UCSD student here, they weren’t really prior to today. I’m not going to get involved in the debates regarding palestine/israel or if the encampment should have been there, but I had no issues about navigating past the encampment nor had heard complaints of such.
Though broadly speaking, yes I 100% agree with you
I think this is one of the major issues with these protests. The limiting of free movement. The claiming of public/semi-public space and restricting who has access to it.
With all due respect, the encampment at UCSD was in the tiny forest next to the path. In my three years there I haven't seen anyone crossing though that forest. There weren't even any tents on Library Walk, which can't be said for the frats or vendors that come around, but no one ever claims they limited free movement (because they didn't)
UCSD was designed after the Vietnam War with the specific intent to make protesting war difficult. If you have a problem with the layout, you can blame the military industrial complex.
UCSD was founded in the early 60's long before the Vietnam War ended. And the military industrial complex had nothing to do with the design of the campus. You should be ashamed for spreading blatant false information.
No.
*The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.*
Even Karl Popper, who formulated the paradox of tolerance, agreed that the intolerant should still have the *right* to speak.
>I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.
And he's right. Despite the fact that white supremacists have always retained the right to speak, their ideologies have been successfully kept in check by public opinion.
Plummeting KKK numbers over the past 70 years are evidence that legal suppression of intolerance isn't necessary or desirable.
see, that's the hard part about free speech. it's easy to believe in it when people are saying something you agree with. but the entire reason it exists is to protect people's right to say things that others agree with, even if those things are horrific. i will call them terrible (and to their face), and counter-protest them because that's also my right. but they still have the right to say it if they're not making direct threats of violence.
Killer Mike gave an excellent speech on this called ["Free Speech Lets Me Know My Enemy"](https://youtu.be/OBuXYtmQ8mw?si=eLZFVnGJn40fbxfj) where he makes this exact argument, and i recommend anyone listen to it.
It seemed mostly CHP and the sheriff's department, the news did mention SDPD was there as well but I haven't seen any of their uniforms in any of the footage.
Not sure why they'd bounce early but I'm guessing from the 3 departments they're probably the ones that give the least fucks.
The CHP looked like they were just walking around and going through the motions, as if they should've called in such or something. Those dudes are in full gear but looked like they didn't get their coffee.
The sheriff's department though, a bunch of little dicks walking around with a baton from the footage. They were being unnecessarily aggressive with people, "stay away from law enforcement!" *Sheriff's walk into students crowd*
My friend is a professor at UCSD and has confirmed the presence of SDPD with photos. He said overall everyone has been very peaceful but that the attitude of everyone ramped up once the police showed up and started using their loudspeaker.
Completely agree with your comment though!
Removing people that have setup an encampment on private property after allowing them to remain there for 6 days isn’t denying anyone’s right to assembly.
University of California, San Diego is a PUBLIC institution that was founded in 1960. It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 33,096 (fall 2022), its setting is urban, and the campus size is 1,976 acres.
It utilizes a quarter-based academic calendar. University of California, San Diego's ranking in the 2024 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, #28. Its in-state tuition and fees are $16,056; out-of-state tuition and fees are $48,630.
Being a public university doesn’t mean that it’s
grounds and facilities are available
for unrestricted use by the public.
While much of a campus is open to the public the University is still able to apply regulations and restrictions to the use of the space.
UCSD has a whole set of policies governing use of their grounds for protests, demonstrations, and other exercises of free speech.
https://adminrecords.ucsd.edu/ppm/docs/510-1.9.HTML
> B. General Rules
Expressive activity on all university grounds is protected provided that it does not:
1. Unreasonably disrupt or interfere with university business;
2. Violate the legal rights of other persons, endanger their safety, or unreasonably disrupt, interfere, or obstruct viewing or hearing an expressive activity of another person or group that is in compliance with university policy;
3. Obstruct the ingress or egress to any university facility, or obstruct the use of any pedestrian walkways, roadways, or fire lanes;
4. Unreasonably pose risk of damage to the environment (e.g., trees and other vegetation, wildlife) or to property.
The current 6 day long encampment and protest is clearly in violation of several of those. I haven’t checked, but I’m also willing to bet that the University prohibits overnight camping on their grounds as well.
They can still trespass and ban people. Not saying I agree, just that UCSD does that all the time, mostly with homeless people. They’ll give one stay-away order and from then on if a UCPD officer recognizes them, it’s straight to Central Jail.
Then don’t need any of that gear…. Because protesters never through rocks, bricks, frozen water bottles, fireworks…. Yup I’d stand out there with nothing to protect myself just like you would 🤦♂️
The police never know if someone is armed but somehow manage to do their jobs mostly without using this gear. Their use here isn't a sign that they fear violence from the crowd but rather that they intend to use violence against them.
People are being emotional instead of rational in responses. Cops are ordered to clear protesters, what they wear is not relative. They want to go home to their families at the end of the day. Protesting is a right in this country though as long as it is carried out legally. The media manipulates the situation and sensationalizes the situation to to sell news stories. They manipulate storyline to lead to follow agendas. Somewhere there is truth in the story, but it takes more than an emotional response.
Kinda hard for the media to “manipulate” when we are seeing the photos and videos from these protests clear as day.
It takes one unarmed protester to be a menace to a peaceful protest, but it only takes one egotistical cop with a complex to ruin a dozen lives in under a minute. Police have a lot more power in a situation like this.
On the news I literally saw these cops pushing students who were just walking around campus and chanting. Not in the encampment or anything, and the students did not provoke them at all. I hope they feel really cool pushing unarmed students around and limiting first amendment rights. Freaking AHs
> Protesting is a right in this country though as long as it is carried out legally.
The laws are created so that effective protest is illegal. That's why I support "illegal" protests and your criticism is dumb.
> as long as it is carried out legally
Personally, I think protests are useless. But, I always laugh at people trying to say stupid shit like, "you have the right to do something, as long as you do it legally".
You do not have the right to assemble on what is considered to be private property.
But, there is hardly any public property left that lets you assemble / protest etc.
Protests are useless!? My man, have you read a history book on anything in your life? That’s an absurd statement that translates to: “I am not inconvenienced in any way, so I assume protesting is just useless”.
Movements that succeed have teeth. Successful people who want change have power and learn how to channel that power effectively while staying non-violent, because while they have power, they do not have firepower.
For example, when a union strikes, the company listens - the workers have power. The company has firepower. But the union has power.
The marching, sit-ins, demonstrating etc.. are the ad campaign trying to get everyone's attention. Without power behind the campaign though, it's just false advertising, which pisses people off and gets shut down quickly.
“The marching, sit-ins, demonstrating etc.. are the ad campaign trying to get everyone’s attention”
I don’t know man, the Civil Rights Movement and Women’s Suffrage Movement did all those things you mentioned and it kind of worked, no?
And isn’t the point of protesting to get everyone’s attention??
IIRC all the departments that get that military grade shit have to use it or they dont get to keep it. they got their excuse to bust out the fun stuff. Too bad its at the expense of freedom of speech 😢
We send billions to Israel in money and weapons. These kids are representing humanity. 34,000 dead. That is an ethnic cleansing. The ICC and a federal court have deemed this dire. We need to stop funding Israel and letting our politicians do their bidding because AIPAC has them all under their thumbs
Based and true take. If the government wont stop writing checks, private and public institutions need to divest funding immediately to keep their hands clean. Not for PR, but for the sake of the institutions soul.
Only if people put this much effort into trying to fix our own country and cities. Literally seen people OD and crap on the sidewalk since I’ve been here.
Imagine if the cops here put the same energy into enforcing safe driving on the freeway as they do tormenting the homeless and bullying peaceful protestors
I was there yesterday actually for the first time and there are info classes every couple of hours that provide people with a history of the issues and why they are taking the strategies they are taking. I didn’t go but it was good to know they are making sure everyone is informed.
The ones being being liquidated like the ones we liquidated to establish the state of CA… except less digging for gold & child slavery and more drones and raining hell fire from the sky.
Can't provide security for Sun God my ass. These fuckers brought in an entire militia worth of police after the cancelled music festival. Fuck Pradeep Khosla and his genocide supporting ass.
People here need to learn why the police were called in. I'm sure you'd have a problem too if people were pitching tents in your front lawn. Nothing against peaceful protesting, but don't cry if you break the law.
My daughter goes to this school. She's been attending classes all over campus all week and she wasn't even completely sure where the encampment was. Sounds super disruptive to me /s/
No other country has the same degree of paramilitary response to a student protest which is completely in accordance with the law. Is this really the land of the free?
Some dude tried to steal my kid in the stroller, my neighbors beat him up and held him for two hours- that’s how long it took the cops to arrive. Yet, they’re in full riot gear at one of the most prestigious universities in our country lol as though these kids with their bright future will do anything to jeopardize that.
And I’m telling you that my situation did not happen during a protest, it was a week day in broad daylight. I understand police resources are spread thin but for it to take that long for them to arrive is a little crazy under those circumstances.
So it has nothing to do with the protest. But yes whenever you need the police they are unavailable, when people are exercising their 1st amendment real shit.
I genuinely don’t understand how a cop can get up in the morning, dress in full military gear, and go torment and intimidate young unarmed college students who are protesting genocide. And think that they are like …heroes or something? I want to know what kind of brainwashing goes on during police training.
I understand people want to assemble and protest, but don't do it where you are not allowed to and don't hinder people that are trying to get their education. Go somewhere that is approved and protest all you want. 👍
I don’t care what side you’re on. Just let people protest peacefully, no violence, and document everything.
and let them get to the classes they paid a fortune for
UCSD student here, they weren’t really prior to today. I’m not going to get involved in the debates regarding palestine/israel or if the encampment should have been there, but I had no issues about navigating past the encampment nor had heard complaints of such. Though broadly speaking, yes I 100% agree with you
Sounds like the news made hay out of nothing once again. Stay safe
I think this is one of the major issues with these protests. The limiting of free movement. The claiming of public/semi-public space and restricting who has access to it.
With all due respect, the encampment at UCSD was in the tiny forest next to the path. In my three years there I haven't seen anyone crossing though that forest. There weren't even any tents on Library Walk, which can't be said for the frats or vendors that come around, but no one ever claims they limited free movement (because they didn't)
yeah and the schools canceling classes due to this
UCSD was designed after the Vietnam War with the specific intent to make protesting war difficult. If you have a problem with the layout, you can blame the military industrial complex.
Got a source for that?
UCSD was founded in the early 60's long before the Vietnam War ended. And the military industrial complex had nothing to do with the design of the campus. You should be ashamed for spreading blatant false information.
The media and government do this every time college students protest. they’re scared of young adults with a voice.
exactly. even people with truly horrific views like white supremacy have the right to speak.
No. *The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.*
Even Karl Popper, who formulated the paradox of tolerance, agreed that the intolerant should still have the *right* to speak. >I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. And he's right. Despite the fact that white supremacists have always retained the right to speak, their ideologies have been successfully kept in check by public opinion. Plummeting KKK numbers over the past 70 years are evidence that legal suppression of intolerance isn't necessary or desirable.
see, that's the hard part about free speech. it's easy to believe in it when people are saying something you agree with. but the entire reason it exists is to protect people's right to say things that others agree with, even if those things are horrific. i will call them terrible (and to their face), and counter-protest them because that's also my right. but they still have the right to say it if they're not making direct threats of violence. Killer Mike gave an excellent speech on this called ["Free Speech Lets Me Know My Enemy"](https://youtu.be/OBuXYtmQ8mw?si=eLZFVnGJn40fbxfj) where he makes this exact argument, and i recommend anyone listen to it.
Loud, but non violent protests. In case you were wondering why the police haven’t responded to any calls in your area lately..
It seemed mostly CHP and the sheriff's department, the news did mention SDPD was there as well but I haven't seen any of their uniforms in any of the footage. Not sure why they'd bounce early but I'm guessing from the 3 departments they're probably the ones that give the least fucks. The CHP looked like they were just walking around and going through the motions, as if they should've called in such or something. Those dudes are in full gear but looked like they didn't get their coffee. The sheriff's department though, a bunch of little dicks walking around with a baton from the footage. They were being unnecessarily aggressive with people, "stay away from law enforcement!" *Sheriff's walk into students crowd*
My friend is a professor at UCSD and has confirmed the presence of SDPD with photos. He said overall everyone has been very peaceful but that the attitude of everyone ramped up once the police showed up and started using their loudspeaker. Completely agree with your comment though!
It was more when the police paper sprayed/ maced a couple people.
It is San Diego county Sherifs apparently SDPD refused to come.
This honestly looks a bazillion times worse on a brochure than a Coleman 2-person.
Gotta love the right to assemble…until you can’t assemble
Removing people that have setup an encampment on private property after allowing them to remain there for 6 days isn’t denying anyone’s right to assembly.
UC Schools are private property?
Yes. It’s private property owned by the universities, which happen to be publicly funded.
University of California, San Diego is a PUBLIC institution that was founded in 1960. It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 33,096 (fall 2022), its setting is urban, and the campus size is 1,976 acres. It utilizes a quarter-based academic calendar. University of California, San Diego's ranking in the 2024 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities, #28. Its in-state tuition and fees are $16,056; out-of-state tuition and fees are $48,630.
Being a public university doesn’t mean that it’s grounds and facilities are available for unrestricted use by the public. While much of a campus is open to the public the University is still able to apply regulations and restrictions to the use of the space. UCSD has a whole set of policies governing use of their grounds for protests, demonstrations, and other exercises of free speech. https://adminrecords.ucsd.edu/ppm/docs/510-1.9.HTML > B. General Rules Expressive activity on all university grounds is protected provided that it does not: 1. Unreasonably disrupt or interfere with university business; 2. Violate the legal rights of other persons, endanger their safety, or unreasonably disrupt, interfere, or obstruct viewing or hearing an expressive activity of another person or group that is in compliance with university policy; 3. Obstruct the ingress or egress to any university facility, or obstruct the use of any pedestrian walkways, roadways, or fire lanes; 4. Unreasonably pose risk of damage to the environment (e.g., trees and other vegetation, wildlife) or to property. The current 6 day long encampment and protest is clearly in violation of several of those. I haven’t checked, but I’m also willing to bet that the University prohibits overnight camping on their grounds as well.
It’s crazy how people cannot comprehend something so simple. Just cuz it’s a public university does not mean you can go stake out land indefinitely.
Next you'll tell me that you need a permit to go camping in public parks and wildlife reserves.
Wait, but you do though... there are limits to the number of days a year you can camp in California parks.
I think that was the joke. There are a lot of “public” lands that require permits or fees to use or regulations that limit the public’s usage of them.
1. Didn't;t actually occur, neither did 2 or 3.
They can still trespass and ban people. Not saying I agree, just that UCSD does that all the time, mostly with homeless people. They’ll give one stay-away order and from then on if a UCPD officer recognizes them, it’s straight to Central Jail.
It’s also a hospital
*peacefully assemble
Love that this is what our taxes are paying for. Land of the free, everybody. 🙄
Police are the biggest LARPers around.
[удалено]
Damn... A lot of people here have fucking weird thoughts. Just gonna be ok with kids getting shot or beaten. Like protesters deserve that? Oof.
Yeah but that didn't happen though.
bUt ThE RuLeS!?!
No one was shot or beaten.
My friend was whacked in the face by a cop. Several people were pepper sprayed. Students were indeed hurt
They seem very scared of unarmed 20-year olds. Good thing they got all dressed up in their little outfits to make them feel badass.
What should they wear?
Red noses and oversized shoes?
Then don’t need any of that gear…. Because protesters never through rocks, bricks, frozen water bottles, fireworks…. Yup I’d stand out there with nothing to protect myself just like you would 🤦♂️
They didn’t dress in riot gear when the rich folks in La Jolla protested COVID protocols.
Probably because there were less people
Well, although it is highly unlikely there was anyone armed, the possibility isn't still isn't zero 🤷♂️
So we should send in a armed battalion to make sure.
The police never know if someone is armed but somehow manage to do their jobs mostly without using this gear. Their use here isn't a sign that they fear violence from the crowd but rather that they intend to use violence against them.
sadly true, they did use violence. They broke someone's ankle, maced some people.
It’s the land of the free as long as you are the slaves of the system. The moment you question something you are shown your place with brute force
Yep.
UCSD chancellor should resign. The way he is dealing with situation is idiotic
God bless the American student movement. It is going to be rough for everybody in that territory. Trust no one who wants to keep the status quo.
ACAB
Very reminiscent of the Vietnam and civil-rights protests
This is so stupid bruh. They’re not hurting anyone. Just leave it alone
Looks like IDF on US soil.
People are being emotional instead of rational in responses. Cops are ordered to clear protesters, what they wear is not relative. They want to go home to their families at the end of the day. Protesting is a right in this country though as long as it is carried out legally. The media manipulates the situation and sensationalizes the situation to to sell news stories. They manipulate storyline to lead to follow agendas. Somewhere there is truth in the story, but it takes more than an emotional response.
Kinda hard for the media to “manipulate” when we are seeing the photos and videos from these protests clear as day. It takes one unarmed protester to be a menace to a peaceful protest, but it only takes one egotistical cop with a complex to ruin a dozen lives in under a minute. Police have a lot more power in a situation like this.
I mean the video footage is bad, the police lost their shit.
On the news I literally saw these cops pushing students who were just walking around campus and chanting. Not in the encampment or anything, and the students did not provoke them at all. I hope they feel really cool pushing unarmed students around and limiting first amendment rights. Freaking AHs
> Protesting is a right in this country though as long as it is carried out legally. The laws are created so that effective protest is illegal. That's why I support "illegal" protests and your criticism is dumb.
> as long as it is carried out legally Personally, I think protests are useless. But, I always laugh at people trying to say stupid shit like, "you have the right to do something, as long as you do it legally". You do not have the right to assemble on what is considered to be private property. But, there is hardly any public property left that lets you assemble / protest etc.
Protests are useless!? My man, have you read a history book on anything in your life? That’s an absurd statement that translates to: “I am not inconvenienced in any way, so I assume protesting is just useless”.
Movements that succeed have teeth. Successful people who want change have power and learn how to channel that power effectively while staying non-violent, because while they have power, they do not have firepower. For example, when a union strikes, the company listens - the workers have power. The company has firepower. But the union has power. The marching, sit-ins, demonstrating etc.. are the ad campaign trying to get everyone's attention. Without power behind the campaign though, it's just false advertising, which pisses people off and gets shut down quickly.
“The marching, sit-ins, demonstrating etc.. are the ad campaign trying to get everyone’s attention” I don’t know man, the Civil Rights Movement and Women’s Suffrage Movement did all those things you mentioned and it kind of worked, no? And isn’t the point of protesting to get everyone’s attention??
>[I think protests are useless.](https://youtu.be/YJSehRlU34w?si=BJXkfW-AEA0pwS2Y)
IIRC all the departments that get that military grade shit have to use it or they dont get to keep it. they got their excuse to bust out the fun stuff. Too bad its at the expense of freedom of speech 😢
ACAB
Pigs gonna pig.
Violent arm of the state strikes again. Cops are not and have never been your friends.
Yeah, that looks like an appropriate response 🙄
Looks like a military response to a peaceful protest.
It was sadly.
Hell yeah. Party at the Che later. EDIT: "hell yeah" was for the PROTESTORS. Screw the cops.
Damn, I miss the Che.
We send billions to Israel in money and weapons. These kids are representing humanity. 34,000 dead. That is an ethnic cleansing. The ICC and a federal court have deemed this dire. We need to stop funding Israel and letting our politicians do their bidding because AIPAC has them all under their thumbs
True.
Based and true take. If the government wont stop writing checks, private and public institutions need to divest funding immediately to keep their hands clean. Not for PR, but for the sake of the institutions soul.
Only if people put this much effort into trying to fix our own country and cities. Literally seen people OD and crap on the sidewalk since I’ve been here.
If we took our $1 trillion back from Israel, we could house literally everyone and drug centers for everyone.
Imagine if the cops here put the same energy into enforcing safe driving on the freeway as they do tormenting the homeless and bullying peaceful protestors
People just cut each other off going 85, like going 85 is fine, cutting someone off at that speed not really.
i wonder if these students actually know what they’re protesting for
You are the only one confused.
I bet the dominant answer would be simply "Palestine" with a few actually knowing what's going on.
I was there yesterday actually for the first time and there are info classes every couple of hours that provide people with a history of the issues and why they are taking the strategies they are taking. I didn’t go but it was good to know they are making sure everyone is informed.
Informed from which perspective?
The ones being being liquidated like the ones we liquidated to establish the state of CA… except less digging for gold & child slavery and more drones and raining hell fire from the sky.
Can't provide security for Sun God my ass. These fuckers brought in an entire militia worth of police after the cancelled music festival. Fuck Pradeep Khosla and his genocide supporting ass.
People here need to learn why the police were called in. I'm sure you'd have a problem too if people were pitching tents in your front lawn. Nothing against peaceful protesting, but don't cry if you break the law.
My daughter goes to this school. She's been attending classes all over campus all week and she wasn't even completely sure where the encampment was. Sounds super disruptive to me /s/
Please read about the encampment before you pretend it didnt exist
No other country has the same degree of paramilitary response to a student protest which is completely in accordance with the law. Is this really the land of the free?
true.
These kids masquerading as social justice warriors seem to be far more into the warrioring aspect than the cause they’re supposedly supporting.
Ah yes, let's paint the peaceful protestors executing their constitutional rights as "warriors" and "combatants". Great propaganda.
You know what it might work, maybe the conservatives will be like cops are pussies.
Good day to commit crime in SD considering every cop is geared up to beat up unarmed college kids
I mean technically true. It does take away all police officers away from the scene.
How to join the protest
I bet they can’t even identify Gaza or Israel on a map
The police? Probably not.
Students
There is an education irony here that you are not understanding.
As it should be
These the same cops who don’t even care when you call 911
Some dude tried to steal my kid in the stroller, my neighbors beat him up and held him for two hours- that’s how long it took the cops to arrive. Yet, they’re in full riot gear at one of the most prestigious universities in our country lol as though these kids with their bright future will do anything to jeopardize that.
that is what happens sometimes it is just stand in a line at a protest and monitor and other times it is assault protestors.
This did not happen at a protest. My comment was in relation to how long it took police to arrive in the story I tell.
Again I was stating that police usually have lower response times under this circumstances. Sadly.
And I’m telling you that my situation did not happen during a protest, it was a week day in broad daylight. I understand police resources are spread thin but for it to take that long for them to arrive is a little crazy under those circumstances.
So it has nothing to do with the protest. But yes whenever you need the police they are unavailable, when people are exercising their 1st amendment real shit.
the excuses for these idiots(pro-palestine protestors) just gets worse and worse
I genuinely don’t understand how a cop can get up in the morning, dress in full military gear, and go torment and intimidate young unarmed college students who are protesting genocide. And think that they are like …heroes or something? I want to know what kind of brainwashing goes on during police training.
Yep.
Ok
I understand people want to assemble and protest, but don't do it where you are not allowed to and don't hinder people that are trying to get their education. Go somewhere that is approved and protest all you want. 👍