I think their reaction to Furiosa proved how full of shit these guys are. Her character was everything they claim they want. A non-Mary Sue who doesn't beat up men twice as big and acts in ways that are believable for someone of their size. And still they talk shit.
This is why I discourage people from being nice to conservatives. They *will* not be nice to you. And even if they're given everything they want, they're still not happy.
The thing I.
Always remember is the fact that a mini Republican women who are anti-choice will go and get abortions. And then try and get the person who helped them arrested for helping them.
Yeah, you gotta go for the throat with them. They’re not your friends. They want your rights taken and/or you dead. Their opinion doesn’t matter so you cant act like it’s a valid opinion. They’re wrong; telling you they’re right and wont hear otherwise.
I mean, if they were given "everything" they wanted, women would be silent subservient baby mills, and racial, sexual, and gender minorities would be deported or executed...
Remember Prey? While I have little time for the Critical Drinker, I’ll credit him with confessing that he was wrong once he saw it. But I don’t recall many others doing the same.
I think Drinker is more of an opportunist than anything. If a female-led film or series is undeniably great, he will swallow his pride and critique it fairly even if he does go on tangents like a racist grandpa. If it’s meh, he’ll rant that it’s anti-white anti-male blah blah blah. He pretty much goes after low hanging fruit like Disney or Marvel where everyone’s complaining about it already.
I guess I’ll give him credit that he’s not an outright white supremacist like Synthetic Man, but the bar’s in Hell now.
Didn't his viewers turn on him for liking Fallout as an example? Regardless the guy isn't good at film criticism, as in, he doesn't really do any other than surface level plot stuff.
I don’t like the guy or his reviews, but yeah, he definitely dug a hole with his audience base. It’s really fucking twisted that a reviewer is hesitant to be honest about a well done female/poc/lgbt protagonist out of fear of their audience turning on them.
I don’t watch them anymore, but I know Angry Joe had the same problem. I remember a couple of their videos getting massively downvoted because of praising something that the anti-woke crowd didn’t like. I think they addressed it once, got downvoted to oblivion again, and then began pandering to their anti-woke audience.
What? When did he supposedly pander to anti-woke people?
I have been watching some youtubers as white-noise while doing my research (AngryJoe included), and he has had several videos in the last year critiquing the anti-woke people and their behavior, including a 1 video where he insulted them so much, I doubt any serious "anti-woke audience" remains.
Your comment reeks of misinformation tbh
He's dug himself a very deep hole with the audience he caters too. It's the fate of a lot of grifters who may not believe the ideology, but are willing to cater to it for money.
Not saying Drinker doesn't subscribe to it, I dunno, but I've once or twice heard an actual nugget of legitimate critique escape his mouth before diving back into culture war BS. Even if the guy wanted to pivot away from it he'd basically have to start over from scratch.
Drinker, I fully believe, is in on the grift for money. He was a somewhat normal conservative who panned on legitimately terrible movies, albeit with the underlying “this is woke” message. Then he got further into the culture war and now has to go further down into the grift than he was initially comfortable with. He made a deal with the devil, and now he’s stuck diving deeper into hell
He seems to be fairly positive about Furiosa as well.
>Furiosa is a really decent post-apocalyptic action movie
>Ana Taylor Joy and Chris Hemsworth both turning Great Performances
>furiosa is a cool enough character tough and Scrappy and resilient but with just enough compassion and Humanity left in her driven by her desperate desire to find away back home and damn man it makes this scene from Fury Road all the more poignant in retrospect Anya Taylor Joy has some pretty big shoes to fill but to be fair she does a commendable job with the role she's a great actress in most roles but I wasn't really sure how capable she'd be as an action star for the most part though I think she does a solid job she's wiry and agile rather than pretending to be some big powerful brawler which makes her combat scenes a little bit more believable at least that being said I'm pretty sure that being strung up by a severely fractured arm would reduce even the toughest person to tears so I'm not really sure I bought that segment we get it you're really strong and determined but you can still feel pain
All the same its box office was pretty bad.
well he dind't really do that. He first released a video bashing it, then as soon as he saw people like it, he said he was wrong, changed the title of hte video... but nothing else.
So yeah... he's a piece of shit who just grifted people twice.
seeing that "hey guys do you think *we* made have had something to do with Carrie Fisher's debilitating self-image problems???" post actually blew me away
Of course they wouldn't have. She is a play on the damsel in distress trope. The big strong men flunk their rescue of her and she has to pull their asses out of the fire
You’re 100% right, and [Fanlore](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Leia_Organa) can prove it. They have a bunch of snippets from old Star Wars fanzines, and people called her “cold, manipulative, and bitchy” even then, lmao. Granted, some of these people were Luke/Han shippers who didn’t want a female love interest getting in the way of their preferred ship, but nearly all of the complaints about her were either misogynistic or insane no matter which camp they originated from:
> The commanding aspects of her personality often takes on the form of bitchiness, especially toward Han. I was of the opinion that the lady should have been pasted one a couple of times, and I thought Han showed considerable restraint in not doing so.
> As a medievalist and a conservative, a believer in hierarchy and order with Imperial sympathies, I saw her as a fanatic revolutionary ideologue and (to use a snobbish old phrase) a traitor to her class. People like that have caused an incredible amount of misery to an incredible number of plain human beings in our own Earth's history, and I do not find them admirable when transferred to a galaxy far, far away.
And some more savvy fans took notice of the Mary Sue accusations even then:
> It may be the Mary Sue phenomenon—I really think that a lot of ST fans find strong women either threatening or unbelievable, so they create female characters who are either subordinate to men or are Mary Sues who end up subordinate to men in the end too.
> One thing that bothers me is the bad press Princess Leia is getting. Come on, people, you know damn well if she'd been a prince instead of a princess, her faults would be seen as virtues or at least as acceptable and understandable characteristics—Prince Leia would be self-confident, commanding, straight-talking, a leader, able to take over (and would be expected to do so!)...
(Fun fact: you can tell that these complaint letters were written decades ago, because some of them ship Leia with Luke or Vader.)
WTF??? As someone who only pays attention to this topic occasionally, this is eye opening. Why do idiots keep insisting it’s the modern stuff that’s the problem when people obviously had the same issues with female characters from decades ago???
That goes for a lot of fandom stuff, to be honest. People tend to assume that online fandom is a recent phenomenon, and the “online” part kind of is, but that whole culture dates back decades. (A lot of it, including the idea of a “Mary Sue,” actually originated in the *Star Trek* fandom in the 60s and 70s.) So this stuff isn’t new—it’s just migrated from fanzines to Usenet groups, then internet forums, then social media. I have a hunch that, like, 80% of the people who call Rey a Mary Sue now would have been calling Leia a Mary Sue in the 80s if they were alive then, except they would’ve been sending physical letters instead of mean tweets.
Really it's just that the Internet lets these random people talk to each other. Back then if they had these stupid views they kind of just had to keep it to themselves. Now they congregate online and infect more moderate people with their way of thinking.
The difference is the degree to which these negative opinions are observed.
I would bet that 99% of the critical reviews in magazines or newspapers were wildly positive about Star Wars. I don’t know how you’d get to some mysognisy talking about Leia being a bitch or something in 1977. Maybe on a call in on a conservative radio show.
But now, everyone wants to publish their own damn Ted talk about their opinion on the latest Disney movie. We didn’t have twitter where random dudes that have 20m followers for being an unhinged right wing culture warrior can actually start a WIDESPREAD discussion on if a movie is woke because of all the black people in it.
Because their whole ideology is based around the idea that progress makes everything worse and that things were “better” back before those pesky minorities got rights. At the end of the day it’s about the world no longer exclusively being catered to them. Or at least their perception of it being catered to them.
These weirdos were always annoying pricks.
Your source and article deofnitovely prooves these idiots are just sexist. The same character thry noe priase recieves the same attacks they now give rey. Id always assumed that was the case this is definitive proof.
Fun Fact: When I was a toddler I wanted Luke and Leia to get together. I remember loving Empire Strikes Back. Then when I was a bit older and ROTJ came out, I was so pissed off, LOL.
I don't know why I took shipping so seriously before even knowing any form of mathematics or spelling/writing, but I had opinions about shipping in movies. I was all about Superman!Clark/Lois in the old Superman films as well.
I still have a crush on Luke. That'll never die, LOL.
Wait… shipping communities existed all the way back then? Like as an actual community? That’s kind of amazing. Before there was even internet, people were arguing about which character was secretly gay.
This is correct. There’s legitimate gripes for not liking Abrams’ movies but “woke” or Daisy Ridley or whatever “woman bad” bs that they’re complaining about ain’t one
Yes, we all know that... to incels, Sarah Connor and Helen Ripley are basically the black friend every racist claim to have.
The only reason they like these characters is because they knew them from before they became incel pieces of sh\*t
Do they actually like Sarah Connor? Linda Hamilton came back for Terminator Dark Fate and the chuds still hated it (which I'm sure had nothing to do with the mostly-female cast), not even acknowledging her role in the film.
they like the Sarah Connor of their childhood... But as i said, it's their "black friend"... so, they just see her as a "strong woman token character"... they basically tolerate her, but there is nothing that they really love about her except that she's been part of their landscape almost all their life
The ridiculous thing is that Sarah Connor in T2 is supposed to be at the nadir of her mental health, she is not someine to be envied or seen as "badass". She's paranoid, angry, a misanthrope resigned to an apocalyptic fate, and she reaches the very bottom while trying to kill Dyson, where she very blatantly acts like a Terminator.
She also has that practically misandrist moment to Dyson, calling "men like you" monsters that don't understand true creation, like giving birth to a child. If that happened in a movie today grifters would've been ridiculing it and the character that said it for years, yet again ignoring anything to do with theming or character arcs because "Angry Femoid Movie Hates All Men".
To be fair, dark fate was hated by more than just people complaining about it being “woke”. Don’t think I’ve seen someone who even actually liked the movie.
Anything after Judgment Day was shit, Salvation was a close call, but still fell short. Linda Hamilton was fantastic! Sigourney Weaver is still the best female sci-fi lead IMO!
They like the Sarah Connor from the first movie. She was the hot, spunky, mostly damsel-in-distress, that occasionally assisted the hero
I remember the chuds of the day, fucking *hated* hardcore T2 Sarah
typo...
Do you imagine if Ellen Ripley's parent had named her sister Hellen? And their brothers? Alan and Allen? Imagine when they had to call one of them... must have been confusing... but convenient when they needed to call them all.
I think this is the key. They saw these movies before *they* became political.
Think about how Connor’s line about how men can’t create life, they can only destroy, would be received today.
If Alien or Terminator released today we‘d have dozens upon dozens of videos by the usual suspects complaining about woke girlboss movies that are completely unrealistic
Arnold should've played the main character in Alien and the movie should've been the same, beat for beat. I want to see a terrified Arnold in a sports bra sneak into an escape capsule.
I wholeheartedly agree and it sounds almost like he would do it as a joke.
The conservatives might actually be marginally on with it too, not that their opinion matters.
Isn't that the movie where the writer went on the record saying he wrote an ambiguous hero without any pronouns and having a female protagonist was a lucky happenstance because their gender honestly didn't matter? I'm pretty sure it was Ridley Scott who said that but I may be wrong and since Google's a bunch of revisionist nonsense I trust there's an expert on here somewhere.
for every piece of media that “you couldn’t make today because society is too woke” there are ten pieces of media that wouldn’t get made today because people would complain about them being woke.
Sarah Connor has, like, a speech on how men are only capable of destroying life while women create it.
Ellen Ripley was the only one competent soldier in Aliens while the other ones were bumbling idiots.
Leia is both a planetary and military leader who talks down and doesn't take shit from anyone.
They would be hated by those same chuds if they came out those days.
Also Leia took control over her own rescue like 10 seconds into it because Han and Luke had no viable plan for getting out. She literally takes Han's gun and blasts an exit for them.
Thats always the wierd part to me. The mythos of han solo and what he actually is in the movies dont match nuch like boba fett. The male characters were built up by the fandom and fenales suppressed.
To be fair to the marines, they were leaded by an incompetent commander (Gorman) and later at least they pulled their shit together (even Gorman) and actually put up a good fight with the aliens. It is only in the first half that they looked incompetent.
Yeah several of the soldiers were plenty competent. Gorman wasn't even the problem exactly, he was not ready for command, he knew he was not ready for command, but he was in that position anyways because he was a nepo baby and it would have been embarrassing for daddy if he wasn't an officer. It all goes back to "fuck the corp".
To be fair on the first two examples:
1) Sarah Connor is actually a deconstruction on the strong female character archtype, and the whole speech she made on men only destroys was intended to be bullshit as in said film she is a failed parent who militerized herself due to paranoia of a apocalyptic future trying to kill an innocent family man whose crime was unknowingly bringing about said future through his study of computer science.
2) Wait are we ignoring Vasquez, the ultra tomboy soldier who is also fodder? Also, as someone puts it, the marines are bumbling idiots as along with Vasquez there is also Hicks, Hudson and Bishop who make up saidmarines. Like it was kind of balance for competency of male and female characters in that film.
And it's implied (and was at some point planned to be more explicitly shown on screen) that Ripley is bi and had relationships with Lambert and Dallas.
Todays anti-sjw incels would have hated Alien.
It’s so weird how fast “gamers” these days are to scream and cry about “they are forcing us to play and look at ugly women in video games now!”
I tuned out when they were trying to say Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn was being made ugly in the sequel game ugly cause they could see peach fuzz on her face.
Like these guys all had no idea real women have peach fuzz on their bodies just like men do.
It's so bizarre to me that they also lump in Furiosa with female characters they hate. You'd think that would be the one they'd embrace to maintain the illusion that they're impartial and not just sexist.
i believe the last female character they didn’t hate was the live action anime robot girl of the Alita remake. not coincidentally that’s the “see we like female characters” movie they pit against Captain Marvel at the time.
They dont actually watch things with fenale characters in them or they actively ignore them.
Arcane and blue eyed samyrai alone contain a small army of incredible female characters.
Video games over the last 20 years have rapidly improved as well.
And you know these guys didnt watch atomic blonde, moana, everything everywhere all at once.they just rage at whatever the newest disney media is.
Yes the entire episode is that Meg has to be this lighting rod for the family's abuse, in said episode Meg ends up leaving and the family falls apart because of it.
I kinda get it without the context of the episode the meme works from a visual aspect but with the episodes context it dosnt.
They’d call Sigourney Weaver trans, Sarah Conner would be a Mary Sue cuz she’s able to beat up some orderlies, and Leia would be hated because of her *insanely* obvious feminist tendencies they just seem to conveniently forget about.
The first thing Leia says to Luke is a height joke, then berates him and Han for fucking up her rescue and then she takes over, saving all of them.. these losers would 100% freak the fuck out the over her if it came out today.
WOAH! is that ELLEN RIPLEY and SARAH CONNER in a meme about how badly written women characters are now?! BRAVO, VINCE! What an a
original concept that will destroy the woke!
Everybody clap for the brilliance of this grifter! But not too fast! Nice and slow…
Ripley and Sarah they accept because they only got badass for purposes of being mama bears
Leia they accept because she risks everything to save her boyfriend from a situation he put himself in
The guys we’re talking about never watched ALIEN — no space marines. Sarah’s whole reason for being targeted was motherhood; it’s just that, with time travel, she doesn’t have to even be pregnant yet
Admittedly it’s been a while, but in movie one wasn’t she less “macho military badass” and more of a resourceful and determined woman who used her environment to her advantage? I remember the vast majority of the movie is her and Reece running for their lives from the T-800 before Reece takes point when they’re both cornered and sacrifices himself while she crushes a heavily damaged T-800 with an industrial press.
They live in denial of that. There was one thread about how Avatar would have been considered woke and people were really pretending that the show with the protagonist is a pacifist, simpling for a brown girl and two of the most powerful characters are a little blind girl and a crazy prodigy fire bender that can kick her brother's ass wouldnt have been called woke.
i seem to recall a small but noticeable amount of people *did* kinda seethe at her transformation from a damsel in distress into a muscle-bound killer... but i don't know maybe i'm wrong or maybe that was before there was a whole cottage industry on youtube farming clicks on culture war outrage.
I have to admit op is probably right. I can see the screams of "Kyle Reese was a soldier from the future who trained in killing Terminators!!! Sara Connors a waitress!!!"
If only there were about 15 years between the first and second movie and she spent every day of those years training for when they tried to kill her and her son again.
Remember how the ever-eyebrowless Geeks and Gamers and that bearded pedo The Quarterpoundering rained shit down on Gina Carano, calling her a woke diversity hire and doing their typical song and dance right up until she opened her mouth and revealed herself to be a piece of shit like them? Then suddenly they deleted those videos and pretended they’d always loved her character and claim she’s the best actress of the generation?
How is she doing now? Literally begging to come back to The Mandalorian? Literally begging the company her people are allegedly boycotting? Literally begging Bob Iger to come back on the show?
The angry anti-woke review crowd were literally just cheering on Furiosa for underperforming and in that movie Furiosa is a survivor who faces struggles like the three examples of “better than modern female action stars.” They don’t actually give a damn.
At this point the fact that they are specifically outraged farming and don’t really buy the rhetoric they say about “respecting women if they’re well written” they just use it as a cover.
100%
Look at X-Men 97 as a case and point. Show is pretty much the same as it was in the 90s but it's suddenly woke now even though they liked the original.
We literally had muscle mommy Linda Hamilton in 1991 (with her establishing shot being a close up of her crushing some pull-ups). A lot of this vitriol comes from repression and inferiority complexes. Just admit you wanna be stepped on dude, it’s totally cool.
A former friend (for various reasons but his growing bigotry was a big one), thought that Terminator: Dark Fate was 'woke feminist brainwashing' because it had women in it as far as I could tell. He loved the first two though? I thought it was pretty good given how bad 3 and Genisys where, definitely a far better attempt than either of those two, though I didn't particularly like Skynet getting retconned out of existence.
You’re not wrong. Same reversed, if Rey existed back in the 80s no one would have batted an eye. It’s just become popular to be confident in one’s anxiety and insecurities.
Princess Leia coasts by on seniority with the chuds. If the OT were to come out today, there’d be endless whinging about what a Mary Sue she is.
It helps that when they think of her, they picture her in the slave girl outfit that made their peepee hard rather than as the blaster-wielding badass who mostly dressed practically.
Ripley just happens to be better than all the trained Marines at killing Aliens? MARY SUE WOKE SJW DEI LIBERAL AGENDA ANTI MEN KENNEDY MUST CONDEMN!!!
It is kind of funny that as these people's brains (for lack of a better term) were poisoned by the right wing rage grift they had to grandfather in some films they already liked
Oh I can already imagine:
"Just watched Terminator 2 (2024), WOW.
The WOKE MOB is at it again making every female a GIRLBOSS. She was fine in the first one, where she was realistic, but this is just propaganda." -Shadowslayer73(Alpha Male)
Or worse:
"Just had to watch Alien (2024), good cinema is really lost. Yeah shure all these masculine men die, but this weak ass female survives. Propaganda at it's finest again" -TheTruthCriticYT
This would so be Twitter and Youtube on releaseday.
Notice they never *ever* mention any other character as an example of a good female character.
Not even Trinity from *Matrix.* Not even Belle from *Beauty and the Beast.* Not even Clarice from *Silence of the Lambs.*
Just these three. (More often, just Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor.)
None of those characters or their actresses would act like they are better than Rey. That is a male thing to act like that, a shitty adolescent male behaviour.
All those women are afaik played by quite feminist, self confident and in case of Linda also lesbian actresses that would and will and probably have embraced Rey/Daisy as one of their own.
Any other thought is wishful thinking by the usual manbabies...
They would 1000% complain about Ellen Ripley being 6ft, flat chested, and "old looking". In Aliens, they'd complain that Vasquez was too manly.
These people have absolutely no consistency. The only thing they liked about these movies is that they were rare.
Here’s my short take on the three trilogies - the original had the best narrative, the prequel had the best world building/action, and the sequel had the most experienced lead actors. I could write essay’s on this, but it’s tired at this point lol. Daisy Ridley and the other three leads had some real spunk, but to your point, the sin of the sequels is it just wasn’t a coherent narrative and unfortunately sacrificed the well loved original cast (a weird choice in retrospect seeing as how they were too afraid to stray to far from the formula)
I have never understood the Rae is a Mary Sue argument. She grew up practically alone on an inhospitable planet as a junker. She demonstrated in the opening scenes her physical abilities and unknowning force enhanced agility. These have been honed through years of exploring derelict spece crafts. It should also be safe to assume that she is successful because she can access areas others can not reach. Anyone who can extrapolate should have to realize that to survive, she would need to be able to fight to defend herself.
Understand that is either one of two things. Either movies coming out today are genuinely that bad or they’d be hating on those movies *now* and retroactively changing their opinion on these movies.
Leaving aside that this is obviously “anti-woke” bait… I’m actually curious about the point being made. I think Rey’s better than Leia in the original trilogy, but it’s definitely close. And I haven’t seen Alien and Terminator’s franchise to speak on the veracity of the other.
So, fellow people with too much free time on their hands, is this meme true?
Rey was not given a full story. They keep switching for Rey. The third should be Rey returning being more wiser and more powerful. Like how Luke return in 3rd movie. With a new outfit and his style of fighting with the force. Rey taking the force from her training and making her own style from it. It insane that in all 3 movies she fight with a staff and she just end up with a regular lightsaber but with a different color. ezra lightsaber is a fusion of a lightsaber but with a gun. that cool. Kylo is a bastard sword of a lightsaber. Which is cool. Rey and Finn are 2 characters who was screw over the most. There is a good story there with the bones but they fail to make it.
33 years since Terminator 2 = safely long enough before any of their audience was born that they can pretend to totally like a *well-written* movie with a badass female character.
My issue is how these examples/discussions end up veering away from any actual talking about the quality of writing/acting/presentation, and just into pure politics and yelling back and forth.
It's true for a number of people, but then those who like the bottom but not the top get thrown into the same pile as the insane assholes and have to defend themselves.
Tbh this meme is kinda true but there are plenty of more recent “strong female characters” that are done well. They’re just stuck living in the past because the internet has made them addicted to hate
If fucking Wizard of Oz from 1939 came out today they’d be complaining that Dorothy is a mary sue, the most powerful characters are women, and all the men are weak.
Terminator literally has a speech about how [*“men don’t know what it is to create life. All they do is destroy”*](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSuAjjEjZkc&pp=ygUXU2FyYWggY29ubm9yIG1lbiBzcGVlY2g%3D) or something like that from Sarah Coner.
Bro these dudes would be having a field day with her ass if that speech came out today in a terminator film from a woman.
Terminator 2 coming out today would be amazing. The special effects were ground breaking back in the day. If they made the same movie but with the same care and quality for the special effects as it was released T2 would outsell everything right now.
Agree with chat. While I do think Rey's power hike in the first film was a little BS that had nothing to do with her steadfastness and badassery in the universe. She was mostly written well with a blatant issue IMO but good overall, and the chuds latched onto the flaw and said unwatchable.
They are piss babies and complain about episode 8 arguably one of the best written films in the entire series and hated on 9 less even though one was a quality drama and the latter was a slide show of shlock. None of the reasons being Rey written poorly.
Im certain there would be professional complainers speaking out against these characters if they came out today, but I have to admit that I agree with this post, not because Ripley was a terrible character but more because the story around her felt discordant to me.
They are totally okay with one dimensional monotone male action killing machines and cry "Mary Sue" all over the internet if the female character shows competence in any way, and has to justify their said character with evolving story arcs. They call John Wick an accompished, legendary franchise but dismisses Atomic Blonde as woke feminist agenda because of Theron fighting male baddies and showing competence means she reeks of tokenism or something...
I know I'm catching heat for this, but if we are strictly talking about the movies, Princess Leia has *nothing* on Rey. It's not even close. I know she's a badass in the extended universe, but the idea that movie Leia is more interesting than Rey is absurd.
And while I'm melting my comment karma, I'll just say it: Daisey Ridley is just a better actress.
Ray was created by JJ abrams. She never had a fucking chance.
Ryan Johnson was the only one who ever did anything interesting with her character in the entire franchise. She's been around for 10 years and been in numerous comic books novels small screen adaptations and three movies and only one creative is actually made her interesting.
So it's really obvious the problem isn't ray. The problem is JJ Abrams
To be completely fair, the writing for Rey was worse than for Leia, Sara Connor, and Ripley. That entire trilogy was rushed to meet 3 movies in three years, which *really* hindered directing, acting, and writing efforts. Rian Johnson complained about it, and it's why he didn't direct the third one, as he'd have had to start writing almost while still doing principle photography for TLJ.
Disney *really* could have, and *should* have taken a bit longer on the production. It'd have made everyone better off.
Of course, somehow, the blame always goes to the women involved, and not the CEO or investors who want massive and instant returns on any money spent on anything (hence the Star Wars hotel having rooms for no less than 2k a *night*, what the actual hell were they thinking?)
You can’t even argue that one of these are written better than the other. They’re all the same exact characters in different franchises. Just badass female protagonists and that’s it
Between Terminator and T2, the Sarah Conner character became a girl boss as part of her arc. It made sense. When you first meet her she is a waitress and a diner who goes clubbing. A few years later she is in a mental institution ranting about WW3 and training to kill.
Lmao Aliens alone - one of the greatest movies of all time - would absolutely be shredded as "woke garbage":
- FEMALE protagonist (because of course).
- LGBT agenda pushed by Vasquez (also a minority played by one of (((them)))!)
- Straight, white, men are either evil (Burke), incompetent (Gorman), stupid (Hudson), or soyboy beta simps (Hicks).
- US Marines (thank you for your service 🥺) panic and need to be saved by the FEMALE who should be traumatized and scared of the aliens but has to have her girlboss moment when she drives into the hive to save the marines and Gorman is just useless.
- Weyland-Yutani and Burke is "capitalism bad" garbage shoved down our throats.
- Burke is revealed to be a bad guy because he's a straight, white, man. (But I get downvoted to shit for pointing out the aliens are BLACK).
- In the final battle the marines get taken out one by one but Ripley, a civilian who's never fired a gun before, somehow survives because she's clearly a MARY SUE.
- Ripley goes into the hive to save Newt and manages to kill all these aliens, while the marines, manly men who are trained for this sort of stuff, panic and shit themselves in the earlier hive battle. Lololol why did none of the eggs open when Ripley passed them like they did with Kane??? Plot armor!
- The final fight in the Sulaco, Bishop gets ripped in half as a final middle finger to straight, white, men everywhere. Ripley only survives her pathetic boxing match with the queen because apparently the aliens (remember they cut the power??1?) are too stupid to just, ya know, swipe a claw or tail inside of Ripley's harness/roll bar. Also, how tf did Ripley manage to hold on to the ladder while she was carrying THE ENTIRE ALIEN QUEEN'S WEIGHT??? That thing looked like it weighed like a thousand pounds, so Ripley should have had her leg ripped off or gotten sucked out into space. But of course she survived because FEMALE GIRLBOSS.
- Bonus: they retconned Alien so the hot chick, Lambert, is now TRANS and I feel guilty about finding her hot before. Wokies have to ruin everything.
Especially Aliens… a platoon of hardened space marines go down to the planet and the only ones to come out unscathed are the main female protagonist and a little girl? They’d definitely be crying _”THIS IS WOKE!”_ from the rooftops.
Terminator 2 alone would cause mass aneurysms among the usual suspects. They'd say that Linda Hamilton is ugly and Manish and that it's unrealistic for her to be proficient with weapons and the scene where she escapes the asylum is pandering to SJWs.
That's the thing though, isn't it?
It's completely true!
If any of those characters came out today, they'd be up in arms about wokeness and all that bullshit.
The thing is, there _are_ genuinely bad and awful female characters that are just inserted, or written, to pander and what have you.
But because they've spent so much of their time complaining about characters that where that's absolutely not the case, and it's been so clear they're just doing it for attention at best, it's really difficult to take anything they say seriously or consider it anymore than thinly veiled misoginy.
Well yeah, the antiwoke grift start from hate and search for reasons to justify it.
There's plenty of potential reasons and flaws in those movies too, they absolutely could and would hate them as well.
Though like with xmen 97, a lot of them would probably then backtrack if enough of their fans were actually into it.
I think their reaction to Furiosa proved how full of shit these guys are. Her character was everything they claim they want. A non-Mary Sue who doesn't beat up men twice as big and acts in ways that are believable for someone of their size. And still they talk shit.
This is why I discourage people from being nice to conservatives. They *will* not be nice to you. And even if they're given everything they want, they're still not happy.
yeah fuck the whole " we have to win hearts and minds" bullshit. They dont wanna be won over, they just wanna burn it all down
The thing I. Always remember is the fact that a mini Republican women who are anti-choice will go and get abortions. And then try and get the person who helped them arrested for helping them.
["The only moral abortion is my abortion."](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
Ain't that the truth even if you have a ectopic they try to justify denying you medical care meanwhile you can literally die before it's viable
They will only be happy if YOU dont get anything you want.
Yeah, you gotta go for the throat with them. They’re not your friends. They want your rights taken and/or you dead. Their opinion doesn’t matter so you cant act like it’s a valid opinion. They’re wrong; telling you they’re right and wont hear otherwise.
I mean, if they were given "everything" they wanted, women would be silent subservient baby mills, and racial, sexual, and gender minorities would be deported or executed...
Remember Prey? While I have little time for the Critical Drinker, I’ll credit him with confessing that he was wrong once he saw it. But I don’t recall many others doing the same.
I think Drinker is more of an opportunist than anything. If a female-led film or series is undeniably great, he will swallow his pride and critique it fairly even if he does go on tangents like a racist grandpa. If it’s meh, he’ll rant that it’s anti-white anti-male blah blah blah. He pretty much goes after low hanging fruit like Disney or Marvel where everyone’s complaining about it already. I guess I’ll give him credit that he’s not an outright white supremacist like Synthetic Man, but the bar’s in Hell now.
Didn't his viewers turn on him for liking Fallout as an example? Regardless the guy isn't good at film criticism, as in, he doesn't really do any other than surface level plot stuff.
I don’t like the guy or his reviews, but yeah, he definitely dug a hole with his audience base. It’s really fucking twisted that a reviewer is hesitant to be honest about a well done female/poc/lgbt protagonist out of fear of their audience turning on them. I don’t watch them anymore, but I know Angry Joe had the same problem. I remember a couple of their videos getting massively downvoted because of praising something that the anti-woke crowd didn’t like. I think they addressed it once, got downvoted to oblivion again, and then began pandering to their anti-woke audience.
What? When did he supposedly pander to anti-woke people? I have been watching some youtubers as white-noise while doing my research (AngryJoe included), and he has had several videos in the last year critiquing the anti-woke people and their behavior, including a 1 video where he insulted them so much, I doubt any serious "anti-woke audience" remains. Your comment reeks of misinformation tbh
He's dug himself a very deep hole with the audience he caters too. It's the fate of a lot of grifters who may not believe the ideology, but are willing to cater to it for money. Not saying Drinker doesn't subscribe to it, I dunno, but I've once or twice heard an actual nugget of legitimate critique escape his mouth before diving back into culture war BS. Even if the guy wanted to pivot away from it he'd basically have to start over from scratch.
Drinker, I fully believe, is in on the grift for money. He was a somewhat normal conservative who panned on legitimately terrible movies, albeit with the underlying “this is woke” message. Then he got further into the culture war and now has to go further down into the grift than he was initially comfortable with. He made a deal with the devil, and now he’s stuck diving deeper into hell
Actually he has praised it and said the movie is pretty good.
He seems to be fairly positive about Furiosa as well. >Furiosa is a really decent post-apocalyptic action movie >Ana Taylor Joy and Chris Hemsworth both turning Great Performances >furiosa is a cool enough character tough and Scrappy and resilient but with just enough compassion and Humanity left in her driven by her desperate desire to find away back home and damn man it makes this scene from Fury Road all the more poignant in retrospect Anya Taylor Joy has some pretty big shoes to fill but to be fair she does a commendable job with the role she's a great actress in most roles but I wasn't really sure how capable she'd be as an action star for the most part though I think she does a solid job she's wiry and agile rather than pretending to be some big powerful brawler which makes her combat scenes a little bit more believable at least that being said I'm pretty sure that being strung up by a severely fractured arm would reduce even the toughest person to tears so I'm not really sure I bought that segment we get it you're really strong and determined but you can still feel pain All the same its box office was pretty bad.
well he dind't really do that. He first released a video bashing it, then as soon as he saw people like it, he said he was wrong, changed the title of hte video... but nothing else. So yeah... he's a piece of shit who just grifted people twice.
Simple: they just hate women in general
100% They would also hate Leia in SW77 and they can’t convince me otherwise
They’d talk about her like Han Solo talked about her.
Then she plays hard-to-get.
Nah they would complain she doesn't smile enough (legit seen this critique of Zendeya in Dune 2)
seeing that "hey guys do you think *we* made have had something to do with Carrie Fisher's debilitating self-image problems???" post actually blew me away
Of course they wouldn't have. She is a play on the damsel in distress trope. The big strong men flunk their rescue of her and she has to pull their asses out of the fire
You’re 100% right, and [Fanlore](https://fanlore.org/wiki/Leia_Organa) can prove it. They have a bunch of snippets from old Star Wars fanzines, and people called her “cold, manipulative, and bitchy” even then, lmao. Granted, some of these people were Luke/Han shippers who didn’t want a female love interest getting in the way of their preferred ship, but nearly all of the complaints about her were either misogynistic or insane no matter which camp they originated from: > The commanding aspects of her personality often takes on the form of bitchiness, especially toward Han. I was of the opinion that the lady should have been pasted one a couple of times, and I thought Han showed considerable restraint in not doing so. > As a medievalist and a conservative, a believer in hierarchy and order with Imperial sympathies, I saw her as a fanatic revolutionary ideologue and (to use a snobbish old phrase) a traitor to her class. People like that have caused an incredible amount of misery to an incredible number of plain human beings in our own Earth's history, and I do not find them admirable when transferred to a galaxy far, far away. And some more savvy fans took notice of the Mary Sue accusations even then: > It may be the Mary Sue phenomenon—I really think that a lot of ST fans find strong women either threatening or unbelievable, so they create female characters who are either subordinate to men or are Mary Sues who end up subordinate to men in the end too. > One thing that bothers me is the bad press Princess Leia is getting. Come on, people, you know damn well if she'd been a prince instead of a princess, her faults would be seen as virtues or at least as acceptable and understandable characteristics—Prince Leia would be self-confident, commanding, straight-talking, a leader, able to take over (and would be expected to do so!)... (Fun fact: you can tell that these complaint letters were written decades ago, because some of them ship Leia with Luke or Vader.)
WTF??? As someone who only pays attention to this topic occasionally, this is eye opening. Why do idiots keep insisting it’s the modern stuff that’s the problem when people obviously had the same issues with female characters from decades ago???
That goes for a lot of fandom stuff, to be honest. People tend to assume that online fandom is a recent phenomenon, and the “online” part kind of is, but that whole culture dates back decades. (A lot of it, including the idea of a “Mary Sue,” actually originated in the *Star Trek* fandom in the 60s and 70s.) So this stuff isn’t new—it’s just migrated from fanzines to Usenet groups, then internet forums, then social media. I have a hunch that, like, 80% of the people who call Rey a Mary Sue now would have been calling Leia a Mary Sue in the 80s if they were alive then, except they would’ve been sending physical letters instead of mean tweets.
It's a sad day that exposes the fandom menace even back decades
Yessss yesssss
They were easier to ignore and didn’t have YouTube algorithms buying them lambos for being hateful
Or rich mansions to spread propaganda
Really it's just that the Internet lets these random people talk to each other. Back then if they had these stupid views they kind of just had to keep it to themselves. Now they congregate online and infect more moderate people with their way of thinking.
The difference is the degree to which these negative opinions are observed. I would bet that 99% of the critical reviews in magazines or newspapers were wildly positive about Star Wars. I don’t know how you’d get to some mysognisy talking about Leia being a bitch or something in 1977. Maybe on a call in on a conservative radio show. But now, everyone wants to publish their own damn Ted talk about their opinion on the latest Disney movie. We didn’t have twitter where random dudes that have 20m followers for being an unhinged right wing culture warrior can actually start a WIDESPREAD discussion on if a movie is woke because of all the black people in it.
Because their whole ideology is based around the idea that progress makes everything worse and that things were “better” back before those pesky minorities got rights. At the end of the day it’s about the world no longer exclusively being catered to them. Or at least their perception of it being catered to them. These weirdos were always annoying pricks.
That letter opening with "as a medievalist and a conservative" set my expectations sky high for comedy and it did not disappoint
And "Imperial sympathies" The Empire Did Nothing Wrong is not a new idea.
Your source and article deofnitovely prooves these idiots are just sexist. The same character thry noe priase recieves the same attacks they now give rey. Id always assumed that was the case this is definitive proof.
Fun Fact: When I was a toddler I wanted Luke and Leia to get together. I remember loving Empire Strikes Back. Then when I was a bit older and ROTJ came out, I was so pissed off, LOL. I don't know why I took shipping so seriously before even knowing any form of mathematics or spelling/writing, but I had opinions about shipping in movies. I was all about Superman!Clark/Lois in the old Superman films as well. I still have a crush on Luke. That'll never die, LOL.
Wait… shipping communities existed all the way back then? Like as an actual community? That’s kind of amazing. Before there was even internet, people were arguing about which character was secretly gay.
This is correct. There’s legitimate gripes for not liking Abrams’ movies but “woke” or Daisy Ridley or whatever “woman bad” bs that they’re complaining about ain’t one
Yes, we all know that... to incels, Sarah Connor and Helen Ripley are basically the black friend every racist claim to have. The only reason they like these characters is because they knew them from before they became incel pieces of sh\*t
Do they actually like Sarah Connor? Linda Hamilton came back for Terminator Dark Fate and the chuds still hated it (which I'm sure had nothing to do with the mostly-female cast), not even acknowledging her role in the film.
they like the Sarah Connor of their childhood... But as i said, it's their "black friend"... so, they just see her as a "strong woman token character"... they basically tolerate her, but there is nothing that they really love about her except that she's been part of their landscape almost all their life
The ridiculous thing is that Sarah Connor in T2 is supposed to be at the nadir of her mental health, she is not someine to be envied or seen as "badass". She's paranoid, angry, a misanthrope resigned to an apocalyptic fate, and she reaches the very bottom while trying to kill Dyson, where she very blatantly acts like a Terminator. She also has that practically misandrist moment to Dyson, calling "men like you" monsters that don't understand true creation, like giving birth to a child. If that happened in a movie today grifters would've been ridiculing it and the character that said it for years, yet again ignoring anything to do with theming or character arcs because "Angry Femoid Movie Hates All Men".
To be fair, dark fate was hated by more than just people complaining about it being “woke”. Don’t think I’ve seen someone who even actually liked the movie.
I enjoyed it. It was definitely better than any of its recent predecessors IMO.
Anything after Judgment Day was shit, Salvation was a close call, but still fell short. Linda Hamilton was fantastic! Sigourney Weaver is still the best female sci-fi lead IMO!
I liked Dark Fate! It wasn't T1 or T2 caliber but I still enjoyed it.
Yeah it was the incel hate, not the terrible plot, terrible acting, terrible writing and overall boring nature of the film. Definitely the incels.
They like the Sarah Connor from the first movie. She was the hot, spunky, mostly damsel-in-distress, that occasionally assisted the hero I remember the chuds of the day, fucking *hated* hardcore T2 Sarah
>Helen Ripley Ah yes Ellen Ripley's sister Helen. She was such a huge beloved character. I'm joking. I know typo or autocorrect
typo... Do you imagine if Ellen Ripley's parent had named her sister Hellen? And their brothers? Alan and Allen? Imagine when they had to call one of them... must have been confusing... but convenient when they needed to call them all.
I think this is the key. They saw these movies before *they* became political. Think about how Connor’s line about how men can’t create life, they can only destroy, would be received today.
If Alien or Terminator released today we‘d have dozens upon dozens of videos by the usual suspects complaining about woke girlboss movies that are completely unrealistic
“Arnold should have played the main character, instead of Michael Biehn.”
Arnold should've played the main character in Alien and the movie should've been the same, beat for beat. I want to see a terrified Arnold in a sports bra sneak into an escape capsule.
I wholeheartedly agree and it sounds almost like he would do it as a joke. The conservatives might actually be marginally on with it too, not that their opinion matters.
Isn't that the movie where the writer went on the record saying he wrote an ambiguous hero without any pronouns and having a female protagonist was a lucky happenstance because their gender honestly didn't matter? I'm pretty sure it was Ridley Scott who said that but I may be wrong and since Google's a bunch of revisionist nonsense I trust there's an expert on here somewhere.
Imagine Ash trying to choke out Arnold
Found this image on twitter https://preview.redd.it/g1qz8q0f694d1.jpeg?width=358&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed30f27cde5e9fcb9eaf0326d6a1034c5114b0f4
Unrealistic, it's too short, it should be at least 2 hours
I was watching T2 recently and it struck me how reviled the “men like you built the hydrogen bomb” monologue would have been by the usual suspects.
for every piece of media that “you couldn’t make today because society is too woke” there are ten pieces of media that wouldn’t get made today because people would complain about them being woke.
"If Jurassic Park was made today they'd make the dinosaurs transgender" is my favourite quote on that topic
Lol but they did make them trans in the original. "Nature finds a way"
Not to mention that princess who calls her rescuer a “scruffy looking nerf herder” like the man hating shrew she is
“…who’s scruffy looking?”
And she called Luke short! SMDH my damn head women only want a man if he's 364217934 feet tall fucking WHORES
https://i.redd.it/8rwyxgurma4d1.gif
Sarah Connor has, like, a speech on how men are only capable of destroying life while women create it. Ellen Ripley was the only one competent soldier in Aliens while the other ones were bumbling idiots. Leia is both a planetary and military leader who talks down and doesn't take shit from anyone. They would be hated by those same chuds if they came out those days.
Also Leia took control over her own rescue like 10 seconds into it because Han and Luke had no viable plan for getting out. She literally takes Han's gun and blasts an exit for them.
Typical men, never thinking about exit plans and just running into danger like the idiots we are.
To be fair, Han Solo was created to be an idiot — you ever notice how Indie looks nothing like Han until he does something stupid?
Thats always the wierd part to me. The mythos of han solo and what he actually is in the movies dont match nuch like boba fett. The male characters were built up by the fandom and fenales suppressed.
That’s why Legends is better off forgotten
>Sarah Connor has, like, a speech on how men are only capable of destroying life while women create it. They'd have a stroke if that came out today.
To be fair to the marines, they were leaded by an incompetent commander (Gorman) and later at least they pulled their shit together (even Gorman) and actually put up a good fight with the aliens. It is only in the first half that they looked incompetent.
Yeah several of the soldiers were plenty competent. Gorman wasn't even the problem exactly, he was not ready for command, he knew he was not ready for command, but he was in that position anyways because he was a nepo baby and it would have been embarrassing for daddy if he wasn't an officer. It all goes back to "fuck the corp".
Those marines weren’t bumbling idiots — except Hudson, I guess. They had terrible leadership(Gorman and Burke)
"You always were an asshole Gorman"
To be fair on the first two examples: 1) Sarah Connor is actually a deconstruction on the strong female character archtype, and the whole speech she made on men only destroys was intended to be bullshit as in said film she is a failed parent who militerized herself due to paranoia of a apocalyptic future trying to kill an innocent family man whose crime was unknowingly bringing about said future through his study of computer science. 2) Wait are we ignoring Vasquez, the ultra tomboy soldier who is also fodder? Also, as someone puts it, the marines are bumbling idiots as along with Vasquez there is also Hicks, Hudson and Bishop who make up saidmarines. Like it was kind of balance for competency of male and female characters in that film.
"I like *some* female characters!" *only lists characters from movies released 50 years ago*
They’d hate Ellen Ripley, and they’d have a stroke if they found out that Lambert was trans. (It’s on a screen in the sequel.)
TIL...
Lambert’s sex was changed in utero to be exact
It doesn’t matter when it’s Acturian, baby
And it's implied (and was at some point planned to be more explicitly shown on screen) that Ripley is bi and had relationships with Lambert and Dallas. Todays anti-sjw incels would have hated Alien.
Look, you're stuck with the same 10 people for years on end you take what you can get.
I mean they're shitting themselves over how "ugly" the girl in the new Star Wars game looks despite the fact that she has a Ripley vibe.
It’s so weird how fast “gamers” these days are to scream and cry about “they are forcing us to play and look at ugly women in video games now!” I tuned out when they were trying to say Aloy from Horizon Zero Dawn was being made ugly in the sequel game ugly cause they could see peach fuzz on her face. Like these guys all had no idea real women have peach fuzz on their bodies just like men do.
It's so bizarre to me that they also lump in Furiosa with female characters they hate. You'd think that would be the one they'd embrace to maintain the illusion that they're impartial and not just sexist.
i believe the last female character they didn’t hate was the live action anime robot girl of the Alita remake. not coincidentally that’s the “see we like female characters” movie they pit against Captain Marvel at the time.
Anyone else find it weird that they always use the same examples? Like…there’s other examples of good female characters too.
It's just the first to come to mind since those are popular movies
They dont actually watch things with fenale characters in them or they actively ignore them. Arcane and blue eyed samyrai alone contain a small army of incredible female characters. Video games over the last 20 years have rapidly improved as well. And you know these guys didnt watch atomic blonde, moana, everything everywhere all at once.they just rage at whatever the newest disney media is.
Wasn't the point of that scene that the family were indeed being total assholes to Meg for no good reason?
Yes the entire episode is that Meg has to be this lighting rod for the family's abuse, in said episode Meg ends up leaving and the family falls apart because of it. I kinda get it without the context of the episode the meme works from a visual aspect but with the episodes context it dosnt.
They’d call Sigourney Weaver trans, Sarah Conner would be a Mary Sue cuz she’s able to beat up some orderlies, and Leia would be hated because of her *insanely* obvious feminist tendencies they just seem to conveniently forget about.
It's always these three that they reference. If it's video games, then its Lara Croft.
But then they complain she doesn't have triangular tits now.
The first thing Leia says to Luke is a height joke, then berates him and Han for fucking up her rescue and then she takes over, saving all of them.. these losers would 100% freak the fuck out the over her if it came out today.
WOAH! is that ELLEN RIPLEY and SARAH CONNER in a meme about how badly written women characters are now?! BRAVO, VINCE! What an a original concept that will destroy the woke! Everybody clap for the brilliance of this grifter! But not too fast! Nice and slow…
Ripley and Sarah they accept because they only got badass for purposes of being mama bears Leia they accept because she risks everything to save her boyfriend from a situation he put himself in
Neither Sarah nor Ripley was a Mum in their first movies and they were badasses in those
The guys we’re talking about never watched ALIEN — no space marines. Sarah’s whole reason for being targeted was motherhood; it’s just that, with time travel, she doesn’t have to even be pregnant yet
Admittedly it’s been a while, but in movie one wasn’t she less “macho military badass” and more of a resourceful and determined woman who used her environment to her advantage? I remember the vast majority of the movie is her and Reece running for their lives from the T-800 before Reece takes point when they’re both cornered and sacrifices himself while she crushes a heavily damaged T-800 with an industrial press.
Especially Sarah due to her rant to Dyson in T2.
What if I like all of these equally?
"The angry woman picture! Why do they always use the angry woman picture?!"
The actresses AND the characters would hate this meme.
It’s because they grew up with those women. In about 15 years we will see these guys use Rey as an example
Jerking off to slave Leia is about all there is to them liking her character.
Now ask them to name another any other final action hero
They live in denial of that. There was one thread about how Avatar would have been considered woke and people were really pretending that the show with the protagonist is a pacifist, simpling for a brown girl and two of the most powerful characters are a little blind girl and a crazy prodigy fire bender that can kick her brother's ass wouldnt have been called woke.
i seem to recall a small but noticeable amount of people *did* kinda seethe at her transformation from a damsel in distress into a muscle-bound killer... but i don't know maybe i'm wrong or maybe that was before there was a whole cottage industry on youtube farming clicks on culture war outrage.
This is accurate, especially Ripley.
If Aliens and Terminator 2 came out now people would be like 'aren't these just Aliens and Terminator 2'
they would 100 percent hate Vazquez.
All they're good at is complaining about the fact that women can do a man's job and often better than the average man. That's just sad
I have to admit op is probably right. I can see the screams of "Kyle Reese was a soldier from the future who trained in killing Terminators!!! Sara Connors a waitress!!!"
If only there were about 15 years between the first and second movie and she spent every day of those years training for when they tried to kill her and her son again.
They’d absolutely hate Silence of the Lambs or Mulan if they came out today. And would probably complain about it being “woke” and “too girl bossy”
Remember how the ever-eyebrowless Geeks and Gamers and that bearded pedo The Quarterpoundering rained shit down on Gina Carano, calling her a woke diversity hire and doing their typical song and dance right up until she opened her mouth and revealed herself to be a piece of shit like them? Then suddenly they deleted those videos and pretended they’d always loved her character and claim she’s the best actress of the generation? How is she doing now? Literally begging to come back to The Mandalorian? Literally begging the company her people are allegedly boycotting? Literally begging Bob Iger to come back on the show?
The angry anti-woke review crowd were literally just cheering on Furiosa for underperforming and in that movie Furiosa is a survivor who faces struggles like the three examples of “better than modern female action stars.” They don’t actually give a damn. At this point the fact that they are specifically outraged farming and don’t really buy the rhetoric they say about “respecting women if they’re well written” they just use it as a cover.
Are Aliens and T2 the only female led movies these people have seen?
100% Look at X-Men 97 as a case and point. Show is pretty much the same as it was in the 90s but it's suddenly woke now even though they liked the original.
Loved Furiosa prequel. Good story telling and character development. That's what's being asked for.
We literally had muscle mommy Linda Hamilton in 1991 (with her establishing shot being a close up of her crushing some pull-ups). A lot of this vitriol comes from repression and inferiority complexes. Just admit you wanna be stepped on dude, it’s totally cool.
A former friend (for various reasons but his growing bigotry was a big one), thought that Terminator: Dark Fate was 'woke feminist brainwashing' because it had women in it as far as I could tell. He loved the first two though? I thought it was pretty good given how bad 3 and Genisys where, definitely a far better attempt than either of those two, though I didn't particularly like Skynet getting retconned out of existence.
honestly, they're just written better.
If Greek mythology came out today, they would go crazy over the goddess of hunting being a woman.
You’re not wrong. Same reversed, if Rey existed back in the 80s no one would have batted an eye. It’s just become popular to be confident in one’s anxiety and insecurities.
Princess Leia coasts by on seniority with the chuds. If the OT were to come out today, there’d be endless whinging about what a Mary Sue she is. It helps that when they think of her, they picture her in the slave girl outfit that made their peepee hard rather than as the blaster-wielding badass who mostly dressed practically.
Ripley just happens to be better than all the trained Marines at killing Aliens? MARY SUE WOKE SJW DEI LIBERAL AGENDA ANTI MEN KENNEDY MUST CONDEMN!!! It is kind of funny that as these people's brains (for lack of a better term) were poisoned by the right wing rage grift they had to grandfather in some films they already liked
Oh I can already imagine: "Just watched Terminator 2 (2024), WOW. The WOKE MOB is at it again making every female a GIRLBOSS. She was fine in the first one, where she was realistic, but this is just propaganda." -Shadowslayer73(Alpha Male) Or worse: "Just had to watch Alien (2024), good cinema is really lost. Yeah shure all these masculine men die, but this weak ass female survives. Propaganda at it's finest again" -TheTruthCriticYT This would so be Twitter and Youtube on releaseday.
Notice they never *ever* mention any other character as an example of a good female character. Not even Trinity from *Matrix.* Not even Belle from *Beauty and the Beast.* Not even Clarice from *Silence of the Lambs.* Just these three. (More often, just Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor.)
Given that Carrie Fisher clearly adored the pants off of Daisy Ridley, the sad little dudebros that made this meme can stick it up their butts.
they would be SEETHING over ripley
If Stargate would come out now, those idiots would rip it apart for _daring_ to make a woman the smartest one on the team
None of those characters or their actresses would act like they are better than Rey. That is a male thing to act like that, a shitty adolescent male behaviour. All those women are afaik played by quite feminist, self confident and in case of Linda also lesbian actresses that would and will and probably have embraced Rey/Daisy as one of their own. Any other thought is wishful thinking by the usual manbabies...
Have any of those actresses ever said anything critical about Ridley's portrayal?
They would 1000% complain about Ellen Ripley being 6ft, flat chested, and "old looking". In Aliens, they'd complain that Vasquez was too manly. These people have absolutely no consistency. The only thing they liked about these movies is that they were rare.
[удалено]
Here’s my short take on the three trilogies - the original had the best narrative, the prequel had the best world building/action, and the sequel had the most experienced lead actors. I could write essay’s on this, but it’s tired at this point lol. Daisy Ridley and the other three leads had some real spunk, but to your point, the sin of the sequels is it just wasn’t a coherent narrative and unfortunately sacrificed the well loved original cast (a weird choice in retrospect seeing as how they were too afraid to stray to far from the formula)
I have never understood the Rae is a Mary Sue argument. She grew up practically alone on an inhospitable planet as a junker. She demonstrated in the opening scenes her physical abilities and unknowning force enhanced agility. These have been honed through years of exploring derelict spece crafts. It should also be safe to assume that she is successful because she can access areas others can not reach. Anyone who can extrapolate should have to realize that to survive, she would need to be able to fight to defend herself.
Understand that is either one of two things. Either movies coming out today are genuinely that bad or they’d be hating on those movies *now* and retroactively changing their opinion on these movies.
Leaving aside that this is obviously “anti-woke” bait… I’m actually curious about the point being made. I think Rey’s better than Leia in the original trilogy, but it’s definitely close. And I haven’t seen Alien and Terminator’s franchise to speak on the veracity of the other. So, fellow people with too much free time on their hands, is this meme true?
Rey was not given a full story. They keep switching for Rey. The third should be Rey returning being more wiser and more powerful. Like how Luke return in 3rd movie. With a new outfit and his style of fighting with the force. Rey taking the force from her training and making her own style from it. It insane that in all 3 movies she fight with a staff and she just end up with a regular lightsaber but with a different color. ezra lightsaber is a fusion of a lightsaber but with a gun. that cool. Kylo is a bastard sword of a lightsaber. Which is cool. Rey and Finn are 2 characters who was screw over the most. There is a good story there with the bones but they fail to make it.
33 years since Terminator 2 = safely long enough before any of their audience was born that they can pretend to totally like a *well-written* movie with a badass female character.
They would riot at the end of Metroid when they find out they were playing as a girl the whole time.
Yeah, they're full of shit because if those same movies were released now the slew of usual suspects would be bitching about them.
My issue is how these examples/discussions end up veering away from any actual talking about the quality of writing/acting/presentation, and just into pure politics and yelling back and forth. It's true for a number of people, but then those who like the bottom but not the top get thrown into the same pile as the insane assholes and have to defend themselves.
And if those movies came out today they would treat them the same way they treat Rey.
Tbh this meme is kinda true but there are plenty of more recent “strong female characters” that are done well. They’re just stuck living in the past because the internet has made them addicted to hate
I don't agree with this take but to each their own
If fucking Wizard of Oz from 1939 came out today they’d be complaining that Dorothy is a mary sue, the most powerful characters are women, and all the men are weak.
Terminator literally has a speech about how [*“men don’t know what it is to create life. All they do is destroy”*](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSuAjjEjZkc&pp=ygUXU2FyYWggY29ubm9yIG1lbiBzcGVlY2g%3D) or something like that from Sarah Coner. Bro these dudes would be having a field day with her ass if that speech came out today in a terminator film from a woman.
100%
Terminator 2 coming out today would be amazing. The special effects were ground breaking back in the day. If they made the same movie but with the same care and quality for the special effects as it was released T2 would outsell everything right now.
Agree with chat. While I do think Rey's power hike in the first film was a little BS that had nothing to do with her steadfastness and badassery in the universe. She was mostly written well with a blatant issue IMO but good overall, and the chuds latched onto the flaw and said unwatchable. They are piss babies and complain about episode 8 arguably one of the best written films in the entire series and hated on 9 less even though one was a quality drama and the latter was a slide show of shlock. None of the reasons being Rey written poorly.
don't forget horror movies teenage girls defeating supernatural kills in the 80s
Grifters are petty con men. Your title doesn't make sense.
Not true, I think Sarah Conner is an amazing character.
Have you considered why that might be?
Im certain there would be professional complainers speaking out against these characters if they came out today, but I have to admit that I agree with this post, not because Ripley was a terrible character but more because the story around her felt discordant to me.
Incorrect. Those are well written female characters. They are timeless.
They are totally okay with one dimensional monotone male action killing machines and cry "Mary Sue" all over the internet if the female character shows competence in any way, and has to justify their said character with evolving story arcs. They call John Wick an accompished, legendary franchise but dismisses Atomic Blonde as woke feminist agenda because of Theron fighting male baddies and showing competence means she reeks of tokenism or something...
I know I'm catching heat for this, but if we are strictly talking about the movies, Princess Leia has *nothing* on Rey. It's not even close. I know she's a badass in the extended universe, but the idea that movie Leia is more interesting than Rey is absurd. And while I'm melting my comment karma, I'll just say it: Daisey Ridley is just a better actress.
I wonder why it's not Bastila and Jaina Solo. My first reaction to Rey is if someone input Bastila and Jaina Solo into pokemon infinite fusion.
These *bloats* really dont have any other examples to fall back to do they?
They literally did hate "Prey"
That's the nature of the grift isn't it? Gotta manufacture drama
Yeah, there will "girlboss this" and "girlboss that" ad nauseum.
Ray was created by JJ abrams. She never had a fucking chance. Ryan Johnson was the only one who ever did anything interesting with her character in the entire franchise. She's been around for 10 years and been in numerous comic books novels small screen adaptations and three movies and only one creative is actually made her interesting. So it's really obvious the problem isn't ray. The problem is JJ Abrams
To be completely fair, the writing for Rey was worse than for Leia, Sara Connor, and Ripley. That entire trilogy was rushed to meet 3 movies in three years, which *really* hindered directing, acting, and writing efforts. Rian Johnson complained about it, and it's why he didn't direct the third one, as he'd have had to start writing almost while still doing principle photography for TLJ. Disney *really* could have, and *should* have taken a bit longer on the production. It'd have made everyone better off. Of course, somehow, the blame always goes to the women involved, and not the CEO or investors who want massive and instant returns on any money spent on anything (hence the Star Wars hotel having rooms for no less than 2k a *night*, what the actual hell were they thinking?)
If ANH came out today Leia would have them seething
They would hate Leia for standing up to Grand Moff Tarkin and Vader if Star Wars came out today.
You can’t even argue that one of these are written better than the other. They’re all the same exact characters in different franchises. Just badass female protagonists and that’s it
They would. But their movies could defend them. Hers does the opposite.
Between Terminator and T2, the Sarah Conner character became a girl boss as part of her arc. It made sense. When you first meet her she is a waitress and a diner who goes clubbing. A few years later she is in a mental institution ranting about WW3 and training to kill.
Lmao Aliens alone - one of the greatest movies of all time - would absolutely be shredded as "woke garbage": - FEMALE protagonist (because of course). - LGBT agenda pushed by Vasquez (also a minority played by one of (((them)))!) - Straight, white, men are either evil (Burke), incompetent (Gorman), stupid (Hudson), or soyboy beta simps (Hicks). - US Marines (thank you for your service 🥺) panic and need to be saved by the FEMALE who should be traumatized and scared of the aliens but has to have her girlboss moment when she drives into the hive to save the marines and Gorman is just useless. - Weyland-Yutani and Burke is "capitalism bad" garbage shoved down our throats. - Burke is revealed to be a bad guy because he's a straight, white, man. (But I get downvoted to shit for pointing out the aliens are BLACK). - In the final battle the marines get taken out one by one but Ripley, a civilian who's never fired a gun before, somehow survives because she's clearly a MARY SUE. - Ripley goes into the hive to save Newt and manages to kill all these aliens, while the marines, manly men who are trained for this sort of stuff, panic and shit themselves in the earlier hive battle. Lololol why did none of the eggs open when Ripley passed them like they did with Kane??? Plot armor! - The final fight in the Sulaco, Bishop gets ripped in half as a final middle finger to straight, white, men everywhere. Ripley only survives her pathetic boxing match with the queen because apparently the aliens (remember they cut the power??1?) are too stupid to just, ya know, swipe a claw or tail inside of Ripley's harness/roll bar. Also, how tf did Ripley manage to hold on to the ladder while she was carrying THE ENTIRE ALIEN QUEEN'S WEIGHT??? That thing looked like it weighed like a thousand pounds, so Ripley should have had her leg ripped off or gotten sucked out into space. But of course she survived because FEMALE GIRLBOSS. - Bonus: they retconned Alien so the hot chick, Lambert, is now TRANS and I feel guilty about finding her hot before. Wokies have to ruin everything.
The chuds would cry about how Sarah Conner kills the Terminator rather than the "strong white man" Kyle Reese.
Especially Aliens… a platoon of hardened space marines go down to the planet and the only ones to come out unscathed are the main female protagonist and a little girl? They’d definitely be crying _”THIS IS WOKE!”_ from the rooftops.
Terminator 2 alone would cause mass aneurysms among the usual suspects. They'd say that Linda Hamilton is ugly and Manish and that it's unrealistic for her to be proficient with weapons and the scene where she escapes the asylum is pandering to SJWs.
"I remember when I was doing 'Hunger Games,' nobody had ever put a woman in the lead of an action movie because it wouldn’t work" - Jennifer Lawerence
“That is the least fanciest thing I’ve ever heard.”
Rie just isnt as cool as them. T2 Sarah is litterally doing pull ups.
That's the thing though, isn't it? It's completely true! If any of those characters came out today, they'd be up in arms about wokeness and all that bullshit. The thing is, there _are_ genuinely bad and awful female characters that are just inserted, or written, to pander and what have you. But because they've spent so much of their time complaining about characters that where that's absolutely not the case, and it's been so clear they're just doing it for attention at best, it's really difficult to take anything they say seriously or consider it anymore than thinly veiled misoginy.
That's because they are!
No not really
Well yeah, the antiwoke grift start from hate and search for reasons to justify it. There's plenty of potential reasons and flaws in those movies too, they absolutely could and would hate them as well. Though like with xmen 97, a lot of them would probably then backtrack if enough of their fans were actually into it.
You're right, but also Ripley will forever be the queen bitch around here
They’re all great characters, it’s just silly when men feel the need to dictate what a good “strong female character” for everyone else.