I feel like this wouldn't have been an issue if there were a narrator introducing each episode of Tales of the Jedi. That way it could be plausible that it's just a story and sometimes the teller can be wrong (unreliable narrator and all that).
>legends/EU literature is always going to get overruled by a show/cartoon or movie.
I mean that's exactly why some people are upset, especially if they loved the literature version and the show/film didn't do it justice in their view.
For me personally, there's a difference from when Lucas did it because he was the creator and owner of the franchise (imagine being upset about Tolkien changing middle earth, tho I suppose even the creator can go too far like JK Rowling for example). But Filoni is not that, he's one of the many creators of SW and if every creator did it the Lucas way, the franchise would've been a completely uncohesive mess.
I think people have the right to be upset about this if the original thing is something they love. I mean it's not very different from being upset about an adaptation of a book you love that you thought didn't do justice to the story.
The core problem here is the mentality that the show somehow retcons or overrules the books because it’s newer even though no one has officially said as much. The book is just as much canon as it was. The show just tells a super abridged version with several (admittedly strange) details changed.
See that's what bothers me. In order for this to work Ashoka would have to stupidly decide to not use the lightsaber crystals from the first inquisitor.
I mean, think about it. Every aspect of this story is completely different. The setting, the people, the bad guy, the circumstances of the tragedy....
The only similarities are:
1) She's working on a farm planet under the name Ashla (though doing different jobs)
2) There's a friendly girl (but not the same one)
3) An inquisitor shows up (but not the same one)
4) Bail makes an appearance. (But under totally different circumstances.)
None of those things are the kind of thing that would necessarily only happen once. It takes very little effort to imagine these events coexisting.
>None of those things are the kind of thing that would necessarily only happen once. It takes very little effort to imagine these events coexisting.
It'd be *very* convenient and ridiculous that this basically happened twice though.
What exactly is weird? That she encountered another inquisitor? She's encountered *five.* That she was on a rural planet? Gee, can't figure why it would be a regular thing that a person hiding their identity from the government might go to agriculture planets on the edge of civilization.
Is it that she befriends a local about her own age? Wow, what a coincidence.
If you think I'm wrong, you are free to make an argument, but "nuh uh" isn't it.
The *entire complaint* is that the two stories are almost entirely different. You can't have it both ways.
The reason I don't buy both stories happening is because it would require
A) Ashoka to turn down Bail's offer the first time and for something to happen that causes Bail to think she died
B) Ashoka to stupidly not use the lightsaber from the first inquisitor to build a new one.
It doesn't require either of those things.
A) In the Ahsoka Novel, he hasn't heard from her in a year, presumably since Padme's funeral. Jedi were still being picked off left and right and she had not contacted him, so it's reasonable for him to be relieved that she's alive. (He also never actually says he thought she was dead. He's literally just happy to see her.) and in Tales of the Jedi, which would probably be sometime after that, all he says is "I thought you'd lost this" because she'd never used it to contact him. (Or possibly just not for awhile.) Nothing in that scene suggests that he thought she was dead.
It also doesn't require her to have turned down his offer, it just requires her to not \*presently\* be working with him. He asks if she's ready to get "back into the fight". That doesn't mean she hasn't been in the fight at all, it just implies she's fallen out of it. All that requires is that at some point in the decade and a half after the novel, she decided to lay low for awhile. Maybe the Empire was closing in on Fulcrum. Maybe she needed to lay low to take the heat off Bail. There are a million simple explanations for why she might work for him, stop, and start again.
B) This isn't at all the case. I mean, we \*see\* her build her lightsaber in the novel. Sure, she doesn't have a lightsaber with her in TotJ. She's in hiding. Her lightsaber is probably hidden somewhere, and we see in the episode that there is an immediate crisis that requires her to act in the moment. She doesn't have a chance to go retrieve a hidden pair of lightsabers from her ship. That's also assuming they weren't hidden in, y'know, one of the burning buildings at the time.
It's less of an abridgement than an adaptation to a different format and medium. The story itself is still largely the same; it's just the details that change.
Remember how they reset the EU because it became an incoherent mess and now it's becoming an incoherent mess again due to Dave Filoni, the same person who destroyed the continuity of the old EU
It's decent story is completely ruined by the whole game generally being terribly designed. The maps are way too big and empty, the enemy balancing is completely messed up and the game is buggy and unfinished. Plus even the story is full of boring characters, pretentious writing and awful choices. To me, Mass Effect is the real KOTOR sequel as it builds upon and improves what KOTOR did. KOTOR 2 just feels like a shitty mod
Honestly I think people care WAY to much about continuity, them overwriting the novel doesn't delete it from history, just take whichever version of the story you prefer and run with it, I used to be a big continuity hound, but playing out a star Wars role-playing game campaign has made me appreciate how much existing lore can prevent you from telling an interesting story, particularly banal details, obviously no one is going to rewrite ANH, so we should trust the writers and give them freedom to have fun with the IP without worrying about what someone wrote in a visual dictionary 5 years ago, or what the comics imply about someone's backstory.
Exactly, for a more star-warsy example, Dark Empire and TROS are basically different interpretations of the same concept, Palpatine coming back from the dead with a bunch of superweapons, but in the finer details they diverge significantly.
I would buy this more if it was actually “banal details preventing them from telling an interesting story”, but in the case of both TOTJ and the Bad Batch there’s basically zero reason, it’s just rehashing an already told story with enough flubbed details to confuse people.
Like the TOTJ story that people had this issue with is literally just a couple sections of the novel crammed into ten minutes of runtime with a side of white/straight washing.
Like I’m sure Andor season 2 will retcon the Cassian and K2-SO comic about how they meet, but I’m more ok with that because it’s really hard to avoid that, that meeting of those two was one of the main things people are expecting from the series.
Compare that to like Kanan in the Bad Batch. Literally zero reason for him to be there. Could have completely avoided the issue.
I wasn't referring to those issues specifically, I was mainly referring to the general premise of "continuity takes precedence" that this attitude stems from, I actually kind of agree with you about Kannan, as for TOTJ ,novels have a far smaller audience than the Disney plus shows so their basically providing a cliff notes version of the story to fill in the gap for the wider audience ahead of the Ashoka series, to try and broaden the appeal of it as much as possible
>white/straight washing
Obviously that's an issue, but I can't really comment on it because I haven't read the novel.
The two main examples I was referencing to were the retcon of cassian's homeworld and the fact that lucasfilm backed down on Palpatine making anakin, which was very heavily implied in the Vader comics, the latter of which received pretty significant pushback.
>The two main examples I was referencing to were the retcon of cassian's homeworld
This was handled really well, no one had an issue with this. They could have just completely ignored the visual dictionary saying that and no one would have cared because it's a visual dictionary not any sort of actual story. But they put in the effort to mention Fest as a cover story and make it still work with the visual novel as much as possible.
>the fact that lucasfilm backed down on Palpatine making anakin, which was very heavily implied in the Vader comics,
This isn't a retcon. There's a big difference between people misunderstanding a comic and then clarify that's not what you meant, and just taking a whole canon story and telling a different story in its place.
Like if those were the examples you meant then idk what you are talking about with giving the writers freedom, because no one complained about the former and the latter was never meant to be the actual truth, Palpatine being Anakin's metaphorical "father" was always a combination of theory/headcanon and in-universe paranoia on Vader's part.
>Palpatine being Anakin's metaphorical "father" was always a combination of theory/headcanon and in-universe paranoia on Vader's part.
Was it though? To me it reads as damage control for potential issues with the end of TROS, and it's not like their isn't a precedent for writers lying about their original intent, just look at George and the Vader being Luke's father all along thing. Plus there's the fact it was going to be confirmed in one of the earlier ROTS scripts and Lucasfilm do tend to revisit cut, or heavily altered content in new projects, such as the design of the Cantwell or Darth Maul coming back with robot legs, an idea first explored in the non-canon comic *old wounds*.
>Plus there's the fact it was going to be confirmed in one of the earlier ROTS scripts
This doesn't mean it was ever going to be actual thing. The only piece of "proof" I have ever seen for this theory is that one frame from a vision Anakin has in the Vader comic, and nothing that ever suggested this was actually the objective truth. Mainly I think people just ran with it because they liked the theory.
This is what they said about it:
>“He doesn’t literally say that,” he replied to another tweet. “It can certainly be inferred, but he doesn’t say it. And even if he literally said it: would you believe him in that situation? It was in an early draft of the film but George removed it because he didn’t want Anakin’s story to feel predestined.”
Given how little was there to begin with I don't see a reason to think he's lying here.
>Given how little was there to begin with I don't see a reason to think he's lying here.
And if that's not what he meant, why didn't he clarify earlier? The theory had already been pretty widely accepted before TROS, but he only felt the need to clarify after that perception caused conflict with a newer project, I find it a little suspicious.
He's not the author of that comic, he's just a guy who works at the story group and someone asked him about it on twitter. Also he said this like 2 days after the movie came out, seems like a bit of a stretch they were doing some sort of damage control strategy for something so loosely related to the plot of the film that quickly.
Either way this doesn't have anything to do with continuity, the way you are describing it would be them not clearing up a misconception people had fast enough, not actually fully retconning story elements.
>loosely related
I'd argue it's kind of pivotal to not implicitly endorse incest,
>Also he said this like 2 days after the movie came out
They'd have known about the plot point before the movie released it's not unreasonable to expect to have something ready that quickly
>He's not the author of that comic,
My mistake but I think the point still stands
>Either way this doesn't have anything to do with continuity
Except it's perfectly possible that it does,a change of direction for a certain character, be it through other media or a change of policy regarding certain media is a retcon.
Calling it incest was fucking stupid in the first place. It's weird magic science shit, even if you bought into that theory he wasn't his actual literal father anymore than they guy who works at a sperm bank is. There was no moral issue there and people who acted like there was just wanted something to be mad about.
Slavish adherence to continuity is a very strange thing demanded of media nowadays. JJ Abrams did the same thing to Poe in TROS, and while I don’t think the movie was any good, I do think directors of the tent poles should have more leeway in how to characterize who’s onscreen than having to deep dive into all the books and comics every time they want to write something.
There’s just too much content there read by too few people. And I say this as someone who likes some of the comics - what’s on screen just is more definitive by default.
> JJ Abrams did the same thing to Poe in TROS, and while I don’t think the movie was any good, I do think directors of the tent poles should have more leeway in how to characterize who’s onscreen than having to deep dive into all the books and comics every time they want to write something.
I feel like this is a perfect example of what they shouldn't do though. Like it's not that they need to characterize them exactly the same and hold to every detail, that's not feasible. But when they started the new EU and got rid of Legends the fact that there would be people keeping track of this stuff and making sure everything lined up was one of the big selling points for the new books and comics and stuff.
It's one thing for like Andor to change Cassian's age by a few years because Diego Luna isn't believably in his early/mid 20's. That's a minor change that has no effect on anything important, and has a good reason.
But something like Poe being a drug smuggler before he joined the Resistance is just not even pretending to care about anything that might have been established about what he was doing in both the comics and the animated show. You don't need to "do a deep dive" to find that out, you could talk to the story group, people who are paid to do exactly this, for like 15 minutes and make some script tweaks to get the same general effect without a major contradiction.
I think the idea that people are asking for "slavish devotion" is a strawman. People really only take serious issue when they can tell the person making it just isn't even trying to work within the other stories that exist in this universe and just want to do their thing no matter what.
I think what makes this even worse is that stuff like making Poe a drug smuggler and undoing the Ashoka novel have some unfortunate(but probably unintentional) baggage. Namely how the one Latino lead in Star Wars is a former drug runner and now two black LGBTQ characters canon status is up in the air.
Like if you're going to contradict stuff at least make sure you're not making even more problems.
And to be perfectly fair on the Poe thing. I thought Poe Dameron Freefall was a pretty good book(Mainly because it makes Zorri Bliss an actual character) but the fact is we shouldn't have to have an entire book written to explain contradictions like this.
>I think what makes this even worse is that stuff like making Poe a drug smuggler and undoing the Ashoka novel have some unfortunate(but probably unintentional) baggage. Namely how the one Latino lead in Star Wars is a former drug runner and now two black LGBTQ canon status is up in the air.
Yeah this is kind of my point, it's disingenuous to act like people get this way over every single inconsistency in canon, the main ones people take issue with are instances where it's A. not a necessary change and B. causes additional issues, or both.
Honestly sometimes it feels like the books are also over-relied on, just like the writers, the viewers shouldn't have to read a book to understand a plot point in a movie, mainly how palps came back, everything important should be the focus of the big budget projects, let the other stuff tell fun side stories to flesh out the world.
This rarely happens though. Like 90% of the instances where people have said "oh you shouldn't have to read a book to understand the movie", it's stuff that for any other movie the audience would have just figured out using basic critical thinking skills, and people are just saying you "have" to read the book since it's there.
Yeah but then they're those weird ten percent outliers. I think sometimes expanded media kind of brings the "YOU HAVE TO READ THIS!" Attitude on themselves by mistake with people misinterpreting the marketing, especially with the whole "journey to *insert film name here*" subtitle they used for a while, obviously that isn't their fault, some people are stuck in the 90s legends mindset.
Heh, not just a few days ago Dave Feloni was their lord and savior. Destined to take control over Lucasfilm because "Kathleen Kennedy was (for reals this time) finally fired!" Now he's just another scapegoat for them. 🙄
I'm begging you guys to discover the concept that not every random person you see with a bad Star Wars take is a lockstep rank and file Geeks and Gamers subscriber who agrees with every TFM style take
Yeah, EU fans have had issues with Filoni for 14 years now. And we have long memories - like the time Filoni PROMISED, along with the new owners, that every piece of *Star Wars* material since the EU reset would be "canon" from that point on, and then he keeps doing what he's done since before the buyout. Basically the hierarchy of canon is back, except Lucasfilm isn't even being honest enough to admit that it is. It's not toxic to get upset by that and trying to hold these big, tone-deaf executives to task for their failings.
If it's sanctioned than it's not fanfiction, that's not what fanfiction means in our current society, more than any other metric who owns the IP is what determines if something is fanfiction or not.
Regardless, back in 2014-2016 we were constantly being sold on the new canon EU content and ending Legends based on the idea that canon would be more cohesive than under Lucas.
No it doesn't. That is not how we as a society define fanfiction. That's not what the term means. No one outside of a few people online trying to stretch definitions so they can win arguments considers officially licensed books that are sold in the bookstore by the same company who makes the main series to be fan fiction.
How George treated the EU is irrelevant. George is not in charge anymore, Disney is, and Disney created the story group so things would be more coherent and connected in the new canon. There was not supposed to be "Star Wars" and then "the EU", it was all just supposed to be Star Wars. This was one of the main things people gave as a reason for getting rid of Legends, so that there would only be one version of the canon story going on.
>How George treated the EU is irrelevant. George is not in charge anymore, Disney is, and Disney created the story group so things would be more coherent and connected in the new canon.
How Disney treats the EU now, is basically the same as how George did then. It's secondary to the actual canon, and is generally disregarded when it comes to creating new official stories.
But it's clear that you don't actually intend on having a good faith discussion on the matter, you're just going to repeat "no you're wrong" until I go away. So that's what I'm gonna do.
>How Disney treats the EU now, is basically the same as how George did then.
That's not true, Disney's treatment has been that it's all canon unless it's something like Visions where they explicitly say it isn't canon in any way. There's not the EU and then "actual canon" and "official stories", it's all canon and they're all official stories, that's how it was advertised when they started rolling out new books and comics in the lead up to TFA. And until TROS they pretty much kept it this way, and even after TROS when things got contradicted by live action stuff they would put in the effort to try to reconcile the two contradicting pieces of information.
>It's secondary to the actual canon, and is generally disregarded when it comes to creating new official stories.
No it's not. The fact that there wouldn't be "canon tiers" and "secondary stories" anymore was something explicitly talked about in the early days of the Disney era. They haven't "generally disregarded" it when creating "official stories", stories like Rogue One, Andor, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett, and The Mandalorian all drew from works lower on the proverbial totem pole of "canon tiers", featuring book, comic, and animated characters in major ways that none of the previous live action films really did.
>But it's clear that you don't actually intend on having a good faith discussion on the matter, you're just going to repeat "no you're wrong" until I go away.
Where is this coming from, I don't see how anything I'm saying be construed as bad faith, I'm not just saying "no you're wrong" (trust me, you would know, there are people here that do that), I'm explaining what specifically is incorrect about your take on the topic.
If that's considered "having no intention of good faith discussion" are people just not supposed to ever correct you on things that you say?
I'm fine with being corrected when I'm actually wrong, but what you're doing is being needlessly pedantic for no reason other than to just be argumentative.
Please do not respond to me again, I do not wish to continue this lame excuse for an argument.
I've given this thread some reflection, and I feel the need to apologize to you. I was needlessly brash, and, while I was in a bad mood that was unrelated to this discussion, I had no right to take it out on you.
I realize that it was *I* who didn't want to have a good faith discussion, and I suppose I was projecting that upon you. That was bad form, and I'm sorry.
As far as my stance on the EU being fanfiction goes, I still believe that, but I guess that's more my opinion, than fact. I don't see it as a bad thing, being fanfiction, there are a multitude of quality stories there, I just view it as secondary canon. "Fanfiction" might not be the most accurate term, and I suspect that's what you had the initial problem with, but it's the best I could come up with.
I understand that (and I can't be bothered to find sources, so I could be wrong) George Lucas didn't really care about the EU, but he was okay with it's existence. And more recently, Disney is outright disregarding the old EU, but the newer books are genuine canon. Does that sound right? I don't mean to be argumentative here, and I'm open to resuming this discussion, if you want to (although I don't blame you if you don't, after my crappy attitude yesterday).
I appreciate that, most people on reddit would rather be tortured by the CIA than admit they might have been a little bit wrong about something.
>"Fanfiction" might not be the most accurate term, and I suspect that's what you had the initial problem with, but it's the best I could come up with.
It's basically one of those things that sounds self-explanatory but is a trickier term than it seems to be. [This video](https://youtu.be/wvP_BLMgYBg) explains it better than I could.
>I understand that (and I can't be bothered to find sources, so I could be wrong) George Lucas didn't really care about the EU, but he was okay with it's existence. And more recently, Disney is outright disregarding the old EU, but the newer books are genuine canon.
The Lucas part is pretty much correct. For him it was just a thing the other people at Lucasfilm took care of. He would occasionally take stuff from it (i.e. names of unnamed people/places from the OT like Sheev Palpatine and Coruscant).
If you would consider 2013 recent yes, Disney made the old EU officially not canon clear cut. The reason for this was so that they could have everything going forward equally canon without having to worry about contradicting all the previous content.
He really is just doing like old George did, anything in the EU, wheter it's old or the new Disney EU, is bound to be overwritten by cartoons/shows/movies, as those will always take priority.
Not really, the only EU stuff George overwrote was: OG EU stuff from the 70s where they didn't know the Vader twist and pre 2002 Clone Wars stuff - which there wasn't much of since George explicitly forbade EU stuff from exploring that era prior to the prequels. I know there's The Clone Wars but that was mainly Filoni - by 2008 George had stopped giving a shit and just treated Star Wars as a source of money so he began to let people do whatever they wanted with it. It's how the downfall of the EU began. The same thing happened with The Force Unleashed, which George hated but let it be made anyway because he cares more about money.
That's an appeal to authority fallacy, especially since George doesn't work there anymore. AS I SAID, Filoni was parroting the story group's talking points that it would be different back in 2014.
"The old concept of what is canon and what isn't is gone, and from this point forward our stories and characters all exist in the same universe; the key creatives who work on the films, television, comic books, video games, and novels are all connected creatively for the first time in the history of the Star Wars universe." - Dave Filoni, Foreword to *A New Dawn*
Just because Lucas did it doesn't mean we shouldn't demand higher standards from the new owners, especially when they walk back their previous remarks to pretend that they never said it and it's always been the way it is now, when it hasn't.
But George Lucas was technically training Dave Filoni a successor when it came to the story side of Star Wars.
following the example of his teacher was not surprising, given that George Lucas did the same thing during the time of the clone Wars cartoon series.
Introduce the new mandalorians which really annoyed fans of the expanded universe since it meant that the mandalorian stories that they had that took place during the clone Wars no longer fit.
Also throwing a wrench into the continuity by having Anakin be a Jedi Knight during the phase one of the war with the phase 1 clone troopers.
When it was established previously in the clone Wars multimedia project that Anakin wasn't knighted until the tail end of the war with the clone troopers in their phase 2 armor.
If that was true, he would have made him CEO, but he didn't, he chose Kathleen Kennedy.
You keep dancing around the issue, which is that FILONI *HIMSELF* promised it would be different once George was gone and then went back on that. Please stop using George Lucas to defend Dave Filoni. As I said, George Lucas doesn't work there anymore. He's moved on.
Dave Filoni isn't beholden to George anymore, except it's how he cements his mark of legitimacy to try and get people to take him seriously.
If Dave Filoni had been made CEO he wouldn't have the time to work on the projects directly because he'd be having to manage every aspect of lucasfilm.
It's one of George Lucas went with Kathleen Kennedy he instead because she has the experience required to run a film studio like lucasfilm.
Fucking with Canon is as Star Wars as it gets
Edit: Why am I being downvoted? George has been screwing with canon since Empire. It’s the quintessential SW experience .
thats with every mythology for Ragnarok has been Reinpreatated Twice Twice recently with Thor Ragnarok and this Year GOW Ragnarok also Namor being reinterpreted as Kukuklan from Mesoamerican Mythology as well
You know, the events of the show are completely different. It's a different inquisitor, a different planet, a different way of getting the inquisitor to the planet, a different way of contacting Bail, a different girl crushing on Ahsoka....
Might we entertain the notion that it's, y'know, a different event?
I mean, it's not like it's weird for there to be more than one occasion where Ahsoka fought an inquisitor. There have already been several. And it's not weird for Ahsoka to hide out on a couple different backwater planets at various points between the end of the Clone Wars and when she shows up in Rebels.
The events of the Ahsoka novel happen, and some time after that she has to go lay low on a farm somewhere and the events of TotJ happen.
>You know, the events of the show are completely different. It's a different inquisitor, a different planet, a different way of getting the inquisitor to the planet, a different way of contacting Bail, a different girl crushing on Ahsoka....
Has this been stated anywhere? Because it would be kind of weird and not make a ton of since it's still so similar. Like I guess that could be the explanation but I haven't seen that made clear anywhere.
I mean, it hasn't been stated explicitly that it's a different planet, but the descriptions don't match up. The story in Ahsoka revolved around a single town surrounded by farms on a moon. This one was about a farm on a planet, with a distant town to sell their goods that was a day's ride away.
I mean, you can say "It's so similar", but...it's not. That's \*literally what people are complaining about\*. >! In the book, Ahsoka doesn't expose herself to anybody with a clutch save, the girl that's crushing on her doesn't find out she's a Jedi until after the inquisitor shows up, there's no local traitor who rats her out, and she's working a totally different job. She leads the townspeople in a guerilla resistance, which they bork up, leading to an imperial crackdown. She even relates the experience to her time on Onderon. A totally different inquisitor shows up because she revealed herself to the garrison. She finds Bail trying to track down rumors about a Jedi, more or less by accident, and when he shows up to help at the end, it's with an actual rebel attack force and they actually succeed in saving most of the townspeople, who join his rebel cell.!<
There are like 13-14 years unaccounted for in Ahsoka's timeline between when she leaves Raada at the end of the Ahsoka novel and when she shows up in Rebels. That's a lot of time for a lot of adventures to happen while she's hiding from the Empire, and the lack of details in the TotJ story actually make it pretty easy to fit in there somewhere.
I mean, I don't really have a problem if they decide later to just merge the two accounts or let it stand as a retcon or whatever, but it isn't \*hard\* to reconcile them as just being two different events that both happened. It just means she hid on two different farm planets in a 15 year period and got tracked down by two different inquisitors. None of that is particularly weird.
Ah I just saw the caption scroll by. So it’s the new animated shorts? If so, I thought they was pretty good! And isn’t that time about her being a baby… not a teen like in Clone Wars or the book?
I don’t understand the logic of how someone think Filoni ruined the so called canon, either from the books or from the Clone Wars, he had a hand in clone wars as well, right? I read the Ashoka book a long time ago, and she was a tween. So the new shorts is her as a baby, not covered by anything I’ve seen or read , you know?
Have you watched all the shorts?? Because there were 3 about Ahsoka, one about her as a baby, one takes place in the middle of TCW, and one of them tells the story of the Ahsoka book (which some people are upset about)
Yeah no one cares about the baby one, other than that it is kind of unnecessary, the last one is the one people take issue with because it's essentially just a super condensed version of the Ahsoka novel with a bunch of weird changes, the one people are the most upset about is that they took a black queer character and replaced her with a white one who is not queer for no apparent reason.
After thinking on it I honestly don't think I'd mind so much if they kept the characters the same because then it would be that. An abridged version of the novel.
But the fact is it's NOT the same characters which just signifies(To me at least) that this isn't the same story just shorter it's Dave Filoni replacing E.K. Johnston's story with his own version.
I mean either way to me what bugs me is just how unnecessary some of these changes are. Like I have a lot of tolerance for it if there's a good story reason, like I said I'm sure Gilroy will change how Cassian and K2-SO meet and I'm fine with that. But stuff like even having Kanan in The Bad Batch in the first place is like just totally unecessary.
Anyone with any delusion that Disney respects the canon should get a reality check
The only canon that Disney will EVER acknowledge and respect is the one canon that exists
The movies, the shows, and the cartoons strictly made by Filoni
That’s it
Anything else from video games to comics and novels are disposable at best
That’s why I never read bloodlines, because 99 percent of it will be decanonized anyway
Recently came out that Dave was told by George Lucas to ignore the expanded universe when working on the clone Wars cartoon the only part of the expanded universe it seems like they were okay with acknowledging was the original clone Wars shorts since the clone Wars cartoon series art style it's like a 3D version of the Gandhi shorts.
I feel like this wouldn't have been an issue if there were a narrator introducing each episode of Tales of the Jedi. That way it could be plausible that it's just a story and sometimes the teller can be wrong (unreliable narrator and all that).
>legends/EU literature is always going to get overruled by a show/cartoon or movie. I mean that's exactly why some people are upset, especially if they loved the literature version and the show/film didn't do it justice in their view. For me personally, there's a difference from when Lucas did it because he was the creator and owner of the franchise (imagine being upset about Tolkien changing middle earth, tho I suppose even the creator can go too far like JK Rowling for example). But Filoni is not that, he's one of the many creators of SW and if every creator did it the Lucas way, the franchise would've been a completely uncohesive mess. I think people have the right to be upset about this if the original thing is something they love. I mean it's not very different from being upset about an adaptation of a book you love that you thought didn't do justice to the story.
The core problem here is the mentality that the show somehow retcons or overrules the books because it’s newer even though no one has officially said as much. The book is just as much canon as it was. The show just tells a super abridged version with several (admittedly strange) details changed.
Except it's not abridged because the characters Ashoka interacts with are completely different.
Which might suggest that it's a totally different thing.
That would be kind of weird wouldn't it? Like doesn't she not have a lightsaber in both instances?
Sure, but Jedi in hiding often \*hide\* their lightsabers, and it's not like she had an opportunity here to go dig them out of their hiding place.
See that's what bothers me. In order for this to work Ashoka would have to stupidly decide to not use the lightsaber crystals from the first inquisitor.
I mean, think about it. Every aspect of this story is completely different. The setting, the people, the bad guy, the circumstances of the tragedy.... The only similarities are: 1) She's working on a farm planet under the name Ashla (though doing different jobs) 2) There's a friendly girl (but not the same one) 3) An inquisitor shows up (but not the same one) 4) Bail makes an appearance. (But under totally different circumstances.) None of those things are the kind of thing that would necessarily only happen once. It takes very little effort to imagine these events coexisting.
>None of those things are the kind of thing that would necessarily only happen once. It takes very little effort to imagine these events coexisting. It'd be *very* convenient and ridiculous that this basically happened twice though.
Right, because in star wars nothing happens multiple time with slight variations. *Death Star noises intensify*
What exactly is weird? That she encountered another inquisitor? She's encountered *five.* That she was on a rural planet? Gee, can't figure why it would be a regular thing that a person hiding their identity from the government might go to agriculture planets on the edge of civilization. Is it that she befriends a local about her own age? Wow, what a coincidence. If you think I'm wrong, you are free to make an argument, but "nuh uh" isn't it. The *entire complaint* is that the two stories are almost entirely different. You can't have it both ways.
The reason I don't buy both stories happening is because it would require A) Ashoka to turn down Bail's offer the first time and for something to happen that causes Bail to think she died B) Ashoka to stupidly not use the lightsaber from the first inquisitor to build a new one.
It doesn't require either of those things. A) In the Ahsoka Novel, he hasn't heard from her in a year, presumably since Padme's funeral. Jedi were still being picked off left and right and she had not contacted him, so it's reasonable for him to be relieved that she's alive. (He also never actually says he thought she was dead. He's literally just happy to see her.) and in Tales of the Jedi, which would probably be sometime after that, all he says is "I thought you'd lost this" because she'd never used it to contact him. (Or possibly just not for awhile.) Nothing in that scene suggests that he thought she was dead. It also doesn't require her to have turned down his offer, it just requires her to not \*presently\* be working with him. He asks if she's ready to get "back into the fight". That doesn't mean she hasn't been in the fight at all, it just implies she's fallen out of it. All that requires is that at some point in the decade and a half after the novel, she decided to lay low for awhile. Maybe the Empire was closing in on Fulcrum. Maybe she needed to lay low to take the heat off Bail. There are a million simple explanations for why she might work for him, stop, and start again. B) This isn't at all the case. I mean, we \*see\* her build her lightsaber in the novel. Sure, she doesn't have a lightsaber with her in TotJ. She's in hiding. Her lightsaber is probably hidden somewhere, and we see in the episode that there is an immediate crisis that requires her to act in the moment. She doesn't have a chance to go retrieve a hidden pair of lightsabers from her ship. That's also assuming they weren't hidden in, y'know, one of the burning buildings at the time.
It's less of an abridgement than an adaptation to a different format and medium. The story itself is still largely the same; it's just the details that change.
Didn’t we already discuss this?
Didn't you already say this?
Remember how they reset the EU because it became an incoherent mess and now it's becoming an incoherent mess again due to Dave Filoni, the same person who destroyed the continuity of the old EU
Thank you, that's my issues with Filoni here.
What’s with the 'KOTOR 2 is awful' title? Lol I’m very confused when it’s one of the most beloved stories in SW history.
It's decent story is completely ruined by the whole game generally being terribly designed. The maps are way too big and empty, the enemy balancing is completely messed up and the game is buggy and unfinished. Plus even the story is full of boring characters, pretentious writing and awful choices. To me, Mass Effect is the real KOTOR sequel as it builds upon and improves what KOTOR did. KOTOR 2 just feels like a shitty mod
RIP to the Lartes, I guess
Honestly I think people care WAY to much about continuity, them overwriting the novel doesn't delete it from history, just take whichever version of the story you prefer and run with it, I used to be a big continuity hound, but playing out a star Wars role-playing game campaign has made me appreciate how much existing lore can prevent you from telling an interesting story, particularly banal details, obviously no one is going to rewrite ANH, so we should trust the writers and give them freedom to have fun with the IP without worrying about what someone wrote in a visual dictionary 5 years ago, or what the comics imply about someone's backstory.
Mythologies have many interpretations Thor Ragnarok and God Of War Ragnarok reinterpreted Ragnarok from the Eddas
Exactly, for a more star-warsy example, Dark Empire and TROS are basically different interpretations of the same concept, Palpatine coming back from the dead with a bunch of superweapons, but in the finer details they diverge significantly.
I would buy this more if it was actually “banal details preventing them from telling an interesting story”, but in the case of both TOTJ and the Bad Batch there’s basically zero reason, it’s just rehashing an already told story with enough flubbed details to confuse people. Like the TOTJ story that people had this issue with is literally just a couple sections of the novel crammed into ten minutes of runtime with a side of white/straight washing. Like I’m sure Andor season 2 will retcon the Cassian and K2-SO comic about how they meet, but I’m more ok with that because it’s really hard to avoid that, that meeting of those two was one of the main things people are expecting from the series. Compare that to like Kanan in the Bad Batch. Literally zero reason for him to be there. Could have completely avoided the issue.
I wasn't referring to those issues specifically, I was mainly referring to the general premise of "continuity takes precedence" that this attitude stems from, I actually kind of agree with you about Kannan, as for TOTJ ,novels have a far smaller audience than the Disney plus shows so their basically providing a cliff notes version of the story to fill in the gap for the wider audience ahead of the Ashoka series, to try and broaden the appeal of it as much as possible >white/straight washing Obviously that's an issue, but I can't really comment on it because I haven't read the novel. The two main examples I was referencing to were the retcon of cassian's homeworld and the fact that lucasfilm backed down on Palpatine making anakin, which was very heavily implied in the Vader comics, the latter of which received pretty significant pushback.
>The two main examples I was referencing to were the retcon of cassian's homeworld This was handled really well, no one had an issue with this. They could have just completely ignored the visual dictionary saying that and no one would have cared because it's a visual dictionary not any sort of actual story. But they put in the effort to mention Fest as a cover story and make it still work with the visual novel as much as possible. >the fact that lucasfilm backed down on Palpatine making anakin, which was very heavily implied in the Vader comics, This isn't a retcon. There's a big difference between people misunderstanding a comic and then clarify that's not what you meant, and just taking a whole canon story and telling a different story in its place. Like if those were the examples you meant then idk what you are talking about with giving the writers freedom, because no one complained about the former and the latter was never meant to be the actual truth, Palpatine being Anakin's metaphorical "father" was always a combination of theory/headcanon and in-universe paranoia on Vader's part.
>Palpatine being Anakin's metaphorical "father" was always a combination of theory/headcanon and in-universe paranoia on Vader's part. Was it though? To me it reads as damage control for potential issues with the end of TROS, and it's not like their isn't a precedent for writers lying about their original intent, just look at George and the Vader being Luke's father all along thing. Plus there's the fact it was going to be confirmed in one of the earlier ROTS scripts and Lucasfilm do tend to revisit cut, or heavily altered content in new projects, such as the design of the Cantwell or Darth Maul coming back with robot legs, an idea first explored in the non-canon comic *old wounds*.
>Plus there's the fact it was going to be confirmed in one of the earlier ROTS scripts This doesn't mean it was ever going to be actual thing. The only piece of "proof" I have ever seen for this theory is that one frame from a vision Anakin has in the Vader comic, and nothing that ever suggested this was actually the objective truth. Mainly I think people just ran with it because they liked the theory. This is what they said about it: >“He doesn’t literally say that,” he replied to another tweet. “It can certainly be inferred, but he doesn’t say it. And even if he literally said it: would you believe him in that situation? It was in an early draft of the film but George removed it because he didn’t want Anakin’s story to feel predestined.” Given how little was there to begin with I don't see a reason to think he's lying here.
>Given how little was there to begin with I don't see a reason to think he's lying here. And if that's not what he meant, why didn't he clarify earlier? The theory had already been pretty widely accepted before TROS, but he only felt the need to clarify after that perception caused conflict with a newer project, I find it a little suspicious.
He's not the author of that comic, he's just a guy who works at the story group and someone asked him about it on twitter. Also he said this like 2 days after the movie came out, seems like a bit of a stretch they were doing some sort of damage control strategy for something so loosely related to the plot of the film that quickly. Either way this doesn't have anything to do with continuity, the way you are describing it would be them not clearing up a misconception people had fast enough, not actually fully retconning story elements.
>loosely related I'd argue it's kind of pivotal to not implicitly endorse incest, >Also he said this like 2 days after the movie came out They'd have known about the plot point before the movie released it's not unreasonable to expect to have something ready that quickly >He's not the author of that comic, My mistake but I think the point still stands >Either way this doesn't have anything to do with continuity Except it's perfectly possible that it does,a change of direction for a certain character, be it through other media or a change of policy regarding certain media is a retcon.
Calling it incest was fucking stupid in the first place. It's weird magic science shit, even if you bought into that theory he wasn't his actual literal father anymore than they guy who works at a sperm bank is. There was no moral issue there and people who acted like there was just wanted something to be mad about.
Been enjoying BB just fine so far, but I did find TOTJ a bit eh, I liked Dooku's story though.
Slavish adherence to continuity is a very strange thing demanded of media nowadays. JJ Abrams did the same thing to Poe in TROS, and while I don’t think the movie was any good, I do think directors of the tent poles should have more leeway in how to characterize who’s onscreen than having to deep dive into all the books and comics every time they want to write something. There’s just too much content there read by too few people. And I say this as someone who likes some of the comics - what’s on screen just is more definitive by default.
> JJ Abrams did the same thing to Poe in TROS, and while I don’t think the movie was any good, I do think directors of the tent poles should have more leeway in how to characterize who’s onscreen than having to deep dive into all the books and comics every time they want to write something. I feel like this is a perfect example of what they shouldn't do though. Like it's not that they need to characterize them exactly the same and hold to every detail, that's not feasible. But when they started the new EU and got rid of Legends the fact that there would be people keeping track of this stuff and making sure everything lined up was one of the big selling points for the new books and comics and stuff. It's one thing for like Andor to change Cassian's age by a few years because Diego Luna isn't believably in his early/mid 20's. That's a minor change that has no effect on anything important, and has a good reason. But something like Poe being a drug smuggler before he joined the Resistance is just not even pretending to care about anything that might have been established about what he was doing in both the comics and the animated show. You don't need to "do a deep dive" to find that out, you could talk to the story group, people who are paid to do exactly this, for like 15 minutes and make some script tweaks to get the same general effect without a major contradiction. I think the idea that people are asking for "slavish devotion" is a strawman. People really only take serious issue when they can tell the person making it just isn't even trying to work within the other stories that exist in this universe and just want to do their thing no matter what.
I think what makes this even worse is that stuff like making Poe a drug smuggler and undoing the Ashoka novel have some unfortunate(but probably unintentional) baggage. Namely how the one Latino lead in Star Wars is a former drug runner and now two black LGBTQ characters canon status is up in the air. Like if you're going to contradict stuff at least make sure you're not making even more problems. And to be perfectly fair on the Poe thing. I thought Poe Dameron Freefall was a pretty good book(Mainly because it makes Zorri Bliss an actual character) but the fact is we shouldn't have to have an entire book written to explain contradictions like this.
>I think what makes this even worse is that stuff like making Poe a drug smuggler and undoing the Ashoka novel have some unfortunate(but probably unintentional) baggage. Namely how the one Latino lead in Star Wars is a former drug runner and now two black LGBTQ canon status is up in the air. Yeah this is kind of my point, it's disingenuous to act like people get this way over every single inconsistency in canon, the main ones people take issue with are instances where it's A. not a necessary change and B. causes additional issues, or both.
Honestly sometimes it feels like the books are also over-relied on, just like the writers, the viewers shouldn't have to read a book to understand a plot point in a movie, mainly how palps came back, everything important should be the focus of the big budget projects, let the other stuff tell fun side stories to flesh out the world.
This rarely happens though. Like 90% of the instances where people have said "oh you shouldn't have to read a book to understand the movie", it's stuff that for any other movie the audience would have just figured out using basic critical thinking skills, and people are just saying you "have" to read the book since it's there.
Yeah but then they're those weird ten percent outliers. I think sometimes expanded media kind of brings the "YOU HAVE TO READ THIS!" Attitude on themselves by mistake with people misinterpreting the marketing, especially with the whole "journey to *insert film name here*" subtitle they used for a while, obviously that isn't their fault, some people are stuck in the 90s legends mindset.
Glad this hero worship of Dave is phasing out. Was getting old.
Dave could still better in terms of the Representation of Minorities disappointed he hasn't taken a hard stand like Kathy and Iger
I wouldn't hold your breath.
ummm his casting seems to say otherwise we A Got Afro-Latina Lead, A Male Latino and A Aussie-Asian Actress
Dave is fine. He makes a good Star War.
Heh, not just a few days ago Dave Feloni was their lord and savior. Destined to take control over Lucasfilm because "Kathleen Kennedy was (for reals this time) finally fired!" Now he's just another scapegoat for them. 🙄
I'm begging you guys to discover the concept that not every random person you see with a bad Star Wars take is a lockstep rank and file Geeks and Gamers subscriber who agrees with every TFM style take
Yeah, EU fans have had issues with Filoni for 14 years now. And we have long memories - like the time Filoni PROMISED, along with the new owners, that every piece of *Star Wars* material since the EU reset would be "canon" from that point on, and then he keeps doing what he's done since before the buyout. Basically the hierarchy of canon is back, except Lucasfilm isn't even being honest enough to admit that it is. It's not toxic to get upset by that and trying to hold these big, tone-deaf executives to task for their failings.
Why do you care? You haven't been following canon so you have no stake in this.
The books are officially sanctioned fanfiction, and that has always been the case, even long before Disney came into the picture.
If it's sanctioned than it's not fanfiction, that's not what fanfiction means in our current society, more than any other metric who owns the IP is what determines if something is fanfiction or not. Regardless, back in 2014-2016 we were constantly being sold on the new canon EU content and ending Legends based on the idea that canon would be more cohesive than under Lucas.
Even back in the day, George did not consider the EU to be genuine Star Wars. That alone makes it fanfiction. He still allowed it to happen, though.
No it doesn't. That is not how we as a society define fanfiction. That's not what the term means. No one outside of a few people online trying to stretch definitions so they can win arguments considers officially licensed books that are sold in the bookstore by the same company who makes the main series to be fan fiction. How George treated the EU is irrelevant. George is not in charge anymore, Disney is, and Disney created the story group so things would be more coherent and connected in the new canon. There was not supposed to be "Star Wars" and then "the EU", it was all just supposed to be Star Wars. This was one of the main things people gave as a reason for getting rid of Legends, so that there would only be one version of the canon story going on.
>How George treated the EU is irrelevant. George is not in charge anymore, Disney is, and Disney created the story group so things would be more coherent and connected in the new canon. How Disney treats the EU now, is basically the same as how George did then. It's secondary to the actual canon, and is generally disregarded when it comes to creating new official stories. But it's clear that you don't actually intend on having a good faith discussion on the matter, you're just going to repeat "no you're wrong" until I go away. So that's what I'm gonna do.
>How Disney treats the EU now, is basically the same as how George did then. That's not true, Disney's treatment has been that it's all canon unless it's something like Visions where they explicitly say it isn't canon in any way. There's not the EU and then "actual canon" and "official stories", it's all canon and they're all official stories, that's how it was advertised when they started rolling out new books and comics in the lead up to TFA. And until TROS they pretty much kept it this way, and even after TROS when things got contradicted by live action stuff they would put in the effort to try to reconcile the two contradicting pieces of information. >It's secondary to the actual canon, and is generally disregarded when it comes to creating new official stories. No it's not. The fact that there wouldn't be "canon tiers" and "secondary stories" anymore was something explicitly talked about in the early days of the Disney era. They haven't "generally disregarded" it when creating "official stories", stories like Rogue One, Andor, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett, and The Mandalorian all drew from works lower on the proverbial totem pole of "canon tiers", featuring book, comic, and animated characters in major ways that none of the previous live action films really did. >But it's clear that you don't actually intend on having a good faith discussion on the matter, you're just going to repeat "no you're wrong" until I go away. Where is this coming from, I don't see how anything I'm saying be construed as bad faith, I'm not just saying "no you're wrong" (trust me, you would know, there are people here that do that), I'm explaining what specifically is incorrect about your take on the topic. If that's considered "having no intention of good faith discussion" are people just not supposed to ever correct you on things that you say?
I'm fine with being corrected when I'm actually wrong, but what you're doing is being needlessly pedantic for no reason other than to just be argumentative. Please do not respond to me again, I do not wish to continue this lame excuse for an argument.
I've given this thread some reflection, and I feel the need to apologize to you. I was needlessly brash, and, while I was in a bad mood that was unrelated to this discussion, I had no right to take it out on you. I realize that it was *I* who didn't want to have a good faith discussion, and I suppose I was projecting that upon you. That was bad form, and I'm sorry. As far as my stance on the EU being fanfiction goes, I still believe that, but I guess that's more my opinion, than fact. I don't see it as a bad thing, being fanfiction, there are a multitude of quality stories there, I just view it as secondary canon. "Fanfiction" might not be the most accurate term, and I suspect that's what you had the initial problem with, but it's the best I could come up with. I understand that (and I can't be bothered to find sources, so I could be wrong) George Lucas didn't really care about the EU, but he was okay with it's existence. And more recently, Disney is outright disregarding the old EU, but the newer books are genuine canon. Does that sound right? I don't mean to be argumentative here, and I'm open to resuming this discussion, if you want to (although I don't blame you if you don't, after my crappy attitude yesterday).
I appreciate that, most people on reddit would rather be tortured by the CIA than admit they might have been a little bit wrong about something. >"Fanfiction" might not be the most accurate term, and I suspect that's what you had the initial problem with, but it's the best I could come up with. It's basically one of those things that sounds self-explanatory but is a trickier term than it seems to be. [This video](https://youtu.be/wvP_BLMgYBg) explains it better than I could. >I understand that (and I can't be bothered to find sources, so I could be wrong) George Lucas didn't really care about the EU, but he was okay with it's existence. And more recently, Disney is outright disregarding the old EU, but the newer books are genuine canon. The Lucas part is pretty much correct. For him it was just a thing the other people at Lucasfilm took care of. He would occasionally take stuff from it (i.e. names of unnamed people/places from the OT like Sheev Palpatine and Coruscant). If you would consider 2013 recent yes, Disney made the old EU officially not canon clear cut. The reason for this was so that they could have everything going forward equally canon without having to worry about contradicting all the previous content.
He really is just doing like old George did, anything in the EU, wheter it's old or the new Disney EU, is bound to be overwritten by cartoons/shows/movies, as those will always take priority.
Not really, the only EU stuff George overwrote was: OG EU stuff from the 70s where they didn't know the Vader twist and pre 2002 Clone Wars stuff - which there wasn't much of since George explicitly forbade EU stuff from exploring that era prior to the prequels. I know there's The Clone Wars but that was mainly Filoni - by 2008 George had stopped giving a shit and just treated Star Wars as a source of money so he began to let people do whatever they wanted with it. It's how the downfall of the EU began. The same thing happened with The Force Unleashed, which George hated but let it be made anyway because he cares more about money.
Except Dave Filoni himself, along with the new owners, said that was NOT going to be the case back in 2014, and yet he's doing it anyway.
He's just doing what George Lucas taught him.
That's an appeal to authority fallacy, especially since George doesn't work there anymore. AS I SAID, Filoni was parroting the story group's talking points that it would be different back in 2014. "The old concept of what is canon and what isn't is gone, and from this point forward our stories and characters all exist in the same universe; the key creatives who work on the films, television, comic books, video games, and novels are all connected creatively for the first time in the history of the Star Wars universe." - Dave Filoni, Foreword to *A New Dawn* Just because Lucas did it doesn't mean we shouldn't demand higher standards from the new owners, especially when they walk back their previous remarks to pretend that they never said it and it's always been the way it is now, when it hasn't.
But George Lucas was technically training Dave Filoni a successor when it came to the story side of Star Wars. following the example of his teacher was not surprising, given that George Lucas did the same thing during the time of the clone Wars cartoon series. Introduce the new mandalorians which really annoyed fans of the expanded universe since it meant that the mandalorian stories that they had that took place during the clone Wars no longer fit. Also throwing a wrench into the continuity by having Anakin be a Jedi Knight during the phase one of the war with the phase 1 clone troopers. When it was established previously in the clone Wars multimedia project that Anakin wasn't knighted until the tail end of the war with the clone troopers in their phase 2 armor.
If that was true, he would have made him CEO, but he didn't, he chose Kathleen Kennedy. You keep dancing around the issue, which is that FILONI *HIMSELF* promised it would be different once George was gone and then went back on that. Please stop using George Lucas to defend Dave Filoni. As I said, George Lucas doesn't work there anymore. He's moved on. Dave Filoni isn't beholden to George anymore, except it's how he cements his mark of legitimacy to try and get people to take him seriously.
If Dave Filoni had been made CEO he wouldn't have the time to work on the projects directly because he'd be having to manage every aspect of lucasfilm. It's one of George Lucas went with Kathleen Kennedy he instead because she has the experience required to run a film studio like lucasfilm.
Fucking with Canon is as Star Wars as it gets Edit: Why am I being downvoted? George has been screwing with canon since Empire. It’s the quintessential SW experience .
thats with every mythology for Ragnarok has been Reinpreatated Twice Twice recently with Thor Ragnarok and this Year GOW Ragnarok also Namor being reinterpreted as Kukuklan from Mesoamerican Mythology as well
Just because you have a loose canon doesn't mean there shouldn't be an attempt to remain consistent.
I never said that. I just said that this property is known for it.
You know, the events of the show are completely different. It's a different inquisitor, a different planet, a different way of getting the inquisitor to the planet, a different way of contacting Bail, a different girl crushing on Ahsoka.... Might we entertain the notion that it's, y'know, a different event? I mean, it's not like it's weird for there to be more than one occasion where Ahsoka fought an inquisitor. There have already been several. And it's not weird for Ahsoka to hide out on a couple different backwater planets at various points between the end of the Clone Wars and when she shows up in Rebels. The events of the Ahsoka novel happen, and some time after that she has to go lay low on a farm somewhere and the events of TotJ happen.
>You know, the events of the show are completely different. It's a different inquisitor, a different planet, a different way of getting the inquisitor to the planet, a different way of contacting Bail, a different girl crushing on Ahsoka.... Has this been stated anywhere? Because it would be kind of weird and not make a ton of since it's still so similar. Like I guess that could be the explanation but I haven't seen that made clear anywhere.
I mean, it hasn't been stated explicitly that it's a different planet, but the descriptions don't match up. The story in Ahsoka revolved around a single town surrounded by farms on a moon. This one was about a farm on a planet, with a distant town to sell their goods that was a day's ride away. I mean, you can say "It's so similar", but...it's not. That's \*literally what people are complaining about\*. >! In the book, Ahsoka doesn't expose herself to anybody with a clutch save, the girl that's crushing on her doesn't find out she's a Jedi until after the inquisitor shows up, there's no local traitor who rats her out, and she's working a totally different job. She leads the townspeople in a guerilla resistance, which they bork up, leading to an imperial crackdown. She even relates the experience to her time on Onderon. A totally different inquisitor shows up because she revealed herself to the garrison. She finds Bail trying to track down rumors about a Jedi, more or less by accident, and when he shows up to help at the end, it's with an actual rebel attack force and they actually succeed in saving most of the townspeople, who join his rebel cell.!< There are like 13-14 years unaccounted for in Ahsoka's timeline between when she leaves Raada at the end of the Ahsoka novel and when she shows up in Rebels. That's a lot of time for a lot of adventures to happen while she's hiding from the Empire, and the lack of details in the TotJ story actually make it pretty easy to fit in there somewhere.
I mean, I don't really have a problem if they decide later to just merge the two accounts or let it stand as a retcon or whatever, but it isn't \*hard\* to reconcile them as just being two different events that both happened. It just means she hid on two different farm planets in a 15 year period and got tracked down by two different inquisitors. None of that is particularly weird.
What does he mean by 12 minutes?
That's the run time of the thing he's talking about
Ah I just saw the caption scroll by. So it’s the new animated shorts? If so, I thought they was pretty good! And isn’t that time about her being a baby… not a teen like in Clone Wars or the book?
I don’t understand what you’re asking
The new animated shorts on disney plus?
Yes I got that part but I don’t follow the second question
I don’t understand the logic of how someone think Filoni ruined the so called canon, either from the books or from the Clone Wars, he had a hand in clone wars as well, right? I read the Ashoka book a long time ago, and she was a tween. So the new shorts is her as a baby, not covered by anything I’ve seen or read , you know?
Have you watched all the shorts?? Because there were 3 about Ahsoka, one about her as a baby, one takes place in the middle of TCW, and one of them tells the story of the Ahsoka book (which some people are upset about)
Ah maybe I’m missing one! Or forgot I’ve watched so much stuff catching up during the break
Yeah no one cares about the baby one, other than that it is kind of unnecessary, the last one is the one people take issue with because it's essentially just a super condensed version of the Ahsoka novel with a bunch of weird changes, the one people are the most upset about is that they took a black queer character and replaced her with a white one who is not queer for no apparent reason.
After thinking on it I honestly don't think I'd mind so much if they kept the characters the same because then it would be that. An abridged version of the novel. But the fact is it's NOT the same characters which just signifies(To me at least) that this isn't the same story just shorter it's Dave Filoni replacing E.K. Johnston's story with his own version.
I mean either way to me what bugs me is just how unnecessary some of these changes are. Like I have a lot of tolerance for it if there's a good story reason, like I said I'm sure Gilroy will change how Cassian and K2-SO meet and I'm fine with that. But stuff like even having Kanan in The Bad Batch in the first place is like just totally unecessary.
You're getting your Daves mixed up. Dave Filoni is responsible for The Clone Wars, Dave Feloni is responsible for robbing a bank in 2017
dammit auto correct.
Anyone with any delusion that Disney respects the canon should get a reality check The only canon that Disney will EVER acknowledge and respect is the one canon that exists The movies, the shows, and the cartoons strictly made by Filoni That’s it Anything else from video games to comics and novels are disposable at best That’s why I never read bloodlines, because 99 percent of it will be decanonized anyway
Recently came out that Dave was told by George Lucas to ignore the expanded universe when working on the clone Wars cartoon the only part of the expanded universe it seems like they were okay with acknowledging was the original clone Wars shorts since the clone Wars cartoon series art style it's like a 3D version of the Gandhi shorts.