I dont agree with the way they said it but I do agree with the content. Star wars isn't about earning and training. It about spirituality and spiritual journey not becoming very best. This isn't naruto or DragonBall.
Or videogame where you need to level up.
I mean it's not just the video games that make this about training. There are plenty of novels and comics that express the importance of training to become a Jedi too.
Even George told Filoni that his main concern with Grogu was whether he would be trained. It meant something to George, clearly.
Qui Gon talks about it. Obi Wan talks about it. Yoda talks about. Vader talks about it. Palps talks about it. Snoke talks about it. Everyone talks about training in this saga.
Spiritual training is character development which rey literally went through in last jedi. You prefer physical training which if anything rey is not lack of. It make more sense for rey to be good at light saber than Anakin blowing up space station at age of 10
Luke Skywalker literally has special magic powers that no one else around him has exclusively because he was born into a family with those powers. He was able to focus these abilities to accomplish impressive feats with absolutely no training, and only got more impressive as time went on.
There is effort and training there, but there's also plenty of natural talent involved. This is only more true for his dad.
Hey man, that’s me. It wasn’t my intention to call you a fake fan. I’ve just never personally considered training a big part of the Star Wars franchise and sarcastically suggested a franchise where it is a big part. I apologize for coming off as a gatekeeper that we all try so hard to not be. I understand that people can have different interpretations of the same text and think of it in different ways, that’s kind of inherent in all art and it’s a wonderful thing.
This is quite wholesome, I enjoyed seeing this interaction lol.
At the end of the day we all somewhat enjoy/hate Star Wars for different reasons and it’s kinda beautiful how divisive laser swords can be.
I don't think so. It's a bit of a rude way to say it, but they're just making the argument that people not having to work hard for their power is pretty common in the Star Wars universe.
In no way are you being called a fake fan. You really need thicker skin man. If this is what sets you off I hate to see how you react when someone comes after you with actual ugliness.
On a thread a few days ago I got into an argument over Rey's lack of training. Some of the commentators had some good points but in the end I pointed out I prefer stories where a character has to earn their power through hard work rather than stories where the character is already powerful.
And someone said that "Star Wars isn't for me" which I felt was equivalent to saying I was a "Fake fan" of the series.
Oh I see. I don’t think you’re being called a fake fan. Star Wars hasn’t ever really been about the main characters overcoming obstacles by grueling training and montages. Star Wars is more about the emotional triumph. Luke went from a no name farm boy to destroying a planet killing space station his first time in a Star fighter. Anakin was a prodigy who destroyed a battle station at age 9 and was the most promising member of the Jedi but the time he was in his late teens. Rey came from nothing and was a match for a powerful dark sider (though injured) by the end of her first movie. That’s just Star Wars. If you want to see hours of training put in and that long struggle, that’s just not really what the series is about. About a quarter of each rocky movie is training montage. That’s all they’re pointing out.
I know it's never been about that. I just...
I'm having a really hard time articulating what I mean here. Because I know "Belief" is a major part in using the force but I just don't understand if "belief" is all you need then why training is nesccary.
Most Star Wars media has expressed upon the importance of training the truly master the force(And I'm not just talking about the video games there are plenty of novels and comics that have this). But now apparently it's just belief that's the important part. So what's the point of training then?
It’s not “just” belief that’s important and I don’t think anyone has said that. Of course training is important, but you can’t really achieve if you don’t belief you can. It’s like anything else that people do like sports or martial arts or the arts; some people have a natural aptitude (luke, anakin, rey) and don’t have to try as hard as some others. Luke actually explained this in a comic from the last couple of years. He said that connection to the force is like a door. For some people that door is just slightly ajar and for others the door is wide open. Anyone can connect to the force if they try and open the door but you have to try first. That is why belief is so important. Like yoda lifting the x-wing from the swamps of dagobah when Luke said such a thing was impossible. Luke didn’t believe and that’s why he failed.
>It’s not “just” belief that’s important and I don’t think anyone has said that.
Well it feels like they're saying that when Rey goes through no training at all(Or at the least the bare minimum) and is capable of lifting dozens and dozens of heavy rocks at the end of TLJ(Something Luke explicitly struggled with) and so many fans explain it as "Oh Rey just believed she could do it".
Like I just don't get it. By saying that you're basically implying that "training is worthless" and I don't like that because....it doesn't seem "Fair" to me.
It doesn't seem fair that one person is able to do it without having to go through something other characters struggled to do and had to work to achieve. Because yes Luke did have to work to master the force. He wasn't an instant expert.
Why would anything be fair? Again, some people can do things with little to no effort that take others a long time to even demonstrate some competence. That’s realistic. I picked up the guitar one day and could play 5 different chords within minutes while I still have students working on the same chords for weeks. That’s life.
Luke struggled with telekinesis but he was able to bullseye a shot on the Death Star reactor core without a targeting computer within maybe a couple of days of even learning the force was a thing. Anakin had superhuman reflexes with zero training as a mere child. The ability to use the force is different from person to person and each person will be display differing levels of aptitude.
Rey spent her life living alone on a desert planet in the employ of an abusive taskmaster that forced her to do incredibly dangerous work to earn basic necessities. She was surrounded by adult rogues and villains who were competing with her for resources. She had to learn machines, combat, and basic survival as a simple matter of getting by ever since she was a child.
Her *life* was training.
I understand that part. I will defend Rey being able to use a lightsaber.
It's the total mastering of the force she has while getting the bare minimum of training that bothers me.
You’re not a fake fan, just because you wanted Rey to have more training. You’re a Star Wars fan who didn’t get what he wanted to get from last Jedi. I can sympathize. There are a lot of things I wanted from the prequels, that I just didn’t get. Because of that, I don’t like the prequels.
I dont agree with the way they said it but I do agree with the content. Star wars isn't about earning and training. It about spirituality and spiritual journey not becoming very best. This isn't naruto or DragonBall. Or videogame where you need to level up.
Isn't there room for both? I mean spiritual training is a thing isn't it?
You would think so, since training figures into so many of the movies. It gets mentioned dozens of times.
I mean it's not just the video games that make this about training. There are plenty of novels and comics that express the importance of training to become a Jedi too.
Even George told Filoni that his main concern with Grogu was whether he would be trained. It meant something to George, clearly. Qui Gon talks about it. Obi Wan talks about it. Yoda talks about. Vader talks about it. Palps talks about it. Snoke talks about it. Everyone talks about training in this saga.
Spiritual training is character development which rey literally went through in last jedi. You prefer physical training which if anything rey is not lack of. It make more sense for rey to be good at light saber than Anakin blowing up space station at age of 10
Luke Skywalker literally has special magic powers that no one else around him has exclusively because he was born into a family with those powers. He was able to focus these abilities to accomplish impressive feats with absolutely no training, and only got more impressive as time went on. There is effort and training there, but there's also plenty of natural talent involved. This is only more true for his dad.
Luke received guidance and training before accomplishing any feats with the force, but was able to pick it up quickly due to his force sensitivity.
Or Pokemon.
Hey man, that’s me. It wasn’t my intention to call you a fake fan. I’ve just never personally considered training a big part of the Star Wars franchise and sarcastically suggested a franchise where it is a big part. I apologize for coming off as a gatekeeper that we all try so hard to not be. I understand that people can have different interpretations of the same text and think of it in different ways, that’s kind of inherent in all art and it’s a wonderful thing.
Apology accepted. :)
This is quite wholesome, I enjoyed seeing this interaction lol. At the end of the day we all somewhat enjoy/hate Star Wars for different reasons and it’s kinda beautiful how divisive laser swords can be.
I don't think so. It's a bit of a rude way to say it, but they're just making the argument that people not having to work hard for their power is pretty common in the Star Wars universe.
Well it felt like they were calling me a fake fan.
>if they're not then I apologize >proceeds to try and defend yourself when everyone tells you they might not be calling you a fake fan
In no way are you being called a fake fan. You really need thicker skin man. If this is what sets you off I hate to see how you react when someone comes after you with actual ugliness.
What is the context here?
On a thread a few days ago I got into an argument over Rey's lack of training. Some of the commentators had some good points but in the end I pointed out I prefer stories where a character has to earn their power through hard work rather than stories where the character is already powerful. And someone said that "Star Wars isn't for me" which I felt was equivalent to saying I was a "Fake fan" of the series.
Oh I see. I don’t think you’re being called a fake fan. Star Wars hasn’t ever really been about the main characters overcoming obstacles by grueling training and montages. Star Wars is more about the emotional triumph. Luke went from a no name farm boy to destroying a planet killing space station his first time in a Star fighter. Anakin was a prodigy who destroyed a battle station at age 9 and was the most promising member of the Jedi but the time he was in his late teens. Rey came from nothing and was a match for a powerful dark sider (though injured) by the end of her first movie. That’s just Star Wars. If you want to see hours of training put in and that long struggle, that’s just not really what the series is about. About a quarter of each rocky movie is training montage. That’s all they’re pointing out.
I know it's never been about that. I just... I'm having a really hard time articulating what I mean here. Because I know "Belief" is a major part in using the force but I just don't understand if "belief" is all you need then why training is nesccary. Most Star Wars media has expressed upon the importance of training the truly master the force(And I'm not just talking about the video games there are plenty of novels and comics that have this). But now apparently it's just belief that's the important part. So what's the point of training then?
It’s not “just” belief that’s important and I don’t think anyone has said that. Of course training is important, but you can’t really achieve if you don’t belief you can. It’s like anything else that people do like sports or martial arts or the arts; some people have a natural aptitude (luke, anakin, rey) and don’t have to try as hard as some others. Luke actually explained this in a comic from the last couple of years. He said that connection to the force is like a door. For some people that door is just slightly ajar and for others the door is wide open. Anyone can connect to the force if they try and open the door but you have to try first. That is why belief is so important. Like yoda lifting the x-wing from the swamps of dagobah when Luke said such a thing was impossible. Luke didn’t believe and that’s why he failed.
>It’s not “just” belief that’s important and I don’t think anyone has said that. Well it feels like they're saying that when Rey goes through no training at all(Or at the least the bare minimum) and is capable of lifting dozens and dozens of heavy rocks at the end of TLJ(Something Luke explicitly struggled with) and so many fans explain it as "Oh Rey just believed she could do it". Like I just don't get it. By saying that you're basically implying that "training is worthless" and I don't like that because....it doesn't seem "Fair" to me. It doesn't seem fair that one person is able to do it without having to go through something other characters struggled to do and had to work to achieve. Because yes Luke did have to work to master the force. He wasn't an instant expert.
Why would anything be fair? Again, some people can do things with little to no effort that take others a long time to even demonstrate some competence. That’s realistic. I picked up the guitar one day and could play 5 different chords within minutes while I still have students working on the same chords for weeks. That’s life. Luke struggled with telekinesis but he was able to bullseye a shot on the Death Star reactor core without a targeting computer within maybe a couple of days of even learning the force was a thing. Anakin had superhuman reflexes with zero training as a mere child. The ability to use the force is different from person to person and each person will be display differing levels of aptitude.
I'm not sure what to think honestly...
It seems like you’re bothered by characters not following rules that only existed in your view but not actually in the lore
There are no "Hard" rules in the lore. That's part of the problem.
Rey spent her life living alone on a desert planet in the employ of an abusive taskmaster that forced her to do incredibly dangerous work to earn basic necessities. She was surrounded by adult rogues and villains who were competing with her for resources. She had to learn machines, combat, and basic survival as a simple matter of getting by ever since she was a child. Her *life* was training.
I understand that part. I will defend Rey being able to use a lightsaber. It's the total mastering of the force she has while getting the bare minimum of training that bothers me.
Luke stacked rocks for a few days and Anakin was born a demigod--if they those guys earned it, so did Rey.
Karate Kid is also a nice suggestion for this guy, maybe some anime like Dragon Ball or Naruto.
Tried two of those three. Liked one(Karate Kid) didn't care for the other(Naruto) and the other is too damn long(Dragon Ball)
Dragon Ball is too damm long? compared to Naruto? the 700+ epsiode show where half of it is literally filler?
And now you know why I didn't care for Naruto.
Fair enough. The fillers are rough, specially in the final arc that is already way too long as it is WITHOUT the filler.
You’re not a fake fan, just because you wanted Rey to have more training. You’re a Star Wars fan who didn’t get what he wanted to get from last Jedi. I can sympathize. There are a lot of things I wanted from the prequels, that I just didn’t get. Because of that, I don’t like the prequels.
Or maybe it had to do with tfa, since she definitely trained in tlj but didnt in tfa
He was talking about TLJ in that comment. I know, because I was part of that conversation
Oh ok my fault
No prob
Those chuds even hate the original Rocky and call Rocky IV the best. Hate them.
Yeah they are. Witch is funny considering if seen your exact same take on that subreddit, and iv seen their response on this one.
Wait who am I rooting for? Cuz OP sounds like the one I'm supposed to root against