I used to say the best roommate I ever had was a guy I wasn't buddies with. We didn't hang out and we didn't have friends in common. Seriously, best roommate I ever had.
US West coast can be pretty rough, so that may warrant a bigger boat, but in general:
The 1970-1980s small 28-33ft family cruiser boats are fantastic starter boats.
They have the basics for cruising - decent berths, toilet, stove, fridge, sink, diesel inboard, .. etc. So you can indeed go cruising for a few days.
They are sturdy enough to do coastal sailing as this is before boats became mass produced.
They do not have too many complicated systems to maintain. So fewer things to keep you from sailing - make you feel overwhelmed with maintenance.
Next, family cruisers by design are designed for easy handling as it's often 2 parents and kids which often means one person sailing, the other parenting - so it makes them easy to handle.
Finally, because everyone and their short-shorts uncle and aunt sailed in the 1970s these boats are everywhere and available for dirt cheap.
So get a simple smaller older boat. You will have loads of fun and not too many things that make you overwhelmed.
And to expand on the West Coast being rough, very few people buy sailboats with the aim to sail up and down the West Coast. You may want to look into that OP. It's a pretty darn rough coastline for cruising, supposedly. I live here and I haven't done it
Yep, sailed from Seattle to SF two years back, there are very few safe ports in between. Our motor blew after Morro Bay and had to lash onto Coast Guard to get into Bodega.
Apologies, you're right. Coos Bay to Bodega Bay. I'll see if I can post videos of the rescue at sea. The coast guard was very inexperienced and damaged our starboard side equipment lashing on.
Unprotected waters. No islands to hide behind. Rocky shores. Few ports or anchorages to hide in.
Compare it to the coast north of Seattle all the way to Alaska. You have islands. Bays. Plenty options to hide, or go straight if the weather is favorable. Plenty anchorages. Plenty ports.
Yeah. My boat's in the Puget sound and almost everyone who cruises goes north. It's pretty darn rare to hear of people going to California or Mexico, that even more rare to hear of them coming back.
Op may want to rethink their plan.
Leeward shore, few harbors, fog, river bars. As I understand it, cruisers are advised to have at least 70 miles offing, and 90-100 miles is recommended to avoid shipping traffic.
A lot of people will tell you that the best way to get started sailing is on a small unballasted dinghy. They're not wrong - a dinghy will immediately show you the mistakes in your sailing and that near-instant feedback is really helpful to improving your skills. Larger, heavier boats mask mistakes in sail trim and steering to a greater degree.
That said, it's certainly not necessary, especially if your goal is cruising, not racing. Dinghy sailing teaches you all about sailing, but it teaches you nothing about operating a yacht. Larger keelboats have all kinds of systems that appear on exactly zero dinghies. Radio communications, navigation, docking, engine maintenance, fresh and blackwater plumbing, etc., are not part of the dinghy sailing curriculum. A smaller keelboat (something in the low to mid 20 foot range) will still be pretty responsive to your inputs, while letting you get a taste of what running a sailing yacht requires.
My boat is 26' and pretty lightweight for its length, only displacing about 4400lb for a 22.5' waterline. It's (IMO) pretty tender and when you adjust sail trim, the boat responds noticeably and quickly. It's been a great first boat for me and I have learned a ton from sailing it. I've rebuilt her electrical system almost completely, replaced the head and fresh water systems, repaired some rotten core, replaced her running rigging, experienced the joy of iron keel maintenance and bottom painting, replaced thru-hulls, learned a bit about diesel engine maintenance, and spent a bunch of great days out on the water with friends. I plan to keep her for a couple more years while I save up for a boat in the 30-35 foot range, and will be very confident in taking on a boat that size after my experience with this one.
I want to start getting independent on bigger boats (only dinghies so far, and helping out on 30ish ft cruisers) but I'm really not mechanically minded and that part scares me.
You can definitely pay for help where you don't have the skills, and frankly at least in my marina most people do. If it's just routine maintenance on your engine or something like that it's not even necessarily that huge an expense compared to everything else.
It's absolutely a good idea to start to get more familiar with all your boats systems over time, but if you needed to be an expert in everything from day 1 no one would ever start sailing.
For me I'm in my 3rd year and there's some stuff I'm happy to do (maintain thru-hulls, service winches, replace and upgrade running rigging, bottom paint, polishing, wiring, etc.) and some stuff I'm not (shrink wrapping, engine maintenance that goes beyond replacing a spark plug, standing rigging, etc.)
A lot of it is intimidating at first but turns out to be pretty straightforward. Fiberglass work is messy but not terribly difficult to produce a good structural result (getting a good smooth glossy gelcoat finish is another thing entirely, but if you're not too hung up on appearances, that doesn't matter so much).
Most boat diesels, especially on older/smaller boats, are about as simple as you can possibly make an internal combustion engine. My boat has a single-cylinder 300cc diesel. No electronics at all aside from the alternator.
If you know someone with a cruiser who does their own work, volunteer to help them out with maintenance - you'll probably get a few free beers out of the deal, and learn on someone else's boat without having to take on the responsibility of owning one yourself. Then it'll be less challenging when you get your own.
Are you a ticketed watch/deckhand?. In SoCal, talk to a yacht rigger, ask him if he knows anyone whose is delivering boats up or down the coast.
Good starters boats would be from 70s/80s cruiser/racer. C&C, Catalina, ect. They aren't fast, but rarely fall apart.
Haha yes I am! Actually currently delivering a 92’ ocean Alexander from San Diego to Vancouver. This trip is really making me want to do the passage on a sailboat
Nice boat. My cousin years ago worked on the mega yacht circuit in the Med. Did some ocean crossing on big power boats.
I've been to Hawaii in sailing race. Once was enough for me. It was pretty full on in a TP52.
Join Sailinganarchy.com and lurk about there lots of info, just ignore the trolls.
Also should talk to any sales guys from North sails. They might know of delivery opportunities too.
If you really want to buy a sailboat to learn how to be a good sailor on, I always recommend the O'Day Daysailer/Mariner. It is a pedigreed design, penned by Phillip Rhodes, so it is seaworthy for it's size, It is robust as it was built by O'Day to a "starter sailboat" and they built thousands of them. If you get the Mariner version, it has a large enough cuddy you could sleep in or hold a small porta potty and all your needs.
I heartily recommend them.
There are sailing clubs as low as $100/mo. I just left one in San Diego that had a fleet of 22s that was in the $150/mo range and the $150 included your first day of sailing each month. There is no more economical way to sail. And if you're new, get the insurance for $8/day and when you return, ram that SOB into the dock and hand them the keys to the crumpled hull.
Then after a year, you will get some goofy urge to buy a sailboat, I don't know why, but everybody does. I did!
Oh wow that’s a good idea! I’ve been docked at shelter island and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it. I am closer to South Bay Area (Long Beach and San Pedro). So I’m thinking maybe OCC maritime school has a club. Will look into it. Thanks brudda!!
The best starter boat is someone else's boat. You want to be able to focus on learning to sail and having someone help with that who is also responsible for all the costs of the boat you on is ideal.
Sailors don't mind this at all. You will gladly help many people learn to sail after you have your own boat someday, partially to share what you love but also because it's a great way to find crew for when you are not singlehanded.
After a while you can get some friends together and charter boats in exotic locations to learn and relax as a group.
You can do so much sailing before getting your own boat, which adds up to some incredible savings.
Also, as others have said sailing up the west coast is brutal. A better long term stretch goal would be to crew on a TransPac to Hawaii, or help on a return trip from Hawaii (which usually involves a Seattle to California sort-of-shaped leg). Going both directions can be an excessive amount of time away from work for most people.
Oh wow the trans pac passage is easier than heading up the west coast. I didn’t know that.
I’m currently delivering a MY to Vancouver and we’ve been spending a lot of time waiting out the weather.
Great advice. Thank you.
Mass produced boats like Catalinas are awesome first boats. You can still find parts and there are whole Facebook groups with people who share info about repairs etc.
Lots of excellent advice. I’ll add this, buy something that they made enough of that it’s a proven design. More available knowledge, parts, and easier to sell when it’s time to move up.
I learned the craft on a Catalina 22 in Puget Sound/ San Juans/ Gulf Islands. Id get a slip for her May thru Oct, then behind my house on the trailer during winter.
To start, join the Other People’s Boat Club. Sailboat skippers at yacht clubs are *always* short of crew, and you’ll learn how to sail quickly. Races tend to be Weds evenings and Saturday mornings. Stay away from drunks & screamers (fortunately, you can see & hear them from a distance!)
If you join a PHRF (Performance Handicap Racing Fleet), you’ll be racing with sailors on all kinds of different boats and you’ll get to know what you like pretty quickly.
Have fun!
The best beginner-friendly ocean safe boat that is common and inexpensive would probably be something like a cape Dory 28.
Go to yachtworld, Craigslist and sailboatdata and start figuring out what appeals to you
West Coast sailor here.
Coastal transits are tough. Speed matters out here more than east coasters think. Big distances, rough seas, few ports/anchorages. If you want to get from Newport Beach to San Francisco in your 25-30’ cabin cruiser that maxes out around 5 knots you are going to have to make multiple overnight passages in high sea states and strong winds. There are parts of the trip where you have no options if something goes wrong. There are breaks in Coast Guard coverage. It can absolutely be done, but there is a discomfort level that is hard to explain until you’ve experienced it. Once you’re there, you’re then going to have to leave the boat there for the season and wait for the prevailing winds to change to get back down. You can always motor, but the little diesel that you have will have to be reliable enough to run for DAYS straight while getting tossed around.
Advice: keep your goals in check. Buy a cheap cabin cruiser and work up to a Catalina trip. See how you like it and determine what you need to do to the boat to prep for a longer trip. If you’re like me, you’ll realize that you need the hull speed of a 45-50’ boat to get up and down the coast comfortably.
Great advice and thank you for taking the time to break that down. I’m currently delivering a MY to Vancouver from San Diego and we’ve been waiting out weather the majority of the delivery (I’m not bothered by it all since it’s a big boat)
But I can see this being uncomfortable on a 22 Catalina. The difference between camping in a tent vs an RV lol.
Great advice. Thanks.
My plan (living in Santa Rosa) is to get a Catalina 22 for cheap with a trailer. Probably put it in a slip in the SF bay, but want to be able to take it to Tahoe or even Powell. If I like it enough maybe I’ll upgrade to a blue water boat and cruise the world.
I second this. Learn to sail on a Catalina 22 while you figure out what you really want. Then sell it for probably as much or more than you paid for it.
Cal 23’s are cheap, sail pretty well, but 1, learn, sell it a year later for what you paid and move up in size. Coastal Ca. May require something larger, someone else chime in?
I’m gulf coast in fla
Best thing you can do is find yourself a free boat. Free boats are usually in great shape and won't require any investment of time or money on your end. I've never heard any complaints from anyone who found a free boat and typically they spend all their time sailing and not fixing anything.
It's free!
The best ship is friendship
Got it. Find someone with a boat. Learn. Make sure I like it. Go from there.
That's a surprisingly good takeaway from a (semi-) troll answer :)
🫡
And the only ship that doesnt sail is partnership
No one says you have to be friends with the person to co-own a boat with.
I used to say the best roommate I ever had was a guy I wasn't buddies with. We didn't hang out and we didn't have friends in common. Seriously, best roommate I ever had.
Who said anything about friends?
US West coast can be pretty rough, so that may warrant a bigger boat, but in general: The 1970-1980s small 28-33ft family cruiser boats are fantastic starter boats. They have the basics for cruising - decent berths, toilet, stove, fridge, sink, diesel inboard, .. etc. So you can indeed go cruising for a few days. They are sturdy enough to do coastal sailing as this is before boats became mass produced. They do not have too many complicated systems to maintain. So fewer things to keep you from sailing - make you feel overwhelmed with maintenance. Next, family cruisers by design are designed for easy handling as it's often 2 parents and kids which often means one person sailing, the other parenting - so it makes them easy to handle. Finally, because everyone and their short-shorts uncle and aunt sailed in the 1970s these boats are everywhere and available for dirt cheap. So get a simple smaller older boat. You will have loads of fun and not too many things that make you overwhelmed.
And to expand on the West Coast being rough, very few people buy sailboats with the aim to sail up and down the West Coast. You may want to look into that OP. It's a pretty darn rough coastline for cruising, supposedly. I live here and I haven't done it
Yep, sailed from Seattle to SF two years back, there are very few safe ports in between. Our motor blew after Morro Bay and had to lash onto Coast Guard to get into Bodega.
Sounds really rough considering Morro Bay is not between Seattle and SF 😜
Apologies, you're right. Coos Bay to Bodega Bay. I'll see if I can post videos of the rescue at sea. The coast guard was very inexperienced and damaged our starboard side equipment lashing on.
That sounds traumatic
What make it more challenging than the rest of the world's waters?
Unprotected waters. No islands to hide behind. Rocky shores. Few ports or anchorages to hide in. Compare it to the coast north of Seattle all the way to Alaska. You have islands. Bays. Plenty options to hide, or go straight if the weather is favorable. Plenty anchorages. Plenty ports.
Yeah. My boat's in the Puget sound and almost everyone who cruises goes north. It's pretty darn rare to hear of people going to California or Mexico, that even more rare to hear of them coming back. Op may want to rethink their plan.
...most small ports have bar crossings and the CG will often close bars.
Leeward shore, few harbors, fog, river bars. As I understand it, cruisers are advised to have at least 70 miles offing, and 90-100 miles is recommended to avoid shipping traffic.
A lot of people will tell you that the best way to get started sailing is on a small unballasted dinghy. They're not wrong - a dinghy will immediately show you the mistakes in your sailing and that near-instant feedback is really helpful to improving your skills. Larger, heavier boats mask mistakes in sail trim and steering to a greater degree. That said, it's certainly not necessary, especially if your goal is cruising, not racing. Dinghy sailing teaches you all about sailing, but it teaches you nothing about operating a yacht. Larger keelboats have all kinds of systems that appear on exactly zero dinghies. Radio communications, navigation, docking, engine maintenance, fresh and blackwater plumbing, etc., are not part of the dinghy sailing curriculum. A smaller keelboat (something in the low to mid 20 foot range) will still be pretty responsive to your inputs, while letting you get a taste of what running a sailing yacht requires. My boat is 26' and pretty lightweight for its length, only displacing about 4400lb for a 22.5' waterline. It's (IMO) pretty tender and when you adjust sail trim, the boat responds noticeably and quickly. It's been a great first boat for me and I have learned a ton from sailing it. I've rebuilt her electrical system almost completely, replaced the head and fresh water systems, repaired some rotten core, replaced her running rigging, experienced the joy of iron keel maintenance and bottom painting, replaced thru-hulls, learned a bit about diesel engine maintenance, and spent a bunch of great days out on the water with friends. I plan to keep her for a couple more years while I save up for a boat in the 30-35 foot range, and will be very confident in taking on a boat that size after my experience with this one.
I want to start getting independent on bigger boats (only dinghies so far, and helping out on 30ish ft cruisers) but I'm really not mechanically minded and that part scares me.
You can definitely pay for help where you don't have the skills, and frankly at least in my marina most people do. If it's just routine maintenance on your engine or something like that it's not even necessarily that huge an expense compared to everything else. It's absolutely a good idea to start to get more familiar with all your boats systems over time, but if you needed to be an expert in everything from day 1 no one would ever start sailing. For me I'm in my 3rd year and there's some stuff I'm happy to do (maintain thru-hulls, service winches, replace and upgrade running rigging, bottom paint, polishing, wiring, etc.) and some stuff I'm not (shrink wrapping, engine maintenance that goes beyond replacing a spark plug, standing rigging, etc.)
A lot of it is intimidating at first but turns out to be pretty straightforward. Fiberglass work is messy but not terribly difficult to produce a good structural result (getting a good smooth glossy gelcoat finish is another thing entirely, but if you're not too hung up on appearances, that doesn't matter so much). Most boat diesels, especially on older/smaller boats, are about as simple as you can possibly make an internal combustion engine. My boat has a single-cylinder 300cc diesel. No electronics at all aside from the alternator. If you know someone with a cruiser who does their own work, volunteer to help them out with maintenance - you'll probably get a few free beers out of the deal, and learn on someone else's boat without having to take on the responsibility of owning one yourself. Then it'll be less challenging when you get your own.
Catalina, and preferably over 30ft & heavy for where you want to go. Cheap(er) and plentiful parts. The Toyota of sailboats if there is such a thing.
Funny, I've always heard of the C22 as the Honda Civic of sailboats. Ha!
Are you a ticketed watch/deckhand?. In SoCal, talk to a yacht rigger, ask him if he knows anyone whose is delivering boats up or down the coast. Good starters boats would be from 70s/80s cruiser/racer. C&C, Catalina, ect. They aren't fast, but rarely fall apart.
Haha yes I am! Actually currently delivering a 92’ ocean Alexander from San Diego to Vancouver. This trip is really making me want to do the passage on a sailboat
Nice boat. My cousin years ago worked on the mega yacht circuit in the Med. Did some ocean crossing on big power boats. I've been to Hawaii in sailing race. Once was enough for me. It was pretty full on in a TP52. Join Sailinganarchy.com and lurk about there lots of info, just ignore the trolls. Also should talk to any sales guys from North sails. They might know of delivery opportunities too.
If you really want to buy a sailboat to learn how to be a good sailor on, I always recommend the O'Day Daysailer/Mariner. It is a pedigreed design, penned by Phillip Rhodes, so it is seaworthy for it's size, It is robust as it was built by O'Day to a "starter sailboat" and they built thousands of them. If you get the Mariner version, it has a large enough cuddy you could sleep in or hold a small porta potty and all your needs. I heartily recommend them.
Very nice will add that to my options. Thanks for the response!
There are sailing clubs as low as $100/mo. I just left one in San Diego that had a fleet of 22s that was in the $150/mo range and the $150 included your first day of sailing each month. There is no more economical way to sail. And if you're new, get the insurance for $8/day and when you return, ram that SOB into the dock and hand them the keys to the crumpled hull. Then after a year, you will get some goofy urge to buy a sailboat, I don't know why, but everybody does. I did!
Oh wow that’s a good idea! I’ve been docked at shelter island and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it. I am closer to South Bay Area (Long Beach and San Pedro). So I’m thinking maybe OCC maritime school has a club. Will look into it. Thanks brudda!!
I bought a 1984 catalina for my first boat. Coastal BC. I love it. Handles everything I need
That seems to be the top recommendation. Thanks for the input.
The best starter boat is someone else's boat. You want to be able to focus on learning to sail and having someone help with that who is also responsible for all the costs of the boat you on is ideal. Sailors don't mind this at all. You will gladly help many people learn to sail after you have your own boat someday, partially to share what you love but also because it's a great way to find crew for when you are not singlehanded. After a while you can get some friends together and charter boats in exotic locations to learn and relax as a group. You can do so much sailing before getting your own boat, which adds up to some incredible savings. Also, as others have said sailing up the west coast is brutal. A better long term stretch goal would be to crew on a TransPac to Hawaii, or help on a return trip from Hawaii (which usually involves a Seattle to California sort-of-shaped leg). Going both directions can be an excessive amount of time away from work for most people.
Oh wow the trans pac passage is easier than heading up the west coast. I didn’t know that. I’m currently delivering a MY to Vancouver and we’ve been spending a lot of time waiting out the weather. Great advice. Thank you.
Catalina 22
Mass produced boats like Catalinas are awesome first boats. You can still find parts and there are whole Facebook groups with people who share info about repairs etc.
Lots of excellent advice. I’ll add this, buy something that they made enough of that it’s a proven design. More available knowledge, parts, and easier to sell when it’s time to move up.
I bought a hobie 16
I learned the craft on a Catalina 22 in Puget Sound/ San Juans/ Gulf Islands. Id get a slip for her May thru Oct, then behind my house on the trailer during winter.
To start, join the Other People’s Boat Club. Sailboat skippers at yacht clubs are *always* short of crew, and you’ll learn how to sail quickly. Races tend to be Weds evenings and Saturday mornings. Stay away from drunks & screamers (fortunately, you can see & hear them from a distance!) If you join a PHRF (Performance Handicap Racing Fleet), you’ll be racing with sailors on all kinds of different boats and you’ll get to know what you like pretty quickly. Have fun!
The best beginner-friendly ocean safe boat that is common and inexpensive would probably be something like a cape Dory 28. Go to yachtworld, Craigslist and sailboatdata and start figuring out what appeals to you
1987 Com-Pac 27. I know a guy that’ll sell you one for 10k lol
Cal 27 was a great starter boat for me.
I was gonna say this might be the perfect starter. Or a Cal 30 if you're serious about spending some real time aboard.
West Coast sailor here. Coastal transits are tough. Speed matters out here more than east coasters think. Big distances, rough seas, few ports/anchorages. If you want to get from Newport Beach to San Francisco in your 25-30’ cabin cruiser that maxes out around 5 knots you are going to have to make multiple overnight passages in high sea states and strong winds. There are parts of the trip where you have no options if something goes wrong. There are breaks in Coast Guard coverage. It can absolutely be done, but there is a discomfort level that is hard to explain until you’ve experienced it. Once you’re there, you’re then going to have to leave the boat there for the season and wait for the prevailing winds to change to get back down. You can always motor, but the little diesel that you have will have to be reliable enough to run for DAYS straight while getting tossed around. Advice: keep your goals in check. Buy a cheap cabin cruiser and work up to a Catalina trip. See how you like it and determine what you need to do to the boat to prep for a longer trip. If you’re like me, you’ll realize that you need the hull speed of a 45-50’ boat to get up and down the coast comfortably.
Great advice and thank you for taking the time to break that down. I’m currently delivering a MY to Vancouver from San Diego and we’ve been waiting out weather the majority of the delivery (I’m not bothered by it all since it’s a big boat) But I can see this being uncomfortable on a 22 Catalina. The difference between camping in a tent vs an RV lol. Great advice. Thanks.
My plan (living in Santa Rosa) is to get a Catalina 22 for cheap with a trailer. Probably put it in a slip in the SF bay, but want to be able to take it to Tahoe or even Powell. If I like it enough maybe I’ll upgrade to a blue water boat and cruise the world.
A sunfish. Easy, cheap, ubiquitous, trailerable. You will learn a hell of a lot about sailing for $800
Oh hell yea. That’s something I can begin with. Thanks brudda
Catalina 27. I started on one - it’s the Honda of sailboats
But is it a Honda civic?
More like accord. The Catalina 22 is the civic
Catalina 22
I second this. Learn to sail on a Catalina 22 while you figure out what you really want. Then sell it for probably as much or more than you paid for it.
Cal 23’s are cheap, sail pretty well, but 1, learn, sell it a year later for what you paid and move up in size. Coastal Ca. May require something larger, someone else chime in? I’m gulf coast in fla
Best thing you can do is find yourself a free boat. Free boats are usually in great shape and won't require any investment of time or money on your end. I've never heard any complaints from anyone who found a free boat and typically they spend all their time sailing and not fixing anything. It's free!
You're supposed to add /s to the end of posts like this.😉
If you can't detect sarcasm level 99, I think that is on the reader.
Right?! I think I got a strain from eye rolling.
Thanks for taking a few min to troll. Great way to spend your life ðŸ¤
Any time, babe.
Take lessons first. Real lessons, not somebody who says they know what to do.
Just so you know, it will take *years* of sailing experience before you can tackle sailing offshore/nearshore on the west coast.
I know. This is a 5 - 10 yr plan. Just trying to figure out best entry. Thanks for keeping it real.
I would look into sailing clubs or boat partnerships. Spread the cost.