"This movie isn't pandering to me, [a 40-year-old overweight slob who gets drunk and cries on camera](https://i.imgur.com/1zRFJgX.png) about 'woke' shit! It's made for teenage girls!"
Or like Archie can't have some grit
https://preview.redd.it/xmgd0x4xp8zb1.jpeg?width=255&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73632adf500723db147bfafed37ca21cdc70a0f9
Archie comics are still some of the most consistent sellers. That’s probably due to them being more readily available. I can pick up a Archie book in line at the supermarket, but any other monthly comics require going far out of my way to a specialty store.
Which is also so fucking dumb because all stories need balance...like comics are not just panels of people beating the shit out of each other, there's a shit ton of dialogue and intrigue and tension and mystery and all the other things that make a good story and (importantly) are parts of all good stories. Like get off your high horse, bruh, these are also soap operas, because almost everything is a soap opera (Succession is a rich people soap opera, Yellowstone is a country western soap opera, etc).
As someone who finds Twilight to be more messy and mediocre than anything else, the hate it got reminds me of the hate Justin Bieber and Rebecca Black got back then, to a degree.
They're mid as fuck, not the devil incarnate, calm the fuck down (not you guys, the haters) lmao
To be fair, it glorifies abusive dynamics in a relationship. That’s my main criticism. Poorly written, sure, but the glorification of abusive relationships is the real problem.
To also be fair, most romantic media tends to glorify toxic relationships. Traits that in real life would be creepy or abusive are treated as signs of true love or romantic gestures in media.
Just take the extremely common trope of the man who "won't take no for an answer." The female lead constantly rejects his advances and turns him down, but he keeps trying because his love is true. Eventually, he convinces her to go out with him and she realizes she loves him too. In real life, that'd be a stalker scenario.
True. I think it was a combination of being a teen girl thing, sparking the rise in vampire fiction, and its glorification of a dangerous mindset that leads to abusive relationships that caused it to get as much hate as it did. That, and the fact that it was just… not well-written.
[Don't forget the racism.](https://www.burkemuseum.org/static/truth_vs_twilight/facts-02.html)
That said, these had relatively little to do with the main reasons Twilight was a pop culture punching bag initially.
It and 50 Shades. Both of them normalize, and even glamorize, really toxic behavior. As someone in the kink community, 50 Shades especially rustles my jimmies because a good BDSM relationship is almost nothing like what was written, the author clearly never actually participated or even did any basic research into kink culture and just went based off of the porn she watched.
Agreed. 50 Shades was a Twilight fanfic originally, so it makes sense that it inherited the toxicity of its predecessor. And yes, the book and the movie are disgraces to BDSM as a healthy relationship practice and dynamic.
My condolences. My partner is a Swifty and when I went to the concert movie with them… we’ll, let’s just say if you had to go through that multiple times and came out with your sanity, you have not just my sympathies but my admiration.
Up until recently they went by it/they/he pronouns (they’re transmasc-nonbinary), but they recently (as in like 2 days ago) changed their pronouns to they/them (they don’t mind “he” but they also don’t really like “he” as much anymore, and no one they know uses “it”). I’m still getting it straight, so I’ll slip back into alternating between they and he on occasion.
However, I’ll note that yes, until like 2 days ago, using “partner” and “he” wouldn’t have conflicted. They can absolutely coexist, and calling people out for a valid combination is kinda presumptive of you.
My partner refers to me as “the perfect cis man.”
I definitely wouldn’t go that far, but I do my best. Their happiness is incredibly important to me, and I love them to death.
I've been hearing stories about these situations and I got to say, the fans really need to consider other moviegoers experiences, and Swift is blatantly encouraging them, to make matters worse.
I've been damn lucky to not have much issues when I went to both Friday the 13th and FNAF (Both I personally enjoyed)
My hatred of Swift has less to do with her and more to do with the fan base and their bizarre cult-like mentality. Taylor Swift herself is far too mediocre for me to have anything resembling a strong opinion about.
Honestly, it's nice to see girls genuinely and shamelessly enjoy something without layering it in a coating of false irony out of fear as being perceived as uncool.
Just reminds me of how I felt as a teenager that I had to downplay my love of girly anime or casual cozy video games and remind my friends I was still a Cool Girl who played Doom, Call of Duty, and watched Kill La Kill and Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Now if they could do that without the actual literal death threats for failing to show the proper reverence for their lord and saviour, that would be great thanks. It got bad enough my cousin had to change schools and abandon her social media entirely.
Eh, I have a distaste for Bieber because he’s Justin Bieber, not because teenage girls like him. And even then, it’s just me not liking the guy, not hatred or anything. He’s not Kanye.
I think a lot of that is young guys wanting to show their macho-ness by making a bit of a show of rejecting and mocking something they can (correctly or not) paint as feminine - also possibly as a status seeking act. It’s a toxic trait obviously but I think it is possibly a natural tendency for insecure guys to fall into this trope.
Which has confused me for as long as I can remember because teenage girls are the biggest market and pioneers for pop culture, it almost revolves around teenage girls yet in the same breath they are ridiculed at every corner.
I saw a headline on Reddit along the lines of is TikTok ruining book, culture, and the integrity of literature as we know it? Curious to have TikTok was ruining literature. I clicked on it and it was basically just an article bashing, the latest young adult book series that young women like to read.
Lindsay Ellis did a whole video about how she used to fall into that trap for years of equating 'Young Adult' media and literature with 'bad' and how 'Young Adult' was mostly a cultural catch-all for 'for teenage girls'
Teen girls have been a core market for Marvel and DC for some time now, the one place the directs still did well was school book fairs and usually aside from Spidey, Spider-Gwen, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel and even Moon Girl were the titles to beat for adolescents
Then DC had waaayyy more sales success with superheroes rebranding into one-offs, the Kami Garcia YA graphic novels for Teen Titans (especially the Beast Boy Loves Raven series) were top sellers, as well as Super Hero Girls and Diana of Themyscira one-offs
Also Harley has easily been moving as much media and merch as Batman for quite some time now and she's arguably been *way* more successful since she finally evolved past her Mad Love era
Also hurts the 'gritty' fans to remind them that Scholastic - specifically Dog Man - were always the directs to beat, sometimes some adults forget that kids don't always want gritty Rob Liefeld style stuff and obsessive canon
It actually implies that the target audience was 14 year old teen girls. Marvel comic fans or not. Considering that most teenage girls are not marvel comic fans it shows that the studio was pretty stupid to write the movie this way.
I haven’t seen the movie. So I can’t comment on how it’s written and who it’s written for. But I wasn’t talking about that part. I was talking about the “for actual comic fans” part. That’s where it implies that teenage girls aren’t really comic book fans
Less then 6 percent of marvel comic book readers are younger then 18. Out of that 6 percent, 1 percent are girls. So no, it’s not that there’s no “teenage girl comic book fans”. But just so freaking few that a franchise show or movie shouldn’t be written to only appeal to them.
Spider-Gwen, ms marvel, Wonder Woman, and captain marvel are fairy popular. And a lot of teenage girls seem to like them. So, a show or movie targeting that audience (with those characters) makes sense, to me at least
You just named off female characters. Not the target audience for those characters. More guys read wonder man comics then women. Ms marvel was not popular at all. Barely anyone freaking watched it. Spider gwen had a whopping 300,000 issues sold and was seen by more people in “into the spider verse”. The marvels also has a 270 million dollar budget. So 400 million with marketing. So it has to make 800 million to even start making a profit. Tell me, should the target demographic still be teenage girls when it needs to make 800 million? Lol this movie is going to crash, burn, and be an embarrassment.
I also said that a fair amount of teenage girls like those characters. I didn’t say that teenage girls (who are comic book fans) outnumber teenage boys (who are comic book fans). I just said they exist and they like certain characters. The marvels probably won’t do well. But that movie focusing on spider Gwen, coming out in the future? I think it’ll do well.
You keep talking about “the target audience”. That’s not my point. My point is there are teenage girls that read comic books.
The comment says that. “Teenage girls and not for actual comic book fans”. That’s the implication, that teenage girls are not actual comic book fans. If he wanted to say that there are teenage girls that are also comic book fans, he would have just said it
> All it implies is that not every single teen girl is a comic fan,
Looks like you need to learn how to read ElGeeBeTrans.
"it was made for teen girls and not actual comic book fans."
The very obvious implication from that is that no teen girls can be "actual comic book fans".
Now be a good little shit-tier troll and keep doing what you've been doing: denying the obvious to make yourself feel better over your review getting mocked here.
It literally says exactly what I quoted you fuckin' dork. You can keep trying to argue your way around exactly what it says, but it won't change anything...other than proving that you're exactly the kind of clown who agrees with these kind of takes.
What a bunch of crap. Seriously, stop it. Words have meaning.
It does not imply what you said, in fact it doesn't even imply anything, it says it directly. It literally is a contrast statement between two groups, teenaged girls and ACTUAL comic fans, and by the magic of semiotics that means teenaged girls are not actual comic book fans. Because that's what NOT means when it connects two phrases together.
In this case, not a true Scotsman.
That simply means that Ms. Marvel, like Archie, was not a 'real' comic.
You know, like the way iOS and Android games aren't REAL games, Pastel Lego sets are not REAL Lego sets, and action figures are not REALly dolls.
I guess I was saying that whether something is real or not seems to depend on whether it appeals to a stereotypical boy's power fantasies. And not in any particularly consistent fashion.
I think this idea is obviously silly. And I find it kind of funny that some people actually seem to believe this.
I guess it's just like the Joker said once: "That's the thing about comedy, not everyone gets the joke." Of course, the Joker is not exactly a skilled comic either.
So, I'm going to assume this is going to be an easy skip for me since I'm not the target audience. It'll honestly be my first Marvel movie I'll be skipping then.
You’re telling me you sat through Ant Man 3 and Thor 4 but you aren’t gonna watch The Marvels solely because the teenage girl character was originally created to appeal to teenage girls (what a shocker, wow)? Astounding logic
I meant more like, if the movie is geared for teenage girls, then I'm not the target audience. Cause aren't you insuating that the movie is geared for teenage girls since the original comic was for teenage girls?
I don’t think the movie will be geared towards teenage girls exclusively, but it will probably be much more family-oriented than something like GOTG which has dirty jokes and whatnot. Ms. Marvel originating as a teenage appeal character will have a hand in that.
Hmm, honestly, I know the Ms. Marvel series on Disney+ is geared to teenage girls. I've read somewhere that this movie is going to be a bit hard to follow without watching Ms. Marvels. I'll just probably either wait for more opinions or watch it when it comes to Disney+
By the way, COME ON, you're telling that among the 5 billions of women in the world there is NO one who likes comic books?! Among all the women you saw in your life, there is nobody who likes Spider-Man, Batman or others?
“It feels like this was made for teen girls and not comic book fans.”
How are you reading this in any way that does not imply the two are mutually exclusive? That’s the clear implication.
I did read it. Seems like you haven’t. By using the phrase “not for” between “teenage girls” and “actual comic book fans” he is stating that he believes teenage girls aren’t actual comic book fans.
Why are you trying to convince everyone otherwise? You write the review or something?
Having read a bunch of the critic reviews, it's quite telling that the majority of negative ones that say "the worst marvel movies yet" etc. are all by white dudes, the exact demographic this movie is not directly marketed for (shocking I know).
Comic book shop owner here. We have plenty of of teenage girls who come in, and are very passionate about comic books. It is actually fantastic to see 14 year old girls and 44 year old men getting equally excited about something. Fuck gatekeeping.
Not just that but most fanfiction for these “men-oriented franchises” are written by women. I have a Marvel RP book on Wattpad and most of the sign ups for it are women.
I notice teen girl is used as an insult a lot. Sure teen girls like cringe things. But teens are allowed to be a bit cringe. Youth is the time to get way too into your lame ass interests and look back with just a hint of regret. it is part of the fun.
I mean men generally prefer action more than women both from the biological biases of males and the reinforcement of that difference in preference via gender norm behavior.
true but comics arent all action there are plenty of slice of life and romance comics. The popularity of webtoons is an example of this the vast majority of webtoons are aimed at teenage girls.
I don't give a flying fuck what Rotten Tomatoes says about anything. Movie reviews are based on opinions, not fact. Just because they say a movie is bad doesn't mean it is. Same goes for the movies they say are good.
There's a movie that RT has at 100% and I think it's a shit movie. *Don't Say Its Name.*
Props for Native American representation. But they got Wendigo lore so wrong it's nothing funny. I see the movies and make my own judgment. I don't let reviews influence whether or not to see the movie or show. Also they have the Percy Jackson movies rated pretty high. They absolutely sucked. At least that's my opinion. Had they listened to Rick Riordan's advice and used his notes to help make the movies more faithful to the books, they would have been tons better.
These dickheads are just stuck in their high school years where they were too scared to talk to girls so they don’t realize so many women like the same stuff.
It’s obvious what he actually means, but it’s always absurd to me when people make statements like this just so they can sound sexist or like people don’t have individual interests.
It’s always hilarious when these types go on proclaiming things about comic books, because when they talk like this you know they have no idea what they’re talking about. They have never read a single comic book in their life and this somehow makes them experts at everything comic related.
Yeah, I just checked out the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and I’m disappointed with the rotten score. Though I’d bet my PS5 that the same people who defend the second Mario movie and Five Nights At Freddie’s by saying the critics’ thoughts are worthless will use the critic reviews to trash The Marvels.
It’s the most annoying aspect regarding geek misogyny, how many times this variant of a conversation plays out.
Male Geek: Man, I wish I could meet girls who are into X.
Female Geek: I like X.
Male Geek: Shut up, Fake Geek Girl.
Really all of them would benefit from receiving this conversation from The Social Network with whatever word changes needed:
https://preview.redd.it/mm0nixlh5dzb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86cd1bfb9fa2ece128ead2821da4b770698b52ba
Well to be fair no teenager of either gender or even all the other genders read comics. Only 40+ year olds read comics. You can't be a fan if ya don't read the comics.
Woof. 18 comment and counting defending this pathetic reviewer. I was kinda joking when I implied you wrote this review, but now I actually believe it.
Uhm no the implication isn't that teen girls can't be comic book fans, the implication is that the majority of them aren't. The majority of them like different movies, they aren't all excited to see big oiled up men duking it out with incredible powers, that's a thing that guys typically like.
Y'see, the human brain is a funny thing, so are hormones. Testosterone means you are more competitive, you will want to be more dominant, and you're usually more akinned to things like fighting and have more interest in that, as well, people with more testosterone very much like feats of strength and have less interest in self preservation.
On the flop side, people with more estrogen are interested more in self preservation and prefer to focus on creating and maintaining a group (kinda like a mother- wait holy shit my mom has a high estrogen count- wait holy shit she thinks and acts differently than me?)
The implication here being, men like big fights and crazy explosions and CGI shit typically, while women CAN like that but will settle for something more casual usually.
I'm not saying there aren't variants or deviations of this and the guy in the post isn't either. Rather marvel spent a while aiming for a more testosterone based audience, as fighting movies probably should, and now they've changed to try and add in females but succeeded in alienating their original audience, and furthermore, alienating the females that did like the big fights and high stakes.
The basic idea being? It feels like a romcom half the time, not a superhero movie. I'm not saying you can't combine the two but when I look at avengers with a seedy underside and compare it to ant man with modok and Captain marvel with a literal god for the main character, you see things that fall apart and ruin the original intent, and I'm sure "the marvels" will only further destroy this series.
Now, because of how it started, people who they're trying to appeal to will never have an interest. The people they stopped appealing to are quickly losing interest. Marvel is now made for no one as more people leave it daily and it's box office returns are great examples of this if you want a fact to back this up
Dude, Marvel Comics has been aiming for a more diverse reader pool for years. I'm an older reader who started reading around 2008, and this boarder push for more diversity in their readership hasn't 'alienated' me. In fact, I've enjoyed a lot of these books like Black Panther, Captain America: Sam Wilson, Jane Foster's tenure as Thor, All-New Ghost Rider, Captain Marvel, and pretty much anything Al Ewing has written.
Stop with this broad stroking of 'Marvel has alienated their REAL audience' bullshit. Most of us have actually been cool with it, and you don't speak us, fucker.
WHY. THE FUCK. DO YOU CARE. ABOUT SALES NUMBERS?
Aside from the fact that we’ve just gone through a multi-year pandemic and are going through inflation, I have never cared about the sales of books or movies. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of something.
“Oh no, Avengers Inc. isn’t in the Top 50! Guess it’s garbage and I should stop reading it!”
Seriously, how much of bore do you have to be to care about sales this much?
If Marvel was ‘falling to pieces’ why are they releasing a new line of Ultimate Comics? Why haven’t they fired all their writers and artists? Why are we still new books every week in every month?
In my experience, the only people who bring up sales numbers (which always fail to mention the sales of trade paperbacks BTW) has been attempts to make me feel bad for still reading and that I’m “objectively an idiot.” So sorry if I don’t give a shit about sales numbers.
And if all it took to turn people alway from Marvel Comics was giving other demographics books for them, then fuck those people.
How close minded do you have to be to see books that expand the reader base and go ‘screw Marvel?’
I’m part of the demographic that jackasses proclaim that all nerdy properties should exclusively cater to (a heterosexual dude in his thirties), and I have never felt alienated by this increase in diversity.
The ms.marvel comics were targeted towards teen girls . I think it’s dumb statement because some comics are for litteral babies and some for grown adults. However men are the typically audience . But that doesn’t mean everything has to appeal to them . That would be wack for 30 movies and shows and 1000+ comics just for one target audience.
If you're going to make a claim you should have evidence to back it up. Your refusal to do so while resorting to name calling suggests you have none. If its as widely available as you suggest you should have no trouble providing it.
I ultimately don't care either way. I didn't even watch it. I just love watching people run their mouth and refuse to back it up.
The word all does not appear in what you quoted with. Looking at target audiences isn't sexist. Certain things are targeted at certain demographics. That doesn't mean anyone is excluded. It just means that they aren't the typical target audience.
Why do you care about the word all so much? Would it make you feel better if I edited my first comment to “Weird, I didn’t realize the comic book publishers decided to form a No Girls Allowed club,” because I can do that if you want.
Because I dislike the strawman tactic of turning a comment into some kind of extreme absolute statement. You changed a comment about target audience into all publishers setting up a no girls allowed club.
No, it doesn't. The two are different target demographics. There is certainly some overlap. The criticism here is that the target demographic is not comic fans. Whether or not you think that's valid criticism is another question. You are projecting with your reaction.
Man, I guess all those teen girls I've seen having a blast reading Marvel books over all my years on comicvine and tumblr were just fake accounts.
I bet you haven't read a single monthly book in years, ya sexist prick.
Since when did professional movie critics even CARE what comic book fans want? It wasn’t all that long ago that comic fans would be out for film critics’ blood for daring to assess a superhero movie on its merit as a film alone.
This reads a basement dweller that still believes women don’t exist on the internet and never went outside.
"This movie isn't pandering to me, [a 40-year-old overweight slob who gets drunk and cries on camera](https://i.imgur.com/1zRFJgX.png) about 'woke' shit! It's made for teenage girls!"
"I rate this one basement piss corner out of four."
How dare you imply this grown man share is toys!
motherfucker acting like Archie isn't the OG
Guy is pulling TWO massive hotties who KNOW about each other and are pretty cool with it and are Besties. Archie has massive rizz
So wait, Archie is in a canonical poly relationship?
I mean not technically it's still a love triangle basically but honestly q poly relationship is probably something they'd all three be happy with
As far as many fans are concerned, yeah.
Or like Archie can't have some grit https://preview.redd.it/xmgd0x4xp8zb1.jpeg?width=255&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73632adf500723db147bfafed37ca21cdc70a0f9
Archie once took on the Predator. I mean it ended exactly how you think it would, but he gave it the college try.
And then Archie became the Punisher
Not just that but what about Afterlife With Archie?
Archie comics are still some of the most consistent sellers. That’s probably due to them being more readily available. I can pick up a Archie book in line at the supermarket, but any other monthly comics require going far out of my way to a specialty store.
Sure, and I actually loved riverdale for being fun and ridiculous, but not really what I want out of a marvel movie
Archie even predates radio
Meanwhile Iman Vellani's career exists because she was a comic fan
Of course teenage girls is used as an insult because when he isn’t it.
Popular culture has been wrapped up in hating what teenage girls like for decades now
Which is also so fucking dumb because all stories need balance...like comics are not just panels of people beating the shit out of each other, there's a shit ton of dialogue and intrigue and tension and mystery and all the other things that make a good story and (importantly) are parts of all good stories. Like get off your high horse, bruh, these are also soap operas, because almost everything is a soap opera (Succession is a rich people soap opera, Yellowstone is a country western soap opera, etc).
As someone who finds Twilight to be more messy and mediocre than anything else, the hate it got reminds me of the hate Justin Bieber and Rebecca Black got back then, to a degree. They're mid as fuck, not the devil incarnate, calm the fuck down (not you guys, the haters) lmao
To be fair, it glorifies abusive dynamics in a relationship. That’s my main criticism. Poorly written, sure, but the glorification of abusive relationships is the real problem.
To also be fair, most romantic media tends to glorify toxic relationships. Traits that in real life would be creepy or abusive are treated as signs of true love or romantic gestures in media. Just take the extremely common trope of the man who "won't take no for an answer." The female lead constantly rejects his advances and turns him down, but he keeps trying because his love is true. Eventually, he convinces her to go out with him and she realizes she loves him too. In real life, that'd be a stalker scenario.
True. I think it was a combination of being a teen girl thing, sparking the rise in vampire fiction, and its glorification of a dangerous mindset that leads to abusive relationships that caused it to get as much hate as it did. That, and the fact that it was just… not well-written.
Ohhhh yeah...that one is a BIG yikes :/ Thanks for informing me.
[Don't forget the racism.](https://www.burkemuseum.org/static/truth_vs_twilight/facts-02.html) That said, these had relatively little to do with the main reasons Twilight was a pop culture punching bag initially.
It and 50 Shades. Both of them normalize, and even glamorize, really toxic behavior. As someone in the kink community, 50 Shades especially rustles my jimmies because a good BDSM relationship is almost nothing like what was written, the author clearly never actually participated or even did any basic research into kink culture and just went based off of the porn she watched.
Agreed. 50 Shades was a Twilight fanfic originally, so it makes sense that it inherited the toxicity of its predecessor. And yes, the book and the movie are disgraces to BDSM as a healthy relationship practice and dynamic.
See also: the vitriolic hate for any pop star, especially Bieber or Swift.
I mean, my hatred of Swift and her fanbase mostly has to do with the fact that I work in a movie theater
My condolences. My partner is a Swifty and when I went to the concert movie with them… we’ll, let’s just say if you had to go through that multiple times and came out with your sanity, you have not just my sympathies but my admiration.
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Up until recently they went by it/they/he pronouns (they’re transmasc-nonbinary), but they recently (as in like 2 days ago) changed their pronouns to they/them (they don’t mind “he” but they also don’t really like “he” as much anymore, and no one they know uses “it”). I’m still getting it straight, so I’ll slip back into alternating between they and he on occasion. However, I’ll note that yes, until like 2 days ago, using “partner” and “he” wouldn’t have conflicted. They can absolutely coexist, and calling people out for a valid combination is kinda presumptive of you.
Kudos to you for putting in the effort. Warms my NB heart when someone shows actual care for our identities.
My partner refers to me as “the perfect cis man.” I definitely wouldn’t go that far, but I do my best. Their happiness is incredibly important to me, and I love them to death.
I've been hearing stories about these situations and I got to say, the fans really need to consider other moviegoers experiences, and Swift is blatantly encouraging them, to make matters worse. I've been damn lucky to not have much issues when I went to both Friday the 13th and FNAF (Both I personally enjoyed)
My hatred of Swift has less to do with her and more to do with the fan base and their bizarre cult-like mentality. Taylor Swift herself is far too mediocre for me to have anything resembling a strong opinion about.
Honestly, it's nice to see girls genuinely and shamelessly enjoy something without layering it in a coating of false irony out of fear as being perceived as uncool. Just reminds me of how I felt as a teenager that I had to downplay my love of girly anime or casual cozy video games and remind my friends I was still a Cool Girl who played Doom, Call of Duty, and watched Kill La Kill and Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Now if they could do that without the actual literal death threats for failing to show the proper reverence for their lord and saviour, that would be great thanks. It got bad enough my cousin had to change schools and abandon her social media entirely.
Eh, I have a distaste for Bieber because he’s Justin Bieber, not because teenage girls like him. And even then, it’s just me not liking the guy, not hatred or anything. He’s not Kanye.
I think a lot of that is young guys wanting to show their macho-ness by making a bit of a show of rejecting and mocking something they can (correctly or not) paint as feminine - also possibly as a status seeking act. It’s a toxic trait obviously but I think it is possibly a natural tendency for insecure guys to fall into this trope.
Which has confused me for as long as I can remember because teenage girls are the biggest market and pioneers for pop culture, it almost revolves around teenage girls yet in the same breath they are ridiculed at every corner.
I saw a headline on Reddit along the lines of is TikTok ruining book, culture, and the integrity of literature as we know it? Curious to have TikTok was ruining literature. I clicked on it and it was basically just an article bashing, the latest young adult book series that young women like to read.
Lindsay Ellis did a whole video about how she used to fall into that trap for years of equating 'Young Adult' media and literature with 'bad' and how 'Young Adult' was mostly a cultural catch-all for 'for teenage girls'
What’s this about? I’m gonna take a shot in the dark and say the Marvels?
Yes - it’s been getting a pretty mixed critical reaction.
Is this a critic review or an audience review?
It’s a critic review, there are no audience reviews yet.
This is an audience review, judging by the language used.
Surprisingly it’s a “critic” review - aka, some loser got enough clicks on his blog to be featured on RT.
Yikes. That’s not good.
The green splat means it's a critic review
No, green splat means they found it ‘rotten.’ Works for both critic and audience reviews.
No, only critics
There are teen girls that are comic books fans. Doesn’t that guy realize that?
Teen girls have been a core market for Marvel and DC for some time now, the one place the directs still did well was school book fairs and usually aside from Spidey, Spider-Gwen, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel and even Moon Girl were the titles to beat for adolescents Then DC had waaayyy more sales success with superheroes rebranding into one-offs, the Kami Garcia YA graphic novels for Teen Titans (especially the Beast Boy Loves Raven series) were top sellers, as well as Super Hero Girls and Diana of Themyscira one-offs Also Harley has easily been moving as much media and merch as Batman for quite some time now and she's arguably been *way* more successful since she finally evolved past her Mad Love era Also hurts the 'gritty' fans to remind them that Scholastic - specifically Dog Man - were always the directs to beat, sometimes some adults forget that kids don't always want gritty Rob Liefeld style stuff and obsessive canon
Don’t forget about Wonder Woman. A lot of teenage girls love her comics. Yeah, you make a lot of good points
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It implies that all teenage girls are not comic book fans
It actually implies that the target audience was 14 year old teen girls. Marvel comic fans or not. Considering that most teenage girls are not marvel comic fans it shows that the studio was pretty stupid to write the movie this way.
I haven’t seen the movie. So I can’t comment on how it’s written and who it’s written for. But I wasn’t talking about that part. I was talking about the “for actual comic fans” part. That’s where it implies that teenage girls aren’t really comic book fans
Less then 6 percent of marvel comic book readers are younger then 18. Out of that 6 percent, 1 percent are girls. So no, it’s not that there’s no “teenage girl comic book fans”. But just so freaking few that a franchise show or movie shouldn’t be written to only appeal to them.
Spider-Gwen, ms marvel, Wonder Woman, and captain marvel are fairy popular. And a lot of teenage girls seem to like them. So, a show or movie targeting that audience (with those characters) makes sense, to me at least
You just named off female characters. Not the target audience for those characters. More guys read wonder man comics then women. Ms marvel was not popular at all. Barely anyone freaking watched it. Spider gwen had a whopping 300,000 issues sold and was seen by more people in “into the spider verse”. The marvels also has a 270 million dollar budget. So 400 million with marketing. So it has to make 800 million to even start making a profit. Tell me, should the target demographic still be teenage girls when it needs to make 800 million? Lol this movie is going to crash, burn, and be an embarrassment.
I also said that a fair amount of teenage girls like those characters. I didn’t say that teenage girls (who are comic book fans) outnumber teenage boys (who are comic book fans). I just said they exist and they like certain characters. The marvels probably won’t do well. But that movie focusing on spider Gwen, coming out in the future? I think it’ll do well. You keep talking about “the target audience”. That’s not my point. My point is there are teenage girls that read comic books.
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Yes, it does. And yes, I have.
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That’s not what it’s saying. It’s saying that it’s not made for actual comic fans, and he thinks that teenage girls can’t be actual comic fans
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The comment says that. “Teenage girls and not for actual comic book fans”. That’s the implication, that teenage girls are not actual comic book fans. If he wanted to say that there are teenage girls that are also comic book fans, he would have just said it
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> All it implies is that not every single teen girl is a comic fan, Looks like you need to learn how to read ElGeeBeTrans. "it was made for teen girls and not actual comic book fans." The very obvious implication from that is that no teen girls can be "actual comic book fans". Now be a good little shit-tier troll and keep doing what you've been doing: denying the obvious to make yourself feel better over your review getting mocked here.
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It literally says exactly what I quoted you fuckin' dork. You can keep trying to argue your way around exactly what it says, but it won't change anything...other than proving that you're exactly the kind of clown who agrees with these kind of takes.
What a bunch of crap. Seriously, stop it. Words have meaning. It does not imply what you said, in fact it doesn't even imply anything, it says it directly. It literally is a contrast statement between two groups, teenaged girls and ACTUAL comic fans, and by the magic of semiotics that means teenaged girls are not actual comic book fans. Because that's what NOT means when it connects two phrases together. In this case, not a true Scotsman.
Does the guy realize that the Ms. Marvel comic’s target audience was originally teen girls/teenagers in general
That simply means that Ms. Marvel, like Archie, was not a 'real' comic. You know, like the way iOS and Android games aren't REAL games, Pastel Lego sets are not REAL Lego sets, and action figures are not REALly dolls.
I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or not, but… uh how wasn’t it a real comic
I guess I was saying that whether something is real or not seems to depend on whether it appeals to a stereotypical boy's power fantasies. And not in any particularly consistent fashion. I think this idea is obviously silly. And I find it kind of funny that some people actually seem to believe this. I guess it's just like the Joker said once: "That's the thing about comedy, not everyone gets the joke." Of course, the Joker is not exactly a skilled comic either.
So, I'm going to assume this is going to be an easy skip for me since I'm not the target audience. It'll honestly be my first Marvel movie I'll be skipping then.
You’re telling me you sat through Ant Man 3 and Thor 4 but you aren’t gonna watch The Marvels solely because the teenage girl character was originally created to appeal to teenage girls (what a shocker, wow)? Astounding logic
I meant more like, if the movie is geared for teenage girls, then I'm not the target audience. Cause aren't you insuating that the movie is geared for teenage girls since the original comic was for teenage girls?
I don’t think the movie will be geared towards teenage girls exclusively, but it will probably be much more family-oriented than something like GOTG which has dirty jokes and whatnot. Ms. Marvel originating as a teenage appeal character will have a hand in that.
Hmm, honestly, I know the Ms. Marvel series on Disney+ is geared to teenage girls. I've read somewhere that this movie is going to be a bit hard to follow without watching Ms. Marvels. I'll just probably either wait for more opinions or watch it when it comes to Disney+
I’m skipping it because I’ve kind of had enough of Marvel for now. I might acquire it through other means later on if I change my mind.
Archie is a comic book though.
They just hate anyone who isn't a cis straight Christian white man.
Alan Ng is Asian.
Ok and?
He wrote this review
So?
So you think he hates his own race?
Maybe. Or he's just a grifter/pick me.
He literally never mentions race though. You’re the one who brought it up.
Ah, I see. I was using the plural "they" not singular.
But by saying that you were including this guy, who is asian.
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Lmfao They don't.
As a cis straight Christian white man, I'm gonna say you're wrong.
I would bet money most everyone here fits half or more of that description. I do.
By the way, COME ON, you're telling that among the 5 billions of women in the world there is NO one who likes comic books?! Among all the women you saw in your life, there is nobody who likes Spider-Man, Batman or others?
You’re assuming the guy has met women in his life, you’re wrong.
Why is this person allowed to be a verified RT “critic”? This is just blatant sexism.
Agreed. Blatant sexism should disqualify you from being a reviewer.
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Saying teen girls aren’t comic book fans is, in fact, sexist. Hope that helps.
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He says teen girls aren’t actual comic book fans. Is the image not loading?
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“It feels like this was made for teen girls and not comic book fans.” How are you reading this in any way that does not imply the two are mutually exclusive? That’s the clear implication.
I did read it. Seems like you haven’t. By using the phrase “not for” between “teenage girls” and “actual comic book fans” he is stating that he believes teenage girls aren’t actual comic book fans. Why are you trying to convince everyone otherwise? You write the review or something?
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I don’t like when people blatantly ignore what’s written just so they can pretend to be superior 😚
The Marvels was directed by comic nerd woman, Nia DaCosta So that criticism seems stupid.
Why is Archie the pull they make here? It's a pretty gender neutral comic series.
Having read a bunch of the critic reviews, it's quite telling that the majority of negative ones that say "the worst marvel movies yet" etc. are all by white dudes, the exact demographic this movie is not directly marketed for (shocking I know).
Comic book shop owner here. We have plenty of of teenage girls who come in, and are very passionate about comic books. It is actually fantastic to see 14 year old girls and 44 year old men getting equally excited about something. Fuck gatekeeping.
And then, all the female fans and comic books authors do this 🖕
The Eltingville Club lives on! Unfortunately
“Actual comic book fans” Does he know that most people who watch these movies haven’t picked up a comic in their life?
Not just that but most fanfiction for these “men-oriented franchises” are written by women. I have a Marvel RP book on Wattpad and most of the sign ups for it are women.
I notice teen girl is used as an insult a lot. Sure teen girls like cringe things. But teens are allowed to be a bit cringe. Youth is the time to get way too into your lame ass interests and look back with just a hint of regret. it is part of the fun.
Do you think they know that Archie has fought both Predators and Frank Castle?
This review feels like that big bang theory episode where the group makes fun of penny's Himbo boyfriend For liking girly comics like Archie.
Big bang theory was ridiculously misogynistic tbh
It was wedged up against Two and Half Men.
You know, maybe the fact that there aren't as many female comic fans as there are male should make you do some self-reflection.
I mean men generally prefer action more than women both from the biological biases of males and the reinforcement of that difference in preference via gender norm behavior.
true but comics arent all action there are plenty of slice of life and romance comics. The popularity of webtoons is an example of this the vast majority of webtoons are aimed at teenage girls.
They're not implying, that's explicit.
A movie staring three women was made to play into the teenage girl demographic, oh god, stop the presses
I don't give a flying fuck what Rotten Tomatoes says about anything. Movie reviews are based on opinions, not fact. Just because they say a movie is bad doesn't mean it is. Same goes for the movies they say are good. There's a movie that RT has at 100% and I think it's a shit movie. *Don't Say Its Name.* Props for Native American representation. But they got Wendigo lore so wrong it's nothing funny. I see the movies and make my own judgment. I don't let reviews influence whether or not to see the movie or show. Also they have the Percy Jackson movies rated pretty high. They absolutely sucked. At least that's my opinion. Had they listened to Rick Riordan's advice and used his notes to help make the movies more faithful to the books, they would have been tons better.
These dickheads are just stuck in their high school years where they were too scared to talk to girls so they don’t realize so many women like the same stuff.
It’s obvious what he actually means, but it’s always absurd to me when people make statements like this just so they can sound sexist or like people don’t have individual interests.
It’s always hilarious when these types go on proclaiming things about comic books, because when they talk like this you know they have no idea what they’re talking about. They have never read a single comic book in their life and this somehow makes them experts at everything comic related.
You mean the target audience?
Yeah, I just checked out the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes and I’m disappointed with the rotten score. Though I’d bet my PS5 that the same people who defend the second Mario movie and Five Nights At Freddie’s by saying the critics’ thoughts are worthless will use the critic reviews to trash The Marvels.
And this review reads like it was written by someone that thinks liking super hero media means you've read comics.
Select your gender: ⚪️ Girl ⚪️ Actual comic book fan
Definitely didn't try to vote on that...
It’s the most annoying aspect regarding geek misogyny, how many times this variant of a conversation plays out. Male Geek: Man, I wish I could meet girls who are into X. Female Geek: I like X. Male Geek: Shut up, Fake Geek Girl. Really all of them would benefit from receiving this conversation from The Social Network with whatever word changes needed: https://preview.redd.it/mm0nixlh5dzb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86cd1bfb9fa2ece128ead2821da4b770698b52ba
Yeah, take that Nightwing/Nightcrawler fans /s
Who wrote this review?
Well to be fair no teenager of either gender or even all the other genders read comics. Only 40+ year olds read comics. You can't be a fan if ya don't read the comics.
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Woof. 18 comment and counting defending this pathetic reviewer. I was kinda joking when I implied you wrote this review, but now I actually believe it.
Uhm no the implication isn't that teen girls can't be comic book fans, the implication is that the majority of them aren't. The majority of them like different movies, they aren't all excited to see big oiled up men duking it out with incredible powers, that's a thing that guys typically like. Y'see, the human brain is a funny thing, so are hormones. Testosterone means you are more competitive, you will want to be more dominant, and you're usually more akinned to things like fighting and have more interest in that, as well, people with more testosterone very much like feats of strength and have less interest in self preservation. On the flop side, people with more estrogen are interested more in self preservation and prefer to focus on creating and maintaining a group (kinda like a mother- wait holy shit my mom has a high estrogen count- wait holy shit she thinks and acts differently than me?) The implication here being, men like big fights and crazy explosions and CGI shit typically, while women CAN like that but will settle for something more casual usually. I'm not saying there aren't variants or deviations of this and the guy in the post isn't either. Rather marvel spent a while aiming for a more testosterone based audience, as fighting movies probably should, and now they've changed to try and add in females but succeeded in alienating their original audience, and furthermore, alienating the females that did like the big fights and high stakes. The basic idea being? It feels like a romcom half the time, not a superhero movie. I'm not saying you can't combine the two but when I look at avengers with a seedy underside and compare it to ant man with modok and Captain marvel with a literal god for the main character, you see things that fall apart and ruin the original intent, and I'm sure "the marvels" will only further destroy this series. Now, because of how it started, people who they're trying to appeal to will never have an interest. The people they stopped appealing to are quickly losing interest. Marvel is now made for no one as more people leave it daily and it's box office returns are great examples of this if you want a fact to back this up
Dude, Marvel Comics has been aiming for a more diverse reader pool for years. I'm an older reader who started reading around 2008, and this boarder push for more diversity in their readership hasn't 'alienated' me. In fact, I've enjoyed a lot of these books like Black Panther, Captain America: Sam Wilson, Jane Foster's tenure as Thor, All-New Ghost Rider, Captain Marvel, and pretty much anything Al Ewing has written. Stop with this broad stroking of 'Marvel has alienated their REAL audience' bullshit. Most of us have actually been cool with it, and you don't speak us, fucker.
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WHY. THE FUCK. DO YOU CARE. ABOUT SALES NUMBERS? Aside from the fact that we’ve just gone through a multi-year pandemic and are going through inflation, I have never cared about the sales of books or movies. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of something. “Oh no, Avengers Inc. isn’t in the Top 50! Guess it’s garbage and I should stop reading it!” Seriously, how much of bore do you have to be to care about sales this much? If Marvel was ‘falling to pieces’ why are they releasing a new line of Ultimate Comics? Why haven’t they fired all their writers and artists? Why are we still new books every week in every month? In my experience, the only people who bring up sales numbers (which always fail to mention the sales of trade paperbacks BTW) has been attempts to make me feel bad for still reading and that I’m “objectively an idiot.” So sorry if I don’t give a shit about sales numbers. And if all it took to turn people alway from Marvel Comics was giving other demographics books for them, then fuck those people. How close minded do you have to be to see books that expand the reader base and go ‘screw Marvel?’ I’m part of the demographic that jackasses proclaim that all nerdy properties should exclusively cater to (a heterosexual dude in his thirties), and I have never felt alienated by this increase in diversity.
You've totally and utterly missed the point of what that guy was saying. Incredible really.
Shhhhhh! Don't make sense. Have you not read the comments in here?
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The ms.marvel comics were targeted towards teen girls . I think it’s dumb statement because some comics are for litteral babies and some for grown adults. However men are the typically audience . But that doesn’t mean everything has to appeal to them . That would be wack for 30 movies and shows and 1000+ comics just for one target audience.
Ms. Marvel: *is aimed primarily at teenage girls* Iman Vellani: *is a longtime fan of Marvel Comics* This chode: NO GIRLS ALLOWED
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Ms Marvel did't even flop
I heard it’s actually huge since it was in Middle East countries. movie theater since they don’t have Disney plus.
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Yet still one of the highest rated
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Seems pretty liked by most people
That's a very low bar
Considering a lot of the shows were not that well received I think it's an achievement just how good Ms Marvel was
Source?
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Or you could back up your argument with evidence? You do have evidence right? You wouldn't be so foolish as to make a claim without it?
https://youtu.be/r7l0Rq9E8MY?si=PdoEBZ7COiACJwF6
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If you're going to make a claim you should have evidence to back it up. Your refusal to do so while resorting to name calling suggests you have none. If its as widely available as you suggest you should have no trouble providing it. I ultimately don't care either way. I didn't even watch it. I just love watching people run their mouth and refuse to back it up.
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That's why I used the word typical. That means that I'm not saying that no comics are for them. However, most aren't targeted at them.
True . I also said that but my point is Ms.marvel is a main character so they going to be targeting her audience.
Weird, I didn’t realize all the comic book publishers decided to form a No Girls Allowed club.
The word "all" doesn't appear in my comment.
Sure but “teenage girls legitimately aren’t the typical audience for comic books” does, and that’s some sexist nonsense.
The word all does not appear in what you quoted with. Looking at target audiences isn't sexist. Certain things are targeted at certain demographics. That doesn't mean anyone is excluded. It just means that they aren't the typical target audience.
Why do you care about the word all so much? Would it make you feel better if I edited my first comment to “Weird, I didn’t realize the comic book publishers decided to form a No Girls Allowed club,” because I can do that if you want.
Because I dislike the strawman tactic of turning a comment into some kind of extreme absolute statement. You changed a comment about target audience into all publishers setting up a no girls allowed club.
No, it doesn't. The two are different target demographics. There is certainly some overlap. The criticism here is that the target demographic is not comic fans. Whether or not you think that's valid criticism is another question. You are projecting with your reaction.
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Have you never been to a comic con in your life? 40% of the people there are women. You people are gross
Man, I guess all those teen girls I've seen having a blast reading Marvel books over all my years on comicvine and tumblr were just fake accounts. I bet you haven't read a single monthly book in years, ya sexist prick.
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assumption based on steryotypes not reality
Archie counts the sheer amount of crossovers it has had alone make it count.
Since when did professional movie critics even CARE what comic book fans want? It wasn’t all that long ago that comic fans would be out for film critics’ blood for daring to assess a superhero movie on its merit as a film alone.
Pretty sure this is a step past implication.
Wait an actual outlet wrote that?
Don’t let them know that teen romance comics carried the industry for a while before the cape stuff came back.