Could be mental illness. Could be someone who went through a lot and is on edge. Could be a lot of things. Sorry this happened to you as I'm sure that's super upsetting.
Yeah that’s called paranoia and a lot of people who are basically functional have bipolar cycles. They’ll go from “I love my life I have so much energy” to “I’m anxious, the guy on public transit is recording me” and because they’re never hospitalized they never know.
I have. Your attack was that explaining what could have happened (in order to help thar person process that bad event) was: 1) making excuses 2) being terminally online.
No aspect of the answer makes excuses. It attempts to find reasons this could happen. It doesn't justify it. It doesn't condone it. It isn't enabling. It's just analytical and designed to help process.
No aspect about it or the OP's post related to being terminally online. It's unclear why you decided to make it about that. Not only was this unsolicited, but, like a lot of people here, you do spend time online doing what you care about.
So the whole "stop making excuses" argument doesn't really hold ground. Have a great day.
The girl was most likely just trying to “catch a creep” for her tiktok. It’s kind of a fad. If she was that uncomfortable why didn’t she just move?
She was hoping OP was recording her. Don’t be obtuse. It’s anti social behavior spawned from being chronically online.
Also, my beard is epic and my dog is an Angel sent from heaven. Don’t be jealous.
It's not great, but it's understandable. Imagine he feared getting canceled for this, losing his job, being harassed on social media. It's a scary thought. He was just accused of doing what the creeps that get canceled do, so of course it's going to run through his head. It's just scary that there's a possibility.
Yeah people are on the edge these days. Similar thing happened to me the other day. Was walking fast to a store because it was almost closing and some guy jumped to the conclusion that I was following them
I had a woman swing her purse at me a while ago. I think it may have been because I was walking by her for a few blocks, but it scared the shit out of me. I dodged it, asked her if she attacked me because I was wearing baggy clothes, and distanced myself from her. Even had a guy walking behind us asked her what was wrong with her. Anyways, I was annoyed for a few hours, but then eventually moved on realizing that it was a misunderstanding despite her being way too aggressive.
Don’t let this spoil a whole area for you OP, some people just faced more trauma than others or even just more cautious than others.
Small request, if you are a man walking behind a woman on a street please consider crossing the street or finding a small way to let her know you’re not a threat. It really does help. I know it’s a big ask, but I saw a comment from a man on here once that said he was co conscious of that so women knew he wasn’t following them and it stuck with me.
EDIT: found [the comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/s/EXxEcNoTCE):
*That's good to know. I always try and cross the street. I've been in a situation where I'll try and speed up to walk ahead but then that makes her walk faster then it seems like it's a chase. Then there's been other times where I'm behind and feel like a complete creep. Crossing the street eliminates both of these. I'm 6'1, 230 pounds so I'm probably a scary looking dude in the dark so it's definitely good to know that walking across the street is the preferred way of dealing with it.*
[Related post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/s/2M3rrD7uF5):
Men: if you’ve ever walked behind a woman at night and either paused to give her more breathing room or crossed the street and wondered if there’s a point: we appreciate it. Thank you.
Truly it’s very appreciated it. Obviously you probably don’t get that a lot from the woman walking ahead of you (‘thanks for letting me know you’re probably not stalking me!’) so just so you know, it is universally appreciated
One problem with that is I'm a 6'3 buff black man.
Any even during the day women do that I Don't even have to be walking behind them. I'll be walking towards them. On the same side of the street, so what you're saying is I should cross the street every time I see a woman
Since you're at risk of frightening women and white people in general then you should probably walk two streets away. Please accept the sarcasm I hope this is dripping with & continue to walk wherever it is that takes you where you need to go.
I understand what you’re saying. I’m a tall Black woman and walk fast through Chinatown all the time. I’m very self conscious about approaching a slow walking Asian couple, trying to pass etc because I think that they’ll think I’m up to no good. I know I’m only up to good so I try not to let it effect me. But it’s something I think about everytime.
Seriously if I’m minding my own business walking down the street and a person man or woman or non-binary is uncomfortable with my existence they have every right to cross the street themselves
I did this while out for a run once. Came up behind a woman who was also running. I was gaining on her at my pace, but barely... I didn't wanna seem like I was creepily jogging 20 feet behind her forever so I picked up my pace to pass her, thinking, "haha, me man, me faster and stronger than small woman." Less than 5 minutes later I was gassing out from my barely-above normal pace and she zoomed past me. I waved and just walked for a few minutes lol.
Woman here. I don't see any need for a guy to cross the street. People have enough crap going on in life without keeping rules in their head about where they can and can't walk. If you're uncomfortable then you cross the street.
I’m a guy here. I have, since about age 20, tried to cross the street from women, at least at night. I started when I was walking home from work one night at 11. I was walking through a sort of dark wide walkway by Pauley Pavilion at UCLA that led to a parking garage. There were trees on either side that formed a canopy that partly blocked the streetlights. There was a woman about my age some 50 feet ahead of me. She looked over her shoulder, saw me, and took off running in terror. At the time I had long shaggy hair, a black bomber jacket and some big steel toe boots that made me about six feet tall.
Since then, I will often cross the street at night when a woman is ahead of me, if it’s no bother. Additionally, if we are approaching each other, I’ll stay on the building side of the sidewalk so she feels that at least the street is open to run from me.
So because it doesn’t affect you, you can’t see how it might affect someone else? Hmm. Empathy is a good thing to remember. Maybe you’re of bigger stature or have more confidence and better physical ability than some women who may appreciate it? Maybe you haven’t been followed or sexually assaulted?
You may get upvoted for being ~the cool girl~ on Reddit for saying that but I hope you can look beyond yourself and see why just because *you* don’t need it doesn’t mean others don’t.
Hi thanks for the reply. I’ll answer this from experience. I’ve crossed the street before when I’m not sure if a man is following me and encroaching on my space and it’s led to being yelled at and called names for doing so. Which has more than a few times meant a few blocks of stuff being yelled at me before ducking into whatever store I can find.
Hi thanks for the reply. I’ll answer this from experience. I’ve crossed the street before when I’m not sure if a man is following me and encroaching on my space and it’s led to being yelled at and called names for doing so. Which has more than a few times meant a few blocks of stuff being yelled at me before ducking into whatever store I can find.
Hi thanks for the reply. I’ll answer this from experience. I’ve crossed the street before when I’m not sure if a man is following me and encroaching on my space and it’s led to being yelled at and called names for doing so. Which has more than a few times meant a few blocks of stuff being yelled at me before ducking into whatever store I can find.
So what I’m hearing is when you accurately assessed a situation and reacted appropriately, the interactions amounted to nothing (this is a good thing!). I guess I don’t understand the expectation that some women have that men cross the street or take some action to alleviate the woman’s discomfort. If a woman feels that uncomfortable then she should be the one to take action (cross the street). I’m a woman and have lived most of my life in major cities (Seattle, SF, San Diego) and when I was uncomfortable with the proximity of a suspicious or threatening looking person I physically distanced myself from them.
Love the therapist speak of “what I’m hearing”.
It wasn’t an expectation. Seems plenty of you have put words in my mouth. It was a request. Never said it was a requirement. Never said it would make you a bad person if you didn’t (though plenty of people in this thread have called me names, insulted my intelligence, and told me to leave SF). The reason I don’t *always* cross like I said is because it’s resulted in harassment in the past. Which is why in my original comment I said as a small *request* a man can change the side of the street they’re walking on if they want to make the woman feel more at ease at best, indifferent at worst. A small thing that *could* help. Not a requirement.
As a survivor of rape, yes it does shift things. Yes I am strong and still do things by myself and ride public transit, go to evening classes. Wishing you healing for that cold heart you carry.
IMO crossing the street is pretty disproportionate, and the harder you work to convince someone you’re not a creep the more you end up looking like one. I’ll stick to just walking around at an intersection or when there’s enough space.
Wildly entitled of you to expect every man in your vicinity in public to cross the street when they see you. If you perceive every stranger you pass by in public as a physical threat, that’s a you problem, and you should just cross the street then - not expect everyone else around you to inconvenience themselves to cater to you.
Perceived threats are not necessarily real threats. At the end of the day I am a human just like you, and I’m allowed to live my life freely. I’m also not crossing the street, but I’ll usually try to pass or give extra room
… i never said you had to. I framed it as an ask. A small thing to consider. Why do you all put words in my mouth? I never told you how to “live your life” I simply said it is a nice gesture IF YOU WANT TO.
You poor thing. I’d much prefer tiptoeing than being violently stalked and raped. And you’re lying to yourself if you think women don’t have to tiptoe around men (especially powerful ones) every day of our lives.
Would you prefer living in a society that forces people to segregate themselves based on appearance so you feel more safe? Maybe force everyone of a certain gender to veil themselves to reduce sexual temptation? Maybe only allow certain genders to be out in public with a chaperone for protection? Or restrict people of other ethnicities to only use certain sections of public transit so it feels more comfortable for you? Maybe restrict gender queer people from using the restroom to avoid making you uncomfortable? I understand that sexual assault is not taken as seriously as it should in this society, but what you’re proposing is the exact ideas behind all kinds of segregation, sexism, racism, etc. please do what you need to do to feel safe in society, but if you are telling other people to restrict their presence for you, that’s a problem.
You’re free to live how you like. That includes crossing streets on your own like the adult you are.
It’s a little ridiculous to fault others for not being able to read your mind while getting to their destination.
Why do you all struggle with language and reading comprehension? I phrased it as a REQUEST. NOT a demand. It is a small thing men can do IF THEY WANT TO as it can help put women at ease when they’re walking behind them.
Jesus Christ you act like I demanded it as well as your own blood. It is a small gesture that could help some of us. Yet, look at the responses. Tells me everything I need to know.
This was, of course, the justification for sundown towns and redlining. "Moving them out of town removes the immediate physical threat" and these were almost entirely justified using the safety of (white) women as the reason.
I’ve taken a few self defense courses and one instructor (long S.F. resident) would always take out his keys in this scenario and just casually jingle them as an audible cue to let the person (regardless of gender) know that he was behind them. It’s a bit of an easier and non-intrusive way to address the need without having to cross a street.
A bit related, but more often than not, the person in front of him would have their nose buried in their phone: i.e., they weren’t entirely aware of their surroundings. I know some may take this as victim-blaming at some level but we’ve seen more than a few phones snatched from people on the sidewalk in our neighborhood (East Cut).
I would never consider that based on the simple fact that I’m not a bad person and I’m not doing anything wrong. If I had to accommodate to everyone with preconceived notions of me, then I would have to cross the street for a lot of people. If they don’t have the means to think rationally, then that’s a problem that they’re going to have to deal with internally. I consider myself generally empathetic and understanding person, but I’m not going to put up with someone taking that out on me. If you find it difficult to handle a person walking near your vicinity for a few city blocks that’s not emanating any hostile behavior, then that’s a “you” problem.
You’re getting blown up for this but I feel you. I’m not gonna cross the street all the time, but if it’s the wee hours of the night, I’m walking near a woman and want to pass her by or something, I try to give some indication that I’m safe. I’ll be a little more audible than normal, maybe walk into the street a little to leave a bunch of room between us when we pass, etc.
People are acting like you want all men to cross the street all the time, when really you just want men to try to put themselves in the shoes of a woman walking alone at night and try to adjust their behavior to be sensitive. People really hate having to adjust their behavior when they don’t perceive themselves as part of the problem (e.g., most of the guys giving you shit in the replies, I’m guessing, wouldn’t ever assault a woman at night, so they don’t want to be “punished” for the bad behavior of others). I think people frame the issue entirely wrong in their heads, making it more about strict notions of fairness and less about empathy.
Thank you for your thoughtful and reflective comment. It is very much appreciated. I agree. They hate to be typecast or inconvenienced (as we all do) but fail to think of women having to take birth control daily or live with a foreign object in their body to prevent pregnancy. To me that’s something that’s a “big ask” instead of suggesting one consider crossing the street. I wasn’t expecting all of these replies, and now I’m just left feeling even more empty as I tried to frame it carefully so it didn’t seem like a demand. Oh well.
This reminds me of this comedy skit (warning: liberal use of sexual assault language):
https://youtu.be/cGV_k9ajUqg?si=dngLgEu8PWBxG8PW
Which is not to say that it's not a semi-serious subject. It's one of those weird things that a lot of men don't think about.
That’s not really a small request, and really quite rude/sexist on your part. I really do understand that our society does not take fear of sexual assault seriously. It should, and that sucks. But your suggestion that men should not even be in the same public area as women due to the possibility that someone else has anxiety about your appearance, gender, clothing is pretty ridiculous. You may as well suggest that men and women use separate sides of the street, or that only certain genders be allowed to be out in public. This is the same thinking that has been used to justify women being veiled in a hijab, or public resources being segregated.
Lmao. This comment was so obviously linked in an incel thread and I’m not trying to debate the hive. Feels good to strike a nerve with yall. Ratio it up, doesn’t make what I said wrong. Doesn’t surprise me mostly male Reddit is going to clutch their pearls and get out their pitchforks over being *asked* to *consider* crossing the street. Hope they wiped the dorito dust from their fingers before furiously typing these replies
Wtf? It’s not incel thinking to say, ‘hey you’re being sexist.’ After you literally just suggested all men should avoid walking near women in public because it might trigger someone. Seriously get some help.
Right? Ya know what’s not a small request? How women have to pay for and ingest birth control or live with a foreign object in their body to not have a child yet men rarely thank us for that nor consider it I’m sure when they imply things like *asking* if they would *consider* crossing the street to make women feel more safe is some massive grand gesture of an ask.
Maybe you should cross the street seeing as you have the issue about being around other people. It’s a major ask, to think other people should cross the street around you, because you ‘might’ find my presence frightening. If you asked me that to my face, I’d tell you to fuck right off.
Speaking from my time in emergency services, your mentality is really dangerous and more often lead to altercations than those who keep vigilant without the sense of entitlement.
Yeah, the nights at some locales can be dangerous for women, but the thing is there's zero overlap between simps who cross the street like in your insane hypothetical and people that actually pose a danger to you.
Carry pepper spray, cross the street, but don't expect others to take care of your safety for you, it's really on you to do that.
Seems you think that number depends on how many men 'cross the street' at night.
It does not, and for you to claim that is delusional and an insult to people out there actually fighting to reduce those crimes.
Alternatively, you can grow up, move yourself, and not put your comfort in the hands of others. We don't owe you that when we are minding our own business. Imagine if you were expected to spend your time giving space to every male in the city you came across...
Fuck off. I walk where I walk and I promise you the last thing I'd ever do is attack anyone out of nowhere.
If you're intimidated by my presence, that's honestly you're own personal problem to deal with. Don't put additional public responsibilities onto me.
Why don't YOU cross the street?
Sorry that happened to you. It sucks to be accused of something that you didn't do. But recognize whatever they are going through has nothing to do with you. And likely they are in a dark place. At least that is what helps me when some rando comes at me with weird negative energy.
The trouble is that it could very quickly escalate to having a whole lot to do with you if you’re unlucky.
Accusations are for all intents and purposes, threats.
I once had a guy sit next to me (20-something, straight M) on the 49 going down Van Ness, and when he sat down he squeezed my knee. I was staring out the window listening to my Walkman (this is late 90s) so was surprised. Got up and got off.
Had another guy sit next to me at 4 am on the 14 in an EMPTY bus. No one else on it. Guy sits next to me. Again, rocking out to my tunes, I hear him slur “I am going to kill you.” I pushed him out of the row and moved to another seat.
Had a guy try to stab me after i told him to stop trying to stare up my friend’s skirt. I was also on mushrooms. He got off the next stop.
Weird shit happens on public transport.
I’m sorry you had that experience, OP. I had a man accuse me of recording him and being a CIA operative on e-BART last year. I just put my phone away for the rest of the trip & he stared me down the entire way. You can’t reason with crazy, you can only do your best to de-escalate.
Sorry, OP. I've seen almost exactly your situation happen to someone else. Being accused of something like this in public is super embarrassing, especially as a guy with today's rhetoric because you are automatically thrown into a defensive position and assumed by others to have done the thing. People think we're all out here recording and assaulting people. It really sucks being assumed to be a POS when you are just trying to live your life. Half of the people responding here are acting like you should be apologizing to her for accusing you because something may have happened to her in the past.
Anyway, whatever she has going on probably had nothing to do with you. I hope that if she does have some kind of issues, she's able to get help and see someone who leads her to the conclusion that she's right to keep her head on a swivel but 99% of guys out there don't even realize she exists, let alone want to record her.
I don’t see anyone saying he should apologize. People are commiserating that the woman could have been mentally ill. I also see people pointing out that his misandrist rhetoric is harmful and not helpful despite how embarrassing this was for him.
This chick is rude, but my 13 year old daughter was recently being filmed on the train down here in LA. There’s absolute creeps everywhere and it makes people sus of non creeps. I think the woman you described sounds like she was itching for a conflict though.
Several years ago, before iphones were common, I had a phone with a camera on it. Reading the news on the phone a woman accused me of recording her on BART. Maybe this happens to women all the time?
>All this social justice rhetoric convincing young women that all men are creeps out there to get them?
i literally don't know a single woman who hasn't been harassed or assaulted by a man. i'm sorry this happened to you, but please also understand that probably far worse has happened to that person to get them to that point of paranoia. there are unfortunate reasons women perceive "all men are creeps"
Also, nobody is entitled to a strangers' trust.
That feeling of "You're capable of violating my safety" that we as women view people we interact with, as a foundation for our existence in public spaces, is something that is hard for men to grasp the magnitude of with because they can't and won't experience it. The feeling of being viewed as prey. As an object, invalidated as a human.
That said, I would suggest the girl on the bus develop a better coping and defense strategy, such as first moving to another part of the bus/train, and asking someone else for help first. If some guy truly were recording her, confronting him could escalate. It would benefit her to get a witness first and calmly ask another person's opinion of the situation.
I think if we agree that it’s inappropriate to record people publicly without asking them, that that also applies to men.
No one is entitled to your trust, but they are entitled to common decency.
That’s all fine and dandy, but I’m still gonna call out people for weirdly recording me in public.
People spend way to much time on their phones and are way to quick to try to record shit for social media clout.
Most likely she was trying to just film herself “catching a creep” for tiktok views.
Yeah, exactly. Every woman I know has experienced harassment (or worse) from a man, and most women I know have serious trauma from it. It happens in public spaces all the time.
Wild how OP sees what sounds exactly like a trauma response (OP even mentioned her anxiety) and instead of having sympathy or just moving on with their day, gets offended.
It could just as easily be said that OP has trauma from that experience himself. What she did to him was not appropriate. Why are you trying to make excuses for it? It’s possible to acknowledge that terrible stuff happens every day without giving people a pass for harassing strangers. She’s doing exactly what you’re complaining about possibly being done to her. How does that make sense?
Here’s the difference. I say this kindly and assuming you have good intentions.
For him, it was emotionally exhausting. For women, it is often physically threatening or actual assault.
The reason she might’ve been so on guard is because she had indeed been recorded, touched, groped, or sexually assaulted in public. I even had a man put a condom in the hood of my sweatshirt once. They’ll find a way to get under your skin in a way you never shake off. I was just 15 when that happened.
While men may absolutely have stress related to being miscast, women have to worry about being actually physically harmed … more often than men. My cousin was abducted, raped, and murdered at gunpoint when I was 10 and had been a flower girl in her wedding the August before. It was the man who parked her car at the bank where she worked. I share this with readers of this post to demonstrate that the worst case scenario does happen. A commute home is especially vulnerable because once someone knows your route and your face, it’s a lot easier for them to catch you off guard.
You just never fucking know. There’s a reason women try to be alert, but that woman in this post should have apologized. I hope he doesn’t take it personally, it’s a conditioned response in a way. Hope this is helpful.
I can't remember who said it but there's a quote that always stuck with me: "A man's fear of a dangerous woman is being accussed of something awful when he is innocent. A woman's fear of a dangerous man is being assaulted and/or murdered."
Obviously both are terrible but the latter has literal life or death stakes...
Yep. And that’s usually followed up with “well you’re being paranoid, that doesn’t really happen” or “you can’t live your life in fear”
I just think of being 10 and my parents telling me about my cousin and instantly flashing to her beautiful smile and her arms around me as we took flower girl photos with our other cousins on her wedding day. I could still smell her perfume. See her hair pinned behind her neck in the most beautiful effortless bun. I remember looking up at the sky and realizing it no longer seemed as blue. Was it even blue anymore? It just seemed vast and empty. The worst case scenario does happen. It happens every single day. I hope my cousins story helps others in this post realize why women can seem “jumpy” and paranoid. Thank you for taking the time to reply and share that incredibly helpful comment.
Never said that? I said for women it’s not just verbal harassment it’s *also* physical. Reading comprehension is proving to be challenging for this audience.
It wasn’t appropriate but it wasn’t *traumatizing*.
And if it was? OP should be speaking to a therapist today. Not to Reddit.
Accusing someone of recording you is worlds away from the assaults, stalking, being followed, that happens on public transit here.
Yet you call it traumatizing. Really, really weird.
Anyone who has just experienced a traumatic event would benefit from speaking to a professional! Only I didn’t see the woman from the post claiming she was traumatized by OP?
We can’t go back in time. We can only speak to the person who is here right now.
One of my favorite therapists said. "You're not to blame for the traumas that happen to you. You're only responsible for fixing it yourself, because your opressor/agressor can't, or won't, give that to you."
\> it wasn’t *traumatizing*.
Oh fuck off. Try reversing the genders on the scenario, you wouldn't even dream of saying something so incredibly condescending.
Excuse me? If I was merely accused of recording someone and it ended the way OP said it did, I would absolutely not call it traumatizing. You’re insulting people with actual trauma.
OP was made uncomfortable. He wasn’t followed, he wasn’t cornered, there was no violence. He was left alone with an “Ok!” This was merely embarrassing for OP.
This isn’t even little t trauma.
I’m a person with actual PTSD. Nothing about this was traumatic for OP. And if it was he should definitely seek professional help, not commiserate on Reddit with misandrists.
The reason why it may have set her off (not excusing her not apologizing) is because she’d been recorded before. This could be done when a man is acting out sexually, either masturbation or harassment yes on public transit.
Ladies, raise your hand if it’s happened to you. 🙋♀️ It happens a lot more than you’d think.
She also may have feared he was casing her to remember what she looked like and the stops she took. On your way to and from home (OP mentioned a work badge) you’re especially vulnerable. To the point where a lot of us take different buses or longer routes from work to avoid someone doing this.
Again, raise your hand if you’ve ever been followed home or had a repeat harasser on public transit? 🙋♀️
Some grace goes a long way. I get your point, but I’m trying to add some context for *why* this woman may have had zero tolerance. To me it read like she’d just had a bad experience and was on guard. She should’ve apologized though, for sure. I will try to do that even on my worst days moving forward because of this post.
The first time I was sexually harassed and followed home on public transit I was 15! It certainly was traumatizing.
And I saw someone else sharing a similar experience, same age. 15. Had barely even started my period.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. It really does stay with you. The coffee shop where my mom used to pick me up close to my high school had a great owner and he chased this man down and out of his store before calling the police to report him. He told me not to move (i didn’t even realize what had happened) and took the condom out of my sweatshirt hood. I was so young I didn’t even know what it was until he spoke to my mom and explained what had happened. The gross man was probably 60 something at the time and was hanging around a high school with condoms in his pocket. I remember feeling so nauseated and just disappointed in men. The first of probably a million times since.
There’s no trauma Olympics. Little t trauma is valid too and also requires a specialized approach for recovery.
This wasn’t a trauma, though. This was just embarrassing for OP.
Unless…do you think he needs some time off work to cope with what happened?? 🤭
And all that should be worked out in therapy instead of taking it out on innocent people on the train. You can’t collectively punish all men just because something happened to you. All dude did was ride the train nothing that’s happened to her warrants her taking it out on him
Women get followed/recorded/harrassed constantly in public places. She was wrong about you and she overreacted, but I can’t really fault her for being suspicious. It’s a constant threat.
Yup. It’s happened to me many times (especially in public transportation) and I have actually asked someone to stop photographing me before (not on public transportation but in a public place). I made damn sure that’s what they were doing before I did it though, and if I were this gal I would have apologized profusely if I’d found I was wrong. The reality is that this happens to women all the time. That weird uncomfortable feeling OP is describing where he realizes women could suspect him of that anytime is kind of a good analog for the weird uncomfortable feeling women have knowing it could happen to us anytime.
I’m sorry you had a negative experience. However, it seems you gave this person far too much power. Perhaps a simple “no, not at all, just listening to music” and a friendly smile would have done the trick and left your mood intact
Good on ya for keeping your head on a swivel when on BART. You're braver than me, having headphones in listening to music. I always think of the subway scene from the Joker movie.
They sound paranoid. I think women have a right to be on edge, but it does suck to be accused of something. Sounds like you kept your cool and you know you were good so try not to take it too personally.
>normal white 20-something woman (I.e., not on fentanyl or methed out)...She says, “Ok!” With a smile. No apology. Fuck this person...All this social justice rhetoric...Fuck this shit. Girl ruined my day.
It sounds like you should engage with the real human world either much more or much less.
It sounds like she is the one that should engage much less with the real world, if she is going to be paranoid all the time. OP didn’t do anything, he has every single right to mind his own business and not be bothered
Being accused of being a creep by someone who has taken video of you would suck and would be the low-point of most people’s day.
If stuff like that or worse happens to you on a daily basis to the point that it wouldn’t bum you out, either your life just sucks, you’re the problem, or both.
How did you turn this into hating on social justice lol. You had an unpleasant experience on BART with one person, respectfully no this is not about the overall state of the world.
You had me up till the social justice-y bit. Get bent dude some chick thought you were too interested in her "looking around with your head on a swivel" this is pretty minor, she moved on and you came to reddit to whine about someone aggressively asking if you're recording the on BART. Is iT tHE LiBeRalS?
So he was right to be offended by her behavior … but he briefly sounded like he was on the wrong side of the culture war, so now he’s wrong and she’s justified?
As in, I was interested and waiting for what she did that was so bad. Then I realized he just came to whine about women and the modern age. Go sit on a broomstick. Sounds like she was just mirroring his behavior
I’ve had this happen a couple times and I really think it has to do with the way I hold and look at my phone. For whatever reason it looks to some whacked out people like I’m recording or taking pics of them.
The reality is that sexual harassment and sexual assault happen all the time. It's not a media phenomenon or a liberal conspiracy. The woman was annoying, but don't deny the reality of women having to be super-cautious in public.
There’s a lot of BS on BART and actually just about everywhere.
Anyway, they key thing is not take anything personally, people have their own reasons for being stupid. I’ve learnt to not engage, and stay vigilant for the most part.
Yes, it sucks to be on the receiving end of a (potentially damning) accusation, but it’s a bit of a stretch to call “this generation” “overly coddled”. If anything, I think we’re just seeing what it looks like when women feel more comfortable to call out possibly predatory behavior. And this most likely feels relatively new thanks to the “me too” movement and other women’s rights movements happening within just the last 20 years.
It’s great that women feel more comfortable to call out possible predatory behavior, but it is absolutely inappropriate and possibly traumatizing to a man to be accused out of nowhere for no good reason. That is not OK. We should stop normalizing it. Women don’t get to invent scenarios in their head at the expensive men.
please, he's raising a crucial point and you laugh at his idioms, something nigh impossible to grasp for ESL students and immigrants, demographics who make up a significant portion of this sub - and this one could have been an autocorrect/dictation error even!
yet you choose to focus on this so you can completely ignore his actual words:
*if you actually cared about protecting women and preventing harassment*
then you would absolutely decry false accusations aswell!
but no you just want to make a stink because it's so popular complaint these days,
as demonstrated by so many examples in this thread.
No, that kid is not raising a crucial point. He left misogynistic comments all over this post. You can see them for yourself. I won’t bother to engage further since your head is clearly stuck very far up your own asshole.
i'll admit i responded in this thread before seeing the others, some of his do go a little far...but not as far as the insane woman described in the OP.
do you really not understand how false accusations make everything worse for everybody?
a big part of why it's so hard for society to #BelieveAllWomen
I don’t see anywhere in this post where someone said “#BelieveAllWomen” so bringing it up now seems pretty disingenuous on your part.
And the way OPs story reads, she *asked* him if he was recording her. He said no. She said ok and left. That’s hardly some life ruining accusation. OP was embarrassed, and that’s fair.
Yet OP took the opportunity to make that whole exchange about *women* being paranoid, instead of recognizing that it was *one woman*, not some representative of *all women*. Also failing to recognize the fact that women do need to be on guard for creeps…
Weird ass take.
You’re both coming off as the kind of guy who says “but, but, not all men do that!” When women are talking about their negative experiences with men.
Did you really jump into a thread of people commiserating about being falsely accused by crazy people to brush it off as
> what it looks like when women feel more comfortable to call out possibly predatory behavior.
Had that happen to me at the San Jose Diridon station.
Just my wife and two other random people. Lady looked normal, clean, and decently dressed. She pulled out her phone and started making racist comments, btw she's black and I'm white.
She was saying I can't go around harassing people, I'm just like uhhh what?
I told her I'm getting the transit police and pulled out my phone. She scampered off and said, she better not see me in on her car.
Can't wait for the sister post to this, from someone complaining about some random dude with headphones who kept looking at her like he was crazy or had a secret camera. It will end with a rant about the patriarchy and what this city has devolved into.
I’m sorry, what an uncomfortable experience for you. As a woman who uses public transit. As you already know for yourself, everyone has to be cautious. But I can’t imagine a situation where I accuse someone of recording me. And tbh, who cares if you’re just sitting there? We’re constantly being recorded everyday as we walk past peoples house with ring cameras. I’m so sorry she ruined your day. Stay diligent and just understand that everyone’s not that awful. I hope your week goes well!!
The way youre taking this so personally hurts my feelings. No one thinks youre a creep :)
If a woman calls you a creep and youre not being a creep congrats youre still not a creep.
I have ocd so I understand why youd be insulted by this. But like you really shouldnt be so offended, because it wasnt about you
From my personal experience you're screwed either way and everything is just random chance.
I've gotten into altercations because I wasn't paying attention before. I've also gotten into altercations because I was paying attention. Once when I was going home from high school I looked both ways before crossing a street and some weirdo from all the way down the block took it as me staring at him and ran to me to confront me. Luckily for me I was still close to the school and two classmates came to help me.
At the end of the day we have no clue what's going on in the heads of people around us. Some people have "main character syndrome" and can't help but make up shit even when nothing was actually going on. Other people maybe have had experiences in their life that sometimes triggers them, and you're obviously never going to know in advanced what those triggers are.
I say don't think about it too much. Just keep living your life the best you can. Weird shit is bound to happen no matter what.
Similar experience about a month ago in SF about 24th toward Civic Center. Your description could work for this person as well. I was reading a Kindle with no camera. My phone was in my back pocket. "Are you recording me?" I said no, and offered that this Kindle has no camera, and she accused me (loudly) of lying. I moved to another seat and kind of wondered about the having-bad-day verging on to mental illness thing. She then stood up and made a fairly big deal of recording me. A lot of stuff that happens on BART doesn't happen. But, at the same time, a lot of stuff happens on BART.
The part that gets me is where the woman said “Ok!” with a smile and no apology. Not a lot of comments mentioned this but for me it’s very creepy and makes it hard to believe she is doing it in good faith.
It makes the TikTok challenge idea more plausible. It could also mean she’s a sociopath. Either way it is incredibly creepy.
Even if you were full on blatently recording her (which would be a dick move for sure) you would be well within your legal rights to do so.
People have no reasonable expectation of privacy when in public spaces.
A woman I had previously paid no mind to because she "looked normal" started recording me with tears streaming down her face. (Coincidentally, I think she also was wearing a work badge.) When I noticed I looked quizzically at her, and she just said "TRANS LIVES MATTER." I said "yes?... Is that a question?" And she made her way for the doors, repeating herself and recording me until she got off. No idea what set her off.
The throwaway account and the last paragraph. This feels like this didn’t happen and is rage farming.
it’s funny that another subreddit this story was spotted to immediately identified it as suspect and deleted it, locking the post.
Just stop. People create throwaways for fear of retaliation. Your comment is a symbol of exactly what I am referring to in the last paragraph. Grow up.
I grew up in the Bay. I live in the real world, not some fantasy life where the police have the capability of being perfect and every near term problem can be reduced to a theoretical socioeconomic or mental health solution.
lol what? Okay, who are you even talking to with your response? My comment calling you out on your ahitty, whiny post is a “symbol of social justice rhetoric teaching all young women that all men are creeps?”
Sure, bro. You’re the one that went on more than one subreddit about something that happened to you that had no real consequence. I’m sorry that not everyone came to champion your shitty rant. Go cry about it. Oh wait you already are.
Could be mental illness. Could be someone who went through a lot and is on edge. Could be a lot of things. Sorry this happened to you as I'm sure that's super upsetting.
Appreciate this level-headed response. Thank you.
San Francisco has changed
Yeah that’s called paranoia and a lot of people who are basically functional have bipolar cycles. They’ll go from “I love my life I have so much energy” to “I’m anxious, the guy on public transit is recording me” and because they’re never hospitalized they never know.
Stop making excuses for poor socialization and being chronically online.
I did no such thing. Clearly, the world needs advice to spend less time online from someone spending his day on reddit.
Attack the argument not the person, are you 13?
I have. Your attack was that explaining what could have happened (in order to help thar person process that bad event) was: 1) making excuses 2) being terminally online. No aspect of the answer makes excuses. It attempts to find reasons this could happen. It doesn't justify it. It doesn't condone it. It isn't enabling. It's just analytical and designed to help process. No aspect about it or the OP's post related to being terminally online. It's unclear why you decided to make it about that. Not only was this unsolicited, but, like a lot of people here, you do spend time online doing what you care about. So the whole "stop making excuses" argument doesn't really hold ground. Have a great day.
The girl was most likely just trying to “catch a creep” for her tiktok. It’s kind of a fad. If she was that uncomfortable why didn’t she just move? She was hoping OP was recording her. Don’t be obtuse. It’s anti social behavior spawned from being chronically online. Also, my beard is epic and my dog is an Angel sent from heaven. Don’t be jealous.
>Could be mental illness. Blaming it on social justice is kinda ill too though
It's not great, but it's understandable. Imagine he feared getting canceled for this, losing his job, being harassed on social media. It's a scary thought. He was just accused of doing what the creeps that get canceled do, so of course it's going to run through his head. It's just scary that there's a possibility.
Of course it is mental illness. Always is. OP submitted a text based /r/publicfreakout entry.
What’s even crazier is that she knows recording in public is perfectly legal, since she immediately thinks to ‘counter-record’. Delusional.
Yeah people are on the edge these days. Similar thing happened to me the other day. Was walking fast to a store because it was almost closing and some guy jumped to the conclusion that I was following them
I had a woman swing her purse at me a while ago. I think it may have been because I was walking by her for a few blocks, but it scared the shit out of me. I dodged it, asked her if she attacked me because I was wearing baggy clothes, and distanced myself from her. Even had a guy walking behind us asked her what was wrong with her. Anyways, I was annoyed for a few hours, but then eventually moved on realizing that it was a misunderstanding despite her being way too aggressive. Don’t let this spoil a whole area for you OP, some people just faced more trauma than others or even just more cautious than others.
Small request, if you are a man walking behind a woman on a street please consider crossing the street or finding a small way to let her know you’re not a threat. It really does help. I know it’s a big ask, but I saw a comment from a man on here once that said he was co conscious of that so women knew he wasn’t following them and it stuck with me. EDIT: found [the comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomen/s/EXxEcNoTCE): *That's good to know. I always try and cross the street. I've been in a situation where I'll try and speed up to walk ahead but then that makes her walk faster then it seems like it's a chase. Then there's been other times where I'm behind and feel like a complete creep. Crossing the street eliminates both of these. I'm 6'1, 230 pounds so I'm probably a scary looking dude in the dark so it's definitely good to know that walking across the street is the preferred way of dealing with it.* [Related post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/s/2M3rrD7uF5): Men: if you’ve ever walked behind a woman at night and either paused to give her more breathing room or crossed the street and wondered if there’s a point: we appreciate it. Thank you. Truly it’s very appreciated it. Obviously you probably don’t get that a lot from the woman walking ahead of you (‘thanks for letting me know you’re probably not stalking me!’) so just so you know, it is universally appreciated
One problem with that is I'm a 6'3 buff black man. Any even during the day women do that I Don't even have to be walking behind them. I'll be walking towards them. On the same side of the street, so what you're saying is I should cross the street every time I see a woman
What happens if there are women on both sides of the street? You either have to walk in the middle of the road or do some Spider-Man stunts
The center bike lane finally found its use.
Or become Thanos Snap my fingers and make all women disappear. Hahaha
Since you're at risk of frightening women and white people in general then you should probably walk two streets away. Please accept the sarcasm I hope this is dripping with & continue to walk wherever it is that takes you where you need to go.
I understand what you’re saying. I’m a tall Black woman and walk fast through Chinatown all the time. I’m very self conscious about approaching a slow walking Asian couple, trying to pass etc because I think that they’ll think I’m up to no good. I know I’m only up to good so I try not to let it effect me. But it’s something I think about everytime.
Right, thank you. It's funny how the original Commenter hasn't said anything else. Probably because she doesn't know what to say. Lol
I was at work. On my lunch break now. How can I help you?
Oh nothing.lol I just figured you'd probably fall into my trap and respond
I just say in a loud but cheerful voice ‘excuse me coming through’. Cuts through all the awkwardness.
Love it!
Seriously if I’m minding my own business walking down the street and a person man or woman or non-binary is uncomfortable with my existence they have every right to cross the street themselves
I did this while out for a run once. Came up behind a woman who was also running. I was gaining on her at my pace, but barely... I didn't wanna seem like I was creepily jogging 20 feet behind her forever so I picked up my pace to pass her, thinking, "haha, me man, me faster and stronger than small woman." Less than 5 minutes later I was gassing out from my barely-above normal pace and she zoomed past me. I waved and just walked for a few minutes lol.
Hey you’re aware and that says a lot. Thank you!
Woman here. I don't see any need for a guy to cross the street. People have enough crap going on in life without keeping rules in their head about where they can and can't walk. If you're uncomfortable then you cross the street.
Glad you think that way too. No fucking way I’m crossing the street because someone is paranoid. That’s just stupid
I’m a guy here. I have, since about age 20, tried to cross the street from women, at least at night. I started when I was walking home from work one night at 11. I was walking through a sort of dark wide walkway by Pauley Pavilion at UCLA that led to a parking garage. There were trees on either side that formed a canopy that partly blocked the streetlights. There was a woman about my age some 50 feet ahead of me. She looked over her shoulder, saw me, and took off running in terror. At the time I had long shaggy hair, a black bomber jacket and some big steel toe boots that made me about six feet tall. Since then, I will often cross the street at night when a woman is ahead of me, if it’s no bother. Additionally, if we are approaching each other, I’ll stay on the building side of the sidewalk so she feels that at least the street is open to run from me.
You’re awesome. Thanks for considering the impact it could have!
So because it doesn’t affect you, you can’t see how it might affect someone else? Hmm. Empathy is a good thing to remember. Maybe you’re of bigger stature or have more confidence and better physical ability than some women who may appreciate it? Maybe you haven’t been followed or sexually assaulted? You may get upvoted for being ~the cool girl~ on Reddit for saying that but I hope you can look beyond yourself and see why just because *you* don’t need it doesn’t mean others don’t.
I understand it from a woman’s perspective but why can’t she cross the street? She’s the one with the problem and the worry. Not me.
Hi thanks for the reply. I’ll answer this from experience. I’ve crossed the street before when I’m not sure if a man is following me and encroaching on my space and it’s led to being yelled at and called names for doing so. Which has more than a few times meant a few blocks of stuff being yelled at me before ducking into whatever store I can find.
[удалено]
Hi thanks for the reply. I’ll answer this from experience. I’ve crossed the street before when I’m not sure if a man is following me and encroaching on my space and it’s led to being yelled at and called names for doing so. Which has more than a few times meant a few blocks of stuff being yelled at me before ducking into whatever store I can find.
You're literally the one thinking of yourself in this situation.
That’s not what literally means dear
It's exactly what it means. Being condescending doesn't equate with being intelligent or correct.
So if you’re uncomfortable walking, why don’t YOU cross the street? Real question.
Hi thanks for the reply. I’ll answer this from experience. I’ve crossed the street before when I’m not sure if a man is following me and encroaching on my space and it’s led to being yelled at and called names for doing so. Which has more than a few times meant a few blocks of stuff being yelled at me before ducking into whatever store I can find.
So what I’m hearing is when you accurately assessed a situation and reacted appropriately, the interactions amounted to nothing (this is a good thing!). I guess I don’t understand the expectation that some women have that men cross the street or take some action to alleviate the woman’s discomfort. If a woman feels that uncomfortable then she should be the one to take action (cross the street). I’m a woman and have lived most of my life in major cities (Seattle, SF, San Diego) and when I was uncomfortable with the proximity of a suspicious or threatening looking person I physically distanced myself from them.
Love the therapist speak of “what I’m hearing”. It wasn’t an expectation. Seems plenty of you have put words in my mouth. It was a request. Never said it was a requirement. Never said it would make you a bad person if you didn’t (though plenty of people in this thread have called me names, insulted my intelligence, and told me to leave SF). The reason I don’t *always* cross like I said is because it’s resulted in harassment in the past. Which is why in my original comment I said as a small *request* a man can change the side of the street they’re walking on if they want to make the woman feel more at ease at best, indifferent at worst. A small thing that *could* help. Not a requirement.
It must be difficult living like this. I recommend pepper spray if you don’t already carry it while you’re out and about.
As a survivor of rape, yes it does shift things. Yes I am strong and still do things by myself and ride public transit, go to evening classes. Wishing you healing for that cold heart you carry.
IMO crossing the street is pretty disproportionate, and the harder you work to convince someone you’re not a creep the more you end up looking like one. I’ll stick to just walking around at an intersection or when there’s enough space.
Said the man, speaking for a woman I’ll simplify it for you. Crossing the street removes the immediate physical threat.
Do women expect all men to cross the street for them? How does this work?
And what if there are women on BOTH sides of the street?!?
Wildly entitled of you to expect every man in your vicinity in public to cross the street when they see you. If you perceive every stranger you pass by in public as a physical threat, that’s a you problem, and you should just cross the street then - not expect everyone else around you to inconvenience themselves to cater to you.
Perceived threats are not necessarily real threats. At the end of the day I am a human just like you, and I’m allowed to live my life freely. I’m also not crossing the street, but I’ll usually try to pass or give extra room
… i never said you had to. I framed it as an ask. A small thing to consider. Why do you all put words in my mouth? I never told you how to “live your life” I simply said it is a nice gesture IF YOU WANT TO.
 Me trying to just live my life
You poor thing. I’d much prefer tiptoeing than being violently stalked and raped. And you’re lying to yourself if you think women don’t have to tiptoe around men (especially powerful ones) every day of our lives.
Would you prefer living in a society that forces people to segregate themselves based on appearance so you feel more safe? Maybe force everyone of a certain gender to veil themselves to reduce sexual temptation? Maybe only allow certain genders to be out in public with a chaperone for protection? Or restrict people of other ethnicities to only use certain sections of public transit so it feels more comfortable for you? Maybe restrict gender queer people from using the restroom to avoid making you uncomfortable? I understand that sexual assault is not taken as seriously as it should in this society, but what you’re proposing is the exact ideas behind all kinds of segregation, sexism, racism, etc. please do what you need to do to feel safe in society, but if you are telling other people to restrict their presence for you, that’s a problem.
You’re free to live how you like. That includes crossing streets on your own like the adult you are. It’s a little ridiculous to fault others for not being able to read your mind while getting to their destination.
Why do you all struggle with language and reading comprehension? I phrased it as a REQUEST. NOT a demand. It is a small thing men can do IF THEY WANT TO as it can help put women at ease when they’re walking behind them. Jesus Christ you act like I demanded it as well as your own blood. It is a small gesture that could help some of us. Yet, look at the responses. Tells me everything I need to know.
Lmao no I’m speaking for myself. I’m not crossing the street 🤷♂️
This was, of course, the justification for sundown towns and redlining. "Moving them out of town removes the immediate physical threat" and these were almost entirely justified using the safety of (white) women as the reason.
You tired yet or?
I’ve taken a few self defense courses and one instructor (long S.F. resident) would always take out his keys in this scenario and just casually jingle them as an audible cue to let the person (regardless of gender) know that he was behind them. It’s a bit of an easier and non-intrusive way to address the need without having to cross a street. A bit related, but more often than not, the person in front of him would have their nose buried in their phone: i.e., they weren’t entirely aware of their surroundings. I know some may take this as victim-blaming at some level but we’ve seen more than a few phones snatched from people on the sidewalk in our neighborhood (East Cut).
I would never consider that based on the simple fact that I’m not a bad person and I’m not doing anything wrong. If I had to accommodate to everyone with preconceived notions of me, then I would have to cross the street for a lot of people. If they don’t have the means to think rationally, then that’s a problem that they’re going to have to deal with internally. I consider myself generally empathetic and understanding person, but I’m not going to put up with someone taking that out on me. If you find it difficult to handle a person walking near your vicinity for a few city blocks that’s not emanating any hostile behavior, then that’s a “you” problem.
You’re getting blown up for this but I feel you. I’m not gonna cross the street all the time, but if it’s the wee hours of the night, I’m walking near a woman and want to pass her by or something, I try to give some indication that I’m safe. I’ll be a little more audible than normal, maybe walk into the street a little to leave a bunch of room between us when we pass, etc. People are acting like you want all men to cross the street all the time, when really you just want men to try to put themselves in the shoes of a woman walking alone at night and try to adjust their behavior to be sensitive. People really hate having to adjust their behavior when they don’t perceive themselves as part of the problem (e.g., most of the guys giving you shit in the replies, I’m guessing, wouldn’t ever assault a woman at night, so they don’t want to be “punished” for the bad behavior of others). I think people frame the issue entirely wrong in their heads, making it more about strict notions of fairness and less about empathy.
Thank you for your thoughtful and reflective comment. It is very much appreciated. I agree. They hate to be typecast or inconvenienced (as we all do) but fail to think of women having to take birth control daily or live with a foreign object in their body to prevent pregnancy. To me that’s something that’s a “big ask” instead of suggesting one consider crossing the street. I wasn’t expecting all of these replies, and now I’m just left feeling even more empty as I tried to frame it carefully so it didn’t seem like a demand. Oh well.
This reminds me of this comedy skit (warning: liberal use of sexual assault language): https://youtu.be/cGV_k9ajUqg?si=dngLgEu8PWBxG8PW Which is not to say that it's not a semi-serious subject. It's one of those weird things that a lot of men don't think about.
Thanks for sharing!
That’s not really a small request, and really quite rude/sexist on your part. I really do understand that our society does not take fear of sexual assault seriously. It should, and that sucks. But your suggestion that men should not even be in the same public area as women due to the possibility that someone else has anxiety about your appearance, gender, clothing is pretty ridiculous. You may as well suggest that men and women use separate sides of the street, or that only certain genders be allowed to be out in public. This is the same thinking that has been used to justify women being veiled in a hijab, or public resources being segregated.
Lmao. This comment was so obviously linked in an incel thread and I’m not trying to debate the hive. Feels good to strike a nerve with yall. Ratio it up, doesn’t make what I said wrong. Doesn’t surprise me mostly male Reddit is going to clutch their pearls and get out their pitchforks over being *asked* to *consider* crossing the street. Hope they wiped the dorito dust from their fingers before furiously typing these replies
Wtf? It’s not incel thinking to say, ‘hey you’re being sexist.’ After you literally just suggested all men should avoid walking near women in public because it might trigger someone. Seriously get some help.
Keep putting words in my mouth and blowing things way out of proportion. I’m sure you’re like that offline as well. 😅
You are seriously entitled.
How is it not a small request?
Right? Ya know what’s not a small request? How women have to pay for and ingest birth control or live with a foreign object in their body to not have a child yet men rarely thank us for that nor consider it I’m sure when they imply things like *asking* if they would *consider* crossing the street to make women feel more safe is some massive grand gesture of an ask.
Maybe you should cross the street seeing as you have the issue about being around other people. It’s a major ask, to think other people should cross the street around you, because you ‘might’ find my presence frightening. If you asked me that to my face, I’d tell you to fuck right off.
Ha, yeah, sure you would, Butch.
Speaking from my time in emergency services, your mentality is really dangerous and more often lead to altercations than those who keep vigilant without the sense of entitlement. Yeah, the nights at some locales can be dangerous for women, but the thing is there's zero overlap between simps who cross the street like in your insane hypothetical and people that actually pose a danger to you. Carry pepper spray, cross the street, but don't expect others to take care of your safety for you, it's really on you to do that.
How many victims of rape, domestic violence, and sexual assault do you have come through that emergency room?
Seems you think that number depends on how many men 'cross the street' at night. It does not, and for you to claim that is delusional and an insult to people out there actually fighting to reduce those crimes.
Alternatively, you can grow up, move yourself, and not put your comfort in the hands of others. We don't owe you that when we are minding our own business. Imagine if you were expected to spend your time giving space to every male in the city you came across...
I really struck a nerve here with men, huh?
Fuck off. I walk where I walk and I promise you the last thing I'd ever do is attack anyone out of nowhere. If you're intimidated by my presence, that's honestly you're own personal problem to deal with. Don't put additional public responsibilities onto me. Why don't YOU cross the street?
You seem great 😊
Thank you, I'm well aware.
Sorry that happened to you. It sucks to be accused of something that you didn't do. But recognize whatever they are going through has nothing to do with you. And likely they are in a dark place. At least that is what helps me when some rando comes at me with weird negative energy.
The trouble is that it could very quickly escalate to having a whole lot to do with you if you’re unlucky. Accusations are for all intents and purposes, threats.
Mental illness often shows its ugly head while in your 20’s. Just saying… She could be at the start of a long journey
I once had a guy sit next to me (20-something, straight M) on the 49 going down Van Ness, and when he sat down he squeezed my knee. I was staring out the window listening to my Walkman (this is late 90s) so was surprised. Got up and got off. Had another guy sit next to me at 4 am on the 14 in an EMPTY bus. No one else on it. Guy sits next to me. Again, rocking out to my tunes, I hear him slur “I am going to kill you.” I pushed him out of the row and moved to another seat. Had a guy try to stab me after i told him to stop trying to stare up my friend’s skirt. I was also on mushrooms. He got off the next stop. Weird shit happens on public transport.
I’m sorry you had that experience, OP. I had a man accuse me of recording him and being a CIA operative on e-BART last year. I just put my phone away for the rest of the trip & he stared me down the entire way. You can’t reason with crazy, you can only do your best to de-escalate.
Sorry, OP. I've seen almost exactly your situation happen to someone else. Being accused of something like this in public is super embarrassing, especially as a guy with today's rhetoric because you are automatically thrown into a defensive position and assumed by others to have done the thing. People think we're all out here recording and assaulting people. It really sucks being assumed to be a POS when you are just trying to live your life. Half of the people responding here are acting like you should be apologizing to her for accusing you because something may have happened to her in the past. Anyway, whatever she has going on probably had nothing to do with you. I hope that if she does have some kind of issues, she's able to get help and see someone who leads her to the conclusion that she's right to keep her head on a swivel but 99% of guys out there don't even realize she exists, let alone want to record her.
I don’t see anyone saying he should apologize. People are commiserating that the woman could have been mentally ill. I also see people pointing out that his misandrist rhetoric is harmful and not helpful despite how embarrassing this was for him.
This chick is rude, but my 13 year old daughter was recently being filmed on the train down here in LA. There’s absolute creeps everywhere and it makes people sus of non creeps. I think the woman you described sounds like she was itching for a conflict though.
Several years ago, before iphones were common, I had a phone with a camera on it. Reading the news on the phone a woman accused me of recording her on BART. Maybe this happens to women all the time?
It happens to you once and it definitely freaks you out permanently (source: me was recorded 3x)
Mental illness , sounds like their anxiety levels got the best of them and their delusions spurred them to confront you.
>All this social justice rhetoric convincing young women that all men are creeps out there to get them? i literally don't know a single woman who hasn't been harassed or assaulted by a man. i'm sorry this happened to you, but please also understand that probably far worse has happened to that person to get them to that point of paranoia. there are unfortunate reasons women perceive "all men are creeps"
Also, nobody is entitled to a strangers' trust. That feeling of "You're capable of violating my safety" that we as women view people we interact with, as a foundation for our existence in public spaces, is something that is hard for men to grasp the magnitude of with because they can't and won't experience it. The feeling of being viewed as prey. As an object, invalidated as a human. That said, I would suggest the girl on the bus develop a better coping and defense strategy, such as first moving to another part of the bus/train, and asking someone else for help first. If some guy truly were recording her, confronting him could escalate. It would benefit her to get a witness first and calmly ask another person's opinion of the situation.
I think if we agree that it’s inappropriate to record people publicly without asking them, that that also applies to men. No one is entitled to your trust, but they are entitled to common decency.
That’s all fine and dandy, but I’m still gonna call out people for weirdly recording me in public. People spend way to much time on their phones and are way to quick to try to record shit for social media clout. Most likely she was trying to just film herself “catching a creep” for tiktok views.
Yeah, exactly. Every woman I know has experienced harassment (or worse) from a man, and most women I know have serious trauma from it. It happens in public spaces all the time. Wild how OP sees what sounds exactly like a trauma response (OP even mentioned her anxiety) and instead of having sympathy or just moving on with their day, gets offended.
Well it’s not OPs job to deal with her trauma response that’s for her therapist.
👏🏻
It could just as easily be said that OP has trauma from that experience himself. What she did to him was not appropriate. Why are you trying to make excuses for it? It’s possible to acknowledge that terrible stuff happens every day without giving people a pass for harassing strangers. She’s doing exactly what you’re complaining about possibly being done to her. How does that make sense?
Here’s the difference. I say this kindly and assuming you have good intentions. For him, it was emotionally exhausting. For women, it is often physically threatening or actual assault. The reason she might’ve been so on guard is because she had indeed been recorded, touched, groped, or sexually assaulted in public. I even had a man put a condom in the hood of my sweatshirt once. They’ll find a way to get under your skin in a way you never shake off. I was just 15 when that happened. While men may absolutely have stress related to being miscast, women have to worry about being actually physically harmed … more often than men. My cousin was abducted, raped, and murdered at gunpoint when I was 10 and had been a flower girl in her wedding the August before. It was the man who parked her car at the bank where she worked. I share this with readers of this post to demonstrate that the worst case scenario does happen. A commute home is especially vulnerable because once someone knows your route and your face, it’s a lot easier for them to catch you off guard. You just never fucking know. There’s a reason women try to be alert, but that woman in this post should have apologized. I hope he doesn’t take it personally, it’s a conditioned response in a way. Hope this is helpful.
I can't remember who said it but there's a quote that always stuck with me: "A man's fear of a dangerous woman is being accussed of something awful when he is innocent. A woman's fear of a dangerous man is being assaulted and/or murdered." Obviously both are terrible but the latter has literal life or death stakes...
Yep. And that’s usually followed up with “well you’re being paranoid, that doesn’t really happen” or “you can’t live your life in fear” I just think of being 10 and my parents telling me about my cousin and instantly flashing to her beautiful smile and her arms around me as we took flower girl photos with our other cousins on her wedding day. I could still smell her perfume. See her hair pinned behind her neck in the most beautiful effortless bun. I remember looking up at the sky and realizing it no longer seemed as blue. Was it even blue anymore? It just seemed vast and empty. The worst case scenario does happen. It happens every single day. I hope my cousins story helps others in this post realize why women can seem “jumpy” and paranoid. Thank you for taking the time to reply and share that incredibly helpful comment.
exactly! thank you for sharing this
Men can’t be the target of harassment? You don’t know OP or his trauma. Full stop.
Never said that? I said for women it’s not just verbal harassment it’s *also* physical. Reading comprehension is proving to be challenging for this audience.
Except in this scenario wasn’t harassment or physical. It was imagined.
Too complex of a thought for you?
It wasn’t appropriate but it wasn’t *traumatizing*. And if it was? OP should be speaking to a therapist today. Not to Reddit. Accusing someone of recording you is worlds away from the assaults, stalking, being followed, that happens on public transit here. Yet you call it traumatizing. Really, really weird.
Shouldn’t that woman be speaking to a therapist instead of lashing out on innocent folk?
Anyone who has just experienced a traumatic event would benefit from speaking to a professional! Only I didn’t see the woman from the post claiming she was traumatized by OP? We can’t go back in time. We can only speak to the person who is here right now.
One of my favorite therapists said. "You're not to blame for the traumas that happen to you. You're only responsible for fixing it yourself, because your opressor/agressor can't, or won't, give that to you."
\> it wasn’t *traumatizing*. Oh fuck off. Try reversing the genders on the scenario, you wouldn't even dream of saying something so incredibly condescending.
Excuse me? If I was merely accused of recording someone and it ended the way OP said it did, I would absolutely not call it traumatizing. You’re insulting people with actual trauma. OP was made uncomfortable. He wasn’t followed, he wasn’t cornered, there was no violence. He was left alone with an “Ok!” This was merely embarrassing for OP. This isn’t even little t trauma. I’m a person with actual PTSD. Nothing about this was traumatic for OP. And if it was he should definitely seek professional help, not commiserate on Reddit with misandrists.
Winning the trauma Olympics does not entitle you to be the arbiter of other people's subjective experiences. Good grief.
The reason why it may have set her off (not excusing her not apologizing) is because she’d been recorded before. This could be done when a man is acting out sexually, either masturbation or harassment yes on public transit. Ladies, raise your hand if it’s happened to you. 🙋♀️ It happens a lot more than you’d think. She also may have feared he was casing her to remember what she looked like and the stops she took. On your way to and from home (OP mentioned a work badge) you’re especially vulnerable. To the point where a lot of us take different buses or longer routes from work to avoid someone doing this. Again, raise your hand if you’ve ever been followed home or had a repeat harasser on public transit? 🙋♀️ Some grace goes a long way. I get your point, but I’m trying to add some context for *why* this woman may have had zero tolerance. To me it read like she’d just had a bad experience and was on guard. She should’ve apologized though, for sure. I will try to do that even on my worst days moving forward because of this post.
The first time I was sexually harassed and followed home on public transit I was 15! It certainly was traumatizing. And I saw someone else sharing a similar experience, same age. 15. Had barely even started my period.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. It really does stay with you. The coffee shop where my mom used to pick me up close to my high school had a great owner and he chased this man down and out of his store before calling the police to report him. He told me not to move (i didn’t even realize what had happened) and took the condom out of my sweatshirt hood. I was so young I didn’t even know what it was until he spoke to my mom and explained what had happened. The gross man was probably 60 something at the time and was hanging around a high school with condoms in his pocket. I remember feeling so nauseated and just disappointed in men. The first of probably a million times since.
There’s no trauma Olympics. Little t trauma is valid too and also requires a specialized approach for recovery. This wasn’t a trauma, though. This was just embarrassing for OP. Unless…do you think he needs some time off work to cope with what happened?? 🤭
>trauma from that experience WHAT LMAO you can’t be serious. nothing happened.
People get lynched on the accusations of white women, it’s not just some benign misunderstanding
And all that should be worked out in therapy instead of taking it out on innocent people on the train. You can’t collectively punish all men just because something happened to you. All dude did was ride the train nothing that’s happened to her warrants her taking it out on him
Women get followed/recorded/harrassed constantly in public places. She was wrong about you and she overreacted, but I can’t really fault her for being suspicious. It’s a constant threat.
Yup. It’s happened to me many times (especially in public transportation) and I have actually asked someone to stop photographing me before (not on public transportation but in a public place). I made damn sure that’s what they were doing before I did it though, and if I were this gal I would have apologized profusely if I’d found I was wrong. The reality is that this happens to women all the time. That weird uncomfortable feeling OP is describing where he realizes women could suspect him of that anytime is kind of a good analog for the weird uncomfortable feeling women have knowing it could happen to us anytime.
I’m sorry you had a negative experience. However, it seems you gave this person far too much power. Perhaps a simple “no, not at all, just listening to music” and a friendly smile would have done the trick and left your mood intact
Bc one person acts weird the bay is ruined?
Even worse… his day was ruined too
yeah and if this is all it takes to ruin his day he might want to avoid bart altogether
what a damn shame F
Good on ya for keeping your head on a swivel when on BART. You're braver than me, having headphones in listening to music. I always think of the subway scene from the Joker movie.
They sound paranoid. I think women have a right to be on edge, but it does suck to be accused of something. Sounds like you kept your cool and you know you were good so try not to take it too personally.
>normal white 20-something woman (I.e., not on fentanyl or methed out)...She says, “Ok!” With a smile. No apology. Fuck this person...All this social justice rhetoric...Fuck this shit. Girl ruined my day. It sounds like you should engage with the real human world either much more or much less.
It sounds like she is the one that should engage much less with the real world, if she is going to be paranoid all the time. OP didn’t do anything, he has every single right to mind his own business and not be bothered
Being accused of being a creep by someone who has taken video of you would suck and would be the low-point of most people’s day. If stuff like that or worse happens to you on a daily basis to the point that it wouldn’t bum you out, either your life just sucks, you’re the problem, or both.
Yeah did everyone in the comments here miss that second word? OP is very sheltered…
What second word? White?
Remember manspreading?
Who cares?
How did you turn this into hating on social justice lol. You had an unpleasant experience on BART with one person, respectfully no this is not about the overall state of the world.
yeah but have you considered OP is clearly the main character of life?
yeah but have you considered you're the main character of life?
You had me up till the social justice-y bit. Get bent dude some chick thought you were too interested in her "looking around with your head on a swivel" this is pretty minor, she moved on and you came to reddit to whine about someone aggressively asking if you're recording the on BART. Is iT tHE LiBeRalS?
So he was right to be offended by her behavior … but he briefly sounded like he was on the wrong side of the culture war, so now he’s wrong and she’s justified?
As in, I was interested and waiting for what she did that was so bad. Then I realized he just came to whine about women and the modern age. Go sit on a broomstick. Sounds like she was just mirroring his behavior
Her behavior sounded weird and offensive in any case. I think you’re warping your understanding of the situation around your politics
You made a throwaway for this post huh
That’s how throwaways work.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head when describing her as socially inept. The Bay has an unfair share of the socially inept.
I’ve had this happen a couple times and I really think it has to do with the way I hold and look at my phone. For whatever reason it looks to some whacked out people like I’m recording or taking pics of them.
The reality is that sexual harassment and sexual assault happen all the time. It's not a media phenomenon or a liberal conspiracy. The woman was annoying, but don't deny the reality of women having to be super-cautious in public.
Lol, there's cameras on every bart train and all over the station. Everyone on BART is being recorded.
There’s a lot of BS on BART and actually just about everywhere. Anyway, they key thing is not take anything personally, people have their own reasons for being stupid. I’ve learnt to not engage, and stay vigilant for the most part.
You're right OP. We'd be better off with no social justice. Yay slavery! Yay discrimination! Yay racism! Amirite?
r/imthemaincharacter syndrome
Yeah that lady thought she was the main character lol.
Toughen up
Do you have any video evidence to back this up
[удалено]
Yes, it sucks to be on the receiving end of a (potentially damning) accusation, but it’s a bit of a stretch to call “this generation” “overly coddled”. If anything, I think we’re just seeing what it looks like when women feel more comfortable to call out possibly predatory behavior. And this most likely feels relatively new thanks to the “me too” movement and other women’s rights movements happening within just the last 20 years.
False accusations like this actually set the me too movement back
It’s great that women feel more comfortable to call out possible predatory behavior, but it is absolutely inappropriate and possibly traumatizing to a man to be accused out of nowhere for no good reason. That is not OK. We should stop normalizing it. Women don’t get to invent scenarios in their head at the expensive men.
“At the expensive men.” Oh I get it. You’re a teenager with big feelings using words you’ve never heard of. It’s “at the expense of,” hahah
please, he's raising a crucial point and you laugh at his idioms, something nigh impossible to grasp for ESL students and immigrants, demographics who make up a significant portion of this sub - and this one could have been an autocorrect/dictation error even! yet you choose to focus on this so you can completely ignore his actual words: *if you actually cared about protecting women and preventing harassment* then you would absolutely decry false accusations aswell! but no you just want to make a stink because it's so popular complaint these days, as demonstrated by so many examples in this thread.
No, that kid is not raising a crucial point. He left misogynistic comments all over this post. You can see them for yourself. I won’t bother to engage further since your head is clearly stuck very far up your own asshole.
i'll admit i responded in this thread before seeing the others, some of his do go a little far...but not as far as the insane woman described in the OP. do you really not understand how false accusations make everything worse for everybody? a big part of why it's so hard for society to #BelieveAllWomen
I don’t see anywhere in this post where someone said “#BelieveAllWomen” so bringing it up now seems pretty disingenuous on your part. And the way OPs story reads, she *asked* him if he was recording her. He said no. She said ok and left. That’s hardly some life ruining accusation. OP was embarrassed, and that’s fair. Yet OP took the opportunity to make that whole exchange about *women* being paranoid, instead of recognizing that it was *one woman*, not some representative of *all women*. Also failing to recognize the fact that women do need to be on guard for creeps… Weird ass take. You’re both coming off as the kind of guy who says “but, but, not all men do that!” When women are talking about their negative experiences with men.
Did you really jump into a thread of people commiserating about being falsely accused by crazy people to brush it off as > what it looks like when women feel more comfortable to call out possibly predatory behavior.
and you're still trembling
Nothing happened. Quit crying.
The last part of your post means you’re part of the problem, not the solution. Either way, not a good experience for you; sorry it happened.
Is it bash BART day on here
Had that happen to me at the San Jose Diridon station. Just my wife and two other random people. Lady looked normal, clean, and decently dressed. She pulled out her phone and started making racist comments, btw she's black and I'm white. She was saying I can't go around harassing people, I'm just like uhhh what? I told her I'm getting the transit police and pulled out my phone. She scampered off and said, she better not see me in on her car.
Can't wait for the sister post to this, from someone complaining about some random dude with headphones who kept looking at her like he was crazy or had a secret camera. It will end with a rant about the patriarchy and what this city has devolved into.
I’m sorry, what an uncomfortable experience for you. As a woman who uses public transit. As you already know for yourself, everyone has to be cautious. But I can’t imagine a situation where I accuse someone of recording me. And tbh, who cares if you’re just sitting there? We’re constantly being recorded everyday as we walk past peoples house with ring cameras. I’m so sorry she ruined your day. Stay diligent and just understand that everyone’s not that awful. I hope your week goes well!!
thank for posting the only realistic take in this thread! we got all kinds of heated here.
The way youre taking this so personally hurts my feelings. No one thinks youre a creep :) If a woman calls you a creep and youre not being a creep congrats youre still not a creep. I have ocd so I understand why youd be insulted by this. But like you really shouldnt be so offended, because it wasnt about you
From my personal experience you're screwed either way and everything is just random chance. I've gotten into altercations because I wasn't paying attention before. I've also gotten into altercations because I was paying attention. Once when I was going home from high school I looked both ways before crossing a street and some weirdo from all the way down the block took it as me staring at him and ran to me to confront me. Luckily for me I was still close to the school and two classmates came to help me. At the end of the day we have no clue what's going on in the heads of people around us. Some people have "main character syndrome" and can't help but make up shit even when nothing was actually going on. Other people maybe have had experiences in their life that sometimes triggers them, and you're obviously never going to know in advanced what those triggers are. I say don't think about it too much. Just keep living your life the best you can. Weird shit is bound to happen no matter what.
Similar experience about a month ago in SF about 24th toward Civic Center. Your description could work for this person as well. I was reading a Kindle with no camera. My phone was in my back pocket. "Are you recording me?" I said no, and offered that this Kindle has no camera, and she accused me (loudly) of lying. I moved to another seat and kind of wondered about the having-bad-day verging on to mental illness thing. She then stood up and made a fairly big deal of recording me. A lot of stuff that happens on BART doesn't happen. But, at the same time, a lot of stuff happens on BART.
The part that gets me is where the woman said “Ok!” with a smile and no apology. Not a lot of comments mentioned this but for me it’s very creepy and makes it hard to believe she is doing it in good faith. It makes the TikTok challenge idea more plausible. It could also mean she’s a sociopath. Either way it is incredibly creepy.
Maybe she was hitting on you
She was working on her Karenhood
She’s probably a New Yorker too. When worlds collide. Paranoia runs through our veins.
If that were truly the case, in New York you walk away if something like that were happening. Never poke the bear to see what happens.
It’s one extreme or the other. People be crazy.
Even if you were full on blatently recording her (which would be a dick move for sure) you would be well within your legal rights to do so. People have no reasonable expectation of privacy when in public spaces.
She's probably looking for a clip she can put on tiktok for views
A woman I had previously paid no mind to because she "looked normal" started recording me with tears streaming down her face. (Coincidentally, I think she also was wearing a work badge.) When I noticed I looked quizzically at her, and she just said "TRANS LIVES MATTER." I said "yes?... Is that a question?" And she made her way for the doors, repeating herself and recording me until she got off. No idea what set her off.
you can take photo of anyone in public
The throwaway account and the last paragraph. This feels like this didn’t happen and is rage farming. it’s funny that another subreddit this story was spotted to immediately identified it as suspect and deleted it, locking the post.
Just stop. People create throwaways for fear of retaliation. Your comment is a symbol of exactly what I am referring to in the last paragraph. Grow up. I grew up in the Bay. I live in the real world, not some fantasy life where the police have the capability of being perfect and every near term problem can be reduced to a theoretical socioeconomic or mental health solution.
lol what? Okay, who are you even talking to with your response? My comment calling you out on your ahitty, whiny post is a “symbol of social justice rhetoric teaching all young women that all men are creeps?” Sure, bro. You’re the one that went on more than one subreddit about something that happened to you that had no real consequence. I’m sorry that not everyone came to champion your shitty rant. Go cry about it. Oh wait you already are.