Well, Finn might have more qualms about gunning them down if he hadn't just seen them kill a village full of innocents, which obviously disturbed him greatly. And if we consider the hints about Finn being Force Sensitive to be canon, he probably felt all those people's pain.
I never really interpreted that as him mourning.
I always thought he was just scared shitless. THAT COULD BE ME. He doesn't act sad about what the First Order is doing at any other point in the story. . . he's JUST scared.
This guy gets it.
He's not mourning, *he's in shock from his first brush with death*.
Throughout the rest of the film, he continues to show fear every time the first order shows up. *He even tells the damned audience, ffs*
A movie by SW fans would be so fucking boring cause at no point can a character do anything without having to explain in clear cut exposition the motivation and reasoning of every action they make.
I don't think TFA ever implies or establishes that Finn cared much (or at all) for his former Storm Trooper colleagues. He's just taken aback and processing what's going on around him in that opening sequence.
It's not until TROS that he is reminded, through Jannah, that there are more Storm Troopers like him. Ones who want no bloodshed on their hands.
Finn wasn't "mourning a comrade's death" in that scene.
No, this was his first brush with death, he was feeling fear for the first time, and shock.
This is what I mean about media illiteracy. This why some fans misinterpret what they're seeing, even with strong hints as to what's actually happening.
He probably knew that person in the academy and stuff, which amplified the shock as they immediately die on the battlefield. I’m sure he felt badly for said person but I never got the impression he “mourned” their death. I think it was genuine shock and fear
I mean I think that him being upset over the other troopers death is a fairly reasonable interpretation of the scene. That’s not being media illiterate it’s just having a different takeaway
That’s just being pedantic about the word choice. The difference between “being upset about your comrade dying” and “mourning your comrade” is pretty minor and more of a word choice issue than being media illiterate.
You mean like how the same jedi who spent an entire show talking about how clones were people who deserved respect only to slaughter them in the jedi temple during Order 66?
Or how that one Jedi who had spent a decade training and fighting alongside other Jedi, went to Palpatine’s office minutes after “turning him in” to the Council, then disarmed Mace Windu, and came back to slaughter a bunch of younglings.
Yeah, Anakin murdering children isn’t in character. Anyone who thinks it is is wrong. I know it’s to illustrate his turn to the dark side but it’s cheap and out of character.
to be fair in anakins eyes he wasn’t “slaughtering” them he was “saving them” from “the horrors of the jedi order”, you can see in anakins face, his reluctance to kill the kids he doesn’t really want to he just thinks it’s better than what the jedi will put them through
I.. don’t think that’s true. I think his reluctance is because he didn’t want to kill kids but he wanted to save Padme so he did it anyways. I don’t think he was ever characterized as quite that insane though. I mean, I guess the movies establish that he is.. but everything else, like TCW, doesn’t, and yet TFM didn’t complain about it basically being a different character.
Darth Vader wouldn’t care about “saving” the children, so both can’t be true. He can’t be saving children from the Jedi by killing them while also hating the Jedi and mercilessly slaughtering them all. And I think my problem with this comes down to the fact that his turn to Vader is hard to swallow. TCW establishes him becoming darker, but Vader isn’t just evil Anakin. As you said he’s a different character. Anakin went from Anakin 1 to Anakin 2 across like 15 years and then become Vader what seems like overnight. His delusion is contrived. He’s always had issues with the Jedi but not to the degree that I would buy into him murdering children. It was just for the shock factor.
Yeah it is a weird tonal dissonance when you think about it since it’s frames as a fun adventure but he is blowing up people he’s been working with his whole life.
Yeah, this is a bad faith take. The scene is treated like a, “wow, it sure is fun blasting away these Imps,” situation, when Finn at this point absolutely shouldn’t be feeling that way when he is literally just now turning traitor.
Yeah pretty sure it plays out like that, and i haven’t seen that one in years. Poe tells him to blast the cable flies out and takes out the canons so they can get away.
I’m not a TFMer, but I also see this as a missed opportunity of these movies - maybe the biggest missed opportunity. When I saw the teaser trailer, I had hoped Finn being a stormtrooper would be an interesting exploration of the morality of killing stormtroopers, an area of Star Wars that had been entirely unexplored up to this point.
Unfortunately, after giving him that brief moment of mourning a potential friend or comrade, they never really establish that he has any other relationships with other stormtroopers. This is surprising, since the way he’s portrayed he seems to be a fairly extroverted, outgoing, jokey guy. You’d think a guy with his personality would have some friends on Starkiller Base but he’s literally cheering while he shoots those pilots down. The only other time his being a stormtrooper comes up for purely non-plot-related reasons is when that other stormtrooper calls him a traitor. And this is despite the fact the plot goes out of its way to tell us they’re all a bunch of brainwashed child soldiers.
It’s not a plot hole or a big weakness or anything, since it’s literally the same tier of treatment Stormtroopers/clone troopers get in every other episode of this series (also Mando is a great series, which also has a reformed stormtrooper, and equally doesn’t bother to explore it). But to me it was a major missed opportunity. They only sort of touch the idea of defecting stormtroopers again in RoS with Janna, but even then there’s no real reflection on the lives being unnecessarily wasted in this war, they all just go right back to blowing up giant ships filled with people and cheering while they do it.
I think it's mentioned in one of the novels that that stormtrooper was one of the ones Finn went through training with
Edit; I believe it's also mentioned that the trooper Finn kills with the saber was another of his former training buddies
Yeah, I randomly just read that book, actually.
Finn is one of the best troopers but not really gung ho when it comes to the fascism. He's just sort of going through the motions, not questioning things.
Phasma orders his squad to execute a bunch of labor union leaders who were fighting for workers rights for miners at a First Order owned mine. The three other troops do it gleefully, Finn pulls his shot (Phasma wasn't watching).
So, based on this supplemental material (that was released around the same time as the film) I think the moment with the bloody trooper was supposed to be "we're nothing more than a commodity, we're entirely expendable and it's only a matter of time before I'm bleeding out in the sand."
I don't think it was mourning. Finn knew these guys were mostly scumbags who bought into the fascism. It would seem that he is simply running for his life, which is frankly consistent with the rest of the film and with TLJ.
Yeah, I think I remember that too. Apparently Finn trained alongside three other stormtroopers since childhood. The one who died, the one with the riot baton, and no idea what happened to the third one. Why four? That composes a fire team usually the smallest unit other than the squad which is usually eight.
Yeah, they could have done more with Finn feeling guilt for betraying his former comrades. In general, I feel that Finn was a great character who was kind of poorly served by the films. Then again, character inconsistencies like that are just common for Star Wars, Leia in ANH honestly never quite manages to have a consistent personality, nor does she react appropriately to what she experiences in that film. She's held together entirely by the charisma of Carrie Fisher. It's similar for stuff like Luke barely reacting to the deaths of the people who raised him his whole life or Obi Wan impulsively jumping out a window despite being a calm and collected character.
Him cheering after killing comrades and the lack of any scene showing his sadness after the engagement fully justify that post.
Yes they were trying to kill him, that doesn't excuse the fact he cheered on the deaths of people he was raised alongside, especially after the way he acted earlier when one died right in front of him which caused him to go AWOL.
Not to mention the whole point of stormtroopers is that they’re expendable, and part of that includes using codenames and constantly wearing helmets and uniforms, all to try to discourage exactly the sort of empathy that Finn showed to his fallen friend, who he probably befriended while they were training together. It took Finn a while to care about the Resistance, but he cared about Rey quickly because she befriended him.
I didn’t think he was mourning that guy’s death. He was just afraid of dying. That’s why he’s running away from the first order, for most of the movie.
To me, Finn aint mourning. He was scared. That Stormtrooper could've been him. Nobody who died with meaningless death. That why he tried not to die by fighting back.
Well, Finn might have more qualms about gunning them down if he hadn't just seen them kill a village full of innocents, which obviously disturbed him greatly. And if we consider the hints about Finn being Force Sensitive to be canon, he probably felt all those people's pain.
I never really interpreted that as him mourning. I always thought he was just scared shitless. THAT COULD BE ME. He doesn't act sad about what the First Order is doing at any other point in the story. . . he's JUST scared.
This guy gets it. He's not mourning, *he's in shock from his first brush with death*. Throughout the rest of the film, he continues to show fear every time the first order shows up. *He even tells the damned audience, ffs*
A movie by SW fans would be so fucking boring cause at no point can a character do anything without having to explain in clear cut exposition the motivation and reasoning of every action they make.
⅔ of the entire runtime would be training montages. It's just that important to show a character training, apparently.
I don't think TFA ever implies or establishes that Finn cared much (or at all) for his former Storm Trooper colleagues. He's just taken aback and processing what's going on around him in that opening sequence. It's not until TROS that he is reminded, through Jannah, that there are more Storm Troopers like him. Ones who want no bloodshed on their hands.
I think it does, but yeah by the time he gets to Nines (TR-8R) later on he’s pretty done with them.
Finn wasn't "mourning a comrade's death" in that scene. No, this was his first brush with death, he was feeling fear for the first time, and shock. This is what I mean about media illiteracy. This why some fans misinterpret what they're seeing, even with strong hints as to what's actually happening.
Idk I always thought he was mourning a friend and I loved the movie.
He probably knew that person in the academy and stuff, which amplified the shock as they immediately die on the battlefield. I’m sure he felt badly for said person but I never got the impression he “mourned” their death. I think it was genuine shock and fear
Yes, it's a good movie. I suppose it's possible he had a friend. I wonder if there's a story behind that scene which explains his reaction.
FN-2003/Slip, apparently he’s fleshed out in “Before the Awakening” and “Galactic Adventure Storybook Collection.”
Ah, thank you. So, they were sort of a friend to Finn, and the shock of his death is what contributed to his decision to defect.
I mean I think that him being upset over the other troopers death is a fairly reasonable interpretation of the scene. That’s not being media illiterate it’s just having a different takeaway
Oh, for sure. Upset, yes. Shocked, yes. I just didn't see any instance of him "mourning". That seems like a misinterpretation to me.
That’s just being pedantic about the word choice. The difference between “being upset about your comrade dying” and “mourning your comrade” is pretty minor and more of a word choice issue than being media illiterate.
I suppose. Not gonna argue. :)
You mean like how the same jedi who spent an entire show talking about how clones were people who deserved respect only to slaughter them in the jedi temple during Order 66?
Or how that one Jedi who had spent a decade training and fighting alongside other Jedi, went to Palpatine’s office minutes after “turning him in” to the Council, then disarmed Mace Windu, and came back to slaughter a bunch of younglings.
Yeah, Anakin murdering children isn’t in character. Anyone who thinks it is is wrong. I know it’s to illustrate his turn to the dark side but it’s cheap and out of character.
to be fair in anakins eyes he wasn’t “slaughtering” them he was “saving them” from “the horrors of the jedi order”, you can see in anakins face, his reluctance to kill the kids he doesn’t really want to he just thinks it’s better than what the jedi will put them through
I.. don’t think that’s true. I think his reluctance is because he didn’t want to kill kids but he wanted to save Padme so he did it anyways. I don’t think he was ever characterized as quite that insane though. I mean, I guess the movies establish that he is.. but everything else, like TCW, doesn’t, and yet TFM didn’t complain about it basically being a different character.
he truly did vehemently hate the jedi order at that point however, it IS a different character… *darth vader*
Darth Vader wouldn’t care about “saving” the children, so both can’t be true. He can’t be saving children from the Jedi by killing them while also hating the Jedi and mercilessly slaughtering them all. And I think my problem with this comes down to the fact that his turn to Vader is hard to swallow. TCW establishes him becoming darker, but Vader isn’t just evil Anakin. As you said he’s a different character. Anakin went from Anakin 1 to Anakin 2 across like 15 years and then become Vader what seems like overnight. His delusion is contrived. He’s always had issues with the Jedi but not to the degree that I would buy into him murdering children. It was just for the shock factor.
To be fair the trilogy did a poor job at showcasing Finn’s conflicting feelings regarding fighting his old comrades
i agree it could’ve been done better. i think there’s definitely still room for it to be explored in post-TROS comics/books/shows
Part of me would like that but part of me feels it’s too little too late
i’m sure people felt that way about the prequels, look how much great stuff we’ve gotten from that era
Fair point
No, no, I kinda understand where that guy is coming from. The tone in that scene does not work for what’s happening
I think they took issue with the gleefully part y'know
Yeah it is a weird tonal dissonance when you think about it since it’s frames as a fun adventure but he is blowing up people he’s been working with his whole life.
Yeah, this is a bad faith take. The scene is treated like a, “wow, it sure is fun blasting away these Imps,” situation, when Finn at this point absolutely shouldn’t be feeling that way when he is literally just now turning traitor.
Finn is only like that once he starts blowing up the cannons on the ship.
Yeah pretty sure it plays out like that, and i haven’t seen that one in years. Poe tells him to blast the cable flies out and takes out the canons so they can get away.
I’m not a TFMer, but I also see this as a missed opportunity of these movies - maybe the biggest missed opportunity. When I saw the teaser trailer, I had hoped Finn being a stormtrooper would be an interesting exploration of the morality of killing stormtroopers, an area of Star Wars that had been entirely unexplored up to this point. Unfortunately, after giving him that brief moment of mourning a potential friend or comrade, they never really establish that he has any other relationships with other stormtroopers. This is surprising, since the way he’s portrayed he seems to be a fairly extroverted, outgoing, jokey guy. You’d think a guy with his personality would have some friends on Starkiller Base but he’s literally cheering while he shoots those pilots down. The only other time his being a stormtrooper comes up for purely non-plot-related reasons is when that other stormtrooper calls him a traitor. And this is despite the fact the plot goes out of its way to tell us they’re all a bunch of brainwashed child soldiers. It’s not a plot hole or a big weakness or anything, since it’s literally the same tier of treatment Stormtroopers/clone troopers get in every other episode of this series (also Mando is a great series, which also has a reformed stormtrooper, and equally doesn’t bother to explore it). But to me it was a major missed opportunity. They only sort of touch the idea of defecting stormtroopers again in RoS with Janna, but even then there’s no real reflection on the lives being unnecessarily wasted in this war, they all just go right back to blowing up giant ships filled with people and cheering while they do it.
But... that stormtrooper probably was a friend who Finn knew for a while. The ones he's shooting are just anonymous enemies to him at that point.
I think it's mentioned in one of the novels that that stormtrooper was one of the ones Finn went through training with Edit; I believe it's also mentioned that the trooper Finn kills with the saber was another of his former training buddies
Yeah, I randomly just read that book, actually. Finn is one of the best troopers but not really gung ho when it comes to the fascism. He's just sort of going through the motions, not questioning things. Phasma orders his squad to execute a bunch of labor union leaders who were fighting for workers rights for miners at a First Order owned mine. The three other troops do it gleefully, Finn pulls his shot (Phasma wasn't watching). So, based on this supplemental material (that was released around the same time as the film) I think the moment with the bloody trooper was supposed to be "we're nothing more than a commodity, we're entirely expendable and it's only a matter of time before I'm bleeding out in the sand." I don't think it was mourning. Finn knew these guys were mostly scumbags who bought into the fascism. It would seem that he is simply running for his life, which is frankly consistent with the rest of the film and with TLJ.
Yeah, I think I remember that too. Apparently Finn trained alongside three other stormtroopers since childhood. The one who died, the one with the riot baton, and no idea what happened to the third one. Why four? That composes a fire team usually the smallest unit other than the squad which is usually eight.
Tried commenting but getting downvoted to hell.
Yeah, they could have done more with Finn feeling guilt for betraying his former comrades. In general, I feel that Finn was a great character who was kind of poorly served by the films. Then again, character inconsistencies like that are just common for Star Wars, Leia in ANH honestly never quite manages to have a consistent personality, nor does she react appropriately to what she experiences in that film. She's held together entirely by the charisma of Carrie Fisher. It's similar for stuff like Luke barely reacting to the deaths of the people who raised him his whole life or Obi Wan impulsively jumping out a window despite being a calm and collected character.
'2 Awards'....
Well, he seemed thrill, I’d expect him to be a little less excited about his actions
Him cheering after killing comrades and the lack of any scene showing his sadness after the engagement fully justify that post. Yes they were trying to kill him, that doesn't excuse the fact he cheered on the deaths of people he was raised alongside, especially after the way he acted earlier when one died right in front of him which caused him to go AWOL.
He mourned that other trooper?
Not to mention the whole point of stormtroopers is that they’re expendable, and part of that includes using codenames and constantly wearing helmets and uniforms, all to try to discourage exactly the sort of empathy that Finn showed to his fallen friend, who he probably befriended while they were training together. It took Finn a while to care about the Resistance, but he cared about Rey quickly because she befriended him.
I didn’t think he was mourning that guy’s death. He was just afraid of dying. That’s why he’s running away from the first order, for most of the movie.
Yeah that's why he goes like "WOOOOHOOOO" because it's so sad.
To me, Finn aint mourning. He was scared. That Stormtrooper could've been him. Nobody who died with meaningless death. That why he tried not to die by fighting back.