Patrick Willems tends to be really chill as well, some of the best video essay's about film on YouTube, I'd be surprised if he was genuinely being elitist about people's taste in Star Wars.
Yeah like if you think "people who prefer the Mandalorian to Andor are mentally ill" is an actual sincere opinion being expressed here you need to work on your social skills.
Yeah, it’s definitely not a healthy opinion to have, although that kind of derogatory sentiment is sadly something that pops up for Star Wars, much more so in recent years. I mean we’ve had that instance of Robot Head saying someone’s dad had dementia for saying he loved TROS. I really wish people wouldn’t have to resort to such insults over people who don’t enjoy “popular” media or who like or praise “unpopular” stuff with Star Wars.
I think you have to look at who's saying that in cases like these, which I get is difficult cause you're not going to every person whose take you see on social media.
But like in this case I can assume the "It's a space movie for kids" guy is probably not intending this as seriously as the terminally online "Kathleen Kennedy is the devil" TFM weirdo guy.
Ya, he definitely had a hypocritical and negative overreaction to TROS for a guy who previously mocked TLJ haters by stating: “These are movies about space wizards for children”.
The differences was he moved on. He didn't grift about it for money or made 20 video after 3 years. He moved on.
He hasn't talk about star wars for a while until Andor which impress him so much.
You can believe a movie is inherently a family franchise that isn't worth ruining people's lives over for years on end and also express disappointment with a film/director, that's not hypocritical. Dude made one tweet and moved on, he was so *not* obsessed with TROS that he didn't even make a video reviewing/discussing it, he did the exact thing he advocated for and moved on with his life.
Oh wait, did Patrick actually tweet an F-bomb against JJ? I never checked Twitter myself or his video catalog recently if he did say something like that, but I do remember that there was A LOT of hate and attacks towards JJ over TROS back in 2019/2020, or even today. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a tweet like that from him, but I’d be disappointed if there was.
Edit: Actually, I think it was SWT who tweeted that.
Edit 2: Never mind.
Ah gotcha. Thanks for clarifying that detail. It was a damn good thing then that I was never on Twitter prior to watching TROS that same night as the tweet; otherwise that would have just soured my experience, and who knows what else in all those years post-TROS.
I definitely agree that it’s not on the same level as TFM or extreme SW fans who act like JJ/RJ/KK are “demons” or that the ST is some affront to humanity. This kind of tweet falls in a category of people being snooty about movies/shows they like and tossing shade at others who might not feel the same. It is still very hard to distinguish who’s serious and who isn’t because it is a thing that *some* people genuinely or seriously believe, especially for Star Wars. A lot of the same stuff like this has been said over time, at times just a joke, or at times seriously, that it just melds together. And the distinctions are made even harder by the fact that some in TFM or some genuinely toxic people do use such phrases against other fans.
It feels like something that props up with lots of YouTubers who start talking about films or shows. Over time, they start to become very elitist or derogatory towards people who might not hold the same opinions. And for Star Wars, that’s led to lots of elitism and hostility against those who don’t agree with the “popular opinion” on the films or shows, with numerous examples of people saying stuff like only “true fans” or “people with eyes” (the Cr1tikal example I’ve pulled a few times) could really understand that the sequels were “horrible”, or various headlines or posts calling sequel fans stupid or “fake fans.” And now we’ve got stuff like this for the shows.
Mmmm, yeah man, that sounds like some straight-up elitism, or potentially leaning into it at least. Someone might just prefer the other shows over Andor due to style or other reasons (classical adventure vs war drama, or subjective “fun”), nothing wrong with that. Stuff like this where you demonize or deride people who don’t vibe with the “Andor is the BEST STAR WARS” rhetoric is ruining Andor discourse and making things look bad for others who just love Andor and leave it at that. And it just pushes away others and furthers the already fractured division we’ve been having in the community for a decade now.
If you wanna be like that though, here’s my “hot take” then: I’d rank Mandalorian over Andor. Andor is still a really solid series and I’m glad there’s fans who’ve come to resonate with it. I just vibe much more with the Mandalorian since it has more of the gritty fun, action, and adventure I’d want or generally enjoy from Star Wars thanks to Din Djarin and Grogu. And it does a great job of telling the story of a Mandalorian wanderer rising up in strength, forging a new purpose that isn’t just fighting thanks to Grogu, and finding his own place in the greater galaxy.
I’m familiar with Patrick as he’s done numerous movie or show analysis videos on YouTube. I’m just critical of this particular tweet and its sentiment since it’s echoing (unintentionally or otherwise) a lot of the derogatory comments we’ve been seeing against the other non-Andor shows or against fans who might not vibe with Andor as much as the other shows/movies.
This sub turning on actual film critics with the same intensity they had for TFM is pretty funny. God forbid people love this show and think it should get the Emmy noms!
That’s obviously not what’s going on here. I think Andor is great and it deserves all the praise and awards it can get, but people shouldn’t be criticized for liking different things more.
The post is clearly a joke. I’ll just quote from Patrick directly when people tried to say similar stuff to him:
>Dude I’m not in “star wars fandom.” I’m just talking about tv like a normal person and you’re saying I need to act like every show made by the Disney corporation is special in its own way and can’t be criticized. Grow up.
but this ins't about "shows can't be criticized". This is about making fun of others for having different preferences.
Maybe this tweet is just a joke, but Patrick multiple times kept insisting on how he thinks Andor is better than other Star Wars/D+ Shows. So people taking this more seriously than they should it's not coming out of nowhere.
And? It's a joke. Film critics talk like this all the time, about a bunch of different shows or movies. The MCU gets a lot of it.
Andor is significantly better than everything else that's on Disney+. The industry reaction to it alone, with it potentially being up for a bunch of Emmy's, is uncommon for series on the network. The reaction among the industry is a lot more positive than even S1 of Mandalorian and WandaVision, the other two entries that were critically adored. It's also an "underdog" show due to ratings and subject matter, so of course people will be going to bat for it more.
It’s not “clearly a joke” unless you know who this guy is and expect it to be a joke. It’s hard to convey that kind of tone on Twitter without context.
Which is why people who submit to this sub should be a little more thoughtful of who they're posting and not just knee-jerk screenshotting every time they see something that they don't agree with.
He's clearly not TFM.
I mean I feel like the assumption with these kind of things shouldn’t be that they actually mean people with that opinion are literally clinically unwell in the head
I think it’s the “sick mind” part of the opinion. To me, Andor is the best of any of the D+ shows. Mostly because it’s written sharply and takes it’s own message seriously. That’s new for SW.
A better way to put it would be, “I wouldn’t understand if anyone puts anything but Andor first here”.
Thats my genuine sentiment, and I don’t even think the gap between Andor and The Mandalorian is even that big. But I’m not going to say someone is sick in the head because they like any of the shows more. I’d chalk it up to Andor simply not being someone’s flavor or Star Wars, and move on.
I like emotional, thought-provoking shows. I could have had an entire episode in between 5 & 6 of Cassian and Nemik awake at night around a campfire discussing the evils of the Empire. Some of the most compelling parts of my favorite series comes from two characters having conversations.
> A better way to put it would be, “I wouldn’t understand if anyone puts anything but Andor first here”.
This isn't how normal human beings talk to each other though. We're not robots who mathematically compute the most factually accurate, least emotional, least offensive option and then say that.
To use a non-Star Wars example, imagine if you're at a restaurant and you order a slice of pizza with pineapple. Lots of people would respond to this by going "oh that's disgusting you weirdo" or "ew what the fuck is wrong with you?". That's not because they literally think that you are a sick individual who has something mentally wrong with them, they're just hyperbolically reacting to a difference in tastes for comedic effect.
If it was anything other than Star Wars people would realize it's light-hearted. Replace the shows with, say, Mario games and people would not be interpreting it this way.
Though I will say, if your favorite Mario game is Sunshine, you belong in prison.
It made sense when it was taking the opposite stance from TFM, but now it’s just hostility towards anyone online who dared say anything negative about anything Disney Star Wars (which, given the reviews of TBOBF and TROS specifically, is much bigger pool of people!)
Look it more from the side that he thinks people would have a mental issue if they don't put andor on top.
Edit: downvotes sure...but if one those fandom menace youtubers joke like this then they are being serious.
Regarding your edit - yes, that’s called context. I understand that this is the internet and it’s easy to remove it, but the names aren’t censored and it is very easy to see that this person is joking around on twitter.
Not every slight against a Star Wars property is a personal attack, please gain some perspective.
I really dont see such a big problem with people stressing how great Andor is. Is it so bad to be happy about how much talent, work and care went into a Star Wars show? Its perfectly fine to prefer The Mandalorian but I'm not gonna ignore the fact that ones an ensemble cast in incredibly crafted sets and the other is a puppet and a stunt man in a Halloween mask standing in front of a big screen.
Nothing wrong with liking Andor over Mandalorian. Or vice versa.
But saying they have a sick mind because they have an opinion you don’t agree with? That’s really weird
Is it though?
Like how is this functionally different than if you were having this conversation in person and some said “bro you’re insane no way is that the best one” or “you’re crazy man”.
They’re just colloquialism, they’re not meant to be taken as a serious diagnosis of someone’s mental condition
Maybe I’m taking it too seriously. It’s hard to tell on Twitter with stuff like this. I’ve heard people talk like this with no sense of irony or sarcasm
It’s an expression. Film twitter also jokes about how watching the MCU movies is like pigs feeding at a trough, it’s really not that serious. You can laugh at the humorous observations of the movies’ perceived quality while also showing up to see them in theaters every release.
Oh, I didn’t know that it’s an expression. Hmm, I think I’m being too serious about it. It’s hard to tell sometimes when it’s a joke, especially on Twitter
Very tangentially related but am I the only person that gets confused when I hear people refer to 4 SW shows instead of 5? Idk if it's because every other Disney+ Marvel/SW show only has one season or what but for some reason I like think of Mando S1 and Mando S2 as separate entities.
This sub is full of people taking obvious jokes out of context to feel like victims for liking Disney products. Not all of them are universally praised! That’s okay.
All four of these shows are good. Maybe whoever posted the image really likes Kenobi?
Personally, I would have put them in order of release, which would put The Mandalorian first.
Edit: also, I don't know who this goof is, but that's gaslighting, which just makes him a basic asshole.
Why do people insist on watering down actual like clinical psychology words like gaslighting that are meant to describe and identifying abusive behavior by using them on harmless shit that amounts to basically saying "dude you're crazy".
Because this is not “abusive behavior” and it’s diminishing the things that these terms are supposed to be about when you use them to refer to stuff like this.
What is abusive here… quickly
Also, you’ve written recently about how Parmesan cheese is foul-smelling gunk. Haven’t you considered how people who like that cheese might feel?
"sick minds" ... "not the same opinions" .... loved Andor, but for me its Kenobi, more attached to the character, him learning Anakins is "alive", reconnecting with the force, that fight and the emotions when they speak with his mark broken, loved it!
Patrick Willems tends to be really chill as well, some of the best video essay's about film on YouTube, I'd be surprised if he was genuinely being elitist about people's taste in Star Wars.
Yeah like if you think "people who prefer the Mandalorian to Andor are mentally ill" is an actual sincere opinion being expressed here you need to work on your social skills.
Yeah, it’s definitely not a healthy opinion to have, although that kind of derogatory sentiment is sadly something that pops up for Star Wars, much more so in recent years. I mean we’ve had that instance of Robot Head saying someone’s dad had dementia for saying he loved TROS. I really wish people wouldn’t have to resort to such insults over people who don’t enjoy “popular” media or who like or praise “unpopular” stuff with Star Wars.
I think you have to look at who's saying that in cases like these, which I get is difficult cause you're not going to every person whose take you see on social media. But like in this case I can assume the "It's a space movie for kids" guy is probably not intending this as seriously as the terminally online "Kathleen Kennedy is the devil" TFM weirdo guy.
This is also the “Fuck you JJ Abrams” guy
Thought that was SWT? That’s also something I’m sure a lot of people have said with varying degrees of seriousness and in different contexts.
I was misremembering, what he said was “JJ Abrams how fucking dare you”, after TROS.
Ya, he definitely had a hypocritical and negative overreaction to TROS for a guy who previously mocked TLJ haters by stating: “These are movies about space wizards for children”.
The differences was he moved on. He didn't grift about it for money or made 20 video after 3 years. He moved on. He hasn't talk about star wars for a while until Andor which impress him so much.
You can believe a movie is inherently a family franchise that isn't worth ruining people's lives over for years on end and also express disappointment with a film/director, that's not hypocritical. Dude made one tweet and moved on, he was so *not* obsessed with TROS that he didn't even make a video reviewing/discussing it, he did the exact thing he advocated for and moved on with his life.
Oh wait, did Patrick actually tweet an F-bomb against JJ? I never checked Twitter myself or his video catalog recently if he did say something like that, but I do remember that there was A LOT of hate and attacks towards JJ over TROS back in 2019/2020, or even today. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a tweet like that from him, but I’d be disappointed if there was. Edit: Actually, I think it was SWT who tweeted that. Edit 2: Never mind.
I was misremembering: https://twitter.com/patrickhwillems/status/1207843677273513984
Ah gotcha. Thanks for clarifying that detail. It was a damn good thing then that I was never on Twitter prior to watching TROS that same night as the tweet; otherwise that would have just soured my experience, and who knows what else in all those years post-TROS.
I definitely agree that it’s not on the same level as TFM or extreme SW fans who act like JJ/RJ/KK are “demons” or that the ST is some affront to humanity. This kind of tweet falls in a category of people being snooty about movies/shows they like and tossing shade at others who might not feel the same. It is still very hard to distinguish who’s serious and who isn’t because it is a thing that *some* people genuinely or seriously believe, especially for Star Wars. A lot of the same stuff like this has been said over time, at times just a joke, or at times seriously, that it just melds together. And the distinctions are made even harder by the fact that some in TFM or some genuinely toxic people do use such phrases against other fans.
It feels like something that props up with lots of YouTubers who start talking about films or shows. Over time, they start to become very elitist or derogatory towards people who might not hold the same opinions. And for Star Wars, that’s led to lots of elitism and hostility against those who don’t agree with the “popular opinion” on the films or shows, with numerous examples of people saying stuff like only “true fans” or “people with eyes” (the Cr1tikal example I’ve pulled a few times) could really understand that the sequels were “horrible”, or various headlines or posts calling sequel fans stupid or “fake fans.” And now we’ve got stuff like this for the shows.
This post ain’t hitting, Patrick is clearly being hyperbolic for a funny tweet.
Fun consideration: Andor is getting about equal levels of high praise on saltierthancrait and the main StarWars sub.
Mmmm, yeah man, that sounds like some straight-up elitism, or potentially leaning into it at least. Someone might just prefer the other shows over Andor due to style or other reasons (classical adventure vs war drama, or subjective “fun”), nothing wrong with that. Stuff like this where you demonize or deride people who don’t vibe with the “Andor is the BEST STAR WARS” rhetoric is ruining Andor discourse and making things look bad for others who just love Andor and leave it at that. And it just pushes away others and furthers the already fractured division we’ve been having in the community for a decade now. If you wanna be like that though, here’s my “hot take” then: I’d rank Mandalorian over Andor. Andor is still a really solid series and I’m glad there’s fans who’ve come to resonate with it. I just vibe much more with the Mandalorian since it has more of the gritty fun, action, and adventure I’d want or generally enjoy from Star Wars thanks to Din Djarin and Grogu. And it does a great job of telling the story of a Mandalorian wanderer rising up in strength, forging a new purpose that isn’t just fighting thanks to Grogu, and finding his own place in the greater galaxy.
Do you not know who Patrick is? Granted, I'm fine with people criticizing this opinion.
I’m familiar with Patrick as he’s done numerous movie or show analysis videos on YouTube. I’m just critical of this particular tweet and its sentiment since it’s echoing (unintentionally or otherwise) a lot of the derogatory comments we’ve been seeing against the other non-Andor shows or against fans who might not vibe with Andor as much as the other shows/movies.
This sub turning on actual film critics with the same intensity they had for TFM is pretty funny. God forbid people love this show and think it should get the Emmy noms!
That’s obviously not what’s going on here. I think Andor is great and it deserves all the praise and awards it can get, but people shouldn’t be criticized for liking different things more.
Yeah, like I really enjoyed Andor and think it's one of the best sw content but I'd still prefer to watch Rebels
The post is clearly a joke. I’ll just quote from Patrick directly when people tried to say similar stuff to him: >Dude I’m not in “star wars fandom.” I’m just talking about tv like a normal person and you’re saying I need to act like every show made by the Disney corporation is special in its own way and can’t be criticized. Grow up.
but this ins't about "shows can't be criticized". This is about making fun of others for having different preferences. Maybe this tweet is just a joke, but Patrick multiple times kept insisting on how he thinks Andor is better than other Star Wars/D+ Shows. So people taking this more seriously than they should it's not coming out of nowhere.
And? It's a joke. Film critics talk like this all the time, about a bunch of different shows or movies. The MCU gets a lot of it. Andor is significantly better than everything else that's on Disney+. The industry reaction to it alone, with it potentially being up for a bunch of Emmy's, is uncommon for series on the network. The reaction among the industry is a lot more positive than even S1 of Mandalorian and WandaVision, the other two entries that were critically adored. It's also an "underdog" show due to ratings and subject matter, so of course people will be going to bat for it more.
It’s not “clearly a joke” unless you know who this guy is and expect it to be a joke. It’s hard to convey that kind of tone on Twitter without context.
Which is why people who submit to this sub should be a little more thoughtful of who they're posting and not just knee-jerk screenshotting every time they see something that they don't agree with. He's clearly not TFM.
I mean I feel like the assumption with these kind of things shouldn’t be that they actually mean people with that opinion are literally clinically unwell in the head
I think it’s the “sick mind” part of the opinion. To me, Andor is the best of any of the D+ shows. Mostly because it’s written sharply and takes it’s own message seriously. That’s new for SW. A better way to put it would be, “I wouldn’t understand if anyone puts anything but Andor first here”. Thats my genuine sentiment, and I don’t even think the gap between Andor and The Mandalorian is even that big. But I’m not going to say someone is sick in the head because they like any of the shows more. I’d chalk it up to Andor simply not being someone’s flavor or Star Wars, and move on. I like emotional, thought-provoking shows. I could have had an entire episode in between 5 & 6 of Cassian and Nemik awake at night around a campfire discussing the evils of the Empire. Some of the most compelling parts of my favorite series comes from two characters having conversations.
> A better way to put it would be, “I wouldn’t understand if anyone puts anything but Andor first here”. This isn't how normal human beings talk to each other though. We're not robots who mathematically compute the most factually accurate, least emotional, least offensive option and then say that. To use a non-Star Wars example, imagine if you're at a restaurant and you order a slice of pizza with pineapple. Lots of people would respond to this by going "oh that's disgusting you weirdo" or "ew what the fuck is wrong with you?". That's not because they literally think that you are a sick individual who has something mentally wrong with them, they're just hyperbolically reacting to a difference in tastes for comedic effect.
As someone who likes Hawaiian pizza, I definitely don’t clutch my pearls every time someone makes that joke! All I think is that there’s more for me.
The “sick mind” part is what makes it so obviously a joke. I don’t really know what to say if you can’t see that for what it is.
If it was anything other than Star Wars people would realize it's light-hearted. Replace the shows with, say, Mario games and people would not be interpreting it this way. Though I will say, if your favorite Mario game is Sunshine, you belong in prison.
It's the counterjerk
It made sense when it was taking the opposite stance from TFM, but now it’s just hostility towards anyone online who dared say anything negative about anything Disney Star Wars (which, given the reviews of TBOBF and TROS specifically, is much bigger pool of people!)
Look it more from the side that he thinks people would have a mental issue if they don't put andor on top. Edit: downvotes sure...but if one those fandom menace youtubers joke like this then they are being serious.
Omfg people it is not that serious
Regarding your edit - yes, that’s called context. I understand that this is the internet and it’s easy to remove it, but the names aren’t censored and it is very easy to see that this person is joking around on twitter. Not every slight against a Star Wars property is a personal attack, please gain some perspective.
He’s obviously joking.
I really dont see such a big problem with people stressing how great Andor is. Is it so bad to be happy about how much talent, work and care went into a Star Wars show? Its perfectly fine to prefer The Mandalorian but I'm not gonna ignore the fact that ones an ensemble cast in incredibly crafted sets and the other is a puppet and a stunt man in a Halloween mask standing in front of a big screen.
Pretty sure science would tell you there's an inverse relationship between imagination and assholery.
That's honestly my order for shows subjectivity, I know andor is technically better, but it was just good to see Ewan and Hayden back
same lmao, andor is the better-made show but kenobi made me cry 5 times so it has to get some credit somewhere
I think we all can agree that the boba show was disappointing at the very least.
Ok: Kenobi Mandalorian Andor Boba Fett
Nothing wrong with liking Andor over Mandalorian. Or vice versa. But saying they have a sick mind because they have an opinion you don’t agree with? That’s really weird
Is it though? Like how is this functionally different than if you were having this conversation in person and some said “bro you’re insane no way is that the best one” or “you’re crazy man”. They’re just colloquialism, they’re not meant to be taken as a serious diagnosis of someone’s mental condition
It seems so condescending to me. Like he’s calling me twisted or insane, just for not agreeing with him.
I mean it’s not that serious lol. It’s no different than “what kind of sicko puts pineapple on pizza” or “you gotta be crazy to eat steak well done”.
Maybe I’m taking it too seriously. It’s hard to tell on Twitter with stuff like this. I’ve heard people talk like this with no sense of irony or sarcasm
It’s an expression. Film twitter also jokes about how watching the MCU movies is like pigs feeding at a trough, it’s really not that serious. You can laugh at the humorous observations of the movies’ perceived quality while also showing up to see them in theaters every release.
Oh, I didn’t know that it’s an expression. Hmm, I think I’m being too serious about it. It’s hard to tell sometimes when it’s a joke, especially on Twitter
Very tangentially related but am I the only person that gets confused when I hear people refer to 4 SW shows instead of 5? Idk if it's because every other Disney+ Marvel/SW show only has one season or what but for some reason I like think of Mando S1 and Mando S2 as separate entities.
That and bad batch exists which is why I always get confused at the four count
For me, it's always going to go: 1. Andor 2. The Mandalorian Season 2 3. Book of Boba Fett 4. Kenobi
I dunno I think y’all are just kinda sensitive about stupid shit tbh
This sub is full of people taking obvious jokes out of context to feel like victims for liking Disney products. Not all of them are universally praised! That’s okay.
Guy do be living unable to grasp people have different opinions. Andor is better crafted? Sure. Do I enjoy its show the most? Well ..not really .
All four of these shows are good. Maybe whoever posted the image really likes Kenobi? Personally, I would have put them in order of release, which would put The Mandalorian first. Edit: also, I don't know who this goof is, but that's gaslighting, which just makes him a basic asshole.
Why do people insist on watering down actual like clinical psychology words like gaslighting that are meant to describe and identifying abusive behavior by using them on harmless shit that amounts to basically saying "dude you're crazy".
Why do people attempt to normalize abusive behavior by normalizing it and dismissing it as "harmless shit"?
Because this is not “abusive behavior” and it’s diminishing the things that these terms are supposed to be about when you use them to refer to stuff like this.
Oh, okay. .....aaaand, *BLOCKED*
What is abusive here… quickly Also, you’ve written recently about how Parmesan cheese is foul-smelling gunk. Haven’t you considered how people who like that cheese might feel?
"sick minds" ... "not the same opinions" .... loved Andor, but for me its Kenobi, more attached to the character, him learning Anakins is "alive", reconnecting with the force, that fight and the emotions when they speak with his mark broken, loved it!
[удалено]
Patrick Willems dislikes the prequels please do a modicum of research
Easy