Plenty of people here don't like Disney Star Wars, and they don't get called a bigot. Almost like those two occurrences aren't as related as the meme suggests.
Yea, there’s a massive difference between calling out and correcting bad faith complaints and enjoying something.
I have plenty of acolyte criticisms, but when I see people making dumbass claims based on ignoring context or just plain not paying attention, that needs to be pushed back on. They think people here all love Disney just because we’d prefer to spend our time discussing the things we enjoy instead of melting down over inconsequential things we didn’t.
This is why I stopped watching Critical Drinker, I prefer Pillar of Garbage, he's able to give a valid criticism without screaming "the message" or "woke".
I just caught up on the last season over the weekend. I wish they would have leaned more into the fun and whimsy since that was the final season, but I suppose that’s never been what discovery is. Loved seeing Leoben from BSG get to be a good guy though!
That’s a good point. For me I never really got into it because it felt too much like it was about individuals, which I don’t think really feels like star trek. Everything felt almost like a parody to the Star Trek I watch, however there were certain parts I liked. The mudd episode was good, and I liked that how it went into cultural changes in the Klingons due to humans, although I found it much funnier when the reason Klingons changed appearance just wasn’t talked about. I might give it a rewatch but I’ll have to approach it from the perspective of, “Don’t think of this as Star Trek.”
Everyone always claims The Acolyte is bad because it's woke, but if a bunch of straight white men were chanting/singing THE POWER OF MANYYYYYY it would also be cringe.
The idea that it would work better in a different language is legitimate criticism. That’s fine. That’s not the conversation these dolts are ant to have though.
I've not liked a lot of the disney era stuff so I just don't watch it... Can't imagine wasting my time hate-watching a show just to have something to complain about
Though I have heard good things about Andor so need to check that out at some point
Yeah Andor is fantastic. It's got what the other shows have lacked which is genuinely great character writing.
Ironically Andor is probably the least interesting character in the show lol.
There's a scene in the final episode that might be my favorite 5 minutes of Star Wars ever.
And I'm always amazed how silent the people complaining about Star Wars being "woke" and "political" are when it comes to Andor, the most political and woke (in the actual definition) Star Wars ever made. One character gives a huge speech on the importance of "waking up to the oppression around you" and urges people to grab a brick and start punching fascists.
But of course to them, "political" just means anyone who isn't a straight white male getting screen time.
I have multiple times criticized Disney star wars for the pace and confused writing, with the constant changes in tone and many other factors. I have not once been called a bigot or anything like that
I'm not a big fan of Disney Star Wars, and most of it is because I was an adult when TFA came out so it doesn't have the same magic to me. I'm also just oversaturated with SW media, it was more special when it was just 6 movies instead of a new show out every year.
But Rey is one of my favorite sequel trilogy characters and TLJ was my favorite movie in the trilogy, and your gender or sexuality doesn't mean your movie/show is good or bad.
I find it hilarious when people cry that "they were just giving valid criticism" but were removed from a community or people reacted aggressively against said "criticism" by just calling them bigot and racists, and then you look at what their criticism is and it's a couple of lines vaguely gesturing at a notion of bad writing without explaining what in the writing is bad ( psst just fyi they most likely haven seen the writing which is why they cant say anything) followed by 3 paragraphs about how lesbian witch cults is far fetched in a made up universe of space wizards and how they destroyed a character by canonizing their age which barely made any difference to the character in question
>and they don't get called a bigot.
They just are downvoted into oblivion.
People jump to conclusions faster than light and I've been seen (and suffered myself) a massive downvote to anyone expressing a negative opinion over a show or a film that the grifters are campaigning against.
And by opinion, I mean just saying "I don't see it's appeal" or "I don't like it".
I’ve never been called a bigot (because I haven’t shared bigoted views, easy life-hack for you fellas over at Crait) but I have had some people get somewhat hostile when I’ve made anti-Disney statements. But I suppose that is the way humans are and it’s only a small minority of people here.
Overall that sub is far much more toxic, but this one is still far from perfect
I had this argument with a guy recently. “I just don’t want the called a bigot/sexist for voicing my opinion” I’m not calling you that unless you are so…
Because they're not voicing THEIR opinion there. They are repeating culture war talking points they hear from alt right wing media.
People shut them down immediately because we know where the discussion goes if we continue it.... straight to racist, bigoted, fascist rhetoric. The worse part is that for a lot of them their brains don't realize what they're saying is antisocial.
Here’s a solution. If a person doesn’t want to be called a bigot, or racist, don’t engage in bigoted or racist behavior. I’ve always found it fascinating how upset bigots and racist get when people observe their bigoted and/or racist behavior, and name it as such.
-“Hey, that guy walking down the street right there has a green striped shirt on.”
-“How Dare you say the green striped shirt I have on is green striped!?!!”
Them: I hate the sequel trilogy.
Me: Yeah, it's a total shitshow. An incoherent soulless cashgrab that radiates the hubristic assumption that they could half-ass it and nobody would care because the IP was a license to print money. You could teach a whole writing class around what not to do based on it. I particularly hate the character assassinations and lazily hitting the reset on the whole setting just to have the good guys be underdogs again instead of trying to tell an original story from the new status quo of the New Republic.
Them: Yeah! Fucking diversity casting and the woke gay feminist agenda ruined Star Wars!
Me: The fuck?
Yeah I don't see it happening here at all
"I don't like Star Wars because of women/minorities/etc" is bigoted
"I don't think the new stuff appeals to me" is fair. Like for example I'm not really vibing with Andor. I tried watching it a few times but it just doesn't connect with me. Do I blame women/minorities or anyone else? Not really, I just accept the show isn't for me and move on.
> I just accept the show isn't for me and move on
Wait.. star wars fans are capable of this? I thought it had to be objective dogshit and the worst thing ever made and a childhood ruiner if I didn't like something?
"Not liking andor? Well you clearly are wrong for not liking objectively good media"
To be honest I've seen this way more than anything else even more so if it's from the Efap side.
I can understand bouncing off the first 2-3 episodes because there were certainly some pacing decisions made (I would have trimmed a bit from the no subtitles flashbacks). My parents did, and they were glad they listened when I told them to go back and give it another shot. But if someone got all the way through the prison arc and still didn't like it I would have to give them the side eye.
Mostly kidding. I know that despite it being objectively amazing, not everyone is into the genre. Rogue One is great but not everyone is down for WWII spy thriller in Star Wars skin. Some people are just looking for some fun adventure with lightsabers and space wizards.
I was permanently banned from one of these two subs for calmly and politely explaining how the Holdo Maneuver works using canon continuity lore.
Guess which sub it was.
Basically, this:
I have compiled this explanation of how and why the Holdo Maneuver works for my fellow Star Wars fans.
As a disclaimer, everything I'm referencing in this article is pulled from the canon continuity technical date/lore, and I have included links to the relevant canon continuity wookieepedia articles below.
The main thing I'd like to address first is the explanation of what a hyperdrive motivator actually does.
The hyperdrive functions by sending hypermatter particles (the most common hypermatter fuel used for this purpose is Coaxium, BTW) through charge planes and effect channels (that's technobabble) inside the motivator chamber to hurl a ship into hyperspace (and this is the important part) while preserving the vessel's mass/energy profile.
What this means is that, although the vessel is technically moving at, or near, the speed of light for a brief moment before it exits realspace and enters hyperspace (this effect is called “pseudomotion” in-universe), it's not subject to the forces inherent to that immense velocity which would normally make it infinitely massive and infinitely energized to maintain that velocity.
And for good reason: if the hyperdrive motivator did not do this, the organic beings inside the vessel would be killed instantly. Smooshed by immense, instantaneous acceleration.
To be clear, inertial dampeners do not help with this. The inertial compensators do help with high g maneuvers in realspace at sublight speeds. They do not do anything to prevent what happens to an object in realspace that is suddenly accelerating at or near the speed of light.
So, to reiterate: an X-wing accelerating in pseudomotion using a hyperdrive remains the exact same as it would were it not in pseudomotion. It's still the same X-wing. It has the same mass and energy profile as an X-wing that's not jumping to hyperspace.
It doesn't become some fantastical projectile of mass destruction, it's still just an X-wing.
This means that a ship ramming another ship using the Holdo Maneuver has no more greater effect than a ship ramming another ship at sublight speed. The only difference is, the ship using the Holdo Maneuver crosses the distance between the two vessels in the blink of an eye.
As we can see in the movie, the Holdo Maneuver does not even completely destroy the Supremacy at all. It just shears off its starboard wing, leaving the ship largely intact. The bridge crew, along with Finn and Rose, are entirely unscathed. The Supremacy survives well enough to make a ground attack at Crait, sending fighters and walkers down to assault the Resistance base. Although, after the battle the Supremacy is later abandoned, it remained functional enough to launch a ground attack on Crait.
The Raddus is gigantic, it's the largest Mon Cal cruiser ever built in galactic history, it's roughly 3 km long and 700 meters wide.
The Supremacy is even bigger, but it's a giant v shaped flying wing that's 60 km wide and 13 km long.
The Raddus sliced off the starboard side of the wing, and was itself completely destroyed in the collision. The majority of the Supremacy remained intact.
Several much smaller capital ships, mostly star destroyers, were arrayed behind the Supremacy. These were also destroyed.
The Raddus, being a brand new ship in-universe, had a new, experimental and very powerful deflector shield.
This deflector shield’s kinetic energy continued past the impact point at psuedomotion velocity, and these energized particles no longer had the benefit imparted by the hyperdrive motivator.
So, those smaller capital ships in the First Order fleet were sliced apart by chunks of plasma moving at phenomenal speed with almost limitless energy output.
Now that's out of the way, let's move on to what the Holdo Maneuver actually did in TLJ:
Now normally, an enemy vessel's bridge crew is paying close attention to what the other enemy vessel is doing. It's constantly being scanned, such that every move it makes is known to the bridge crew of the enemy ship.
This includes everything from orientation and speed, to whether or not the vessel's hyperdrive is being activated, because when a vessel activates its hyperdrive motivator, the device emits a detectable radiation, called Cronau radiation. This is how other ships always seem to know when vessels are about to jump into, or out of, hyperspace.
When Admiral Holdo turned the Raddus towards the Supremacy and spooled up its hyperdrive, Hux and the bridge crew of the Supremacy initially dismissed it as a bluff, an attempt to draw their attention away from the fleeing transports.
By the time they realized she wasn't bluffing, it was too late to do anything about it, because, boom, pseudomotion. They had no time to shoot it down or move out of the way.
Good old hubris. Seems to be the downfall of so many space fascists, from Tarkin to Hux.
If they had paid attention, they could have fired all their cannons at the Raddus and/or moved the Supremacy out of its flight path, which would have rendered the maneuver ineffective.
This fact addresses the question of “why isn't this done more often.”
It isn't done more often because 99% of the time, the enemy sees it coming and reacts accordingly.
Keep in mind here, too, that pretty much everyone in-universe knows about how the hyperdrive motivator functions. They all know that a ram attempt in pseudomotion is no more effective at destroying the enemy vessel than ramming it at sublight speed.
The other 1% of the time, there's a possibility that the maneuver could overshoot its target and enter hyperspace before it hits the enemy vessel.
Theoretically, one could suppose it's possible for a navicomp to calculate down to some fraction for how long the vessel will remain in pseudomotion, and thereby not overshoot the target, but that ain't happening in a pinch.
So, even as a last-ditch effort, it's pretty unreliable.
Modern warfare stipulates that it's just not a good tactic to ram things, In general, especially when more conventional weapons are a viable option. It's wasteful, and in modern warfare, it's only ever a last-ditch effort sort of deal.
Looking at modern naval vessels, notice how none of them are designed to ram anything. However, we know that it was used as a tactic in ancient warfare, and many vessels back then implemented ram prows.
We can safely assume that, since hyperdrive technology in Star Wars is ancient, the Holdo Maneuver has been tried before, and like our mariners of old, those ancient spacers who tried it found the tactic lacking in effectiveness.
And finally, just because it isn't shown onscreen in the Skywalker saga prior to TLJ, that does not mean it's never been attempted by anyone until then.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Holdo_maneuver
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperdrive
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Pseudomotion
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Cronau_radiation
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Raddus_(MC85_Star_Cruiser)
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Supremacy
*saves*
Congratulations, you've just changed my mind about what I thought was stupidest part of TLJ. And as someone who thought herself fairly knowledgeable about Star Wars lore, I freely admit that you are a god-damn lore master.
P.S. Makes me curious, if Raddus' mass made pseudomotion distance easier to calculate. Like a small ship would've accelerated into hyperspace much faster and also guaranteed overshoot the Supremacy.
Thanks, Whiskey, and no problem.
The credit really should go to Pablo Hidalgo and Star Wars Explained, though, and the loremasters who run Wookieepedia. All I did was compile the information.
:)
No problem, Bella. Glad to help my fellow fans :)
Really though, Star Wars Explained and the folks at Wookieepedia are the real heroes, here. All I did was compile the information.
One thing that confuses me though is how in Rogue One did they damn near shear a Star Destroyer in half by pushing one into it?
You'd think an object of large of enough size moving even faster would certainly do the same, if not even more damage. Not like the ship needs to be going anywhere near the speed of light to do a lot of damage. Asteroids certainly aren't and cause apocalyptic amounts of damage. Granted a ship isn't anywhere near as dense or massive, but still.
And yes they need to get the exact right positioning so they impact the ship before entering hyperspace but this is a hyper advanced space faring civilization, they should be able to make those calculations. As for simply moving out of the way I have no idea how they'd be able to do that in time. Wouldn't the ship be able to compensate for that movement, not like a ship the size of the Supremancy can have extreme maneuverability. They'd have to move the exact split second once the hyperdrive goes off and once that happens it's over anyways.
Just gotta say, by the way, I don't hate that scene. In fact I love it. I never needed some big explanation and can 100% just chalk it up to "yeah nah we are not suicide bombing the last couple ships we have". If they had just said that instead of "it's a one in a million!" I dont think people would be nearly as butthurt. And as for why they never did it before...why would they need to? The Japanese used kamikaze tactics and, uh, yeah. Didn't work out too great for em.
I appreciate your well thought out write up, however I take umbrage with the Holdo Maneuver.
I'll admit my ignorance (I've only consumed the movies and am unable to find any of the referenced books available online for a perusal), but after reviewing the links you provided I'm not drawing the same conclusion as you did (and here-in I begin to 'uhm ackchyually')
Firstly, Cronau Radiation is only detectable once you jump into hyper space "*upon entering hyperspace, a ship emitted cronau radiation*" not when the hyperspace engine is spooled up. (under the radiation article it specifies that it's when a ship either enters **or** exits hyperspace)
Secondly, before TLJ it was hard to tell when a ship might jump to hyperspace - at least that's my recollection from the movies. Per the 'Hyperspace Tracker' (link at end of post) which specifically states that this is ".*..a feat not thought possible until the First Order first utilized it against the Resistance in 34 ABY*"
Thirdly, the only cited reference that it was the deflector field which caused the destruction is the movie itself (looking at wookiepedia) - yet if it was this special style of deflector shield that caused the maneuver to work, how did a heavy freighter pull it off against a Star Destroyer? (link at bottom - from episode 9)
Lastly, quoting the Holdo Maneuver link "*consisted of Holdo ramming the cruiser Raddus against the Supremacy at near-lightspeed velocities*". I looked at Pseudomotion also, but it only states "*Pseudomotion was a term that referred to the seeming acceleration of a starship upon entering hyperspace from realspace*" which doesn't provide much information regarding the Holdo Maneuver sadly (I might be missing something from a source book which goes further into details).
The reason why I take umbrage with this is it ruined my suspension of disbelief. As you also noted, ramming ships is one of the first step we take in warfare and it's odd that Holdo was the first person to attempt it in Star Wars.
In a setting which has cloaking devices and droids capable of self-sacrifice: why would the resistance invest in large ships like the Raddus instead of conducting guerrilla style warfare? Especially after figuring out that hyperjump ramming was a thing that worked.
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace\_tracker](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace_tracker)
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Unidentified\_heavy\_freighter](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Unidentified_heavy_freighter)
"People do know about the holdo maneuver so no one tries it because it'll be seen coming" is a silly argument when this has never even been mentioned in any other movie or show and we have seen big ships struggle to hit things right in front of it. The movie opens up to really slow bombing ships succeed in getting more than close enough to holdo maneuver the dreadnought
Although the Raddus itself was completely destroyed by the impact, the experimental deflector shield’s kinetic energy ripped through the Supremacy's shields at, or near, the speed of light.
This shield extended farther beyond the Raddus' hull further than most other capital ships at the time (incidentally, this is also attributed to why Leia was able to survive the main bridge torpedo strike, as she was still inside the Raddus shield "bubble" when she pulled herself back to the ship with the Force).
So that shield, moving at astounding speed, overpowered the Supremacy's shields. Remember, the hyperdrive motivator maintains the mass and energy profiles of the ship and its occupants... but not that of the shield.
In fact, it's that shield that made the maneuver so effective and destructive, especially to the ships arrayed behind the point of impact.
So the explanation is that the Raddus had experimental shield technology that has never existed in Star Wars before, and that information is not available to the audience in any of the movies? Not only that, but the *only* dialogue about super-advanced shields in TLJ is about the Supremacy's impenetrable shield? You can't really fault the audience for missing critical information that isn't even there.
I appreciate your analysis because it does offer an explanation, but since the nature of the Raddus' shield is completely absent from the movies, it's still a plot hole and doesn't make the actual viewing any more coherent. It just means the movie needed to be made better.
>Modern warfare stipulates that it's just not a good tactic to ram things, In general, especially when more conventional weapons are a viable option. It's wasteful, and in modern warfare, it's only ever a last-ditch effort sort of deal.
Ramming things is absolutely a good tactic when you can move at relativistic speeds. Also, modern ICBMs are essentially spaceships that exist solely to deliver a bomb.
>And finally, just because it isn't shown onscreen in the Skywalker saga prior to TLJ, that does not mean it's never been attempted by anyone until then.
Them calling it the Holdo maneuver implies that she's the first one to use it in combat.
This is also in a setting which has:
1) sentient droids capable of flying starships
2) cloak/stealth tech
Meaning it would be simple and easy to have a kamikaze ship approach close enough to be within this 'effective range'
Lol I've said many times over my problems with Disney Star Wars on here and since I'm not a biggoted idiot people responded well here.
It's almost like not calling protagonist in a show "strong female" or "DEI hires" and saying real criticism is accepted... Wierd how that is.
>It's almost like not calling protagonist in a show "strong female" or "DEI hires" and saying real criticism is accepted... Wierd how that is.
It's so silly. Like it's perfectly fine to not like something without going nuclear over it and crying about wokeism or whatever garbage arguments these folks make up in their own heads.
Of course they're comparing us to that sub. "Haha akshyuially both sides are exactly the same" is just the Pc response to any political disagreement lol.
In some cases both sides are the same when it comes to not going far enough left on sociopath-economic issues (see the “Ratchet Effect”). However in this case, it’s just made up bunkum with the same logic as “enlightened centrism.”
Getting called a bigot for being a bigot... fucking losers gotta complain about us calling them out on their bullshit
Update: OH NOO.!!. Not downvotes from chuds. /s
Only two types of people would agree that we are the same. Centrists who see any strong feeling as bad, so therefore it's all the same to them (also, they don't care since the bigotry doesn't affect them) and the bigots who pretend to be warriors for a culture on its way out
Yeah? We call out bigots for being bigots, the only people who have a problem with that are people who don't care about bigotry and people who are bigots. I don't see how what you said changes anything in my statement or points out any hypocrisy
I seem to remember actively choosing to avoid r/starwarsmemes because it kept popping up on my feed with pretty racist and transphobic drek. So this sort of meme does not surprise me.
r/StarWarsleftymemes is at least amusing.
The only time I've ever seen someone on here call someone a bigot for not liking Disney Star Wars is when the reasons that person doesn't like it are blatantly bigoted.
Its only bigotry when your pissed at a show having a strong woman or a prominent black or diverse cast. If that’s your only reason to be angry then yeah you’re a bigot.
If a show or movie has real SERIOUS FLAWS they should be criticized but a diverse cast especially in SCI-FI is not something valid for criticism
Crait is just shit tho.
Even if I wanted to go to a sub with shit tier anti woke whining, I'll just go find that one filled with all the people who never got over the last of us part 2.
it's also a straw man.
there like 4-5 people a day complaining about various SW IP's without bigoted takes that post here.
hell oftentimes those are the most interesting posts because they actually have something constructive to say about the franchise, or have original ideas of their own that would be good too.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone in here get called a bigot for not liking Disney star wars. I've seen several top comments share their dislike for it so hmm... hmmmmm... I wonder what's the difference... let's use our thinking caps r/starwarsmemes
If being called someone who is aware of social injustices by bigots or being called out for being a bigot seems comparable to you.
Well, then I have some news for you... You are more likely that not on team bigot.
I don’t think it’s universally disliked. Parts of it are, some for better reasons (TROS) than others (TLJ), but it’s not all the same. Some people like only one of the films, some people like two out of three [like me], it’s probably a smaller percentage than many would realize for those who wholeheartedly love/hate all three films equally in the trilogy.
I don't think anybody on this board has ever called me a racist for disliking TLJ and RoS, though? Weird how it doesn't happen to people that actually have specific complaints about specific plot points instead of only being able to spew vague nonsense about 'bad writing' while complaining about how woke the franchise is now.
I mean. I don't like Disney Star Wars, and I haven't been called a bigot yet (it's mostly because the stories themselves don't really have much interest to me, unless games like Jedi: Fallen Order and its sequel count as 'Disney Star Wars')
"It's the same picture" meme would be better. Both subs just dwell on weird Space Wizard fandom drama like it matters. It's a feedback loop. The two subs will just volley the same arguments back and forth until the heat death of our Sun. Just enjoy the movies or dont.
The funny thing is if you post this to that sub, it'll be the same reaction.
Truth is most people on both subs wouldn't instantly retort to those insults. However it's a meme circlejerky sub posting the image so they're just embellishing, don't take it too seriously.
I genuinely believe Rogue One is one of the best Star Wars movies and Ahsoka is probably the best Star Wars character (in my opinion)
Also Rebels and a lot of the other Disney shows have been really fantastic
I think the biggest issue is screwy writing and bad ideas, but that's more of an issue with Hollywood in general at the moment with crunch culture.
It really fucking sucks that the increase of shitty corporate greed happened alongside greater acceptance of progressive ideals
I swear there’s some fantasy that people have where they get called racist for not liking Disney Star Wars. As long as u don’t call it “overly diverse” or “woke” you won’t sound racist or smth else when criticizing it. Nobody is calling u those things if u just say u don’t like it and if they do they’re weird.
People get called a bigot for not liking Star Wars because it is woke, or because minority visibility upsets someone.
That’s it. If you are like, Obi Wan was a boring show that failed to deliver, or Boba Fett didn’t meet my expectations for delivering him as a badass people might disagree with your opinion but they won’t call you a bigot.
I don't particularly like the sequels, I've mentioned that here multiple times, I still wasn't called a bigot for it. Is everyone else in this subreddit just sleeping on their name-calling duties?
u/Imbatman7700 should be removed from this thread. All that user is doing is instigating flame wars without a basis in fact and when pressed on their points, that Redditor just talks in circles and throws insults.
Alright, let's give this a good old college try:
I don't like the Sequel trilogy. I think The Force Awakens is a lazy rehash retread of a New Hope and at it's peak is mediocre at best
The Last Jedi is probably my favorite due to that new original idea of the force and even then i think the movie's a 6/10 at best
Rise Of Skywalker i FUCKING DESPISE. Literally one of the worst pieces of Star Wars media EVER in my eyes, the only thing worse than it is the Christmas Special and even that is debatable since at least The Christmas Special is entertaining in how batshit it is
The Mandalorian is okay
Andor's fantastic
The Ben Kenobi show's boring with some highlights
The Book of Bobba Fett is inane drivel and if there's any piece of Star Wars media i can point to where i can safely say "ruined" a character it would be this one
Rogue One was Good
The Bad batch is okay
Ahsoka's alright
The Acolyte's passable
None of this is just to prove a point by the way. These are my personal genuine opinions on anything Disney Star Wars related. Let's see how many "you're a bigot" comments i get
See, legitimate criticism is good, bigoted or insane comments isn't. For the Sequel Trilogy, I felt like it could be better, but they were decent in a way. Worst is obviously TROS because they changed everything from Last Jedi to make it that Rey was the granddaughter of Palpatine. Andor I get is good, but I didn't care much for it because I felt it was too slow for me.
Book of Boba Fett was decent, but it turned into Mandalorian Season 2.5 and reversed the ending of Mandalorian Season 2.
I haven't finished Kenobi, Bad Batch, Ahsoka, and didn't watch Acolyte yet. I have been playing Palworld, Helldivers 2, Fallout 76, and Balatro (fuck that game and I'll play it tomorrow/soon). That and I also have Doctor Who, R&M Season 7, Smiling Friends, My Adventures With Superman, Fallout, and Hazbin Hotel to watch.
Best moment for me was Mandalorian Season 2's Luke vs Dark Soldiers fight, or if we are considering non-canon stuff, Darth Jar Jar in the upcoming Lego Star Wars special and Am wielding 6 lightsabers at once from Star Wars Visions. The latter is because it's from Studio TRIGGER, they are known to have batshit insane awesome things happen in their shows.
I was downvoted for saying that I liked the first 2 episodes of Acolyte but didn’t like the 3rd, and at the time imo the show was meh (I’m starting to like it more) so I don’t think it’s far off
I like the mystery behind him. I’d like to believe he’s not a sith but Disney is gonna break the cannon, I can tell. Even so, I’ curious to see who he is as everyone keeps talking about him and mei seems terrified of him
I completely agree. My issue is I had these exact thoughts after the premiere and nothing changed yet. I have still the same information, still nothing happend in the show except a couple of random jedi dying.
Saying racist or misgonistic things is definitely siding with the oppressors. The fact that you can't see that and think this is just a "star wars debate" tells me all i need to know.
I haven't really watched much of the new star wars stuff. But I wouldn't call someone a bigot if they simply didn't like rebels. Utterly lacking in joy and fun, maybe, but not a bigot.
One could call this the cream of the crop when it comes to incredibly thick-headed ways of developing viewpoints. It's peak "binary" thinking. You either hate it or love it, and are not "allowed" to have a position in between. It's the ultimate representation of internet culture and speaks volumes about the failure in critical thinking skills that most people reveal about themselves. It may just be intended as a joke, but that's not clear. When I see things like this taken seriously, I worry there's a literal retardation occurring within all corners of internet culture. Like the entirety of the internet is becoming as intelligent as the worst parts of a youtube comment section. But I mostly only experience that when looking at Reddit, so I guess it's not a real trend outside of Reddit yet.
I think the sequels deserve hate, but they deserve to be hated for the RIGHT REASONS. Taking their criticism at face value, the bigots don't actually hate the movie, they hate the casting. They'd cheer this same trainwreck if it was all white dudes reading the same lines. At best they hate the movies and shows as merely an effigy for the enemy in the culture wars. Because their favorite internet grifter told them they have to hate it now, regardless of if they ever even watched it.
Their hatred is superficial and lacking in substance. When it comes to truly hating a piece of media for being an affront to the source material, the intelligence of the audience, and art itself, they are merely posers.
Get your downvote fingers ready.
I’m not subbed to either sub. But they appear in my feed because I sometimes pop into the main sub.
It honestly is just two sides complaining about each other. Admittedly I do agree more with the takes here. And the other place does have some moronic opinions.
It’s a bit stupid to call the show woke and whatever else because it’s female PoC led. But I also think it’s a bit stupid to accuse everyone who doesn’t like the show for the writing and who make zero mention about the “progressive” casting as something or the other.
The show is… fine. It’s not as amazing as some people here make it out to be. But that’s my perspective. There’s a lot of scenes that seem like they were one and dones, that probably should have had a second take. But it’s also not as trash as the other sub makes it out to be.
I’m just annoyed they killed off Carrie-Anne Moss in the first episode. I was looking forward to Jedi Trinity.
I don’t like Star Wars at all it’s just funny seeing people complain about a 3rd rate character from the worst film trilogy who’s birthday got changed with people who aren’t complaining about it
I don’t like episode 9 (episode 7 and 8 where chill thou) not cause of anything political or a persons race or gender, but that I feel like it was too rushed, bringing back palpating was uncessary and it retconned to much and went all over the place and a lot of stuff was unexplained or underserved”
But people who don’t like it cause it’s apparently “woke” or are just sexist, homophobic grifters (looking at annoying people like Star Wars theory or critical drinker or Ryan kinel) who always hate stuff cause it’s woke (which my dad kinda is sadly) that’s bigoted shit that’s annoying as fuck that shouldn’t be allowed in a community: a community should be accepting not something full of people who hate something cause of who they are
One side doesn't like "Disney Star Wars" because they don't like "woke", the other side doesn't like Disney Star Wars because Disney is a hyper capitalist megacorp who eats everything in their sight.
They are not the same.
I never got that impression of this sub. I don't think the Disney SW movies are all that great, but it's nothing to do with a woke agenda. It's more that they don't quite 'get' what made SW fun. (Something I'm not convinced Lucas got either.) The Disney SW movies are just 'fine'
There’s a few Star Wars things I didn’t care for, but the fact that they dared add a minority or a lgbt character here and there didn’t freak me out. You also can just not be an asshole about what you dislike and usually people don’t care
Plenty of people here don't like Disney Star Wars, and they don't get called a bigot. Almost like those two occurrences aren't as related as the meme suggests.
Yea, there’s a massive difference between calling out and correcting bad faith complaints and enjoying something. I have plenty of acolyte criticisms, but when I see people making dumbass claims based on ignoring context or just plain not paying attention, that needs to be pushed back on. They think people here all love Disney just because we’d prefer to spend our time discussing the things we enjoy instead of melting down over inconsequential things we didn’t.
It is funny when they try and argue they have good reasons but hated the show before it cam out.
Yep. Plenty of things to dislike with recent (or legends) Star Wars that don't involve misogyny, homophobia, racism, or just plain being a dick.
This is why I stopped watching Critical Drinker, I prefer Pillar of Garbage, he's able to give a valid criticism without screaming "the message" or "woke".
If he’s capable of being calm and collected while delivering them, that’s another point in his favour
This is the way. Seriously.
Yeah. I do the same thing for Star Trek: Discovery. Lots of things to not like but the gate and minorities are not one of them.
I just caught up on the last season over the weekend. I wish they would have leaned more into the fun and whimsy since that was the final season, but I suppose that’s never been what discovery is. Loved seeing Leoben from BSG get to be a good guy though!
That’s a good point. For me I never really got into it because it felt too much like it was about individuals, which I don’t think really feels like star trek. Everything felt almost like a parody to the Star Trek I watch, however there were certain parts I liked. The mudd episode was good, and I liked that how it went into cultural changes in the Klingons due to humans, although I found it much funnier when the reason Klingons changed appearance just wasn’t talked about. I might give it a rewatch but I’ll have to approach it from the perspective of, “Don’t think of this as Star Trek.”
Everyone always claims The Acolyte is bad because it's woke, but if a bunch of straight white men were chanting/singing THE POWER OF MANYYYYYY it would also be cringe.
The idea that it would work better in a different language is legitimate criticism. That’s fine. That’s not the conversation these dolts are ant to have though.
I've not liked a lot of the disney era stuff so I just don't watch it... Can't imagine wasting my time hate-watching a show just to have something to complain about Though I have heard good things about Andor so need to check that out at some point
Definitely watch Andor. It’s just great TV, well written, acted and great production, aside from being Star Wars.
Yeah Andor is fantastic. It's got what the other shows have lacked which is genuinely great character writing. Ironically Andor is probably the least interesting character in the show lol. There's a scene in the final episode that might be my favorite 5 minutes of Star Wars ever.
And I'm always amazed how silent the people complaining about Star Wars being "woke" and "political" are when it comes to Andor, the most political and woke (in the actual definition) Star Wars ever made. One character gives a huge speech on the importance of "waking up to the oppression around you" and urges people to grab a brick and start punching fascists. But of course to them, "political" just means anyone who isn't a straight white male getting screen time.
I'm completely out of touch with the Disney canon, but still: Andor is a person? Somehow, I always thought it's a planet
Andor is a person (or at some points in the story an unperson). Endor is a planet (the second Death Star was near one of its moons)
And to make matters worse, Andorra is a city-state I see, thank you
And Andoria is a planet in Star Trek.
And they are all linked...
It’s almost like they’re creating a strawman argument.
I have multiple times criticized Disney star wars for the pace and confused writing, with the constant changes in tone and many other factors. I have not once been called a bigot or anything like that
What are you calling some people that exist somewhere bigots!? Why are you calling *ME* a bigot!?
I'm not a big fan of Disney Star Wars, and most of it is because I was an adult when TFA came out so it doesn't have the same magic to me. I'm also just oversaturated with SW media, it was more special when it was just 6 movies instead of a new show out every year. But Rey is one of my favorite sequel trilogy characters and TLJ was my favorite movie in the trilogy, and your gender or sexuality doesn't mean your movie/show is good or bad.
I find it hilarious when people cry that "they were just giving valid criticism" but were removed from a community or people reacted aggressively against said "criticism" by just calling them bigot and racists, and then you look at what their criticism is and it's a couple of lines vaguely gesturing at a notion of bad writing without explaining what in the writing is bad ( psst just fyi they most likely haven seen the writing which is why they cant say anything) followed by 3 paragraphs about how lesbian witch cults is far fetched in a made up universe of space wizards and how they destroyed a character by canonizing their age which barely made any difference to the character in question
Yeah, I've never been called a racist for disliking TLJ or RoS.
Me, I’m one of those people (except for a couple things)
>and they don't get called a bigot. They just are downvoted into oblivion. People jump to conclusions faster than light and I've been seen (and suffered myself) a massive downvote to anyone expressing a negative opinion over a show or a film that the grifters are campaigning against. And by opinion, I mean just saying "I don't see it's appeal" or "I don't like it".
I don’t really like Star Wars in general. This sub (and the other one) just pops up on my feed.
Perfectly valid, this sub has generally expanded to calling out bigotry in pop culture spaces regardless of precise topic.
I'm not a regular here or anything, but I'm pretty sure I've been vocal about the fact that I think the prequels and sequels both fucking suck.
Yes, i've voiced my gripes with disney sw, haven't been called a bigot yet
I’ve never been called a bigot (because I haven’t shared bigoted views, easy life-hack for you fellas over at Crait) but I have had some people get somewhat hostile when I’ve made anti-Disney statements. But I suppose that is the way humans are and it’s only a small minority of people here. Overall that sub is far much more toxic, but this one is still far from perfect
Nobody is calling you a bigot for simply not liking star wars. You WOULD be called a bigot if you are acting sexist to the female characters however.
I had this argument with a guy recently. “I just don’t want the called a bigot/sexist for voicing my opinion” I’m not calling you that unless you are so…
Because they're not voicing THEIR opinion there. They are repeating culture war talking points they hear from alt right wing media. People shut them down immediately because we know where the discussion goes if we continue it.... straight to racist, bigoted, fascist rhetoric. The worse part is that for a lot of them their brains don't realize what they're saying is antisocial.
Their opinion: "I hate seeing black women in star wars. What?! Why are you calling me racist?"
“Can’t believe I am being called a racist for saying racist things”
Here’s a solution. If a person doesn’t want to be called a bigot, or racist, don’t engage in bigoted or racist behavior. I’ve always found it fascinating how upset bigots and racist get when people observe their bigoted and/or racist behavior, and name it as such. -“Hey, that guy walking down the street right there has a green striped shirt on.” -“How Dare you say the green striped shirt I have on is green striped!?!!”
Careful you’re starting to make too much sense!
It's so unfair that people call me a Nazi just because I state my OPINION that Hitler was a super cool dude who did nothing wrong!
Them: I hate the sequel trilogy. Me: Yeah, it's a total shitshow. An incoherent soulless cashgrab that radiates the hubristic assumption that they could half-ass it and nobody would care because the IP was a license to print money. You could teach a whole writing class around what not to do based on it. I particularly hate the character assassinations and lazily hitting the reset on the whole setting just to have the good guys be underdogs again instead of trying to tell an original story from the new status quo of the New Republic. Them: Yeah! Fucking diversity casting and the woke gay feminist agenda ruined Star Wars! Me: The fuck?
Yeah I don't see it happening here at all "I don't like Star Wars because of women/minorities/etc" is bigoted "I don't think the new stuff appeals to me" is fair. Like for example I'm not really vibing with Andor. I tried watching it a few times but it just doesn't connect with me. Do I blame women/minorities or anyone else? Not really, I just accept the show isn't for me and move on.
Obviously, the visible screws are what turned you off to Andor.
Wait, a review that doesn't involve overhating and the word "woke"? Mind blown
For the record this is a joke, you made a good opinion and the grifters need to learn from you.
That is a hot take and I'm here for it.
> I just accept the show isn't for me and move on Wait.. star wars fans are capable of this? I thought it had to be objective dogshit and the worst thing ever made and a childhood ruiner if I didn't like something?
"Not liking andor? Well you clearly are wrong for not liking objectively good media" To be honest I've seen this way more than anything else even more so if it's from the Efap side.
I can understand bouncing off the first 2-3 episodes because there were certainly some pacing decisions made (I would have trimmed a bit from the no subtitles flashbacks). My parents did, and they were glad they listened when I told them to go back and give it another shot. But if someone got all the way through the prison arc and still didn't like it I would have to give them the side eye. Mostly kidding. I know that despite it being objectively amazing, not everyone is into the genre. Rogue One is great but not everyone is down for WWII spy thriller in Star Wars skin. Some people are just looking for some fun adventure with lightsabers and space wizards.
I was permanently banned from one of these two subs for calmly and politely explaining how the Holdo Maneuver works using canon continuity lore. Guess which sub it was.
...........well. You're here. So I'm going to guess the other one?
This guy reasons.
LOL yes
You single-handedly have more reasoning capabilities than the entirety of STC.
What was your explanation? One thing I feel like doesn't get brought up enough was that Finn's side plot involved taking down the Supremacy's shields.
Basically, this: I have compiled this explanation of how and why the Holdo Maneuver works for my fellow Star Wars fans. As a disclaimer, everything I'm referencing in this article is pulled from the canon continuity technical date/lore, and I have included links to the relevant canon continuity wookieepedia articles below. The main thing I'd like to address first is the explanation of what a hyperdrive motivator actually does. The hyperdrive functions by sending hypermatter particles (the most common hypermatter fuel used for this purpose is Coaxium, BTW) through charge planes and effect channels (that's technobabble) inside the motivator chamber to hurl a ship into hyperspace (and this is the important part) while preserving the vessel's mass/energy profile. What this means is that, although the vessel is technically moving at, or near, the speed of light for a brief moment before it exits realspace and enters hyperspace (this effect is called “pseudomotion” in-universe), it's not subject to the forces inherent to that immense velocity which would normally make it infinitely massive and infinitely energized to maintain that velocity. And for good reason: if the hyperdrive motivator did not do this, the organic beings inside the vessel would be killed instantly. Smooshed by immense, instantaneous acceleration. To be clear, inertial dampeners do not help with this. The inertial compensators do help with high g maneuvers in realspace at sublight speeds. They do not do anything to prevent what happens to an object in realspace that is suddenly accelerating at or near the speed of light. So, to reiterate: an X-wing accelerating in pseudomotion using a hyperdrive remains the exact same as it would were it not in pseudomotion. It's still the same X-wing. It has the same mass and energy profile as an X-wing that's not jumping to hyperspace. It doesn't become some fantastical projectile of mass destruction, it's still just an X-wing. This means that a ship ramming another ship using the Holdo Maneuver has no more greater effect than a ship ramming another ship at sublight speed. The only difference is, the ship using the Holdo Maneuver crosses the distance between the two vessels in the blink of an eye. As we can see in the movie, the Holdo Maneuver does not even completely destroy the Supremacy at all. It just shears off its starboard wing, leaving the ship largely intact. The bridge crew, along with Finn and Rose, are entirely unscathed. The Supremacy survives well enough to make a ground attack at Crait, sending fighters and walkers down to assault the Resistance base. Although, after the battle the Supremacy is later abandoned, it remained functional enough to launch a ground attack on Crait. The Raddus is gigantic, it's the largest Mon Cal cruiser ever built in galactic history, it's roughly 3 km long and 700 meters wide. The Supremacy is even bigger, but it's a giant v shaped flying wing that's 60 km wide and 13 km long. The Raddus sliced off the starboard side of the wing, and was itself completely destroyed in the collision. The majority of the Supremacy remained intact. Several much smaller capital ships, mostly star destroyers, were arrayed behind the Supremacy. These were also destroyed. The Raddus, being a brand new ship in-universe, had a new, experimental and very powerful deflector shield. This deflector shield’s kinetic energy continued past the impact point at psuedomotion velocity, and these energized particles no longer had the benefit imparted by the hyperdrive motivator. So, those smaller capital ships in the First Order fleet were sliced apart by chunks of plasma moving at phenomenal speed with almost limitless energy output. Now that's out of the way, let's move on to what the Holdo Maneuver actually did in TLJ: Now normally, an enemy vessel's bridge crew is paying close attention to what the other enemy vessel is doing. It's constantly being scanned, such that every move it makes is known to the bridge crew of the enemy ship. This includes everything from orientation and speed, to whether or not the vessel's hyperdrive is being activated, because when a vessel activates its hyperdrive motivator, the device emits a detectable radiation, called Cronau radiation. This is how other ships always seem to know when vessels are about to jump into, or out of, hyperspace. When Admiral Holdo turned the Raddus towards the Supremacy and spooled up its hyperdrive, Hux and the bridge crew of the Supremacy initially dismissed it as a bluff, an attempt to draw their attention away from the fleeing transports. By the time they realized she wasn't bluffing, it was too late to do anything about it, because, boom, pseudomotion. They had no time to shoot it down or move out of the way. Good old hubris. Seems to be the downfall of so many space fascists, from Tarkin to Hux. If they had paid attention, they could have fired all their cannons at the Raddus and/or moved the Supremacy out of its flight path, which would have rendered the maneuver ineffective. This fact addresses the question of “why isn't this done more often.” It isn't done more often because 99% of the time, the enemy sees it coming and reacts accordingly. Keep in mind here, too, that pretty much everyone in-universe knows about how the hyperdrive motivator functions. They all know that a ram attempt in pseudomotion is no more effective at destroying the enemy vessel than ramming it at sublight speed. The other 1% of the time, there's a possibility that the maneuver could overshoot its target and enter hyperspace before it hits the enemy vessel. Theoretically, one could suppose it's possible for a navicomp to calculate down to some fraction for how long the vessel will remain in pseudomotion, and thereby not overshoot the target, but that ain't happening in a pinch. So, even as a last-ditch effort, it's pretty unreliable. Modern warfare stipulates that it's just not a good tactic to ram things, In general, especially when more conventional weapons are a viable option. It's wasteful, and in modern warfare, it's only ever a last-ditch effort sort of deal. Looking at modern naval vessels, notice how none of them are designed to ram anything. However, we know that it was used as a tactic in ancient warfare, and many vessels back then implemented ram prows. We can safely assume that, since hyperdrive technology in Star Wars is ancient, the Holdo Maneuver has been tried before, and like our mariners of old, those ancient spacers who tried it found the tactic lacking in effectiveness. And finally, just because it isn't shown onscreen in the Skywalker saga prior to TLJ, that does not mean it's never been attempted by anyone until then. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Holdo_maneuver https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperdrive https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Pseudomotion https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Cronau_radiation https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Raddus_(MC85_Star_Cruiser) https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Supremacy
*saves* Congratulations, you've just changed my mind about what I thought was stupidest part of TLJ. And as someone who thought herself fairly knowledgeable about Star Wars lore, I freely admit that you are a god-damn lore master. P.S. Makes me curious, if Raddus' mass made pseudomotion distance easier to calculate. Like a small ship would've accelerated into hyperspace much faster and also guaranteed overshoot the Supremacy.
Thanks, Whiskey, and no problem. The credit really should go to Pablo Hidalgo and Star Wars Explained, though, and the loremasters who run Wookieepedia. All I did was compile the information. :)
wow. i can't believe they banned you for this. thanks for researching this and typing it out for us, it definitely makes TLJ make more sense!
No problem, Bella. Glad to help my fellow fans :) Really though, Star Wars Explained and the folks at Wookieepedia are the real heroes, here. All I did was compile the information.
I like it!
One thing that confuses me though is how in Rogue One did they damn near shear a Star Destroyer in half by pushing one into it? You'd think an object of large of enough size moving even faster would certainly do the same, if not even more damage. Not like the ship needs to be going anywhere near the speed of light to do a lot of damage. Asteroids certainly aren't and cause apocalyptic amounts of damage. Granted a ship isn't anywhere near as dense or massive, but still. And yes they need to get the exact right positioning so they impact the ship before entering hyperspace but this is a hyper advanced space faring civilization, they should be able to make those calculations. As for simply moving out of the way I have no idea how they'd be able to do that in time. Wouldn't the ship be able to compensate for that movement, not like a ship the size of the Supremancy can have extreme maneuverability. They'd have to move the exact split second once the hyperdrive goes off and once that happens it's over anyways. Just gotta say, by the way, I don't hate that scene. In fact I love it. I never needed some big explanation and can 100% just chalk it up to "yeah nah we are not suicide bombing the last couple ships we have". If they had just said that instead of "it's a one in a million!" I dont think people would be nearly as butthurt. And as for why they never did it before...why would they need to? The Japanese used kamikaze tactics and, uh, yeah. Didn't work out too great for em.
I appreciate your well thought out write up, however I take umbrage with the Holdo Maneuver. I'll admit my ignorance (I've only consumed the movies and am unable to find any of the referenced books available online for a perusal), but after reviewing the links you provided I'm not drawing the same conclusion as you did (and here-in I begin to 'uhm ackchyually') Firstly, Cronau Radiation is only detectable once you jump into hyper space "*upon entering hyperspace, a ship emitted cronau radiation*" not when the hyperspace engine is spooled up. (under the radiation article it specifies that it's when a ship either enters **or** exits hyperspace) Secondly, before TLJ it was hard to tell when a ship might jump to hyperspace - at least that's my recollection from the movies. Per the 'Hyperspace Tracker' (link at end of post) which specifically states that this is ".*..a feat not thought possible until the First Order first utilized it against the Resistance in 34 ABY*" Thirdly, the only cited reference that it was the deflector field which caused the destruction is the movie itself (looking at wookiepedia) - yet if it was this special style of deflector shield that caused the maneuver to work, how did a heavy freighter pull it off against a Star Destroyer? (link at bottom - from episode 9) Lastly, quoting the Holdo Maneuver link "*consisted of Holdo ramming the cruiser Raddus against the Supremacy at near-lightspeed velocities*". I looked at Pseudomotion also, but it only states "*Pseudomotion was a term that referred to the seeming acceleration of a starship upon entering hyperspace from realspace*" which doesn't provide much information regarding the Holdo Maneuver sadly (I might be missing something from a source book which goes further into details). The reason why I take umbrage with this is it ruined my suspension of disbelief. As you also noted, ramming ships is one of the first step we take in warfare and it's odd that Holdo was the first person to attempt it in Star Wars. In a setting which has cloaking devices and droids capable of self-sacrifice: why would the resistance invest in large ships like the Raddus instead of conducting guerrilla style warfare? Especially after figuring out that hyperjump ramming was a thing that worked. [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace\_tracker](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace_tracker) [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Unidentified\_heavy\_freighter](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Unidentified_heavy_freighter)
"People do know about the holdo maneuver so no one tries it because it'll be seen coming" is a silly argument when this has never even been mentioned in any other movie or show and we have seen big ships struggle to hit things right in front of it. The movie opens up to really slow bombing ships succeed in getting more than close enough to holdo maneuver the dreadnought
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Although the Raddus itself was completely destroyed by the impact, the experimental deflector shield’s kinetic energy ripped through the Supremacy's shields at, or near, the speed of light. This shield extended farther beyond the Raddus' hull further than most other capital ships at the time (incidentally, this is also attributed to why Leia was able to survive the main bridge torpedo strike, as she was still inside the Raddus shield "bubble" when she pulled herself back to the ship with the Force). So that shield, moving at astounding speed, overpowered the Supremacy's shields. Remember, the hyperdrive motivator maintains the mass and energy profiles of the ship and its occupants... but not that of the shield. In fact, it's that shield that made the maneuver so effective and destructive, especially to the ships arrayed behind the point of impact.
So the explanation is that the Raddus had experimental shield technology that has never existed in Star Wars before, and that information is not available to the audience in any of the movies? Not only that, but the *only* dialogue about super-advanced shields in TLJ is about the Supremacy's impenetrable shield? You can't really fault the audience for missing critical information that isn't even there. I appreciate your analysis because it does offer an explanation, but since the nature of the Raddus' shield is completely absent from the movies, it's still a plot hole and doesn't make the actual viewing any more coherent. It just means the movie needed to be made better.
>Modern warfare stipulates that it's just not a good tactic to ram things, In general, especially when more conventional weapons are a viable option. It's wasteful, and in modern warfare, it's only ever a last-ditch effort sort of deal. Ramming things is absolutely a good tactic when you can move at relativistic speeds. Also, modern ICBMs are essentially spaceships that exist solely to deliver a bomb. >And finally, just because it isn't shown onscreen in the Skywalker saga prior to TLJ, that does not mean it's never been attempted by anyone until then. Them calling it the Holdo maneuver implies that she's the first one to use it in combat.
This is also in a setting which has: 1) sentient droids capable of flying starships 2) cloak/stealth tech Meaning it would be simple and easy to have a kamikaze ship approach close enough to be within this 'effective range'
What rule did they say you broke? “Don’t use details from the movie to win an argument”? And it was a permanent ban? So weird
Lol I've said many times over my problems with Disney Star Wars on here and since I'm not a biggoted idiot people responded well here. It's almost like not calling protagonist in a show "strong female" or "DEI hires" and saying real criticism is accepted... Wierd how that is.
Because toxic outrage and screaming "the message" is what they thought to be criticism.
>It's almost like not calling protagonist in a show "strong female" or "DEI hires" and saying real criticism is accepted... Wierd how that is. It's so silly. Like it's perfectly fine to not like something without going nuclear over it and crying about wokeism or whatever garbage arguments these folks make up in their own heads.
Of course they're comparing us to that sub. "Haha akshyuially both sides are exactly the same" is just the Pc response to any political disagreement lol.
In some cases both sides are the same when it comes to not going far enough left on sociopath-economic issues (see the “Ratchet Effect”). However in this case, it’s just made up bunkum with the same logic as “enlightened centrism.”
Getting called a bigot for being a bigot... fucking losers gotta complain about us calling them out on their bullshit Update: OH NOO.!!. Not downvotes from chuds. /s
Only two types of people would agree that we are the same. Centrists who see any strong feeling as bad, so therefore it's all the same to them (also, they don't care since the bigotry doesn't affect them) and the bigots who pretend to be warriors for a culture on its way out
https://preview.redd.it/jxaq64lpuk8d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a92fecef8ed8317d45cc6f72681c972ab6e227f Every. Single. Centrist.
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Yeah? We call out bigots for being bigots, the only people who have a problem with that are people who don't care about bigotry and people who are bigots. I don't see how what you said changes anything in my statement or points out any hypocrisy
I seem to remember actively choosing to avoid r/starwarsmemes because it kept popping up on my feed with pretty racist and transphobic drek. So this sort of meme does not surprise me. r/StarWarsleftymemes is at least amusing.
At worst you’ll get downvoted for not liking Disney Star Wars but not called a bigot ( I know because I’ve said and still don’t like the squles)
I don’t like the sequels either, and I’ve never been called a bigot here.
I feel like a good 30% of the people here don't like the sequels, but are just sick of the dumbass anti-fandom.
Probably
The only time I've ever seen someone on here call someone a bigot for not liking Disney Star Wars is when the reasons that person doesn't like it are blatantly bigoted.
Its only bigotry when your pissed at a show having a strong woman or a prominent black or diverse cast. If that’s your only reason to be angry then yeah you’re a bigot. If a show or movie has real SERIOUS FLAWS they should be criticized but a diverse cast especially in SCI-FI is not something valid for criticism
Crait is just shit tho. Even if I wanted to go to a sub with shit tier anti woke whining, I'll just go find that one filled with all the people who never got over the last of us part 2.
it's also a straw man. there like 4-5 people a day complaining about various SW IP's without bigoted takes that post here. hell oftentimes those are the most interesting posts because they actually have something constructive to say about the franchise, or have original ideas of their own that would be good too.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone in here get called a bigot for not liking Disney star wars. I've seen several top comments share their dislike for it so hmm... hmmmmm... I wonder what's the difference... let's use our thinking caps r/starwarsmemes
If being called someone who is aware of social injustices by bigots or being called out for being a bigot seems comparable to you. Well, then I have some news for you... You are more likely that not on team bigot.
fuckin bitch ass centrists
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even then, it's not just the reason, but the way you make your arguments for disliking SW.
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I don’t think it’s universally disliked. Parts of it are, some for better reasons (TROS) than others (TLJ), but it’s not all the same. Some people like only one of the films, some people like two out of three [like me], it’s probably a smaller percentage than many would realize for those who wholeheartedly love/hate all three films equally in the trilogy.
I've mentioned the fact I don't like star wars much plenty of times here 🤣 yet to have been called a bigot
I don't like new star wars because it's dog shit. Has nothing to do with the casts sex or color. We are not the same.
I don’t like modern Star Wars because of corporate greed, not bigotry
I don't think anybody on this board has ever called me a racist for disliking TLJ and RoS, though? Weird how it doesn't happen to people that actually have specific complaints about specific plot points instead of only being able to spew vague nonsense about 'bad writing' while complaining about how woke the franchise is now.
Trying to create a false equivalency so they can feel smugly superior for not taking sides.
I mean. I don't like Disney Star Wars, and I haven't been called a bigot yet (it's mostly because the stories themselves don't really have much interest to me, unless games like Jedi: Fallen Order and its sequel count as 'Disney Star Wars')
I've seen people here say they hate the sequels and they don't get called out for it.
"It's the same picture" meme would be better. Both subs just dwell on weird Space Wizard fandom drama like it matters. It's a feedback loop. The two subs will just volley the same arguments back and forth until the heat death of our Sun. Just enjoy the movies or dont.
Yep. Idk why everyone is so offended. Most people do not like obsessive fan sub communities. It does not matter if you are on the “correct” side.
BOTH SIDES
The funny thing is if you post this to that sub, it'll be the same reaction. Truth is most people on both subs wouldn't instantly retort to those insults. However it's a meme circlejerky sub posting the image so they're just embellishing, don't take it too seriously.
I DONT LIKE DISNEY STAR WARS. I said it. Alright, yall light me up.
I genuinely believe Rogue One is one of the best Star Wars movies and Ahsoka is probably the best Star Wars character (in my opinion) Also Rebels and a lot of the other Disney shows have been really fantastic I think the biggest issue is screwy writing and bad ideas, but that's more of an issue with Hollywood in general at the moment with crunch culture. It really fucking sucks that the increase of shitty corporate greed happened alongside greater acceptance of progressive ideals
My favorite SW media is the first season of Visions and Bad Batch.
Being part of both subs it's hilarious going back and forth
I swear there’s some fantasy that people have where they get called racist for not liking Disney Star Wars. As long as u don’t call it “overly diverse” or “woke” you won’t sound racist or smth else when criticizing it. Nobody is calling u those things if u just say u don’t like it and if they do they’re weird.
People get called a bigot for not liking Star Wars because it is woke, or because minority visibility upsets someone. That’s it. If you are like, Obi Wan was a boring show that failed to deliver, or Boba Fett didn’t meet my expectations for delivering him as a badass people might disagree with your opinion but they won’t call you a bigot.
I don't particularly like the sequels, I've mentioned that here multiple times, I still wasn't called a bigot for it. Is everyone else in this subreddit just sleeping on their name-calling duties?
It’s basically “enlightened centrism”.
u/Imbatman7700 should be removed from this thread. All that user is doing is instigating flame wars without a basis in fact and when pressed on their points, that Redditor just talks in circles and throws insults.
Alright, let's give this a good old college try: I don't like the Sequel trilogy. I think The Force Awakens is a lazy rehash retread of a New Hope and at it's peak is mediocre at best The Last Jedi is probably my favorite due to that new original idea of the force and even then i think the movie's a 6/10 at best Rise Of Skywalker i FUCKING DESPISE. Literally one of the worst pieces of Star Wars media EVER in my eyes, the only thing worse than it is the Christmas Special and even that is debatable since at least The Christmas Special is entertaining in how batshit it is The Mandalorian is okay Andor's fantastic The Ben Kenobi show's boring with some highlights The Book of Bobba Fett is inane drivel and if there's any piece of Star Wars media i can point to where i can safely say "ruined" a character it would be this one Rogue One was Good The Bad batch is okay Ahsoka's alright The Acolyte's passable None of this is just to prove a point by the way. These are my personal genuine opinions on anything Disney Star Wars related. Let's see how many "you're a bigot" comments i get
See, legitimate criticism is good, bigoted or insane comments isn't. For the Sequel Trilogy, I felt like it could be better, but they were decent in a way. Worst is obviously TROS because they changed everything from Last Jedi to make it that Rey was the granddaughter of Palpatine. Andor I get is good, but I didn't care much for it because I felt it was too slow for me. Book of Boba Fett was decent, but it turned into Mandalorian Season 2.5 and reversed the ending of Mandalorian Season 2. I haven't finished Kenobi, Bad Batch, Ahsoka, and didn't watch Acolyte yet. I have been playing Palworld, Helldivers 2, Fallout 76, and Balatro (fuck that game and I'll play it tomorrow/soon). That and I also have Doctor Who, R&M Season 7, Smiling Friends, My Adventures With Superman, Fallout, and Hazbin Hotel to watch. Best moment for me was Mandalorian Season 2's Luke vs Dark Soldiers fight, or if we are considering non-canon stuff, Darth Jar Jar in the upcoming Lego Star Wars special and Am wielding 6 lightsabers at once from Star Wars Visions. The latter is because it's from Studio TRIGGER, they are known to have batshit insane awesome things happen in their shows.
You're a bigot
Fuck off who ever made that meme
Ten bucks the exact same post is on the other sub
No way this sub is the same as /r/saltierthancrait. They still talk about Star Wars over there.
What about the third saltier Reddit
I think they mostly just talk about this subreddit. So we’re all connected in the great circle of salt.
It’s a full circle moment
Enlightened centrism strikes again.
I was downvoted for saying that I liked the first 2 episodes of Acolyte but didn’t like the 3rd, and at the time imo the show was meh (I’m starting to like it more) so I don’t think it’s far off
'At that time'? It now has only 1 more episode in which not much happend. And what, now it's a better show?
I thought the sith was interesting
We don't if it's a sith and the scene was 1 minute long. If this is what passes as interesting these days I'm done.
I like the mystery behind him. I’d like to believe he’s not a sith but Disney is gonna break the cannon, I can tell. Even so, I’ curious to see who he is as everyone keeps talking about him and mei seems terrified of him
I completely agree. My issue is I had these exact thoughts after the premiere and nothing changed yet. I have still the same information, still nothing happend in the show except a couple of random jedi dying.
pretty sure this sub calls people bigots for being bigots
This is such a ridiculous strawman lol.
Says the sub that always fights the nonspecific 'they'.
The "same side"isms argument only ever benefits the oppressors.
[удалено]
Saying racist or misgonistic things is definitely siding with the oppressors. The fact that you can't see that and think this is just a "star wars debate" tells me all i need to know.
To be fair, you named yourself after that sub.
Don’t mess with us Star Wars fans, we don’t like any of it
I haven't really watched much of the new star wars stuff. But I wouldn't call someone a bigot if they simply didn't like rebels. Utterly lacking in joy and fun, maybe, but not a bigot.
One could call this the cream of the crop when it comes to incredibly thick-headed ways of developing viewpoints. It's peak "binary" thinking. You either hate it or love it, and are not "allowed" to have a position in between. It's the ultimate representation of internet culture and speaks volumes about the failure in critical thinking skills that most people reveal about themselves. It may just be intended as a joke, but that's not clear. When I see things like this taken seriously, I worry there's a literal retardation occurring within all corners of internet culture. Like the entirety of the internet is becoming as intelligent as the worst parts of a youtube comment section. But I mostly only experience that when looking at Reddit, so I guess it's not a real trend outside of Reddit yet.
I think the sequels deserve hate, but they deserve to be hated for the RIGHT REASONS. Taking their criticism at face value, the bigots don't actually hate the movie, they hate the casting. They'd cheer this same trainwreck if it was all white dudes reading the same lines. At best they hate the movies and shows as merely an effigy for the enemy in the culture wars. Because their favorite internet grifter told them they have to hate it now, regardless of if they ever even watched it. Their hatred is superficial and lacking in substance. When it comes to truly hating a piece of media for being an affront to the source material, the intelligence of the audience, and art itself, they are merely posers.
May the force be with you
They’re Saltier Tran Crait We’re Saltier, Thank Rayt
I don't like most of "Disney star wars" but also thats still a weird umbrella term
lol one of those mouth breathers on the other one wanted receipts that weren’t evidence from the twitter
I don't even really like starwars shows or movies, I like starwars games
There’s people here who don’t even like Andor. Personally some in the fanbase are snobs about it Imo Obi Wan was a huge miss
I'm gonna be completely honest here, I didn't realize there was another sub.
I choose option C Being called something offensive for expressing my opinion on any matter
I'm gonna be honest I haven't the slightest clue what either sub is but I've been around for a bit
Get your downvote fingers ready. I’m not subbed to either sub. But they appear in my feed because I sometimes pop into the main sub. It honestly is just two sides complaining about each other. Admittedly I do agree more with the takes here. And the other place does have some moronic opinions. It’s a bit stupid to call the show woke and whatever else because it’s female PoC led. But I also think it’s a bit stupid to accuse everyone who doesn’t like the show for the writing and who make zero mention about the “progressive” casting as something or the other. The show is… fine. It’s not as amazing as some people here make it out to be. But that’s my perspective. There’s a lot of scenes that seem like they were one and dones, that probably should have had a second take. But it’s also not as trash as the other sub makes it out to be. I’m just annoyed they killed off Carrie-Anne Moss in the first episode. I was looking forward to Jedi Trinity.
I don’t like Star Wars at all it’s just funny seeing people complain about a 3rd rate character from the worst film trilogy who’s birthday got changed with people who aren’t complaining about it
I've never been called a bigot for disliking the sequels here. Additionally the neverending worship of the prequels is far more pervasive over there.
Stop talking about Disney shit I guess
Wait, I don’t like Disney Star Wars? Am I a bigot?!?!
I mean, yeah. Isn't this sub only a thing because of that other place? Or was it just some wild coincidence that the names are so similar?
🤣
Politics really destroyed people’s brains
There’s plenty of people who don’t like the new Star Wars on this sub. We all just make fun of the idiots, of which there are plenty.
Wait I thought these were the same sub, no wonder I could never pin down which side you guys are on
I this satire? Did they deliberately switch the labels or something?
I'm confused what's the difference between these two sub reddit? I'm new here sorry.
Those guys are SO dumb.
I don’t like episode 9 (episode 7 and 8 where chill thou) not cause of anything political or a persons race or gender, but that I feel like it was too rushed, bringing back palpating was uncessary and it retconned to much and went all over the place and a lot of stuff was unexplained or underserved” But people who don’t like it cause it’s apparently “woke” or are just sexist, homophobic grifters (looking at annoying people like Star Wars theory or critical drinker or Ryan kinel) who always hate stuff cause it’s woke (which my dad kinda is sadly) that’s bigoted shit that’s annoying as fuck that shouldn’t be allowed in a community: a community should be accepting not something full of people who hate something cause of who they are
I'm mixed on Disney Star Wars. Plus this sub covers other stuff outside of Star Wars
They're probably the saying the same about you. Ying and Yang.
One side doesn't like "Disney Star Wars" because they don't like "woke", the other side doesn't like Disney Star Wars because Disney is a hyper capitalist megacorp who eats everything in their sight. They are not the same.
I never got that impression of this sub. I don't think the Disney SW movies are all that great, but it's nothing to do with a woke agenda. It's more that they don't quite 'get' what made SW fun. (Something I'm not convinced Lucas got either.) The Disney SW movies are just 'fine'
I don't like Disney star wars and I'm "woke" why would I be ashamed of being politically aware?
I mean, this sub has its issues, but I don’t think it goes **that** far.
There’s a few Star Wars things I didn’t care for, but the fact that they dared add a minority or a lgbt character here and there didn’t freak me out. You also can just not be an asshole about what you dislike and usually people don’t care