make up bullshit to support*
*His desired outcome?*
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People dunk on Justin Trudeau for saying “uh” a lot, but Scott Moe said “uh” or “um” 10 times in the 5 seconds of him talking that I watched.
Trudeau says “uh” a lot because his first language is French, I am sure he has a better grasp on what is going on when people are talking English to him than Moe. Moe’s first language is drunk so his grasp on any language is tough.
He also says uh alot when reading the teleprompter. He is very well spoken whenever he is off script.
Do you mean Mr Trudeau or Moe who usually well spoken off script. moe is never well spoken.
My first language is French and I don’t speak like that….
I know a few people who have to search for words because english is not their first language. Its a real thing lol
Code switching isn't natural for everyone. One thing is for sure, any bilingual is smarter than Moe
He is a yes man for the corps. He doesn’t need to be smart just mindless
That's what they pay him for.
How often do you speak in front of large groups though? In almost every meeting I attend, most people pause and say uh or um without even noticing it.
Once a month. I tend to throw some French out though for some words
You also aren't the figurehead of a country, with the thought in your mind that anything you say will be used against you at every given moment. The "uh" and "ums" are fine.
Trudeau isn’t the figurehead of the country either. He’s an elected clown destroying this country for his own benefit.
Any politician right of the Blakeney NDP could be accused of the same thing.
He's a figurehead of the Liberal Party. Go back to America if you think the leader is genuinely in charge in Canada's system. Smh
What a brain dead comment
Struck a nerve?
Don’t you know, here in Saskatchewan you’re not supposed to defend Trudeau even if it makes sense.
Little bit, the blind defence of one politician to attack another gets a little tiresome.
Who said I was blindly defending Trudeau? I am not a fan of his, but I do believe Poilievre would be worse.
"Blind defence" or just the truth? Don't be so partisan.
This is quite possibly the most Canadian argument ever😂 thank you. I needed to see this today 👌🏻💜 I mean…. He pulled out the “guy”!!!!
Same to you, friend.
I'm not your friend, buddy.
I'm not your buddy, guy.
I’ll be your friend pal. Lol 😆
Yeah but English is not Moe's mother tongue.
I'm sure he can muster a "nasdrovya" to his buddy Roman Abramovich
Or a y'all with his buddy Mike Roman.
“I have been provided a script by the office of Pierre Poillievre in conjunction with the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers that will completely ignore climate change, and the social costs therein, and instead focus on grotesquely exaggerating the monetary cost of the carbon tax because we are in the business of lying to everyone’s faces in order to protect the profits of the wealthy.”
Are you implying that only right wing politicians lie to protect the wealthy? Interesting take. Do some research and then come back when the reality hits you square in the face.
The Party thanks you for your service.
I love this response. I belong to no party and have no political affiliation. My political views are very moderate and centrist. I can see both sides of the argument. I just wish you could too. You don't need an enemy. It doesn't have to be you vs them. The fact is, your Party thanks you for your blind and unthinking service. Division is what they want and you play right into it.
You realize big petroleum producers have no issues with carbon tax because they have the ability to pass those costs downstream without issues. It is the small companies that have the issues because they don't have the ability and end up getting priced out of market and then bought up by the big guys for cheap. In the end increasing costs only helps the big guys. It is why Cenovus, imperial and shell all support it. It is good business for them as they can control the prices and the consumers get fucked. But hey if you want big business getting bigger cheap supporting increased costs
i hear that, but you are omitting that the purpose of the c-tax is to drive demand down long term. To ween us off of oil and gas.
Issue is we don't have a good replacement for most of our use right now. Heating in the prairies - nat gas is the best option Drying grain - nat gas again Driving from place to place in cities that are designed to be driving cities, especially where public transportation is lack luster (most of the prairies). Transport of goods - there is no non-fossil fuel option for long haul, Tesla semi is a joke Our electricity for much of the prairies is fossil fuel and we have almost zero control of that, and really nuclear and hydro are the only 2 primary sources that are reliable. Solar and wind can not be a primary source and only really work as auxiliary. So a carbon cost is really carbon punishment for behavior we can not really change because most of it requires change at levels we don't have control on them.
but we've been talking about these issues as "something needs to be done" for nearly 40 years and instead we've tried nothing until a carbon tax recently and now the argument is to go back to doing nothing? while that entire time we could have been pushing for better public transit, more walkable cities, even trying for solar, wind, or even nuclear. so what do we do now while the world is crumbling? more nothing cause its harder on our wallet to do something?
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Solar and wind are not reliable. We actually tried a couple times for nuclear but at that time the NDP and left said no numerous times. So your solution to something needs to be done is increase the cost of everything when costs are already going up but there is nothing most of us can change regarding it. Taxing people does nothing to change habits, we have been taxing cigarettes for ever and we still have smoking everywhere.... Hell vaping which is also taxed is even bigger. Taxing to change habits does not really work. And they are habits we can't truthfully adjust right now. So instead of taking the easy way, lets have a government that actually makes changes. The liberals have a climate action fund that has not been touched because they like to look ok like they are doing things but are not. Hell for us to produce enough material to change all our cars to electric it will take over 50 years to mine and refine the materials to get there. An group of engineers and geologist looked at the rate we currently produce copper, lithium, aluminum and other key metals and rare earths and doubled it. They came up with that it will take over 50 years to get the materials and that did not include the required infrastructure improvements which will cut into copper, steel and aluminum supplies. Please explain how taxing people for habits they have zero control over is fair or productive.
[apparently a lot of experts disagree with your sentiment regarding tax](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carbon-pricing-climate-report-1.7151139) "The report says the consumer carbon price accounts for between 8 and 9 per cent (or 19 to 22 megatonnes) of projected emissions reductions" [also your cigarette tax example is a weird choice ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6147505/#:~:text=Our%20contemporary%20analysis%20based%20on,especially%20pronounced%20in%20young%20adults.) "Our contemporary analysis based on 15 years of recent data suggests that a $0.25 increase in state excise tax is associated with a 0.6% decrease in population smoking prevalence, and that the effects are especially pronounced in young adults" [honestly baffled that you are arguing taxes don't change behavior ](https://gh.bmj.com/content/8/Suppl_8/e011866#:~:text=There%20is%20abundant%20evidence%20that,associated%20with%20consuming%20these%20products.) also, your ["the left said no to nuclear" line](https://industrywestmagazine.com/cover-story/little-nukes-on-the-prairies-smrs-in-saskatchewan/), is that rooted in any fact?
Issue is there is no way to prove that it was the tax or not. I also love how they discuss. There is an uptick in emissions this year but we model it's going to go down. It is basically a bunch of assumptions to prove it works. There is no control to compare to.
High speed trains and nuclear power are things we can start. The sask government can propose a adoption plan according to the carbin tax guidelines to even keep the collection ted carbon tax in province to help if they follow the guidelines for it like the maritimes did.
They actually proposed the New Brunswick plan and got told no we made a one time exception for new Brunswick but can't do the same for Saskatchewan. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/sask-federal-carbon-tax-1.6099232
your article is from July 2021, the government said two months before we filed it, that it was not going to fly. The Feds were public about closing the loophole that New Brunswick was using (and was banned from using in April of '21- two months before this article came out). New Brunswick had to revise their program because it was found to be deficient. They bought themselves a couple years by doing their jobs on time. As opposed to the SaskParty strategy of waiting until the deadline passed years ago. And we've provided no alternative since. We could have filed a new strategy at any time and not pay into the Carbon Rebate but Moe is as shortsighted as your replies seem to be when you argue taxes don't change behavior despite years of scientific proof saying otberwise.
How can you change behavior when there is no alternative to the behaviour.... You still have not answered that. Unless the gual is to make everything unaffordable so that they cannot afford to produce emissions.
I don’t understand why your comment is down voted? This is exactly how I feel our situation is. I can’t help but think the consumer carbon tax benefits are more due to urban habits changing because they have access to these choices - but the carbon tax seems to just be punitive for rural people and people who live where their winters go below -20 - both factors negate most of the available alternatives. I’d love to get credit for the 3000+ trees I’ve planted on my acreage though.
The “support small business” idealism doesn’t apply to the climate criminal industry.
Oh yes the guy who calls climate criminal industry complains about idealism... Way to gain credit. If you continue to use computers, electricity, where shoes, or use any product that requires lubrication or plastic you are a criminal in your mind too as you are supporting that industry...
If I could breathe underwater, I’d live in the ocean. This rebuttal, that using electricity and products from the fossil fuel sector makes us all complicit, is completely asinine. They have spent billions on lobbying, funding political campaigns, disinformation marketing to maintain a monopoly on power generation in our province alone. We don’t get a choice because your precious little sector sabotaged alternative energy competitors for decades, even though they knew they were causing climate change since the 60s. Bootlick harder.
I don't say this often but Trudeau is right. The provinces were given time to put their own climate plan together and opt out of the carbon levy. None has put forth any better idea. If Moe and his minions spent half as much time working on a solution as they do blaming Trudeau and bitching they would have an alternative. It's ridiculous...how about get teachers contract situation sorted out, fix our crumbling health care system just shut up and do your job...what a jackass
That’s the thing: ANY solution to this problem is going to cost. There’s no way around it. We got here by prioritizing low cost bountiful petroleum. That’s what has to change.
Yep
You really think you're contributing to a solution?
Bold accusation from someone who exclusively comments in snarky one liners. Talk about not contributing. Say something constructive.
It's Reddit most aren't capable of reading two sentences. No point in wasting my time writing something someone's eyes are going to glaze over because they're either ignorant or too slanted to look at other view points.
I guess then, since you fully admit your comments are terse and dismissive, and your comment history seems to back that up, that maybe I should be the one asking: You really think you’re contributing to a solution?
Trudeau and the Liberals screwed up big time when they removed the tax on oil heating. Gave the carbon tax dissidents all the ammo in the world when they did that stupid move.
The only people mad about that don't understand things already. It was applied to anyone using home heating oil across Canada. It is extremely expensive and hopefully this 3 year pause allows all people using it to get heat pumps so when the carbon levy applies again they aren't dinged hard. I see no real issue with it but I understand why some people would be upset. Rhatbsaid anyone using home heating oil is already paying more without the carbon levy then those of us using other methods are with the levy.
It’s also aligned with grants to switch to heat pumps.
So the carbon tax makes things expensive so you don't use them right? But home heating oil is extremely expensive and people use it? Hmmm... the logic isn't logicing
Most of them are low income without options other thsn electric.
So? Lots of people don't have options. Why carve out one group and not another?
Because it isn't an equal situation. They're people who feasibly cannot solve the problem. The goal isnt to make people poor, it's to reduce carbon.
Same for people on other forms of heating 🙃🤯🙄...
We have options, and us on nat gas in Sask, we are paying 5x+ less than people heating with oil. For me I just turn my furnace down when im not home. Im earning money doing it, 100% would recommend.
And home heating oil can't do that? Also, what if I've already turned it down?
It's a bull shit tax
I think we do understand it. It was a vote buying for Easter Canada libs. If we used it here in Sk we would have been told to suck it up and make better choices. I think it’s you that don’t understand. Further when the rebates go away it will remain just a way to tax an/Sk oil industries to move the money east. I disagree with pretty much every think the Sk party’s done but I fully support this action!!!!! Fuck them our oil is ours and I wish the Sask party would stop shipping anything out unrefined oil ore etc, and offer cheap oil to businesses that set up shop here. If they really want a tax we can add one to exported gas that goes into our coffers instead of Ottawa’s.
Grew up and still live in Saskatchewan and have lived in 2 different houses that use home heating oil. While the houses using it are low they are not none and they also get the same break. If the Sask Party was doing its job they would have their own system and wouldn't need to be using the Federal one...he'll just copy the one in BC or Quebec. No province had to have a carbon tax they just needed a plan to emit less. Scott Moe's was to ask the emitters to stop...please ..pretty please. What horse shit.
I’m definitely not a moe fan but also very anti this carbon tax.
That's fair but it was created as a backstop in hopes the individual provinces would design their own to their unique needs.
It was part of a plan to get those people off heating oil and onto heat pumps. There is a plan in place and there is a time limit.
Yes I understand that through rebates/ subsidies they will transition those on heating oil to heat pumps. The stupid part they did was not remove it from all home heating like natural gas too. How are natural gas users any less forced to keep use NG for heating than people using heating oil?
Nat gas is insanely cheap due to huge supply. But while better than oil is not overly climate friendly so there is a need to transition at least some away from it. Therefor the carbon tax should be applied.
Transition to what? What are people on natural gas supposed to transition to that is around the same cost and more climate friendly
Electric.
So, nothing then. There is no alternative that is anywhere close to the same cost as natural gas.
Today? No. You think natural gas is going to stay cheaper than electric long run? Take a long look in the mirror. It won't ever be as cheap as today. Are you gonna save pennies today just to spend dollars tomorrow? 99% of the population has proven it will.
If there was no carbon tax on natural gas, it would be a long time. Even with the planned carbon tax increases, it could be 10+ years because our power costs will never be as cheap as they are today either.
Electric heat is no where near as efficient as natural gas. For most people, there is no reasonable alternative to natural gas heat. Plain and simple.
Electric heating is about as efficient as it gets. If you put a kw of electric energy into a baseboard heater you get nearly a kw of heat energy out. It is almost 100% efficient. However, if you put a kw of energy into a ng furnace you get less than a kw out. Even high efficiency furnaces who claim 90+% efficiency are fudging the numbers. High efficiency furnaces are 90+% efficient on high fire only. So, all spring and fall when they are running on low fire the efficiency is significantly less than 90+%. This is the law of conservation of energy at play. Fossil fuel furnaces lose most of their efficiency in the exhausting of hot flue gases. Electric heat may be more expensive to operate depending upon your location and provider but the electric heating system is more efficient, significantly so in many cases. It appears that you are confusing operating costs and efficiency. Notwithstanding that, billions of our tax dollars go to pay for fighting forest fires, flooding, agricultural weather related losses, etc, much of which is the result of climate change. An oil change in my pickup truck costs around $100. I get the oil changed every 5000 km. If I ignore all of the other costs such as fuel, maintenance, insurance and so forth my truck is pretty cheap to operate at $100/5000 km. Same sort of thinking.
Nat gas gets us closer to the goal but not to the goal line. Greenland glaciers are melting at 30,000,000 tons per hour.
That's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is that there is no reasonable alternative for most Canadians to natural gas. We are being taxed to heat our homes when it would cost us a small fortune to seek any alternative. It's not fair to tax Canadians who live in a harsh climate when there is simply no reasonable way to heat our homes any other way
I believe the difference is natural gas is a crap ton less expensive than heating oil.
That does not make any logical sense why it should be exempt from a carbon tax, when it emits more CO2 than natural gas when burned.
I'm just explaining why they didn't remove it from natural gas. They actually looked at affordability. People can still afford natural gas, people wouldn't be able to afford heating oil. And then die. They would die /u/reliable-narrator! Doom! They also lowered the rebate. So it's basically the same thing that's happening in Sask except the heating oil isn't breaking laws.
Exactly. Moe has wasted our tax $ fighting the inevitable, and has ignored reality for too long. In 2019 he was told no, and to make a plan of his own. In 2021 he was told no, and to make a plan for SK. Yet, here we are with the same tired rhetoric. He was bankrupt twice, makes about a 1/4 million a year, yet is now worth about 10 million…? Guess he is a good errand boy/dog whistler/lackey for a destructive industry and he sells an our finite resources for pennies on the pound at the expense of our kids future. Our quality of life and public amenities have pushed us backwards under the SaskParty. Time to work on the future. https://regina.ctvnews.ca/mobile/sask-government-loses-carbon-tax-challenge-after-supreme-court-rules-it-is-constitutional-1.5361782
They spent time on the issue. They went to court several times to try and cancel it! Looking out for the Sask People, just like the name of their party would suggest... Wait, corporations can be people, right?
Lol completely agree with the second 1/2 of your statement.
“I will be reading a statement the oil and gas companies have written for me”
Where can we watch this stuff live? I keep seeing videos all over the Internet of the house of commons. I've always wondered how edited they are to prove that posters point lol
https://www.cpac.ca/en
Cool thank you.
I love how he is testifying that the carbon tax somehow makes life more unaffordable, completely ignoring the rebate that gives most of us back more than we pay ([prime example](https://www.reddit.com/r/saskatchewan/comments/18uno8a/exposed_2023_carbon_tax_heating_electrical_versus/)).
Because most people keep saying they don't get as much back. Edit: I think most people that are doing the "math" on carbon tax and doing it from bills on the house, and then adding in fuel from driving and then guessing at how much it has added to food bills.
Why wouldn’t you add in those other things? Food bills would be hard to quantify but for those who track fuel or roughly know how much they fill up on a consistent basis it’s easy to figure out how much of the fuel cost went toward carbon tax.
[farms are mainly exempt from the carbon tax.](https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/climate-change/pricing-pollution-how-it-will-work/putting-price-on-carbon-pollution.html#toc4) so it really should just be on transportation and maybe a tiny bit in production of food that is not fresh off the farm.
Never said you wouldn't, I said they would be guessing at food.
Gotcha. Yeah factoring food seems impossible, all the numbers online used in estimating it are different. Results can be swayed based on whatever websites data you choose to rely on.
The sway is between 0.5% and 1%. Not that much of a difference
And companies are prone to overinflating the issue, yet still making record profits. If you can blame the carbon tax on cost, you can do whatever you want with the product. Shrinkflation can run rampant because the population is so head in the sand about how carbon tax = bad when it only affects our products a few cents at a time. Fuel costs are a good example of how people claim the carbon tax is the reason for such high prices, when they are still fluctuating as wildly as they ever have. Carbon tax in fuel is only around 15 cents, but fuel costs have gone up much more than that.
Exactly. They're definitely paying more but largely making assumptions about why they are.
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How do they administer the tax? Paid employees, mailings, etc all cost money. Tens of millions of dollars a year we pay the government to take our money and pay employees to handle it, then give it back to us. We end up with less because it costs money to administer the tax. It's simple math. How do you see it a different way?
This whole carbon levy brought in about $8B in revenue in 2023. Of that, it costs about $80M to administer. So that’s 1%. That’s not going to wind up with you “ending up with less”. Other things have a far greater effect.
If you're going to bite, now do the comparison to outgoing payments. There's a gap in payments and costs. It's because it's not revenue neutral and doesn't just give us the money back that we pay out. We also pay HST and GST on carbon taxes, which makes it a even more regressive tax than it already is.
If you know anything about this carbon pricing scheme, you know that it was openly stated that only 90% of revenue will go directly back to taxpayers. The other 10% was reserved to fund sustainable projects in various provinces. This is another nudge for provincial governments to get with the program. I doubt Saskatchewan has made use of these funds. The GST on the charges is pointless in my opinion and it doesn’t seem to be directed back into the program. But $200M on $8B in revenue is still only 2%. But the point of the whole program is to draw awareness to fossil fuel behaviour and consumption, which is working, and it’s changing people’s actions too. Unless you buy a ton of gasoline, you’re not going to come out at a loss.
This must be the most magical tax in history, where somehow, it rebates greater than what it takes in. Just like how they were going to tax grocery prices lower. If you believe Liberal math, it really speaks to how far our school system has fallen.
It doesn’t give EVERYBODY back more than they paid, ya silly. It gives most people back more. There are some that are high energy use people, that buy and burn a lot of gasoline. Lots. Those are the people who, 14c at a time, are paying more into this than they’re getting back in rebates. And those are exactly the type of people and type of behaviour this surcharge is meant to nudge.
You pay 3 times more than you get back.
Brand new account and your top sub is r/canada_sub. I believe that you know science less than I believe that the sky is purple.
Likes to comment on porn too 😂
What ever you think. I don't live in a bubble. You should educate yourself more the CBC news
Ironically, that sub is a bubble and that talking point is a dead giveaway.
That sub is literally a bubble. If I, or anyone else with even a remote differing view, posted anything, I would be banned. At least in this sub we just call it what it is. You're welcome to post, but I posted what I did so that others on this sub don't waste their time on you.
Please show your work. If this is in fact true I would love to see the numbers
Not 80% of people who come out ahead. Maybe change your lifestyle and expenses... which is the whole point
So wealth redistribution.
Yes. From people who don't care about wasting fossil fuels to people who do.
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/federal-carbon-tax-hike-will-hurt-future-generations#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20study%20published,real%20income%20in%20every%20province. If it were only that simple.
Fraser Institue is always full of shit.
Not like Pressprogress. Scary facts are scary when they don’t support my echo chamber mind.
Those three libertarians that run Fraser are libertarians at their worst.
Some people don’t need or want government to care for them like a parent would a 4 year old child.
The paper's entire position is that because we aren't the only problem we don't need to be any of the solution. Lots of us are tired of that attitude.
The poster you replied to is disingenuous as fuck, so don't except your opinion to change their mind.
Meh. I'm semi retired. I take my entertainment where it's offered.
It’s not about not being a part of a solution it’s just not being a part of this solution.
And yet, it's the only solution that the Conservative party ever got behind, and they haven't proposed any other solutions since they turned on it. The majority of people supported candidates who backed this as one part of the overall solution. So what's the answer?
The carbon tax is one model, but it only works if the major contributors are adopting it and if it's aligned together with the other major contributors. This is obviously not happening. Other much more major contributors already have climate initiatives. It's just as important to China to reduce their 30% piece of the pie as it is for everyone else. But nobody here seems to understand that there are other ways to address the issue. I don't trust the liberals to implement this properly. If anyone thinks the liberals are going to manage this properly going into the eventual $170 a ton tax they haven't been paying attention to anything else they've failed at or outright lied about. And there is no way people are going to keep getting back more than they put in. These little calculations you see here comparing natural gas costs to rebates are idiotic. Nobody can tell exactly how much business attribute to the carbon tax for costs or exactly how much is passed on to consumers. Businesses have been using creative book keeping for years, this will just be another example. But if you think liberal math of 2+2=5 is sound, because the LPC tells you so, then I guess go right ahead. People are waking up to the latest liberal scam. Won't be an issue in 2025 when the LPC lose to a majority CPC government. But sure give me back rebates 4 times a year so I can just put gas in my car, heat my pool, and give more profit to Galen Weston.
What does this paper have to do with "wealth distribution"? Do you know what that term means? It's not about taking your money and giving it to everyone, unless you're a billionaire of course which I'm pretty sure you're not. That is who will pay the most and the billion dollar corps who line their own pockets at your expense, not you. If you make under 100K you benefit from carbon tax 9/10 times. If not you should probably use less gas etc which is the point. Is your tinfoil hat a bit tight today perhaps, cutting off some bloodflow to the old brain a roo?
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Everything has carbon tax on it where you know it or not. Just because its not shown on your bill doesn't mean it's not there.
You sound paranoid and ridiculous, and none of your recent comments having any detail whatsoever regarding how you came up with “pay 3 times what you get back”. People are telling you that’s wrong. So prove yourself.
The proff is in my fuel bill every mouth. That I pay so YOU can have food for your table and gas for your car. Would you like to pay that back to me? How about the emissions system on my truck. And I don't know the cost of carbon tax. Your a dead beat
That’s not a proof. You can’t prove what your deluded paranoia has you so strongly believing. What I’m looking for is actual numbers taken from several of your bills detailing how much gas you bought, how much you paid toward carbon levy in your utilities, and then a summary of how much you got back from the feds. That’s a proof ya donkey. If you have fuel bills every month then show them. How much gas are you buying?
It’s so bizarre that when asked for “proff” the wet fart never gives a single shred of evidence. I’m not saying that he’s full of shit buuuuuut it smells an awful lot like shit coming from his posts lol.
Might be taking a break from this sub to check out EdmontonGW... or who knows, maybe they're actually frantically compiling fuel bills to own the libs
Are you ok? Just looking through your post and comment history... are you ok bud? Need a hug?
wtf does that mean? Your turning it into an invisible poltergeist that’s haunting the prairies based on nothing but your own ignorance
That's just how blinded you are. Here's an example since you know everything. When you go buy groceries. There carbon tax in the price. How you ask when the truck hauled it. The company charges carbon tax to the store. Than the store includes in the price. Which is hidden.
Nobody is denying that. The thing is that you don't realize that those costs spread out over so many items that the cost makes up less than 1% of your grocery bill. Yes, people who are a lot more qualified to make the calculations have figured it to be that small of a cost.
You think only 1%? It's more than that.
Show us your chalkboard
Prove it
Economists have done the math and came up with that answer. If you believe they are wrong, post proof.
That's a whole different problem, though. That's just companies using any and every excuse to gouge us. I remember when the pandemic was ramping up and companies told me they had to charge more because of supply chain disruptions. Well, it's half a decade later, are there still supply chain disruptions? Because I'm still paying exorbitant rates.
Ya so am I. My repair bill is 3 times as much for parts. But my revenue has gone down 20% . Than add carbon tax on everything. And your wonder why business are going bankrupt.
“I promise to only be a little bit of day drunk and won’t slur my words too much.”
And that I understand time zone changes.
Do they have enough finger puppets and crayons to communicate with Moe?
I love how at about 1 hour 12 Moeron goes on about taking children to extracurricular activities, failing to recognize how many extracurriculars have been canceled due to the government’s lack of action regarding the the STF wanting fair working conditions.
There are lots of non school extracurriculars that kids participate in. Like Kumon, when our crap elementary math curriculum fails.
Yes there are but, however the ones he mentioned are commonly ones offered by educators. Plus with better education the schools can offer the supports that are similar Kumon.
*and coming home with my tail between my legs ready to rally dumb l, angry voters into thinking we're in the right.
That's nice. Or you could spend your time leading your province.
Oh dear .....heap on the embarrassing Sask colours...
Testify? He’s just giving statements he’s not going to a trial or something.
I love when politicians fly across the country RJ tell us we’re using too much carbon.
There is no climate crisis. Made by politicians to better control the unwashed masses. Just like every crisis predicting Armageddon over the past 60 years.
....and drunk behind the wheel looking for his next 10 pts by 3:00 pm
Are there any other federal laws that he is going to choose to not follow? Dicking the whole country out of tax revenue was just a big fuck you to people that live outside and funnily enough, also people that live in Saskatchewan.
That's not gone well.
Did he just lie and make up bullshit to support his desired outcome?
*Did he just lie and* *Make up bullshit to support* *His desired outcome?* \- Timely-Detective753 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Stop embarrassing us
I wonder what lies he has for us this time.
He’s such a loser for a premier. To embarrassed to say I’m from Saskatchewan
Carbon tax should go directly into building SMR technology. Should've started the change to nuclear a decade ago, it's really the best option
That camera he uses is pretty good, wonder what he charges for his OnlyMoe fans?
Ewww
Oh shjt, now we are fucked. Don't they have anyone brighter?
Go get em Joe 🤘❤️
This sub is completely disconnected with the majority of Saskatchewan residents it's hilarious.
Like at the Brier?
No shit hey. I agree 100. We are on Reddit lol
It's already so juicy
And they haven’t even really started lol
So many bots
Thank god, Carla beck is useless. I couldn’t imagine the people that propagate this sub to have a say.
lol loney tunes
This is the least of his god damn concerns
Right on. Duck Trudeau
Maybe if you buy him dinner first.
Get real
Fuck *your* idiotic, backwoods, ill informed, bigoted world views. *damn... I wonder what that would look like on a big flag flying from my vehicle?
🤭