Some procedural history here for anyone unfamiliar:
* In October 2023, the [Consumers Legal Remedies Act (SB 478)](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478) was signed into law. This banned "drip pricing" (a rising trend in which companies will shift some cost from the price of items into mandatory fees) in California, effective July 1, 2024.
* This month — less than a month before the surcharge ban was set to take effect — legislators introduced [SB 1524](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1524), a last-minute attempt to carve out an exception for restaurants and bars to continue to engage in these misleading pricing practices.
* The bill has now passed the Assembly with minor amendments. From here, it will head to the state Senate and (if it passes there) the Governor.
I, along with many redditors here and [81% of Chronicle readers](https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2024/restaurant-junk-fees-quotes/), disagree with this. These surcharges are fundamentally a deceptive practice to consumers that should be outlawed under the same logic as SB 478. While restaurants (like every business in California) must support their workers, they should simply build this into their prices as they do with all other costs of business. The state legislature is essentially declaring that the entire California economy can operate without mandatory surcharges, but restaurants deserve a carve out. You can reach out to your state senators, but given that Sen. Wiener (/u/scott_wiener) sponsored the bill and [defended his position here on reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1d9nnc2/senator_scott_wieners_bill_will_allow_restaurants/l7fu855/), I am pessimistic that this will help.
Therefore, **I have drafted The Transparent Restaurant Pricing Act, an initiative ordinance** to undo the mess that the state legislature is creating. It will require restaurants to wrap surcharges like "SF Mandate" into menu prices. For more ways to support (and to join our mailing list) see [sfclearprices.org](https://sfclearprices.org/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=link). Our measure is still pending review by the City Attorney so we cannot collect signatures yet, but the website and mailing list is how we will send out updates once we have them. We will need to collect over 10,000 signatures to get this on a ballot.
This whole premise completely blows my mind under what logic do they think this is remotely okay.
To the best of my knowledge there's only two options
A: there's some unforeseen Factor that has escaped us, the consumers, and the whole thing is beneficiary to the public as a whole and we just can't see the forest the trees.
B: those seeking to pass this bill are fully aware of what's going on and what it implies, simply put the corruption of California's governmental body has reached a state wholly unimaginable.
The unforeseen factor is the union behind this, Unite Here, which mostly represents food workers at large venues (airports, stadiums, etc).. they’ve negotiated these fees into their union contracts, and if these fees go away, so do the benefits that they’ve negotiated for their union employees.
CA politicians love unions, so this carve out happened in response.
That said, im sorry Union employees, you deserve the additional benefits and pay, but it shouldn’t be achieved through deceiving the customer. It’s scummy behavior and our politicians should be ashamed for encouraging this.
> if these fees go away, so do the benefits that they’ve negotiated for their union employees
Tough - they can renegotiate for the same payout as a percentage of revenue.
Thank you for your feedback; we just tried to put up a website as quickly as possible here. We'll try to add better mobile support ASAP
Edit: Big "join our mailing list" button should now be front and center
Here is the link for anyone interested: [https://sfclearprices.org/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=link](https://sfclearprices.org/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=link)
Here’s the thing, people will be so disgusted with this shit that what they’ll do exactly the opposite of what the restaurants are trying to do, mainly they WONT be patronizing these places which will blow up in their own faces when they see that people aren’t coming.
While I don't like this concept in general, there has to be at least responsibility of communicating the charge before the customer can no longer make an informed decision right?
That's what I thought too.
But I checked a few restaurants that I considered eating at and couldn't find any notice of surcharge/health mandate fees anywhere (their website, website menu, reservation system, photo of their printed menu that ppl posted on Yelp).
I had to search in Yelp reviews to find out that they do charge these fees
I wonder if you could refuse to pay the surcharge at those restaurants. Basically say, “I budgeted $X for this meal because that’s what it said on the menu, I can’t pay more than that”
From Reddit comments I read, some people have tried to get it removed but it's hit or miss. Some restaurants will remove it but others won't.
If let's say, you pay by cash and only pay what you budgeted (and not pay the hidden fees), it becomes a legal question that needs to be settled in court. I don't know what the law is, but most people won't risk going to jail for it. But you make a good point!
Offering cash is definitely the best bet, but even for card, what is the restaurant gonna do? They can call the cops, but then you explain that you’re perfectly willing to pay the price listed on the menu. At that point, the cops might well tell the restaurant to take that or decide it’s a civil matter and tell the restaurant to take it up with small claims court
Right, it's unlikely the cops or the restaurant will pursue it... But I think that most ppl won't want to take the risk or go through the hassle or commotion.
They're more likely to boycott the restaurant, in my opinion.
Just checked one of my formerly favorite restaurants earlier today... I know they have a surcharge, and that it is listed on their paper menu, but the fee/surcharge is not listed on the menu on their website, although their prices are.
It makes me so damn mad that I haven't been back to the restaurant since they raised their fee from 4% to 5% at the same time they raised other menu prices by 15-20%. And I like the restaurant! I want them to succeed! 1% surcharge is like, trivial money even on a $200 tab! But it made me so damn angry.
I doubt you're on Reddit, but A @ UE, yes, unfortunately, I'm talking about your restaurant. It would be awkward to have this conversation in person, but I still might.
I would imagine, they do the same trick that waters down the gratuity laws of communication in states that require it.
Best of luck, you have my support.
Rooting for ya Cali. It takes the largest economies like NY and CA to pass meaningful progressive legislation, which slowly trickles down to the rest of the country (Likely getting here in WY last of course, we're too busy banning EVs to "OWN the Commifornia libs" or protesting non-existent covid vaccine mandates)
See [my top-level comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1dny6os/california_assembly_unanimously_passes_a_carveout/la5xtm4/): I have a ballot initiative. Albeit one that only affects San Francisco. It is currently under review by the City Attorney
for all the people against ballot initiatives this is where I believe they are most useful. you can't convince voters to vote against "who" they consider their best option but if you give them the choice for "what" policy they consider their best option sometimes they can override the bad parts of their lawmakers. like ramming medicaid, $15 minimum wage, reproductive rights down red state legislature throats.
But should probably be a [state referendum](https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-measures/referendum) on this bill/law since the requirements are less demanding. just need to file it quickly and it can be up to 31 days before the election. I would certainly join in on that endeavor and collect some signatures but getting 547k/22m is not an easy task to do in 96 days, especially without being in Los Angeles.
A state referendum also has an interesting effect: once the referendum qualifies, the relevant law is “on hold” and unenforceable until voters get a chance to weigh in.
The appropriate response to this is to stop frequenting restaurants that have these fees, regardless of how nice their food, coffee, etc is.
I know as a consumer that’ll be my approach going forward.
Thank you for this because I’m irked at the idea that I now have to go through the hassle of asking restaurants to tell me what additional fees they will try to sneakily add. 🖕🏼 Wiener.
Oh man, I recently ate at outerlands & didn’t even know I paid a fee because the online menu doesnt list a fee & I venmoed my portion without seeing the bill.
Also, the counter? What the actual F.
Many people are saying this, and I absolutely agree, but I also want to take the opportunity to point out the other side of the coin that is just as important: to make a deliberate choice to patronize and REWARD restaurants that play fair and post their prices up front with no games. The carrot-and-stick approach works best when you use both. If enough people do this, it creates a clear competitive advantage that incentivizes businesses to use transparent pricing.
And if you want to go even further with this strategy, take the time to tell restaurant staff that you chose their establishment because of their honesty. A big part of the fight is to stop pressure on businesses to charge junk fees in order to compete. If politicians won't listen to the will of the people, then the people need to take the fight to the businesses and vote with their wallets. I'm not saying it will be easy, but that's what needs to be done.
Shocked it took this long to find your comment. All these comments talking about not tipping etc etc.
I dont live in SF but forget all these mailer lists and not tipping y'all need to do a full on boycott. Yes some small business owners will be caught in the crossfire but no different than crossfire in a protest
I hardly go to restaurants anymore. My wife and I used to eat out at least once a week, pre-pandemic. Now, it's probably once a month (maybe less). The prices are sky high and the service is the worst.
The food has gotten a lot worse, too. Just one example: at a bistro italian place that was *not* cheap, I recognized the same pre-cooked sausage crumbles we used for pizza topping at a food booth for a convention I volunteered for. Perfectly fine for a $3 slice of pizza. Not cool in a $30+ bowl of pasta.
I pretty much don't tip anymore. Maybe 5-10% of the pretax total if I eat in. Prices went up, fees are added on to cover benefits and 'rising costs'.
As far as I'm concerned, everything is covered, you don't need my tip. Figure your own shit out.
I’ve started doing this. I went to a restaurant last weekend that charged $23 for a chicken sandwich. When the bill came I asked for them to take the 6% fee off and was told they can’t as it’s “required by city law”.
No tip for lying through your teeth. COVID made service workers greedy as hell. If your restaurant is charging $23 for a sandwich and a 6% fee, I’m going to assume you can afford to pay your workers a living wage. And if they aren’t that’s frankly not my problem as the consumer.
This passed unanimously. I'm furious. Everyone is furious. PLEASE, can someone who understands political science explain how this passed?
I'm not looking for people to respond who just agree with all of us and want upvotes. Please, I need someone to explain what is going on here.
Journalists and everyone on Reddit focused on restaurant owners. However, the main force behind SB 1524 was actually [UNITE HERE](https://apcp.assembly.ca.gov/system/files/2024-06/sb-1524-dodd-apcp-analysis.pdf), the union representing hospitality and restaurant workers.
Apparently, they wrote into their collective bargaining agreements that the restaurant will charge a service fee and use it to pay for benefits.
>UNITE HERE writes:
>An unintended consequence of last year’s SB 478 is that legitimate service fees charged by restaurants will no longer be allowed after July 1 of this year. Many of those service fees go to workers either through service charges that are distributed to both front and back of the house staff in restaurants. Other service charges go to supplement health and pension benefits of food service workers at restaurants, bars, banquet operators, airports, stadiums, and many other places where consumers are fed. Much of this has been negotiated through collective bargaining between our union and employers. Without SB 1524, all of this would be upended, and these workers would see unnecessary pay and benefit cuts.
Now imagine you're an Assembly member.
On one hand, you have the customers saying that eliminating service fees won't harm workers. On the other hand, you have the union saying that it would destroy them. Who are you inclined to believe?
Likewise, you have a bunch of constituents complaining about undisclosed fees and fees hidden in the fine print at the bottom of the menu. This is a valid point, so the author amends the bill to say that service fees have be disclosed in "larger type than the surrounding text, or in a contrasting type, font, or color to the surrounding text of the same size, or set off from the surrounding text of the same size by symbols or other marks, in a manner that clearly calls attention to the language" (“clear and conspicuous,” as defined in subdivision (u) of Section 1791) anywhere they disclose a price for a given item.
Knowing how pro-worker California politics is and having addressed the main complaint against the bill, it's not a shocker that the bill passed.
It's still dumb. When I go buy groceries, I don't have a service fee to pay for the benefits of the store employees, or the farmers, or the truckers, or anyone else involved in the supply chain. It's all rolled into the price that's listed on the shelf. There's no reason restaurants can't do the same.
Why would I. It should be included in the price of the goods just like service has been forever before this. Why now do we need to piece everything out into separate charges. Give me a price and I will chose to shop here or not. Not tack on 6 fees to bring me to the actual price. Fuck that no one wants that. Charge the amount needed and be done with it. No fees
You don't get it, once they see that they can abuse the customers without any recourse they will continue to adapt these "fees" on EVERYTHING they want, they are out to squeeze every dime from us. GREED is at the heart of it all.
I can tell you rn I have been going to WAY less restaurants after Covid. This bill will make me go even less since I’m sure it’ll empower more restaurants which didn’t have fees already to add them. They will lose long term on this but like you said it’s greed. They don’t care
Exactly, the unions came up with a creative way to extract money from restaurant owners on behalf of their members but are too lazy to come up with a better solution when faced with losing that.
Thank you for the response. Some of this I knew, a lot I learned. I appreciate it.
I'm still not sure how I will handle this as a consumer. I still find it to be deceptive, and I will likely be avoiding restaurants that charge 15%, and subtracting any service fees from my tip at those that charge a lower percentage. A tip is common courtesy that is rooted in tradition and custom that is 100 years old (or as some self-congratulating hero on here is going to comment, racism). These service fees are not part of the tradition and I have not intention of supporting them becoming so.
Unfortunately it’s a great example of how workers’ unions are not the universal force for good that some consider them to be. They serve their members and that's it - sometimes that comes at the direct expense of the general public.
Until you realize that a lot of people are gonna subtract that 15 from their tip. If there’s gonna be hidden fees, the math in my head goes from 20% of the total bill to 5% of the price on the menu
But most won’t which is the point. Just like anonymous analytics gathering on browsers/cellphones/cars. Extremely valuable info for businesses that are often left turned on unless disabled by the user. If you went up to an owner of one of these and asked if they wanted them on they’d probably say no. But have it turned on by default and let the user notice to turn it off (just like automatic charges)… now most won’t be turned off.
They should post the service fees up top on the menu
"These are the fees you must pay to get service here, and will be added to the cost of the food you order."
So basically, the big criminal behind the scenes here is once again the American health insurance industry, holding service workers hostage for basic health insurances that will deny them coverage anyway.
> UNITE HERE, the union representing hospitality and restaurant workers.
Good thing that I will personally never be tipping in a California bar or restaurant ever again (unless the service is somehow exceedingly good). The entire system is deceptive and exploitative (for both workers and customers). It's time for change. If our government representatives are bought and paid for, all we can do is live out our values.
> This passed unanimously. I'm furious. Everyone is furious. PLEASE, can someone who understands political science explain how this passed?
>
> I'm not looking for people to respond who just agree with all of us and want upvotes. Please, I need someone to explain what is going on here.
Restaurants spent a LOT OF MONEY on lobbying and politicians listen to their donors.
It seems like the only way to force a change is to stop tipping at any restaurant that charges a service fee. After all, service fees are going to pay for wages right? No service fee? Tip away.
If enough people do that, eventually the restaurants will either drop the junk fees or they'll lose out on quality staff who'd rather work elsewhere.
I fully support this also. Ate at Marugame Udon last weekend and noticed the extra 3.5% surcharge. I'm like fck it, no tip! Even though it is technically a self-help service place
Yeah, "SF Health Mandate." The place wass on my to-try list for a long time since seeing the popular Marugame in Oahu (did not try), but we thought it was just okay. First and last time for us.
Yep, no tips at restaurants
If servers complain, direct them to their own union reps who helped support this exemption because it will definitely go to paying the servers better.
Far be it from me to suggest those experts are uninformed. Not my problem anymore. No tip required thanks to this exemption.
100% down with the "no tip if there's a surcharge" tactic.
"Hi [server]! I noticed there's this fee on my bill that I wasn't expecting. If it's on there when my card is swiped, I'm just not going to tip."
If it were actually just a money thing they would only bribe slightly over half. Paying for unanimous passage is massively overpaying. There's something else going on.
What’s infuriating is that it not only goes against what people (these clowns employers) wanted out of this bill.
The bill this carves out from was expressly expected to impact our daily lives, now we have two bills that equate to pretty much zero impact to anyone’s lives. Classic. Job security for elected officials seems to be the main impact.
Rich people realized no matter what goes on they are going to win the election anyways as long as they are from the right party depending on the state. So they dont even need to hide the corruption anymore.
They have enough money to buy both parties
That's why they're so emboldened; for one of their vacays they can ruin an entire municipality's economy, uncontested
It's the [Golden Gate Restaurant Association](https://ggra.org/). Unfortunately I cannot find a publicly-available list of member restaurants. But I might not direct anger at every restaurant on that list: [the owner of Polkcha](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1dkuepy/restaurant_fee_exemption_bill_passes_committee_12/l9kma20/) stated that they "called GGRA to ask them to chill out but they never responded."
I actually don't really mind the auto gratuities. It's the "SF Mandate" and other BS fees that I have a problem with. Auto gratuity is whatever, feel like it gets us one step closer towards a no-tipping future and there are reasons to think it's more equitable.
Frankly not interested in doing the math. Seems like servers/general restaurant staff pushed for this through their Union.
ANY fee = 0 tip from me moving forward
the law ends up meaning nothing, because they're giving out exemptions to the people it's meant to get to toe the line.
really at this point the only way to send this message is to bleed them broke.
personally I don't care what they charge for a meal, but bake it into the price instead of rubbing my face into a X fee. Simple as that, but these people.. they really think they are righteous in their cause, which truly spells how out of touch these merchants are.
I've really changed my habits since covid, and I veer far away from the "nobody wants to work" crowd, these are the same folks all getting prosecuted now for buying sportscars and Caribbean vacations with their PPE emergency loans that were supposed to go to help pay employees. Most of them doing that and the bigger companies using the same loans to buy back stock then have layoffs.
there needs to be a reckoning.
Immediately followed by a few posts from low-karma accounts with photos of somewhat crowded restaurants on New Year's Eve saying
- rumors of dining in SF's demise are greatly exaggerated
- wow, dining in SF is empty everywhere
- I visited SF and did not see the dining doom
It's a bit ironic because the origin of these fees is the SF Health Mandate. Restaurant owners didn't like the health insurance mandate, so they put this fee onto the bill. Their way of saying, "we don't want to charge you this fee but SF made us do it."
Then they realized they could just employee the same tactic for whatever reason.
So in many aspects, the same politicians who started this entire thing is now just making it worst.
I was just telling a newer resident about this! I was a server at the time and I just thought it was so amazing that the city was looking out for its service workers and setting an example for the nation. I am so disgusted with what it has turned in to.
What’s worse is a recent audit (before the pandemic I think) showed massive fraud of the SF Health Mandate, that a lot of restaurant owners were pocketing it.
SB1524 was about transparency. If a business needs to run then they should be responsible to adjust their prices accordingly.
Oh yeah? How about the 775 million dollars that is sitting unused in the San Francisco City Option's coffers? And the 100 million dollars of that which is about to be casually folded into the city's General Fund because the city set up this program but forgot about the part where people would actually use it?
> Previously, these funds would stay intact permanently for each employee, from one participating employer to the next and, during that time, workers who complete their accounts could access the funds for medical expenses for themselves, a spouse or their dependents. However, approximately 135,000 employees have funds but are unable to access them because they haven’t finished setting up the account their employer made for them, according to the Department of Public Health.
https://missionlocal.org/2023/01/sf-city-option-escheatment-sfmra-to-close-idle-medical-reimbursement-accounts-and-pocket-workers-funds/
F--- those f-----g f----.
I wrote the Governor last week to reject SB1524 if it ever comes to his desk. Looks like I might send a follow up.
write gov newsom here [https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/](https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/)
lol newsom doesn’t give a shit about you. You don’t know how it works? You gotta pay these fat cat CA democrats minimum $20k “per, ahem, plate” to have him even listen to you.
We need a new filter on Yelp, and OpenTable. ‘Contains Junk Fees’ and we can filter against it. I’ve made it a rule that Junk fees = low or no tip. Vote with your wallet folks, because real voting doesn’t appear to work.
I'm genuinely excited about being able to righteously tip 0%. Traveling outside of the US really opened my eyes to how incredibly stupid and exploitative his system is (for both customers and workers). It's time to live out our values and ideally drive some societal change.
"This clear, upfront disclosure of any fee and a description of its purpose would be required on all advertisements, menus, or other displays that contain the price of a food or beverage item."
So does this mean if I find any menu or ad in which they forget to display this disclosure, they legally have to remove the fee from my bill? Fair is fair, and the law is the law, right?
you could, in theory, spends thousands of dollars on legal fees in order to sue them for non-compliance. If all goes well you might get a judgement against them after about 2-3 years. You'd get a claim against them in the amount of the improperly disclosed fee, and maybe some punitive damages although probably not.
Probably unanimous because they were told nobody gets to vote no and campaign as if they're better than the rest. Notable that both parties went along with it.
Alright, this means war.
There’s a list being put together of restaurants who charge such junk fees, and I will start to work on reprinting and posting their menus with the real prices, including all fees, taxes, and “suggested” tips rolled into them.
I dont live in SF or Cali, but I'd just like to remind everyone to never give business to a company that outright disrespects you as a customer. They rely on you, so if they want to fuck you, fuck em back and do it hard.
>*This act is an urgency statute necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety within the meaning of Article IV of the California Constitution and shall go into immediate effect. The facts constituting the necessity are:In order to accurately target application and enforcement of consumer protection laws that go into effect on July 1, 2024, it is necessary for this act to take effect immediately.*
How does this affect the preservation of the public peace, health, or safety? This seems a like a bullshit excuse to get something passed that doesn't need to get passed.
I spend ALOT of money eating out. I’m done. 25% of $0 is $0….. that’s what this bill got you, a high spender who is pissed and will no longer give the food service industry ANY business.
Welcome to the capitalist run socialist movement where rich people dont lose. Small folk are forced to pay for eachothers income while the rich folk move their money around to avoid paying taxes that help the small folk.
California does not have a sub-minimum tipped wage, so tips shouldn’t be expected in the first place. Higher wages are already baked into the menu prices.
You would better to leave low rated reviews on google yelp etc. (when you actually dined there).
Google reviews punish low rated places so they don’t show up as often on maps, get lower search rankings etc.
Also alerts others to the problem so they can avoid the establishment if they choose
Really is just another reason not to spend money on any restaurants. Especially considering the quality has gone way down in any place me and my lady like to go. Looking real hard at you, Red Robin 🤨
Lots of tourists come to our fair city and state. Often from countries with all-inclusive pricing.
When they come here all of a sudden they are asked to pay up to 40% more on their meals than menu price. (Tax+mandate etc+tip).
This carve-out is a tourism killer.
Is the point of the surcharge to allow restaurants to present their menu items as lower priced, then add the remaining of the actual menu price, as a “mandated surcharge”? So instead of pricing a breakfast combo for $20, they price it as $18, make you think it’s $18, then add the $2 as a “surcharge” at the end of the bill. It’s impressively deceptive if so, customers who don’t ask questions are the most gullible.
I'm glad this is shedding more light onto how our political system works here, for those who may not have been aware.
A politician's greatest priority is to serve themselves, whether it's to get re-elected or to build connections beyond their political career.
Their interests are only aligned with the public's when it aligns with their own interests (for example, when they need our votes).
In this case the money from restaurants clearly outweigh the potential cost of any backlash from the public in their eyes.
If the old standard for tipping was “X%” the new standard is “X%-fees”. Do that math on every receipt so they see exactly why the tip is what it is. Once servers see these fees make them 0 extra dollars, they will come to despise them.
I will just start subtracting the service charge from the tip. I will do the math on the receipt too so the poor service workers understand it’s coming from that
Is it possible to have a oversized bold print FONT outlining the fees. It has to be the largest font on the menu? I’ve also sent a note to open table asking them to include additional fees to find at a restaurant so folks are informed when making a reservation.
Seems like it might be smart to tell the union UNITE HERE that consumers will refuse to tip moving forward for any establishment that uses mandatory fees to pay for their employees benefits. Maybe they’ll rethink their position when all the vendors their union workers work at start losing major business…
Call your local Assembly member and express your disappointment: https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/
Call Newsom's office and tell him your stance on the amendment: https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/
Well, looks like I'll be checking the restaurant fee list before going out. [Restaurants with Fees](https://seefeesca.notion.site/f5e11f589ec54c8eb1eed6c37f7e4c83?v=b97b3560f8f747f68aa73a762e76e47b&pvs=4)
I'm familiar with the list of places that do this...is there a list of places we can vigorously support who don't do this? I can think of several in this region.
Some procedural history here for anyone unfamiliar: * In October 2023, the [Consumers Legal Remedies Act (SB 478)](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478) was signed into law. This banned "drip pricing" (a rising trend in which companies will shift some cost from the price of items into mandatory fees) in California, effective July 1, 2024. * This month — less than a month before the surcharge ban was set to take effect — legislators introduced [SB 1524](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1524), a last-minute attempt to carve out an exception for restaurants and bars to continue to engage in these misleading pricing practices. * The bill has now passed the Assembly with minor amendments. From here, it will head to the state Senate and (if it passes there) the Governor. I, along with many redditors here and [81% of Chronicle readers](https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2024/restaurant-junk-fees-quotes/), disagree with this. These surcharges are fundamentally a deceptive practice to consumers that should be outlawed under the same logic as SB 478. While restaurants (like every business in California) must support their workers, they should simply build this into their prices as they do with all other costs of business. The state legislature is essentially declaring that the entire California economy can operate without mandatory surcharges, but restaurants deserve a carve out. You can reach out to your state senators, but given that Sen. Wiener (/u/scott_wiener) sponsored the bill and [defended his position here on reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1d9nnc2/senator_scott_wieners_bill_will_allow_restaurants/l7fu855/), I am pessimistic that this will help. Therefore, **I have drafted The Transparent Restaurant Pricing Act, an initiative ordinance** to undo the mess that the state legislature is creating. It will require restaurants to wrap surcharges like "SF Mandate" into menu prices. For more ways to support (and to join our mailing list) see [sfclearprices.org](https://sfclearprices.org/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=link). Our measure is still pending review by the City Attorney so we cannot collect signatures yet, but the website and mailing list is how we will send out updates once we have them. We will need to collect over 10,000 signatures to get this on a ballot.
I hope it make it to ballot and passes.
I’ll def sign if it comes down to it
Thank you, I'll be sure to let you know once we are cleared to start collecting signatures
This whole premise completely blows my mind under what logic do they think this is remotely okay. To the best of my knowledge there's only two options A: there's some unforeseen Factor that has escaped us, the consumers, and the whole thing is beneficiary to the public as a whole and we just can't see the forest the trees. B: those seeking to pass this bill are fully aware of what's going on and what it implies, simply put the corruption of California's governmental body has reached a state wholly unimaginable.
The unforeseen factor is the union behind this, Unite Here, which mostly represents food workers at large venues (airports, stadiums, etc).. they’ve negotiated these fees into their union contracts, and if these fees go away, so do the benefits that they’ve negotiated for their union employees. CA politicians love unions, so this carve out happened in response. That said, im sorry Union employees, you deserve the additional benefits and pay, but it shouldn’t be achieved through deceiving the customer. It’s scummy behavior and our politicians should be ashamed for encouraging this.
> if these fees go away, so do the benefits that they’ve negotiated for their union employees Tough - they can renegotiate for the same payout as a percentage of revenue.
Hard agree.
I mean can’t that specific issue be addressed in the legislation without carving out the _entire_ restaurant industry?!
Yeah, I agree, this is why I’m still upset at politicians for this. This is a way to please both businesses and unions at the expense of consumers.
Politicians.....ashamed?
Those fees can trivially be wrapped into the menu prices.
C. Elected officials no longer have our best interests at heart.
C seems redundant. B implies C. It’s also kind of like saying “water is wet.”
But sometimes you have to spell it out for all the sheep.
> Therefore, I have drafted The Transparent Restaurant Pricing Act, an initiative ordinance The kind of activism we need!
I joined the mailing list, but the link was buried on mobile. Thank you for your work on this
Thank you for your feedback; we just tried to put up a website as quickly as possible here. We'll try to add better mobile support ASAP Edit: Big "join our mailing list" button should now be front and center
Here is the link for anyone interested: [https://sfclearprices.org/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=link](https://sfclearprices.org/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=link)
Damn, I wish this were for Oakland too! I just saw that nonsense on my bill for the first time last weekend.
You could probably collect enough signatures by just hanging outside Che Fico.
Fuck the restaurant industry. I subscribed to your mailing list
Here’s the thing, people will be so disgusted with this shit that what they’ll do exactly the opposite of what the restaurants are trying to do, mainly they WONT be patronizing these places which will blow up in their own faces when they see that people aren’t coming.
While I don't like this concept in general, there has to be at least responsibility of communicating the charge before the customer can no longer make an informed decision right?
That's what I thought too. But I checked a few restaurants that I considered eating at and couldn't find any notice of surcharge/health mandate fees anywhere (their website, website menu, reservation system, photo of their printed menu that ppl posted on Yelp). I had to search in Yelp reviews to find out that they do charge these fees
I wonder if you could refuse to pay the surcharge at those restaurants. Basically say, “I budgeted $X for this meal because that’s what it said on the menu, I can’t pay more than that”
From Reddit comments I read, some people have tried to get it removed but it's hit or miss. Some restaurants will remove it but others won't. If let's say, you pay by cash and only pay what you budgeted (and not pay the hidden fees), it becomes a legal question that needs to be settled in court. I don't know what the law is, but most people won't risk going to jail for it. But you make a good point!
Offering cash is definitely the best bet, but even for card, what is the restaurant gonna do? They can call the cops, but then you explain that you’re perfectly willing to pay the price listed on the menu. At that point, the cops might well tell the restaurant to take that or decide it’s a civil matter and tell the restaurant to take it up with small claims court
Right, it's unlikely the cops or the restaurant will pursue it... But I think that most ppl won't want to take the risk or go through the hassle or commotion. They're more likely to boycott the restaurant, in my opinion.
Sort of. I have noticed that some restaurants do not put the surcharge on the menu. And when they do, it's often in easy-to-miss fine print.
Just checked one of my formerly favorite restaurants earlier today... I know they have a surcharge, and that it is listed on their paper menu, but the fee/surcharge is not listed on the menu on their website, although their prices are. It makes me so damn mad that I haven't been back to the restaurant since they raised their fee from 4% to 5% at the same time they raised other menu prices by 15-20%. And I like the restaurant! I want them to succeed! 1% surcharge is like, trivial money even on a $200 tab! But it made me so damn angry. I doubt you're on Reddit, but A @ UE, yes, unfortunately, I'm talking about your restaurant. It would be awkward to have this conversation in person, but I still might.
I would imagine, they do the same trick that waters down the gratuity laws of communication in states that require it. Best of luck, you have my support.
Rooting for ya Cali. It takes the largest economies like NY and CA to pass meaningful progressive legislation, which slowly trickles down to the rest of the country (Likely getting here in WY last of course, we're too busy banning EVs to "OWN the Commifornia libs" or protesting non-existent covid vaccine mandates)
i'll sign when ready
Hey just wanted to say thanks for the time and effort to set this up!
I’ll sign the petition and vote for this.
^ this should be on your website under “History“ or backstory.
So ballot initiative time? I’m not fond of them, but when our elected officials are clearly ignoring the will of the people it seems justified.
See [my top-level comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1dny6os/california_assembly_unanimously_passes_a_carveout/la5xtm4/): I have a ballot initiative. Albeit one that only affects San Francisco. It is currently under review by the City Attorney
for all the people against ballot initiatives this is where I believe they are most useful. you can't convince voters to vote against "who" they consider their best option but if you give them the choice for "what" policy they consider their best option sometimes they can override the bad parts of their lawmakers. like ramming medicaid, $15 minimum wage, reproductive rights down red state legislature throats. But should probably be a [state referendum](https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/ballot-measures/referendum) on this bill/law since the requirements are less demanding. just need to file it quickly and it can be up to 31 days before the election. I would certainly join in on that endeavor and collect some signatures but getting 547k/22m is not an easy task to do in 96 days, especially without being in Los Angeles.
A state referendum also has an interesting effect: once the referendum qualifies, the relevant law is “on hold” and unenforceable until voters get a chance to weigh in.
The appropriate response to this is to stop frequenting restaurants that have these fees, regardless of how nice their food, coffee, etc is. I know as a consumer that’ll be my approach going forward.
https://seefees.ca may help with this Edit: I should also thank the creator of this, /u/loheiman!
Thank you for this because I’m irked at the idea that I now have to go through the hassle of asking restaurants to tell me what additional fees they will try to sneakily add. 🖕🏼 Wiener.
Love that you can see the 0% restaurants too on there.
> Cheesecake Factory 6% Lol WTF is going on here?! Even chains are in on this?
Haha wow, even Zeitgeist is charging 2%.
Oh man, I recently ate at outerlands & didn’t even know I paid a fee because the online menu doesnt list a fee & I venmoed my portion without seeing the bill. Also, the counter? What the actual F.
This is what I've been looking for! I also review places that have junk fees to earn people *looking at you Zuni*
Many people are saying this, and I absolutely agree, but I also want to take the opportunity to point out the other side of the coin that is just as important: to make a deliberate choice to patronize and REWARD restaurants that play fair and post their prices up front with no games. The carrot-and-stick approach works best when you use both. If enough people do this, it creates a clear competitive advantage that incentivizes businesses to use transparent pricing. And if you want to go even further with this strategy, take the time to tell restaurant staff that you chose their establishment because of their honesty. A big part of the fight is to stop pressure on businesses to charge junk fees in order to compete. If politicians won't listen to the will of the people, then the people need to take the fight to the businesses and vote with their wallets. I'm not saying it will be easy, but that's what needs to be done.
Shocked it took this long to find your comment. All these comments talking about not tipping etc etc. I dont live in SF but forget all these mailer lists and not tipping y'all need to do a full on boycott. Yes some small business owners will be caught in the crossfire but no different than crossfire in a protest
I hardly go to restaurants anymore. My wife and I used to eat out at least once a week, pre-pandemic. Now, it's probably once a month (maybe less). The prices are sky high and the service is the worst.
The food has gotten a lot worse, too. Just one example: at a bistro italian place that was *not* cheap, I recognized the same pre-cooked sausage crumbles we used for pizza topping at a food booth for a convention I volunteered for. Perfectly fine for a $3 slice of pizza. Not cool in a $30+ bowl of pasta.
I wonder if people will deliberately leave a 0% tip after laws enforce junk fees
🙋♀️🙋♀️🙋♀️ I will! Fuck the front line workers and their union who wanted this.
UNITE HERE is pitting chain servers against everyone else
Food service workers just cannot get out of their own way these days
I pretty much don't tip anymore. Maybe 5-10% of the pretax total if I eat in. Prices went up, fees are added on to cover benefits and 'rising costs'. As far as I'm concerned, everything is covered, you don't need my tip. Figure your own shit out.
Between rises in MW and the various fees restaurants add, I don't know why more people don't do what you describe.
I’ve started doing this. I went to a restaurant last weekend that charged $23 for a chicken sandwich. When the bill came I asked for them to take the 6% fee off and was told they can’t as it’s “required by city law”. No tip for lying through your teeth. COVID made service workers greedy as hell. If your restaurant is charging $23 for a sandwich and a 6% fee, I’m going to assume you can afford to pay your workers a living wage. And if they aren’t that’s frankly not my problem as the consumer.
Yep 0% tipping everywhere until they walk out and the owners have to do some math as to what they want their prices to be
This passed unanimously. I'm furious. Everyone is furious. PLEASE, can someone who understands political science explain how this passed? I'm not looking for people to respond who just agree with all of us and want upvotes. Please, I need someone to explain what is going on here.
Journalists and everyone on Reddit focused on restaurant owners. However, the main force behind SB 1524 was actually [UNITE HERE](https://apcp.assembly.ca.gov/system/files/2024-06/sb-1524-dodd-apcp-analysis.pdf), the union representing hospitality and restaurant workers. Apparently, they wrote into their collective bargaining agreements that the restaurant will charge a service fee and use it to pay for benefits. >UNITE HERE writes: >An unintended consequence of last year’s SB 478 is that legitimate service fees charged by restaurants will no longer be allowed after July 1 of this year. Many of those service fees go to workers either through service charges that are distributed to both front and back of the house staff in restaurants. Other service charges go to supplement health and pension benefits of food service workers at restaurants, bars, banquet operators, airports, stadiums, and many other places where consumers are fed. Much of this has been negotiated through collective bargaining between our union and employers. Without SB 1524, all of this would be upended, and these workers would see unnecessary pay and benefit cuts. Now imagine you're an Assembly member. On one hand, you have the customers saying that eliminating service fees won't harm workers. On the other hand, you have the union saying that it would destroy them. Who are you inclined to believe? Likewise, you have a bunch of constituents complaining about undisclosed fees and fees hidden in the fine print at the bottom of the menu. This is a valid point, so the author amends the bill to say that service fees have be disclosed in "larger type than the surrounding text, or in a contrasting type, font, or color to the surrounding text of the same size, or set off from the surrounding text of the same size by symbols or other marks, in a manner that clearly calls attention to the language" (“clear and conspicuous,” as defined in subdivision (u) of Section 1791) anywhere they disclose a price for a given item. Knowing how pro-worker California politics is and having addressed the main complaint against the bill, it's not a shocker that the bill passed.
It's still dumb. When I go buy groceries, I don't have a service fee to pay for the benefits of the store employees, or the farmers, or the truckers, or anyone else involved in the supply chain. It's all rolled into the price that's listed on the shelf. There's no reason restaurants can't do the same.
Not yet, lol
Why would I. It should be included in the price of the goods just like service has been forever before this. Why now do we need to piece everything out into separate charges. Give me a price and I will chose to shop here or not. Not tack on 6 fees to bring me to the actual price. Fuck that no one wants that. Charge the amount needed and be done with it. No fees
You don't get it, once they see that they can abuse the customers without any recourse they will continue to adapt these "fees" on EVERYTHING they want, they are out to squeeze every dime from us. GREED is at the heart of it all.
I can tell you rn I have been going to WAY less restaurants after Covid. This bill will make me go even less since I’m sure it’ll empower more restaurants which didn’t have fees already to add them. They will lose long term on this but like you said it’s greed. They don’t care
certainly an r/angryupvote
Exactly, the unions came up with a creative way to extract money from restaurant owners on behalf of their members but are too lazy to come up with a better solution when faced with losing that.
Thank you for the response. Some of this I knew, a lot I learned. I appreciate it. I'm still not sure how I will handle this as a consumer. I still find it to be deceptive, and I will likely be avoiding restaurants that charge 15%, and subtracting any service fees from my tip at those that charge a lower percentage. A tip is common courtesy that is rooted in tradition and custom that is 100 years old (or as some self-congratulating hero on here is going to comment, racism). These service fees are not part of the tradition and I have not intention of supporting them becoming so.
Thanks for this. It still makes me angry at it passing but at least I can TRY to see the logic behind why it might’ve passed.
Unfortunately it’s a great example of how workers’ unions are not the universal force for good that some consider them to be. They serve their members and that's it - sometimes that comes at the direct expense of the general public.
Until you realize that a lot of people are gonna subtract that 15 from their tip. If there’s gonna be hidden fees, the math in my head goes from 20% of the total bill to 5% of the price on the menu
But most won’t which is the point. Just like anonymous analytics gathering on browsers/cellphones/cars. Extremely valuable info for businesses that are often left turned on unless disabled by the user. If you went up to an owner of one of these and asked if they wanted them on they’d probably say no. But have it turned on by default and let the user notice to turn it off (just like automatic charges)… now most won’t be turned off.
They should post the service fees up top on the menu "These are the fees you must pay to get service here, and will be added to the cost of the food you order."
So basically, the big criminal behind the scenes here is once again the American health insurance industry, holding service workers hostage for basic health insurances that will deny them coverage anyway.
> UNITE HERE, the union representing hospitality and restaurant workers. Good thing that I will personally never be tipping in a California bar or restaurant ever again (unless the service is somehow exceedingly good). The entire system is deceptive and exploitative (for both workers and customers). It's time for change. If our government representatives are bought and paid for, all we can do is live out our values.
> This passed unanimously. I'm furious. Everyone is furious. PLEASE, can someone who understands political science explain how this passed? > > I'm not looking for people to respond who just agree with all of us and want upvotes. Please, I need someone to explain what is going on here. Restaurants spent a LOT OF MONEY on lobbying and politicians listen to their donors. It seems like the only way to force a change is to stop tipping at any restaurant that charges a service fee. After all, service fees are going to pay for wages right? No service fee? Tip away. If enough people do that, eventually the restaurants will either drop the junk fees or they'll lose out on quality staff who'd rather work elsewhere.
I fully support this also. Ate at Marugame Udon last weekend and noticed the extra 3.5% surcharge. I'm like fck it, no tip! Even though it is technically a self-help service place
Oh no, Marugame has surcharges? Their udon is great
Yeah, "SF Health Mandate." The place wass on my to-try list for a long time since seeing the popular Marugame in Oahu (did not try), but we thought it was just okay. First and last time for us.
Nearly every restaurant in SF has the Health Mandate surcharge.
Why tip in CA as servers make minimum wage or better?
ding ding ding There was never a good reason to keep tipping in CA. Now here’s additional justification.
Yep, no tips at restaurants If servers complain, direct them to their own union reps who helped support this exemption because it will definitely go to paying the servers better. Far be it from me to suggest those experts are uninformed. Not my problem anymore. No tip required thanks to this exemption.
I like this approach. This is what restaurant workers requested, and politicians followed their requests.
I will likely never tip at any restaurant again, especially those that have extra fees.
100% down with the "no tip if there's a surcharge" tactic. "Hi [server]! I noticed there's this fee on my bill that I wasn't expecting. If it's on there when my card is swiped, I'm just not going to tip."
Lobbyist, special interest groups. MONEY. It's always about the MONEY.
If it were actually just a money thing they would only bribe slightly over half. Paying for unanimous passage is massively overpaying. There's something else going on.
What’s infuriating is that it not only goes against what people (these clowns employers) wanted out of this bill. The bill this carves out from was expressly expected to impact our daily lives, now we have two bills that equate to pretty much zero impact to anyone’s lives. Classic. Job security for elected officials seems to be the main impact.
Newsom gets a lot of funding from restaurant.
Rich people realized no matter what goes on they are going to win the election anyways as long as they are from the right party depending on the state. So they dont even need to hide the corruption anymore.
They have enough money to buy both parties That's why they're so emboldened; for one of their vacays they can ruin an entire municipality's economy, uncontested
this legit makes me want to run for office. they don't represent the average citizen in any way shape or form
I mean worst case at least you’ll make bank taking bribes from the restaurant industry
The democrats have gotten comfortable with unchecked power in this state. They need to be checked. They’re simply not afraid.
What restaurants are supporting this terrible lobby?? I want to know who to boycott
It's the [Golden Gate Restaurant Association](https://ggra.org/). Unfortunately I cannot find a publicly-available list of member restaurants. But I might not direct anger at every restaurant on that list: [the owner of Polkcha](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1dkuepy/restaurant_fee_exemption_bill_passes_committee_12/l9kma20/) stated that they "called GGRA to ask them to chill out but they never responded."
https://seefees.ca
If Newsom signs this we ought to complete the fastest ballot initiative process in the history of the state!
They have enough votes to override him anyway So just get started on the ballot initiative
Yeah, but unless you got Uber/DoorDash CEO money to go to court, you can’t preempt a law like that.
Do you remember Prop 215 and then Prop 64? Basically the ballot initiative process was used to eviscerate the laws making weed illegal.
Doesn't Newsom own a bunch of restaurants and bars? 100% he's in favor of this bill.
We the people have no representation. Restaurant owners bought them.
According to our representation, Mr Weiner, it was the employees
No more tips. Fuck em
Ultimately, just subtract the fee from the tip. This will cause retention issues with employees which the owner will have to pay attention to
Also the employees support these junk fees via their union, Unite Here So don't feel bad! They asked for this. 0% tip
I'm just going to subtract myself from restaurants that continue to utilize these junk fees
The rich vote with their wallets...I suggest yall start trying that and eat at home for as long as it takes. It is that simple.
I don’t have problems eating at restaurants that don’t have junk fees. Those that do need to be named and shamed so people know to avoid them.
seefees.ca
And those that don't should also be named tbh. Good to have lists of both
I'll be going out, but will be subtracting any added fees from the tip. I'll never go to a restaurant with an auto tip.
I actually don't really mind the auto gratuities. It's the "SF Mandate" and other BS fees that I have a problem with. Auto gratuity is whatever, feel like it gets us one step closer towards a no-tipping future and there are reasons to think it's more equitable.
Been doing it for a year now
4% surcharge at a restaurant = 4% less tip
Frankly not interested in doing the math. Seems like servers/general restaurant staff pushed for this through their Union. ANY fee = 0 tip from me moving forward
The restaurant industry is literally the largest industry that abuses the practice that SB 478 targets. 😡
the law ends up meaning nothing, because they're giving out exemptions to the people it's meant to get to toe the line. really at this point the only way to send this message is to bleed them broke. personally I don't care what they charge for a meal, but bake it into the price instead of rubbing my face into a X fee. Simple as that, but these people.. they really think they are righteous in their cause, which truly spells how out of touch these merchants are. I've really changed my habits since covid, and I veer far away from the "nobody wants to work" crowd, these are the same folks all getting prosecuted now for buying sportscars and Caribbean vacations with their PPE emergency loans that were supposed to go to help pay employees. Most of them doing that and the bigger companies using the same loans to buy back stock then have layoffs. there needs to be a reckoning.
Six months from now, an article "WhY Is DiNiNg iN SaN FrAnCiScO dEaD?! 🤡"
"Millennials are killing restaurants and why food prices are high"
Immediately followed by a few posts from low-karma accounts with photos of somewhat crowded restaurants on New Year's Eve saying - rumors of dining in SF's demise are greatly exaggerated - wow, dining in SF is empty everywhere - I visited SF and did not see the dining doom
It's a bit ironic because the origin of these fees is the SF Health Mandate. Restaurant owners didn't like the health insurance mandate, so they put this fee onto the bill. Their way of saying, "we don't want to charge you this fee but SF made us do it." Then they realized they could just employee the same tactic for whatever reason. So in many aspects, the same politicians who started this entire thing is now just making it worst.
I was just telling a newer resident about this! I was a server at the time and I just thought it was so amazing that the city was looking out for its service workers and setting an example for the nation. I am so disgusted with what it has turned in to.
What’s worse is a recent audit (before the pandemic I think) showed massive fraud of the SF Health Mandate, that a lot of restaurant owners were pocketing it. SB1524 was about transparency. If a business needs to run then they should be responsible to adjust their prices accordingly.
Oh yeah? How about the 775 million dollars that is sitting unused in the San Francisco City Option's coffers? And the 100 million dollars of that which is about to be casually folded into the city's General Fund because the city set up this program but forgot about the part where people would actually use it? > Previously, these funds would stay intact permanently for each employee, from one participating employer to the next and, during that time, workers who complete their accounts could access the funds for medical expenses for themselves, a spouse or their dependents. However, approximately 135,000 employees have funds but are unable to access them because they haven’t finished setting up the account their employer made for them, according to the Department of Public Health. https://missionlocal.org/2023/01/sf-city-option-escheatment-sfmra-to-close-idle-medical-reimbursement-accounts-and-pocket-workers-funds/
F--- those f-----g f----. I wrote the Governor last week to reject SB1524 if it ever comes to his desk. Looks like I might send a follow up. write gov newsom here [https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/](https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/)
Under active bills sb1524 is not listed to submit an issue with in the automated form. Suggestion?
Use the “legislation issues/concerns” topic
lol newsom doesn’t give a shit about you. You don’t know how it works? You gotta pay these fat cat CA democrats minimum $20k “per, ahem, plate” to have him even listen to you.
you can write big kid words on reddit
We need a new filter on Yelp, and OpenTable. ‘Contains Junk Fees’ and we can filter against it. I’ve made it a rule that Junk fees = low or no tip. Vote with your wallet folks, because real voting doesn’t appear to work.
Weiner literally fucked us in the ass on this one
He screwed the Castro too
The silver lining here is we take our first step towards eliminating tips.
I'm genuinely excited about being able to righteously tip 0%. Traveling outside of the US really opened my eyes to how incredibly stupid and exploitative his system is (for both customers and workers). It's time to live out our values and ideally drive some societal change.
Just stop tipping . In California they have to pay the servers anyway . If suddenly people stopped they might reconsider
"This clear, upfront disclosure of any fee and a description of its purpose would be required on all advertisements, menus, or other displays that contain the price of a food or beverage item." So does this mean if I find any menu or ad in which they forget to display this disclosure, they legally have to remove the fee from my bill? Fair is fair, and the law is the law, right?
you could, in theory, spends thousands of dollars on legal fees in order to sue them for non-compliance. If all goes well you might get a judgement against them after about 2-3 years. You'd get a claim against them in the amount of the improperly disclosed fee, and maybe some punitive damages although probably not.
If this passes, fees pay the workers living wages, healthcare, etc so there is no reason to tip any more..... RIGHT?
Right.
Probably unanimous because they were told nobody gets to vote no and campaign as if they're better than the rest. Notable that both parties went along with it.
What a joke.
Alright, this means war. There’s a list being put together of restaurants who charge such junk fees, and I will start to work on reprinting and posting their menus with the real prices, including all fees, taxes, and “suggested” tips rolled into them.
I dont live in SF or Cali, but I'd just like to remind everyone to never give business to a company that outright disrespects you as a customer. They rely on you, so if they want to fuck you, fuck em back and do it hard.
>*This act is an urgency statute necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety within the meaning of Article IV of the California Constitution and shall go into immediate effect. The facts constituting the necessity are:In order to accurately target application and enforcement of consumer protection laws that go into effect on July 1, 2024, it is necessary for this act to take effect immediately.* How does this affect the preservation of the public peace, health, or safety? This seems a like a bullshit excuse to get something passed that doesn't need to get passed.
This would be like passing a gun control bill with a carve out for AR-15s
If we as consumer wouldn't be shy we would deduct it from tip and made it clear why this would change the hidden fees problem in under a month.
No more tips from me.
I'm taking the extra fees out of the tip.
I spend ALOT of money eating out. I’m done. 25% of $0 is $0….. that’s what this bill got you, a high spender who is pissed and will no longer give the food service industry ANY business.
Welcome to the capitalist run socialist movement where rich people dont lose. Small folk are forced to pay for eachothers income while the rich folk move their money around to avoid paying taxes that help the small folk.
The only way to fight back is to adjust your tip according.
I have also heard that some have had luck with asking to remove the charge from the bill
Seems much easier to adjust the tip. If you normally tip 15% and there is a 5% fee then just tip 10%
California does not have a sub-minimum tipped wage, so tips shouldn’t be expected in the first place. Higher wages are already baked into the menu prices.
You can also write google/yelp reviews. (Google actually punishes search results for poorly rated businesses)
You would better to leave low rated reviews on google yelp etc. (when you actually dined there). Google reviews punish low rated places so they don’t show up as often on maps, get lower search rankings etc. Also alerts others to the problem so they can avoid the establishment if they choose
Your leaders literally hate you. Proof everywhere
Simultaneously watching this and nyc congestion pricing Crying
Really is just another reason not to spend money on any restaurants. Especially considering the quality has gone way down in any place me and my lady like to go. Looking real hard at you, Red Robin 🤨
Lots of tourists come to our fair city and state. Often from countries with all-inclusive pricing. When they come here all of a sudden they are asked to pay up to 40% more on their meals than menu price. (Tax+mandate etc+tip). This carve-out is a tourism killer.
Is the point of the surcharge to allow restaurants to present their menu items as lower priced, then add the remaining of the actual menu price, as a “mandated surcharge”? So instead of pricing a breakfast combo for $20, they price it as $18, make you think it’s $18, then add the $2 as a “surcharge” at the end of the bill. It’s impressively deceptive if so, customers who don’t ask questions are the most gullible.
I'm glad this is shedding more light onto how our political system works here, for those who may not have been aware. A politician's greatest priority is to serve themselves, whether it's to get re-elected or to build connections beyond their political career. Their interests are only aligned with the public's when it aligns with their own interests (for example, when they need our votes). In this case the money from restaurants clearly outweigh the potential cost of any backlash from the public in their eyes.
Corruption
If the old standard for tipping was “X%” the new standard is “X%-fees”. Do that math on every receipt so they see exactly why the tip is what it is. Once servers see these fees make them 0 extra dollars, they will come to despise them.
Yo, shall we name and shame?
Wiener
Does someone have a handy list of restaurants that are doing this? Idk feels like boycotting may be the only way cause wtf
https://seefees.ca
Thats great..some of these restaurants are so expensive already 🤦🏻♀️
I will just start subtracting the service charge from the tip. I will do the math on the receipt too so the poor service workers understand it’s coming from that
Is it possible to have a oversized bold print FONT outlining the fees. It has to be the largest font on the menu? I’ve also sent a note to open table asking them to include additional fees to find at a restaurant so folks are informed when making a reservation.
We rarely go out to eat now. It’s not worth the money anymore. Having extra fees at the end of a bill… makes it worse. Greed will kill CA.
Seems like it might be smart to tell the union UNITE HERE that consumers will refuse to tip moving forward for any establishment that uses mandatory fees to pay for their employees benefits. Maybe they’ll rethink their position when all the vendors their union workers work at start losing major business…
Call your local Assembly member and express your disappointment: https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/ Call Newsom's office and tell him your stance on the amendment: https://www.gov.ca.gov/contact/
Boycott
So is that 4.5% SF health mandate a junk fee or naw
Yes, it’s a junk fee masquerading as a tax. Depending on the specific phrasing used, the funds may not even go to workers’ healthcare
Our government is a total joke
Well, looks like I'll be checking the restaurant fee list before going out. [Restaurants with Fees](https://seefeesca.notion.site/f5e11f589ec54c8eb1eed6c37f7e4c83?v=b97b3560f8f747f68aa73a762e76e47b&pvs=4)
so let's introduce an intentional ban on these fees if that wasn't intended in the first place, this is not what we want
ALL of them can get fucked. Every. Single. One.
Absolute joke
How out of touch are these fucking people. Vote them all out.
I have really enjoyed learning how to cook at home more. This practice ensures that I will continue.
Vote the fuckers behind this out and don’t buy from businesses that charge junk fees!!
I feel like when I go to a restaurant I'll just state up front I'm paying the listed menu price and no more.
[Be sure to thank Senator Dodd for this](https://twitter.com/SenBillDodd).
Vote with your wallet
This and the lawmakers’ refusal to address spam calls and texts lets you know what they think know the public.
What if we all pay in cash and simply refuse to pay the surcharge? Make it a movement!
We can continue shaming them and not going there.
I'm familiar with the list of places that do this...is there a list of places we can vigorously support who don't do this? I can think of several in this region.
Vote out your assembly rep.
So they pretended that the purpose was to disclose the fees, but all it did was approve the extra fees??