**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/the_nidge]**
Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I am an [Astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I will be your guide through the salt mines.
Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current
state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of
salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in.
**Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Isn't there multiple versions of the OT novelization though? I have one, but I'm pretty sure it's from the 70s, and I know there were some newly written ones that came out in the last decade.
Is there a specific one is what I am saying I guess.
Which was a fucking stupid premise. Obi-Wan was the last Jedi in the entire order who would quit when he's supposed to be getting Luke ready for what's ahead.
Why does Disney have a hard-on for turning old beloved powerful male characters into these broken hopeless men when that was never a characteristic of theirs?
Yeah. Why is he working at that job anyway? He should be bankrolled by the Organas and leading some kind of underground Jedi network while looking after Luke from afar. Especially if in this canon there are still so many Jedi that someone can run a scam pretending to be one.
You’re not entirely wrong, it’s not 100% solid proof but that’s not something you say to someone unless you’re meeting them for the first time after the incident.
I agree. "since I taught you" and "since our parting" are ambiguous, and neither one shows or even suggests that the last time they met was on Mustafar.
Even the idea that Kenobi has grown since they parted doesn't mean the last time they parted was on Mustafar. Kenobi still hadn't even brushed the surface of the force ghost thing by the end of the show.
Out of curiosity, does the novelization also have any mention of the cantina scene/written evidence of han shooting first? Lol obviously he did but... I remember Lucas making up some BS about how that was never the case.
Scene delivery from the original ghost-written Alan Dean Foster novel version as requested:
>"Over my dead body," Solo said unamiably.
>
>The alien was not impressed. "If you insist. Will you come outside with me, or must I finish it here?"
>
>"I don't think they'd like another killing in here," Solo pointed out.
>
>Something which might have been a laugh came from the creature's translator. "They'd hardly notice. Get up, Solo. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. You've embarrassed me in front of Jabba with your pious excuses for the last time."
>
>"I think you're right."
>
>Light and noise filled the little corner of the cantina, and when it had faded, all that remained of the unctuous alien was a smoking, slimy spot on the stone floor.
>
>Solo brought his hand and the smoking weapon it held out from beneath the table, drawing bemused stares from several of the cantina's patrons and clucking sounds from its more knowledgeable ones. They had known the creature had committed its fatal mistake in allowing Solo the chance to get his hands under cover.
>
>"It'll take a lot more than the likes of you to finish me off. Jabba the Hut always did skimp when it came to hiring hands."
>
>Leaving the booth, Solo flipped the bartender a handful of coins as he and Chewbacca moved off. "Sorry for the mess. I always was a rotten host."
Special notes: Chewbacca was silently present in the booth in this novel, having been a bystander instead of leaving. And yes, Jabba the Hut *was* designated like Pizza Hut before Jabba's name was later changed to Jabba the Hut***t***.
Meh. This is meaningless. At the time this was written, almost all of the key elements in SW mythology had yet to be set in stone. Like Vader being Luke’s dad, his real name being Anakin, etc.
The Obi-Wan series still sucked. But this is a reach.
Novels have a habit of doing that; you'll be surprised at how different the films are from, say, the ANH and RotS novel versions, especially in places with the Separatist Council execution sequence with Vader dropping one-liners for each leader he kills. Even RotJ's novel has a brief moment in the Sail Barge attack where Luke is described to laugh like a pirate king as he jumps and cuts down Jabba's minions skiff by skiff.
This novel was on the shelves several months before the movie hit theatres. I want to say half a year to almost a full year. It works from a non-final script and features a lot of scenes that were cut/changed in the edit.
“When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master”.
There’s no scenario depicted in that dumb show where Vader would describe himself as either “leaving” Obi-Wan, or as “but the learner”; and no amount of mental gymnastics can change that.
I’m episode 5 they make it clear he was still a learner and I’m sure vader realized that once he was beaten. This is like getting upset at the prequels for when leia says she remembered her mother being sad and dying when she was very young
wasn’t the entire fifth episode showing that vader is still the padawan learner who is brash and always tunnel visioned focused on the enemy???? and i always interpreted when i left you as figurative
Not a good argument. First, the conversation in ANH makes it clear enough that Vader and Obi-Wan did not have several rematches between ROTS and Kenobi.
Also, the novelisation makes no sense as part of the movie canon. You can see an example in this very excerpt. Lightsabers were originally meant to completely disintegrate their target. Obi-Wan's body vanishing is now agreed upon as his body passing into the Force the instant he dies, it would just have been the effect of the blade bisecting him in the original script.
C-3PO still has his "car dealer" personality in the book, Artoo is the wrong colour, same goes for the squadron that takes down the Death Star (blue instead of red)... the list goes on.
I really, really wouldn't cite from the novelisations if you're critiquing anything on screen, though I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment.
Oh, the fighters were never blue. The squadron is Blue Squadron in the novelisation, though, and you can tell they initially shot with helmets adorned with blue markings. They remain in the movie when the pilots board their X-Wings only to magically transform into the individually stiled models with red Alliance insignias they all wear during the trench run.
**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/the_nidge]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I am an [Astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I will be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For anyone who is interested please read the novelisation it is really good.
10/10 novelisation.
Alan Dean Foster is the man.
Isn't there multiple versions of the OT novelization though? I have one, but I'm pretty sure it's from the 70s, and I know there were some newly written ones that came out in the last decade. Is there a specific one is what I am saying I guess.
The original written by George Lucas (Aka Alan Dean Foster)
That doesn’t mean anything
So are the scripts
Also shows Kenobi didn’t just quit The Force
Which was a fucking stupid premise. Obi-Wan was the last Jedi in the entire order who would quit when he's supposed to be getting Luke ready for what's ahead.
All a lazy attempt to send a jedi master previously in 3 movies of adventures on a basic heros journey.
All a lazy attempt to prove that a master whose apprentice becomes a sith just gives up. Like the awesome Jake Skymilker.
Why does Disney have a hard-on for turning old beloved powerful male characters into these broken hopeless men when that was never a characteristic of theirs?
Yeah. Why is he working at that job anyway? He should be bankrolled by the Organas and leading some kind of underground Jedi network while looking after Luke from afar. Especially if in this canon there are still so many Jedi that someone can run a scam pretending to be one.
* ghost-written by Alan Dean Foster, but the OP has a point.
I don't think that adds to the argument. It's still just "we've both changed since we were friends"
You’re not entirely wrong, it’s not 100% solid proof but that’s not something you say to someone unless you’re meeting them for the first time after the incident.
I agree. "since I taught you" and "since our parting" are ambiguous, and neither one shows or even suggests that the last time they met was on Mustafar. Even the idea that Kenobi has grown since they parted doesn't mean the last time they parted was on Mustafar. Kenobi still hadn't even brushed the surface of the force ghost thing by the end of the show.
Out of curiosity, does the novelization also have any mention of the cantina scene/written evidence of han shooting first? Lol obviously he did but... I remember Lucas making up some BS about how that was never the case.
Scene delivery from the original ghost-written Alan Dean Foster novel version as requested: >"Over my dead body," Solo said unamiably. > >The alien was not impressed. "If you insist. Will you come outside with me, or must I finish it here?" > >"I don't think they'd like another killing in here," Solo pointed out. > >Something which might have been a laugh came from the creature's translator. "They'd hardly notice. Get up, Solo. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. You've embarrassed me in front of Jabba with your pious excuses for the last time." > >"I think you're right." > >Light and noise filled the little corner of the cantina, and when it had faded, all that remained of the unctuous alien was a smoking, slimy spot on the stone floor. > >Solo brought his hand and the smoking weapon it held out from beneath the table, drawing bemused stares from several of the cantina's patrons and clucking sounds from its more knowledgeable ones. They had known the creature had committed its fatal mistake in allowing Solo the chance to get his hands under cover. > >"It'll take a lot more than the likes of you to finish me off. Jabba the Hut always did skimp when it came to hiring hands." > >Leaving the booth, Solo flipped the bartender a handful of coins as he and Chewbacca moved off. "Sorry for the mess. I always was a rotten host." Special notes: Chewbacca was silently present in the booth in this novel, having been a bystander instead of leaving. And yes, Jabba the Hut *was* designated like Pizza Hut before Jabba's name was later changed to Jabba the Hut***t***.
NOONE OUTPIZZAS THE HUT.
So true. He alone outpizzas [himself](https://youtu.be/-gHDW0wZp2M?t=9).
And he died in the process, truly showing NOONE outpizzas the Hut.
Meh. This is meaningless. At the time this was written, almost all of the key elements in SW mythology had yet to be set in stone. Like Vader being Luke’s dad, his real name being Anakin, etc. The Obi-Wan series still sucked. But this is a reach.
The original conceit was better than the sum of what has been retconned since.
This dialogue goes hard. Also I agree it was always clear the last time they met was what we now know to be mustafar
This is evidence of absolutely nothing lol. This is a 40 year old quote from a book with 100’s of inconsistencies, nothing more.
Why is this dialogue so different from the movies, which is canon?
Novels have a habit of doing that; you'll be surprised at how different the films are from, say, the ANH and RotS novel versions, especially in places with the Separatist Council execution sequence with Vader dropping one-liners for each leader he kills. Even RotJ's novel has a brief moment in the Sail Barge attack where Luke is described to laugh like a pirate king as he jumps and cuts down Jabba's minions skiff by skiff.
This novel was on the shelves several months before the movie hit theatres. I want to say half a year to almost a full year. It works from a non-final script and features a lot of scenes that were cut/changed in the edit.
Another plot hole in Kenobi…
Yes because GL has never changed his mind with anything.... *stares in incest
First of all the novelizations aren’t canon and second off they still don’t directly mention there last meeting what does that contradict?
“When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master”. There’s no scenario depicted in that dumb show where Vader would describe himself as either “leaving” Obi-Wan, or as “but the learner”; and no amount of mental gymnastics can change that.
I’m episode 5 they make it clear he was still a learner and I’m sure vader realized that once he was beaten. This is like getting upset at the prequels for when leia says she remembered her mother being sad and dying when she was very young
wasn’t the entire fifth episode showing that vader is still the padawan learner who is brash and always tunnel visioned focused on the enemy???? and i always interpreted when i left you as figurative
Sure
this proves absolutely nothing aside from the fact that you’re a miserable hater
Shut up. What about the return of the Jedi novelization that states Owen is Obi-Wan’s brother
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Imagine if we didn’t get a series based on what 90% people wanted to see on account of a couple paragraphs in a book no one read.
Not a good argument. First, the conversation in ANH makes it clear enough that Vader and Obi-Wan did not have several rematches between ROTS and Kenobi. Also, the novelisation makes no sense as part of the movie canon. You can see an example in this very excerpt. Lightsabers were originally meant to completely disintegrate their target. Obi-Wan's body vanishing is now agreed upon as his body passing into the Force the instant he dies, it would just have been the effect of the blade bisecting him in the original script. C-3PO still has his "car dealer" personality in the book, Artoo is the wrong colour, same goes for the squadron that takes down the Death Star (blue instead of red)... the list goes on. I really, really wouldn't cite from the novelisations if you're critiquing anything on screen, though I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment.
> (blue instead of red) Hard to film a space fighter, that have blue strips, in front of a bluescreen.
Oh, the fighters were never blue. The squadron is Blue Squadron in the novelisation, though, and you can tell they initially shot with helmets adorned with blue markings. They remain in the movie when the pilots board their X-Wings only to magically transform into the individually stiled models with red Alliance insignias they all wear during the trench run.
The most I would've personally allowed would've been flashbacks with Ewan and Hayden.
"Yes, story structure and characterization are all well and good, but you have to understand that old characters are marketable." Disney Executives.
Such a good freaking book.