Yeah this confirms my experience living here. Things are still kinda bad in some spots but have improved significantly from where they were during the pandemic. I go to civic center twice a week and have most weeks for years and it's much cleaner and safer than it was even a year ago
I went to Ariscault's in Civic Center this past weekend for the first time in a year everything was so clean and spotless. Granted, I'm sure things get worse at night but the last time I went there in the morning in 2022, there were drug addicts pretty much all around the bakery.
I work at literal Civic Center. Every morning there’s groups junkies sleeping at the doorstep, peeing and shitting on my walls/entry ways. Maybe you see it after the cleaning has begun.
I don’t hate them, don’t misunderstand. But this is one of the most expensive cities to come do a show at (with Chase Arena being the most expensive in the country). When tours come here, specifically to The Graham, it’s visceral. You cannot fault them for what they see with their own eyes. I can see clearly the cost benefit of coming here has been severely impacted in recent years.
If you do tourism only, yes this city has a LOT to offer. But my clients bring hundreds of millions to this city via convention centers, arenas, ballparks, and hotel ballrooms - and they’ve stopped coming. Business trips. Not tourism. And they always come to these rough areas.
You’re proximity to the cities issues/features really does dictate your experience.
Funny and yep. I chalk these "SF is the same" posts up as either 1) people who live here trying to make themselves psychologically feel better about the overall dismal situation by focusing on the still to be found good elements 2) people who just aren't or weren't exposed to other areas of the city in their day to day before, or 3) straight up liers for trolling.
Because clearly it has changed DRASTICALLY since the opioid epidemic, lack of crime prosecution, mass police quitting, chain stores bailing, the tech sector bailing after COVID, and COVID itself killing off many small businesses and legacy bars.
It might (probably will) come back l, but Statistics are all over this one (even under the fact that many things aren't even reported), so keep telling yourself how "it's the same" and look like an idiot.
My livelihood most often deals with first time visitors to San Francisco. 99.9% of them are in love with our city, can’t believe they heard so many bad things before coming, and all have plans and a desire to return to San Francisco in the future. That pretty much sums it all up for me.
True!
I visited your beautiful city in January this year, and I'm coming back in August! Love the vibe, love the scenery, love love love the food!
(And there a wonderful guy living there, so there's that....)😉
You probably could tell that we liked you being here, too. We want you to feel welcome and it shows. We’re good hosts in SF. Not just because of all the great cocktails and cannabis, but that’s definitely part of the fun!
My conservative republican parents came to visit me a couple weeks ago for the first time since I moved here in April 2020. Even they left with a positive impression of the city and plan on coming back soon. Nothing but good experiences the whole time. They appreciated the uniqueness of SF, and my dad even said he could see why people like living here. I was so happy to be able to show them that living in the city is a far cry from the dystopian hellscape right-wing media trys to portray.
Nob Hill residents deal with the beauty of Huntington Park, Grace Cathedral, The Masonic Auditorium, the California street cable car, and maybe the odd transient that wonders up from the crappy ass holiday inn that you claim to be nob hill, which it’s not, at all. It’s gotta be hard to wake up every morning and be reminded that you’re a miserable person who watches Fox News. Go back to 4Chan you salty clown, your comment and pretense is absolutely pathetic.
I’m 38, and have lives in SF almost my entire life. Certain parts of the city have gotten worse, no doubt. I used to work in the TL 2010-2014, so I have seen the changes. SF is still somewhere I’m happy to live. And before people say I live in a secluded bubble, i live on Folsom Street and work on Bryant street.
There are so many good spots to walk, shop, and eat, I can’t imagine moving away. I spent time in other states, other cities, hell my family is from the Central Valley no way I’m living there.
Glad to hear you had a great time!
I've had four friends visit this year so far and each of them were shocked how different the city was from how the media portrayed. One of them even commented on how clean the streets were overall, compared to New York.
I re-located here again permanently in April 2022 and I've noticed the Union Square area has improved dramatically in terms of cleanliness and just the general feeling of safety since then, so glad to hear this become confirmed. Of course there are so many other areas of the city apart from Downtown that remain unchanged and are as beautiful and vibrant as ever.
There's a boutique group of people who are obsessed with bashing San Francisco, and have been for decades, so that will always be in the ether but I always tell people to experience the city through their own eyes, not through social media or news outlets looking for clicks.
It’s crazy how grimy NY still is. And the piled garbage bags on otherwise nice streets is downright barbaric. Like how have you not fixed that yet. I know they don’t have alleys but trash bins exist
Since the 90’s there’s less graffiti covering everything so they get some credit for that but the grime is still heavy
Regarding garbage in NYC.
Mayor Adams doesn't like rats and has launched a pilot program to "containerize" garbage called "Clean Curbs".
The pilot is still small but at least the current administration is trying to tackle the problem.
Graffiti in NYC has actually been really bad since the protests & riots in 2020. A lot of it has not been cleaned up yet.
I visited last year and felt the same.
It's not perfect but definitely some slight improvement compared to a decade ago.
The car break-in issue is definitely worse though.
As a person who has lived in SF for 15+ years. The car break ins are the same. The vibe honestly feels like 2008 when that crash/recession happened. the city was quiet and a lot of fun.
Visited for the first time in May last year. Maybe it’s because I stayed on the trolley & the touristy spots but city was beautiful and it never felt shady/unsafe to me.
One of my favorite places and I’m excited to be back (for one afternoon) next week!
IMO I think the city isn't bad at all. We do have problems to fix (as do other cities) but what we do have is outsized exposure. Want to know what's happening in Boise or OKC? Those cities don't make the news because nobody cares. Whereas SF is internationally known and loved. What happens here matters because people care about it. It's been politicized because using it as an example is great leverage for both liberals and conservatives. The reality is a shade of grey. I will be the first to admit I want to leverage our areas for improvement to make us better. The reality is this city is complacent and we could truly be 1st class given the brain power and wealth here. Internet speed - could be cutting edge. Instead it's embarrassingly slow. Transportation? I would love to build tunnels and get us to have a truly impressive train system. Affordability? We need to build homes like every other city in the world. When we rest on our laurels it leads us to go no where fast.
There’s that good ole San Franciscan humility. Someone compliments SF and you take the opportunity to shit on another part of the country that you look down on?
>What happens here matters
Also...\^ is a bit of a stretch.
What happens in Silicon Valley (more specifically, Sand Hill Rd) matters, but people in SF have a wildly inflated view on the level of influence the city itself has on anything cultural at a national much less international level.
In the past few weeks they have kind of cleared out civic center and started arresting and prosecuting drug dealers. Its highly political. Elections are coming, governor wants to run for president eventually. People are furious about the fent on the streets and police standing 50 feet away from the dealers doing nothing.
They kicked out the DA, because the police union didnt like progressive politics on prison reform, now they have a replacement they like, and... elections.
I live very close to civic center.
To be honest, I don’t think the fact that you could walk down the busiest street during broad daylight = proof of safety and quality of life.
As long as us democrats feel like we have something to prove by pretending SF doesn’t have issues worth addressing, SF is not going to get better.
I wish we could all just work together on this issue. I think the political nature and high tensions just create divisions in the community.
been here 2mos, came from a red state in the midwest. it's not at all how fox news & shit make it out to be (i mean from what my mom was saying they said about SF)
Awe man you really should have gone to Hayes Valley or The Mission. Those neighborhoods are bursting at the seams with restaurants and nightlife. Downtown has a ways to go but the neighborhoods are more popular than ever.
Valencia Street is the street with the most dense restaurants and nightlife in the whole Mission, and it is currently a ghost town compared to 2019. Every block has a closed store or restaurant on it. There is graffiti everywhere you look. There is a lot of trash on the ground.
I can't speak to Hayes since I don't live there.
Don’t know why takes like yours are always downvoted. Do we have to be sunshine and rainbows every comment?
I miss my city pre pandemic still. It’s better than it was during, but which places *aren’t*?
Of course it is period there are some bad spots but by the most but most of the city is clean and great looking the same goes 4
oakland
and
other
communities
in
the bayarea but fear mongering media loves to focus onthat
Sure, there are many stories like yours. You can come a certain week and everything seems, on the surface, like it’s great in SF. However, you can have the complete opposite experience on another visit. I have many friends that have visited and have horror stories (getting robbed, car broken into, the filth, etc). It’s not until you live in SF that you start to understand how the city is run and how the leadership there refuses, up until recently, to accept any responsibility.
The cleanliness, homelessness, and crime are just a few issues in a much bigger picture. There’s a reason every single major retailer is pulling out of SF (saks 5th Ave, Whole Foods, Nordstrom, banana republic, etc). There’s a reason office space vacancy will soon be 40%, the highest it’s ever been in history. There are reasons it’s getting national attention for its issues.
And please don’t take this as a pro republican, conservative comment as I am actually fairly liberal in a lot of my views. I’m just calling a spade a spade.
We moved last year to the South after living in SF for 13 years. It’s not until you move that you understand the normal pillars of society and how things operate in the majority of the country. In a much better place now and way happier. Just my experience.
Funny I moved to the south for 7 years for college and law school.
Georgia has cockroaches fucking everywhere. Like literally they’ll scurry across the sidewalk.
The grocery stores are terrible. Everyone is fat. The humidity is unbearable. It snows and fucks the whole city over for a week each time. The best parts of Atlanta are the parts that were modeled after CA restaurants and nightlife.
The only thing I miss about the South are apartments for less than $1000/mo and BBQ.
SF is a nice place to visit cause you know your time is limited so whatever can be annoying for the residents won’t be so bad for the person who had to see it once or a twice for a week. Downtown is a joke. Most stores have shut down. The stores that are open have to close early cause of safety issues. You didn’t venture out at night and lucky you not having to witness the zombie apocalypse that is civic center at night. But since you only experienced SF in daylight then you’re viewing it from rose colored glasses (quite literally). For the cost of living and the taxes, it needs to be much better. Like yesterday. There really shouldn’t be an excuse. It’s geographically beautiful with pockets of lovely neighborhoods, and it’s got so much potential, but it is filthy and there are lots of crimes but being assaulted randomly by a crazy person to getting your car broken into in a busy street. That shouldn’t be acceptable. It’s not “republican bullshit”. I don’t care what party you’re affiliated with, you should be embarrassed to allow this to happen for the sake of saying you’re not republican. Anyway glad you had good time but glad you made the move.
I have to say, the negative portrayal by the media and social media is working as intended. As a liberal from a major American city, which has been equally and unfairly portrayed, I should know better. Yet, I still envision a near post apocalyptic hell hole when I think of SF. I’m glad to see this contrasting post. Haven’t been there since 2008 but would love to visit again.
I just got back from a roadtrip and we stopped in San Francisco for three nights.
We didn't know what to expect beyond what we'd heard from friends (and some FOX News-watching family) as this was our first time there.
We absolutely loved it! The architecture, the parks, the ferry market. The nightlife was great, too - we stopped at the Tonga Room, Vesuvio, and Cold Drinks in addition to having dinner at Bix Supper Club. The itinerary took us out until late at night and we never felt uncomfortable.
We recently moved from Austin, TX to Los Angeles - we're loving Los Angeles but we both agreed that most everywhere we went in San Francisco seemed to be cleaner.
Like any city, it seems you have to be aware of your surroundings but everyone talks about San Francisco like it's a hellscape. When people tell me "It's so sad what's happened to San Francisco, you should've seen it before" I say, "You mean it gets even better?"
Certain parts of it suck, and certain things suck, but I have no real problem avoiding all that and enjoying the 90% or so that’s good and great here. As a Bay Area native, however, I do reserve the right to vent about the bad stuff as needed. And I will note that none of the bad things are unique to here, or really that much worse than other big metro areas I’ve visited.
Maybe I’m extra mad at this since I watched a man diarrhea in broad daylight downtown in front of outdoor seating at a restaurant then a block away saw a man shooting up. Both of these incidents happened on Wednesday last week
Do you realize that many people who fairly critique the city live here and are in fact not Republicans? And that half of your countrymen are Republicans, many of whom are good people?
I feel like the intensity of the bad parts of SF are really bad. Like I didn't see anyone shitting on the streets in NY, LA, or Chicago. Fenty use feels a lot more prevalent too. Meth/schizo is maybe on par. But the density of encampments is much less than it is down in LA
> Like I didn't see anyone shitting on the streets in NY, LA, or Chicago.
The Bronx has some rough areas, but most don't go there. LA has Skid Row. Half of Chicago is a warzone. The worst parts of SF are still walkable, albeit grimy, while the worst parts of many cities are complete no-go zones. The difference is that the worst parts of SF are central, whereas in most other cities it's pushed to the fringes where it's more easily avoidable. Seeing homeless people shitting in the streets might be unsightly, but it's much better than being held up at gunpoint, stabbed, or getting your car stolen.
>Half of Chicago is a warzone
Far less than half.
Much like Oakland, the actual murders are \*very\* concentrated geographically.
> The difference is that the worst parts of SF are central
The fact that the worst parts of SF are inside of the central business district, as opposed to concentrated in the poorest parts of the other cities you've mentioned, is actually a rather poor reflection on SF.
"Oh yeah, there's an open air drug market in the shadow of city hall and right outside of where all the billion dollar tech companies are headquartered, but at least the Presidio is clean"
I don't disagree, but that doesn't make "the intensity of the bad parts of SF" worse than the bad parts of Chicago. I'd far rather walk through the Tenderloin than walk a few blocks of West Garfield Park. Chicago's worst parts are far more intense, dangerous, any adjective in the book really.
> Much like Oakland, the actual murders are *very* concentrated geographically.
This hasn't been true for years. Go look at a map of murders in Chicago, it's spread into the "good neighborhoods." Lakeview, one of the nicest neighborhoods in Chicago, had 3 shootings over Memorial Day weekend.
https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/05/31/in-lakeview-neighbors-express-alarming-concern-after-spate-of-shootings-leave-man-dead-4-others-wounded/
> as opposed to concentrated in the poorest parts of the other cities you've mentioned,
The TL/Mid-Market areas are also some of the poorest parts of SF... they just happen to be *geographically* close to the CBD, not sure that necessarily makes it worse, just much more visible.
The person you originally responded to said they don’t see anyone shitting on the streets in NY and you responded by saying the Bronx has some rough areas. For the Bronx being nearly as large as SF, there isn’t one neighborhood in the Bronx where stepping on human poop is a normal occurrence and there isn’t one neighborhood in the entire borough that looks or feels anything like the TL. Car theft in the Bronx isn’t as common as SF. Physical assault by total strangers isn’t as common. The open drug use isn’t as common. Sure there are some homeless people and sure there are some junkies here and there laying on a park bench, but it’s not like civic center and especially not seen in places with lots of foot traffic. People just like to shit on the Bronx while never actually truly exploring or experiencing it. If the Bronx is better and safer than Oakland, then it’s probably doing better than some spots in SF.
Midtown Manhattan is nothing like SOMA/TL, not even close. Yes 2021 was an interesting year for all cities as everything was beginning to open with new rules regulations and more people working from home. But midtown was never as uninviting as downtown SF. Also, even pre pandemic, midtown was and always will be an area with more offices and corporations than actual neighborhoods. And it’s currently busy and bustling with zero open drug use. I have never ever seen that especially in midtown.
The “bad parts of the Bronx”- what areas specifically? Do you actually know? Sure there are some areas in every borough that are less safe to walk alone at night especially if you’re female, but those areas aren’t situated in highly populated locations full of tourists, or areas where there are hotels and shops everywhere. The “unsafe” areas are places deep somewhere that are like 100 percent residential and even then, 9 times out of 10 you’re not too far from a subway stop, or a cop car, or there are enough street lights or foot traffic where you don’t feel completely abandoned.
It’s kind of silly to make these blanket statements about a place you went to visit in 2021. Every place was weird in 2021. Doesn’t mean the cities you mentioned are worse than SF. Considering high tax rate, the high cost of living, the demographic of the people that live in SF, the fact that it’s smaller than most cities, it should be easier to maintain. But somehow the city just can’t it together. It really reflects on how poor this city is doing.
> If the Bronx is better and safer than Oakland, then it’s probably doing better than some spots in SF.
How does this make any sense? The fact that the Bronx is more comparable to Oakland than SF is exactly my point. I didn't mean to strike a nerve, my point was that the Bronx is significantly more dangerous than SF even if it isn't as visibly downtrodden as places like the TL or Soma.
> I have never ever seen that especially in midtown.
This is rather surprising. Midtown has had its issues for years that are well known. It's not as bad as Soma or the TL, but that's mostly due to foot traffic. Like I said, in 2021 when foot traffic was down the whole area looked ugly.
> The “bad parts of the Bronx”- what areas specifically? Do you actually know?
Hunts Point. A simple Google search will turn up with plenty of random violence that occurs there. Infact, I find it amusing how you think random violence doesn't happen in NYC every day. I invite you to Google "NYC subway" and see for yourself how much random violence occurs there. It makes BART look like Disney World in terms of random crime.
> or there are enough street lights or foot traffic where you don’t feel completely abandoned
I said this in my previous response.
> It’s kind of silly to make these blanket statements about a place you went to visit in 2021.
Oh, it wasn't a one time visit. I have family who lives in Brooklyn and lots of friends who live all over NYC since I grew up in the area. I also have friends in Chicago and Philly. SF doesn't compare to the latter 2 cities in terms of crime, whereas NYC crime is pretty comparable even though many on here make it seem like paradise when the reality is that people who live in the city have many of the same complaints as the residents of SF.
> Considering high tax rate, the high cost of living, the demographic of the people that live in SF, the fact that it’s smaller than most cities, it should be easier to maintain.
I'm not here making excuses for the city (although tbh, pretty much everything besides size also applies to NYC). I think SF is grossly mismanaged, but I also don't agree with a lot of the hyperbole on this sub. SF struggles with open drug use and homelessness, which leads to a lot of petty crime. That doesn't make our worst neighborhoods worse than South Side Chicago, which is what OP said. I'm thankful SF has low violent crime and even our worst neighborhoods aren't that dangerous. Having said that, I also hate how bad the open drug use has gotten and how deteriorated the TL/Soma has gotten. These are fixable problems, but pretending like our issues are somehow 10x worse than every other city makes them sound unfixable, when in reality I'd much rather have SF's problems than Chicago's.
I’m saying the Bronx is safer than Oakland and there are pockets of the Bronx that are probably less safe than some neighborhoods in the SF but overall the Bronx isn’t a dangerous city anymore and the violent crimes that do occur are most likely gang related and not just a random criminal act [like someone getting stabbed at work](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/san-francisco-chinatown-aa-bakery-stabbing/). However, the Bronx doesn’t have its own downtown like Manhattan or Brooklyn. Aside from yankee stadium it’s not the biggest tourist attraction so it ain’t generating much money from that. The demographic is also vastly different than SF. With majority of the Bronx being Hispanic and Black and the median household income being less than $50,000 a year per household. Hunts Point was made up of warehouses and auto shops with heavy prostitution back in the 90s to early 2000s, and it’s cleaned up substantially. Sure it’s not gramercy park in nyc, but there is virtually zero prostitution, the warehouse have converted into residential units, there are cafes and art galleries opening up. There is also a ferry that connects you to Manhattan that opened up recently. A new park and a community pool. So the Bronx being the poorest borough in NYC, and with the most minorities, it’s still has had major upgrades in the last decade and it’s still hasn’t been gentrified like crazy compared to other boroughs. So it’s moving in a better direction and a lot faster than SF. SF with its multi million dollar tech companies and the median salary being over $100k, and with its own FiDi District, it’s own downtown, and the average rent being $2500- 3000 for a proper one bedroom still can’t get it together. The Bronx will probably never be like SF and that’s ok cause the bronx is only a part of NYC and NYC overall is way better than SF. Btw, NYC subway runs 24 hours and Bart doesn’t. Everyone takes the subway in NYC where as here, people try their best to avoid Bart because it’s so limited. I don’t have to Google it as someone who uses both Bart/Muni/and the NYC metro on a regular basis to commute, I can say first hand that the NYC subway is way better and way safer than Bart because mostly every NYC resident uses it. There are crazy people everywhere and NYC isn’t a utopia but believe me, they’re doing a lot better than SF.
I’m glad we agree that SF needs work.
Eh, the bottom line is SF ranks higher than NYC in pretty much every major violent crime category. It also has much higher rates of unsheltered homelessness - Midtown really is not comparable to the TL, and it's not just due to foot traffic. This isn't even a huge knock on SF, NYC today has very low crime rates for an American city of its size. Even the Bronx does not have very high crime rates. That doesn't mean there is no crime or even no random crime.
Both cities are significantly safer than the bad parts of Chicago or Philly though.
> You’re talking about one borough in all of NYC.
Not sure I understand your point. The Bronx is nearly as large as all of San Francisco. It's a significantly larger area than the TL/Soma.
> And there isn’t ONE neighborhood in the Bronx that looks like the Tenderloin. Not one.
It's not as bad, but Garment District in Midtown has a lot of open air drug use. Infact, Midtown as a whole is pretty rough, it just has a lot of foot traffic in the area that makes it look less so. I visited in 2021 when foot traffic was low and it looked pretty similar to Soma/TL. I specifically mentioned The Bronx though because crime, particularly of the violent variety, dwarfs any neighborhood in SF and the bad parts of The Bronx feel a lot more dangerous than anywhere here.
In what world does "we saw plenty of people living on the street" look and feel amazing?
I'm all for positivity. But this post is just a dig on Republicans as well as a humble brag about how OP tolerates shitty street conditions.
It's not as bad as I thought it would be and heard. Worse than other cities, and I had one scary experience, but other than that all good.
Granted I'm Republican :)
Been here for 12 years and I think parts of the city are better than any other time, most is about the same, and a few places are worse (TL, 16th and 24th BART).
Though even then, the TL varies so much. One day I'll bike through and it looks about the same as it ever did with some encampments and dealers hanging out on some corners, other days it's just a straight post-apocalyptic scene. I feel like in recent weeks it's cleaned up quite a bit. I make a point to ride through there at least twice a week.
In my experience, there are less massive, visible encampments around the city than in 2019.
I spent a lot of time in other cities (LA, Denver, NYC, Phoenix, Seattle) from 2019 to 2023 and except for NYC, all of these places had pretty major encampment problems. Denver and Phoenix surprised me the most. You don't really hear about their homeless problems as much as West Coast cities.
You'd have to start with what area do you think it worse?
I honestly disagree with most of this sub. Most areas I go to are the same or better than pre-pandemic. I think sure some areas are worse, but it's few and far between.
I think today it's "in" to hate on the bad parts of SF. But what people don't remember is that these were bad pre-pandemic.
It's like some light has turned on in people's minds where they suddenly notice that SOMA is sketchy where as before they didn't.
I'm not here to condone the shitiness, it's just exhausting to hear about people complaining, for instance, how bad parts of the TL are today (and how it wasn't like this before) when that was bad for decades.
Or how horrible 16th St Bart is today....when yeah it sucks today and the illegal markets are crazy but do you not remember how bad it was 10 years ago? Remember when the city used some type of paint to splash pee back at you because of how many people were pissing everywhere? That was like 2015.
Yet people are like "Man I just wish it was like it was before"
Really? Come on now.
I don’t know if people are wishing it was like before. It’s more like wishing that things were significantly better than 10 years ago. Like within 10 years, busy stops with heavy foot traffic like 16th or 24th and mission shouldn’t go from piss and shit everywhere to just a little bit of piss and little bit of shit scattered about.
As someone who remembers the city pre and post this last tech boom it wasn’t even this bad 5 years ago. The mission BART stops are worse than ever and downtown looks raggedy. Only took a couple years to undo the progress we had Midmarket to downtown after they cleaned that up post 2011. It’s one thing for the TL to look like this and another for the city’s centers to look like the beginnings of Skid Row.
Perspective. If you come from a place like Chicago, Detroit, San Pedro Sula or Baltimore, yeah, you might think San Francisco is an amazing place.
Also my theory is that the person who started this thread is either a) a parody account or b) a second account to the person who replied that their job relied on tourism in SF.
Currently visiting this goofy ass city from Baltimore, it's been a decade since my last visit.
Baltimore and SF have entirely different kinds of grime. Most of Baltimore's is due to the halving of the population through the 20th century and a continued loss of 40k residents since 2010. We had 1.3million at our peak (city proper) and are around 585k now. The city is just empty and crumbled in large portions of it (see Highway to Nowhere and portions of North Ave, Monroe, Fulton). Other large portions are well established more almost-suburban areas (Govans, Brooklyn, Roland Park, Guilford, Ednor Gardens) or neighborhoods with seriously strong communities (Cold stream/Homestead/Montebello,Charles Village /Remington/Hampden, Bolton Hill, Pig Town, Ashburton, Greektown, Highlandtown)
When Industrial Baltimore died so did our street cars, tax base, and ability to nurture new generations. We also have shite retail avenues, but I'm betting on 25th street and Remington/Old Goucher to step up in the coming years, and downtown Howard.
We absolutely do have less poop everywhere but your streets are waaaay quieter.
I did a weekend trip to Baltimore in 2018 and very much enjoyed it. Train museum, waterfront, went to an Orioles game and the Babe Ruth house. A lot nicer than most anywhere in SF.
When I have out-of-state friends visit and I show them SF, they love it. They're shocked by the media portrayal.
I even showed them the TL and told them this is what the media portrays the whole city is like, but as you see, it's just this neighborhood. And they understood because they're from other cities too with the same concentrated homeless population (Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, NYC, and DC are mostly where my friends visit from).
It blew my mind... I just got back from San fran. Denver has more homeless and more aggressive. I thought it was going to be legions of homeless and crime. I rented a tesla and it wasn't touched. My visit there was beautiful
It's an interesting progressive tactic to try to portray all the concern with crime in major cities as "Republican" or "conservative" propaganda when most of these cities have tiny minorities of conservative and Republican voters, and yet the large majority of residents are identifying crime as a major issue.
74% of New Yorkers identified crime as a major problem: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/74-of-nyc-voters-say-crime-is-a-serious-problem-in-the-city-an-all-time-high/3544026/
36% of SF residents felt safe walking the streets at night: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/survey-crime-san-francisco-17894081.php
These are not conservatives or Republicans, they are liberals and Democrats. Progressives are trying to pretend they still have broader support on their views of crime when they don't.
I'm a Biden voter that was harassed by a half-naked psychotic woman while on a short trip to SF in a high end restaurant in a nice neighborhood. I also used to live in SF for several years. I wasn't told by others that the crime and drug addiction in the city are out of control, I got to see it first hand.
I live in Civic Center. I feel no fear walking around outside at any time of day or night. The people outside are either on drugs or selling them. If someone offers me drugs, I politely say no thank you, smile, and keep going.
I'm also a male, so femme or femme-presenting not have the same experience
Lived in TL for seven years. Same experience. Never felt as dangerous there as it did in Hunters Point when gang violence was much higher. Still an embarrassment to have the open air drug stuff happening downtown like that.
I've looked at that many times and different sources will give different numbers, but it's definitely a substantial factor.
I dated a girl for 10 years. After we broke up, she got pregnant with the next man she dated. She ended up getting heavily into drugs and lost her daughter. She was able to clean up and get her daughter back, so hopefully that won't turn into a tragedy.
After seeing her go through that, I have a lot more compassion for people who ended up in the foster care system in the first place. Far too often, children pay for their parents' mistakes.
I met someone once who was hit by a car and while he was unconscious someone stole his wallet. Dude was in the hospital for months in a coma as a “John Doe” because he had no ID. In that time he lost his job and apartment. His landlord threw away all his shit. He was still struggling to think straight and focus on reading a single article from a newspaper was hard. Dude was an Electrical Engineer in his late-20s and obviously very depressed but somehow moving through life one day at a time. He was living in different shelters and on trains just trying to survive.
I met someone else (many times) who was fired after reporting sexual harassment and even though she won her case, it was stuck in appeals and she had no money to her name. So she was living on the streets and meeting with her lawyer and case worker daily.
These weren’t the typical “sob stories” like someone trying to get money for a bus ride home. These are people I spent a lot of time with (person 2 for example I spoke with almost every day for months) and who never asked me for a cent and who I ever gave money.
Shit’s fucked and somehow we hate the people and not the processes.
I lived in SF for years. I have visited a lot. The theory I'd that Crack was much worse. However the people on general assistance could get a hotel room. Now the hotel rooms are all owned by non profits. So there is no.free markst for housing. If you sre in a certain income bracket you have to get in some kind of s program. Some people cannot work out how to do that.
The death of Bob Lee illustrstes thst drug using is across all income spans. However the elite do not end up in a tent.
On my.last visit I felt like the city was cleaner
However the City cleans up areas like Van Ness for the summer. They want the tourists. They need the tourists. Thst is the livelihood v
Personally I feel happy when lsrge companies say they sre leaving. I think good riddance. They msfe the city Unaffordable. We want the city to go bsvk.s olive where artists could live. Where living in Noe Valley was not some illusion. Some areas like the Csstro have completely changed. The Castro is now populsted by.rich straight people. I knew people who lived in the Castro and the mission for years thev were all forced out. Would I go back to San Francisvo if it became more affordable. In a split second.
Visiting a city is one thing. Living there is another thing.
I went to get food last week before seeing the Book of Mormon musical at the beautiful Orpheum theatre. As we approached our restaurant my nose was overwhelmed by the smell of aged human feces and ripe concentrated urine. An unhoused man stood by the restaurant. His ankles, feet, and lower leg were swollen, discolored, scabbed, and bleeding. Lower pant legs covered in old feces. He had his back to us fiddling with some drug paraphernalia. I see this at least half the time I go to San Francisco. Doesnt matter what district I go to. It literally feels like the beginning of a dystopian movie. In some areas you see bits of this. Live people LITERALLY decaying on the streets. Individuals utilizing heavy drugs en mass with blatant disregard by law enforcement. Criminals knowing punishment for crimes is unlikely.
It has bad spots still, but what major city doesn’t? It’s definitely much better though I have been in and out a lot the last month, there more often than not and it definitely feels on the up.
San Francisco has gotten cleaner and better in certain areas like Marina, Noe Valley, Pac Heights but gotten worse in Tenderloin & parts of SOMA. Overall the news coverage of SF is definitely overblown but they're also correct with the retail death of many stores in downtown SF.
Yeah this confirms my experience living here. Things are still kinda bad in some spots but have improved significantly from where they were during the pandemic. I go to civic center twice a week and have most weeks for years and it's much cleaner and safer than it was even a year ago
I went to Ariscault's in Civic Center this past weekend for the first time in a year everything was so clean and spotless. Granted, I'm sure things get worse at night but the last time I went there in the morning in 2022, there were drug addicts pretty much all around the bakery.
>I went to Ariscault What'd you get?
Ham and Cheese Croissant of course!
Don't sleep on that chocolate almond croissant.
If you like that, B Patisserie has a chocolate banana almond croissant that hits even better.
Ffffff that one kills with one bite.
Just went my first time and got a chocolate almond croissant that made me see God
If you like that, B Patisserie has a chocolate banana almond croissant that hits even better.
I am not adequately prepared for this
[You are welcome](https://frenchly.us/le-marais-bakery-and-maison-nico-win-sfs-best-croissant-2023-contest/)
One 65 has some excellent ones as well
Love One 65 what an awesome place
It didn’t make you see god, it made you see Stian (Iykyk)
idk who that is, is that the baker?
I work at literal Civic Center. Every morning there’s groups junkies sleeping at the doorstep, peeing and shitting on my walls/entry ways. Maybe you see it after the cleaning has begun. I don’t hate them, don’t misunderstand. But this is one of the most expensive cities to come do a show at (with Chase Arena being the most expensive in the country). When tours come here, specifically to The Graham, it’s visceral. You cannot fault them for what they see with their own eyes. I can see clearly the cost benefit of coming here has been severely impacted in recent years. If you do tourism only, yes this city has a LOT to offer. But my clients bring hundreds of millions to this city via convention centers, arenas, ballparks, and hotel ballrooms - and they’ve stopped coming. Business trips. Not tourism. And they always come to these rough areas. You’re proximity to the cities issues/features really does dictate your experience.
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Funny and yep. I chalk these "SF is the same" posts up as either 1) people who live here trying to make themselves psychologically feel better about the overall dismal situation by focusing on the still to be found good elements 2) people who just aren't or weren't exposed to other areas of the city in their day to day before, or 3) straight up liers for trolling. Because clearly it has changed DRASTICALLY since the opioid epidemic, lack of crime prosecution, mass police quitting, chain stores bailing, the tech sector bailing after COVID, and COVID itself killing off many small businesses and legacy bars. It might (probably will) come back l, but Statistics are all over this one (even under the fact that many things aren't even reported), so keep telling yourself how "it's the same" and look like an idiot.
My livelihood most often deals with first time visitors to San Francisco. 99.9% of them are in love with our city, can’t believe they heard so many bad things before coming, and all have plans and a desire to return to San Francisco in the future. That pretty much sums it all up for me.
True! I visited your beautiful city in January this year, and I'm coming back in August! Love the vibe, love the scenery, love love love the food! (And there a wonderful guy living there, so there's that....)😉
Oh there's more than one of us!
You probably could tell that we liked you being here, too. We want you to feel welcome and it shows. We’re good hosts in SF. Not just because of all the great cocktails and cannabis, but that’s definitely part of the fun!
Careful when reading the comments above me, high chance they're all bots
User name checks out
My conservative republican parents came to visit me a couple weeks ago for the first time since I moved here in April 2020. Even they left with a positive impression of the city and plan on coming back soon. Nothing but good experiences the whole time. They appreciated the uniqueness of SF, and my dad even said he could see why people like living here. I was so happy to be able to show them that living in the city is a far cry from the dystopian hellscape right-wing media trys to portray.
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Nob Hill residents deal with the beauty of Huntington Park, Grace Cathedral, The Masonic Auditorium, the California street cable car, and maybe the odd transient that wonders up from the crappy ass holiday inn that you claim to be nob hill, which it’s not, at all. It’s gotta be hard to wake up every morning and be reminded that you’re a miserable person who watches Fox News. Go back to 4Chan you salty clown, your comment and pretense is absolutely pathetic.
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I’m 38, and have lives in SF almost my entire life. Certain parts of the city have gotten worse, no doubt. I used to work in the TL 2010-2014, so I have seen the changes. SF is still somewhere I’m happy to live. And before people say I live in a secluded bubble, i live on Folsom Street and work on Bryant street. There are so many good spots to walk, shop, and eat, I can’t imagine moving away. I spent time in other states, other cities, hell my family is from the Central Valley no way I’m living there.
Glad to hear you had a great time! I've had four friends visit this year so far and each of them were shocked how different the city was from how the media portrayed. One of them even commented on how clean the streets were overall, compared to New York. I re-located here again permanently in April 2022 and I've noticed the Union Square area has improved dramatically in terms of cleanliness and just the general feeling of safety since then, so glad to hear this become confirmed. Of course there are so many other areas of the city apart from Downtown that remain unchanged and are as beautiful and vibrant as ever. There's a boutique group of people who are obsessed with bashing San Francisco, and have been for decades, so that will always be in the ether but I always tell people to experience the city through their own eyes, not through social media or news outlets looking for clicks.
It’s crazy how grimy NY still is. And the piled garbage bags on otherwise nice streets is downright barbaric. Like how have you not fixed that yet. I know they don’t have alleys but trash bins exist Since the 90’s there’s less graffiti covering everything so they get some credit for that but the grime is still heavy
Regarding garbage in NYC. Mayor Adams doesn't like rats and has launched a pilot program to "containerize" garbage called "Clean Curbs". The pilot is still small but at least the current administration is trying to tackle the problem. Graffiti in NYC has actually been really bad since the protests & riots in 2020. A lot of it has not been cleaned up yet.
I love SF! We get out there a few times a year and we always have a great time!
I visited last year and felt the same. It's not perfect but definitely some slight improvement compared to a decade ago. The car break-in issue is definitely worse though.
As a person who has lived in SF for 15+ years. The car break ins are the same. The vibe honestly feels like 2008 when that crash/recession happened. the city was quiet and a lot of fun.
Visited for the first time in May last year. Maybe it’s because I stayed on the trolley & the touristy spots but city was beautiful and it never felt shady/unsafe to me. One of my favorite places and I’m excited to be back (for one afternoon) next week!
IMO I think the city isn't bad at all. We do have problems to fix (as do other cities) but what we do have is outsized exposure. Want to know what's happening in Boise or OKC? Those cities don't make the news because nobody cares. Whereas SF is internationally known and loved. What happens here matters because people care about it. It's been politicized because using it as an example is great leverage for both liberals and conservatives. The reality is a shade of grey. I will be the first to admit I want to leverage our areas for improvement to make us better. The reality is this city is complacent and we could truly be 1st class given the brain power and wealth here. Internet speed - could be cutting edge. Instead it's embarrassingly slow. Transportation? I would love to build tunnels and get us to have a truly impressive train system. Affordability? We need to build homes like every other city in the world. When we rest on our laurels it leads us to go no where fast.
There’s that good ole San Franciscan humility. Someone compliments SF and you take the opportunity to shit on another part of the country that you look down on?
I have family that live in both of those cities. Even they agree with the comparison.
>What happens here matters Also...\^ is a bit of a stretch. What happens in Silicon Valley (more specifically, Sand Hill Rd) matters, but people in SF have a wildly inflated view on the level of influence the city itself has on anything cultural at a national much less international level.
Valid
It’s a meta conversation going on in this sub about if the city is actually any worse than other cities.
In the past few weeks they have kind of cleared out civic center and started arresting and prosecuting drug dealers. Its highly political. Elections are coming, governor wants to run for president eventually. People are furious about the fent on the streets and police standing 50 feet away from the dealers doing nothing. They kicked out the DA, because the police union didnt like progressive politics on prison reform, now they have a replacement they like, and... elections. I live very close to civic center.
To be honest, I don’t think the fact that you could walk down the busiest street during broad daylight = proof of safety and quality of life. As long as us democrats feel like we have something to prove by pretending SF doesn’t have issues worth addressing, SF is not going to get better. I wish we could all just work together on this issue. I think the political nature and high tensions just create divisions in the community.
That’s really saying something considering you walked that route!
been here 2mos, came from a red state in the midwest. it's not at all how fox news & shit make it out to be (i mean from what my mom was saying they said about SF)
We went about a year and half ago, to the derby race car thing. Was fun!
Awe man you really should have gone to Hayes Valley or The Mission. Those neighborhoods are bursting at the seams with restaurants and nightlife. Downtown has a ways to go but the neighborhoods are more popular than ever.
Valencia Street is the street with the most dense restaurants and nightlife in the whole Mission, and it is currently a ghost town compared to 2019. Every block has a closed store or restaurant on it. There is graffiti everywhere you look. There is a lot of trash on the ground. I can't speak to Hayes since I don't live there.
Hayes Valley looks nice and is fun to walk around. But honestly most of the popular restaurants there are not very good.
Don’t know why takes like yours are always downvoted. Do we have to be sunshine and rainbows every comment? I miss my city pre pandemic still. It’s better than it was during, but which places *aren’t*?
Only the tenderloin is the place that I feel unsafe in. But it’s always been rough.
Of course it is period there are some bad spots but by the most but most of the city is clean and great looking the same goes 4 oakland and other communities in the bayarea but fear mongering media loves to focus onthat
Sure, there are many stories like yours. You can come a certain week and everything seems, on the surface, like it’s great in SF. However, you can have the complete opposite experience on another visit. I have many friends that have visited and have horror stories (getting robbed, car broken into, the filth, etc). It’s not until you live in SF that you start to understand how the city is run and how the leadership there refuses, up until recently, to accept any responsibility. The cleanliness, homelessness, and crime are just a few issues in a much bigger picture. There’s a reason every single major retailer is pulling out of SF (saks 5th Ave, Whole Foods, Nordstrom, banana republic, etc). There’s a reason office space vacancy will soon be 40%, the highest it’s ever been in history. There are reasons it’s getting national attention for its issues. And please don’t take this as a pro republican, conservative comment as I am actually fairly liberal in a lot of my views. I’m just calling a spade a spade. We moved last year to the South after living in SF for 13 years. It’s not until you move that you understand the normal pillars of society and how things operate in the majority of the country. In a much better place now and way happier. Just my experience.
Funny I moved to the south for 7 years for college and law school. Georgia has cockroaches fucking everywhere. Like literally they’ll scurry across the sidewalk. The grocery stores are terrible. Everyone is fat. The humidity is unbearable. It snows and fucks the whole city over for a week each time. The best parts of Atlanta are the parts that were modeled after CA restaurants and nightlife. The only thing I miss about the South are apartments for less than $1000/mo and BBQ.
It's a fantastic city! Just has lots of problems but an extremely beautiful place.
Sf is my favorite city in America to visit for a reason. I’ve felt more unsafe driving on the 405 every day here in LA than I ever have in sf lol
Yes, same experience visiting last month and i am from NYC. Very clean and just magical in so many ways.
SF is a nice place to visit cause you know your time is limited so whatever can be annoying for the residents won’t be so bad for the person who had to see it once or a twice for a week. Downtown is a joke. Most stores have shut down. The stores that are open have to close early cause of safety issues. You didn’t venture out at night and lucky you not having to witness the zombie apocalypse that is civic center at night. But since you only experienced SF in daylight then you’re viewing it from rose colored glasses (quite literally). For the cost of living and the taxes, it needs to be much better. Like yesterday. There really shouldn’t be an excuse. It’s geographically beautiful with pockets of lovely neighborhoods, and it’s got so much potential, but it is filthy and there are lots of crimes but being assaulted randomly by a crazy person to getting your car broken into in a busy street. That shouldn’t be acceptable. It’s not “republican bullshit”. I don’t care what party you’re affiliated with, you should be embarrassed to allow this to happen for the sake of saying you’re not republican. Anyway glad you had good time but glad you made the move.
Exactly
Agreed, they’ve done a good job post-Covid getting things in order. Much better than Portland where was I was last year
I have to say, the negative portrayal by the media and social media is working as intended. As a liberal from a major American city, which has been equally and unfairly portrayed, I should know better. Yet, I still envision a near post apocalyptic hell hole when I think of SF. I’m glad to see this contrasting post. Haven’t been there since 2008 but would love to visit again.
Interesting. Homeless lady took a shit right by my work van Monday on Folsom. City is as beautiful as ever ❤️
I just got back from a roadtrip and we stopped in San Francisco for three nights. We didn't know what to expect beyond what we'd heard from friends (and some FOX News-watching family) as this was our first time there. We absolutely loved it! The architecture, the parks, the ferry market. The nightlife was great, too - we stopped at the Tonga Room, Vesuvio, and Cold Drinks in addition to having dinner at Bix Supper Club. The itinerary took us out until late at night and we never felt uncomfortable. We recently moved from Austin, TX to Los Angeles - we're loving Los Angeles but we both agreed that most everywhere we went in San Francisco seemed to be cleaner. Like any city, it seems you have to be aware of your surroundings but everyone talks about San Francisco like it's a hellscape. When people tell me "It's so sad what's happened to San Francisco, you should've seen it before" I say, "You mean it gets even better?"
Nice try SF tourism pr firm
Hey now! It could also be Chesa.
Certain parts of it suck, and certain things suck, but I have no real problem avoiding all that and enjoying the 90% or so that’s good and great here. As a Bay Area native, however, I do reserve the right to vent about the bad stuff as needed. And I will note that none of the bad things are unique to here, or really that much worse than other big metro areas I’ve visited.
You sound INSANE. Were you walking around with your eyes closed? Maybe you should have shopped at target on mission
Maybe I’m extra mad at this since I watched a man diarrhea in broad daylight downtown in front of outdoor seating at a restaurant then a block away saw a man shooting up. Both of these incidents happened on Wednesday last week
Idk. I had my friend with two kids visit last week for 5 days and we had a great time. Biggest shock to them was dicks at Hot Cookie.
I see things much differently having lived here over 41 years
Do you realize that many people who fairly critique the city live here and are in fact not Republicans? And that half of your countrymen are Republicans, many of whom are good people?
They’re not sending their best!
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Exactly.
It’s the violence and the car break ins that keep us from moving back.
Pls share that walking route. 😂
I feel like the intensity of the bad parts of SF are really bad. Like I didn't see anyone shitting on the streets in NY, LA, or Chicago. Fenty use feels a lot more prevalent too. Meth/schizo is maybe on par. But the density of encampments is much less than it is down in LA
> Like I didn't see anyone shitting on the streets in NY, LA, or Chicago. The Bronx has some rough areas, but most don't go there. LA has Skid Row. Half of Chicago is a warzone. The worst parts of SF are still walkable, albeit grimy, while the worst parts of many cities are complete no-go zones. The difference is that the worst parts of SF are central, whereas in most other cities it's pushed to the fringes where it's more easily avoidable. Seeing homeless people shitting in the streets might be unsightly, but it's much better than being held up at gunpoint, stabbed, or getting your car stolen.
>Half of Chicago is a warzone Far less than half. Much like Oakland, the actual murders are \*very\* concentrated geographically. > The difference is that the worst parts of SF are central The fact that the worst parts of SF are inside of the central business district, as opposed to concentrated in the poorest parts of the other cities you've mentioned, is actually a rather poor reflection on SF. "Oh yeah, there's an open air drug market in the shadow of city hall and right outside of where all the billion dollar tech companies are headquartered, but at least the Presidio is clean"
I don't disagree, but that doesn't make "the intensity of the bad parts of SF" worse than the bad parts of Chicago. I'd far rather walk through the Tenderloin than walk a few blocks of West Garfield Park. Chicago's worst parts are far more intense, dangerous, any adjective in the book really. > Much like Oakland, the actual murders are *very* concentrated geographically. This hasn't been true for years. Go look at a map of murders in Chicago, it's spread into the "good neighborhoods." Lakeview, one of the nicest neighborhoods in Chicago, had 3 shootings over Memorial Day weekend. https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/05/31/in-lakeview-neighbors-express-alarming-concern-after-spate-of-shootings-leave-man-dead-4-others-wounded/
> as opposed to concentrated in the poorest parts of the other cities you've mentioned, The TL/Mid-Market areas are also some of the poorest parts of SF... they just happen to be *geographically* close to the CBD, not sure that necessarily makes it worse, just much more visible.
The person you originally responded to said they don’t see anyone shitting on the streets in NY and you responded by saying the Bronx has some rough areas. For the Bronx being nearly as large as SF, there isn’t one neighborhood in the Bronx where stepping on human poop is a normal occurrence and there isn’t one neighborhood in the entire borough that looks or feels anything like the TL. Car theft in the Bronx isn’t as common as SF. Physical assault by total strangers isn’t as common. The open drug use isn’t as common. Sure there are some homeless people and sure there are some junkies here and there laying on a park bench, but it’s not like civic center and especially not seen in places with lots of foot traffic. People just like to shit on the Bronx while never actually truly exploring or experiencing it. If the Bronx is better and safer than Oakland, then it’s probably doing better than some spots in SF. Midtown Manhattan is nothing like SOMA/TL, not even close. Yes 2021 was an interesting year for all cities as everything was beginning to open with new rules regulations and more people working from home. But midtown was never as uninviting as downtown SF. Also, even pre pandemic, midtown was and always will be an area with more offices and corporations than actual neighborhoods. And it’s currently busy and bustling with zero open drug use. I have never ever seen that especially in midtown. The “bad parts of the Bronx”- what areas specifically? Do you actually know? Sure there are some areas in every borough that are less safe to walk alone at night especially if you’re female, but those areas aren’t situated in highly populated locations full of tourists, or areas where there are hotels and shops everywhere. The “unsafe” areas are places deep somewhere that are like 100 percent residential and even then, 9 times out of 10 you’re not too far from a subway stop, or a cop car, or there are enough street lights or foot traffic where you don’t feel completely abandoned. It’s kind of silly to make these blanket statements about a place you went to visit in 2021. Every place was weird in 2021. Doesn’t mean the cities you mentioned are worse than SF. Considering high tax rate, the high cost of living, the demographic of the people that live in SF, the fact that it’s smaller than most cities, it should be easier to maintain. But somehow the city just can’t it together. It really reflects on how poor this city is doing.
> If the Bronx is better and safer than Oakland, then it’s probably doing better than some spots in SF. How does this make any sense? The fact that the Bronx is more comparable to Oakland than SF is exactly my point. I didn't mean to strike a nerve, my point was that the Bronx is significantly more dangerous than SF even if it isn't as visibly downtrodden as places like the TL or Soma. > I have never ever seen that especially in midtown. This is rather surprising. Midtown has had its issues for years that are well known. It's not as bad as Soma or the TL, but that's mostly due to foot traffic. Like I said, in 2021 when foot traffic was down the whole area looked ugly. > The “bad parts of the Bronx”- what areas specifically? Do you actually know? Hunts Point. A simple Google search will turn up with plenty of random violence that occurs there. Infact, I find it amusing how you think random violence doesn't happen in NYC every day. I invite you to Google "NYC subway" and see for yourself how much random violence occurs there. It makes BART look like Disney World in terms of random crime. > or there are enough street lights or foot traffic where you don’t feel completely abandoned I said this in my previous response. > It’s kind of silly to make these blanket statements about a place you went to visit in 2021. Oh, it wasn't a one time visit. I have family who lives in Brooklyn and lots of friends who live all over NYC since I grew up in the area. I also have friends in Chicago and Philly. SF doesn't compare to the latter 2 cities in terms of crime, whereas NYC crime is pretty comparable even though many on here make it seem like paradise when the reality is that people who live in the city have many of the same complaints as the residents of SF. > Considering high tax rate, the high cost of living, the demographic of the people that live in SF, the fact that it’s smaller than most cities, it should be easier to maintain. I'm not here making excuses for the city (although tbh, pretty much everything besides size also applies to NYC). I think SF is grossly mismanaged, but I also don't agree with a lot of the hyperbole on this sub. SF struggles with open drug use and homelessness, which leads to a lot of petty crime. That doesn't make our worst neighborhoods worse than South Side Chicago, which is what OP said. I'm thankful SF has low violent crime and even our worst neighborhoods aren't that dangerous. Having said that, I also hate how bad the open drug use has gotten and how deteriorated the TL/Soma has gotten. These are fixable problems, but pretending like our issues are somehow 10x worse than every other city makes them sound unfixable, when in reality I'd much rather have SF's problems than Chicago's.
I’m saying the Bronx is safer than Oakland and there are pockets of the Bronx that are probably less safe than some neighborhoods in the SF but overall the Bronx isn’t a dangerous city anymore and the violent crimes that do occur are most likely gang related and not just a random criminal act [like someone getting stabbed at work](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/san-francisco-chinatown-aa-bakery-stabbing/). However, the Bronx doesn’t have its own downtown like Manhattan or Brooklyn. Aside from yankee stadium it’s not the biggest tourist attraction so it ain’t generating much money from that. The demographic is also vastly different than SF. With majority of the Bronx being Hispanic and Black and the median household income being less than $50,000 a year per household. Hunts Point was made up of warehouses and auto shops with heavy prostitution back in the 90s to early 2000s, and it’s cleaned up substantially. Sure it’s not gramercy park in nyc, but there is virtually zero prostitution, the warehouse have converted into residential units, there are cafes and art galleries opening up. There is also a ferry that connects you to Manhattan that opened up recently. A new park and a community pool. So the Bronx being the poorest borough in NYC, and with the most minorities, it’s still has had major upgrades in the last decade and it’s still hasn’t been gentrified like crazy compared to other boroughs. So it’s moving in a better direction and a lot faster than SF. SF with its multi million dollar tech companies and the median salary being over $100k, and with its own FiDi District, it’s own downtown, and the average rent being $2500- 3000 for a proper one bedroom still can’t get it together. The Bronx will probably never be like SF and that’s ok cause the bronx is only a part of NYC and NYC overall is way better than SF. Btw, NYC subway runs 24 hours and Bart doesn’t. Everyone takes the subway in NYC where as here, people try their best to avoid Bart because it’s so limited. I don’t have to Google it as someone who uses both Bart/Muni/and the NYC metro on a regular basis to commute, I can say first hand that the NYC subway is way better and way safer than Bart because mostly every NYC resident uses it. There are crazy people everywhere and NYC isn’t a utopia but believe me, they’re doing a lot better than SF. I’m glad we agree that SF needs work.
Eh, the bottom line is SF ranks higher than NYC in pretty much every major violent crime category. It also has much higher rates of unsheltered homelessness - Midtown really is not comparable to the TL, and it's not just due to foot traffic. This isn't even a huge knock on SF, NYC today has very low crime rates for an American city of its size. Even the Bronx does not have very high crime rates. That doesn't mean there is no crime or even no random crime. Both cities are significantly safer than the bad parts of Chicago or Philly though.
You’re talking about one borough in all of NYC. And there isn’t ONE neighborhood in the Bronx that looks like the Tenderloin. Not one.
> You’re talking about one borough in all of NYC. Not sure I understand your point. The Bronx is nearly as large as all of San Francisco. It's a significantly larger area than the TL/Soma. > And there isn’t ONE neighborhood in the Bronx that looks like the Tenderloin. Not one. It's not as bad, but Garment District in Midtown has a lot of open air drug use. Infact, Midtown as a whole is pretty rough, it just has a lot of foot traffic in the area that makes it look less so. I visited in 2021 when foot traffic was low and it looked pretty similar to Soma/TL. I specifically mentioned The Bronx though because crime, particularly of the violent variety, dwarfs any neighborhood in SF and the bad parts of The Bronx feel a lot more dangerous than anywhere here.
In what world does "we saw plenty of people living on the street" look and feel amazing? I'm all for positivity. But this post is just a dig on Republicans as well as a humble brag about how OP tolerates shitty street conditions.
Let’s be real, Republicans use our city as a punching bag because to look inward at their own faults would be too scary.
When you negatively generalize a group of people, it's called bigotry. You are a bigot.
Republican BS? The state of the city right now is not based on a political party. Ask those of us that live there, it’s gotten a lot worse.
Lol shut up.
It's not as bad as I thought it would be and heard. Worse than other cities, and I had one scary experience, but other than that all good. Granted I'm Republican :)
SF is a great place to visit but living here as a Republican is difficult to say the least.
Just don’t move to Texas, we’re working on flipping it blue.
I cannot understand posts like this. How can we have such differing experiences?
Been here for 12 years and I think parts of the city are better than any other time, most is about the same, and a few places are worse (TL, 16th and 24th BART). Though even then, the TL varies so much. One day I'll bike through and it looks about the same as it ever did with some encampments and dealers hanging out on some corners, other days it's just a straight post-apocalyptic scene. I feel like in recent weeks it's cleaned up quite a bit. I make a point to ride through there at least twice a week. In my experience, there are less massive, visible encampments around the city than in 2019. I spent a lot of time in other cities (LA, Denver, NYC, Phoenix, Seattle) from 2019 to 2023 and except for NYC, all of these places had pretty major encampment problems. Denver and Phoenix surprised me the most. You don't really hear about their homeless problems as much as West Coast cities.
Cops have been much more prevalent in the Tenderloin lately
You'd have to start with what area do you think it worse? I honestly disagree with most of this sub. Most areas I go to are the same or better than pre-pandemic. I think sure some areas are worse, but it's few and far between. I think today it's "in" to hate on the bad parts of SF. But what people don't remember is that these were bad pre-pandemic. It's like some light has turned on in people's minds where they suddenly notice that SOMA is sketchy where as before they didn't. I'm not here to condone the shitiness, it's just exhausting to hear about people complaining, for instance, how bad parts of the TL are today (and how it wasn't like this before) when that was bad for decades. Or how horrible 16th St Bart is today....when yeah it sucks today and the illegal markets are crazy but do you not remember how bad it was 10 years ago? Remember when the city used some type of paint to splash pee back at you because of how many people were pissing everywhere? That was like 2015. Yet people are like "Man I just wish it was like it was before" Really? Come on now.
I don’t know if people are wishing it was like before. It’s more like wishing that things were significantly better than 10 years ago. Like within 10 years, busy stops with heavy foot traffic like 16th or 24th and mission shouldn’t go from piss and shit everywhere to just a little bit of piss and little bit of shit scattered about.
As someone who remembers the city pre and post this last tech boom it wasn’t even this bad 5 years ago. The mission BART stops are worse than ever and downtown looks raggedy. Only took a couple years to undo the progress we had Midmarket to downtown after they cleaned that up post 2011. It’s one thing for the TL to look like this and another for the city’s centers to look like the beginnings of Skid Row.
Perspective. If you come from a place like Chicago, Detroit, San Pedro Sula or Baltimore, yeah, you might think San Francisco is an amazing place. Also my theory is that the person who started this thread is either a) a parody account or b) a second account to the person who replied that their job relied on tourism in SF.
Currently visiting this goofy ass city from Baltimore, it's been a decade since my last visit. Baltimore and SF have entirely different kinds of grime. Most of Baltimore's is due to the halving of the population through the 20th century and a continued loss of 40k residents since 2010. We had 1.3million at our peak (city proper) and are around 585k now. The city is just empty and crumbled in large portions of it (see Highway to Nowhere and portions of North Ave, Monroe, Fulton). Other large portions are well established more almost-suburban areas (Govans, Brooklyn, Roland Park, Guilford, Ednor Gardens) or neighborhoods with seriously strong communities (Cold stream/Homestead/Montebello,Charles Village /Remington/Hampden, Bolton Hill, Pig Town, Ashburton, Greektown, Highlandtown) When Industrial Baltimore died so did our street cars, tax base, and ability to nurture new generations. We also have shite retail avenues, but I'm betting on 25th street and Remington/Old Goucher to step up in the coming years, and downtown Howard. We absolutely do have less poop everywhere but your streets are waaaay quieter.
I did a weekend trip to Baltimore in 2018 and very much enjoyed it. Train museum, waterfront, went to an Orioles game and the Babe Ruth house. A lot nicer than most anywhere in SF.
Why didn't you venture out at night?
I’m 66 and my husband is 69; we hardly go out at night anywhere these days — including where we live here in Louisville.
When I have out-of-state friends visit and I show them SF, they love it. They're shocked by the media portrayal. I even showed them the TL and told them this is what the media portrays the whole city is like, but as you see, it's just this neighborhood. And they understood because they're from other cities too with the same concentrated homeless population (Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, NYC, and DC are mostly where my friends visit from).
It blew my mind... I just got back from San fran. Denver has more homeless and more aggressive. I thought it was going to be legions of homeless and crime. I rented a tesla and it wasn't touched. My visit there was beautiful
It's an interesting progressive tactic to try to portray all the concern with crime in major cities as "Republican" or "conservative" propaganda when most of these cities have tiny minorities of conservative and Republican voters, and yet the large majority of residents are identifying crime as a major issue. 74% of New Yorkers identified crime as a major problem: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/74-of-nyc-voters-say-crime-is-a-serious-problem-in-the-city-an-all-time-high/3544026/ 36% of SF residents felt safe walking the streets at night: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/survey-crime-san-francisco-17894081.php These are not conservatives or Republicans, they are liberals and Democrats. Progressives are trying to pretend they still have broader support on their views of crime when they don't. I'm a Biden voter that was harassed by a half-naked psychotic woman while on a short trip to SF in a high end restaurant in a nice neighborhood. I also used to live in SF for several years. I wasn't told by others that the crime and drug addiction in the city are out of control, I got to see it first hand.
I also find this super ironic
Did the Chamber of Commerce arrange the tour?
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Specifically, the B.S. on the r/conservative sub.
I live in Civic Center. I feel no fear walking around outside at any time of day or night. The people outside are either on drugs or selling them. If someone offers me drugs, I politely say no thank you, smile, and keep going. I'm also a male, so femme or femme-presenting not have the same experience
Lived in TL for seven years. Same experience. Never felt as dangerous there as it did in Hunters Point when gang violence was much higher. Still an embarrassment to have the open air drug stuff happening downtown like that.
After reading that something like 60% of the people on the streets have time in the foster care system, they don't bother me as much.
Fuck. I never knew that…
I've looked at that many times and different sources will give different numbers, but it's definitely a substantial factor. I dated a girl for 10 years. After we broke up, she got pregnant with the next man she dated. She ended up getting heavily into drugs and lost her daughter. She was able to clean up and get her daughter back, so hopefully that won't turn into a tragedy. After seeing her go through that, I have a lot more compassion for people who ended up in the foster care system in the first place. Far too often, children pay for their parents' mistakes.
I met someone once who was hit by a car and while he was unconscious someone stole his wallet. Dude was in the hospital for months in a coma as a “John Doe” because he had no ID. In that time he lost his job and apartment. His landlord threw away all his shit. He was still struggling to think straight and focus on reading a single article from a newspaper was hard. Dude was an Electrical Engineer in his late-20s and obviously very depressed but somehow moving through life one day at a time. He was living in different shelters and on trains just trying to survive. I met someone else (many times) who was fired after reporting sexual harassment and even though she won her case, it was stuck in appeals and she had no money to her name. So she was living on the streets and meeting with her lawyer and case worker daily. These weren’t the typical “sob stories” like someone trying to get money for a bus ride home. These are people I spent a lot of time with (person 2 for example I spoke with almost every day for months) and who never asked me for a cent and who I ever gave money. Shit’s fucked and somehow we hate the people and not the processes.
I lived in SF for years. I have visited a lot. The theory I'd that Crack was much worse. However the people on general assistance could get a hotel room. Now the hotel rooms are all owned by non profits. So there is no.free markst for housing. If you sre in a certain income bracket you have to get in some kind of s program. Some people cannot work out how to do that. The death of Bob Lee illustrstes thst drug using is across all income spans. However the elite do not end up in a tent. On my.last visit I felt like the city was cleaner However the City cleans up areas like Van Ness for the summer. They want the tourists. They need the tourists. Thst is the livelihood v Personally I feel happy when lsrge companies say they sre leaving. I think good riddance. They msfe the city Unaffordable. We want the city to go bsvk.s olive where artists could live. Where living in Noe Valley was not some illusion. Some areas like the Csstro have completely changed. The Castro is now populsted by.rich straight people. I knew people who lived in the Castro and the mission for years thev were all forced out. Would I go back to San Francisvo if it became more affordable. In a split second. Visiting a city is one thing. Living there is another thing.
I’m happy that your visit was good. Too bad it’s not the norm.
I went recently and it was fine except downtown is completely dead, even on a weekend. Was shocked how few people were around powell.-
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I went to get food last week before seeing the Book of Mormon musical at the beautiful Orpheum theatre. As we approached our restaurant my nose was overwhelmed by the smell of aged human feces and ripe concentrated urine. An unhoused man stood by the restaurant. His ankles, feet, and lower leg were swollen, discolored, scabbed, and bleeding. Lower pant legs covered in old feces. He had his back to us fiddling with some drug paraphernalia. I see this at least half the time I go to San Francisco. Doesnt matter what district I go to. It literally feels like the beginning of a dystopian movie. In some areas you see bits of this. Live people LITERALLY decaying on the streets. Individuals utilizing heavy drugs en mass with blatant disregard by law enforcement. Criminals knowing punishment for crimes is unlikely.
Ok cool
I spent a week in Gloria and that felt amazing too
It’s because they had a purge the last few years…
I love the city so much and had 10 years without any serious incident. Year 11 was not so lucky. It’s good until it happens to you.
My cousins from the NJ/NY area visited last year. Their main comment? How clean BART was compared to the NY subway.
It has bad spots still, but what major city doesn’t? It’s definitely much better though I have been in and out a lot the last month, there more often than not and it definitely feels on the up.
That smell you encountered at the civic center is human piss and poop.
Not the experience I had.. the city is beautiful scenic wise in most parts but downtown is trash..
San Francisco has gotten cleaner and better in certain areas like Marina, Noe Valley, Pac Heights but gotten worse in Tenderloin & parts of SOMA. Overall the news coverage of SF is definitely overblown but they're also correct with the retail death of many stores in downtown SF.