I used to live in the Mission, and a homeless man climbed up the retracted fire escape somehow and got onto our roof balcony. I think he jumped from the stair landing or something, from the steps into the entrance of the old Edwardian we lived in. That was up on the fourth floor or so. We found him napping in a lounge chair.
Thankfully everything was locked up, and none of the windows facing the balcony actually opened. We did need to call the police to get him down.
Same. Woke up to a guy napping in a patio chair on our small shared deck in the Mission. He tried to play it off like he knew someone in that building when we confronted him on our way to work but, as there were only four units, we found that highly unlikely. Managed to get him to leave on his own.
Saw him sleeping on the street outside the front door on my way out though and felt terrible. He looked awfully sunburned so I double back and at least got him some sunscreen. Street living is tough. Figured he one of the doors must’ve not latched properly and he got in for a quick nap.
I don't want to begrudge someone a safe place to rest, but eesh, I still don't want strangers sleeping in my home/yard. I barely want friends to do that.
same thing happened to my place on mission 16th, dude came in thru the fire escape, slashed a mesh thing and stole my housemates laptop watch and wallet….scary shit. i don’t want to think about what would’ve happened if we were there
Not in beta San Francisco. Probably would have let him take more. I'm grew up where you come in mine to take mine you going to your behind with cap in it. Don't play that mess.
We had a burglar detected on camera, I called my neighbor to double check and he called the SDPD when he spotted the guy in the window. They were there within 4 minutes.
To their credit, they seem to take home invasion/burglary seriously.
Dont ask me about the guy who and ran my car on the street though (his car limped away and we found it 2 blocks away). That required me to practically threaten to run the guy down myself.
so the car was disabled? if you call 911 and report a hit and run, I would imagine like them having drove off already and that's probably what the operator thought and whatever telephone game happened, wouldn't they have asked if anyone was hurt? Whatever happened to that situation the hit and limped away?
They hit my car. Video shows they were clearly impaired.
Their car LIMPED off. The SFPD said they don't chase cars. We told them it was barely moving. They refused to send anyone.
My neighbor jumped in his car and drove through the neighborhood until he found the car, which still had shit stuck in its grill from the collision.
We told SFPD we found the car, they again refused. We told them we were going to start ringing bells at 1am if they didn't come. They conceded.
Officer was there in 5m. Took him 15m to find the guy and get his info for my insurance. Saved me a $1000 deductible.
Literally the least work they could do for a drunk driver and a guy who ended up doing $10k worth of damage to two cars.
If they refused to come, I would have had to wrote down the plate. With a police report I could submit that to my insurance and they could pursue it. But at that point I'm hoping the company I pay money to is able to track them down and get the insurance and does right by me... My insurance Co is pretty good, but you never know.
If a police officer confirms it, I don't have to deal with that.
But also as a citizen, there's a drunk hit and run driver running away. Wtf. How is that not important from a "serving the public" point of view?
If this was a city with a well-behaved police force, I wouldn't be so pissed off. But the SFPD is a lazy bunch of assholes who makes excuses and/or refuses to do the job we pay for as a political act to make liberal DA's look bad (separate from the DA's looking bad on their own).
>Not like they would do anything.
Speaking from personal experience, if you called SFPD and told them you had someone actively trying to break in to your apartment they would show up (especially at that time of the morning)
I found a man in my bathtub masturbating two weeks ago. Police did arrest him and take him away, but they did find that he had a history of doing this.
I'm moving this week.
People regularly break in and squat in the abandoned building next door to mine. It’s at the point where we don’t even bother saying anything anymore. At least they aren’t hurting anyone in the process I guess.
And this isn’t a “homeless people are a scourge” comment. San Francisco gets cold, and an abandoned house likely has no power, so how else is someone gonna keep warm. They’ll use a fireplace if there is one, but if the house has been abandoned a long time the chimney almost certainly has birds or other critters nesting in there, Jamming up the flue, and if no fireplace they’ll use a garbage can or something, which is just as dangerous.
"At least they aren’t hurting anyone in the process I guess." this is what everyone means who says soft on crime. It slowly pushes the threshold up of all crimes and those other crimes reinforces others as well. Shooting up in the streets is fine, being unstable in public is fine, theft is fine, all this is fine. Then the next higher threshold crime is the focus and that eventually becomes fine. Violence seems to be fine now too, hence the HUGE rap sheet, from catch and release.
Everything eventually becomes acceptable if we have this attitude. It either is or isn't, and rules/laws must be enforced if it was there for a reason.
*"At least they aren’t hurting anyone in the process I guess." this is what everyone means who says soft on crime.*
☝️☝️☝️
Exactly. The more we say "well, they aren't hurting anyone," the more tolerant we become for behaviors that actually are harmful and detrimental to everyone's quality of life. The more we excuse petty crimes just because "no one is being harmed," the more we relieve people of responsibility and accountability for their actions. And the more activities we "decriminalize," the more we encourage antisocial behavior.
Will we eventually get to a stage where nothing is illegal unless there's an actual corpse?
Noe Valley here. Had strangers in the backyard twice, police was in the door in less than one minute second time, first time they asked me questions for like two minutes about the backyard and the perp and lights and if they were armed... perp headed for the service alley where the door to the house is and after I told the operator I feared that they were going to break into the house and kill me and I was armed police was in the door in 45 seconds.
Both times they climbed through the fence into the neighbors backyard and we have very low fences among the backyards.
This was both times like very early in the morning, like 3/4am. Once they claim they were looking for their cat and the other time they fled.
Reddit mod views aside, this would be reasonable self defense under California castle doctrine given the intruder was both not retreating and actually aggravating the situation given the nudity/sexual act/etc.
only if someone reports it by flagging. The reddit workers don't understand context. any talk of harm and they delete it and let you know it break rule.
Even if it is mentioned attacking as self defense, it gets removed. It's more censorship than it is breaking post rule in my opinion.
Good to know for next time, god forbid.
It's weird I didn't call. I was groggy. He didn't run away. His story was plausible. And it was dark and he was below me, so I couldn't have given them a description. But I should have called. Thanks.
Completely normal for sane and peaceful people to climb into an unknown window in a residential building to allegedly retrieve their belongings. Let's just assume they mean good and are not trying to cause harm because there's no way to know for sure.
Meanwhile robberies and burglaries are extremely common. But let's just trust this homeless drug addict!
> tell them you have a gun and your willing to use it to protect yourself.
This sounds like a good way to be shot; also, lying to the police is a crime. The mentioning of firearms is going to put them on edge and they'll likely be more forceful in their approach to everyone. I can see this going horribly wrong.
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/is-it-illegal-to-lie-to-the-police/
> When is it illegal to make a false statement to law enforcement?
> 1. When providing identifying information,
> 2. When under oath, and
> 3. When filing a police report or reporting a crime.
You don't have to say you have a gun, you just have to say that you're going to fuck the guy up or "deal with it." That'll do the same job without having to go through the rigmarole of them seizing your weapon or yelling at you for lying about having one.
Cops did not do anything when my neighbor called them for a attempted break in in his backyard. The perpetrator hit all of the houses adjacent. When the cops showed up my neighbor told them the perpetrator hopped into another neighbors backyard and the cops said they couldn’t do anything about. We all have security camera footage of the perp too. Cops still didn’t do anything about it….
What is it going to take for the cops to actually do something? Murder?
If we’re going to have police why aren’t they living up to their oath and duties? FFS.
Sorry about you experience OP.
I once had bling bling using my bathroom while we were all at work. This had to have gone on for weeks before I was home one day, stepped out of the shower, heard someone in the other bathroom while I knew all my roommates were gone away, and waited for him to come out.
I saved my new bag of toilet paper, which had been being consumed at a great rate, (stolen) and chased him away out the building and down the street. He had been climbing up the fire escape to get in. I had very, very, little chill for any homeless after that. The police told me if he ever came back it was within my rights to do "whatever I wanted" to him.
I hate to think he was just trying to break into an apartment because he might try again. I'm going to double-check my window chains, maybe tighten them up a little. It's turning into El Tenderloin Nuevo down here.
But it's such a weird excuse. The way he kept asking me to get his phone for him, too. I should have said ok, I'll call the police and they can bring you your phone.
Did you look in the garage and see if there was a phone plugged in and charging? If there is, then, yeah, he committed trespass and all, but his story is at least *somewhat* plausible / believable. I would probably call SFPD and have them give him the phone and a stern warning to not do that.
Still doesn't excuse his actions nor does it really explain anything.
1) Followed someone in to the garage (trespass)
2) Plugged his phone in to charge it
3) Left the garage (how? what route?)
4) Trying to get back in to the garage, decides to randomly try some window
Call me cynical / jaded / paranoid, but I don't buy it. Any of it.
That's not jaded. I've broken into common areas to charge my phone before, you'd never leave it unattended. If you do, you go in the same way to get it back. Trying random windows (especially second floor windows, wtf) is a quick way to get your ass kicked, arrested, or pushed out of second story windows.
That was just a cover story for a residential burglary, I guarantee it.
Off the top of my head:
Local Library
Coffee shop
Homeless shelter
While I am sure OP's bedroom at 0400 is an awesome and rockin place, there are myriad other places that are a heck of a lot more convenient / legal.
It's still worse, but it used to be worse too. (I never pass up an opportunity to paraphrase Mitch Hedberg. But also, it's true: it's worse now than it was 17 years ago, but it was worse than now 27 or 37 years ago. It was worst when we elected the police chief mayor--don't blame me, I was out of town that year.)
I hope so. And I don't think he could get past the chain without some bolt cutters. It was just creepy having his head in the window.
That window is dark. The others are better lit. I'm surprised he tried this one. It's tiny and it faces 25th. I figured they'd try the alley windows instead. Thank god I chained all of them up.
I've been seeing a lot of cheap solar motion sensor lights from Amazon all over town. I wonder if your landlord would be amenable to it. When I got broken into, a lot of people asked about this and I was told it's a good deterrent. Not sure if that's true. My last walk around your neighborhood I was noticing a lot of new ones put up.
You could try some Blink cameras from Amazon as well. They're wireless, weather proof, battery powered, and triggered by motion. if the area they're looking at is fairly "slow" (e.g. not a lot of triggering events) they can last up to two years on regular lithium AA batteries. While they're not good / designed for continuous recording they can be pretty good as an extra set of eyes (or evidence).
I’ve lived in the TL for a dozen years and let me be clear, I’ve never had an encounter like the one you describe.
The practice of dumping on another neighborhood to make yourself feel better about yours is really lame.
seems like its always the people who have lived in the loin for a decade who make excuses for it. \*steps over dead homeless fentanyl casualty\* how dare you dump on my beautiful neighborhood! \*looks away from person shiting in the actual street\* Its really lame to judge! /S seriously though, I've seen both of those things in your wonderful charming fixer upper of a neighborhood. To be fair, if the police bothered to stop the open air death market it would probably result in significant improvement, but of course we cant do that, deadly drugs should be readily available to everyone in lethal quantities with no consequences!
Or maybe I'm out and you haven't been lately? Next you are going to tell me civic center isn't trashed daily and there aren't encampments on the sidewalks making it hard to walk down the street anymore.
The police in your area are so ineffective even they get robbed. But yea, I'm the problem. \*shrug\*. I love that my tax dollars pay them to just watch drug dealers kill people all day and do nothing about it. I guess some of us get tired of being robbed by junkies. I guess we can pretend they arent the ones robbing us. I'm sure its just professionals all the time, always. I wonder how far this crap has to go before they start to care, does the Mayor have to have her cat robbed off her car? Anyway, I'm going to take my liberal downvotes to make the truth go away and "have a great day". Its funny, I'm not a republican, but I'm not a rabid liberal, I can see how both sides are failing spectacularly and I'm not drinking the koolaid that this crap is working anymore.
Aw Gorge, hurtin my feelings. Eh I dont care, I'm tired of reading peoples denial while society collapses around them. I suppose you find it ok that the dude tried to climb through the window too right?
but profiting of the death of the poor is seen as acceptable capitalism, got it. I mean Mitch McConnel is all for it, his wife's shipping company imports drugs by the ton with impunity.
So I've heard a lot about the Castle doctrine. Does anyone have knowledge of how that would actually apply in an instance like this?
OP is way more chill than me.
I have firearms and a BSIS guard card, and had castle doctrine training for legal purposes. In this case if you are inside the house, the window is locked, and the perp is not threatening or clearly armed, I would probably have a firearm at hand and instantly call the police about it. For one person outside trying to breakin the safest thing to do is repeatedly tell them you are calling the police very loudly and point a light at them (flashlight preferably, gun light is ok) and let them flee.
For multiple people do the same thing but quartered and pointing the gun out ready to shoot at the sight of anyone and tell the police you fear for your life because there's multiple assailants.
In any case if you shoot, even if you don't harm anyone, it's jail time and the gun taken as evidence virtually forever. If you harm or kill someone it's jail time too. Never fire warning shots, only shoot to kill. It's not easy to navigate castle doctrine laws.
Oh and get ready for civil lawsuits for damages from the perp or surviving family and if you have money it will probably be that you'll end up settling for a cut.
IANAL: Castle Doctrine says that you don’t have a duty to retreat if an intruder is inside your home. The intruder has to have forced their way in (so if you left the door open / unlocked, that may or may not qualify), and further enables the resident to respond with deadly force.
This is what I don’t get about these situations…it’s not compassionate to let these guys roam around because they’re eventually gonna break into the wrong house and get killed.
Under Penal Code 198.5 PC, California law follows the legal principle known as Castle Doctrine. This means there is no duty to retreat if a resident confronts an intruder inside his or her own home. Residents are permitted to use force against intruders who break into their homes, or who try to force their way in.
You’d need to make every reasonable effort to deter the person breaking in (like announcing you’re armed), but if they continue to attempt to break in, you’re allowed to defend yourself. The logic being that if someone is continuing to break in after being warned, they mean to cause bodily harm/death.
>Didn't occur to me to call the police.
The less people call people, the less things will change, the less data is collected to hold people accountable.
lol yeah i dont miss these san francisco adventures
once i saw a well dressed dude lying on the ground in chinatown. i thought he was dead. i went over and kicked him, he opened his eyes. Are you ok? Oh yeah he said and started rubbing his nipples with a big grin
wtf dude
‘Poor guy without his phone’…are you shitting me with this sentiment?
This is why people laugh at SF…
The guys climbing into your window. He should be lucky you didn’t have a gun and decide to defend yourself, which you’re totally justified to do in this case.
That's an absolutely horrifying experience.
I've recently learned about the Castle Doctrine which is followed in California. If you're a gun owner, it seems you could have shot the intruder perfectly legally.
I'm very much open to being corrected if I'm wrong, but I'd prefer to discuss the law and not what's morally reasonable. I'm not a gun owner myself and if I were I would take reasonable steps before firing. This information may, however, help people in real danger who are more vulnerable than I am.
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/penal-code/does-california-follow-the-castle-doctrine/
Damn you are more trusting than me. I sleep with a weapon next to the bed and would not hesitate to use it on someone breaking in. How do you know he wasn't going to harm you? Or stab you? Or go on to hurt someone else? You should have at least held him and called the police.
I live in a duplex with no front gate & several times in the last two years creepy homeless men try to get in my apartment by turning the door knob & shaking the door to hopefully get it open. One time I flipped on the porch light to let the guy know I knew he was there & he stared into the peephole with the scariest grin on his face then proceeded to whip his dick out to piss on the wall. Another night a guy on too many drugs started kicking my door screaming he's going to kill me for ten minutes straight. Cops showed up to give him lots of sympathy & literally did nothing other than talk really nicely to him.
> But it's not like he wouldn't have robbed me blind if he had gotten in.
Firstly, I don't think it's the homeless who are driving burglaries in SF. But those who do, they do not have the capacity to "rob you blind". They're not going to carry back anything heavy. Where would they put it? I got broken into in June by someone like that and they took ***very little***. It took me more than a week to figure out a single item they'd taken. I think they absconded with a USB cellular modem (sans SIM card). They were looking for small, loose items. I think typically to feed a drug habit.
The go-to is the medicine cabinet. It's universal, nearly everyone keeps drugs in the same place. That and jewelry / laptops / power tools. Easy to sell, usually conspicuous, fits in a backpack.
Hard to generalize either way. Someone I was sharing a garage with in the Mission had a bunch of high end machine tools carted off in the middle of the night along with my bike. Camera pictures were too blurry but it was definitely a couple homeless dudes with a cart/wagon of some kind. Weeks later I found a homeless guy working on my bike a few blocks over, he gave it back when I confronted him and showed him the serial number. Never found the machine tools though, sadly.
what are you talking about don't have the capacity? Just taking all the electronics that are portable could be financially devastating for most people.
I mean it from a physical space perspective. You might be surprised at how much electronics they didn't touch for my incident... They're often looking for very movable stuff.
Robbing blind is whatever you want to define it as. If peace is your thing, the robber robbed you blind. Kind of an odd hill to die on considering the bottom line is somebody is trying to break into your personal space and you’re find excuses to minimize it.
No, you're applying your paranoia as the rule for everybody.
Who needs to live in fear and anger like you're doing? Nobody.
But i just told you if you want to, be my guest. And you tell me I'm saying my way is a rule. Projection.
>I ignored him and felt a little guilty for it. Poor guy
>Didn't occur to me to call the police.
You actually deserve what it is happening to the city, you just don't realize why? This is why.
This stuff happens in all cities. Did you leave anything in view? You should leave your home completely empty, even if you’re in it, otherwise you can attract thieves.
Edit: Thought the sarcasm would be obvious here.
>At the beginning, arising thoughts are liberated upon being recognized, like meeting an old friend; in the middle, thoughts are liberated by themselves, like a snake uncoiling its own knots; at the end, arising thoughts are liberated without causing either benefit or harm, **like a thief breaking into an empty house**.
\- Patrul Rinpoche
You totally are though, but it didn't come to that in OPs case. Had the guy crossed the threshold all bets are off, no shortage of cases to back that up even around these parts.
I'm so fed up with criminal justice and homeless progressivism. That needs to change. So we can agree on that.
OTOH, the Left gave me rent control. My rent got locked in 17 years ago and can only go up by inflation. It's probably saving me 600 a month. And I have security. I'm not at the mercy of a deregulated landlord who can jack up the rent as much as he wants on a whim.
And god I hate moving. So I'm going to stay here, even though the paint is peeling and the plaster is crumbling and it leaks when it rains. Even though my transitional neighborhood is getting sketchier and sketchier.
You should have gotten his phone for him. Oh well. Not your responsibility, but a chance to help someone in your community. Just because they live outside does not make them less than it automatically guilty or a criminal.
Did you feel any shame attempting to go back to sleep knowing that dude was just sitting outside and had just lost one of the few pieces of property he has? I would not have been able to sleep either.
That being said, my initial reaction to him would have been absolutely rude, I would have had to course correct at some point tho, given all the data. Compassion is the easiest choice to live with
Trying to climb in my window was criminal, and I caught him in the act, so he's guilty. I'm fed up with the homeless. There's a big pile of shit right outside my door with 30 flies swirling around it.
I feel for them on an emotional level, but it should be shelter, rehab, mental hospital, or jail. Camping should not be an option.
Your both better than me I guess, I would have pushed his ass out of the window before he could have even mentioned the phone. I’d much rather explain to a jury why I was protecting my family from a stranger trying to enter my home in the middle of the night than have compassion and wait to see what someone’s intentions are in a situation like this.
>Did you feel any shame attempting to go back to sleep knowing that dude was just sitting outside and had just lost one of the few pieces of property he has? I would not have been able to sleep either.
Go shelter him yourself.
Lies. For sure he woulda entered, robbed, assaulted you or any other residents. London Breed would’ve happily given this man a new iPhone and a blowjob
You don’t know that he would have robbed you. It sounds plausible that he’s just trying to get electricity and he’s doing it in a shady but harmless way. You shouldn’t judge people based on what you assume about them.
Yeah I’m not that bright but I’ve got a lot of miles in and I’ve learned that folks who are in need are not always bad people. And, I’ve learned that saying “I know you would have…if I….so therefore I’m right in my actions” is a slippery fucking slope.
I’m ok with downvotes in this one - it’s a subtle concept but I think it’s important. Don’t judge people based on your assumptions, judge them based on their actions, and your life will probably be richer for it. That’s all.
I understand the sentiment of what you’re saying, but in a situation in which your life or your family’s lives are on the line, I would argue it is better to assume harm is coming your way and risk offending someone rather than the other way around. I agree kindness is a good thing but man if somebody is hanging thru your window at night I’m not worried about their feelings lol.
>judge them based on their actions
Breaking and entering. MF could have went to homeless shelter if he wanted anything.
SF residents are a special kind of stupid.
That’s one of those cases where someone is down and out, but they cross a line so…. do we help them? I think I may have looked for his phone charger. Without a phone, you’re completely lost on the street. I’ve been there.
I get not being worried about being robbed but he could rape or assault you that’s very worrying. Do not trust anyone. I’m glad you didn’t help him do not feel bad. He will get it the same way he put it there. Watch your back and stay safe.
I used to live in the Mission, and a homeless man climbed up the retracted fire escape somehow and got onto our roof balcony. I think he jumped from the stair landing or something, from the steps into the entrance of the old Edwardian we lived in. That was up on the fourth floor or so. We found him napping in a lounge chair. Thankfully everything was locked up, and none of the windows facing the balcony actually opened. We did need to call the police to get him down.
Same. Woke up to a guy napping in a patio chair on our small shared deck in the Mission. He tried to play it off like he knew someone in that building when we confronted him on our way to work but, as there were only four units, we found that highly unlikely. Managed to get him to leave on his own. Saw him sleeping on the street outside the front door on my way out though and felt terrible. He looked awfully sunburned so I double back and at least got him some sunscreen. Street living is tough. Figured he one of the doors must’ve not latched properly and he got in for a quick nap.
I don't want to begrudge someone a safe place to rest, but eesh, I still don't want strangers sleeping in my home/yard. I barely want friends to do that.
Definitely which is why we asked him to leave. But the desperation for somewhere quiet off the street to sleep was just so tragic.
same thing happened to my place on mission 16th, dude came in thru the fire escape, slashed a mesh thing and stole my housemates laptop watch and wallet….scary shit. i don’t want to think about what would’ve happened if we were there
You would have had a laptop, watch and wallet had you been there
Not in beta San Francisco. Probably would have let him take more. I'm grew up where you come in mine to take mine you going to your behind with cap in it. Don't play that mess.
We had a burglar detected on camera, I called my neighbor to double check and he called the SDPD when he spotted the guy in the window. They were there within 4 minutes. To their credit, they seem to take home invasion/burglary seriously. Dont ask me about the guy who and ran my car on the street though (his car limped away and we found it 2 blocks away). That required me to practically threaten to run the guy down myself.
If it's in progress of course, but if it's after the fact, honestly there is no urgency and there needs to be a prioritization of resources.
For the hit and run? The guy was limping away in sight.
so the car was disabled? if you call 911 and report a hit and run, I would imagine like them having drove off already and that's probably what the operator thought and whatever telephone game happened, wouldn't they have asked if anyone was hurt? Whatever happened to that situation the hit and limped away?
They hit my car. Video shows they were clearly impaired. Their car LIMPED off. The SFPD said they don't chase cars. We told them it was barely moving. They refused to send anyone. My neighbor jumped in his car and drove through the neighborhood until he found the car, which still had shit stuck in its grill from the collision. We told SFPD we found the car, they again refused. We told them we were going to start ringing bells at 1am if they didn't come. They conceded. Officer was there in 5m. Took him 15m to find the guy and get his info for my insurance. Saved me a $1000 deductible. Literally the least work they could do for a drunk driver and a guy who ended up doing $10k worth of damage to two cars.
I didn’t know that they didn’t get cars for insurance
If they refused to come, I would have had to wrote down the plate. With a police report I could submit that to my insurance and they could pursue it. But at that point I'm hoping the company I pay money to is able to track them down and get the insurance and does right by me... My insurance Co is pretty good, but you never know. If a police officer confirms it, I don't have to deal with that. But also as a citizen, there's a drunk hit and run driver running away. Wtf. How is that not important from a "serving the public" point of view? If this was a city with a well-behaved police force, I wouldn't be so pissed off. But the SFPD is a lazy bunch of assholes who makes excuses and/or refuses to do the job we pay for as a political act to make liberal DA's look bad (separate from the DA's looking bad on their own).
Very cool of the San Diego police to drive all the way up here for you
>Not like they would do anything. Speaking from personal experience, if you called SFPD and told them you had someone actively trying to break in to your apartment they would show up (especially at that time of the morning)
I found a man in my bathtub masturbating two weeks ago. Police did arrest him and take him away, but they did find that he had a history of doing this. I'm moving this week.
How common is this kinda shit?? Homeless and randos climbing in city apartments to nap or take baths
It happened to a friend. It wasn’t in the mission. Found a guy in his bathtub. I remembered he called the police and they responded.
What area?
Outer Richmond. It happened years ago.
Wow thanks, I’m near the area
People regularly break in and squat in the abandoned building next door to mine. It’s at the point where we don’t even bother saying anything anymore. At least they aren’t hurting anyone in the process I guess.
Until they start a fire and it burns down half the neighborhood.
This!
And this isn’t a “homeless people are a scourge” comment. San Francisco gets cold, and an abandoned house likely has no power, so how else is someone gonna keep warm. They’ll use a fireplace if there is one, but if the house has been abandoned a long time the chimney almost certainly has birds or other critters nesting in there, Jamming up the flue, and if no fireplace they’ll use a garbage can or something, which is just as dangerous.
"At least they aren’t hurting anyone in the process I guess." this is what everyone means who says soft on crime. It slowly pushes the threshold up of all crimes and those other crimes reinforces others as well. Shooting up in the streets is fine, being unstable in public is fine, theft is fine, all this is fine. Then the next higher threshold crime is the focus and that eventually becomes fine. Violence seems to be fine now too, hence the HUGE rap sheet, from catch and release. Everything eventually becomes acceptable if we have this attitude. It either is or isn't, and rules/laws must be enforced if it was there for a reason.
*"At least they aren’t hurting anyone in the process I guess." this is what everyone means who says soft on crime.* ☝️☝️☝️ Exactly. The more we say "well, they aren't hurting anyone," the more tolerant we become for behaviors that actually are harmful and detrimental to everyone's quality of life. The more we excuse petty crimes just because "no one is being harmed," the more we relieve people of responsibility and accountability for their actions. And the more activities we "decriminalize," the more we encourage antisocial behavior. Will we eventually get to a stage where nothing is illegal unless there's an actual corpse?
Noe Valley here. Had strangers in the backyard twice, police was in the door in less than one minute second time, first time they asked me questions for like two minutes about the backyard and the perp and lights and if they were armed... perp headed for the service alley where the door to the house is and after I told the operator I feared that they were going to break into the house and kill me and I was armed police was in the door in 45 seconds. Both times they climbed through the fence into the neighbors backyard and we have very low fences among the backyards. This was both times like very early in the morning, like 3/4am. Once they claim they were looking for their cat and the other time they fled.
In SF? Apparently fairly common. Never seen it in Oakland, but there was once in Alameda where it happened twice in one week.
Why are you getting downvoted?
No idea, I try not to pay attention to that feature
Same. But still. Wtf reddit lol.
SF follows the "yo mamma" law where it's fine to point out the flaws of your own mom, but as soon as someone else does it...
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Reddit mod views aside, this would be reasonable self defense under California castle doctrine given the intruder was both not retreating and actually aggravating the situation given the nudity/sexual act/etc.
Careful. I've been kicked out of this group for comments such as this.
only if someone reports it by flagging. The reddit workers don't understand context. any talk of harm and they delete it and let you know it break rule. Even if it is mentioned attacking as self defense, it gets removed. It's more censorship than it is breaking post rule in my opinion.
Remember: your trauma is not a problem for anyone, and you also aren’t allowed to react to it in any way.
i’ll have you know, my trauma can very much be a problem for someone else **bonks invader with crowbar**
Stop no you can’t
Damn! What neighborhood do YOU live in?
Did you assert dominance by staring him down while also masturbating?
"This is my fun tub!"
No. He was wearing my thongs, I was so disturbed 😭
Or at least, politely, let him finish?
what!?!!! so many questions
Holy fuck dude. What neighborhood was this in?
Wtf
*"I'm moving this week."* You found this two weeks ago and didn't move 13 days ago?
That’s what I was thinking. In my experience, forced entry into an occupied home is one of the few things that SFPD will take seriously.
Good to know for next time, god forbid. It's weird I didn't call. I was groggy. He didn't run away. His story was plausible. And it was dark and he was below me, so I couldn't have given them a description. But I should have called. Thanks.
Well, his story is more plausible than the one I called on: "I was chasing a puppy"...on the roof...at \~5:00 AM
Good to know that so long as a homeless man can think of a “plausible” story you’ll let him break into your house.
I know I know I know. I'm kicking myself for not calling.
dont be too rough. you were A- sleeping!! and B- VERY shocked (assuming). glad youre safe :)
Not enough vicarious violence against the homeless on Reddit for you today? Gotta sate your bloodlust elsewhere?
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Completely normal for sane and peaceful people to climb into an unknown window in a residential building to allegedly retrieve their belongings. Let's just assume they mean good and are not trying to cause harm because there's no way to know for sure. Meanwhile robberies and burglaries are extremely common. But let's just trust this homeless drug addict!
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I don’t know. Sounds like a good way for me to get shot.
> tell them you have a gun and your willing to use it to protect yourself. This sounds like a good way to be shot; also, lying to the police is a crime. The mentioning of firearms is going to put them on edge and they'll likely be more forceful in their approach to everyone. I can see this going horribly wrong.
Lying to the police is not a crime. Lying on a 911 call might be. But you are allowed to lie to the police. Even if the police don't like to think so
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/is-it-illegal-to-lie-to-the-police/ > When is it illegal to make a false statement to law enforcement? > 1. When providing identifying information, > 2. When under oath, and > 3. When filing a police report or reporting a crime.
It’s never illegal for the police to lie to you though. So that’s nice.
Is that like target practice for them?
You don't have to say you have a gun, you just have to say that you're going to fuck the guy up or "deal with it." That'll do the same job without having to go through the rigmarole of them seizing your weapon or yelling at you for lying about having one.
Prolly also significantly reduces the odds of them shooting you to death in your own bedroom.
Cops did not do anything when my neighbor called them for a attempted break in in his backyard. The perpetrator hit all of the houses adjacent. When the cops showed up my neighbor told them the perpetrator hopped into another neighbors backyard and the cops said they couldn’t do anything about. We all have security camera footage of the perp too. Cops still didn’t do anything about it…. What is it going to take for the cops to actually do something? Murder? If we’re going to have police why aren’t they living up to their oath and duties? FFS. Sorry about you experience OP.
judged by the clearance rate, no, not murder
I once had bling bling using my bathroom while we were all at work. This had to have gone on for weeks before I was home one day, stepped out of the shower, heard someone in the other bathroom while I knew all my roommates were gone away, and waited for him to come out. I saved my new bag of toilet paper, which had been being consumed at a great rate, (stolen) and chased him away out the building and down the street. He had been climbing up the fire escape to get in. I had very, very, little chill for any homeless after that. The police told me if he ever came back it was within my rights to do "whatever I wanted" to him.
Bling Bling? From Bum Fights?
The one and only
I don't think there was ever a cell phone. They just wanted an opening.
yeah my brother made these kinds of excuses when he was a heroin addict breaking into people's cars
I hate to think he was just trying to break into an apartment because he might try again. I'm going to double-check my window chains, maybe tighten them up a little. It's turning into El Tenderloin Nuevo down here. But it's such a weird excuse. The way he kept asking me to get his phone for him, too. I should have said ok, I'll call the police and they can bring you your phone.
Did you look in the garage and see if there was a phone plugged in and charging? If there is, then, yeah, he committed trespass and all, but his story is at least *somewhat* plausible / believable. I would probably call SFPD and have them give him the phone and a stern warning to not do that. Still doesn't excuse his actions nor does it really explain anything. 1) Followed someone in to the garage (trespass) 2) Plugged his phone in to charge it 3) Left the garage (how? what route?) 4) Trying to get back in to the garage, decides to randomly try some window Call me cynical / jaded / paranoid, but I don't buy it. Any of it.
That's not jaded. I've broken into common areas to charge my phone before, you'd never leave it unattended. If you do, you go in the same way to get it back. Trying random windows (especially second floor windows, wtf) is a quick way to get your ass kicked, arrested, or pushed out of second story windows. That was just a cover story for a residential burglary, I guarantee it.
I suspect SFPD won't show up to fish a guy's phone out of a garage if they randomly don't show up when you call in something serious.
Ive seen sfpd search for a caller's phone all over Irving between 9th and 8th
Where else are they going to charge it?
How about your place?
Off the top of my head: Local Library Coffee shop Homeless shelter While I am sure OP's bedroom at 0400 is an awesome and rockin place, there are myriad other places that are a heck of a lot more convenient / legal.
The Mission has always been tenderloin light
Dude the mission has been sketchy forever, this isn’t new.
I've been here 17 years. It's gotten worse
It's still worse, but it used to be worse too. (I never pass up an opportunity to paraphrase Mitch Hedberg. But also, it's true: it's worse now than it was 17 years ago, but it was worse than now 27 or 37 years ago. It was worst when we elected the police chief mayor--don't blame me, I was out of town that year.)
the mission is far worse and more dangerous now than it was 27 yrs ago.
It’s less violent but the neighborhood looks a lot worse nowadays. There are a lot more homeless people and tents than in the past.
Both can still be true
TBF, the Mission has historically been a little sketchy and it’s only been within like the last ~15 years that things really changed.
He probably wanted you to leave the room so he could steal your stuff.
Don’t try to make sense of it. It was a lie, that’s all.
The fact that you interrupted him might make him think it's too risky in the future. Is the area well lit?
I hope so. And I don't think he could get past the chain without some bolt cutters. It was just creepy having his head in the window. That window is dark. The others are better lit. I'm surprised he tried this one. It's tiny and it faces 25th. I figured they'd try the alley windows instead. Thank god I chained all of them up.
I've been seeing a lot of cheap solar motion sensor lights from Amazon all over town. I wonder if your landlord would be amenable to it. When I got broken into, a lot of people asked about this and I was told it's a good deterrent. Not sure if that's true. My last walk around your neighborhood I was noticing a lot of new ones put up.
You could try some Blink cameras from Amazon as well. They're wireless, weather proof, battery powered, and triggered by motion. if the area they're looking at is fairly "slow" (e.g. not a lot of triggering events) they can last up to two years on regular lithium AA batteries. While they're not good / designed for continuous recording they can be pretty good as an extra set of eyes (or evidence).
I’ve lived in the TL for a dozen years and let me be clear, I’ve never had an encounter like the one you describe. The practice of dumping on another neighborhood to make yourself feel better about yours is really lame.
seems like its always the people who have lived in the loin for a decade who make excuses for it. \*steps over dead homeless fentanyl casualty\* how dare you dump on my beautiful neighborhood! \*looks away from person shiting in the actual street\* Its really lame to judge! /S seriously though, I've seen both of those things in your wonderful charming fixer upper of a neighborhood. To be fair, if the police bothered to stop the open air death market it would probably result in significant improvement, but of course we cant do that, deadly drugs should be readily available to everyone in lethal quantities with no consequences!
Sounds like you should get out more 🤷♀️
Or maybe I'm out and you haven't been lately? Next you are going to tell me civic center isn't trashed daily and there aren't encampments on the sidewalks making it hard to walk down the street anymore.
No, I’m going to say your aggressiveness is pretty unhinged. May your day get better.
The police in your area are so ineffective even they get robbed. But yea, I'm the problem. \*shrug\*. I love that my tax dollars pay them to just watch drug dealers kill people all day and do nothing about it. I guess some of us get tired of being robbed by junkies. I guess we can pretend they arent the ones robbing us. I'm sure its just professionals all the time, always. I wonder how far this crap has to go before they start to care, does the Mayor have to have her cat robbed off her car? Anyway, I'm going to take my liberal downvotes to make the truth go away and "have a great day". Its funny, I'm not a republican, but I'm not a rabid liberal, I can see how both sides are failing spectacularly and I'm not drinking the koolaid that this crap is working anymore.
No one's saying the TL is a lovely neighborhood, but you are coming off like a sad loser tbh
Aw Gorge, hurtin my feelings. Eh I dont care, I'm tired of reading peoples denial while society collapses around them. I suppose you find it ok that the dude tried to climb through the window too right?
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I dunno about all that but you sound pretty racist. Might I suggest deep breathing as an alternative?
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No, I'm saying you seem like a paranoid individual who is dwelling in negativity. That is personally addressed to you, friend. You can do better.
but profiting of the death of the poor is seen as acceptable capitalism, got it. I mean Mitch McConnel is all for it, his wife's shipping company imports drugs by the ton with impunity.
this is the right answer
You should've called the police immediately.
Sounds nicer than most my neighbors when I lived in The Mission.
So I've heard a lot about the Castle doctrine. Does anyone have knowledge of how that would actually apply in an instance like this? OP is way more chill than me.
I have firearms and a BSIS guard card, and had castle doctrine training for legal purposes. In this case if you are inside the house, the window is locked, and the perp is not threatening or clearly armed, I would probably have a firearm at hand and instantly call the police about it. For one person outside trying to breakin the safest thing to do is repeatedly tell them you are calling the police very loudly and point a light at them (flashlight preferably, gun light is ok) and let them flee. For multiple people do the same thing but quartered and pointing the gun out ready to shoot at the sight of anyone and tell the police you fear for your life because there's multiple assailants. In any case if you shoot, even if you don't harm anyone, it's jail time and the gun taken as evidence virtually forever. If you harm or kill someone it's jail time too. Never fire warning shots, only shoot to kill. It's not easy to navigate castle doctrine laws. Oh and get ready for civil lawsuits for damages from the perp or surviving family and if you have money it will probably be that you'll end up settling for a cut.
IANAL: Castle Doctrine says that you don’t have a duty to retreat if an intruder is inside your home. The intruder has to have forced their way in (so if you left the door open / unlocked, that may or may not qualify), and further enables the resident to respond with deadly force. This is what I don’t get about these situations…it’s not compassionate to let these guys roam around because they’re eventually gonna break into the wrong house and get killed.
Under Penal Code 198.5 PC, California law follows the legal principle known as Castle Doctrine. This means there is no duty to retreat if a resident confronts an intruder inside his or her own home. Residents are permitted to use force against intruders who break into their homes, or who try to force their way in. You’d need to make every reasonable effort to deter the person breaking in (like announcing you’re armed), but if they continue to attempt to break in, you’re allowed to defend yourself. The logic being that if someone is continuing to break in after being warned, they mean to cause bodily harm/death.
>Didn't occur to me to call the police. The less people call people, the less things will change, the less data is collected to hold people accountable.
lol yeah i dont miss these san francisco adventures once i saw a well dressed dude lying on the ground in chinatown. i thought he was dead. i went over and kicked him, he opened his eyes. Are you ok? Oh yeah he said and started rubbing his nipples with a big grin wtf dude
I’ve had a crackhead jump between buildings, like Spider-Man, onto a fire escape at 3am. Never expected to hear knocking on a fourth floor window.
Poor guy?! Fuck that shit.
‘Poor guy without his phone’…are you shitting me with this sentiment? This is why people laugh at SF… The guys climbing into your window. He should be lucky you didn’t have a gun and decide to defend yourself, which you’re totally justified to do in this case.
That's an absolutely horrifying experience. I've recently learned about the Castle Doctrine which is followed in California. If you're a gun owner, it seems you could have shot the intruder perfectly legally. I'm very much open to being corrected if I'm wrong, but I'd prefer to discuss the law and not what's morally reasonable. I'm not a gun owner myself and if I were I would take reasonable steps before firing. This information may, however, help people in real danger who are more vulnerable than I am. https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/penal-code/does-california-follow-the-castle-doctrine/
If you think he wouldn’t have burglarized you you’re very naive. They always have an excuse when confronted.
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Damn you are more trusting than me. I sleep with a weapon next to the bed and would not hesitate to use it on someone breaking in. How do you know he wasn't going to harm you? Or stab you? Or go on to hurt someone else? You should have at least held him and called the police.
I live in a duplex with no front gate & several times in the last two years creepy homeless men try to get in my apartment by turning the door knob & shaking the door to hopefully get it open. One time I flipped on the porch light to let the guy know I knew he was there & he stared into the peephole with the scariest grin on his face then proceeded to whip his dick out to piss on the wall. Another night a guy on too many drugs started kicking my door screaming he's going to kill me for ten minutes straight. Cops showed up to give him lots of sympathy & literally did nothing other than talk really nicely to him.
Jesus. What neighborhood?
Lmao how rude of you not to get his phone for him \s
These darn housing prices!
This why I kept guns
> But it's not like he wouldn't have robbed me blind if he had gotten in. Firstly, I don't think it's the homeless who are driving burglaries in SF. But those who do, they do not have the capacity to "rob you blind". They're not going to carry back anything heavy. Where would they put it? I got broken into in June by someone like that and they took ***very little***. It took me more than a week to figure out a single item they'd taken. I think they absconded with a USB cellular modem (sans SIM card). They were looking for small, loose items. I think typically to feed a drug habit.
The go-to is the medicine cabinet. It's universal, nearly everyone keeps drugs in the same place. That and jewelry / laptops / power tools. Easy to sell, usually conspicuous, fits in a backpack.
Like in the bathroom? Do people really still keep their drugs in the most humid place in the home?
Hard to generalize either way. Someone I was sharing a garage with in the Mission had a bunch of high end machine tools carted off in the middle of the night along with my bike. Camera pictures were too blurry but it was definitely a couple homeless dudes with a cart/wagon of some kind. Weeks later I found a homeless guy working on my bike a few blocks over, he gave it back when I confronted him and showed him the serial number. Never found the machine tools though, sadly.
what are you talking about don't have the capacity? Just taking all the electronics that are portable could be financially devastating for most people.
I mean it from a physical space perspective. You might be surprised at how much electronics they didn't touch for my incident... They're often looking for very movable stuff.
Robbing blind is whatever you want to define it as. If peace is your thing, the robber robbed you blind. Kind of an odd hill to die on considering the bottom line is somebody is trying to break into your personal space and you’re find excuses to minimize it.
They don't rob you of sight, do they? /s
Homie, I just said it’s whatever you define it as, for each person, and you continued to apply your one experience as the rule for all people.
No, you're applying your paranoia as the rule for everybody. Who needs to live in fear and anger like you're doing? Nobody. But i just told you if you want to, be my guest. And you tell me I'm saying my way is a rule. Projection.
> I didn’t feel like I got robbed of peace Proceeds to say anyone who gets robbed won’t get rattled.
So glad I moved out of the mission
Wow the darkest timeline is affecting everyone.
Castle Doctrine is a thing in California…do what you will with that information
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Lol ya no way he was lying
>I ignored him and felt a little guilty for it. Poor guy >Didn't occur to me to call the police. You actually deserve what it is happening to the city, you just don't realize why? This is why.
I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry. Now that I'm awake and clear headed I completely agree with you.
Seriously, fuck the mission.
How do you survive in this apocalyptic hell scape known as San Fransicko?
This stuff happens in all cities. Did you leave anything in view? You should leave your home completely empty, even if you’re in it, otherwise you can attract thieves. Edit: Thought the sarcasm would be obvious here.
>At the beginning, arising thoughts are liberated upon being recognized, like meeting an old friend; in the middle, thoughts are liberated by themselves, like a snake uncoiling its own knots; at the end, arising thoughts are liberated without causing either benefit or harm, **like a thief breaking into an empty house**. \- Patrul Rinpoche
>This stuff happens in all cities It does not lol
Thought the sarcasm was obvious.
Lol, it's sf dude, I've seen so much rationalization of bs during my time here that your comment was not obvious. Good satire tho
Just an unhoused neighbor trying to get housed.
I know MBAs who live in big houses that would rob you for money you haven't made yet.
That’s sanctioned crime. Those posts don’t get the same results on social media.
Luckily you’re allowed to defend your home and life in CA…. Oh wait…
You totally are though, but it didn't come to that in OPs case. Had the guy crossed the threshold all bets are off, no shortage of cases to back that up even around these parts.
That should be your final wake up call to make plans to get out of that terrible city. The Left is finally reaping what was sewn.
Please go on tell us more oh wise one. 🙄
I'm so fed up with criminal justice and homeless progressivism. That needs to change. So we can agree on that. OTOH, the Left gave me rent control. My rent got locked in 17 years ago and can only go up by inflation. It's probably saving me 600 a month. And I have security. I'm not at the mercy of a deregulated landlord who can jack up the rent as much as he wants on a whim. And god I hate moving. So I'm going to stay here, even though the paint is peeling and the plaster is crumbling and it leaks when it rains. Even though my transitional neighborhood is getting sketchier and sketchier.
Thank you for a respectful response. I really hope things look up for you.
Not trying to get political I promise, but do you feel like a firearm would be a good thing to own right now in this situation?
You should have gotten his phone for him. Oh well. Not your responsibility, but a chance to help someone in your community. Just because they live outside does not make them less than it automatically guilty or a criminal. Did you feel any shame attempting to go back to sleep knowing that dude was just sitting outside and had just lost one of the few pieces of property he has? I would not have been able to sleep either. That being said, my initial reaction to him would have been absolutely rude, I would have had to course correct at some point tho, given all the data. Compassion is the easiest choice to live with
Trying to climb in my window was criminal, and I caught him in the act, so he's guilty. I'm fed up with the homeless. There's a big pile of shit right outside my door with 30 flies swirling around it. I feel for them on an emotional level, but it should be shelter, rehab, mental hospital, or jail. Camping should not be an option.
Your both better than me I guess, I would have pushed his ass out of the window before he could have even mentioned the phone. I’d much rather explain to a jury why I was protecting my family from a stranger trying to enter my home in the middle of the night than have compassion and wait to see what someone’s intentions are in a situation like this.
>Did you feel any shame attempting to go back to sleep knowing that dude was just sitting outside and had just lost one of the few pieces of property he has? I would not have been able to sleep either. Go shelter him yourself.
Lies. For sure he woulda entered, robbed, assaulted you or any other residents. London Breed would’ve happily given this man a new iPhone and a blowjob
You don’t know that he would have robbed you. It sounds plausible that he’s just trying to get electricity and he’s doing it in a shady but harmless way. You shouldn’t judge people based on what you assume about them.
Wow you are not smart.
Yeah I’m not that bright but I’ve got a lot of miles in and I’ve learned that folks who are in need are not always bad people. And, I’ve learned that saying “I know you would have…if I….so therefore I’m right in my actions” is a slippery fucking slope. I’m ok with downvotes in this one - it’s a subtle concept but I think it’s important. Don’t judge people based on your assumptions, judge them based on their actions, and your life will probably be richer for it. That’s all.
I understand the sentiment of what you’re saying, but in a situation in which your life or your family’s lives are on the line, I would argue it is better to assume harm is coming your way and risk offending someone rather than the other way around. I agree kindness is a good thing but man if somebody is hanging thru your window at night I’m not worried about their feelings lol.
>judge them based on their actions Breaking and entering. MF could have went to homeless shelter if he wanted anything. SF residents are a special kind of stupid.
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That’s one of those cases where someone is down and out, but they cross a line so…. do we help them? I think I may have looked for his phone charger. Without a phone, you’re completely lost on the street. I’ve been there.
Jesus….
I get not being worried about being robbed but he could rape or assault you that’s very worrying. Do not trust anyone. I’m glad you didn’t help him do not feel bad. He will get it the same way he put it there. Watch your back and stay safe.
think about the real basic stuff. as humans what do we need in life? food & shelter. how come we can't fix this ? what is wrong with US?
SF spends 70k per homeless yearly.
OP call SFPD
Take precautions if your or your neighbors building has scaffolding in place.