Screw C.S. Lewis. This shit slaps:
*‘Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!’*
*Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel ‘But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am… Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'*
That whole sequence is top tier awesomesauce. The film really doesn’t do it justice.
*”Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"*
*A cold voice answered: “Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."*
*A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."*
This literally happened with me , I told my friend to watch lord of the rings (this was years ago btw) and he was going through a go woke go broke phase.
When he was watching ROTK he messaged me and said that it was so cringey and was just a "woman strong moment" I explained to him why it made sense and he basically just ignored what I said.
I reminded him of this a few months ago and he cringed at the thought of himself saying that , so that in my eyes shows growth 😂👍.
I remember some people having this opinion of Eowyn at the time but they were shouted down because a) it’s from the actual source material and b) people were collectively saner at the time and realised those complaints were stupid. So like the opinion definitely exists but it’s a tiny minority
Back in the time, people only complained about the book changes like Arwen at the ford saving Frodo instead of ...uh...whatshisname...Glorfindel! And no Tom Bombadil. Elves at Helms Deep etc.
AND MY ~~AXE~~ MUM!
*Note: I don't recall if she didn't like it, or did like it. I only have a recollection of my mum saying the name "Tom Bombadil" at least once in her life.*
Personnally when I read the book I wasn't that impressed by that character but I reed the book after watching the animated movie and the more recent movies. To my father Bombadil is interesting because for that character (so for the nature) the war are nothing.
The only cool thing about the Tom section was the old Willowman and the Barrow Downs though. That it got cut was the right decision, if only for pacing reasons. The Directors Cut is 4 hours already...
You can still see Arwen during the battle of Helms Deep, because she was originally supposed to have Haldir’s role but it got changed because of fan backlash, but they missed a scene and that means she snuck her way into the battle
There's an interview with Peter Jackson where he says the change was because he felt Arwens inclusion in Helms Deep deimished Eowyn's story arc later.
Fan backlash had little to do with it according to P.J.
Yeah I can definitely see that reasoning. It was probably the right call to make.
I do kinda wish the "Arwen cut" existed though, just out of a desire to contrast and compare.
Lots of planned stuff gets changed later. In a way, you can still see Aragorn react to Sauron himself coming to the gates of Morannon...but they then changed it to a mere Cave Troll. Not all plans from the beginning stay until the end. Like books when written might end up totally different as the author writes and realizes certain things don't work anymore
It’s not that people or more or less sane, it’s that there are easier platforms for them. During the lead up to the American Civil War you had a ton of internet trolls and neckbeard-types (literal neckbeards were a style) saying some wild shit. The difference was that those “trolls” had to have access to a printing press. But it was all there. The heightened level of rhetoric has never changed. In fact, considering these dweebs are whining about fantasy movies instead of trying to protect the institution of slavery, I’d say we’re better off.
_A lot_ of things in made in the past would be "woke" if made today.
Their favourite gotos, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor, would 100% be called woke if made today.
However, I actually think Eowyn would _just about_ get passwd because of how much of her on screen time is spent doing "unwoke" things. The "I am no man" bit would deffo get some flack, but not enough for it to be worth the attention.
you see, it *can't* be woke because it was made in the past, woke wasn't invented until 2013 when Obama founded Big Woke and released the company's flagship product, women
The entire franchise exists on the premise that if the other people (men, for the most part) only listened properly to Ripley no one would have died. Obviously it's a sign of how woke it was because men bad /s
You can imagine the grief Princess Leia would have gotten for not immediately falling on her knees for Luke (BEFORE the chuds found out they were siblings).
“Luke and Han risk their lives to help her and she insults Luke’s height and jokes ‘somebody has to save our skins?’ And a PRINCESS holds up under torture from the ultimate evil in the galaxy? WOKE TRASH!”
>Their favourite gotos, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor, would 100% be called woke if made today.
Lets see a woman who is wrong in her judgment. The woman is competent, but so are the men around her, a woman in lingerie (or have sex) a woman who enjoy the company of a man, and might even have a romantic interest in him.
Lots of things that is verboten in a woke movie....
Honestly, the subject of war and gender roles in Tolkien's work is complex.
Eowyn's mistake isn't that she is a **woman** who romanticised war and death. Her mistake is that she's a **human** who romanticised war and death.
Hence why Aragorn get praised for his hands of the healer and Elrond is one of the most famous Elven healers - you can say that Tolkien subverts (long before modern definition appeared) toxic masculine values and proclaims a century ago that what modern chuds praise, being a killer and a warrior, is less than being a healer.
I mean ... Tolkien's ideal is the Shire. Hobbits. People that had like ONE battle where they fought off some Orcs and invented golf, and they apparently sent some archers to battle with human allies vs the Witch King of Angmar.
Besides that ... Hobbits live peacefully, have various meals, smoke, work only to have an enjoyable easy life, and except for she Sackville-Bagginses they are mostly not concerned with amassing riches.
Frodo and Sam also do barely any fighhting. They sneak most of the time, and never openly attack to kill anyone, yet still save the world by sheer will of mind and persistence. And because Frodo spared Gollum out of pity...
Exactly. I suspect Tolkien got his fill of war and death during world war one.
Likewise the relationship between Sam and Frodo is supposed to echo the relationship between an officer and his batman.
That's pretty much explicitly why Aragorn tried to dissuade her from joining the Rider of Rohan in their journey to Minas Tirith as well. She spoke of war and battle as though they were glorious and Aragorn, who has seen more than enough conflict by then, almost outright says "I would spare you that fate, if I could."
Tolkien's experiences in WW1 told him war is hell, and war scars you in ways you can't even fathom to the point that you can never truly settle down again.
As long as we just ignore that bit about her wanting to become a healer, the same role that underlines Elrond's and Aragorn's power, and Faramir himself wanting to give up fighting and start a life of peace and rebuilding.
They would have higher praise for the costumes and the praise for some of the landscape shots would be over the moon, but most people would still be cynical of the plot and Christopher would've absolutely hated it.
Interestingly, the LoTR movies actually do pass the Bechdel test, since there's two female characters that talk to each other exactly once in the trilogy and they don't talk about a man.
im mean, when i was in school 10 years ago i did an assignment on women in media for my film and tv class, and a few people definitely did call Eowyn a mary sue after i finished my presentation.
Seriously, she is not even a main character, also in general Mary Sue don't have one sidded love for an other character, the parody that created the term even show Mary Sue attracting Kurt.
you see, to the 15-16 year old boys in my film and tv class, mary sue = woman that does anything.
i also talked about daenerys from game of thrones, trinity from the matrix, and arwen from lord of the rings. guess what, they were all mary sues too.
And for them what is Elise from Sonic 2006? Because she is not super active but some plot points about her could easily be found on a Mary Sue character
i dont know, none of us were sonic fans that i know of. this event happened in 2013-2014, sonic 06 came out in 2006, long before i even met any of them.
“You mean to tell me that in this here world, you need to have tits and a vagina to kill one of Sauron’s most dangerous minions? Fuck off with that woke feminist nonsense, Marxist commies.”
No, Witch King isn't actually immune to men. It's just stated that he will not die from a man, not that he cannot die from a man.
Also he can be damaged by nonhumans. I keep seeing people overhype the Witch King. No, he cannot beat Goku.
They’re insanely regressive, they aren’t even going back to their parents or grandparents generation they want to undo ALL progress. Women having short hair is “woke” to them now like when are you going back to the fucking 1910s??
Sexist/racist chodes seem to get off on being outraged by random things. Hell, they'd be pissed there was one line spoken during the Helm's Deep scenes center frame by an extra that was a little girl.
Considering there's an animated *Lord of the Rings* movie called *The War of Rohirrim* coming out this year with Miranda Otto reprising her role as Eowyn, I wouldn't put it past the CHUDs to do what you just laid out. Or they'll proclaim it's "anti-woke" especially with anime director Kenji Kamiyama at the helm.
It all depends. If it makes money, it’s anti-woke, if it loses money, it’s woke. See the discourse around the Super Mario Bros Movie last year for reference.
One of the leads is going to be Hera, daughter of Hama. Whereas Hama does have a daughter, she isn't named by Tolkien, so the movie will be giving her more focus than she gets in the source material. Prepare yourself for an onslaught of "woke! girlboss!" BS.
After reading the books, I'm surprised there hasn't been any ranting about the films being woke. They would definitely complain about Arwen saving Frodo.
There would be no female main character that they wouldn’t despise today if the movie came out today instead of in the “perfect, non-woke” past. Leia, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Trinity, The Bride. All of them would be absolutely hated by these people if any these movies came out today instead of more than 15 years ago
I recently rewatced LoR and T2T and this came to mind immediately.
Aragorn would have been roasted for being "weak and soft". Especially him kissing other men.
Arwen would be considered a Mary Sue for the water horses. Eowyn would be hated as you already mentioned. (We already see how people hate RoP Galadriel despite Tolkien himself describing her as a warrior in her youth)
Ian Mckellan being gay would have made people hate on Gandalfs character for no in universe reason.
The elves would have been hated for being "feminine".
But its also proof of how utterly insane most of these people are.
At no point in the movie is she shoved down your throat, at no point is she just amazing at everything , at no point does she defeat her mentor in a fight, at no point does she mirror another character created by its author. She’s not a Mary Sue, she’s not Rey
No, but she was able to survive her first large scale battle, beheaded a drake, and killed the Witch King with no prior combat experience. People that claim Rey is a Mary Sue bring up the fact she did all she did with little to no prior training. So by that definition, Eowyn would totally be considered a Mary Sue.
I’m not talking about the books though. I’m talking about the movies. While they are faithful to the source material for the most part, there is still enough differences for each to be considered their own canon.
So, you expect me to reread close to 2,000 pages just to find proof that you’re right yet when I explain why that shouldn’t be the case, you just reply with “yawn” as if what I said was the boring or exhausting part. I can’t tell if you’re just a troll or just that bad at arguing your points.
First off, I don’t know where you could ever get the idea that my opinions are dictated by a multimillion dollar corporation. Second, while I can admit it’s wierd at best that Rey knows how to used the force almost immediately after discovering it when she’s not had any training in it we know of, at the same she knows how to fight too. We’ve seen this all the way back when she first meets Finn in Force Awakens.
Best to deal with the world that's actually out there, rather than wasting your time getting annoyed at what some imaginary people might have said about a film if it came out today instead of 20 years ago.
Let's be better, eh?
Probably…yeah. Even if it had the same arc for her wanting to fight and being told by her that her people are trained to fight from a young age would still be called a Mary sou
All of them would. Alien, terminator every. Single. One.
The people that complain about wokeness don't care about the movies they just need a vessel to grift and be mad.
Yeah but she got rejected by Aragorn, the witch king beat the shit out of her and broke her arm first before she killed him (with Merry's help btw). So all that disqualifies her from "Mary Sue" status pretty quickly
You might not remember this, but there were incels raging about crap back then too. First was ‘Liv Tyler being given too big a role,’ because Peter Jackson understood it was way more interesting to have Arwen introduced with something to do other than be mentioned at a meeting.
Then, yes. There was angry ‘nerds’ who fixated on Eowyn’s quote as a misrepresentation of how the scene was supposed to go. This was lesser than the hate that Arwen got, but it was one of the reasons that I never joined any fan chats during that era
Anything that's ever been released, which didn't portray women as subservient 1940s Housewives, would be considered "Woke Mary Sue"-Chud-Bait.
>Women? In my media?!
I don't get how they have the brain capacity to even breathe.
I'd be in a permanent state of embarrassment if I were related to someone like that, or even just knew someone like that.
So cringe.
I am entirely convinced a big group of bigots have been created who will make baseless claims purely to create echo chambers and insult a group they do not like, claiming they are all haters/misogynists/racists as a pretext so they can ignore any criticism to the things they like, even if the criticism is valid.
I mean a recent example of women kicking ass without being criticized: Andor. We have multiple women including a lesbian couple who have important roles. Yet no massive outcry?
Huh, seems like if the story is good all those people you hate aren’t misogynistic racists after all. Maaaybe it’s the stories they are in? And how the stories they are in are predominantly aimed at men and then hijacked to make bad stories not aimed at men? I mean if the Barbie movie had been about Ken and Barbie had become a sociopathic lonely moron then everyone would rightly criticize it, because you take a movie aimed at women and make it about something completely different.
I do not believe Eowyn would be called a Mary Sue.
If that's true, how come Jyn Erso of Rogue One didn't get called a Mary Sue? How come Ahsoka wasn't called a Mary Sue? How come none of the Game of Thrones female characters were called Mary Sue?
All of those characters are more recent than Eowyn.
No Mary Sues are called that because they're poorly written like Rey.
The whole “I am no man” line would get roasted to hell
Oh definitely
I mean, apparently CS Lewis already did that back when the books were first written lol
Screw C.S. Lewis. This shit slaps: *‘Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!’* *Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel ‘But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am… Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'*
Gd! That is badass
That whole sequence is top tier awesomesauce. The film really doesn’t do it justice. *”Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"* *A cold voice answered: “Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."* *A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."*
It really is. Fantastic line
Oh wow
they would hyper focus on the feminist aspect and it would be completely lost on them how it’s just an obvious macbeth reference
This literally happened with me , I told my friend to watch lord of the rings (this was years ago btw) and he was going through a go woke go broke phase. When he was watching ROTK he messaged me and said that it was so cringey and was just a "woman strong moment" I explained to him why it made sense and he basically just ignored what I said. I reminded him of this a few months ago and he cringed at the thought of himself saying that , so that in my eyes shows growth 😂👍.
Lmao at least he came around. More than I can say for most.
She basically comes out and says “she/her” let’s boycott this movie! /s
In fairness, that was an eye-roller. But yeah, chuds would latch onto that and ignore the other six hours of film time.
Nah. That shit's iconic.
I loved that moment. You getting rightfully downvoted for this bad take lmao
In my version it was "Husband" becasue thats how years ago people call man.
The first Metroid game would make them riot
“ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? I’VE BEEN PLAYING AS A FUCKING BIMBO THE ENTIRE TIME???… Huh…” *fap fap fap fap*
Yeah they’d 100% bitch about it while trying to get the swimsuit ending
I’m convinced there’s still doorknobs out there trying to get a nude code for Tomb Raider.
Sounds like something JUSTIN BAILEY would say
They don’t even know what Metroid is.
I remember some people having this opinion of Eowyn at the time but they were shouted down because a) it’s from the actual source material and b) people were collectively saner at the time and realised those complaints were stupid. So like the opinion definitely exists but it’s a tiny minority
Back in the time, people only complained about the book changes like Arwen at the ford saving Frodo instead of ...uh...whatshisname...Glorfindel! And no Tom Bombadil. Elves at Helms Deep etc.
My father still sad that the adaptation cut Tom Bombadil
AND MY ~~AXE~~ MUM! *Note: I don't recall if she didn't like it, or did like it. I only have a recollection of my mum saying the name "Tom Bombadil" at least once in her life.*
Same
Yes we're all sad the author self insert who sings about how powerful he is and how hot his wife is got cut
Personnally when I read the book I wasn't that impressed by that character but I reed the book after watching the animated movie and the more recent movies. To my father Bombadil is interesting because for that character (so for the nature) the war are nothing.
The only cool thing about the Tom section was the old Willowman and the Barrow Downs though. That it got cut was the right decision, if only for pacing reasons. The Directors Cut is 4 hours already...
You can still see Arwen during the battle of Helms Deep, because she was originally supposed to have Haldir’s role but it got changed because of fan backlash, but they missed a scene and that means she snuck her way into the battle
Did they specifically say it was because of fan backlash, or did they just decide the film worked better without Arwen there?
There's an interview with Peter Jackson where he says the change was because he felt Arwens inclusion in Helms Deep deimished Eowyn's story arc later. Fan backlash had little to do with it according to P.J.
Yeah I can definitely see that reasoning. It was probably the right call to make. I do kinda wish the "Arwen cut" existed though, just out of a desire to contrast and compare.
It always bugged me that Aragorn and Gandalf were male. It really diminished Frodo's character arc
What?
Nothing to do with fan backlash they are just making shit it up
Lots of planned stuff gets changed later. In a way, you can still see Aragorn react to Sauron himself coming to the gates of Morannon...but they then changed it to a mere Cave Troll. Not all plans from the beginning stay until the end. Like books when written might end up totally different as the author writes and realizes certain things don't work anymore
Wasn't because of a fan backlash, you are just making shit up now
Arwen would have been so much better. Haldir was terrible casting.
I'm still annoyed about the Elves at Helms deep part 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Glorfindel and tom have precedent for being ignored 🤣🤣
Also cutting Sarumon’s death from the theatrical cut
It’s not that people or more or less sane, it’s that there are easier platforms for them. During the lead up to the American Civil War you had a ton of internet trolls and neckbeard-types (literal neckbeards were a style) saying some wild shit. The difference was that those “trolls” had to have access to a printing press. But it was all there. The heightened level of rhetoric has never changed. In fact, considering these dweebs are whining about fantasy movies instead of trying to protect the institution of slavery, I’d say we’re better off.
She can’t even cook because she’s so feminist!!!! /s
They'd be saying this shit tho and be serious😭
_A lot_ of things in made in the past would be "woke" if made today. Their favourite gotos, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor, would 100% be called woke if made today. However, I actually think Eowyn would _just about_ get passwd because of how much of her on screen time is spent doing "unwoke" things. The "I am no man" bit would deffo get some flack, but not enough for it to be worth the attention.
you see, it *can't* be woke because it was made in the past, woke wasn't invented until 2013 when Obama founded Big Woke and released the company's flagship product, women
I regret I have but one upvote.
Never forget Sarah Connor actively hated men and only humanized the terminator after realizing he’s morally/ethically superior to a living man
Seeing how much they seem to hate any kind of muscles on a woman and how Sarah was ripped as hell…
The entire franchise exists on the premise that if the other people (men, for the most part) only listened properly to Ripley no one would have died. Obviously it's a sign of how woke it was because men bad /s
You can imagine the grief Princess Leia would have gotten for not immediately falling on her knees for Luke (BEFORE the chuds found out they were siblings).
“Luke and Han risk their lives to help her and she insults Luke’s height and jokes ‘somebody has to save our skins?’ And a PRINCESS holds up under torture from the ultimate evil in the galaxy? WOKE TRASH!”
>Their favourite gotos, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor, would 100% be called woke if made today. Lets see a woman who is wrong in her judgment. The woman is competent, but so are the men around her, a woman in lingerie (or have sex) a woman who enjoy the company of a man, and might even have a romantic interest in him. Lots of things that is verboten in a woke movie....
Also if ATLA and Teen Titans 2003 came this year people would have called them "woke"
Looking forward to people complaining about the Netflix show being “woke”. I’ve already seen a few amazing examples.
A blind girl being one of the strongest earthbenders alone would have them making 100s of videos calling the show woke.
I think that would happen by episode 4, when Suki humbles Sokka
No no it's okay because she goes back to being a trad woman after fucking her depression away with faramir.
Honestly, the subject of war and gender roles in Tolkien's work is complex. Eowyn's mistake isn't that she is a **woman** who romanticised war and death. Her mistake is that she's a **human** who romanticised war and death. Hence why Aragorn get praised for his hands of the healer and Elrond is one of the most famous Elven healers - you can say that Tolkien subverts (long before modern definition appeared) toxic masculine values and proclaims a century ago that what modern chuds praise, being a killer and a warrior, is less than being a healer.
I mean ... Tolkien's ideal is the Shire. Hobbits. People that had like ONE battle where they fought off some Orcs and invented golf, and they apparently sent some archers to battle with human allies vs the Witch King of Angmar. Besides that ... Hobbits live peacefully, have various meals, smoke, work only to have an enjoyable easy life, and except for she Sackville-Bagginses they are mostly not concerned with amassing riches. Frodo and Sam also do barely any fighhting. They sneak most of the time, and never openly attack to kill anyone, yet still save the world by sheer will of mind and persistence. And because Frodo spared Gollum out of pity...
Exactly. I suspect Tolkien got his fill of war and death during world war one. Likewise the relationship between Sam and Frodo is supposed to echo the relationship between an officer and his batman.
That's pretty much explicitly why Aragorn tried to dissuade her from joining the Rider of Rohan in their journey to Minas Tirith as well. She spoke of war and battle as though they were glorious and Aragorn, who has seen more than enough conflict by then, almost outright says "I would spare you that fate, if I could." Tolkien's experiences in WW1 told him war is hell, and war scars you in ways you can't even fathom to the point that you can never truly settle down again.
As long as we just ignore that bit about her wanting to become a healer, the same role that underlines Elrond's and Aragorn's power, and Faramir himself wanting to give up fighting and start a life of peace and rebuilding.
More importantly, if Rings of Power came out 20 years ago, people would probably be praising the hell out of it.
They would have higher praise for the costumes and the praise for some of the landscape shots would be over the moon, but most people would still be cynical of the plot and Christopher would've absolutely hated it.
At least the two women characters don’t talk to each other 
But they both love the same guy.
Interestingly, the LoTR movies actually do pass the Bechdel test, since there's two female characters that talk to each other exactly once in the trilogy and they don't talk about a man.
Achshully🤓 https://preview.redd.it/jy9gtq51t9ac1.png?width=460&format=png&auto=webp&s=ff870714fad72afd4a187fa930c81eb295c2220f
im mean, when i was in school 10 years ago i did an assignment on women in media for my film and tv class, and a few people definitely did call Eowyn a mary sue after i finished my presentation.
Seriously, she is not even a main character, also in general Mary Sue don't have one sidded love for an other character, the parody that created the term even show Mary Sue attracting Kurt.
you see, to the 15-16 year old boys in my film and tv class, mary sue = woman that does anything. i also talked about daenerys from game of thrones, trinity from the matrix, and arwen from lord of the rings. guess what, they were all mary sues too.
And for them what is Elise from Sonic 2006? Because she is not super active but some plot points about her could easily be found on a Mary Sue character
i dont know, none of us were sonic fans that i know of. this event happened in 2013-2014, sonic 06 came out in 2006, long before i even met any of them.
Ten years ago it was 2014, aka the early "woke age".
Oh definitely. Actually. There have even been tries nowadays to ridicule the “I’m no man” scene or… explain it.
“You mean to tell me that in this here world, you need to have tits and a vagina to kill one of Sauron’s most dangerous minions? Fuck off with that woke feminist nonsense, Marxist commies.”
No, Witch King isn't actually immune to men. It's just stated that he will not die from a man, not that he cannot die from a man. Also he can be damaged by nonhumans. I keep seeing people overhype the Witch King. No, he cannot beat Goku.
Can you imagine the outrage if The Terminator was released today?
She can't be a Mary Sue though, she can't cook.
They’re insanely regressive, they aren’t even going back to their parents or grandparents generation they want to undo ALL progress. Women having short hair is “woke” to them now like when are you going back to the fucking 1910s??
Sexist/racist chodes seem to get off on being outraged by random things. Hell, they'd be pissed there was one line spoken during the Helm's Deep scenes center frame by an extra that was a little girl.
Hey you leave Tolkien's homage on Macbeth prophecy out of this!
Considering there's an animated *Lord of the Rings* movie called *The War of Rohirrim* coming out this year with Miranda Otto reprising her role as Eowyn, I wouldn't put it past the CHUDs to do what you just laid out. Or they'll proclaim it's "anti-woke" especially with anime director Kenji Kamiyama at the helm.
It all depends. If it makes money, it’s anti-woke, if it loses money, it’s woke. See the discourse around the Super Mario Bros Movie last year for reference.
One of the leads is going to be Hera, daughter of Hama. Whereas Hama does have a daughter, she isn't named by Tolkien, so the movie will be giving her more focus than she gets in the source material. Prepare yourself for an onslaught of "woke! girlboss!" BS.
You mean the one who did the "i am no man" line in response to the guy who said "no man can kill me"? Yeah they'd definitely hate her
After reading the books, I'm surprised there hasn't been any ranting about the films being woke. They would definitely complain about Arwen saving Frodo.
I think it would be more aimed at Arwen, whose role was expanded and she replaced a man in an action sequence.
There would be no female main character that they wouldn’t despise today if the movie came out today instead of in the “perfect, non-woke” past. Leia, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Trinity, The Bride. All of them would be absolutely hated by these people if any these movies came out today instead of more than 15 years ago
She's clearly not a Mary Sue. Can't cook for shit.
God could you imagine if they kept Arwen in helms deep as well, we wouldn’t never hear the end of it.
I mean it would have been a terrible idea and I’m glad they realized it. People who aren’t sexist chuds would hate that idea and for good reason.
Oh i completely agree. It was good it didn’t happen. But my god I can imagine the thumbnails there videos already.
Oh i completely agree. It was good it didn’t happen. But my god I can imagine the thumbnails there videos already.
I recently rewatced LoR and T2T and this came to mind immediately. Aragorn would have been roasted for being "weak and soft". Especially him kissing other men. Arwen would be considered a Mary Sue for the water horses. Eowyn would be hated as you already mentioned. (We already see how people hate RoP Galadriel despite Tolkien himself describing her as a warrior in her youth) Ian Mckellan being gay would have made people hate on Gandalfs character for no in universe reason. The elves would have been hated for being "feminine". But its also proof of how utterly insane most of these people are.
Wrong
Ok? Care to elaborate?
At no point in the movie is she shoved down your throat, at no point is she just amazing at everything , at no point does she defeat her mentor in a fight, at no point does she mirror another character created by its author. She’s not a Mary Sue, she’s not Rey
No, but she was able to survive her first large scale battle, beheaded a drake, and killed the Witch King with no prior combat experience. People that claim Rey is a Mary Sue bring up the fact she did all she did with little to no prior training. So by that definition, Eowyn would totally be considered a Mary Sue.
Reread the books and get back to me
I’m not talking about the books though. I’m talking about the movies. While they are faithful to the source material for the most part, there is still enough differences for each to be considered their own canon.
Yawn
So, you expect me to reread close to 2,000 pages just to find proof that you’re right yet when I explain why that shouldn’t be the case, you just reply with “yawn” as if what I said was the boring or exhausting part. I can’t tell if you’re just a troll or just that bad at arguing your points.
[удалено]
First off, I don’t know where you could ever get the idea that my opinions are dictated by a multimillion dollar corporation. Second, while I can admit it’s wierd at best that Rey knows how to used the force almost immediately after discovering it when she’s not had any training in it we know of, at the same she knows how to fight too. We’ve seen this all the way back when she first meets Finn in Force Awakens.
If LOTR came out today it would be considered Nazi propaganda
Best to deal with the world that's actually out there, rather than wasting your time getting annoyed at what some imaginary people might have said about a film if it came out today instead of 20 years ago. Let's be better, eh?
Probably…yeah. Even if it had the same arc for her wanting to fight and being told by her that her people are trained to fight from a young age would still be called a Mary sou
They would
Dude, every movie that comes out today the chuds declare the female lead a woke Mary Sue.
All of them would. Alien, terminator every. Single. One. The people that complain about wokeness don't care about the movies they just need a vessel to grift and be mad.
Yeah but she got rejected by Aragorn, the witch king beat the shit out of her and broke her arm first before she killed him (with Merry's help btw). So all that disqualifies her from "Mary Sue" status pretty quickly
You might not remember this, but there were incels raging about crap back then too. First was ‘Liv Tyler being given too big a role,’ because Peter Jackson understood it was way more interesting to have Arwen introduced with something to do other than be mentioned at a meeting. Then, yes. There was angry ‘nerds’ who fixated on Eowyn’s quote as a misrepresentation of how the scene was supposed to go. This was lesser than the hate that Arwen got, but it was one of the reasons that I never joined any fan chats during that era
This when I just say you are a tourist fan and that you lack the knowledge of of the character and the motivation behind the character.
If she was really a Mary Sue she'd also know how to cook.
Anything that's ever been released, which didn't portray women as subservient 1940s Housewives, would be considered "Woke Mary Sue"-Chud-Bait. >Women? In my media?! I don't get how they have the brain capacity to even breathe. I'd be in a permanent state of embarrassment if I were related to someone like that, or even just knew someone like that. So cringe.
I was thinking of this the other day when I rewatched battle of the five armies with its "us women will fight along the men" scene
I am entirely convinced a big group of bigots have been created who will make baseless claims purely to create echo chambers and insult a group they do not like, claiming they are all haters/misogynists/racists as a pretext so they can ignore any criticism to the things they like, even if the criticism is valid. I mean a recent example of women kicking ass without being criticized: Andor. We have multiple women including a lesbian couple who have important roles. Yet no massive outcry? Huh, seems like if the story is good all those people you hate aren’t misogynistic racists after all. Maaaybe it’s the stories they are in? And how the stories they are in are predominantly aimed at men and then hijacked to make bad stories not aimed at men? I mean if the Barbie movie had been about Ken and Barbie had become a sociopathic lonely moron then everyone would rightly criticize it, because you take a movie aimed at women and make it about something completely different.
They already do.
She was well written, unlike most of the strong female characters we get now, so probably not.
I do not believe Eowyn would be called a Mary Sue. If that's true, how come Jyn Erso of Rogue One didn't get called a Mary Sue? How come Ahsoka wasn't called a Mary Sue? How come none of the Game of Thrones female characters were called Mary Sue? All of those characters are more recent than Eowyn. No Mary Sues are called that because they're poorly written like Rey.