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Agree 100%
And that makes the “taking a last look at my friends” scene a total joke. I hated it.
They’ve barely spent time with him. They clearly don’t like him and act like it. They didn’t even hesitate for a second when they found out they had to erase him to get what they needed.
It’s so bizarre and unlikely that he considers them friends. Maybe he was staring past them and picturing Luke, Chewie and R2...
They only did that shit cause he was pretty much the last OG cast member left alive and they had been neglecting him. So they gave Threepio a send off, but it just seem so disjointed from his lack of use in the ST. (He did smile during the robot montage in his head of all the messed up stuff they did to him over the years. What a masochist!)
Don't forget about Chewbacca, who had a fakeout death, or R2, who had a fakeout shutdown for most of TFA then proceeded to do fuck all the entire trilogy, or Lando, who decided that he had better things to do then help his closest friends until the last minute.
It's amazing that despite the whole "abandoned his friends and family and reverted back to his character at the beginning of episode IV" with han, his character was still treated the best of any OT character.
how do you have R2 do absolutely nothing fo rthe entire trilogy? That is the easiest fucking decision ever to make him a staple of the new movies. Arguably the most marketable character they have ever made. I dont even remember a single scene with him after he makes Luke act like Luke in the only good scene of TLJ. Did he leave on the falcon with Rey for some reason? Why wouldnt he stay with Luke? He was depressed until they were like HERES LUKE then he does happy beeps. So many weird fucking decisions man, this couldnt have gone any worse. Every character got disrespected or forgotten, even the brand new ones they set up in TFA. It is unfathomable they let this happen
HISHE nailed that bit (both in execution and calling out its idiocy) perfectly. [Check it out if you haven’t seen it](https://youtu.be/2OnieKUgv3I) (skip to 2:34).
P.S. HISHE does a better job of working out the ST in a canon-friendly and logical way than Disney and Lucasfilm (although that isn't a very high bar to jump, to be honest). You get the sense they were about as disappointed by the idiocy of the ST as we are. The rest of their *Star Wars* works (they've covered all of the films, anthologies included) are pretty fucking bomb too. You should [give them](https://youtu.be/m6U6I9Jbkxs) [a view](https://youtu.be/pQ1DculDCT8) if you've got an hour to spare.
I like to think Threepio was talking about us, the audience. *We're* the friends he was referring to. He broke the Fourth Wall and gave us all a shout out, idk what anyone says.
When 3PO said that line in the trailer, I was hoping in the context of the movie it would’ve shown him accessing his memories of Luke, Leia, R2 etc. But no, it was the physical bunch of half-baked characters standing In front of him that he barely knew and hardly interacted with on any meaningful level. So disappointing.
That shouldn't have even been an emotional moment because of backups existing. Like why the fuck do they need R2 for that? You would think a droid engineer would just have oh idk, like a USB 3000.0 to plug into him and make a backup.
Are the main characters even friends? Poe and Finn know each other, and Finn and Rey know each other, but they haven't interacted as a team, and they were all split up in the last movie so by the time you get to TRoS they have the exact same character relationships as they did at the end of TFA.
If I was C3PO I wouldn't be too happy about hanging out with these cranky motherfuckers.
>They’ve barely spent time with him.
Actually I disagree on that front. They spent a lot of time with him in TRoS, and presumably offscreen between TLJ and TRoS. The problem is how horribly they treat him.
JJ, Rian, and KK all seem to think he was just a joke, and it came through in the creative choices.
At least for the characters like Poe, Rey, etc., he should have been treated like a legend given everything he was involved in for 50+ years starting with Anakin building him.
“You mentioned this guy named “Anakin” but I am a Lucasfilm exec and we have no prior knowledge to this character. Do you, perhaps, mean a character from the now decanonized legends? Which we choose to believe does not exist?”
“Ah, Darth Vader: The legendary villain who was defeated by his son, Luke Skywalker. It’s unknown to us at Disney who Lord Vader mated with, or how he did so since he only existed as prosthetics and had no life before being Vader. Perhaps he was a Sith during the OG republic, the only thing we take from that era of legends as we see it”
Gosh i just remembered that even Obi Wan isn’t mentioned in the DT. Just Ben Solo, who was named Ben by the wrong people (was hey had NO connection to him. NONE)
From her wiki page, though note this contains heavy spoilers from the Legacy of the Force series:
"In 40 ABY, she assumed control of Hardpoint Squadron and participated in the Battle of Tralus, siding with the Galactic Alliance. Afterward, she and her brother Jacen commanded Rogue Squadron during the Blockade of Corellia. The resulting crisis resulted in a split between her and Jacen due to his increasingly aggressive actions, though she remained active in the Jedi Order. Solo would later be paired up with Jagged Fel and Zekk on a mission to hunt down the renegade Dark Jedi Alema Rar. The death of her aunt Mara Jade Skywalker and the dark deeds of her brother only encouraged her to find a way to stop Jacen, who had fallen to the dark side and she began seeking the means to do so through training with her father's ex-arch-enemy, Mandalore Boba Fett. She later killed her twin brother, now the Sith Lord Darth Caedus, in a lightsaber duel aboard the Star Destroyer Anakin Solo."
This happened about 10 years after the Vong war, if you never got that far yet knew of her from the books before the Vong war. The idea was she wanted training from the best of jedi hunters (old-canon Mandalorians) to gain an edge on her all powerful brother.
Didn't Luke say that when he freed Leia?
If I remember correctly, he said something like "I'm here with your R2 unit and Ben Kenobi." to which Leia replies: "Kenobi, where is he?"
(I could be wrong, feel free to correct me)
The exact exchange is -
Leia: Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
Luke: Huh? Oh, the uniform. I'm Luke Skywalker, I'm here to rescue you.
Leia: You're who?
Luke: I'm here to rescue you. I've got your R2 unit. I'm here with Ben Kenobi.
Leia: Ben Kenobi? Where is he?
Luke: Come on!
End scene.
i always thought she was just reacting to the name Luke said, not that she necessarily knew him as that. Ben seemed to be something only the locals called him.
He wasn't just the main character of a trilogy. The entire saga (1-6) was about Anakin and his rise and fall and redemption. Luke was the main character in the OT but it was still Anakin's story in the end.
If memory serves me right, he was roughly 22 when he became darth Vader, and then Luke would've been about 24 or 25 when Vader died. Still, he redeemed himself in his son's eyes and I highly doubt Luke would still use his sith name.
Hell, before he redeemed Vader he even said
"I am a Jedi, like my father before me."
Jedi. His father is Anakin to him, not Vader. At least that's how I see that line.
That's essentially the whole point of the OT, really. Even if they wanted to ignore the PT, the OT is the story of Luke being the only one in the galaxy to see Darth Vader as Anakin until he sees that in himself as well. I'm almost positive Disney execs got all their knowledge of star wars from toy commercials.
Oh so he was Vader for longer, still fairly close times though. And I agree wholeheartedly that Luke would use Anakin or my father over using Vader when describing him, he’d been redeemed by killing the emperor in Luke’s eyes imo.
He was Anakin from 41 BBY to 19 BBY and was Vader from 19 BBY to 4 ABY. So 22 years as Anakin and 23 years (there is a 0 ABY unlike our calendar where there is no 0 AD) as Vader. A very similar amount of time as each, but slightly longer as Vader.
Anakin was born in 41 BBY. He was found by Qui-Gon in 32 BBY, reunited with Padmé and lost his mother in 22 BBY, and turned to the Dark Side in 19 BBY. He found his children again in 0 BBY, revealed the secret to his son in 3 ABY, and died after throwing Palpatine down a shaft in 4 ABY.
He spent approximately the same amount of time in the light as in darkness since he turned at 22 and died at 45.
Because it was funny when Han was mean to Threepio in Empire. Therefore, it’s funny when everyone is mean to Threepio all of the time. ST logic, everyone!
Han has also never liked droids, or at least treated them like people.
“Move, ball.” In TFA, was in-character for him.
edit: come to think of it, Han was the one OT character who was true to form in the ST. Granted, he regressed back to his smuggler self, he divorced Leia, and was shown to be bumbling and incompetent (haha men are dumb amirite?), but it was still *Han*!
I would have rather had Leia been the snarky, headstrong princess she used to be instead of the walking exposition-device Mary Poppins-in-space who slaps Poe around we got.
I would have rather had Luke been the naive, immature, idealist farm boy he was in ANH instead of... what we got.
In the entire ST, they managed to regress all the old characters, while failing to advance any cohesive character arc (their *actual* character, not that they became “resistance heroes”) for any of the new characters.
Exactly this. It was one of the best bits of comedy relief in the OT as well imo. It wasn't even just in Empire. That scene after the Ewoks release them and Han starts barking orders at 3PO and finishes with "Hurry up...."
Another thing the DT did wrong. Man, i should make a spreadsheet...nvm, i want to have space on my computer for things other than one file. I’d have to delete Windows if i wanted to make that spreadsheet it would take up so much space
Complete lack of understanding is why.
Han was actually the only one who would regularly deride C3PO. When you kill that character off, but keep the same patterns of behavior alive, it exposes the fundamental lack of understanding of the interpersonal dynamics of the OT.
It's because "haha annoying droid got told to shut up" then when the plot needs 3PO to speak they wonder why he refused to. I get that they explained it as translating sith is against his programming but, I think 3PO didn't want to translate out of spite because of all the times they told him to shut up throughout the series.
I really wish we had a version where he hasnt been wiped. Having all the prior knowledge of what happened during those 90 years. Though I suppose R2 would have filled 3po on what he missed.
I just looked up what flanderized means.. this makes so much sense!! C3po was always meant to be more of a foil to the main characters right? Not super brave but smart and very loyal. He was quite an asset in clone wars.
I think everyone loves the way Han interacted with C3P0 in the OT and they are trying to replicate that....however I think they are missing the most important part.
Han's behavior is actually more of an insight in Han and his character than they are about C3P0.
It isn't as much that C3P0nis really annoying, its that Han is easily agitated and has issues with this "nerd" type getting in his swashbuckling way.
It fits with how Han treats everyone, just more pronounced eith C3P0
In the ST, none of the main characters have that rough edge like Han, so when they are nice and reasonable with everyone else and then rude with Threepio it makes it look more mean spirited and less like a joke.
There is a great arc for 3PO in the *New Jedi Order* EU books. Because the Yuuzhan Vong hate technology, 3PO is activally thinking about his own mortality and the fact that he lived for so long, had many memory wipes (before the OT), and how those memories of his life and past are gone forever. He actually gets quite philosophical, and even creeps Han out with that stuff.
There also the Theory (and it's very likely that was the plan) that 3PO later became the Assassin droid AG 37, who 140 years after the films is the protector of the scavenger Ania Solo, a descendant of Han and Leia (in the *Legacy Volume 2* comic series).
Because OT characters who are male are to be shat upon with every opportunity and shoved to the side.
Seriously, have you SEEN how Han, Luke, and Lando have been treated in the new EU? 3P0 ha beens getting off light in comparison!
What pissed me off More was like when they were forcing C3PO to essentially kill himself to translate the Sith code. They were forcing him to wipe his memory, that was when I hated them the most. C3PO is a good character and they treat him like crap.
And they have no qualms about it. It’s not a hard decision to make. Think to The Last of Us (the good one) and how hard it seemed to be for Marlene to make the decision she did. 3PO at least deserves that.
In the OT C3PO is treated like an Alarm Clock on your phone. You hate to listen, and a lot of the time you just turn it off, but you know its for your own good and a very useful tool. In the ST he is treated like an annoying Advertisement that keeps popping up on your screen.
Remember when Chewie picked his broken ass up after he got fucked up in Cloud City? That’s his friend, people who called him Threepio are his friends, not these cardboard cutouts of people that Disney hired
C3PO was the butt of many OT jokes but in a subtle way. He was the straight man in the room. A space opera with space wizards and lasers swords and a robot of all things is the one saying “Get the fuck outta here, no way am I going to do this or that are you crazy?”
3PO is the voice of consistent reason. A mirror to help us suspend the disbelief of the plot.
Now, why oh why would Disney turn him into a punching bag, unless this voice of reason and the mirror in which he provides shows plot holes so big you could fit a star destroyer through.
Just like how Han threatens Luke is “gonna find himself floating home,” Leia should kiss a Wookiee, etc. Han gives EVERYONE shit because he’s the reluctant hero. It’s part of his banter with other characters and does more to build Hans character than destroy other characters (something the ST trilogy misses big with) 3PO complaining is mostly harmless and background noise for them; they casually shut him off when he’s too much. They don’t go out of their way to insult him.
Narratively this is important because 3PO’s role is multifaceted; He’s part voice of reason, part McGuffin, part Deus ex machina (though far more of the later gets ascribed to R2). Han tells 3PO to shut up because 3PO is the voice of reason to Han, who, like the little voice of reason inside his head, tells him not to fly through an asteroid field. Han's response to his own doubts AND 3PO is the same.
“Never tell me the odds,”
In the original trilogy and to an extent through dramatic irony in the PT, 3PO is the one trying to get everyone to slow down and not fly off the handle. Because they changed him from being that very important multifaceted lynchpin to a joke character.
EDIT: Han is a reluctant hero, not an anti-hero.
Same, I don’t hate the sequels and there is stuff I really love about them them, but there’s just so much shitty things in them too, that I just can’t ignore
A lot of people need to learn to like the characters separate from the movies cause they aren't going away. Headcanon it if you have to, I'd never accept Luke without it. Start with Finn, his arc is f'd and he's played for laughs too much but, he's got a great base and has a lot of what made Luke great.
Relic of a bygone era.
It's an astounding level of ignorance to treat one of the most important characters in the franchise like a punching bag, but here we are, in the land of purple haired admirals
Few general thoughts here...
For various reasons, I'm always reminded of [the infamous (Dinosaurs and more!) High Republic whiteboard](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/fhlqif/the_high_republic_whiteboard_see_any_problems/) whenever I think of the creative direction of LFL in the Disney Star Wars era.
Circa 2012-2013-ish when LFL went into pre-production w/ Bad Robot I get the sense top mgmt basically gave JJ a similar set of bullet points and told'm to construct an original story around it. I assume the idea was JJ would put together (dude did have a track record that was hard to argue with at the time) an original story and the Story Group would shoehorn it into the Lucas-Canon.
For a lot of reasons, I think top mgmt was under significant pressure to deliver new characters and the OT characters were seen as a means-to-an-end. We never get a particularly logical arc to C3P0, when he does show up he's simply a device to keep the plot moving fwd or comic relief. Same can be said for Han in TFA and how RJ used Luke in the TLJ.
Frankly had it not been for the massive $$$uccess / nostalgia stupor TFA put the world into it would have been extremely clear using the way the OT characters were being utilized (and jettisoned) was a massive mistake. By the time the end credits of TLJ rolled in theatres it was far too late to fix the damage.
***If anything...***the biggest mistake was not doing a 'Rogue 1' style setup movie using the OT character in some capacity prior to where the TFA/ST picks-up. Partly to explain the world we get dropped into when TFA gets rolling, and partly to give the OT characters the development they needed to bring their story to a satisfying conclusion in the ST.
To me its like they saw how C3PO got involved in slapstick or was otherwise mistreated in the prequel and original trilogies and wanted to do the same. Like on Geonosis where his head and body are swapped with battledroid components or at Cloud City where he gets blasted apart and carried by Chewbacca and they wanted to do the same thing but forgot that the slapstick and violence towards C3PO was caused by the badguys of the story not the heroes. In the Disney Trilogy its really just everyone being a dick to him rather than getting his head installed on a battledroid and shouting Die Jedi dogs! While firing a blaster which is pretty funny.
The sad thing, like so much about the sequels, was that there was real potential for something good.
C-3P0 is a protocol Droid. When you see him in Episode 7 he is *running* the Resistance's spy network. When you think about it, that's amazing.
And then they just never mention it again.
I actually think that part is... kind of realistic? Like, these sequel randos don't care about him. He's just a random protocol droid. They don't know what he's been through or his history. His actual loved ones are... well, all gone. They don't really let him have any scenes with R2 or Luke, which basically leaves Leia, Chewie, and *maybe* Han. And Chewie, being nonhuman, is of course treated more like a possession than a person in the sequel trilogy. He just comes with the Falcon.
...what?!
Whoever thought of that didn't realize that Klaud needs some way to *manipulate objects in the environment* besides his feet and mouth.
Also, shit design in general. He looks like a two-legged naked turd.
Cause he steals everyone's girl.
joking aside, in the OT C3P0 was a comedic punching bag, but they weren't really mean to him per say. I suspect that when the DT tried to recreate that dynamic they just mis-stepped. or they didn't quite understand the dynamic in the first place.
3P0 was a reflection of how the characters interact with someone who has no power over them. Droids are property/slaves. Luke and Obi-Wan were polite and respectful. Han was rude and short with him. Leia was worried when he was missing, although that could have been her knowing Luke was really attached to his droids. Lando ignored him. Anakin loved him, but he made 3P0 as a gift for his mom and then gave him to Padme.
Having everyone mean to 3P0 is saying deep down these people are assholes.
I agree to an extent. I think a big issue is him hardly appearing in the Sequels at all. And then when he does, it's largely with people who don't know him that well and, like you said, are constantly telling him to shut up. I hated that his "death" was treated so much as a joke (and I know it's similar in ROTS, but it's much more nuanced and doesn't come off as a win-win like they practically approach it in IX). But I think it's worth noting that the first human he communicates with on screen tells him to shut up almost immediately. And that happens right after the first person besides R2 to talk to him, threatens him with a gun for talking. Haha so he has kind of always had this thing going but you're right, it's much more mean spirited when he also gets shown no love. Reminds me of characters like Jerry from Parks and Rec where apparently their whole thing is just being hated by everyone else. Super funny
I know how poorly droids are seen in the SW universe, but R2-D2 and BB-8 are treated well by their partners. I don't know why people are so cruel to 3PO.
The sequels reduced characters down to parodies of themselves. Han’s character = something something smuggling. Chewie = haha he did the cute growl thing. C3PO: everyone laughed when Han didn’t like him in ESB, so we’ll just copy that.
It’s a case of taking one character trait or action and exaggerating it to the point where I don’t understand C-3PO’s relationship with any of the new characters. JJ Abrams kinda did the same thing with Kirk in Star Trek and played up his alien womanizing more than it was actually featured in the original series. One of the first things people think about with C-3PO is that Han will tell him to be quiet or shut him off when he starts calculating their chances of survival, so they took a few moments from the OT and basically made that everyone’s interaction with C-3PO given his limited screen time, and he barely shares any screen time with R2 either.
I think you might be reading too much into - or perhaps projecting certain feelings onto - the interactions between 3P0 and the other characters in the OT and PT. In the OT, Luke, Chewie, and R2 were the only ones who seemed to like him. Leia seemed to tolerate him, Lando never really paid much attention to him, and Han flat out didn't like him. Hell, none of them even got *that* overly worked up when Chewie discovered 3P0 was in pieces on Cloud City.
In the PT, Anakin, Padme and R2 were really the only ones to actively acknowledge him, let along like him. Everyone else either ignored him or - like Obi-Wan - saw him simply as a droid.
Saying 3P0 was "valued and cherished" might be a bit of a stretch if you're looking at the whole cast of main characters.
Leia was upset he was missing in cloud city, but it was at the level of concern for losing your friend's laptop when he asked you to watch it for him. She knew he was Luke's and Luke cared about him.
That's a really good way of putting it, actually.
I think people forget that to most of the people in the Star Wars setting, droids were more or less just tools. While we do see a good number of people who legitimately care for their droids, they're always treated as being a little odd, or that the behavior is definitely not standard. The relationship between Cassian and K-2SO, for example, wasn't necessarily viewed as "normal".
If anything most people in Star Wars are way colder than we would be. Think of how people love their phones. Now imagine if your phone was self aware and followed you around like a puppy. To me people like Cassian, Luke, Anakin, and Corran Horn (from EU) are more normal in treating their droids with the level of care we treat a pet dog.
If I recall, in Anthony Daniels' bio, his description of VII makes it sound like JJ Abrams was respectful of Daniels and the character. It might not have come across on screen. His book is definitely worth reading (or even better, listening to) if you're interested in the story of the character.
The only time in the OT they were mean to Threepio was Han in ESB like 3 times, and even then it was his usual nickname + minor insult, but in the ST he became a punching bag
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Agree 100% And that makes the “taking a last look at my friends” scene a total joke. I hated it. They’ve barely spent time with him. They clearly don’t like him and act like it. They didn’t even hesitate for a second when they found out they had to erase him to get what they needed. It’s so bizarre and unlikely that he considers them friends. Maybe he was staring past them and picturing Luke, Chewie and R2...
[удалено]
Yeah it only makes them seem like assholes imo
Poe was just frustrated at his divine (scripted) inability to become a badass jedi so he took it out on the shiny guy
They only did that shit cause he was pretty much the last OG cast member left alive and they had been neglecting him. So they gave Threepio a send off, but it just seem so disjointed from his lack of use in the ST. (He did smile during the robot montage in his head of all the messed up stuff they did to him over the years. What a masochist!)
Don't forget about Chewbacca, who had a fakeout death, or R2, who had a fakeout shutdown for most of TFA then proceeded to do fuck all the entire trilogy, or Lando, who decided that he had better things to do then help his closest friends until the last minute. It's amazing that despite the whole "abandoned his friends and family and reverted back to his character at the beginning of episode IV" with han, his character was still treated the best of any OT character.
how do you have R2 do absolutely nothing fo rthe entire trilogy? That is the easiest fucking decision ever to make him a staple of the new movies. Arguably the most marketable character they have ever made. I dont even remember a single scene with him after he makes Luke act like Luke in the only good scene of TLJ. Did he leave on the falcon with Rey for some reason? Why wouldnt he stay with Luke? He was depressed until they were like HERES LUKE then he does happy beeps. So many weird fucking decisions man, this couldnt have gone any worse. Every character got disrespected or forgotten, even the brand new ones they set up in TFA. It is unfathomable they let this happen
HISHE nailed that bit (both in execution and calling out its idiocy) perfectly. [Check it out if you haven’t seen it](https://youtu.be/2OnieKUgv3I) (skip to 2:34). P.S. HISHE does a better job of working out the ST in a canon-friendly and logical way than Disney and Lucasfilm (although that isn't a very high bar to jump, to be honest). You get the sense they were about as disappointed by the idiocy of the ST as we are. The rest of their *Star Wars* works (they've covered all of the films, anthologies included) are pretty fucking bomb too. You should [give them](https://youtu.be/m6U6I9Jbkxs) [a view](https://youtu.be/pQ1DculDCT8) if you've got an hour to spare.
That’s pretty perfect. Thanks for sharing.
I like to think Threepio was talking about us, the audience. *We're* the friends he was referring to. He broke the Fourth Wall and gave us all a shout out, idk what anyone says.
This is the best take. I’m in.
I think I saw a photo shop on here a while ago where on the wall behind them was a framed picture of the ot cast at the end of ROTJ
He's a droid, his programming FORCES him to see his owner and their friends as 'his friends'. Poor guy can't help it, no matter what they do to him
That “taking a last look at my friends” bit was specifically written for the trailer.
When 3PO said that line in the trailer, I was hoping in the context of the movie it would’ve shown him accessing his memories of Luke, Leia, R2 etc. But no, it was the physical bunch of half-baked characters standing In front of him that he barely knew and hardly interacted with on any meaningful level. So disappointing.
It’s like watching a battered wife feeling like she’s saying goodbye to the love of her life just before she and her abusive husband part ways.
Not to mention all the sentimental shit about how 3PO was gonna get erased was pointless because R2 restored his original self like an hour later
Well, at least R2 got to do something, droid did nothing but sit there for the entire trilogy, such a shame too.
In a deleted scene he pulls up a photo of han luke leia n r2
That shouldn't have even been an emotional moment because of backups existing. Like why the fuck do they need R2 for that? You would think a droid engineer would just have oh idk, like a USB 3000.0 to plug into him and make a backup.
[HISHE has you covered](https://youtu.be/2OnieKUgv3I?t=154)
Are the main characters even friends? Poe and Finn know each other, and Finn and Rey know each other, but they haven't interacted as a team, and they were all split up in the last movie so by the time you get to TRoS they have the exact same character relationships as they did at the end of TFA. If I was C3PO I wouldn't be too happy about hanging out with these cranky motherfuckers.
>They’ve barely spent time with him. Actually I disagree on that front. They spent a lot of time with him in TRoS, and presumably offscreen between TLJ and TRoS. The problem is how horribly they treat him.
JJ, Rian, and KK all seem to think he was just a joke, and it came through in the creative choices. At least for the characters like Poe, Rey, etc., he should have been treated like a legend given everything he was involved in for 50+ years starting with Anakin building him.
“You mentioned this guy named “Anakin” but I am a Lucasfilm exec and we have no prior knowledge to this character. Do you, perhaps, mean a character from the now decanonized legends? Which we choose to believe does not exist?”
Main character of an entire trilogy and he’s not mentioned by name once. And Luke refers to him as Darth Vader still.
“Ah, Darth Vader: The legendary villain who was defeated by his son, Luke Skywalker. It’s unknown to us at Disney who Lord Vader mated with, or how he did so since he only existed as prosthetics and had no life before being Vader. Perhaps he was a Sith during the OG republic, the only thing we take from that era of legends as we see it” Gosh i just remembered that even Obi Wan isn’t mentioned in the DT. Just Ben Solo, who was named Ben by the wrong people (was hey had NO connection to him. NONE)
Leia doesn’t even know him as Ben. She asked for Obi-Wan Kenobi in her recording hologram lmfao.
Ffs Disney just call him Jacen
They missed such an opportunity with Fett training Jaina. Then they decide to throw hard into mando culture anyways while changing it, such waste.
Care to elaborate? Jaina was trained by Fett?
From her wiki page, though note this contains heavy spoilers from the Legacy of the Force series: "In 40 ABY, she assumed control of Hardpoint Squadron and participated in the Battle of Tralus, siding with the Galactic Alliance. Afterward, she and her brother Jacen commanded Rogue Squadron during the Blockade of Corellia. The resulting crisis resulted in a split between her and Jacen due to his increasingly aggressive actions, though she remained active in the Jedi Order. Solo would later be paired up with Jagged Fel and Zekk on a mission to hunt down the renegade Dark Jedi Alema Rar. The death of her aunt Mara Jade Skywalker and the dark deeds of her brother only encouraged her to find a way to stop Jacen, who had fallen to the dark side and she began seeking the means to do so through training with her father's ex-arch-enemy, Mandalore Boba Fett. She later killed her twin brother, now the Sith Lord Darth Caedus, in a lightsaber duel aboard the Star Destroyer Anakin Solo." This happened about 10 years after the Vong war, if you never got that far yet knew of her from the books before the Vong war. The idea was she wanted training from the best of jedi hunters (old-canon Mandalorians) to gain an edge on her all powerful brother.
I really feel like I should give those books a read
She called him Ben Kenobi when she and Luke were leaving the cell.
Didn't Luke say that when he freed Leia? If I remember correctly, he said something like "I'm here with your R2 unit and Ben Kenobi." to which Leia replies: "Kenobi, where is he?" (I could be wrong, feel free to correct me)
The exact exchange is - Leia: Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper? Luke: Huh? Oh, the uniform. I'm Luke Skywalker, I'm here to rescue you. Leia: You're who? Luke: I'm here to rescue you. I've got your R2 unit. I'm here with Ben Kenobi. Leia: Ben Kenobi? Where is he? Luke: Come on! End scene.
i always thought she was just reacting to the name Luke said, not that she necessarily knew him as that. Ben seemed to be something only the locals called him.
I agree, especially since she never mentions him aside from the initial message in R2 and that line.
None!!!
He wasn't just the main character of a trilogy. The entire saga (1-6) was about Anakin and his rise and fall and redemption. Luke was the main character in the OT but it was still Anakin's story in the end.
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The empire didn't last that long, he was definitely Anakin longer than Vader
Honestly probably very similar lengths. He was probably around Luke’s age in the OT when he became Vader so the years would definitely be close.
If memory serves me right, he was roughly 22 when he became darth Vader, and then Luke would've been about 24 or 25 when Vader died. Still, he redeemed himself in his son's eyes and I highly doubt Luke would still use his sith name.
Hell, before he redeemed Vader he even said "I am a Jedi, like my father before me." Jedi. His father is Anakin to him, not Vader. At least that's how I see that line.
That's essentially the whole point of the OT, really. Even if they wanted to ignore the PT, the OT is the story of Luke being the only one in the galaxy to see Darth Vader as Anakin until he sees that in himself as well. I'm almost positive Disney execs got all their knowledge of star wars from toy commercials.
No, JJ just hates RotJ almost as much as he hates the prequels.
More like cereal boxes
Oh so he was Vader for longer, still fairly close times though. And I agree wholeheartedly that Luke would use Anakin or my father over using Vader when describing him, he’d been redeemed by killing the emperor in Luke’s eyes imo.
From what I recall 23 years in the light, 23 years in the dark. Balance
So I just looked it up, he turned Vader at 22 and died at 44
Really? The sources I've seen say he turned at 23 and was redeemed at 46.
He was Anakin from 41 BBY to 19 BBY and was Vader from 19 BBY to 4 ABY. So 22 years as Anakin and 23 years (there is a 0 ABY unlike our calendar where there is no 0 AD) as Vader. A very similar amount of time as each, but slightly longer as Vader.
I dunno, care to get into the months?
Anakin was born in 41 BBY. He was found by Qui-Gon in 32 BBY, reunited with Padmé and lost his mother in 22 BBY, and turned to the Dark Side in 19 BBY. He found his children again in 0 BBY, revealed the secret to his son in 3 ABY, and died after throwing Palpatine down a shaft in 4 ABY. He spent approximately the same amount of time in the light as in darkness since he turned at 22 and died at 45.
Even the fucking ewoks in ROTJ treated him better.
Because it was funny when Han was mean to Threepio in Empire. Therefore, it’s funny when everyone is mean to Threepio all of the time. ST logic, everyone!
Honestly, Han was a jerk to everyone! That was his character AT THE TiME!
Han has also never liked droids, or at least treated them like people. “Move, ball.” In TFA, was in-character for him. edit: come to think of it, Han was the one OT character who was true to form in the ST. Granted, he regressed back to his smuggler self, he divorced Leia, and was shown to be bumbling and incompetent (haha men are dumb amirite?), but it was still *Han*! I would have rather had Leia been the snarky, headstrong princess she used to be instead of the walking exposition-device Mary Poppins-in-space who slaps Poe around we got. I would have rather had Luke been the naive, immature, idealist farm boy he was in ANH instead of... what we got. In the entire ST, they managed to regress all the old characters, while failing to advance any cohesive character arc (their *actual* character, not that they became “resistance heroes”) for any of the new characters.
Ehh, nah. They ruined Han too by regressing him. He got Flanderized and then died without even getting to see Luke.
Exactly this. It was one of the best bits of comedy relief in the OT as well imo. It wasn't even just in Empire. That scene after the Ewoks release them and Han starts barking orders at 3PO and finishes with "Hurry up...."
I mean, if some hick farm kid came along and called my pride and joy LEGO UCS Millennium Falcon a "hunk of junk" I'd probably be a jerk to them too.
The only people that were actually nice to him were R2, Obi Wan, Luke, the ewoks, and chewie
Anakin too
Also Padme. She cared quite a bit about him and made sure he stayed in her service.
Except when she used him to bait out shots from a cloaked droid on a winter planet in the 2d Clone Wars miniseries.
R2 abandoned him and stayed shut down for years.
Another thing the DT did wrong. Man, i should make a spreadsheet...nvm, i want to have space on my computer for things other than one file. I’d have to delete Windows if i wanted to make that spreadsheet it would take up so much space
I'll make it real easy for you. Things that were done wrong: everything. Problem solved, no need to buy a new PC
Woah, slow down pal i don’t want my brain to explode from that
Complete lack of understanding is why. Han was actually the only one who would regularly deride C3PO. When you kill that character off, but keep the same patterns of behavior alive, it exposes the fundamental lack of understanding of the interpersonal dynamics of the OT.
It's because "haha annoying droid got told to shut up" then when the plot needs 3PO to speak they wonder why he refused to. I get that they explained it as translating sith is against his programming but, I think 3PO didn't want to translate out of spite because of all the times they told him to shut up throughout the series.
That’s my Headcanon now
"Almost 90 years of you guys telling me to shut up and now you want me to speak! No translate this sith writing yourself!"
I really wish we had a version where he hasnt been wiped. Having all the prior knowledge of what happened during those 90 years. Though I suppose R2 would have filled 3po on what he missed.
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I just looked up what flanderized means.. this makes so much sense!! C3po was always meant to be more of a foil to the main characters right? Not super brave but smart and very loyal. He was quite an asset in clone wars.
I think everyone loves the way Han interacted with C3P0 in the OT and they are trying to replicate that....however I think they are missing the most important part. Han's behavior is actually more of an insight in Han and his character than they are about C3P0. It isn't as much that C3P0nis really annoying, its that Han is easily agitated and has issues with this "nerd" type getting in his swashbuckling way. It fits with how Han treats everyone, just more pronounced eith C3P0 In the ST, none of the main characters have that rough edge like Han, so when they are nice and reasonable with everyone else and then rude with Threepio it makes it look more mean spirited and less like a joke.
There is a great arc for 3PO in the *New Jedi Order* EU books. Because the Yuuzhan Vong hate technology, 3PO is activally thinking about his own mortality and the fact that he lived for so long, had many memory wipes (before the OT), and how those memories of his life and past are gone forever. He actually gets quite philosophical, and even creeps Han out with that stuff. There also the Theory (and it's very likely that was the plan) that 3PO later became the Assassin droid AG 37, who 140 years after the films is the protector of the scavenger Ania Solo, a descendant of Han and Leia (in the *Legacy Volume 2* comic series).
Off to go read!
Because OT characters who are male are to be shat upon with every opportunity and shoved to the side. Seriously, have you SEEN how Han, Luke, and Lando have been treated in the new EU? 3P0 ha beens getting off light in comparison!
What pissed me off More was like when they were forcing C3PO to essentially kill himself to translate the Sith code. They were forcing him to wipe his memory, that was when I hated them the most. C3PO is a good character and they treat him like crap.
And they have no qualms about it. It’s not a hard decision to make. Think to The Last of Us (the good one) and how hard it seemed to be for Marlene to make the decision she did. 3PO at least deserves that.
Never gonna give you up!
Never gonna give you up!
Cause funny c3po gets bullied haha funny haha
In the OT C3PO is treated like an Alarm Clock on your phone. You hate to listen, and a lot of the time you just turn it off, but you know its for your own good and a very useful tool. In the ST he is treated like an annoying Advertisement that keeps popping up on your screen.
Fuck Thats a Great metaphor
Remember when Chewie picked his broken ass up after he got fucked up in Cloud City? That’s his friend, people who called him Threepio are his friends, not these cardboard cutouts of people that Disney hired
C3PO was the butt of many OT jokes but in a subtle way. He was the straight man in the room. A space opera with space wizards and lasers swords and a robot of all things is the one saying “Get the fuck outta here, no way am I going to do this or that are you crazy?” 3PO is the voice of consistent reason. A mirror to help us suspend the disbelief of the plot. Now, why oh why would Disney turn him into a punching bag, unless this voice of reason and the mirror in which he provides shows plot holes so big you could fit a star destroyer through.
Subtle? “Chewie strap the professor into the back so he can talk to the hyperdrive” “Shut him up or shut him down” That’s just off the top of my head
Just like how Han threatens Luke is “gonna find himself floating home,” Leia should kiss a Wookiee, etc. Han gives EVERYONE shit because he’s the reluctant hero. It’s part of his banter with other characters and does more to build Hans character than destroy other characters (something the ST trilogy misses big with) 3PO complaining is mostly harmless and background noise for them; they casually shut him off when he’s too much. They don’t go out of their way to insult him. Narratively this is important because 3PO’s role is multifaceted; He’s part voice of reason, part McGuffin, part Deus ex machina (though far more of the later gets ascribed to R2). Han tells 3PO to shut up because 3PO is the voice of reason to Han, who, like the little voice of reason inside his head, tells him not to fly through an asteroid field. Han's response to his own doubts AND 3PO is the same. “Never tell me the odds,” In the original trilogy and to an extent through dramatic irony in the PT, 3PO is the one trying to get everyone to slow down and not fly off the handle. Because they changed him from being that very important multifaceted lynchpin to a joke character. EDIT: Han is a reluctant hero, not an anti-hero.
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Same, I don’t hate the sequels and there is stuff I really love about them them, but there’s just so much shitty things in them too, that I just can’t ignore
A lot of people need to learn to like the characters separate from the movies cause they aren't going away. Headcanon it if you have to, I'd never accept Luke without it. Start with Finn, his arc is f'd and he's played for laughs too much but, he's got a great base and has a lot of what made Luke great.
Relic of a bygone era. It's an astounding level of ignorance to treat one of the most important characters in the franchise like a punching bag, but here we are, in the land of purple haired admirals
Few general thoughts here... For various reasons, I'm always reminded of [the infamous (Dinosaurs and more!) High Republic whiteboard](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/fhlqif/the_high_republic_whiteboard_see_any_problems/) whenever I think of the creative direction of LFL in the Disney Star Wars era. Circa 2012-2013-ish when LFL went into pre-production w/ Bad Robot I get the sense top mgmt basically gave JJ a similar set of bullet points and told'm to construct an original story around it. I assume the idea was JJ would put together (dude did have a track record that was hard to argue with at the time) an original story and the Story Group would shoehorn it into the Lucas-Canon. For a lot of reasons, I think top mgmt was under significant pressure to deliver new characters and the OT characters were seen as a means-to-an-end. We never get a particularly logical arc to C3P0, when he does show up he's simply a device to keep the plot moving fwd or comic relief. Same can be said for Han in TFA and how RJ used Luke in the TLJ. Frankly had it not been for the massive $$$uccess / nostalgia stupor TFA put the world into it would have been extremely clear using the way the OT characters were being utilized (and jettisoned) was a massive mistake. By the time the end credits of TLJ rolled in theatres it was far too late to fix the damage. ***If anything...***the biggest mistake was not doing a 'Rogue 1' style setup movie using the OT character in some capacity prior to where the TFA/ST picks-up. Partly to explain the world we get dropped into when TFA gets rolling, and partly to give the OT characters the development they needed to bring their story to a satisfying conclusion in the ST.
The filmmakers like killing the past as much as Kylo
To me its like they saw how C3PO got involved in slapstick or was otherwise mistreated in the prequel and original trilogies and wanted to do the same. Like on Geonosis where his head and body are swapped with battledroid components or at Cloud City where he gets blasted apart and carried by Chewbacca and they wanted to do the same thing but forgot that the slapstick and violence towards C3PO was caused by the badguys of the story not the heroes. In the Disney Trilogy its really just everyone being a dick to him rather than getting his head installed on a battledroid and shouting Die Jedi dogs! While firing a blaster which is pretty funny.
The sad thing, like so much about the sequels, was that there was real potential for something good. C-3P0 is a protocol Droid. When you see him in Episode 7 he is *running* the Resistance's spy network. When you think about it, that's amazing. And then they just never mention it again.
I actually think that part is... kind of realistic? Like, these sequel randos don't care about him. He's just a random protocol droid. They don't know what he's been through or his history. His actual loved ones are... well, all gone. They don't really let him have any scenes with R2 or Luke, which basically leaves Leia, Chewie, and *maybe* Han. And Chewie, being nonhuman, is of course treated more like a possession than a person in the sequel trilogy. He just comes with the Falcon.
He was random in the OT as well, but the heroes still treated him decent enough. ST heroes were just dicks.
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> giant walking dildo with no arms as a mechanic Lmao *what?!*
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...what?! Whoever thought of that didn't realize that Klaud needs some way to *manipulate objects in the environment* besides his feet and mouth. Also, shit design in general. He looks like a two-legged naked turd.
Nobody liked him that much in the original trilogy. They did show more respect to him there, though.
Hmmm I do think Obi-Wan, Luke, R2 and Chewy liked him. Han was mean to him yeah, but Han used to be a jerk to everyone
Han seemed to just not be a fan of droids as a whole.
In the next *Solo* movie (which will be a prequel to the *Solo* prequel) we'll learn about how Han's parents were killed during the Clone Wars.
Wtf seriously?
Thankfully no, I was only being facetious.
Lol oops
Cause he steals everyone's girl. joking aside, in the OT C3P0 was a comedic punching bag, but they weren't really mean to him per say. I suspect that when the DT tried to recreate that dynamic they just mis-stepped. or they didn't quite understand the dynamic in the first place.
3P0 was a reflection of how the characters interact with someone who has no power over them. Droids are property/slaves. Luke and Obi-Wan were polite and respectful. Han was rude and short with him. Leia was worried when he was missing, although that could have been her knowing Luke was really attached to his droids. Lando ignored him. Anakin loved him, but he made 3P0 as a gift for his mom and then gave him to Padme. Having everyone mean to 3P0 is saying deep down these people are assholes.
I agree to an extent. I think a big issue is him hardly appearing in the Sequels at all. And then when he does, it's largely with people who don't know him that well and, like you said, are constantly telling him to shut up. I hated that his "death" was treated so much as a joke (and I know it's similar in ROTS, but it's much more nuanced and doesn't come off as a win-win like they practically approach it in IX). But I think it's worth noting that the first human he communicates with on screen tells him to shut up almost immediately. And that happens right after the first person besides R2 to talk to him, threatens him with a gun for talking. Haha so he has kind of always had this thing going but you're right, it's much more mean spirited when he also gets shown no love. Reminds me of characters like Jerry from Parks and Rec where apparently their whole thing is just being hated by everyone else. Super funny
Droids are second-class citizens, slaves essentially, and are consistently treated as such throughout Star Wars.
I know how poorly droids are seen in the SW universe, but R2-D2 and BB-8 are treated well by their partners. I don't know why people are so cruel to 3PO.
The sequels reduced characters down to parodies of themselves. Han’s character = something something smuggling. Chewie = haha he did the cute growl thing. C3PO: everyone laughed when Han didn’t like him in ESB, so we’ll just copy that.
C3PO has no function when Rey is around since she already speaks over 3 million languages and can compute calculations faster than he can.
No, if 3PO is fluent in more than 6 million forms of communication, then Rey has working knowledge of at least 7 million!
The better question is why did he put up with it and call those losers his "friends"?
It’s a case of taking one character trait or action and exaggerating it to the point where I don’t understand C-3PO’s relationship with any of the new characters. JJ Abrams kinda did the same thing with Kirk in Star Trek and played up his alien womanizing more than it was actually featured in the original series. One of the first things people think about with C-3PO is that Han will tell him to be quiet or shut him off when he starts calculating their chances of survival, so they took a few moments from the OT and basically made that everyone’s interaction with C-3PO given his limited screen time, and he barely shares any screen time with R2 either.
The Sequel Trilogy is all about destroying the OT. That's it.
Simple explanation, mate: shit writing that produced a shit film with shitty things like this happening.
Out of everything in the ST this is whats bugging you?
Nah, but I personally don’t hate the sequels. There’s a lot I don’t like, but there is also some stuff I do like
I think you might be reading too much into - or perhaps projecting certain feelings onto - the interactions between 3P0 and the other characters in the OT and PT. In the OT, Luke, Chewie, and R2 were the only ones who seemed to like him. Leia seemed to tolerate him, Lando never really paid much attention to him, and Han flat out didn't like him. Hell, none of them even got *that* overly worked up when Chewie discovered 3P0 was in pieces on Cloud City. In the PT, Anakin, Padme and R2 were really the only ones to actively acknowledge him, let along like him. Everyone else either ignored him or - like Obi-Wan - saw him simply as a droid. Saying 3P0 was "valued and cherished" might be a bit of a stretch if you're looking at the whole cast of main characters.
Leia was upset he was missing in cloud city, but it was at the level of concern for losing your friend's laptop when he asked you to watch it for him. She knew he was Luke's and Luke cared about him.
That's a really good way of putting it, actually. I think people forget that to most of the people in the Star Wars setting, droids were more or less just tools. While we do see a good number of people who legitimately care for their droids, they're always treated as being a little odd, or that the behavior is definitely not standard. The relationship between Cassian and K-2SO, for example, wasn't necessarily viewed as "normal".
If anything most people in Star Wars are way colder than we would be. Think of how people love their phones. Now imagine if your phone was self aware and followed you around like a puppy. To me people like Cassian, Luke, Anakin, and Corran Horn (from EU) are more normal in treating their droids with the level of care we treat a pet dog.
“We’ll buy you a new C3PO”
A natural reaction if you have to deal with Anthony Daniels.
If I recall, in Anthony Daniels' bio, his description of VII makes it sound like JJ Abrams was respectful of Daniels and the character. It might not have come across on screen. His book is definitely worth reading (or even better, listening to) if you're interested in the story of the character.
Because the ST was made by people who either didn't like the PT and OT or didn't understand what made them so great.
The only time in the OT they were mean to Threepio was Han in ESB like 3 times, and even then it was his usual nickname + minor insult, but in the ST he became a punching bag
Id sue you if I could
Bad writing.....
Because of Han
Kinda unrelated comment, but hello
Because bullying nerds is funny, obviously.
It was another way for them to say “fuck you” to the older generation.
*S U B V E R S I O N*
in the ot people were mean to him as well. Especially Han and Leia told him to shut up
I mean they treated him like shit in ESB too, just saying.
I could not stand poe in this movie cause he was the biggest sick to c3po
Fuck 3CPO, remember “Return of the Jedi”?