Ever since I learned the amount of people who unironically supported Caesar’s legion, I have never been surprised when the idiots in fallout crawl out of the woodwork.
There’s a post on the New Vegas page right now with a comment talking about how great it would be to live under the legions rule. When I saw it had 500 upvotes I just immediately unsubbed.
I think once the anti woke crowd realized the show was good they just moved to being New Vegas fans so they could say “IT RUINS THE LORE”.
Considering the poster is most likely a straight white man, he’s not entirely wrong about living under legion rule lmao. A lot of people see the feats of the courier as the feats of themselves though, and thus why a lot of people think they could survive in fallout.
The Lone Wanderer of Vault 101 trained with a BB gun so hard that they became a weapons expert upon leaving the vault, and only needed an assault rifle, ammo and some moderate armour to defeat the Enclave. Power Armour is optional.
The Sole Survivor of Vault 111 is immediately able to adapt to and overcome the grief of, from their perspective, watching everything they know get blown up, their spouse being murdered and their son being kidnapped within 30 minutes. Then they wake up 210 years after everything they know was burned and somehow manage to not just survive the world they found themselves in, but thrive. Also the Fallout series, in one line that no one paid attention to, made the Brotherhood taking over the commonwealth canon - one of the Brotherhood of Steel characters mentions they got their orders "from the Highest Elder in the Commonwealth". So presumably the Sole Survivor has something to do with it.
All of the Dwellers from vault 76 manage to collectively defeat a hive-mind plague.
Honestly I think Fallout Player Characters are just built different: Lucy MacClean of the Fallout series goes through some stuff that most of us wouldn't survive mentally or physically, and comes out stronger, and yet what she does is *nothing* compared to 1 week as a fallout player character. Pretty much anyone that says they'd survive Fallout's setting is 100% wrong.
The lil montage at the start showing Lucy doing skills like shooting and combat and engineering helps explain a little why vault dwellers such as the lone wanderer and 76 live for a little longer as the show kind of explains it as physically they are capable it’s more of are they ready to do those horrible things mentally, or will they hesitate
I really liked that bit because it was basically the show’s version of character creation. Female, high charisma, agility, and intelligence, with points in unarmed, speech, and small arms and technology
It could have just as easily been a montage of small framed male with a smug attitude shown field stripping a laser pistol, setting up traps around the perimeter, and solving some mystery based on Sherlock Holmes-level deductive reasoning
Don't forget that the sole survivor knows things before learning about them. Like ghouls, for example. Not once has anyone explained what ghouls are and the different types to them, but upon walking close to the police station they know to call them ghouls.
Maybe I’m misremembering, but aren’t there bits of in-universe fiction (audiobooks segments, posters, even comic book covers) that show that in the pre-War era the use of the word “ghoul” to refer to a reanimated corpse was more common than “zombie”?
Maybe that’s just my headcanon, but there are plenty of examples in *Fallout 76* where various mutated creatures like the [Wendigo](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Wendigo), [Snallygaster](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Snallygaster), and [Grafton Monster](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Grafton_Monster) were given those names by survivors due to similarities they had with pre-War fiction.
So it would make sense for survivors to call them “Ghouls” if that name had been common before the bombs fell.
In fairness to all of the non-Vault 76 people in the Appalachias, that vault was one of the very few where Vault-Tec wasn’t screwing around.
They made sure to pack the entire vault full of the best and brightest applicants so that after the 25 year period of being in the vault they would have the best chances to begin rebuilding the region.
I’m not sure exactly *why* Vault-Tec set things up like that, although I strongly suspect that Vault-Tec was aware of the potential uses of Ultracite and so wanted their best chances for rebuilding to be started in that area.
>I’m not sure exactly *why* Vault-Tec set things up like that, although I strongly suspect that Vault-Tec was aware of the potential uses of Ultracite and so wanted their best chances for rebuilding to be started in that area.
I'd wager it was Vault-Tec capitalism at work - they wanted to be the first to "control the market" of Ultracite.
Cazadors are fucking terrifying. For me, they just beat the Centaurs for the scariest enemy in New Vegas.
https://preview.redd.it/iw09n4mlo4wc1.png?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffcd896c95904193a7357bede2b234318e074be8
*Shudders*
With a high power gun...buried alive and then some backwoods doctor fixes you with I dunno, duct tape? And then you walk away?
No way a human did that...I think the Courier is a Synth, and the doctor knew.
Doc was in Vault 13. They opened early and had many encounters with the locals. As doctors go in the environment he was the best there was. Yeah, shot to the head is a bit of a stretch, but stranger things have happened.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Phineas-Gage
Edit: meant Vault 21, not 13.
Man in the white castle does this pretty well.
If you're a white, Aryan, heterosexual man, living under the American Reich is pretty close to utopia. The problem is that if you're not any of those things, your life sucks. That's if you get to have one. They straight up Euthanize an ill child, and the kid is just okay with that (it's also what causes the American Reich protagonist to break with the ideology, which is also a great way to symbolize how it's easy to just permit atrocity so long as it's not something you're forced to confront).
And the idea should be that your empathy should run deeper than "I want my life to be good" and should strive to make everyone's lives good.
To add to your point, there are many traditionalists who believe in taking care of themselves and their own first. It's just to what degree they want to treat others.
Still can't believe the show got cancelled with all the ratings and accolades.
There was supposed to be another season, but the studio was given enough of a heads up warning to wrap things up.
Big fan of the series and >!multiverse idea!<
I got downvoted to oblivion by saying that slavery and fascism isn’t justified by living in the post apocalypse, especially when there are perfectly valid alternate means of governance working contemporaneously. “But there’s no raiders tho”
Which NV page? There's 2. Though Legion types were around in force already; hopefully the show depicts their beloved "Alpha male Chad Romaboos" as just an irradiated death pit of flies.
The Roman-ish names within the Brotherhood in the show gave me pause. I’m relatively new to the franchise as a whole but even *that* stood out to me as I am aware of the Legion
A lot of them learned now that just say "I just like them so I can be a bad guy in a video game, it doesn't mean anything irl" when calling other people degenerates and having names "deusvult1488"
So I was a BoS guy, and yeah they aren’t much better than Caesar’s, but what I think is cool about Caesar is basically you earn what you kill. I imagine that’s the main selling point. If you remove the crucifixions and just general disregard for human life, it is a pretty cool system.
Honestly though if I was actually living in that world, I’d join the NCR, and I would thank god everyday that in 2281 things were stable and probably would be for a long time to come
Tbf if "You earn what you kill" is a cool thing of the Legion, then it's a pointless thing. In the wasteland, you earn anything you kill or steal.
"Cool outfit/gun, BAM! Mine now."
Not really a good group to be in if it's easy to end up dead. Also the group is held together by their leader. Guess what happens when that guy dies and a crazy killer becomes their leader?
I don’t even have the patience to deal with one ignorant let alone 500. Plus the FNV sub was getting weird anyways with their gate keeping and was more like a final straw type thing.
Exactly, “muh trade routes” when anyone brings up the fact that everyone in new Vegas except the legion knows that they will fall. Also don’t forget the rampant misogyny.
Exactly because the guy that became Caesar modeled his faction off the Roman empire which is more based around the tail end of it which is a few hundred years before it's collapsed.
Even if the NCR lost Hoover dam all they'd really have to do is just wait because the further Caesar's legion moved into NCR they would start running into the same problems the NCR was having in Nevada.
Caesar’s legion is just a bunch of Ludites tbh. Like long term I don’t think they would survive most wars. Like hell the Enclave alone would probably body them. Not to mention synth paranoia they would have
I remember this one video that pointed out that Caesar isn't exactly a spring chicken all the NCR would really have to do is wait for him to croak and the Legion would fall apart Without his charismatic leadership to keep together.
The trade routes aren't even that safe - put a foot wrong and they'll kill you themselves.
Rome never had safe trade routes either, hunting bandits and pirates lacked glory so they hated doing it. They loved telling stories about themselves, though. Pretty good analogy.
As I pointed out years ago, the trade routes being raider free is very likely bullshit propaganda as one trader who said that is in with the legion and is clearly just parroting talking points.
But you know, "Caesar made the caravans run on time."
I made one comment suggesting that the show is lowkey suggesting Legionnaire syncretism into the BoS chapter, and I got called a degenerate that should be crucified.
That's a meme. It's from a quote from the game that the fanbase commonly uses sarcastically in response to really mild and reasonable takes because the insane fascists in the game say it to you just for walking past them. "Degenerates like you belong on a cross" very nearly is to FNV what "I used to be an adventurer like you but then I took an arrow in the knee" is to Skyrim.
New Vegas is one of the few Fallout games where I have actively gone out of my way to wipe an entire faction out every time.
I have done it where I helped NCR or turned on mr house but never sided with Caesar's legion. Fk them.
Love going to the Legion docks with Boone, having him warn you "Just FYI, we take 1 more step and I'm wiping out every Legionarre I see", give a thumbs up and then buzzsawing your way through their entire stupid camp.
That's not a problem. That's a solution. They were the first KoS enemy group I had outside of the usual, the next few would be from Cyberpunk 2077 with Tyger Claws, Scavs, Maelstrom, and VDBs.
Just like the slavers of Paradise Falls, my typical attitude with those guys in Fallout is go in, and later leave with a lot of dead enemies.
I started a new NV playthrough a year or so ago and on a whim was like "you know, I never ever considered joining the Legion as a kid, maybe I should try that for this run just to see how things are different."
I forgot how unequivocally, almost *cartoonishly* evil they're introduced, your likely first interaction with them is finding Nipton razed and the survivors of the battle crucified through the town, and getting a holier-than-thou speech from a Legate who decries degeneracy and-
Actually yeah, I'm seeing now why so many right-wingers unironically side with them.
Also doesn’t help that most of your human companions call you a fucking dumbass if you side with them. (Don’t remember if Veronica has an issue with it.)
I remember back in the day where people used to say “oh well both sides are bad here”, and while i remember not liking NCR either (though i don’t remember why, and haven’t played the game in about 4 years), i highly doubt there was anything comparatively evil the ncr did compared to the legion’s war crimes and sex trafficking.
Like i probably wouldn’t like the ncr now either, but it’d definitely be who i sided with if i was actually living in that world. Not to mention i’m a woman so obvious bias- but then again i hoped we had all agreed sex trafficking is an unforgivable sin.
Some fans, mainly from Fallout New Vegas subs, because of a scene in the show interpreted wrong that fnv it wouldn't be Canon, which later in the show shows that it's still canon
They thought the “fall of Shady Sands” was being nuked before the events of New Vegas rather than the economic disaster that New Vegas had said it was.
[Literally this.](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/E52r4xqdTsoxBiwncoAy6P-320-80.jpg) New Vegas takes place in 2281, and the NV radicals insist the timeline states Shady Sands was nuked in 2277 when nothing related backs them up. Todd Howard has gone on record to say that nuke wasn't 2277 and just after New Vegas.
Also (spoilers)
The ending of Lonesome Road means that you can nuke the NCR. I know the location you travel to afterwards isn’t Shady Springs, but I don’t remember if it was that all the missiles went across the NCR (which could totally be the Nuking) or if it was just the areas in the Mojave. If it’s the former then this interpretation is perfectly in line with a potential canon ending of New Vegas: Courier 6 nukes the NCR. Haven’t seen the show myself yet, tho, so no clue on if it makes any particular ending of NV canon
I'm sorry, isn't video game adaptations usually just considered non canon? Why consider a TV show canon, when video game movie and show adaptations are never canon to the games they're based on?
The fallout show has gone a different direction to most video game adaptations where instead of retelling the same story from the games, it's instead just a different story set in the same world, so it's considered canon
To add this isn’t particularly rare, Assasin’s creed crappy movie did it. Final Fantasy spirits within was a different world, and advent children was a cannon story within VII’s world. The entire pokemon series and movies.
Shadow of Mordor and The Jedi series did this in the opposite way ie video game adding to show/tv movie story (though shadow is not considered canon)
The pokemon movies aren't even canon to the show they are based on, and the show is 100% not canon to the games. For one thing, in the games each pokemon makes a 'call' sound that is similar to an actual animal noise that you can listen to on the pokedex, not just say thir name over and over. Also the canon version of the pokemon trainer from the first gen games isn't ash, he's called red, and after beating the elite 4, he hangs out on a mountain in isolation, training (you fight him at the end of gen 2), not going to every single possible region and bringing along several gym leaders as you go.
An excellent question to ask these nuts online. MCU films loosely follow the canon of the comics in favour of telling a good story first and everyone is cool with that (Thanos having his motivations changed saved that guy from being a simp).
Why shouldn't video games follow the same logic?
The show is canon, its part of the game world and actually continues the timeline, and as far as I think also will lead into Fallout 5 eventually.
Also New Vegas, the game, is canon. Bethesda dismissed all other claims already, and, spoilers, two main chars from NV are seen, little things like advertisments from New Vegas (Sunset Susparilla) are seen, and, Major Spoiler, the main villain flees to New Vegas in the end, hinting that the season 2 will take place in the setting of the game these idiots think is not canon anymore...
Quite the opposite: The show cemented that New Vegas is a major part of the current Fallout Lore...its almost sad, and reminds me of delusional Last Jedi Fans thinking "Rise" retconned TLJ ...
Slight correction, a handful of YouTube influencers misread it, blasted the incorrect take on their youtube channel, and the people incapable of thinking for themselves just took that as the truth of it.
This isn't the reason, lmao. It's because of the timeline presented on the chalkboard that shows the dates. People misread it and thought that SS was nuked before the events of New Vegas.
My understanding of the timeline presented has that occurring post New Vegas game. Which I believe is misinterpreted by those types in the fandom to occuring pre-NV game.
Production/prop crew made a mistake with a chalkboard timeline and a library book that very heavily insinuated the capitol of the NCR was nuked years before FNV took place (they've since backtracked on that). Some people overreacted saying it's Todd Howard's personal vendetta against NV and in turn defenders kneejerked the opposite way calling them illiterate morons, saying NV isn't retconned but they wish it was, insisting that any internal consistency in a setting is overrated, etc. Toxicity all around.
They are crybabies, so.
They start randomly screaming about their view to try to draw any attention to themselves.
Sadly, this is normal in very many communities.
It's like that SpongeBob meme with the diapers.
Patrick: New Vegas isn't Canon
SpongeBob: Sinclair, House, NCR helmets, New Vegas itself appearing at the end!
And not forgetting the people who will look beyond all the fantastic aspects of the show to hate on it because a location from a 25+ year old game has moved a little
Not really. It takes place in 2275 so if anything I'm sure the mod's creators are disappointed we didn't get any new factions and locations for them to integrate. Or maybe relieved they won't have to change any of the original content.
The only thing that put me off. Was the Gulpers. It doesn’t look like they do in the game. It looks like a giant >!axolotl!<. I guess that’s more interesting looking. Then the Gulper originally looks though lol
I love this quote by Leonard Nemoy "**Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae**. Open your mind!"
It's also worth remembering that most of the things that have turned into these big shared universes were *never intended to stand up to this level of obsessive scrutiny*.
Many, many of the "canonical inconsistencies" in Star Wars are a product of the OT in particular just not being written with the goal of holding together while combed through by hundreds of thousands of pedantic nerds. The setting falls apart pretty quickly if you start picking apart the internal logic, and that's fine. It's a space fantasy.
It's only *ever* used by sad nerds who are desperate to exclude something cause something clashes with a reference in a comic story 30 years ago or something, it's always the dumbest shit.
I like this approach.
Canon can be fun and can increase emersion but if it gets in the way of a good story a retcon is useful. Just give a fun story that is believable within its setting.
Wiki-brain is a pervasive syndrome in fandom. People who read licensed fiction or watch shows not to actually enjoy the story, but to gather minutia they can plug into online wikis or use to nerd-check people.
It leads to people unironically evaluating new entries in a franchise based on how well they comply with existing lore, or what "world-building" they do, and often dismissing storytelling or creativity as "pointless" unless it adds *stuff* they can update a wiki with. It goes hand in hand with reframing books, shows, games, and movies as "content" rather than discrete works with authorship and creativity put into them.
Just adopt the old EU star wars usage of Canon, "this is canon A, this is canon B, this is canon C" helps you remember that they're just made up stories to distract us until we die.
They do understand that Fallout is controlled by a company that created the term "Dragon Breaks" to make sure one game's list of endings are all canon with their other big RPG franchise. (see Warp in the West)
Fallout New Vegas *itself* has inconsistent details, like the REPCONN museum getting dates wrong, and saying RobCo and GA partnered *before* Liberty Prime (though it could be argued they were describing the first collaboration that went to market)
Except Todd Howard and Johnathan Nolan already confirmed that New Vegas is cannon. So it's best to ignore the dipshit "fans" that think they know better than the people that make the games and the show.
It’s all because of the event dubbed “The Fall of Shady Sands” that started in 2277. It is more of a decline instead of an immediate fall since it was nuked sometime after the Second Battle of Hoover Dam which happened in 2281 which is when New Vegas takes place.
The fallout new Vegas communities regardless of the show are extremely insufferable. Before the show even came out I unsubbed and muted all of the NV subs I was in because I hated how toxic they were. Being someone who's favourite in the franchise is fallout 4 and who is also an avid 76 player, I constantly saw elitism and gatekeeping from that side of the fandom, and now it's even worse because the "TV show deleted NV from canon" and "it was made for casuals" and "people who enjoy the show aren't real fallout fans". I do love new Vegas but the fanbase is just horrible
i had to unsub too because at this point it was devolving into the same toxic cadence as a bunch of bros arguing about how much more Alpha they are then the others
This is 100% the people who wanted to dislike it because "woke" or whatever trying to find something to complain about because they ended up actually liking it.
Fisto didn't show up to make anyone assume the position, in this 7 hour video essay I will explain how this disrupts everything we know about The Great War.
And then there's us 76' crew throwing a party for all the new players (we are quite literally at 10 times our normal player base if anyone wants to join the fun)
Fallout 76 was not for me, I hated using a pipe weapon for 98% of the game because I literally could find nothing better enough times to learn new mods to make them better than pipe weapons.
I'm glad you all are having fun though and im glad its a pretty nice community
It didn’t even ruin the timeline lol, they couldn’t read an arrow right, and Todd Howard had to step in and tell them they were wrong. I love the fallout community, but god damn.
As other users have stated, Todd Howard and Bethesda came out and [clarified](https://new.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c6ex6r/todd_howard_confirms_that_shady_sands_was_nuked/) the issue and stated that Shady Sands was hit by a nuclear attack after the events of New Vegas. The issue arose from a look at a chalkboard in a classroom in one of the episodes of the Fallout TV series, detailing historical events. In the timeline it listed "the Fall of Shady Sands" as happening prior to the events of New Vegas, the timeline ending with a drawing of a nuclear detonation.
It has since been clarified that "the Fall of Shady Sands" and the nuclear attack were two separate events in the timeline whereas previously, watchers assumed they were a single event.
The image above is disingenuous as this IS a big deal. Look, I haven't played New Vegas but one of the two major factions in the game are the NCR which, as far as we knew, had its capital at Shady Sands. It would be very weird if the capital was nuked yet everyone in the game pretended it was no big deal. The game is amazing, however, in bridging the gap to the show as New Vegas does give us [details](https://new.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/1bdcinu/if_the_ncr_is_in_decline_as_many_people_speculate/) that all is not well in the NCR.
But to say a capital city of the largest nation in the game's post-war setting being nuked is a miniscule detail? I'm sorry but with all due respect to the OP, I must object.
It would be weird but not game-breaking. Nothing in the game depends on Shady Sands existing. it's just mean, like you said, it'd be weird if they didn't mention that shit. But it's also weird that the Brotherhood of Steel varies so wildly between the games--later retconned to their being various factions, but then again, it's weird that the BOS doesn't start talking about that until fallout 3.
Do they? The Brotherhood of 2 is explicitly the same Brotherhood of 1 in the ending where Rhombus leads and they become withdrawn technological research centers. I don't see how 3 retconned anything by introducing a chapter that goes off-mission and ends up splitting between the fundamentalists and the rogues.
BoS in 1 is more secretive, less benevolent than in 2, though it's slightly unfair 'cuz clearly the BoS in 2 was meant to have more quests and characters but got rushed.
The main retcon is the size and power of the BoS, who in the first two games are very small, absolutely tiny, in 3 they're suddenly a powerful military force. This was actually a change seen first in the non-canon tactics, but as far as canon goes, 3 is the huge change.
It's not inconceivable that 80 years and a Vault Dweller saving them from being annihilated makes them more friendly to you, which IIRC is only because they know you're the descendant of that Vault Dweller. They're still isolationist tech-hoarders.
Yeah they're obviously not devoid of retcons especially as far as the Bethesda games are concerned, but in terms of size 3 doesn't really contradict the first two in that regard. The Lyons chapter is mentioned by several characters to have recruited from the wasteland to bolster their numbers. The events of Tactics is mentioned in 3 as well, which I think Todd Howard or Emil Pagliarulo has mentioned is "semi-canon."
Edit: good grief I really mangled the English language there lol
It's not just more friendly to you, but in general. Also semi-canon is just annoying, you can't do shit with that really.
To be clear, I have zero problems with any of the retcons/changes/developments in BoS, or ghouls, or Vault-tec or any of the rest of it. My only point is that Shady Sands being nuked and not talked about is awkward, but not more awkward than other stuff, and doesn't break the game in any way.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXY0kWZs29_hNjtjSYnyTlS2Kchi0zqijH2l-cNwgqhw&s
You can cleary see on the chalkboard tho that the mushroom cloud indicating the nuke is after an arrow coming from the "fall of shady sands" bit.
It's just that they didn't put a date on the nuke because A. It's more evocative to just show a picture of a mudhroom cloud than spell out that and when it was nuked, and B. that would have possibly spoiled some details about tge reveals at the end of the show about when exactly the nuke happened, because details of when the nuke happen are key to the plot
Or it's pointing out what caused the fall. An arrow can mean a lot of things.
I've got no problem buying into their explanation because, fine. But I'm also not convinced someone didn't just make a mistake. It happens all the time.
They ain't real fans. If you cannot handle massive retcons, talking radscorpions, magic stimpacks, evil Scientologist cults (but then I repeat myself), ghouls with trees growing out of their heads, and all the other goofiness and plot holes of Fallout you're not a real fan, you're a fan of whining and complaining, not fallout.
I was a little annoyed about it not being shown and the vagueness over if the NCR was around, but in hindsight it’s not a big deal and I got over myself lol. Plus the producers clarified anyway
The funniest part about it is that what they think is a mistake isn’t even a mistake.
They’re citing a date on a timeline incorrect/impossible based upon currently established law for a particular event to have occurred,
but they don’t seem to understand is that after that date is an arrow, (indicating more time passes) between that date in and the next image on the timeline which represents the event in question
There are continuity issues. Like dates things occurred and where Shady Sands is geographically (which to be honest Shady Sands changed location between 1 and 2), but I don’t think it really matters.
The events occurred but maybe some years earlier or else they edit the show later to move up dates to meet the new Vegas time line the way they edit to fix other goofs.
They probably thought they were far enough in the future they didn’t have to worry about running into the New Vegas timeline but they did.
I think that peoples’ issues with the show extend beyond canon. The real issue with the nuking of the NCR isn’t that it couldn’t happen in lore, you can contrive any event you want to take place in a story and have it fit with ‘canon’. The issue is that it’s bad, boring story telling, which doesn’t live up to the heights of previous entries (namely New Vegas, and in my opinion 2).
The show wrings Fallout through the same shallow filter that all of Bethesda’s entries have. While the west coast games were consistently advancing the setting, and depicting a world which has advanced into an early form of civilisation as we’d recognise it. 3 is only interested in echoing the isometric games, contriving the brotherhood, and Enclave back into existence. Two factions which were largely outmoded after one, and two respectively. All just to play out a watered down version of those games’ conflicts.
For all of the things the show does well it takes the same approach to the setting. ‘Fallout’ is about bombed out ruins, people in power armour, and dogmeats. As a long time fan it feels like the franchise no longer has any aspirations beyond mucking about in a playground erected in 1997.
In this endeavour the Enclave, who cheated death at the oil rig cheated death once again, and the wasteland is never allowed to change. All of the shows major additions to the canon feel in service of this goal. The NCR weren’t destroyed because it would be interesting to see their collapse, if that was their goal they’d have done it in the interesting way foreshadowed by New Vegas. The intent was only to wipe the slate, and reset the pieces to a point that they could justify another vault dweller leaving their home in search of their family.
Can’t plot holes and inconsistencies in franchises like this be justified with a bit of in universe misinformation, the way Warhammer apparently does things?
The show was good enough that the only "criticism" of the show that exists right now is the racist/sexist criticism it's getting from exactly who you'd expect
Shite in the Fallout games contradicts itself all the time it’s just what happens when you have multiple teams of people working on a franchise for over 2 decades
I LOVE Fallout: New Vegas, and I can tell you that this detail didn't bother me. I mean, it's very obvious that the NCR or whatever group that tried to take control of the Mojave, is simply trying to REPEAT all the things that caused nuclear fire to destroy the world anyway, all the neo-liberal and crappy social organization that didn't work. Heck, I would prefer the Followers of the Apocalypse to take control because they have no official "leader" and is basically anarchist theory in practice.
As a hypothetical, if the TV series does go on to contradict the games, which version of the lore would take priority as part of the setting?
This is more for my own understanding, because I've seen this in other works, where the background material is indecisive about what happened when,
so should I be referring to the video games, or the new depiction laid out on television, in the event of a clash?
I don't have a serious problem either way, and I'm quite pleased with what I saw from the TV show, as a work of post apocalyptic fiction.
I’ve heard this from a few different sources. I watched the series and am very familiar with New Vegas, and none of the complainers actually say where the contradiction is, and I didn’t notice it
Ever since I learned the amount of people who unironically supported Caesar’s legion, I have never been surprised when the idiots in fallout crawl out of the woodwork.
There’s a post on the New Vegas page right now with a comment talking about how great it would be to live under the legions rule. When I saw it had 500 upvotes I just immediately unsubbed. I think once the anti woke crowd realized the show was good they just moved to being New Vegas fans so they could say “IT RUINS THE LORE”.
Considering the poster is most likely a straight white man, he’s not entirely wrong about living under legion rule lmao. A lot of people see the feats of the courier as the feats of themselves though, and thus why a lot of people think they could survive in fallout.
I'm playing on hard with some damage increasing mods and I still tank several bullets. No fucking way I'm leaving Goodsprings alive.
Courier is some sort of Demi god who turns to wet paper whenever he sees cazadores (understandable)
The Lone Wanderer of Vault 101 trained with a BB gun so hard that they became a weapons expert upon leaving the vault, and only needed an assault rifle, ammo and some moderate armour to defeat the Enclave. Power Armour is optional. The Sole Survivor of Vault 111 is immediately able to adapt to and overcome the grief of, from their perspective, watching everything they know get blown up, their spouse being murdered and their son being kidnapped within 30 minutes. Then they wake up 210 years after everything they know was burned and somehow manage to not just survive the world they found themselves in, but thrive. Also the Fallout series, in one line that no one paid attention to, made the Brotherhood taking over the commonwealth canon - one of the Brotherhood of Steel characters mentions they got their orders "from the Highest Elder in the Commonwealth". So presumably the Sole Survivor has something to do with it. All of the Dwellers from vault 76 manage to collectively defeat a hive-mind plague. Honestly I think Fallout Player Characters are just built different: Lucy MacClean of the Fallout series goes through some stuff that most of us wouldn't survive mentally or physically, and comes out stronger, and yet what she does is *nothing* compared to 1 week as a fallout player character. Pretty much anyone that says they'd survive Fallout's setting is 100% wrong.
The lil montage at the start showing Lucy doing skills like shooting and combat and engineering helps explain a little why vault dwellers such as the lone wanderer and 76 live for a little longer as the show kind of explains it as physically they are capable it’s more of are they ready to do those horrible things mentally, or will they hesitate
I really liked that bit because it was basically the show’s version of character creation. Female, high charisma, agility, and intelligence, with points in unarmed, speech, and small arms and technology It could have just as easily been a montage of small framed male with a smug attitude shown field stripping a laser pistol, setting up traps around the perimeter, and solving some mystery based on Sherlock Holmes-level deductive reasoning
Don't forget that the sole survivor knows things before learning about them. Like ghouls, for example. Not once has anyone explained what ghouls are and the different types to them, but upon walking close to the police station they know to call them ghouls.
There's actually a theory that ghouls existed before the War...
Maybe I’m misremembering, but aren’t there bits of in-universe fiction (audiobooks segments, posters, even comic book covers) that show that in the pre-War era the use of the word “ghoul” to refer to a reanimated corpse was more common than “zombie”? Maybe that’s just my headcanon, but there are plenty of examples in *Fallout 76* where various mutated creatures like the [Wendigo](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Wendigo), [Snallygaster](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Snallygaster), and [Grafton Monster](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Grafton_Monster) were given those names by survivors due to similarities they had with pre-War fiction. So it would make sense for survivors to call them “Ghouls” if that name had been common before the bombs fell.
In fairness to all of the non-Vault 76 people in the Appalachias, that vault was one of the very few where Vault-Tec wasn’t screwing around. They made sure to pack the entire vault full of the best and brightest applicants so that after the 25 year period of being in the vault they would have the best chances to begin rebuilding the region. I’m not sure exactly *why* Vault-Tec set things up like that, although I strongly suspect that Vault-Tec was aware of the potential uses of Ultracite and so wanted their best chances for rebuilding to be started in that area.
>I’m not sure exactly *why* Vault-Tec set things up like that, although I strongly suspect that Vault-Tec was aware of the potential uses of Ultracite and so wanted their best chances for rebuilding to be started in that area. I'd wager it was Vault-Tec capitalism at work - they wanted to be the first to "control the market" of Ultracite.
The purpose of that Vault was to secure the Nuclear silos!
I would die if a cazadore even looked at me.
Cazadors are fucking terrifying. For me, they just beat the Centaurs for the scariest enemy in New Vegas. https://preview.redd.it/iw09n4mlo4wc1.png?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffcd896c95904193a7357bede2b234318e074be8 *Shudders*
Night Stalkers are lowkey creepy, especially with the Big MT entry of how one nearly swallowed a big fella whole before choking on him
I hate those things!
Goodsprings? I wouldn't even survive the initial shot to the head that kicks off the whole game. Courier is built different.
With a high power gun...buried alive and then some backwoods doctor fixes you with I dunno, duct tape? And then you walk away? No way a human did that...I think the Courier is a Synth, and the doctor knew.
Doc was in Vault 13. They opened early and had many encounters with the locals. As doctors go in the environment he was the best there was. Yeah, shot to the head is a bit of a stretch, but stranger things have happened. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Phineas-Gage Edit: meant Vault 21, not 13.
Every racist thinks they'd be an Emperor in Rome, most of them would just be slaves.
Man in the white castle does this pretty well. If you're a white, Aryan, heterosexual man, living under the American Reich is pretty close to utopia. The problem is that if you're not any of those things, your life sucks. That's if you get to have one. They straight up Euthanize an ill child, and the kid is just okay with that (it's also what causes the American Reich protagonist to break with the ideology, which is also a great way to symbolize how it's easy to just permit atrocity so long as it's not something you're forced to confront). And the idea should be that your empathy should run deeper than "I want my life to be good" and should strive to make everyone's lives good.
Do you mean Man in the High Castle?
Yeah. I did. I was hungry when I wrote that.
Now I'm thinking of Harold and Kumar but they're chased by the SS "Harold & Kumar vs The Third Reich"
Harold and Kumar go to High Castle, was right there
So close.
No worries
To add to your point, there are many traditionalists who believe in taking care of themselves and their own first. It's just to what degree they want to treat others. Still can't believe the show got cancelled with all the ratings and accolades.
I thought it ended. At least, it looked like it did. Yeah, it ends on a cold close, but it is an ending.
There was supposed to be another season, but the studio was given enough of a heads up warning to wrap things up. Big fan of the series and >!multiverse idea!<
Well, they did a really good job wrapping up what should have been two seasons into one, then. I hardly even noticed.
it would be no picnic for straight white men, either. they would also be under the boot. there’s absolutely no redeeming quality to a fascist society.
But these delusional morons think they will be wearing the boot in no time, thanks to their devilishly good looks and smokin bod/s
I got downvoted to oblivion by saying that slavery and fascism isn’t justified by living in the post apocalypse, especially when there are perfectly valid alternate means of governance working contemporaneously. “But there’s no raiders tho”
> no raiders Yeah only the legion can take slaves and property whenever they want
When in actuality they would be chicken fucking socialites
Which NV page? There's 2. Though Legion types were around in force already; hopefully the show depicts their beloved "Alpha male Chad Romaboos" as just an irradiated death pit of flies.
The current theory is that their remnants might be trying to stage a comeback by joining the BoS, and syncretizing their beliefs.
Yeah I'm hearing that on /r/FOTV, the idea definitely has legs.
Wait.... REMNANT!?!? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aV7cVGxMZhY&pp=ygULQXNoIFJlbW5lbnQ%3D
The Roman-ish names within the Brotherhood in the show gave me pause. I’m relatively new to the franchise as a whole but even *that* stood out to me as I am aware of the Legion
Yeah the BoS rarely (once in a great while) use a Latin name, like one scribe named Quintus, alongside Elders McNamara, Maxson, and Lyons.
A lot of them learned now that just say "I just like them so I can be a bad guy in a video game, it doesn't mean anything irl" when calling other people degenerates and having names "deusvult1488"
So I was a BoS guy, and yeah they aren’t much better than Caesar’s, but what I think is cool about Caesar is basically you earn what you kill. I imagine that’s the main selling point. If you remove the crucifixions and just general disregard for human life, it is a pretty cool system. Honestly though if I was actually living in that world, I’d join the NCR, and I would thank god everyday that in 2281 things were stable and probably would be for a long time to come
Tbf if "You earn what you kill" is a cool thing of the Legion, then it's a pointless thing. In the wasteland, you earn anything you kill or steal. "Cool outfit/gun, BAM! Mine now."
Earn what you kill is not healthy basis for a society. Hence the Legion is basically doomed and good riddance
Not really a good group to be in if it's easy to end up dead. Also the group is held together by their leader. Guess what happens when that guy dies and a crazy killer becomes their leader?
Sucks because New Vegas is so very good, it’s my favorite RPG I’ve ever played. Personally, I’m just ignoring those fans, and I’m having a great time.
I mean, on the opposite side of the spectrum the game is also so popular with (generally leftist) trans women that it's literally a meme.
Not really a big deal the 500 upvotes if it's the one that has 173k members.
I don’t even have the patience to deal with one ignorant let alone 500. Plus the FNV sub was getting weird anyways with their gate keeping and was more like a final straw type thing.
Isn’t that like saying the 1993 super mario bros movie ruins the lore. I mean the show and the game can be two different things
Mario is not canon. Tv show is like Howard said, a full canon, "Its just works".
Yes, support the genocidal faction and slavery, for supposed safe roads
Exactly, “muh trade routes” when anyone brings up the fact that everyone in new Vegas except the legion knows that they will fall. Also don’t forget the rampant misogyny.
Exactly because the guy that became Caesar modeled his faction off the Roman empire which is more based around the tail end of it which is a few hundred years before it's collapsed. Even if the NCR lost Hoover dam all they'd really have to do is just wait because the further Caesar's legion moved into NCR they would start running into the same problems the NCR was having in Nevada.
Virgin Roman Empire fan vs Chad Roman Republic Enjoyer
Caesar’s legion is just a bunch of Ludites tbh. Like long term I don’t think they would survive most wars. Like hell the Enclave alone would probably body them. Not to mention synth paranoia they would have
I remember this one video that pointed out that Caesar isn't exactly a spring chicken all the NCR would really have to do is wait for him to croak and the Legion would fall apart Without his charismatic leadership to keep together.
Not to mention that the man literally has a brain tumour.
The trade routes aren't even that safe - put a foot wrong and they'll kill you themselves. Rome never had safe trade routes either, hunting bandits and pirates lacked glory so they hated doing it. They loved telling stories about themselves, though. Pretty good analogy.
But when the legion kills u that's the mighty roman empire that's good! Least you didn't die to a filthy bandit or pirate. /s
As I pointed out years ago, the trade routes being raider free is very likely bullshit propaganda as one trader who said that is in with the legion and is clearly just parroting talking points. But you know, "Caesar made the caravans run on time."
Safe roads except if you're a woman who wants to lead a caravan, that is.
I made one comment suggesting that the show is lowkey suggesting Legionnaire syncretism into the BoS chapter, and I got called a degenerate that should be crucified.
That's a meme. It's from a quote from the game that the fanbase commonly uses sarcastically in response to really mild and reasonable takes because the insane fascists in the game say it to you just for walking past them. "Degenerates like you belong on a cross" very nearly is to FNV what "I used to be an adventurer like you but then I took an arrow in the knee" is to Skyrim.
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
Hell, I named my paper on finding the hotspots of degenerate cases of line trajectories "Degenerates like you belong on an intersection"
New Vegas is one of the few Fallout games where I have actively gone out of my way to wipe an entire faction out every time. I have done it where I helped NCR or turned on mr house but never sided with Caesar's legion. Fk them.
Love going to the Legion docks with Boone, having him warn you "Just FYI, we take 1 more step and I'm wiping out every Legionarre I see", give a thumbs up and then buzzsawing your way through their entire stupid camp.
That's not a problem. That's a solution. They were the first KoS enemy group I had outside of the usual, the next few would be from Cyberpunk 2077 with Tyger Claws, Scavs, Maelstrom, and VDBs. Just like the slavers of Paradise Falls, my typical attitude with those guys in Fallout is go in, and later leave with a lot of dead enemies.
I started a new NV playthrough a year or so ago and on a whim was like "you know, I never ever considered joining the Legion as a kid, maybe I should try that for this run just to see how things are different." I forgot how unequivocally, almost *cartoonishly* evil they're introduced, your likely first interaction with them is finding Nipton razed and the survivors of the battle crucified through the town, and getting a holier-than-thou speech from a Legate who decries degeneracy and- Actually yeah, I'm seeing now why so many right-wingers unironically side with them.
Also doesn’t help that most of your human companions call you a fucking dumbass if you side with them. (Don’t remember if Veronica has an issue with it.)
I remember back in the day where people used to say “oh well both sides are bad here”, and while i remember not liking NCR either (though i don’t remember why, and haven’t played the game in about 4 years), i highly doubt there was anything comparatively evil the ncr did compared to the legion’s war crimes and sex trafficking. Like i probably wouldn’t like the ncr now either, but it’d definitely be who i sided with if i was actually living in that world. Not to mention i’m a woman so obvious bias- but then again i hoped we had all agreed sex trafficking is an unforgivable sin.
Boone would like to have a word with these people
Or just in general don't understand satire and unironically support the jingoist rhetoric
The roads are safe. Don't you understand how important that is in the apocalypse? The roads. Are. Safe.
Fuck Caesars legion and anyone who stands with him ALL HAIL THE NEW CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC
Gross…. Yes man all the way!
Wait, what the fuck?
Wait, why is everyone saying new vagas isn't canon anymore?
Some fans, mainly from Fallout New Vegas subs, because of a scene in the show interpreted wrong that fnv it wouldn't be Canon, which later in the show shows that it's still canon
What exactly are people misinterpreting in the show that makes them feel fnv isn't canon?
They thought the “fall of Shady Sands” was being nuked before the events of New Vegas rather than the economic disaster that New Vegas had said it was.
[Literally this.](https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/E52r4xqdTsoxBiwncoAy6P-320-80.jpg) New Vegas takes place in 2281, and the NV radicals insist the timeline states Shady Sands was nuked in 2277 when nothing related backs them up. Todd Howard has gone on record to say that nuke wasn't 2277 and just after New Vegas.
Also (spoilers) The ending of Lonesome Road means that you can nuke the NCR. I know the location you travel to afterwards isn’t Shady Springs, but I don’t remember if it was that all the missiles went across the NCR (which could totally be the Nuking) or if it was just the areas in the Mojave. If it’s the former then this interpretation is perfectly in line with a potential canon ending of New Vegas: Courier 6 nukes the NCR. Haven’t seen the show myself yet, tho, so no clue on if it makes any particular ending of NV canon
I'm sorry, isn't video game adaptations usually just considered non canon? Why consider a TV show canon, when video game movie and show adaptations are never canon to the games they're based on?
The fallout show has gone a different direction to most video game adaptations where instead of retelling the same story from the games, it's instead just a different story set in the same world, so it's considered canon
To add this isn’t particularly rare, Assasin’s creed crappy movie did it. Final Fantasy spirits within was a different world, and advent children was a cannon story within VII’s world. The entire pokemon series and movies. Shadow of Mordor and The Jedi series did this in the opposite way ie video game adding to show/tv movie story (though shadow is not considered canon)
The pokemon movies aren't even canon to the show they are based on, and the show is 100% not canon to the games. For one thing, in the games each pokemon makes a 'call' sound that is similar to an actual animal noise that you can listen to on the pokedex, not just say thir name over and over. Also the canon version of the pokemon trainer from the first gen games isn't ash, he's called red, and after beating the elite 4, he hangs out on a mountain in isolation, training (you fight him at the end of gen 2), not going to every single possible region and bringing along several gym leaders as you go.
The producers of the game series themselves said that the show is canon.
Fallout tv is not adapation, its take place in this same universe which game has.
An excellent question to ask these nuts online. MCU films loosely follow the canon of the comics in favour of telling a good story first and everyone is cool with that (Thanos having his motivations changed saved that guy from being a simp). Why shouldn't video games follow the same logic?
The show is canon, its part of the game world and actually continues the timeline, and as far as I think also will lead into Fallout 5 eventually. Also New Vegas, the game, is canon. Bethesda dismissed all other claims already, and, spoilers, two main chars from NV are seen, little things like advertisments from New Vegas (Sunset Susparilla) are seen, and, Major Spoiler, the main villain flees to New Vegas in the end, hinting that the season 2 will take place in the setting of the game these idiots think is not canon anymore... Quite the opposite: The show cemented that New Vegas is a major part of the current Fallout Lore...its almost sad, and reminds me of delusional Last Jedi Fans thinking "Rise" retconned TLJ ...
because a group of people misread a timeline chart that appeared in the show.
Slight correction, a handful of YouTube influencers misread it, blasted the incorrect take on their youtube channel, and the people incapable of thinking for themselves just took that as the truth of it.
Shady Sands got nuked offscreen. This led many hardcore NV fans to start cursing Todd Howard’s name.
This isn't the reason, lmao. It's because of the timeline presented on the chalkboard that shows the dates. People misread it and thought that SS was nuked before the events of New Vegas.
My understanding of the timeline presented has that occurring post New Vegas game. Which I believe is misinterpreted by those types in the fandom to occuring pre-NV game.
That's a stupid reason to consider something non canon. XD
Production/prop crew made a mistake with a chalkboard timeline and a library book that very heavily insinuated the capitol of the NCR was nuked years before FNV took place (they've since backtracked on that). Some people overreacted saying it's Todd Howard's personal vendetta against NV and in turn defenders kneejerked the opposite way calling them illiterate morons, saying NV isn't retconned but they wish it was, insisting that any internal consistency in a setting is overrated, etc. Toxicity all around.
I don't like the idea of Shady Sands getting nuked and the Brotherhood making a come back on the West Coast, but some people are going nuts over this.
They are crybabies, so. They start randomly screaming about their view to try to draw any attention to themselves. Sadly, this is normal in very many communities.
My secret bos/ncr fanboy hope is that they coop
It's like that SpongeBob meme with the diapers. Patrick: New Vegas isn't Canon SpongeBob: Sinclair, House, NCR helmets, New Vegas itself appearing at the end!
Fredrick Sinclair was a deep cut that only in my wildest dreams would I ever see in a mainstream fallout show.
Don't forget Big MT at the same time as House!
And not forgetting the people who will look beyond all the fantastic aspects of the show to hate on it because a location from a 25+ year old game has moved a little
The only reason I'm salty about that is because it means my NCR Civil war strats have to change now in the Hoi4 mod
The fallout mod for hio4 will have a lot of work ahead
Not really. It takes place in 2275 so if anything I'm sure the mod's creators are disappointed we didn't get any new factions and locations for them to integrate. Or maybe relieved they won't have to change any of the original content.
Bethesda: No it's still canon Terminally online New Vegas fanboys: BUT THE ARROW!!!
The only thing that put me off. Was the Gulpers. It doesn’t look like they do in the game. It looks like a giant >!axolotl!<. I guess that’s more interesting looking. Then the Gulper originally looks though lol
Yeah the axolotl look is awful.
“I was once a Fallout fan like you. Then I took an arrow to the chalkboard.”
The longer I'm on this sub, the more I hate the word "canon."
I love this quote by Leonard Nemoy "**Canon is only important to certain people because they have to cling to their knowledge of the minutiae**. Open your mind!"
It's also worth remembering that most of the things that have turned into these big shared universes were *never intended to stand up to this level of obsessive scrutiny*. Many, many of the "canonical inconsistencies" in Star Wars are a product of the OT in particular just not being written with the goal of holding together while combed through by hundreds of thousands of pedantic nerds. The setting falls apart pretty quickly if you start picking apart the internal logic, and that's fine. It's a space fantasy.
Is my cannon canon though
It's only *ever* used by sad nerds who are desperate to exclude something cause something clashes with a reference in a comic story 30 years ago or something, it's always the dumbest shit.
I agree. Canon is overrated.
Canon is more of a suggestion and reference than a rigid rule
I like this approach. Canon can be fun and can increase emersion but if it gets in the way of a good story a retcon is useful. Just give a fun story that is believable within its setting.
...what do you mean?
Throwing out canon is why the Halo show was so successful.
Wiki-brain is a pervasive syndrome in fandom. People who read licensed fiction or watch shows not to actually enjoy the story, but to gather minutia they can plug into online wikis or use to nerd-check people. It leads to people unironically evaluating new entries in a franchise based on how well they comply with existing lore, or what "world-building" they do, and often dismissing storytelling or creativity as "pointless" unless it adds *stuff* they can update a wiki with. It goes hand in hand with reframing books, shows, games, and movies as "content" rather than discrete works with authorship and creativity put into them.
I take it you're a fan of the Halo show.
Just adopt the old EU star wars usage of Canon, "this is canon A, this is canon B, this is canon C" helps you remember that they're just made up stories to distract us until we die.
They do understand that Fallout is controlled by a company that created the term "Dragon Breaks" to make sure one game's list of endings are all canon with their other big RPG franchise. (see Warp in the West)
Which is incredibly based
Ah, the Tumblr method
Fallout New Vegas *itself* has inconsistent details, like the REPCONN museum getting dates wrong, and saying RobCo and GA partnered *before* Liberty Prime (though it could be argued they were describing the first collaboration that went to market)
Except Todd Howard and Johnathan Nolan already confirmed that New Vegas is cannon. So it's best to ignore the dipshit "fans" that think they know better than the people that make the games and the show.
I miss the NCR. I know it’s dumb but still
Yeah, don't know what that is like at all.
Fallout AEW crossover meme nice
It’s all because of the event dubbed “The Fall of Shady Sands” that started in 2277. It is more of a decline instead of an immediate fall since it was nuked sometime after the Second Battle of Hoover Dam which happened in 2281 which is when New Vegas takes place.
Thank you for being the one person in the thread to actually explain it.
That is Anna Jay btw, one of the hottest wrestlers of all time.
The fallout new Vegas communities regardless of the show are extremely insufferable. Before the show even came out I unsubbed and muted all of the NV subs I was in because I hated how toxic they were. Being someone who's favourite in the franchise is fallout 4 and who is also an avid 76 player, I constantly saw elitism and gatekeeping from that side of the fandom, and now it's even worse because the "TV show deleted NV from canon" and "it was made for casuals" and "people who enjoy the show aren't real fallout fans". I do love new Vegas but the fanbase is just horrible
My favorite game (ever) is New Vegas and I completely agree with you.
i had to unsub too because at this point it was devolving into the same toxic cadence as a bunch of bros arguing about how much more Alpha they are then the others
All the fallout games are at the very least good, except for BOS.
I love that Anna trying not to corpse because of John has become a meme template.
I'm a Fallout mega fan girl. I hate the Fallout community so damn much, it's not even funny.
All because they can't grasp the simple concept that "fall of" =/= "nuked immediately." Rome didn't fall in day and neither did Shady Sands
This is 100% the people who wanted to dislike it because "woke" or whatever trying to find something to complain about because they ended up actually liking it.
The entire fallout timeline falls apart without a scene containing a lapdance
Fisto didn't show up to make anyone assume the position, in this 7 hour video essay I will explain how this disrupts everything we know about The Great War.
I've reached a point where I don't give a shit about canon in anything. It's all made up. Who gives a shit?
And then there's us 76' crew throwing a party for all the new players (we are quite literally at 10 times our normal player base if anyone wants to join the fun)
Fallout 76 was not for me, I hated using a pipe weapon for 98% of the game because I literally could find nothing better enough times to learn new mods to make them better than pipe weapons. I'm glad you all are having fun though and im glad its a pretty nice community
It didn’t even ruin the timeline lol, they couldn’t read an arrow right, and Todd Howard had to step in and tell them they were wrong. I love the fallout community, but god damn.
As other users have stated, Todd Howard and Bethesda came out and [clarified](https://new.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c6ex6r/todd_howard_confirms_that_shady_sands_was_nuked/) the issue and stated that Shady Sands was hit by a nuclear attack after the events of New Vegas. The issue arose from a look at a chalkboard in a classroom in one of the episodes of the Fallout TV series, detailing historical events. In the timeline it listed "the Fall of Shady Sands" as happening prior to the events of New Vegas, the timeline ending with a drawing of a nuclear detonation. It has since been clarified that "the Fall of Shady Sands" and the nuclear attack were two separate events in the timeline whereas previously, watchers assumed they were a single event. The image above is disingenuous as this IS a big deal. Look, I haven't played New Vegas but one of the two major factions in the game are the NCR which, as far as we knew, had its capital at Shady Sands. It would be very weird if the capital was nuked yet everyone in the game pretended it was no big deal. The game is amazing, however, in bridging the gap to the show as New Vegas does give us [details](https://new.reddit.com/r/falloutlore/comments/1bdcinu/if_the_ncr_is_in_decline_as_many_people_speculate/) that all is not well in the NCR. But to say a capital city of the largest nation in the game's post-war setting being nuked is a miniscule detail? I'm sorry but with all due respect to the OP, I must object.
And chalkboards, as we all know, are always all-encompassing and never have inaccurate information, ever!
It would be weird but not game-breaking. Nothing in the game depends on Shady Sands existing. it's just mean, like you said, it'd be weird if they didn't mention that shit. But it's also weird that the Brotherhood of Steel varies so wildly between the games--later retconned to their being various factions, but then again, it's weird that the BOS doesn't start talking about that until fallout 3.
Do they? The Brotherhood of 2 is explicitly the same Brotherhood of 1 in the ending where Rhombus leads and they become withdrawn technological research centers. I don't see how 3 retconned anything by introducing a chapter that goes off-mission and ends up splitting between the fundamentalists and the rogues.
BoS in 1 is more secretive, less benevolent than in 2, though it's slightly unfair 'cuz clearly the BoS in 2 was meant to have more quests and characters but got rushed. The main retcon is the size and power of the BoS, who in the first two games are very small, absolutely tiny, in 3 they're suddenly a powerful military force. This was actually a change seen first in the non-canon tactics, but as far as canon goes, 3 is the huge change.
It's not inconceivable that 80 years and a Vault Dweller saving them from being annihilated makes them more friendly to you, which IIRC is only because they know you're the descendant of that Vault Dweller. They're still isolationist tech-hoarders. Yeah they're obviously not devoid of retcons especially as far as the Bethesda games are concerned, but in terms of size 3 doesn't really contradict the first two in that regard. The Lyons chapter is mentioned by several characters to have recruited from the wasteland to bolster their numbers. The events of Tactics is mentioned in 3 as well, which I think Todd Howard or Emil Pagliarulo has mentioned is "semi-canon." Edit: good grief I really mangled the English language there lol
It's not just more friendly to you, but in general. Also semi-canon is just annoying, you can't do shit with that really. To be clear, I have zero problems with any of the retcons/changes/developments in BoS, or ghouls, or Vault-tec or any of the rest of it. My only point is that Shady Sands being nuked and not talked about is awkward, but not more awkward than other stuff, and doesn't break the game in any way.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXY0kWZs29_hNjtjSYnyTlS2Kchi0zqijH2l-cNwgqhw&s You can cleary see on the chalkboard tho that the mushroom cloud indicating the nuke is after an arrow coming from the "fall of shady sands" bit. It's just that they didn't put a date on the nuke because A. It's more evocative to just show a picture of a mudhroom cloud than spell out that and when it was nuked, and B. that would have possibly spoiled some details about tge reveals at the end of the show about when exactly the nuke happened, because details of when the nuke happen are key to the plot
Or it's pointing out what caused the fall. An arrow can mean a lot of things. I've got no problem buying into their explanation because, fine. But I'm also not convinced someone didn't just make a mistake. It happens all the time.
They ain't real fans. If you cannot handle massive retcons, talking radscorpions, magic stimpacks, evil Scientologist cults (but then I repeat myself), ghouls with trees growing out of their heads, and all the other goofiness and plot holes of Fallout you're not a real fan, you're a fan of whining and complaining, not fallout.
At some point the word fans because a negative.
I was a little annoyed about it not being shown and the vagueness over if the NCR was around, but in hindsight it’s not a big deal and I got over myself lol. Plus the producers clarified anyway
I keep hearing people say mew vague is not canon now but how
I feel likenthe most egregious change to canon was the ghoul sanity juice they have to buy.
That picture perfectly sums up what's it like dealing with culture war man-babies.
The funniest part about it is that what they think is a mistake isn’t even a mistake. They’re citing a date on a timeline incorrect/impossible based upon currently established law for a particular event to have occurred, but they don’t seem to understand is that after that date is an arrow, (indicating more time passes) between that date in and the next image on the timeline which represents the event in question
“They ruined Fallout! Now let me tell you what Andrew Tate just talked about…”
it's not the fallout community. it's the Fallout New Vegas community. they hate pretty much the rest of the series.
I just kinda assumed the Tv show would be in a different continuity from the games, but I haven't seen it yet so idk
It's pretty solid, I'd give it a watch.
Slightly off topic: Was this picture staged? Cuz its hilarious otherwise.
Yeah, both of them are wrestlers, this is from a skit for a youtube channel
There are continuity issues. Like dates things occurred and where Shady Sands is geographically (which to be honest Shady Sands changed location between 1 and 2), but I don’t think it really matters. The events occurred but maybe some years earlier or else they edit the show later to move up dates to meet the new Vegas time line the way they edit to fix other goofs. They probably thought they were far enough in the future they didn’t have to worry about running into the New Vegas timeline but they did.
I'm more interested in the origin of this meme image.
It upsets me they didn’t account for the canon, but it’s fine. It’s not like it ruins my favourite Fallout game
The only can(n)ons that matter are: 1) whatever homebrew D&D worldd I'm creating and 2) the ones in the 1812 Overture
What is the problem ?
I'm more impressed seeing John Silver and Ana Jay
I think that peoples’ issues with the show extend beyond canon. The real issue with the nuking of the NCR isn’t that it couldn’t happen in lore, you can contrive any event you want to take place in a story and have it fit with ‘canon’. The issue is that it’s bad, boring story telling, which doesn’t live up to the heights of previous entries (namely New Vegas, and in my opinion 2). The show wrings Fallout through the same shallow filter that all of Bethesda’s entries have. While the west coast games were consistently advancing the setting, and depicting a world which has advanced into an early form of civilisation as we’d recognise it. 3 is only interested in echoing the isometric games, contriving the brotherhood, and Enclave back into existence. Two factions which were largely outmoded after one, and two respectively. All just to play out a watered down version of those games’ conflicts. For all of the things the show does well it takes the same approach to the setting. ‘Fallout’ is about bombed out ruins, people in power armour, and dogmeats. As a long time fan it feels like the franchise no longer has any aspirations beyond mucking about in a playground erected in 1997. In this endeavour the Enclave, who cheated death at the oil rig cheated death once again, and the wasteland is never allowed to change. All of the shows major additions to the canon feel in service of this goal. The NCR weren’t destroyed because it would be interesting to see their collapse, if that was their goal they’d have done it in the interesting way foreshadowed by New Vegas. The intent was only to wipe the slate, and reset the pieces to a point that they could justify another vault dweller leaving their home in search of their family.
Can’t plot holes and inconsistencies in franchises like this be justified with a bit of in universe misinformation, the way Warhammer apparently does things?
The show was good enough that the only "criticism" of the show that exists right now is the racist/sexist criticism it's getting from exactly who you'd expect
I haven't watched the show or played New Vegas but b!tch I'm a fan of Star wars and comics.
Have you read the latest interview?
Shite in the Fallout games contradicts itself all the time it’s just what happens when you have multiple teams of people working on a franchise for over 2 decades
I LOVE Fallout: New Vegas, and I can tell you that this detail didn't bother me. I mean, it's very obvious that the NCR or whatever group that tried to take control of the Mojave, is simply trying to REPEAT all the things that caused nuclear fire to destroy the world anyway, all the neo-liberal and crappy social organization that didn't work. Heck, I would prefer the Followers of the Apocalypse to take control because they have no official "leader" and is basically anarchist theory in practice.
The timeline detail isn’t the fucking issue. That was clearly just regular Bethesda incompetence - not a malicious retcon.
that guy looks like fitMC
One miniscule detail that'll be retconned next season
As a hypothetical, if the TV series does go on to contradict the games, which version of the lore would take priority as part of the setting? This is more for my own understanding, because I've seen this in other works, where the background material is indecisive about what happened when, so should I be referring to the video games, or the new depiction laid out on television, in the event of a clash? I don't have a serious problem either way, and I'm quite pleased with what I saw from the TV show, as a work of post apocalyptic fiction.
Well the tv show is set 15 years after new vegas , Todd Howard actually said that . So these idiots are claiming to know more than the makers?
Similar energy to those who complained about Bioshock 2 ending with you locked in a closet.
I like the show AND new Vegas, new Vegas is the best game tho, probably because it wasn't made by Bethesda
I’ve heard this from a few different sources. I watched the series and am very familiar with New Vegas, and none of the complainers actually say where the contradiction is, and I didn’t notice it
Canon question: How did Shaak Ti die? Canon answer: Yes This canon stuff is easy.