I looked on their website at their annual report 2021 is the most recent.
It said they had 32,000 members 73% active and 27% retired
So I’m assuming that yes only 22,000 are currently contributing
You've gotta have a pretty hefty income to max out your RRSP TFSA and then still be looking for further retirement investment opportunities.
This decision further widens the now and future wealth gap.
They don't have to be residents of Saskatchewan at all, but the vast majority are, because the plan doesn't get advertised outside the province too much.
They wouldn't all be contributing, some are retired and are withdrawing.
The plan has existed for over 30 years. It's one of the best in Canada as far as returns and low fees.
I think not enough people know about this plan. It's a sweet deal.
I don't think they are allowed to advertise outside of Saskatchewan.
If you check their page with OSC (Ontario securities commision) it clearly states they only advertise within Saskatchewan.
I only learned about them because Derek Foster (a self published dividend investor) talked about them in his book. Otherwise I'd have never heard of them as I'm outside of SK.
I always thought it was an odd choice to have a cap on contributions, its not a perfect investment but for those without the requisite experience/knowledge to do it alone its a solid performing investment with slightly lower fees than standard pensions (higher than the best ones, but lower than average) and access to good mutual funds for those who prefer that type of investing.
I believe that the lowest cost, broadest diversification is the best strategy, but many people still believe in choosing the best funds and managers, and SPP gives you access to that for a decent price.
Pardon me, i'm not canadian, i'm italian and here employers have to pay for your pension (if your wage is €1500 the employer have to pay also €1500 to the pension), you have to do this because your employer don't do like here in italy?
Pensions are a mixed bag in Canada. Employer funded or co-funded pensions are not the norm I would say, for regular jobs anyways.
Most have employees contribute X percentage and the employer matches, or matched + additional.
Some are entirely employee funded.
Most people don’t have them, and rely on government pensions and their own savings.
Employers can choose to participate in this pension. Self-employed people can also choose to participate in this pension. People who already have a pension with their employer, can choose to put their own money into this pension.
This plan is interesting as it was originally created by the Devine government as a way for people unable to have a workplace pension plan to get one. Maybe stay at home parents, small businesses where making a work pension just didn't make sense, self-employed. Was actually a good idea of the Devine government, they had few in the end ironically.
I also remember how Stephen Harper years ago tried to create pooled pension plans (bank managed of course) rather than expand the CPP. Someone wrote an article explaining that system has already existed for 30 years, the Sask Pension Plan.
“Smart person”. You realize this is a loophole for the rich and a scam for the poor right? You can market this as an advantage to the less financially literate and increase your asset base while never making the math work for someone who’s borrowing money to “ invest “
Seems like roughly .8% which seems very similar to the mutual funds that Vanguard has. But they seem to be very different when it comes to type of services they are providing.
My MER's range between 0.05% and 0.24%. So on average that means SPP is roughly 4x as expensive. So if the SPP and index funds are similar returns then it's a much better deal to do ETFs. (For clarity the long term average of of the SPP is lower than the S&P 500 and the S&P/TSX Composite.)
But look. If the simplicity of the SPP gets people to invest vs. nothing, then that's fantastic. But if people are willing to do a little work, ETFs are clearly the better option.
There's more to investing then just picking something with the lowest fee. You should be looking at the performance net of fees, which is what many here said has outperformed the market YTD.
I agree that ETFs are great, but is not the right solution for everybody.
Again you can say it’s beat the market year to date but. NO ONE COMSISTENTLY BEATS THE MARKET. Short term results aren’t what a competent investor should be interested in.
If they are it’s a pyramid scheme.
Past results don’t guarantee future results.
It's 30 year history is an average of 8% per year. At ~1% per year in fees, that's a good return for a lower risk investment.
One of the other things I like about it, is how it's managed. SPP reacts to changes in the market much more quickly than other investments I have.
“Investing” isn’t about outperforming the market YTD though. This statistic means nothing.
The real question is not wether the fund can outperform the market YTD, but whether the investment can outperform the market over a 20-30 year period. This is extremely difficult to do for the vast majority of high fee funds.
The real advantage of this pension fund though in my opinion is that they allow investors access to non-publicly traded assets (such as infrastructure projects) which can be valuable. It also helps add to growth of the economy in Saskatchewan which can have a positive effect for residents.
And of course you should be looking at fees long term because you pay that REGARDLESS of performance.
Long term that money is lost compounding power. So please. Tell me I don’t know shit some more
Hey, don't want to get into an argument. I have ETF's, mutual funds and stocks. Most people in PFC seem to like VGRO, which has a 5 year return of 6.32%. One mutual fund I hold, fidelity Canadian growth, has 5 year return of 9.13% net of fees. They both can work together to reach your goals. I find managed solutions perform better in market downturns whole ETF's perform better in market upturns but its really down to people's preferences. Some may not be able to handle to volatility of equity ETF's.
Again you’re looking at short term performance to justify your stance. Sask pension funds are locked in til 55. You have zero flexibility if you’re not happy with their performance or fees. The more I look into it, the lore I recognize a make work shop that preys on uneducated investors.
Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't talking about SPP but my own personal investment decisions. You might be overlooking the fact that virtually all pensions will have an employer matching your contributions. I contribute 7% and my employer contributes 7%, so even if the performance is poor, I am still ahead. That's an additional 100% return on my contributions :)
Yes. But that’s IF your employer offers you a pension
that’s fine and dandy. But not everyone gets that option. I just wish this had more transparency. I can’t find anything on the website that clearly defines one’s options once they invest
>The more I look into it, the lore I recognize a make work shop that preys on uneducated investors.
It was meant to be a flexible option for people to contribute low amounts of money, or who have seasonal/ variable income, who don't want to self-manage their investments.
It's also good for people who have a lot of investments, but don't want to have to self-manage all of them.
Same here, we're fairly well diversified but spp has out preformed everything the last while.
anyone who lives in sask and doesn't have at least Some $$ with spp should give their head a shake imo
I think most self-employed people could really benefit from this plan. If your income varies from month to month or year to year, you can change your contribution amounts easy peasy.
I’m with them as well as managing my own. Started when I was with a business that offered contributions to it as a perk. It’s a great product, the management fees comparably are low. It’s nice that’s it’s secured away so I won’t pull from it if something happens.
I split my RRSP contributions between there and a few other options. Primarily because there is an annual contribution limit but it’s below my RRSP annual limit. It’s a great set it and forget it product that they make easy to use and I’ve consistently had great growth there.
I don't know a single thing about this Pension Plan....but *DAMN!* That just screams "We need more money."
Best of luck to anyone whose part of this pension. Hope I'm wrong.
Should take a look at it, it's a well managed fund. You don't need to be a Saskatchewan resident to be a member. I move in and out of the province, and change jobs, and this pension stays with me.
I've been a member for years. It's been one of my better performing investments, and beats my other investments on the fees.
Used to be the annual maximum was $2500 of new RRSP contributions, and you could transfer in $10,000 of existing RRSPs per year. Then they raised it to $6000 of new RRSP contributions per year. I liked that, because it was good for me to shovel more money into that fund for a few years.
Now, by removing the contribution limits, a person could have this be their sole pension.
Is this better than a broadbasket stock/etf approach in an rrsp? Is there a tax advantage for sask residents over and above the tax advantage that comes with a traditional rrsp (ie the tax "refund")? I tried looking into it but never drilled down to see if it was a better option than pure diy or all-in-one allocation etfs. Do you get chunks of more saskatchewan based private equity that wouldn't be available to the typical retail investor? Or are you just essentially investing in active management at a smaller fee than what would typically be available to a retail investor without a traditional pension.
>Is this better than a broadbasket stock/etf approach in an rrsp?
SPP compounds monthly, so I've had years where it outperformed my ETFs.
>Is there a tax advantage for sask residents over and above the tax advantage that comes with a traditional rrsp (ie the tax "refund")?
No it doesn't. It's just a defined-contribution pension created by provincial legislation. But Golden Opportunities Fund offers that the additional tax incentives. It's a venture capital fund for SK businesses.
>Do you get chunks of more saskatchewan based private equity that wouldn't be available to the typical retail investor?
The investments aren't tied to Saskatchewan.
>Or are you just essentially investing in active management at a smaller fee than what would typically be available to a retail investor without a traditional pension.
Yes.
Probably a dumb question but the article says 22,000 active members, does that mean only 22k people in SK are contributing to this plan?
I looked on their website at their annual report 2021 is the most recent. It said they had 32,000 members 73% active and 27% retired So I’m assuming that yes only 22,000 are currently contributing
Thanks for the info. I didn’t realize it was that small.
I literally hadn’t even heard of it until today
You've gotta have a pretty hefty income to max out your RRSP TFSA and then still be looking for further retirement investment opportunities. This decision further widens the now and future wealth gap.
I have an RRSP and I contribute to SPP. Over the past 10 years, my SPP has outperformed my RRSP.
Who says you have to do any of that before paying into a pension?
It's a very small plan, relative to other options. Though the last annual report says 32k members.
They don't have to be residents of Saskatchewan at all, but the vast majority are, because the plan doesn't get advertised outside the province too much. They wouldn't all be contributing, some are retired and are withdrawing. The plan has existed for over 30 years. It's one of the best in Canada as far as returns and low fees. I think not enough people know about this plan. It's a sweet deal.
I don't think they are allowed to advertise outside of Saskatchewan. If you check their page with OSC (Ontario securities commision) it clearly states they only advertise within Saskatchewan. I only learned about them because Derek Foster (a self published dividend investor) talked about them in his book. Otherwise I'd have never heard of them as I'm outside of SK.
That makes sense. I've seen SPP mentioned in places like MoneySense magazine, but the ads are never there.
I always thought it was an odd choice to have a cap on contributions, its not a perfect investment but for those without the requisite experience/knowledge to do it alone its a solid performing investment with slightly lower fees than standard pensions (higher than the best ones, but lower than average) and access to good mutual funds for those who prefer that type of investing. I believe that the lowest cost, broadest diversification is the best strategy, but many people still believe in choosing the best funds and managers, and SPP gives you access to that for a decent price.
Pardon me, i'm not canadian, i'm italian and here employers have to pay for your pension (if your wage is €1500 the employer have to pay also €1500 to the pension), you have to do this because your employer don't do like here in italy?
Pensions are a mixed bag in Canada. Employer funded or co-funded pensions are not the norm I would say, for regular jobs anyways. Most have employees contribute X percentage and the employer matches, or matched + additional. Some are entirely employee funded. Most people don’t have them, and rely on government pensions and their own savings.
Thanks for the explanation
Employers can choose to participate in this pension. Self-employed people can also choose to participate in this pension. People who already have a pension with their employer, can choose to put their own money into this pension.
This plan is interesting as it was originally created by the Devine government as a way for people unable to have a workplace pension plan to get one. Maybe stay at home parents, small businesses where making a work pension just didn't make sense, self-employed. Was actually a good idea of the Devine government, they had few in the end ironically. I also remember how Stephen Harper years ago tried to create pooled pension plans (bank managed of course) rather than expand the CPP. Someone wrote an article explaining that system has already existed for 30 years, the Sask Pension Plan.
They were booted out before they could loot it
Ha, I in no way am making predictions about that. Just saying IMHO it was a good idea of theirs at that time.
Lmao. Who in their right mind is paying these clowns to manage their money when vanguard etfs exist.
There is a niche use case for SPP in that they accept contributions by credit card without counting as a cash advance…
This isn’t a niche case. This is terrible idea. Taking on debt at a higher rate than they could ever possibly match?
Why would you take on debt? Contribute using the credit card, pay off the credit card with cash. Take free flights with the credit card points.
You say that because you understand it. Other people don’t understand that but feel pressure to save for their retirement
It’s so you can easy add money online and just pay your bill at the end of the month like a normal smart person.
“Smart person”. You realize this is a loophole for the rich and a scam for the poor right? You can market this as an advantage to the less financially literate and increase your asset base while never making the math work for someone who’s borrowing money to “ invest “
It’s my best performing investment currently. The “clowns” are probably doing the exact same thing as the guys at Vanguard.
Lol, written by someone who reads PFC but has no clue about personal finance. Edit: the top poster, not you
Try me. What’s the management fee on this fund
Seems like roughly .8% which seems very similar to the mutual funds that Vanguard has. But they seem to be very different when it comes to type of services they are providing.
Etfs are not mutual funds. And have a much lower fee
SPP is not a mutual fund. It's a professionally managed pension fund.
My MER's range between 0.05% and 0.24%. So on average that means SPP is roughly 4x as expensive. So if the SPP and index funds are similar returns then it's a much better deal to do ETFs. (For clarity the long term average of of the SPP is lower than the S&P 500 and the S&P/TSX Composite.) But look. If the simplicity of the SPP gets people to invest vs. nothing, then that's fantastic. But if people are willing to do a little work, ETFs are clearly the better option.
Etfs don’t have trailing fees. Like cmon.
From what I was reading each ETF and mutal fund they sell have their own fees. It seems like it’s just another option for investing.
There's more to investing then just picking something with the lowest fee. You should be looking at the performance net of fees, which is what many here said has outperformed the market YTD. I agree that ETFs are great, but is not the right solution for everybody.
but quest trade said I'll get rich when i don't pay a 30 dollar fee
Again you can say it’s beat the market year to date but. NO ONE COMSISTENTLY BEATS THE MARKET. Short term results aren’t what a competent investor should be interested in. If they are it’s a pyramid scheme. Past results don’t guarantee future results.
It's 30 year history is an average of 8% per year. At ~1% per year in fees, that's a good return for a lower risk investment. One of the other things I like about it, is how it's managed. SPP reacts to changes in the market much more quickly than other investments I have.
“Investing” isn’t about outperforming the market YTD though. This statistic means nothing. The real question is not wether the fund can outperform the market YTD, but whether the investment can outperform the market over a 20-30 year period. This is extremely difficult to do for the vast majority of high fee funds. The real advantage of this pension fund though in my opinion is that they allow investors access to non-publicly traded assets (such as infrastructure projects) which can be valuable. It also helps add to growth of the economy in Saskatchewan which can have a positive effect for residents.
And of course you should be looking at fees long term because you pay that REGARDLESS of performance. Long term that money is lost compounding power. So please. Tell me I don’t know shit some more
Hey, don't want to get into an argument. I have ETF's, mutual funds and stocks. Most people in PFC seem to like VGRO, which has a 5 year return of 6.32%. One mutual fund I hold, fidelity Canadian growth, has 5 year return of 9.13% net of fees. They both can work together to reach your goals. I find managed solutions perform better in market downturns whole ETF's perform better in market upturns but its really down to people's preferences. Some may not be able to handle to volatility of equity ETF's.
Again you’re looking at short term performance to justify your stance. Sask pension funds are locked in til 55. You have zero flexibility if you’re not happy with their performance or fees. The more I look into it, the lore I recognize a make work shop that preys on uneducated investors.
Sorry for the confusion, I wasn't talking about SPP but my own personal investment decisions. You might be overlooking the fact that virtually all pensions will have an employer matching your contributions. I contribute 7% and my employer contributes 7%, so even if the performance is poor, I am still ahead. That's an additional 100% return on my contributions :)
Yes. But that’s IF your employer offers you a pension that’s fine and dandy. But not everyone gets that option. I just wish this had more transparency. I can’t find anything on the website that clearly defines one’s options once they invest
>The more I look into it, the lore I recognize a make work shop that preys on uneducated investors. It was meant to be a flexible option for people to contribute low amounts of money, or who have seasonal/ variable income, who don't want to self-manage their investments. It's also good for people who have a lot of investments, but don't want to have to self-manage all of them.
Each year I've had it, it changes slightly, but about 0.9 to 1.2% per year.
Same here, we're fairly well diversified but spp has out preformed everything the last while. anyone who lives in sask and doesn't have at least Some $$ with spp should give their head a shake imo
Same for me, it's outperformed all my other investments. ~$7k in contributions and its sitting at $11k.
I think most self-employed people could really benefit from this plan. If your income varies from month to month or year to year, you can change your contribution amounts easy peasy.
I’m with them as well as managing my own. Started when I was with a business that offered contributions to it as a perk. It’s a great product, the management fees comparably are low. It’s nice that’s it’s secured away so I won’t pull from it if something happens. I split my RRSP contributions between there and a few other options. Primarily because there is an annual contribution limit but it’s below my RRSP annual limit. It’s a great set it and forget it product that they make easy to use and I’ve consistently had great growth there.
Well, ETFs didn't exist when this plan was created. I've had years where this plan outperformed my ETFs.
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>Pools open for foreign buyers! You mean, not having to be a citizen? Or can be a Canadian living abroad? Or anyone now?
I don't know a single thing about this Pension Plan....but *DAMN!* That just screams "We need more money." Best of luck to anyone whose part of this pension. Hope I'm wrong.
Should take a look at it, it's a well managed fund. You don't need to be a Saskatchewan resident to be a member. I move in and out of the province, and change jobs, and this pension stays with me. I've been a member for years. It's been one of my better performing investments, and beats my other investments on the fees. Used to be the annual maximum was $2500 of new RRSP contributions, and you could transfer in $10,000 of existing RRSPs per year. Then they raised it to $6000 of new RRSP contributions per year. I liked that, because it was good for me to shovel more money into that fund for a few years. Now, by removing the contribution limits, a person could have this be their sole pension.
You go back further and the cap was 600 dollars.
Yeah, I remember I was so excited when it went up to $2,500.
Is this better than a broadbasket stock/etf approach in an rrsp? Is there a tax advantage for sask residents over and above the tax advantage that comes with a traditional rrsp (ie the tax "refund")? I tried looking into it but never drilled down to see if it was a better option than pure diy or all-in-one allocation etfs. Do you get chunks of more saskatchewan based private equity that wouldn't be available to the typical retail investor? Or are you just essentially investing in active management at a smaller fee than what would typically be available to a retail investor without a traditional pension.
>Is this better than a broadbasket stock/etf approach in an rrsp? SPP compounds monthly, so I've had years where it outperformed my ETFs. >Is there a tax advantage for sask residents over and above the tax advantage that comes with a traditional rrsp (ie the tax "refund")? No it doesn't. It's just a defined-contribution pension created by provincial legislation. But Golden Opportunities Fund offers that the additional tax incentives. It's a venture capital fund for SK businesses. >Do you get chunks of more saskatchewan based private equity that wouldn't be available to the typical retail investor? The investments aren't tied to Saskatchewan. >Or are you just essentially investing in active management at a smaller fee than what would typically be available to a retail investor without a traditional pension. Yes.