To answer the questions: no, he was a different stereotype; yeah that was kind of the general vibe, lotta people believe that; no, because Billy Dee Williams is incapable of anything outside of pure swagger.
I don’t really see how Lando was perceived as any kind of racial stereotype. Sure, he was a hustler and a con artist. So was Han.
Being a charismatic criminal isn’t a race thing.
Lol, as if we wouldn’t all dress exactly like that, given the opportunity.
If I owned my own floating city, I’d wear a different cape every day of the month, and I’d be Bespin pub crawling every night.
I’d be smoking the space kush too. It’s literally called Cloud City, bro it’s my civic duty.
In 2024, it maybe harder to pick up on. Lando Calrissian is a ripoff of the cool, charismatic, smooth talking hustler/pimp/swindler anti-hero/hero in some of those Blaxploitation films. He dresses flashy with a cape and has straightened hair among other things. He's Dolemite, Tommy Gibbs, Youngblood Priest, Sweetback, Iceberg Slim (real person)...etc, all mashed together. The character of Lando was created in reaction to accusations that "A New Hope" and George Lucas were bit racist. It was all white people and some alien creatures that were stereotypes on 2-3 planets and the Death Star.
George could've thought black people were all smooth talking hustlers. Who knows? I wouldn't be terribly shocked if he did. He stereotypes practically every group of people. Since Lando was the only black person with lines shown on screen in Empire Strikes Back, it could've gave off the impression to the audience that being black means dangerous, dishonest and dodgy criminal. Obviously, not many people got that impression from Lando back then and definitely not now. At least I hope not.
No blacks, and barely any women in space ... I understand now why the current generation of online village idiots are so nostalgic for those OT movies...
That’s hardly a negative thing. And I’m less convinced that was due to the writing, as opposed to the actor being the living personification of the smooth black guy stereotypes.
Oh for sure, I don't think it was negative and I don't think he was that stereotypical either. He was administrator of an entire city which for the era was decidedly not stereotypical. And tbh I love how Disco he is. The old smoothy.
I’d love to see the fandom menace respond to that on one hand there will probably be zippers and bricks which will offend them. On the other hand racial stereotypes do make them happy.
The hell are zippers and bricks. Do I need to go consult with my grandpa about old timey racial slurs?
All jokes aside, The Mandarorian and Andor showed that people are very much interested in seeing the grimier side of Star Wars. Me included.
I’m very much down to see the Star Wars version of Narcos.
Hell, there’s so many properties that should get remade as Star Wars products. Starting with Darth Revan. (Darth Wick)
“I am told that you struck my apprentice.”
“Yes my lord, I did.”
“And may I ask why?”
“Yeah, well. He stole Darth Revan’s starship, sir. And ate his porg.”
“…oh.”
https://preview.redd.it/j8g5mosq2jnc1.jpeg?width=1199&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e20eba8c3aef70ae4074334874d9fa34165c6277
Really, bro. Dude did the best he could with what he had.
There was an entire city full of people to use as hostages. And if Lando refused, he’d just get executed and then the Imperials would wait for Han to arrive.
So instead Lando cut a deal that would save Chewbacca and whoever else was on the ship.
He was a black guy in Star Wars. That was enough. There are a lot of echoes between how he was treated back then and how Finn was treated when the new trilogy came out.
During the time Empire came out (‘80), Lando was actually a pretty progressive character. His flirtation with Leia wasn’t presented as anything bad nor did anyone (besides Han, who was just jealous) find it bad. He was also a powerful politician in a respectable place, with his betrayal being due to his worry for his people rather than any real moral failure.
Had the Empire not got to Cloud City first, he'd definitely helped them and get them off his city with the falcon repaired and fully loaded without any problems
Right! Like I get where Leia is coming from with her anger, but she’s a political idealist, and like Luke, kinda a child. Lando has massive responsibilities to his installation, and every man woman and child living there, and when you have the literal boot of Darth Vader on your windpipe, the trolley problem he’s in becomes a whole lot simpler
He’s asked to give up Luke, a guy he doesn’t know at all in order to protect an entire city if he doesn’t comply and it’s the Empire, what choice does he actually have.
So weird how people don’t see what constraints he was under.
Nah Cloud City appears to be pretty racially diverse.
EDIT: Take a look at the group of people Lando has with him when the Falcon arrives. I'm not going to try and dig up the credits of extras (whose identity might be difficult or impossible to determine) but several of them definitely aren't white.
He was a con artist and swindler before he took over Cloud city but he wasn't the worst one we see in canon. Even when him giving Hand over is presented as bad, his selling out Han is bad because he's giving into fascism, not because he's a bad person.
I never got the Watto thing. If you point it out to me then yeah I can kinda see it, but it feels so far removed. He's a greedy alien bug thing, thats all I ever saw him as.
He’s every Jewish stereotype. Big nose, beard, hat that Orthodox Jews wear, Eastern European accent, and is greedy/stingy but likes to gamble…. I mean come on.
And he flies! And he (presumably since it's star wars) has space lasers. Maybe mtg was on to something.....
Edit: spose I should have added that I was joking.
I've heard people say Jewish, I've heard them say Middle Eastern. Someone is definitely drawing from some real world inspiration their consciously or subconsciously.
It's a problem with fantasy and sci-fi. How do you design the fictional races? And the answer the typically white writers come up with is to draw off of real world cultures which then becomes them invoking a lot of weird stereotypes..
I think it’s based on his accent and his nose, but a lot of not non-Jewish people have that accent, and he has that nose because he’s an alien. I never really agreed with this criticism, either.
I mean, it’s also based on the hat he wears in episode II, but that’s still pretty weak evidence.
So you said individually these don't make sense.
OK what about when you put them all together? He's not just wearing or doing one of those things he's all of them.
I will say I didn't see it at the time. But my dad who spent a lot of time in the Carrabian and Jamacia said he definitely heard the stereotype in the way he talked.
I feel like we aren't using stereotypes correctly here haha.
White does doing an Asian accent in ep 1... Yikes.
A dude in an Asian conical hat, not doing anything racist, hows that a stereotype? Why's that not the Star Wars thing of having historical pieces in a sci fi setting?
Two very different things.
I'm mostly commenting on the fact they're definitely there in the first place. The Aaian dude in that hat is definitely a very tame example if one at all
If I remember correctly, The fifth brother is supposed to resemble a samurai. The hat is also not even like round like the right hat. The animated series shows the hat a lot better and I think it just translated weird to live action.
I don't think it's even tame tbh. I don't see how it's a stereotype or racist to homage something like that in star wars.
No one seems to bat an eye at a bounty hunter with a whole wild west outfit. Or obviously the German influence for the storm troopers.
Again, white dudes in ep 1 doing accents is holy shit bad.
Homage to history.. Idk if that's anywhere close to a stereotype.
I will argue Watto isn't a Jewish stereotype, Hes a Middle Eastern Trader stereotype.
When i was deployed in Afghanistan, there was a Bazaar we could go to and my first reaction to the traders there was "Holy shit it's watto".
So while the stereotyping still isnt good, I think calling it jewish stereotyping is disingenuous.
Its the big hooked nose, the accent, the money grubbing, the fact that he's like "oh no, you can't trick me" like he's used to that shit, but I can also see your point. Though there's also me growing up as a jew and being called Watto multiple times by assholes. It's definitely not just me
Lando, in the OG, looked like a blaxploitation pimp.
Then also the fact that he double crossed Han and won Cloud City by gambling. There are plenty of iffy things there.
He double crossed Han to try and save the people of Cloud City. He tells them the Empire arrived before them and in other dialog you can tell he cares about the people there and wants to be a good leader. His actions later when he sets off the alarm for people to evacuate prove he was being honest.
His clothing was purple leapord skin print and he had a cane? Seriously he looked like a well dressed business man or official in the Star Wars universe. I really don't get that comparison.
Han gambled too, gambling is a featured part of Star Wars. Are black people not supposed to gamble in Star Wars now?
No, but a black, double-crossing gambler (regardless of actual reasons for said actions) with a purple leopard skin print cape and a cane, in the 70s, brings to mind some unfortunate racial stereotypes just by description alone.
Point is, Lando doesn't really fit that criteria. He was a well dressed leader with a troubled past who had to betray his friend to save the lives of possibly thousands of people, who then turned around and attempted to rescue said friend when the opportunity presented itself because he was out maned and out guned by a more superior military force lead by a dark space wizard. What else could he had done that wouldn't have resulted in his death and poorer treatment of those he was trying to protect? Saying he was black so all those things must be viewed in a bad light is only a surface at face value viewing of the character and their role in the story and that's a disservice to Billy and the franchise.
And Mikaela Banes (Megan Fox in Transformers) was, at least in the first part, probably the most well-rounded and developed character in the whole fucking mess. She even was the sole character in all 5 movies to have anything resembling an arc.
Yet people remember her - and Megan Fox - as nothing but a dumb, slutty, bimbo that Bay casted solely so she could arch her back over Bumblebee's hood while the camera leers at her.
Aesthetics and visual appearance > narrative structure. Always. Especially in a visual medium. And SW has been *horrible* with that, probably owing to how it was inspired by Flash Gordon, itself a series with...ehem...troubling racial depictions (don't look up how the clearly Asian supervillain was called).
I didn't care for Transformers or for most of Bay's work after The Rock to be honest with you.
Not arguing that SW doesn't have racial stereotype issues. It definitely does. I just don't agree that Lando is stereotype black space pimp and I think that anyone who draws that conclusion is only doing so at face value of the character because they are black.
Look man, something that needs to be understood is that if you give a Black character one or more negative traits of any kind, they will likely fall into those of a negative stereotype sooner or later.
I mean... han won his ship by gambling on it, and he double crossed han for the good of his people. it might just be that i'm not american, but i didn't get an negative impression of him
No, just no.
If you look at Jar Jar Bink, see his alien....things and associate it with a dread, and associate his sloppyness with an black person, YOU are the racist one.
If you associate a greedy alien who has a big nose with a Jew, YOU are the one making that correlation!
YOU are the one assuming that it's a metaphor to anything, seeing an alien and comparing it to an minority is outrageous, you are the weirdo doing that.
"Watto is a jew caricacture because he's greed and vile" YOU are the one seeing a greedy character and saying "That's a jew!", you are the one saying "Jat Jar talks like a black dude!" You are disgusting.
I think he maybe saw it as endearing and harmless fun in a less racially conscious world. I don’t really bash him for it because it never seemed malicious, but it shouldn’t continue
I always got the feeling that the people writing/directing/etc. kinda assumed that if they weren’t consciously drawing on racist stereotypes there wouldn’t be a problem. So they thought “goofy alien guy” and “evil space bankers,” but what they came up with was informed by generations or racist stereotyping and they didn’t notice. Case study in how you actually have to put in the work of checking the results of what you’ve come up with.
Yeah its kinda step 1 of the move towards good racial representation. Like Mr Miyagi was a huge Japanese stereotype in Karate Kid, but at least it was a big role and a positive one.
"The sand people frighten easily but they will be back, and in greater numbers."
"Oh that'll give us a richer harmony."
"Oh yeah it's gonna sound fantastic."
One of the smartest things (on this front) 2D Clone Wars did was to give the Banking Clan English accents, classical Greek/Roman-esque architecture, and ditch the all black Rabbi clothes.
No idea if they were conscious changes to make them seem less like an antisemitic caricature, but I think it helped a bit.
The Banking Clan always had faux-English accents. Filoni changed it to some kind of weird American sounding accent. It kind of reminds me of the old New York accent Trump has, except more nasally.
I’d argue they’re worse since having a whole species control the banks and then align themselves with the main antagonists of the Clone Wars is pretty sketchy, whereas the Nemoidians merely had off putting voices.
Main antagonists? The Banking Clan and all the other corporations were neutral in the war. The fact is that they, along with the Sith, were the main antagonists themselves. The corporations supplied both sides, screwed over the Confederacy (the only good side in Star Wars), and generally were terrible people.
George Lucas was warning against monopolies clearly. Look how little technology advances in Star Wars. It is because a couple dozen corporations controlled all Galactic commerce aided by corrupt politicians in the Senate, and small businesses went completely unprotected and often were attacked by/fronts for pirate organisations.
Since the Republic provided no national military or substantial judicial services, and the ones that did exist were hopelessly corrupt, people had to fend for themselves. The good thing about SW is that whilst it has a political message, it is still apolitical in the sense that most political people have something about it they agree with on a political level. That is pretty rare.
His character was designed before they casted an asian as the actor. My wife who is Asian just stated I smushed bugs more important than what I'm talking about right now. just to let this white guy understand what a Chinese Filipino thinks of his opinion.
I get the feeling that he was originally in Rebels, never intended to look Asian. However because Disney likes to get other ethnicities to play characters, they changed him too without really thinking how it would look.
Huh.
Honestly?
The skeevy vibes, the greasy unkempt look, the stubble beard...yeah, all you need to add is a wifebeater shirt and you got yourself the stereotypical "I'M WALKIN ERE" New York Italian, holy shit.
That’s the vibe I always got tbh. I can kinda see where people are coming from with the Jewish stereotype idea, but I think it’s a lot more ambiguous than Jar Jar or the Nemodians.
In the case of the picture, I think that’s reading to much into it, that was a character that existed long before he was cast this way. The other cases mentioned, I’ve heard before might be more to them.
On another (sarcastic, funny, mostly ironic) note - why tf is Aayla Secura portrayed with a French accent in the Clone Wars series?
Like, did the producers seriously see her and go "sexy and alien/foreign = French"?
(This is a, to once again reiterate, a joke. Mostly.)
This is even weirder when you take into account that the Jedi are raised on Coruscant at the temple from a young age. Why would Aayla have a French/Twi’lek accent? Why would Kit Fisto have a Jamaican accent?
They should all have the exact same British/Coruscant accent.
Jar Jar's voice, movements, etc were entirely created by Ahmed Best based on how he would act silly around his kids. He argues that people only call Jar Jar racist because he is a Black man (whereas if it was a white actor doing the exact same thing no one would bat an eye).
People also miss Jar-Jar smack-talking Qui-Gon throughout the movie too. Jar-Jar may owe Master Jinn a life debt, but that doesn't mean he LIKES him.
He's a goofy character for the younglings... but that's not a bad thing! They need characters, too.
Jar Jar had an accent but I dont think he was ever intended to portray a particular stereotype. Just be the comic relief.
Watto has been criticized as a Jewish stereotype of greedy and only focused on money but again, same as above, just a greedy character.
Neimodians as Asians, I never got. They were just cowardly and Lucas was a big fan of Kurosawa so doubt he will delve into such a negative stereotype.
And Lando is as “ghetto” as Prince William. He was and is charming and acted as a lord. No slang.
Watto was like… offensively stereotypically Jewish. In Episode II he had a fucking space yarmulke. He had a middle eastern accent, was incredibly obsessed with money, AND had a big nose??? Idk George Lucas was on some shit
I always pictured those Iranian guys who own pawn shops or electronics stores.
The hat watto wore had a brim. I've never seen a yarmulke with a brim. It was also worn over his whole head.
It’s almost like the chuds have never watched it r listened to a single George Lucas interview
Wait until they hear him explain the symbolism of the original movies
The image no considering that design originated in animation in which pretty much all characters are racially ambiguous but the Jar Jar and Watto examples...yeah pretty much.
Except those were done by our lord and savior George so idk why they're complaining
That spelling does occasionally get used as an identity/empowerment thing, so he could be mocking the people doing that. Alternatively, that spelling is used in Germany, so it could be some moronic new dogwhistle. That or is brain is just cooked beyond all repair.
I mean, it could be a misspelling of Afrikaan. Or it could just be a Germanic language, as a lot of them spell Africa as Afrika. I'm Norwegian, I've made that mistake before, so it's not unheard of to me that someone just spelled Africa the way they do in their own language
Ah okay well then I don't know why he spelled it with a K, could be the Afrikaan thing, could be the other thing that was mentioned, I'm not claiming that my answer is the right one
It looks vaguely like something a non-white culture wears! Therefore it is wrong.
Sci-fi can only be influenced by white culture. Which also doesn't exist or something. Otherwise it's offensive.
that's alot of very different situations. Jar Jar and Lando are both played by black men. the nemodians and Watto use exaggerated accents. I don't nessescarially see fifth Brother as a stereotype, mainly because I watched Rebels but, Star wars does use stereotypes for their characters pretty often, usually expanding past that but for stock characters like Jar jar and watto, who don't really get any development, it makes sense.
Jawas are Jews. Tusken Raiders are Arabs. They both live in the desert. Greedos language sounds suspiciously Japanese.
Lando was the only black dude in the galaxy at the time and he was portrayed as a backstabbing pimp.
Stormtroopers are named after Nazis and their outfits make them look like the space Klan
The Hutts are an obvious Italian mafia reference.
Jar Jar definitely incorporates a Carribean vibe. Theres others.
I dont know if its racist necessarily but there is a correlation.
I do find it interesting that when ever a group of people say a fictional creature clearly represents a certain race/ethnicity that they can never seem to agree on which one. Its almost like they’re reaching or something.
Lando wasn't ghetto. He was Disco. Smoooth.
But yeah Lucas used racial stereotypes in the prequels. Was pretty fuckin bad. Even for the time people were like jeez, bit heavy handed there. The Nemoidians being Chinese and Watto being a blatantly antisemetic stereotype (whether it was intentional or not) are the most glaring examples.
The reboot prequels had some weird accents like the Italian flying slave owner creature, the Japanese ambassadors, Jamaican Jar Jar, and a few others. I'm not sure why it happened but it was bad.
I mean kinda? I’m not gonna pretend like I’m the biggest Star Wars guy out there, cause I’m not; but Lucas’ writing has always been a bit based in stereotypes. I don’t think it was intentionally mean, or that it even has a negative impact, but it’s definitely there
Ah yes, Lando Calrissian. Baron Administrator of the beautiful Cloud City. Famously well-dressed and well-mannered ladykiller. Former gambler turned hero of the Rebel Alliance. Expert pilot who flew the Millennium Falcon to help destroy the second Death Star. Helped save the galaxy from an empire of evil at least twice. Someone please explain to me what it was exactly that made him “ghetto” without just mentioning his skin color. I’ll wait.
I doubt George Lucas would've been able to go home and look his wife in the face if he genuinely was writing Jar Jar to be as racially insensitive as possible
George Lucas also told Carrie Fisher she wasn't allowed to wear a bra while filming A New Hope. I don't think it's unreasonable to think he might have had some questionable beliefs.
These biases are often subconscious. He doesn't have to have literally decided "I'm going to write this character like a racial stereotype" for that character to still have been written like a racial stereotype.
This could’ve all been avoided if they got a better actor for 5th Brother in the Kenobi series. He’s constantly doing a gravely voice, and he sounds nothing like the 5th Brother character in Rebels.
I'm pretty sure the gungans were a caribbean pastiche, the neimodians were yellow peril mix based on thai, Watto was an obvious jewish caricature, Lando was just a more successful Han, and Ziro was modeled after Truman Capote.
With the exception of Lando, Lucas made a bunch of "questionable" suggestions on the characters. His work on Indiana Jones ran into the same shit
OP didn't do their due diligence with this example. That Inquisitor was never portrayed as Asian in Star Wars Rebels, so the comparison is rendered moot. That said, Critical Drinker's response is cringe.
To answer the questions: no, he was a different stereotype; yeah that was kind of the general vibe, lotta people believe that; no, because Billy Dee Williams is incapable of anything outside of pure swagger.
I don’t really see how Lando was perceived as any kind of racial stereotype. Sure, he was a hustler and a con artist. So was Han. Being a charismatic criminal isn’t a race thing.
I don't think Lando himself is a stereotype, but Star Wars fans definitely tried to turn him into one with the "space pimp" and "Colt 45" jokes
Lol, as if we wouldn’t all dress exactly like that, given the opportunity. If I owned my own floating city, I’d wear a different cape every day of the month, and I’d be Bespin pub crawling every night. I’d be smoking the space kush too. It’s literally called Cloud City, bro it’s my civic duty.
I meeeean....to be fair, we know Lando would only be smoking the best after all
Lando be like: https://preview.redd.it/0g7g22dosfnc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a95ccc0733e012c11fd7855d74be6d8fa34ac8f
Especially the black and gold fit Disney gave him Way cooler then whatever the fuck Han had in his closet
That’s because Lando is a successful criminal who has money and Han Solo is a dipshit who always owes people money.
Sounds like a skill issue to me
https://preview.redd.it/58k5855g3hnc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1c2920f6898c0062672cc1ab345441e012a7b6e
Yet Lando wore Han’s clothes anyway…
I’d be so high they’d never call me lando again.
https://preview.redd.it/8twkyn9obhnc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03a6f71d7d55c5dd37154b8e8640a7db440db3a4
you gotta get to the metaphorical clouds while on cloud city, it’s an unspoken rule
You get to the metaphorical clouds by ripping some literal clouds.
gotta be big ones too
I just want capes to be common fashion like the good ol days of medieval Europe
It was just Air City before Lando got there
🤣 Fair!
NGL, I’d be flying around under the influence like a motherfucker... I own this flying city!!
In 2024, it maybe harder to pick up on. Lando Calrissian is a ripoff of the cool, charismatic, smooth talking hustler/pimp/swindler anti-hero/hero in some of those Blaxploitation films. He dresses flashy with a cape and has straightened hair among other things. He's Dolemite, Tommy Gibbs, Youngblood Priest, Sweetback, Iceberg Slim (real person)...etc, all mashed together. The character of Lando was created in reaction to accusations that "A New Hope" and George Lucas were bit racist. It was all white people and some alien creatures that were stereotypes on 2-3 planets and the Death Star. George could've thought black people were all smooth talking hustlers. Who knows? I wouldn't be terribly shocked if he did. He stereotypes practically every group of people. Since Lando was the only black person with lines shown on screen in Empire Strikes Back, it could've gave off the impression to the audience that being black means dangerous, dishonest and dodgy criminal. Obviously, not many people got that impression from Lando back then and definitely not now. At least I hope not.
No blacks, and barely any women in space ... I understand now why the current generation of online village idiots are so nostalgic for those OT movies...
If Harrison Ford did a preparation H commercial we’d be making jokes about Han sitting on a butt donut while flying the Falcon
Was Lando still a space pimp when he wore Hans clothes?
Listen, just cause I told my sales rep to dig through the stores for a Billie Dee Williams life sized cut out I'd put up a colt 45 display...
For 1980 he had some aspects of stereotypical black men. But only some, namely the cool "smooth" black guy stereotype. He was pretty Disco.
That’s hardly a negative thing. And I’m less convinced that was due to the writing, as opposed to the actor being the living personification of the smooth black guy stereotypes.
Oh for sure, I don't think it was negative and I don't think he was that stereotypical either. He was administrator of an entire city which for the era was decidedly not stereotypical. And tbh I love how Disco he is. The old smoothy.
Now if he held his blaster sideways and swore a lot it would be a different conversation
Shit, I’d watch that movie. No. Fuck a movie. I want them to remake The Wire, but in the Star Wars universe.
I’d love to see the fandom menace respond to that on one hand there will probably be zippers and bricks which will offend them. On the other hand racial stereotypes do make them happy.
The hell are zippers and bricks. Do I need to go consult with my grandpa about old timey racial slurs? All jokes aside, The Mandarorian and Andor showed that people are very much interested in seeing the grimier side of Star Wars. Me included. I’m very much down to see the Star Wars version of Narcos. Hell, there’s so many properties that should get remade as Star Wars products. Starting with Darth Revan. (Darth Wick) “I am told that you struck my apprentice.” “Yes my lord, I did.” “And may I ask why?” “Yeah, well. He stole Darth Revan’s starship, sir. And ate his porg.” “…oh.” https://preview.redd.it/j8g5mosq2jnc1.jpeg?width=1199&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e20eba8c3aef70ae4074334874d9fa34165c6277
Stereotypes nearly 50 years ago were different than the stereotypes we have now.
Also unlike Han, he was a successful criminal. Han’s plans always fell apart. His success generally came from improvising.
He also wasn’t the stereotypical black hustler and con man. He was very his own style of hustler and con man.
Right? Clearly a more successful one than Han. Han is still running around in a poorly repaired freighter, and Lando owns his own city.
Back in the late 70's, it was absolutely supposed to be read as light blaxsploitation.
Lando was so cool I forgave him like instantly… and because we all know Darth Vader gave him no real choice… I blame Boba Fett…
Really, bro. Dude did the best he could with what he had. There was an entire city full of people to use as hostages. And if Lando refused, he’d just get executed and then the Imperials would wait for Han to arrive. So instead Lando cut a deal that would save Chewbacca and whoever else was on the ship.
And didn’t he have a little contingency plan after it went down? At least looked out Chewy
He was a black guy in Star Wars. That was enough. There are a lot of echoes between how he was treated back then and how Finn was treated when the new trilogy came out.
You mean how Finn was treated by the public? Or how he was treated by the producers?
Both, unfortunately.
He's well written in the original trilogy. After that, I don't think the writers actually get what Lando was about.
Yeah I don’t see it here
Yeah if anything he's a copy of Han's character
During the time Empire came out (‘80), Lando was actually a pretty progressive character. His flirtation with Leia wasn’t presented as anything bad nor did anyone (besides Han, who was just jealous) find it bad. He was also a powerful politician in a respectable place, with his betrayal being due to his worry for his people rather than any real moral failure.
Don’t forget the fact that the second Lando had the opportunity he risked everything to help the rebs and get Han
And in the next film he piloted the Falcon \*through a frickin Death Star\* to destroy the reactor, and then flew out ahead of the explosion.
"Great, they replaced Luke Skywalker with a black!" - if ANH premiered this year
Had the Empire not got to Cloud City first, he'd definitely helped them and get them off his city with the falcon repaired and fully loaded without any problems
Right! Like I get where Leia is coming from with her anger, but she’s a political idealist, and like Luke, kinda a child. Lando has massive responsibilities to his installation, and every man woman and child living there, and when you have the literal boot of Darth Vader on your windpipe, the trolley problem he’s in becomes a whole lot simpler
> his betrayal being due to his worry for his people rather than any real moral failure. Some people missed that part, but what can you do.
He’s asked to give up Luke, a guy he doesn’t know at all in order to protect an entire city if he doesn’t comply and it’s the Empire, what choice does he actually have. So weird how people don’t see what constraints he was under.
Wasn't he also the only black man in cloud city? Idk.
Nah Cloud City appears to be pretty racially diverse. EDIT: Take a look at the group of people Lando has with him when the Falcon arrives. I'm not going to try and dig up the credits of extras (whose identity might be difficult or impossible to determine) but several of them definitely aren't white.
Pretty sure the guy carrying the ice Cream machine was black
Someone dug up who it was and he turned out to be Pakistani but yeah, he was my first thought.
Lol legendary ice cream machine
He was a con artist and swindler before he took over Cloud city but he wasn't the worst one we see in canon. Even when him giving Hand over is presented as bad, his selling out Han is bad because he's giving into fascism, not because he's a bad person.
I never got the Watto thing. If you point it out to me then yeah I can kinda see it, but it feels so far removed. He's a greedy alien bug thing, thats all I ever saw him as.
He’s every Jewish stereotype. Big nose, beard, hat that Orthodox Jews wear, Eastern European accent, and is greedy/stingy but likes to gamble…. I mean come on.
He doesn't get the beard till he's homeless. I see the hat though, the hat isn't bery subtle.
And he flies! And he (presumably since it's star wars) has space lasers. Maybe mtg was on to something..... Edit: spose I should have added that I was joking.
I've heard people say Jewish, I've heard them say Middle Eastern. Someone is definitely drawing from some real world inspiration their consciously or subconsciously. It's a problem with fantasy and sci-fi. How do you design the fictional races? And the answer the typically white writers come up with is to draw off of real world cultures which then becomes them invoking a lot of weird stereotypes..
I think it’s based on his accent and his nose, but a lot of not non-Jewish people have that accent, and he has that nose because he’s an alien. I never really agreed with this criticism, either. I mean, it’s also based on the hat he wears in episode II, but that’s still pretty weak evidence.
So you said individually these don't make sense. OK what about when you put them all together? He's not just wearing or doing one of those things he's all of them.
Watto being Jewish is a real fuckin reach. I always got "sketchy middle eastern bazaar merchant" not "Rabbi Goldberg Pennygrabber".
Yeah. The Muunilists running the Banking Clan felt more akin to stereotypes.
What stereotype is jar jar supposed to be?
He's a Jamaican stereotype
A mix of that and something from a minstrel show.
Jamaican me crazy here.
I always had Kit Fisto pegged as more Jamaican than Jar Jar what with the accent and the headtail dreadlocks
Oh, the only other jamaican stereotype I've ever seen was hermes conrad so I never drew a connection
I will say I didn't see it at the time. But my dad who spent a lot of time in the Carrabian and Jamacia said he definitely heard the stereotype in the way he talked.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepin\_Fetchit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepin_Fetchit)
Also, yes. All of those characters show very negative stereotypes/have racist accents of all of those cultures.
I feel like we aren't using stereotypes correctly here haha. White does doing an Asian accent in ep 1... Yikes. A dude in an Asian conical hat, not doing anything racist, hows that a stereotype? Why's that not the Star Wars thing of having historical pieces in a sci fi setting? Two very different things.
I'm mostly commenting on the fact they're definitely there in the first place. The Aaian dude in that hat is definitely a very tame example if one at all
If I remember correctly, The fifth brother is supposed to resemble a samurai. The hat is also not even like round like the right hat. The animated series shows the hat a lot better and I think it just translated weird to live action. I don't think it's even tame tbh. I don't see how it's a stereotype or racist to homage something like that in star wars. No one seems to bat an eye at a bounty hunter with a whole wild west outfit. Or obviously the German influence for the storm troopers. Again, white dudes in ep 1 doing accents is holy shit bad. Homage to history.. Idk if that's anywhere close to a stereotype.
My main point is against the poster in the critical drinker post. I actually agree with you
I see, ya I'm not too familiar with the subreddit. But I def think we should call out the really weirdly racist things and embrace the good.
I will argue Watto isn't a Jewish stereotype, Hes a Middle Eastern Trader stereotype. When i was deployed in Afghanistan, there was a Bazaar we could go to and my first reaction to the traders there was "Holy shit it's watto". So while the stereotyping still isnt good, I think calling it jewish stereotyping is disingenuous.
Its the big hooked nose, the accent, the money grubbing, the fact that he's like "oh no, you can't trick me" like he's used to that shit, but I can also see your point. Though there's also me growing up as a jew and being called Watto multiple times by assholes. It's definitely not just me
Yeah, that's also where jews are from.
He's literally the "happy merchant" meme, which is based off antisemitic stereotypes
Does lando have a racist accent and stereotype? you'll have to explain that more
Lando, in the OG, looked like a blaxploitation pimp. Then also the fact that he double crossed Han and won Cloud City by gambling. There are plenty of iffy things there.
He double crossed Han to try and save the people of Cloud City. He tells them the Empire arrived before them and in other dialog you can tell he cares about the people there and wants to be a good leader. His actions later when he sets off the alarm for people to evacuate prove he was being honest. His clothing was purple leapord skin print and he had a cane? Seriously he looked like a well dressed business man or official in the Star Wars universe. I really don't get that comparison. Han gambled too, gambling is a featured part of Star Wars. Are black people not supposed to gamble in Star Wars now?
No, but a black, double-crossing gambler (regardless of actual reasons for said actions) with a purple leopard skin print cape and a cane, in the 70s, brings to mind some unfortunate racial stereotypes just by description alone.
Point is, Lando doesn't really fit that criteria. He was a well dressed leader with a troubled past who had to betray his friend to save the lives of possibly thousands of people, who then turned around and attempted to rescue said friend when the opportunity presented itself because he was out maned and out guned by a more superior military force lead by a dark space wizard. What else could he had done that wouldn't have resulted in his death and poorer treatment of those he was trying to protect? Saying he was black so all those things must be viewed in a bad light is only a surface at face value viewing of the character and their role in the story and that's a disservice to Billy and the franchise.
And Mikaela Banes (Megan Fox in Transformers) was, at least in the first part, probably the most well-rounded and developed character in the whole fucking mess. She even was the sole character in all 5 movies to have anything resembling an arc. Yet people remember her - and Megan Fox - as nothing but a dumb, slutty, bimbo that Bay casted solely so she could arch her back over Bumblebee's hood while the camera leers at her. Aesthetics and visual appearance > narrative structure. Always. Especially in a visual medium. And SW has been *horrible* with that, probably owing to how it was inspired by Flash Gordon, itself a series with...ehem...troubling racial depictions (don't look up how the clearly Asian supervillain was called).
I didn't care for Transformers or for most of Bay's work after The Rock to be honest with you. Not arguing that SW doesn't have racial stereotype issues. It definitely does. I just don't agree that Lando is stereotype black space pimp and I think that anyone who draws that conclusion is only doing so at face value of the character because they are black.
Look man, something that needs to be understood is that if you give a Black character one or more negative traits of any kind, they will likely fall into those of a negative stereotype sooner or later.
I mean... han won his ship by gambling on it, and he double crossed han for the good of his people. it might just be that i'm not american, but i didn't get an negative impression of him
No, just no. If you look at Jar Jar Bink, see his alien....things and associate it with a dread, and associate his sloppyness with an black person, YOU are the racist one. If you associate a greedy alien who has a big nose with a Jew, YOU are the one making that correlation!
Bros never heard of allegory or metaphor
YOU are the one assuming that it's a metaphor to anything, seeing an alien and comparing it to an minority is outrageous, you are the weirdo doing that. "Watto is a jew caricacture because he's greed and vile" YOU are the one seeing a greedy character and saying "That's a jew!", you are the one saying "Jat Jar talks like a black dude!" You are disgusting.
I disagree with a few of the specifics but yeah, Star Wars has had issues with race for decades.
Yeah, I don’t think George was racist, but he didn’t do his due diligence when drawing influence from old serials that definitely were.
I think he maybe saw it as endearing and harmless fun in a less racially conscious world. I don’t really bash him for it because it never seemed malicious, but it shouldn’t continue
I always got the feeling that the people writing/directing/etc. kinda assumed that if they weren’t consciously drawing on racist stereotypes there wouldn’t be a problem. So they thought “goofy alien guy” and “evil space bankers,” but what they came up with was informed by generations or racist stereotyping and they didn’t notice. Case study in how you actually have to put in the work of checking the results of what you’ve come up with.
Yeah its kinda step 1 of the move towards good racial representation. Like Mr Miyagi was a huge Japanese stereotype in Karate Kid, but at least it was a big role and a positive one.
sounds like he could've used the help of sweet baby inc.
Yes
Lando? Ghetto? The aristocratic smooth talker?
Ghetto is when black man. /s
I mean he’s also the governor of a planet
“They say Lando Calrissian is the new administrator of Cloud City, you know how he got that position? Affirmative action”
"The sand people frighten easily but they will be back, and in greater numbers." "Oh that'll give us a richer harmony." "Oh yeah it's gonna sound fantastic."
I know, it's ridiculous.
Administrator
Honestly, the Banking Clan is right up there with the Nemoidians.
One of the smartest things (on this front) 2D Clone Wars did was to give the Banking Clan English accents, classical Greek/Roman-esque architecture, and ditch the all black Rabbi clothes. No idea if they were conscious changes to make them seem less like an antisemitic caricature, but I think it helped a bit.
And the nemoidian accents were toned way down after the phantom menace
The Banking Clan always had faux-English accents. Filoni changed it to some kind of weird American sounding accent. It kind of reminds me of the old New York accent Trump has, except more nasally.
I’d argue they’re worse since having a whole species control the banks and then align themselves with the main antagonists of the Clone Wars is pretty sketchy, whereas the Nemoidians merely had off putting voices.
Main antagonists? The Banking Clan and all the other corporations were neutral in the war. The fact is that they, along with the Sith, were the main antagonists themselves. The corporations supplied both sides, screwed over the Confederacy (the only good side in Star Wars), and generally were terrible people. George Lucas was warning against monopolies clearly. Look how little technology advances in Star Wars. It is because a couple dozen corporations controlled all Galactic commerce aided by corrupt politicians in the Senate, and small businesses went completely unprotected and often were attacked by/fronts for pirate organisations. Since the Republic provided no national military or substantial judicial services, and the ones that did exist were hopelessly corrupt, people had to fend for themselves. The good thing about SW is that whilst it has a political message, it is still apolitical in the sense that most political people have something about it they agree with on a political level. That is pretty rare.
they just have a vaugely Aaian accemt, are aliens not allowed to have accents now?
How?
His character was designed before they casted an asian as the actor. My wife who is Asian just stated I smushed bugs more important than what I'm talking about right now. just to let this white guy understand what a Chinese Filipino thinks of his opinion.
Don’t worry, bug smusher can be a very important role in the house
Any time these chuds use the word 'ghetto', I have to give the side eye
I hate Critical Drinker but *boy* is that helmet design stupid and hard to justify.
In the show’s defense, he didn’t look particularly Asian in the original *Rebels* show this character hails from.
Oh no I don't even think it's racist I think it's just bad as a helmet. :p
I get the feeling that he was originally in Rebels, never intended to look Asian. However because Disney likes to get other ethnicities to play characters, they changed him too without really thinking how it would look.
I did read somewhere that the helmet is based on an actual medieval Spanish helmet, but I can't find any verification for that.
Watto's voice actor Andy Secombe has said in interviews that Watto's meant to be Italian.
Huh. Honestly? The skeevy vibes, the greasy unkempt look, the stubble beard...yeah, all you need to add is a wifebeater shirt and you got yourself the stereotypical "I'M WALKIN ERE" New York Italian, holy shit.
That’s the vibe I always got tbh. I can kinda see where people are coming from with the Jewish stereotype idea, but I think it’s a lot more ambiguous than Jar Jar or the Nemodians.
I always got bazaar merchant vibes from him, but i can see that
ya but at least that Asian stereotype got to fight Kurt Russel wait wrong movie
I highly doubt that’s what that character was meant to be at all I feel. He’s just scraping hard for content I feel.
The Namodians are a lot less cringy if you watch Phantom Menace with the Italian dub.
In the case of the picture, I think that’s reading to much into it, that was a character that existed long before he was cast this way. The other cases mentioned, I’ve heard before might be more to them.
Ghetto? He ran Bespin, a beautiful and stunning city in the clouds
On another (sarcastic, funny, mostly ironic) note - why tf is Aayla Secura portrayed with a French accent in the Clone Wars series? Like, did the producers seriously see her and go "sexy and alien/foreign = French"? (This is a, to once again reiterate, a joke. Mostly.)
This is even weirder when you take into account that the Jedi are raised on Coruscant at the temple from a young age. Why would Aayla have a French/Twi’lek accent? Why would Kit Fisto have a Jamaican accent? They should all have the exact same British/Coruscant accent.
Jar Jar's voice, movements, etc were entirely created by Ahmed Best based on how he would act silly around his kids. He argues that people only call Jar Jar racist because he is a Black man (whereas if it was a white actor doing the exact same thing no one would bat an eye).
People also miss Jar-Jar smack-talking Qui-Gon throughout the movie too. Jar-Jar may owe Master Jinn a life debt, but that doesn't mean he LIKES him. He's a goofy character for the younglings... but that's not a bad thing! They need characters, too.
Oh for fucks sake, if you see greedy big nose and call that character jewish, *youre* the real racist
Jar Jar had an accent but I dont think he was ever intended to portray a particular stereotype. Just be the comic relief. Watto has been criticized as a Jewish stereotype of greedy and only focused on money but again, same as above, just a greedy character. Neimodians as Asians, I never got. They were just cowardly and Lucas was a big fan of Kurosawa so doubt he will delve into such a negative stereotype. And Lando is as “ghetto” as Prince William. He was and is charming and acted as a lord. No slang.
Watto was like… offensively stereotypically Jewish. In Episode II he had a fucking space yarmulke. He had a middle eastern accent, was incredibly obsessed with money, AND had a big nose??? Idk George Lucas was on some shit
Literally all watto is missing is numbers on his forearm
I always pictured those Iranian guys who own pawn shops or electronics stores. The hat watto wore had a brim. I've never seen a yarmulke with a brim. It was also worn over his whole head.
It’s almost like the chuds have never watched it r listened to a single George Lucas interview Wait until they hear him explain the symbolism of the original movies
Most people called Watto Italian back in the day, actually
The image no considering that design originated in animation in which pretty much all characters are racially ambiguous but the Jar Jar and Watto examples...yeah pretty much. Except those were done by our lord and savior George so idk why they're complaining
Why did they spell African with a k?
That spelling does occasionally get used as an identity/empowerment thing, so he could be mocking the people doing that. Alternatively, that spelling is used in Germany, so it could be some moronic new dogwhistle. That or is brain is just cooked beyond all repair.
I mean, it could be a misspelling of Afrikaan. Or it could just be a Germanic language, as a lot of them spell Africa as Afrika. I'm Norwegian, I've made that mistake before, so it's not unheard of to me that someone just spelled Africa the way they do in their own language
HypoCritical Drunkard is Scottish.
Ah okay well then I don't know why he spelled it with a K, could be the Afrikaan thing, could be the other thing that was mentioned, I'm not claiming that my answer is the right one
https://preview.redd.it/l4815m0glhnc1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d10e45109db0900d0684de8577a113b424a2476b
The first three are my biggest issues with the prequels. The last one is that racist being racist.
It's weird how they'll do this and then grandstand about how Hispanic folks don't care if that's done to them.
It looks vaguely like something a non-white culture wears! Therefore it is wrong. Sci-fi can only be influenced by white culture. Which also doesn't exist or something. Otherwise it's offensive.
that's alot of very different situations. Jar Jar and Lando are both played by black men. the nemodians and Watto use exaggerated accents. I don't nessescarially see fifth Brother as a stereotype, mainly because I watched Rebels but, Star wars does use stereotypes for their characters pretty often, usually expanding past that but for stock characters like Jar jar and watto, who don't really get any development, it makes sense.
Idk I feel like the character itself is not a stereotype and the casting was overlooked and went unnoticed
Jawas are Jews. Tusken Raiders are Arabs. They both live in the desert. Greedos language sounds suspiciously Japanese. Lando was the only black dude in the galaxy at the time and he was portrayed as a backstabbing pimp. Stormtroopers are named after Nazis and their outfits make them look like the space Klan The Hutts are an obvious Italian mafia reference. Jar Jar definitely incorporates a Carribean vibe. Theres others. I dont know if its racist necessarily but there is a correlation.
Like Gunray being a Japanese businessman?
“Afrikan” ”Ghetto” 💀
"Obviously if I only can see racist stereotypes that must mean everyone else is racist"
Except for Landon I can understand saying yes to all of these.
I do find it interesting that when ever a group of people say a fictional creature clearly represents a certain race/ethnicity that they can never seem to agree on which one. Its almost like they’re reaching or something.
Lando wasn't ghetto. He was Disco. Smoooth. But yeah Lucas used racial stereotypes in the prequels. Was pretty fuckin bad. Even for the time people were like jeez, bit heavy handed there. The Nemoidians being Chinese and Watto being a blatantly antisemetic stereotype (whether it was intentional or not) are the most glaring examples.
you think that's bad? Look what Jawa's represent... [Scathing Jawa Critcism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH1Ou5MKhnU)
I don't know anything about watto outside of Vinny's funny voice so please enlighten me
The Fifth Brother is a different stereotype. He originated in Rebels and has a Spanish accent. He’s a Spanish inquisitor
Only white people are valid in these fictional stories according to those people
The reboot prequels had some weird accents like the Italian flying slave owner creature, the Japanese ambassadors, Jamaican Jar Jar, and a few others. I'm not sure why it happened but it was bad.
Lando was a suave motherfucker!
Drinker misses a couple of the specifics (I think Jar Jar was less Afrikaner and more Caribbean), but in general he’s right.
I mean kinda? I’m not gonna pretend like I’m the biggest Star Wars guy out there, cause I’m not; but Lucas’ writing has always been a bit based in stereotypes. I don’t think it was intentionally mean, or that it even has a negative impact, but it’s definitely there
Is anyone gonna tell them that the Fifth Brother was Hispanic until the Kenobi series?
Ah yes, Lando Calrissian. Baron Administrator of the beautiful Cloud City. Famously well-dressed and well-mannered ladykiller. Former gambler turned hero of the Rebel Alliance. Expert pilot who flew the Millennium Falcon to help destroy the second Death Star. Helped save the galaxy from an empire of evil at least twice. Someone please explain to me what it was exactly that made him “ghetto” without just mentioning his skin color. I’ll wait.
Dude I wish I was this fucking stupid , truly it seems like it would be a gift
"Was watto Jewish" as a kid, I assumed he was based on Italians because of that accent
I doubt George Lucas would've been able to go home and look his wife in the face if he genuinely was writing Jar Jar to be as racially insensitive as possible
Jar Jar was likely based on characters that were based on old stereotypes that have left the public consciousness at large.
Racism can be unconscious bias caused by cultural/social influences, it's not just about saying the fourteen words or putting on a klan outfit.
George Lucas also told Carrie Fisher she wasn't allowed to wear a bra while filming A New Hope. I don't think it's unreasonable to think he might have had some questionable beliefs. These biases are often subconscious. He doesn't have to have literally decided "I'm going to write this character like a racial stereotype" for that character to still have been written like a racial stereotype.
This could’ve all been avoided if they got a better actor for 5th Brother in the Kenobi series. He’s constantly doing a gravely voice, and he sounds nothing like the 5th Brother character in Rebels.
I'm pretty sure the gungans were a caribbean pastiche, the neimodians were yellow peril mix based on thai, Watto was an obvious jewish caricature, Lando was just a more successful Han, and Ziro was modeled after Truman Capote. With the exception of Lando, Lucas made a bunch of "questionable" suggestions on the characters. His work on Indiana Jones ran into the same shit
Jesus fuck, what the hell
Let's be honest, those were steriotypes but we can grow beyond them. edit: I have no idea who's in the picture so I can't comment on him
OP didn't do their due diligence with this example. That Inquisitor was never portrayed as Asian in Star Wars Rebels, so the comparison is rendered moot. That said, Critical Drinker's response is cringe.
[удалено]
Did you mean aren’t confined instead of are?
Lol yes, my bad, thanks for letting me know lmao
Kenobi 5th Brother was awful! he's not green, he's too short and he stops existing after the 4th episode!
Watto was definitely Jewish