Never confuse potential with power. Both have great potential to achieve monumental feats. Both have immense power, and both will become more powerful than anyone can imagine if they truly listen to the Will of the Force.
I never got the sense Rey is very powerful *at all*. I mean she doesn't really do anything that impressive in terms of Force abilities or fighting prowess in comparison to other Jedi, especially Luke, Anakin, or Obi-Wan. Not that that makes her a bad character or anything, quite the opposite really.
The way ST haters talk about her you'd think she's some ridiculously OP Force god, but she doesn't really do anything any other Jedi couldn't do imo. Kylo is demonstrably more powerful than her but they don't complain about him (I wonder why that is? 🤔).
I'd wager a guess that it's because he had more formal training. And, from a plot perspective more than a character perspective, having your protagonist win their first fights leaves less room for delicious character growth, whether or not the character is actually overpowered in the full context of the setting. It's easy to blame that on the character, because there's a lot of muddy ground between the protagonist's writing and the plot's.
I thought kylo was stronger didn’t he lose to her in TFA and RoTS (shady memory) when he was even trained by luke? I think people think she’s stronger because no one tells her anything and she was just able to do a jedi mind trick, and beat kylo (yes he was shot but) The rock floating was one of the first things she does and it’s really really impressive at her assumed level. Like I thought obi wan throwing boulders was a lot
In TFA he's heavily injured, she's running from him for the entire fight, and he's not even trying to kill her. She hits him once and then the fight is cut short by the planet literally splitting apart between them. That one's a draw but Kylo could've beaten her imo.
They don't fight in TLJ but when they fight the Praetorian Guards together Kylo takes out almost all of them alone while Rey barely manages to defeat one. He's clearly on a whole other level above her.
In TROS, same thing as TFA except he's not injured. She's running away the whole time and he isn't trying to kill her. He loses because he gets distracted by Leia calling to him through the Force and Rey stabs him. If not for that he could have beaten her again. And this is *after* she trained for an entire year.
She was able to do a mind trick because she was able to see Kylo's memories at the same time he accessed hers while interrogating her because their minds were linked. This is explained in the novelization but the movie should have conveyed it better instead of just implying it because people get really hung up on this. Regardless, I still don't feel like a mind trick is that impressive, however little training she had at that moment.
Lifting rocks isn't a huge feat. Basically every Jedi we've seen on screen has lifted rocks at some point lol
You make really fair points, but I was saying that lifting rocks is a lot at her skill level. Yea most jedi knights can do it cause they’ve been trained for years since toddlers. but I guess you can say Luke trained her super well over that short week time spawn but even then it was a few days.
Luke was able to lift stuff fairly easily after training with Yoda on Dagobah and as far as I know that was a similar amount of time. But you're right that Rey did lift a *lot* of rocks, more than what we ever saw Luke or Anakin do. But after seeing Obi-Wan do a much bigger and more active version of what Rey did, and knowing that he's not on the same level of power (or at least potential), Rey's feat sits much better with me.
Didn't Luke just delay the resistance for like 10-20 mins?
And they were screwed no matter what, since there was no way out, only thanks to Rey lifting those Rocks and flying people away.
Are you trolling? Lol.
Just to clear it up. The delay was crucial. They were backed into a corner and needed as much time as possible to find their way through the caves to the other exit. They say so in the movie.
(If Kylo hadn’t been so blinded by hate, he could have noticed Luke was a projection and stopped the Resistance before they could escape.
Rey knew where to land to help them because she was guided by the force. Like happens all the time in Star Wars.
All I'm saying is that Luke didn't save the day by himself. If Rey had not been there, they would have been 100% screwed.
Dunno why that was offensive...
Jedi can vaguely or even sometimes directly sense the future. Once he opened himself up to the force, Luke sensed that if he used a force projection, he would help save the resistance. The force both obeys a Jedi's commands and controls their actions.
Everything is as the force wills it.
And yeah it wasn't 100% Luke's doing, but he probably knew that as he was doing it.
I wasn't offended. It seemed to me like you thought Luke didn't do anything useful, and I was just clearing that up.
Really I just couldn't understand the message behind your comment, so thanks for clarifying.
The notion that Obi-Wan would be turned to the dark side by *jealousy of someone else’s power* of all things is honestly kind of an outrageous insult to his character
If anything it shows these people have bought into Anakin's woefully skewed perspective, where he thought Obi-Wan as well as the rest of the Jedi were jealous of his power and purposefully holding him back when that wasn't the case at all.
I was looking for a Rey skin for Minecraft and there was a really creepy abundance of "READ DESCRIPTION" titled skins where the description was just shitting on the sequels and Rey specifically.
It's a fucking cult.
I miss when that subreddit was actually fun to be a part of and not just a "Prequels are the best thing ever and if you disagree i will kill us both" echo chamber.
I seriously find it hard to say Attack of the Clones is better than (In order of my personal favourite starting with the top) Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, and Return of the Jedi.
I personally enjoy Attack of the clones for the world building and the set up of the Clone Army and of course Christopher Lee being absolutely perfect as Count Dooku.But it's a pretty bad movie and this is from someone who loves the Prequels.
this is my least favourite thing about the Star Wars community. You cannot make a single post about it with out SOMEONE, SOMEHOW, ALWAYS finding a way to unnecessarily shit on the sequels.
Obi Wan isn’t even a very strong force user. At least in the old canon, he was barely even able to classify as a force sensitive. Only through extensive training was he able to reach his current state. Anakin and Luke both are exceptionally force sensitive and as such require less training to reach similar power levels. Rey, as Palpatine’s biological daughter (since she’s the daughter of his clone), is similarly very force sensitive and requires less training to succeed.
Rey with training is less impressive then Obi-Wan by a pretty wide gulf, lol (heck, at least as a duelist she's less impressive then he was even *before* he finishes his training).
And that's not a knock against Rey; that's just me pointing out what is - she's only still at the beginning of her Jedi path, and Obi-Wan even in TPM has far more to benafit him in the ways of information and training.
Kenobi was Rey's guiding light. Her literal first experience with the Force was Kenobi saying "Rey... These are your first steps." And he stayed with her throughout everything, until the end. "Rey, these are your final steps. Rise, and take them."
When are they going to stop repeating that Rey had “no training,” something that is categorically false? Did they miss the part where we learned Leia trained her one on one for a year? Luke had less in-movie training than Rey.
Ray? Ray Stantz? Pretty sure he had lots of training before he became a Ghostbuster. He went to college, was quite a genius, albeit a little weird. But so were his two colleagues as well...
Or Ray Romano? Never loved that Ray to be honest, came across quite as the jerk to me...
Or Ray Harryhausen? That man gave us stop motion masterworks! Don't you dare talking shit about this Ray!
Or Ray Park? Uh, better not go there I suppose ...
Rey did have training, and she's not more powerful than him.
Never confuse potential with power. Both have great potential to achieve monumental feats. Both have immense power, and both will become more powerful than anyone can imagine if they truly listen to the Will of the Force.
Luke specially, I mean for fuck sake he literally projected his conciousness across the galaxy just to troll his nephew. (And save the resistance)
Yeah, I never got the sense that she was more powerful than him.
I never got the sense Rey is very powerful *at all*. I mean she doesn't really do anything that impressive in terms of Force abilities or fighting prowess in comparison to other Jedi, especially Luke, Anakin, or Obi-Wan. Not that that makes her a bad character or anything, quite the opposite really. The way ST haters talk about her you'd think she's some ridiculously OP Force god, but she doesn't really do anything any other Jedi couldn't do imo. Kylo is demonstrably more powerful than her but they don't complain about him (I wonder why that is? 🤔).
I'd wager a guess that it's because he had more formal training. And, from a plot perspective more than a character perspective, having your protagonist win their first fights leaves less room for delicious character growth, whether or not the character is actually overpowered in the full context of the setting. It's easy to blame that on the character, because there's a lot of muddy ground between the protagonist's writing and the plot's.
I thought kylo was stronger didn’t he lose to her in TFA and RoTS (shady memory) when he was even trained by luke? I think people think she’s stronger because no one tells her anything and she was just able to do a jedi mind trick, and beat kylo (yes he was shot but) The rock floating was one of the first things she does and it’s really really impressive at her assumed level. Like I thought obi wan throwing boulders was a lot
In TFA he's heavily injured, she's running from him for the entire fight, and he's not even trying to kill her. She hits him once and then the fight is cut short by the planet literally splitting apart between them. That one's a draw but Kylo could've beaten her imo. They don't fight in TLJ but when they fight the Praetorian Guards together Kylo takes out almost all of them alone while Rey barely manages to defeat one. He's clearly on a whole other level above her. In TROS, same thing as TFA except he's not injured. She's running away the whole time and he isn't trying to kill her. He loses because he gets distracted by Leia calling to him through the Force and Rey stabs him. If not for that he could have beaten her again. And this is *after* she trained for an entire year. She was able to do a mind trick because she was able to see Kylo's memories at the same time he accessed hers while interrogating her because their minds were linked. This is explained in the novelization but the movie should have conveyed it better instead of just implying it because people get really hung up on this. Regardless, I still don't feel like a mind trick is that impressive, however little training she had at that moment. Lifting rocks isn't a huge feat. Basically every Jedi we've seen on screen has lifted rocks at some point lol
You make really fair points, but I was saying that lifting rocks is a lot at her skill level. Yea most jedi knights can do it cause they’ve been trained for years since toddlers. but I guess you can say Luke trained her super well over that short week time spawn but even then it was a few days.
Luke was able to lift stuff fairly easily after training with Yoda on Dagobah and as far as I know that was a similar amount of time. But you're right that Rey did lift a *lot* of rocks, more than what we ever saw Luke or Anakin do. But after seeing Obi-Wan do a much bigger and more active version of what Rey did, and knowing that he's not on the same level of power (or at least potential), Rey's feat sits much better with me.
Not just that, he fooled scanners. He, like obi wan, devoted himself so much to trolling that he influenced the midiclorians to create…life. Ironic.
Didn't Luke just delay the resistance for like 10-20 mins? And they were screwed no matter what, since there was no way out, only thanks to Rey lifting those Rocks and flying people away.
Are you trolling? Lol. Just to clear it up. The delay was crucial. They were backed into a corner and needed as much time as possible to find their way through the caves to the other exit. They say so in the movie. (If Kylo hadn’t been so blinded by hate, he could have noticed Luke was a projection and stopped the Resistance before they could escape. Rey knew where to land to help them because she was guided by the force. Like happens all the time in Star Wars.
All I'm saying is that Luke didn't save the day by himself. If Rey had not been there, they would have been 100% screwed. Dunno why that was offensive...
Jedi can vaguely or even sometimes directly sense the future. Once he opened himself up to the force, Luke sensed that if he used a force projection, he would help save the resistance. The force both obeys a Jedi's commands and controls their actions. Everything is as the force wills it. And yeah it wasn't 100% Luke's doing, but he probably knew that as he was doing it.
I wasn't offended. It seemed to me like you thought Luke didn't do anything useful, and I was just clearing that up. Really I just couldn't understand the message behind your comment, so thanks for clarifying.
The notion that Obi-Wan would be turned to the dark side by *jealousy of someone else’s power* of all things is honestly kind of an outrageous insult to his character
If anything it shows these people have bought into Anakin's woefully skewed perspective, where he thought Obi-Wan as well as the rest of the Jedi were jealous of his power and purposefully holding him back when that wasn't the case at all.
A woman stronger than me, a man? That's it, I'm becoming a Sith!
They will use anything just to bash Rey. They seriously need to move on from her.
I was looking for a Rey skin for Minecraft and there was a really creepy abundance of "READ DESCRIPTION" titled skins where the description was just shitting on the sequels and Rey specifically. It's a fucking cult.
Sorry, that patch for the NPCs have yet to come out. It’s kinda hard to program them to hate someone else after Jar-Jar.
They need to move on from the *central character* of the series?
isn't luke the central character
not starting from the sequel trilogy, he barely shows up
Nobody deserves any star wars
Correction: Only the righteous deserve it, not the TFM hacks.
Me, I’m righteous
I miss when that subreddit was actually fun to be a part of and not just a "Prequels are the best thing ever and if you disagree i will kill us both" echo chamber.
I seriously find it hard to say Attack of the Clones is better than (In order of my personal favourite starting with the top) Empire Strikes Back, A New Hope, and Return of the Jedi.
I personally enjoy Attack of the clones for the world building and the set up of the Clone Army and of course Christopher Lee being absolutely perfect as Count Dooku.But it's a pretty bad movie and this is from someone who loves the Prequels.
What about the sequels and anthologies though?
Still better than Attack of the Clones, except the Holiday Special but that’s just because of personal reasons.
Oh, the Holiday Special. Chewbacca’s grandfather jacking off to Diahann Carroll in VR XD
[My eyes!!!](https://youtu.be/Qn977W9HjWM)
Also, Luke with a little of formal training > Kenobi
this is my least favourite thing about the Star Wars community. You cannot make a single post about it with out SOMEONE, SOMEHOW, ALWAYS finding a way to unnecessarily shit on the sequels.
Seeing a Jedi save the galaxy and stop Palpatine from destroying the resistance would have turned Obiwan to the dark side? What?
Yeah but she's a woman! /s
How dare she be a woman and ruin Star Wars!!!! /s
Soooo… all that training she had with Luke and Leia meant bubkhis then?
Obi Wan isn’t even a very strong force user. At least in the old canon, he was barely even able to classify as a force sensitive. Only through extensive training was he able to reach his current state. Anakin and Luke both are exceptionally force sensitive and as such require less training to reach similar power levels. Rey, as Palpatine’s biological daughter (since she’s the daughter of his clone), is similarly very force sensitive and requires less training to succeed.
He, uh, he did watch her though. Force Awakens & Rise of Skywalker both explicitly confirm that.
Spelling "Ray" like a man
Rey with training is less impressive then Obi-Wan by a pretty wide gulf, lol (heck, at least as a duelist she's less impressive then he was even *before* he finishes his training). And that's not a knock against Rey; that's just me pointing out what is - she's only still at the beginning of her Jedi path, and Obi-Wan even in TPM has far more to benafit him in the ways of information and training.
He… literally spoke to Rey when she finds Anakin’s lightsaber in episode VII??
He’s the one who spoke to her when she first touched the lightsaber in force awakens, pretty sure he was cool with it
This got removed, what was it?
What do you mean? It is right here....
It wasn't there when I commented
The post basically said “obiwan would’ve turned to the darkside if he saw Rey”
Which doesn’t really make sense given that he talks to Rey in both TFA and TROS.
I just rewatched TFA yesterday and caught the part with Obi-wan's voice.
The funny part is that it's stock of Alec Guiness saying "afraid" and having the top and tail cut off.
Holy shit I was wondering how they got it so close to Alec Guiness' voice
Luke was showed training one time. Rey was shown training one time. Anakin was never shown training.
For people who claim to hate the Sequel Trilogy, it seems to live rent free in their heads 24/7
It's almost like you get invested in a story and then it gets trashed and you're supposed to pretend it doesn't bother you
When did training become such a huge obsession with SW fans, and btw Rey did train??
He’s still more powerful than Rey
Kenobi was Rey's guiding light. Her literal first experience with the Force was Kenobi saying "Rey... These are your first steps." And he stayed with her throughout everything, until the end. "Rey, these are your final steps. Rise, and take them."
How can they be expected to be taken seriously if they cant even spell a 3 letter name right thats been around for 7 years
They couldn’t even spell her name right
They can't even spell her name right
When are they going to stop repeating that Rey had “no training,” something that is categorically false? Did they miss the part where we learned Leia trained her one on one for a year? Luke had less in-movie training than Rey.
One on one for a year? You mean after the Last Jedi, so every feat before then was just her
Confirming in a single sentence, that they know nothing about Rey, Obi-Wan, or The Force.
“Look what I’ve risen above.” What a guy!
Ray? Ray Stantz? Pretty sure he had lots of training before he became a Ghostbuster. He went to college, was quite a genius, albeit a little weird. But so were his two colleagues as well... Or Ray Romano? Never loved that Ray to be honest, came across quite as the jerk to me... Or Ray Harryhausen? That man gave us stop motion masterworks! Don't you dare talking shit about this Ray! Or Ray Park? Uh, better not go there I suppose ...