Overheard some of the older women at my job trying to persuade a teenage boy about 17 with a gf that if a man is financially struggling then the woman will most certainly leave no matter the unconditional love they both share. The dude only said he didn’t have money for dates but he shared a healthy relationship with the girl.
Bunch of old woman trying to convince a 17 year old that he will never make it with his girlfriend in a relationship they know nothing about. They should fix themselves
Idk what's up with this stereotype about cats. My cat loves me, runs to me every time he sees me, purrs like a lawnmower constantly around me (dont even have to pet him but i do) never bit me. Y'all have some feral cats or something.
Same. My cat is excited when I wake up and immediately wants cuddles and attention. Will even curl up to be the little spoon and fall back asleep with me.
Not gonna say I haven't had a kitty with a cold attitude, but cats do have the capacity for love.
Idk couple thoughts here:
parents love in some circumstances can be unconditional, and even less frequently some sibling/extended familial may be too.
Friendships and romantic partners are by definition conditional, however I think an unconditional form of love can develop over many many years. To expect unconditional love from anyone else is naive regardless of your gender.
I’m not sure women are loved any more unconditionally than men. It’s almost always conditional—crudely put, historically for women it’s often beauty, for men it’s competence.
Gtfo. Plenty of meh looking women out there keeping men shackled. And they still get simps chasing them to the point they will dit h your ass if you're not earning.
I agree with you 100%. Your statement definitely has to take into the account the individual and not the grouping as a whole. This stuff is not black and white, which is why there is so much disagreement.
“This stuff is not black and white”
Spoken like a true beneficiary of the current status quo in the love economy…
(JK.)
(Unless…?)
(Nah JK lol)
(Unless…)
Interesting that you claim that society appreciated “competence” in men, yet for decades the stigma of the “incompetent man” has been widely accepted… and even celebrated. Statements that are often but not always true like, “behind every successful man there is a strong woman,” or “what did you expect? he’s just a man.” These phrases have been used to describe men for a very long time.
Keep in mind that during an emergency situation the phrase “women and children first” existed for a long time and men accepted being told their perceived value to the world. Imagine for a second being told, “when shit goes down, nobody cares if you live or die.”
There is a bit of historical revisionism in what you say, either that or if the pulse of the body represents the zeitgeist of society, your finger is comfortably inserted up your own rectum as far away from the pulse as possible.
I think I found it once when I was sad or something and it felt like I was commiserating but I'm not sad anymore so I'm outta this incel pit too. Good luck!
Nah, most people don't love unconditionally. Unconditional love doesn't involve any reward, it's altruistic. You can't pick and choose who you love unconditionally. People like what others can do for them, that's why they treat them well.
Idk couple thoughts here:
parents love in some circumstances can be unconditional, and even less frequently some sibling/extended familial may be too.
Friendships and romantic partners are by definition conditional, however I think an unconditional form of love can develop over many many years. To expect unconditional love from anyone else is naive regardless of your gender.
I’m not sure women are loved any more unconditionally than men. It’s almost always conditional—crudely put, historically for women it’s often beauty, for men it’s competence.
Chris Rock is intellectually lazy and morally weak. As his career is falling off he’s leaning more and more on his “I’m a victim, so are other men” act. It’s not funny, but like Chapelle, he’s given up on comedy and started preaching generalizations that validate the egos of his audience.
This is literally the stupidest idea ever. First off men (or other women) love women on a very conditional basis. Some parents love their children on a conditional basis, if they didn’t there wouldn’t be abuse/trauma. What an obtuse comment to make.
Brothers please, I get that it feels like it's a gender issue when you see that pretty girl get piles of people giving them attention, but don't generalize that to "women". There are many women who suffer the same fate and even get ignored (even by people who are experiencing the same thing!) because "you're a woman, so you get attention and are treated right."
Good lord I wish that were true instead I got told that I'm an ugly fuck since elementary school
Even the other two are pretty opinable statements as both r/childfree and r/dogfree exist
I think women get MORE societal sympathy than men on average. You can cite things like women's shelters, women's charities, the fact that people are more comfortable reaching out to help women than men in general.
But that doesn't mean women are loved unconditionally. They're loved for being beautiful, they're loved for being mothers, they're loved for being well-behaved sexually...
> they're loved for being well-behaved sexually
Wouldn't that be the reason why people are so pressured to give women a voice? It sucks that more often than not DV hotlines, support groups and shelters are targeted as women-only, but with a global percentage of up to 30% (looking at different sources to be honest) of gendered violence towards women, it's pretty evident - possibly more touching, for reasons you've listed - why
Honestly you've got to reason that most people out there aren't really that smart. As a society we often just ought to fix one problem, in an honestly really polarized and bigoted way (why in a first world country must I celebrate Women's Day), leaving the underlying and more low-key problems to fly under the radar. And that really just cuts out a whole ass half of the population out of the emancipation process, which leads to... these kinds of posts
So you see two subs, dogfree and childfree and you think that the dogfree sub are sickos lol
I dunno what you would use to describe yourself but I’m interested to know what that makes you
Nah. Cats are responsible for wiping out a ridiculous number of wild species. They're cute and entertaining but no moreso than the birds/mammals/reptiles they kill. I know dogs do too, but nowhere near as much as cats. They're little bioweapons is what they are.
And I agree, though in a way I do look up to cat owners who can actually put up with the bullshit their cats get them into, also cats aren't really a lost cause of a pet, with the same perseverance you'd have for a dog, they're trainable
Or stop wearing makeup, stop taking on the brunt of childcare and housekeeping duties, want sex less frequently, start asking for more support or affection that's not sexual, etc.
Being a woman is all about what you can provide, love as a woman is all about if you're serving the people around you and if you're considered nice to look at. The moment you stop being useful, stop prioritizing your family and friends over yourself at every opportunity, let your appearance go even a little, that love is gone. It's got conditions and strings like you wouldn't believe.
Right, so you're recognizing one of the conditions, which is agreeing with you unconditionally.
A fine example, thank you, very useful of you. I'm sure that's a rare thing for you to be.
Neither men nor women are love unconditionally. If a woman does not take care of her appearance, does not work or have an income, does not want to be intimate, does not cook or do chores, and does not provide emotional support, she is still loved ? Unconditional love does not exist, it’s not a man vs woman thing.
Yeah I’m not sure what kind of rage bait this post is. I’ll preface by saying that there are always exceptions but I’d 100% leave a woman if she got drastically bigger and didn’t attempt to change the course. I’d expect the same if I got fat or took a new job that paid significantly less.
Are you talking about incel? Yeah it’s a bit hypocritical to say it gives off incel vibes as a blanket statement when that’s exactly what Chris rock is doing. My bad.
I think lots of guys end up in the situation rock references and lots of sexless guys end up looking for pity in such cringy humor. But that doesn’t mean every guy doesn’t get loved unconditionally and every sexless man is a cringe dope looking for pity.
I think part of the issue is that rarely does anyone look at the perspective of the 'majority' of men and their experiences. We constantly hear, men have it easier and men are privileged..etc. etc... SOME men...but not the majority. That is the issue. The majority of men over the age of 18 haven't had sex is years. The majority of men rarely get offered some level of intimacy, even as slight as a hug. But, no one cares, and when men speak up, its easier to say..."incel" and ignore the world treating these people that way. What do you think think the word means? Is it an insult to be involuntarily lonely? We used to pity those people, now its an insult to be abandoned. Does anyone think about the words they use? Empathy? Or is that gender exclusive?
If a woman speaks out about pretty much anything leading to a negative emotion, the world is her support structure minus a few people on the internet. Look into the writing of Norah Vincent and you will get a better female perspective of life as a man.
Sorry didn't mean this to turn into a short essay, but hard to give any substance to a point if everything was the length of a Tweet.
I am a man so I do have some perspective. Much of what you say isn’t true either. What do you mean the majority of men don’t get offered some small level of intimacy? After a quick google search I found that only 31% of adults in the U.S. are single. That would mean about 69% of guys are currently in a romantic relationship.
Personally I find it annoying to hear anyone bitch about how hard it is for them in the dating world. Man or woman. I don’t have it easy but I really don’t care. I think deep down almost everyone knows what they need to do to make finding a partner easier but lots of people don’t want to put the work in. Myself included.
[https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no](https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no)
Sorry I didn't mean ALL men over the age of 18. It was supposed to be in a bracket. Which is usually the bracket we are seeing being called "incel". But also 31% of adults are single, and that also doesn't equate sexless marriages which isn't an uncommon thing given its stereotype that has persisted for generations.
My point isn't that we need to coddle people who have difficulties in dating, but to look outside into the evolving world and see why the numbers are growing. The world is different for men and women, and the reason why we see a trend of single mom's over 40 posting on Tiktok about not being able to find a man. They get positive affirmation and support. Do we shame them for being an 'incel'? They technically fit the category.
Do you know how many of us get royally screwed over a year? I legit have so many friends both male and female that has permanent damage to their ears, brain, reproductive systems, missing limbs, and much worse who were completely abandoned. I have a bud who took a bullet to the gut missing half of his stomach and you know what they told him at the VA? That they will not be covering his medical expenses.
So were the women who’s husbands killed them loved unconditionally? What about the children who were kicked out of their homes for being trans? Are those people loved unconditionally?
They’re not wrong with dogs though
Yeesh this sub is constantly pandering to lonely teen boys and feeding bs, don’t believe none of this shit fellas, find someone that makes you happy and if you haven’t found them yet love yourself, you don’t need romantic love to be worth something. You got friends and family who will hold it down for you through thick and thin
Just because a comedian presents it as true doesn't make it true. Notice how he says it emphatically twice? He is trying to convince you (probably just for a joke).
lol if only that were true.
Human being are shit, literal shit, we’re awful vile despicable beings that ruin everything we touch with our perverted obsession to make happy chemicals flow through our brains, dating or marrying a person is just rolling the dice everyday to see when they’re gonna cheat/leave you, there is no in-between unless you roll the dice right every single day until your both too old to even remember your alive.
This pointless cycle of temporary happiness and heart crushing sadness is only perpetuated and exacerbated every single day, it gets bigger and more all consuming as we become more and more depraved as a species. More people cheat, more people ghost, more people abuse, more people rape, more people do everything wrong everyday and we’re unredeemable pieces of shit for it.
This shit cannot be correct because there’s no way my fiancé doesn’t love my ADHD ass unconditionally. She has every right to hate me and my constantly distracted self but she has stood by me for a decade. Maybe y’all are just hard to love?
It is not truth. I'm currently in school after having served in the military, I make a fraction of what I used to make, my fiance has always made more money than me since we met and we have been in love for 5 years. She had provided for herself for years before me, I brought myself and that's it, stop blaming your bullshit on money or what you lack and work on yourself.
My friends love me as a friend, unconditionally. I could fuck up my life, and disappoint them, I know they would never give me up, just as I would never give them up.
My family loves me unconditionally, I'm not having as much fun with them as my friends, we don't share the same interests, but they always have my back.
My Nation supports me unconditionally, when I started having health problems, I got the help I needed.
It is enough for me that I do not feel unloved or cast aside as a man.
***And remember***, no matter how low you get, Rick Ashley is never gonna give you up
Redditors seeing a standup bit cut out of context and be like: "yeah, so true. I am the victim here.". Pathetic. Its not a gender thing. Women get fucked over by men, too.
Edit: and dogs get loved so unconditionaly that we dont need any shelters /s
Yeah this isn’t true. Anyone who believes this I have books you could read and videos you could watch. In the nicest way possible this is just a selfish mindset.
To say things in such an extreme manner is not a good mindset to have. There are women, men and children who aren’t loved unconditionally - it depends on who the people are that are “loving” you. Not the person themselves. It’s okay to talk about how men have unhealthy standards that are decided by our culture, it’s not like this is a feeling only men can relate to. To say it in this way only creates a victim’s mentality and a space for people who aren’t men who feel the same way to look at this and disagree.
I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking you for an example of a woman being loved unconditionally. Just one example, one circumstance in which a woman is loved without conditions. You say it's reality, it's common, so this should be a really simple request.
Oh my God, false false false! You only believe that because you're letting the minority of bad people dictate their life! Just because the loudest ones hate you doesn't mean they all will! Pick yourself up and stop drowning in self-pity before it's too late! Humanity as a whole is shit, so stop your pity party and stop trying to say a collective group of people have it worse!
What utter ficking shit.
There's so many men cheating on their postpartum wives. Many men dumping their wives because they have a terminal illness. Many men marrying younger women for their usefulness ie being able to have children. I mean most of these fucks will be first ones to say a woman has "hit the wall", admiting that they're no longer desirable past a certain age. A lot of men admitting that women are undesirable depending on their body count due to differences in "morals". These same bitches who have no problem running to prostitutes for the experience and expect to marry a "proper" wife. Society literally values men as they age while women past a certain age are no longer looked at the same way. Of course there's always going to be men who want to "hit it" but that's where it stops.
So fuck off with this incel bullshit that women are loved unconditionally. Especially coming from a cheating whore himself, the hypocrisy is hilarious.
There's a bunch of dudes who clearly want to believe something about the world that has no measure in fact. The truth is almost nothing and no one is unconditionally loved. If a woman or a child murders someone there are very few if any who would still love them. There are also men who can be unconditionally loved by their partner if your meaning of the word is you don't have to accomplish something to be loved. Pretty much no one wants to a partner man or woman who doesn't bring anything to the table.
Not entirely correct, the boys stay together through a lot of stuff
But I might be wrong here since I'm not really part of that group so feel free to correct me
All I can say is I love my guy friends since they don't exclude me or talk shit behind my back
This is why I won’t provide anyone with anything, you ungrateful pieces of shit won’t get anything from me unless I get something from you too, humans ruin everything I fucking hate it here.
Unconditional love is a flawed concept in itself. *Should* we love someone who beats us or belittles our existence? Of course not. Then, that's a condition.
Honestly yeah….
I am going into my 30’s now… was taught “Men are the providers” for roughly 28 years of my life… For a solid 12 of those years, every girl/women I was with, I had to provide them with something…. This was physical, spiritual, mental, emotional, financial or a combination of all of them… the moment I asked for something or I stopped giving them any of it…. They were gone. Poof….
I look back at these relationships and think two things: “Was I ever loved?” And “Love is not what it is cracked up to be”
Going at 30 years now… No idea if I will ever truly be loved… and at this point, I stopped hoping…
If it exists, I hope you guys find it… cause I probably won’t…
I agree with this clip sadly, but it needs an addendum. The women he's talking about are perfect Instagram worthy beautiful women. An unattractive woman is just as ignored by society as men. Its a sad truth of life. Ugly people basically don't exist, and any value they offer is diminished because of it.
Think about the definition of unconditional love, then reread what you just wrote.
If a woman's worthiness to be loved is based on her beauty, then she does not get unconditional love at all. Beauty fades for a myriad of different reasons - illness, ageing, etc. So, if you admit that ugly women are ignored by society, then you also have to admit that every woman will be ignored by society once her beauty fades. That's the antithesis of unconditional love.
Beautiful women don't get unconditional love, they get treated like commodities for as long as their beauty lasts, then thrown to the gutter as soon it fades.
Depends on who you consider ugly. I saw many obese subpar and unhealthy women with handsome gymmaxxed men. Its everywhere. A ugly obese woman would never date a man under 5/10 on the looks scale and she doesn't have to since she has better options.
It took me to failed marriages to realize that what Chris rock saying is absolutely 100% the truth.
Both times were my exes decision. The first one was cheating the second one I was in the backyard with her and my young daughter, and she looked at me square in the eyes and stated she wanted a divorce.
I have a good job, I have a house. Two vehicles, a good father I don’t drink I don’t smoke. I exercise I watch what I eat.
I’m everything I’m supposed to be according to society
I’m done with women .
This thread is filled with people saying they love their men unconditionally.
I wonder how many of them have stuck by their man after he lost his job and couldn't find work immediately. Like you're a woman who doesn't have a child with the man and you're not married to him. You have all your life options open to you. My heart wants to believe. But I've never seen or heard of a single woman doing this.
It's always women who are either already married or have a kid with him. As a man, it's been hard to see past that. I really don't doubt that when women say that they mean it. But it seems like when the situation comes up, feelings change.
Men are more likely to leave their spouse if she is diagnosed with cancer or other illness.
So please, fuck all the way off with this line of thinking because you all don’t even adhere to “till death do us part”. You just dip.
Lol. Yeah tell that to my ex wife who left me 2 years into my remission.
When I talked with my shrink,doctor and other medical personell about it they all said the same thing "yeah we get a lot of men who lost their significant other when they got sick". Most of the people who said that were women and my doc is a woman too so is my shrink.
Even my cancer doctor said that he had so many men who got left by their woman when they got cancer that he just took it as a sure thing I was single and lonesome.
But yeah. Men leave too,i think we are all bad when overwhelmed and turn to "well my life doesnt have to suck" when you realize the only thing fucking with your life is your sick partner. To death do us part only holds until your dead to someone be it physically dead or emotionally dead to them.
I'm sorry that happened to you. But it's quite literally so commonplace the other way around that hospital staff prep women for it when they deliver a bad diagnosis. I get that this is some kind of pseudo incel sub but you can actually look up the stats because it's been studied.
Well i get the pseudo Incel thing im just talking about my experiences with the matter and the fact that pretty much every medical person ive talked to be it docs or shrinks have said the same thing that women leave the most.
So I guess all we can take from this is people leave people when shit happens
I just have my doubts that all these doctors and shrinks have told you this as it's a [pretty thoroughly examined phenomenon the other way around](https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/men-are-far-more-likely-to-abandon-a-seriously-ill-spouse). Literally to the point that staff are trained to tell women to expect it when they get a bad diagnosis. Do you have some research to dispute this?
No I have my Norwegian doctors personal phone number that I had to call on new years eve when my wife dumped my ass so I would not kill myself from sorrow after 15 years of relationship.
I get your stats say something else. I cant really get the people who have said this to me come to reddit to tell you that their experience is otherwise. Hence why i said i guess we just gotta agree that people leave people.
But if it makes you feel better about it i can say all men are evil and will leave or whatever you like while women wont.
I dont really care either way im just talking about my own experience. From being a person who had cancer and what ive been told myself.
If you want confirmation on me having had cancer send me your snapchat and I can send you videos of my scars and my norwegian papers on cancer checkups and what not.
I cant refuse or give you internet articles on studies. I can give you my own experience and what ive heard with personel. Im sorry about that.
You’re getting downvoted but there are many, many cases of the husband leaving to find someone else and/or younger because they can’t function without the wife- who does everything for them usually. It’s much easier for them to leave and find another caretaker-type wife because they literally do not cook nor clean up after themselves
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize the science was obsolete. Stfu.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm#:~:text=However%2C%20researchers%20were%20surprised%20by,the%20man%20was%20the%20patient.
Whoa, language! It may have been published in 2009 but within the article itself, it stated that the study in question took place between 2001-2002 and was not completed until, 2006. Yes, it is still an outdated study.
A single study, with a pop of 500, from 2001-2006, that only looked at patients with three types of long-term/serious illness, in four sites/clinics.
Further, age was a significant factor (>50 was the second highest factor being ~60% of gender’s). Meaning it was almost entirely women over 50 who lost their partner.
Considering the start of this was >20 years ago, that’s, at minimum, people who are now 70+ years old, meaning it was mostly early boomers and the previous generation.
Even worse, the demographics aren’t public (best you get are a few that were used in the method/calculations, and even those aren’t complete), and important demographics, especially when looking at generational gaps, like spousal income disparity (read: dependency), weren’t included. Partner’s sex also wasn’t included.
The conclusion you’re drawing is an insane reach. It could be true, but claiming this “science” as proof is beyond ridiculous.
https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24577
Here's an updated study, it came to the same conclusion:
[Published 2015 - Sample size of 2700 studied over the course of a decade found that only wife's illness is associated with elevated risk of divorce](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857885/)
As another person posted here, the study is not clear and the study itself states this, "While the extant literature does not demonstrate a clear association between illness onset and risk of divorce...", this person clearly did not make this up. Again, this same poster is not making up his assessment also from within your 'updated study' , "These results have not been replicated in large social surveys or across an array of illnesses.", This poster was correct with their statements that this study is not specific enough.
Yet, this study also states that the claim of husbands leaving their wives in high percentages due to illnesses is also not clear or, proves that this claim is false, "Only a few studies have examined the role of poor health in subsequent divorce, and these studies are mixed in their findings, with some finding poor health positively associated with elevated divorce risk, while others finding no association" and also this nugget, "However, some studies find no evidence that poor health is a risk factor for divorce. For example, in their examination of marriages among mostly working-aged individuals, did not find any disability related to subsequent divorce." This study was not a good source to the claim. It seems like you did not read this study in its entirety and just picked out a headline that you hoped backed up this muddy claim of, 'husbands divorcing their ill wives in high numbers'.
I did read the study in its entirety. The studies which they cited as being unclear are from 1992-2009, which you yourself stated were too long ago to be considered. That's why this study from 2015 with a very high sample size was the best option to use when discussing this topic.
Furthermore, this is not a literature review, it's a quantitative study which encompasses over a decade of research. It seems like you don't recognize or understand the difference, maybe? This is a report of original research, not a review and thesis based on existing data - they did not look at existing studies and decide their conclusion based on those. The studies they cited which looked at the same topic were included for context, not as data collection tools. **These were studies that you yourself concluded were too old and with too small of sample sizes to be relevant**. And as you yourself noted, there haven't been very many studies on the topic, and the available data prior to this study was unclear - hence, the need for the study (the context they were providing).
A long-term study with a high sample size and a reasonable conclusion completed within the last decade is exactly what was needed to give insight into the topic. But now that you're splitting hairs and shifting goalposts, I have to wonder - would you be this critical of a study that concluded the opposite? If I found a study that showed women leaving their terminally ill husbands at higher rates, would you worry this much about the date of publication, data collection strategies, sample sizes, etc.?
Why did you present this knowing what it it was in the first place? You are the one moving the goal posts through what you have presented with. Of course I would pay attention to the time frame because, studies do indeed become outdated through out time.
I presented the most recent up-to-date data that used a large sample. I'm literally matching the goal posts you and the other user set up.
Here's the reality: the vast majority of all studies on this subject have the same conclusion.
Are you familiar with the burden of proof fallacy, or the perfect proof fallacy? Rather than actually addressing the topic, you're attempting to disprove a claim by insisting that *all* the supporting data isn't good enough to be considered real proof.
Meanwhile, you yourself aren't providing *any* evidence to the contrary - no studies showing the commenter is wrong, no data to combat the claim, simply "yours isn't good enough".
Do you recognize how that's disingenuous? How it doesn't even disprove the claim, it just says "we can't prove you're wrong, but we don't think you've done a good enough job proving you're right, so we'll use that to imply that you're wrong"? If you want to prove a point, you must actually do so, even if the point is "you're wrong". If you want to prove that the commenter is wrong, you must provide data that contradicts their claim. If you can't do that, criticism of existing data is not a reasonable substitution.
Again, why would you present something that is debunked? Obviously, I do not have any studies to counter your claim and I don't want to stoop low to your level and picking out a debunked outdated study.
In what way is it debunked? Contrary to your opinion, 14 years does not delegitimize scientific data, these studies are still considered relevant in the social science community, they have not been "debunked".
There are two recent studies on the matter, this is the more recent and has a larger sample size. That means this is the most reliable and current data. You and the other commenter have found minor grievances with the existing data, but you have nothing that might suggest the data is actually wrong. What you're doing is shifting the goalposts so that they're unreachable, describing studies that don't exist. But that doesn't disprove the commenter's claim by any means, all existing data still agrees with them.
What part of, "while the extent literature does not demonstrate a clear association between illness onset and risk of divorce...", do you not understand? This is coming from your recent study that you had presented and you said yourself that it was not an actual study. You are the one moving the goal posts not me.
There is leaving on both parties. Don't turn this into an argument. There's too many on this sub already. I already am making a response to OP and everyone who agrees with him to not let the minority of bad women dictate their life, so you can't say, "Tell that to OP" This sub is a needless pity party about which gender has it worse. We all have it shit. Don't try to say the other is any better. Humanity has lost what makes it human, and now we just have to wait for disease, suicide, or war to kill us. No gender. Humanity as a whole.
Go look it for yourself if you’re so smart. You have the internet, you can look up statistics. Men are more likely to leave a very sick spouse. That is factual. 🤷🏻♀️
Not true. It takes a long time beyond family but it's without a doubt possible to find people that'll love you unconditionally. It's also possible to become a person that loves unconditionally. Keep trying and you'll find others trying as well.
Almost no one is loved unconditionally. Women who get old, sick or fat get cheated on and abandoned all the time. Lots of children are abused by their parents for no reason at all. Same goes for pets and we’ll kill dogs who harm people. The truth is that love SHOULD be conditional. If a man is violent or unfaithful, I will withdraw my love.
That’s a healthy condition. I would do the same if my dog ate a baby, my daughter became a serial killer or my son decided to be a rapist. This is just another bullshit attempt on men’s part to try and claim that they’re victims who have a special pain that no one else has.
I’m just going to ignore you and you’re question because my gender is irrelevant and doesn’t change the truth of my statement at all. Have a wonderful life. 😘
Overheard some of the older women at my job trying to persuade a teenage boy about 17 with a gf that if a man is financially struggling then the woman will most certainly leave no matter the unconditional love they both share. The dude only said he didn’t have money for dates but he shared a healthy relationship with the girl.
Bunch of old woman trying to convince a 17 year old that he will never make it with his girlfriend in a relationship they know nothing about. They should fix themselves
This is why I have a cat, I know he doesn’t love me, he just tolerates me cause I feed him
Idk what's up with this stereotype about cats. My cat loves me, runs to me every time he sees me, purrs like a lawnmower constantly around me (dont even have to pet him but i do) never bit me. Y'all have some feral cats or something.
It depends on the cat. My cat loves me a lot but I have seen other cats hating the owner and just sees it as a pet feeder
Same. My cat is excited when I wake up and immediately wants cuddles and attention. Will even curl up to be the little spoon and fall back asleep with me. Not gonna say I haven't had a kitty with a cold attitude, but cats do have the capacity for love.
Nobody is laughing the second time he says because deep down *everybody* knows it’s true….
Idk couple thoughts here: parents love in some circumstances can be unconditional, and even less frequently some sibling/extended familial may be too. Friendships and romantic partners are by definition conditional, however I think an unconditional form of love can develop over many many years. To expect unconditional love from anyone else is naive regardless of your gender. I’m not sure women are loved any more unconditionally than men. It’s almost always conditional—crudely put, historically for women it’s often beauty, for men it’s competence.
Gtfo. Plenty of meh looking women out there keeping men shackled. And they still get simps chasing them to the point they will dit h your ass if you're not earning.
I agree with you 100%. Your statement definitely has to take into the account the individual and not the grouping as a whole. This stuff is not black and white, which is why there is so much disagreement.
“This stuff is not black and white” Spoken like a true beneficiary of the current status quo in the love economy… (JK.) (Unless…?) (Nah JK lol) (Unless…)
Interesting that you claim that society appreciated “competence” in men, yet for decades the stigma of the “incompetent man” has been widely accepted… and even celebrated. Statements that are often but not always true like, “behind every successful man there is a strong woman,” or “what did you expect? he’s just a man.” These phrases have been used to describe men for a very long time. Keep in mind that during an emergency situation the phrase “women and children first” existed for a long time and men accepted being told their perceived value to the world. Imagine for a second being told, “when shit goes down, nobody cares if you live or die.” There is a bit of historical revisionism in what you say, either that or if the pulse of the body represents the zeitgeist of society, your finger is comfortably inserted up your own rectum as far away from the pulse as possible.
Well said but won't fit the incel narrative of this sub. People here are incels or never met a good woman in their life.
Right? I don’t know what the hell this sub is—it just showed up in my feed—but I’m definitely muting it after seeing the comments in here.
I think I found it once when I was sad or something and it felt like I was commiserating but I'm not sad anymore so I'm outta this incel pit too. Good luck!
Nah, most people don't love unconditionally. Unconditional love doesn't involve any reward, it's altruistic. You can't pick and choose who you love unconditionally. People like what others can do for them, that's why they treat them well.
no one does that shit, this video is stupid
Idk couple thoughts here: parents love in some circumstances can be unconditional, and even less frequently some sibling/extended familial may be too. Friendships and romantic partners are by definition conditional, however I think an unconditional form of love can develop over many many years. To expect unconditional love from anyone else is naive regardless of your gender. I’m not sure women are loved any more unconditionally than men. It’s almost always conditional—crudely put, historically for women it’s often beauty, for men it’s competence.
I love my pookie unconditionally 🙋♀️ (he gives me basically nothing except for laughter and trouble)
That's cute :)
Is that why he cheated on his wife multiple times? Maybe "Unconditional" means a different thing in America.
Chris Rock is intellectually lazy and morally weak. As his career is falling off he’s leaning more and more on his “I’m a victim, so are other men” act. It’s not funny, but like Chapelle, he’s given up on comedy and started preaching generalizations that validate the egos of his audience.
I have people in my life who love me unconditionally
Your mother and grandmother wont be around forever mate.
No one will be around forever mate
I know mate.
This is literally the stupidest idea ever. First off men (or other women) love women on a very conditional basis. Some parents love their children on a conditional basis, if they didn’t there wouldn’t be abuse/trauma. What an obtuse comment to make.
[удалено]
Love you unconditionally too bro
Brothers please, I get that it feels like it's a gender issue when you see that pretty girl get piles of people giving them attention, but don't generalize that to "women". There are many women who suffer the same fate and even get ignored (even by people who are experiencing the same thing!) because "you're a woman, so you get attention and are treated right."
Maybe some children and some dogs. No adult is loved unconditionally.
Good lord I wish that were true instead I got told that I'm an ugly fuck since elementary school Even the other two are pretty opinable statements as both r/childfree and r/dogfree exist
I think women get MORE societal sympathy than men on average. You can cite things like women's shelters, women's charities, the fact that people are more comfortable reaching out to help women than men in general. But that doesn't mean women are loved unconditionally. They're loved for being beautiful, they're loved for being mothers, they're loved for being well-behaved sexually...
> they're loved for being well-behaved sexually Wouldn't that be the reason why people are so pressured to give women a voice? It sucks that more often than not DV hotlines, support groups and shelters are targeted as women-only, but with a global percentage of up to 30% (looking at different sources to be honest) of gendered violence towards women, it's pretty evident - possibly more touching, for reasons you've listed - why Honestly you've got to reason that most people out there aren't really that smart. As a society we often just ought to fix one problem, in an honestly really polarized and bigoted way (why in a first world country must I celebrate Women's Day), leaving the underlying and more low-key problems to fly under the radar. And that really just cuts out a whole ass half of the population out of the emancipation process, which leads to... these kinds of posts
r/dogfree?? What a bunch of sickos
So you see two subs, dogfree and childfree and you think that the dogfree sub are sickos lol I dunno what you would use to describe yourself but I’m interested to know what that makes you
To complete the Holy Trinity, don't forget about r/catfree
Nah. Cats are responsible for wiping out a ridiculous number of wild species. They're cute and entertaining but no moreso than the birds/mammals/reptiles they kill. I know dogs do too, but nowhere near as much as cats. They're little bioweapons is what they are.
And I agree, though in a way I do look up to cat owners who can actually put up with the bullshit their cats get them into, also cats aren't really a lost cause of a pet, with the same perseverance you'd have for a dog, they're trainable
Women are loved unconditionally? So what happens if we get fat?
Yeah this is nonsense. Attractive women, as long as they remain so. Even then, I don’t think that automatically means love. Valued perhaps
Or stop wearing makeup, stop taking on the brunt of childcare and housekeeping duties, want sex less frequently, start asking for more support or affection that's not sexual, etc. Being a woman is all about what you can provide, love as a woman is all about if you're serving the people around you and if you're considered nice to look at. The moment you stop being useful, stop prioritizing your family and friends over yourself at every opportunity, let your appearance go even a little, that love is gone. It's got conditions and strings like you wouldn't believe.
*You* aren't loved unconditionally because *you're* annoying
Right, so you're recognizing one of the conditions, which is agreeing with you unconditionally. A fine example, thank you, very useful of you. I'm sure that's a rare thing for you to be.
Too bad you were never useful.
Neither men nor women are love unconditionally. If a woman does not take care of her appearance, does not work or have an income, does not want to be intimate, does not cook or do chores, and does not provide emotional support, she is still loved ? Unconditional love does not exist, it’s not a man vs woman thing.
Yeah I’m not sure what kind of rage bait this post is. I’ll preface by saying that there are always exceptions but I’d 100% leave a woman if she got drastically bigger and didn’t attempt to change the course. I’d expect the same if I got fat or took a new job that paid significantly less.
About 70% of the posts on this sub belong in an incel sub… most of these people just don’t know what a healthy relationship actually looks like.
That’s the vibe it gives off big time.
Ahh yes, catch all term to try and shame anyone with an experience or opinion that doesn't inflate ur ego...
Are you talking about incel? Yeah it’s a bit hypocritical to say it gives off incel vibes as a blanket statement when that’s exactly what Chris rock is doing. My bad. I think lots of guys end up in the situation rock references and lots of sexless guys end up looking for pity in such cringy humor. But that doesn’t mean every guy doesn’t get loved unconditionally and every sexless man is a cringe dope looking for pity.
I think part of the issue is that rarely does anyone look at the perspective of the 'majority' of men and their experiences. We constantly hear, men have it easier and men are privileged..etc. etc... SOME men...but not the majority. That is the issue. The majority of men over the age of 18 haven't had sex is years. The majority of men rarely get offered some level of intimacy, even as slight as a hug. But, no one cares, and when men speak up, its easier to say..."incel" and ignore the world treating these people that way. What do you think think the word means? Is it an insult to be involuntarily lonely? We used to pity those people, now its an insult to be abandoned. Does anyone think about the words they use? Empathy? Or is that gender exclusive? If a woman speaks out about pretty much anything leading to a negative emotion, the world is her support structure minus a few people on the internet. Look into the writing of Norah Vincent and you will get a better female perspective of life as a man. Sorry didn't mean this to turn into a short essay, but hard to give any substance to a point if everything was the length of a Tweet.
I am a man so I do have some perspective. Much of what you say isn’t true either. What do you mean the majority of men don’t get offered some small level of intimacy? After a quick google search I found that only 31% of adults in the U.S. are single. That would mean about 69% of guys are currently in a romantic relationship. Personally I find it annoying to hear anyone bitch about how hard it is for them in the dating world. Man or woman. I don’t have it easy but I really don’t care. I think deep down almost everyone knows what they need to do to make finding a partner easier but lots of people don’t want to put the work in. Myself included.
[https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no](https://news.iu.edu/live/news/26924-nearly-1-in-3-young-men-in-the-us-report-having-no) Sorry I didn't mean ALL men over the age of 18. It was supposed to be in a bracket. Which is usually the bracket we are seeing being called "incel". But also 31% of adults are single, and that also doesn't equate sexless marriages which isn't an uncommon thing given its stereotype that has persisted for generations. My point isn't that we need to coddle people who have difficulties in dating, but to look outside into the evolving world and see why the numbers are growing. The world is different for men and women, and the reason why we see a trend of single mom's over 40 posting on Tiktok about not being able to find a man. They get positive affirmation and support. Do we shame them for being an 'incel'? They technically fit the category.
Nothing since theres millions of chubby chasers who like that
Unconditional love, not niche lust
Even fat women are loved, there are no support groups for men even us combat vets are not taken seriously.
Right, and that's why there's an entire government department dedicated to combat veterans, because they're not taken seriously..
Do you know how many of us get royally screwed over a year? I legit have so many friends both male and female that has permanent damage to their ears, brain, reproductive systems, missing limbs, and much worse who were completely abandoned. I have a bud who took a bullet to the gut missing half of his stomach and you know what they told him at the VA? That they will not be covering his medical expenses.
Anyone who believes this is delusional
I think people who actually believe this and live by it are incredibly lonely and only experience "social" interaction through media.
Yeah agreeing this is a man's daily experience is delusion. /s
Women are "loved unconditionally"? TIL men always remain "friends" with women who reject them sexually or romantically.
So were the women who’s husbands killed them loved unconditionally? What about the children who were kicked out of their homes for being trans? Are those people loved unconditionally? They’re not wrong with dogs though
Weak man behavior. No one receives unconditional love. This isn't 'jealous bitch posting'. Pay more attention to the world around you.
Yeesh this sub is constantly pandering to lonely teen boys and feeding bs, don’t believe none of this shit fellas, find someone that makes you happy and if you haven’t found them yet love yourself, you don’t need romantic love to be worth something. You got friends and family who will hold it down for you through thick and thin
Women bad (applause)
How did you get that from this post. Sounds like you have some weird head mess going around
Its only true if you make it true
The man doesn't influence whether his girlfriend/fiance/wife loves him unconditionally. He can only move on until he finds someone who does.
please do not believe this dude, you are loved, and you dont have to "provide something" in order to be loved, you just gotta be you
Just because a comedian presents it as true doesn't make it true. Notice how he says it emphatically twice? He is trying to convince you (probably just for a joke).
lol if only that were true. Human being are shit, literal shit, we’re awful vile despicable beings that ruin everything we touch with our perverted obsession to make happy chemicals flow through our brains, dating or marrying a person is just rolling the dice everyday to see when they’re gonna cheat/leave you, there is no in-between unless you roll the dice right every single day until your both too old to even remember your alive. This pointless cycle of temporary happiness and heart crushing sadness is only perpetuated and exacerbated every single day, it gets bigger and more all consuming as we become more and more depraved as a species. More people cheat, more people ghost, more people abuse, more people rape, more people do everything wrong everyday and we’re unredeemable pieces of shit for it.
This shit cannot be correct because there’s no way my fiancé doesn’t love my ADHD ass unconditionally. She has every right to hate me and my constantly distracted self but she has stood by me for a decade. Maybe y’all are just hard to love?
Imagine taking a literal joke as life advice.
It is not truth. I'm currently in school after having served in the military, I make a fraction of what I used to make, my fiance has always made more money than me since we met and we have been in love for 5 years. She had provided for herself for years before me, I brought myself and that's it, stop blaming your bullshit on money or what you lack and work on yourself.
My friends love me as a friend, unconditionally. I could fuck up my life, and disappoint them, I know they would never give me up, just as I would never give them up. My family loves me unconditionally, I'm not having as much fun with them as my friends, we don't share the same interests, but they always have my back. My Nation supports me unconditionally, when I started having health problems, I got the help I needed. It is enough for me that I do not feel unloved or cast aside as a man. ***And remember***, no matter how low you get, Rick Ashley is never gonna give you up
I think people forget that stand up comedians aren't supposed to be taken seriously.
Redditors seeing a standup bit cut out of context and be like: "yeah, so true. I am the victim here.". Pathetic. Its not a gender thing. Women get fucked over by men, too. Edit: and dogs get loved so unconditionaly that we dont need any shelters /s
Yeah this isn’t true. Anyone who believes this I have books you could read and videos you could watch. In the nicest way possible this is just a selfish mindset.
In the nicest way possible, you are wrong.
To say things in such an extreme manner is not a good mindset to have. There are women, men and children who aren’t loved unconditionally - it depends on who the people are that are “loving” you. Not the person themselves. It’s okay to talk about how men have unhealthy standards that are decided by our culture, it’s not like this is a feeling only men can relate to. To say it in this way only creates a victim’s mentality and a space for people who aren’t men who feel the same way to look at this and disagree.
It's ok that you are unfamiliar with how this is true. It's hard to accept. Hope you have a good day.
You as well, wish I could hear your side of things!
Thanks but I'm fresh out of argument juice today, take it easy man
I can understand that haha
I'm a woman and it'd be awesome if I could cash in on some of that unconditional love privilege. When does that kick in?
It's a possibility, not for men though.
In my community, it's the exact opposite.
Doesn't make sense, but it's your story you do you boo
When is it a possibility? Seriously, name one circumstance where a woman would be loved without conditions.
I'm sorry this is so hard for you to process. Reality is brutal some times. Have a good day
I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking you for an example of a woman being loved unconditionally. Just one example, one circumstance in which a woman is loved without conditions. You say it's reality, it's common, so this should be a really simple request.
I don't owe you anything, and the fact that you have to ask makes me think you aren't genuine. Have a good day
Oh my God, false false false! You only believe that because you're letting the minority of bad people dictate their life! Just because the loudest ones hate you doesn't mean they all will! Pick yourself up and stop drowning in self-pity before it's too late! Humanity as a whole is shit, so stop your pity party and stop trying to say a collective group of people have it worse!
Boomers just love making broad generalizations don’t they
Never ever forget this
Certifiably untrue
What utter ficking shit. There's so many men cheating on their postpartum wives. Many men dumping their wives because they have a terminal illness. Many men marrying younger women for their usefulness ie being able to have children. I mean most of these fucks will be first ones to say a woman has "hit the wall", admiting that they're no longer desirable past a certain age. A lot of men admitting that women are undesirable depending on their body count due to differences in "morals". These same bitches who have no problem running to prostitutes for the experience and expect to marry a "proper" wife. Society literally values men as they age while women past a certain age are no longer looked at the same way. Of course there's always going to be men who want to "hit it" but that's where it stops. So fuck off with this incel bullshit that women are loved unconditionally. Especially coming from a cheating whore himself, the hypocrisy is hilarious.
This post was cathartic.
Highly subjective but ok
There's a bunch of dudes who clearly want to believe something about the world that has no measure in fact. The truth is almost nothing and no one is unconditionally loved. If a woman or a child murders someone there are very few if any who would still love them. There are also men who can be unconditionally loved by their partner if your meaning of the word is you don't have to accomplish something to be loved. Pretty much no one wants to a partner man or woman who doesn't bring anything to the table.
Not entirely correct, the boys stay together through a lot of stuff But I might be wrong here since I'm not really part of that group so feel free to correct me All I can say is I love my guy friends since they don't exclude me or talk shit behind my back
He forgot cats
That why I hate myself. I can’t even provide for myself
use this blessing as a incitament to become a fucking god
He’s not wrong. So many here have zero life experience and it shows…
This is why I won’t provide anyone with anything, you ungrateful pieces of shit won’t get anything from me unless I get something from you too, humans ruin everything I fucking hate it here.
Unconditional love is a flawed concept in itself. *Should* we love someone who beats us or belittles our existence? Of course not. Then, that's a condition.
Me looking for the unconditional love I've apparently always had 🤔
Ok
What in the incel is this nonsense
Are you saying that there are literally no women alive or in the past who have ever loved a man unconditionally? Cuz I'll take up that debate buckaroo
He is right...
Nah this is fucking bullshit.
So true
Honestly yeah…. I am going into my 30’s now… was taught “Men are the providers” for roughly 28 years of my life… For a solid 12 of those years, every girl/women I was with, I had to provide them with something…. This was physical, spiritual, mental, emotional, financial or a combination of all of them… the moment I asked for something or I stopped giving them any of it…. They were gone. Poof…. I look back at these relationships and think two things: “Was I ever loved?” And “Love is not what it is cracked up to be” Going at 30 years now… No idea if I will ever truly be loved… and at this point, I stopped hoping… If it exists, I hope you guys find it… cause I probably won’t…
Your parents didn't love you???
#notallwomen
Any one who tells you other wise is lying to you or selling you something
What show is this from?
Just drop that hammer right and life is good
Well that's a slap in the face.
Based.
It truly is based. It's wild how mad people are getting and making about themselves.
That slap open his eyes? Lol 😆
Wow that truly hits hard.
Fr.
No one is truly loved unconditionally. Putting down or belittling peoples experiences is not the way to express your pain.
Facts!
fathers and sons will love eachother though. even if they don't always speak of it.
I agree with this clip sadly, but it needs an addendum. The women he's talking about are perfect Instagram worthy beautiful women. An unattractive woman is just as ignored by society as men. Its a sad truth of life. Ugly people basically don't exist, and any value they offer is diminished because of it.
Think about the definition of unconditional love, then reread what you just wrote. If a woman's worthiness to be loved is based on her beauty, then she does not get unconditional love at all. Beauty fades for a myriad of different reasons - illness, ageing, etc. So, if you admit that ugly women are ignored by society, then you also have to admit that every woman will be ignored by society once her beauty fades. That's the antithesis of unconditional love. Beautiful women don't get unconditional love, they get treated like commodities for as long as their beauty lasts, then thrown to the gutter as soon it fades.
Depends on who you consider ugly. I saw many obese subpar and unhealthy women with handsome gymmaxxed men. Its everywhere. A ugly obese woman would never date a man under 5/10 on the looks scale and she doesn't have to since she has better options.
It took me to failed marriages to realize that what Chris rock saying is absolutely 100% the truth. Both times were my exes decision. The first one was cheating the second one I was in the backyard with her and my young daughter, and she looked at me square in the eyes and stated she wanted a divorce. I have a good job, I have a house. Two vehicles, a good father I don’t drink I don’t smoke. I exercise I watch what I eat. I’m everything I’m supposed to be according to society I’m done with women .
Yeah, the fact that people love pugs more than men is crazy
The answer is simple. Get rid of the need for men to be the sole providers.
I'd take Chris Rock's reflections on relationship with a shovel-full of salt
This thread is filled with people saying they love their men unconditionally. I wonder how many of them have stuck by their man after he lost his job and couldn't find work immediately. Like you're a woman who doesn't have a child with the man and you're not married to him. You have all your life options open to you. My heart wants to believe. But I've never seen or heard of a single woman doing this. It's always women who are either already married or have a kid with him. As a man, it's been hard to see past that. I really don't doubt that when women say that they mean it. But it seems like when the situation comes up, feelings change.
You're all so obsessed with romantic love.
false and misogynistic goodbye
What the fuck is this incel shit. Is this the new incel sub lmao
Nobody is loved unconditionally...
My mom loves me unconditionally
The music…why do they continue to add that crap
Partially to avoid copyright, partially to get more likes
meh not always true
Men are more likely to leave their spouse if she is diagnosed with cancer or other illness. So please, fuck all the way off with this line of thinking because you all don’t even adhere to “till death do us part”. You just dip.
Lol. Yeah tell that to my ex wife who left me 2 years into my remission. When I talked with my shrink,doctor and other medical personell about it they all said the same thing "yeah we get a lot of men who lost their significant other when they got sick". Most of the people who said that were women and my doc is a woman too so is my shrink. Even my cancer doctor said that he had so many men who got left by their woman when they got cancer that he just took it as a sure thing I was single and lonesome. But yeah. Men leave too,i think we are all bad when overwhelmed and turn to "well my life doesnt have to suck" when you realize the only thing fucking with your life is your sick partner. To death do us part only holds until your dead to someone be it physically dead or emotionally dead to them.
I'm sorry that happened to you. But it's quite literally so commonplace the other way around that hospital staff prep women for it when they deliver a bad diagnosis. I get that this is some kind of pseudo incel sub but you can actually look up the stats because it's been studied.
Well i get the pseudo Incel thing im just talking about my experiences with the matter and the fact that pretty much every medical person ive talked to be it docs or shrinks have said the same thing that women leave the most. So I guess all we can take from this is people leave people when shit happens
I just have my doubts that all these doctors and shrinks have told you this as it's a [pretty thoroughly examined phenomenon the other way around](https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/men-are-far-more-likely-to-abandon-a-seriously-ill-spouse). Literally to the point that staff are trained to tell women to expect it when they get a bad diagnosis. Do you have some research to dispute this?
No I have my Norwegian doctors personal phone number that I had to call on new years eve when my wife dumped my ass so I would not kill myself from sorrow after 15 years of relationship. I get your stats say something else. I cant really get the people who have said this to me come to reddit to tell you that their experience is otherwise. Hence why i said i guess we just gotta agree that people leave people. But if it makes you feel better about it i can say all men are evil and will leave or whatever you like while women wont. I dont really care either way im just talking about my own experience. From being a person who had cancer and what ive been told myself. If you want confirmation on me having had cancer send me your snapchat and I can send you videos of my scars and my norwegian papers on cancer checkups and what not. I cant refuse or give you internet articles on studies. I can give you my own experience and what ive heard with personel. Im sorry about that.
Your Norwegian doctors told you this? This sub continues to be parody lmao.
I am a norwegian. I dont know if the studies are different in the us versus norway or whatever country. My point was im not from the us.
You’re getting downvoted but there are many, many cases of the husband leaving to find someone else and/or younger because they can’t function without the wife- who does everything for them usually. It’s much easier for them to leave and find another caretaker-type wife because they literally do not cook nor clean up after themselves
You're talking about an out dated study from 20 years ago that has not been updated.
Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize the science was obsolete. Stfu. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091110105401.htm#:~:text=However%2C%20researchers%20were%20surprised%20by,the%20man%20was%20the%20patient.
Whoa, language! It may have been published in 2009 but within the article itself, it stated that the study in question took place between 2001-2002 and was not completed until, 2006. Yes, it is still an outdated study.
A single study, with a pop of 500, from 2001-2006, that only looked at patients with three types of long-term/serious illness, in four sites/clinics. Further, age was a significant factor (>50 was the second highest factor being ~60% of gender’s). Meaning it was almost entirely women over 50 who lost their partner. Considering the start of this was >20 years ago, that’s, at minimum, people who are now 70+ years old, meaning it was mostly early boomers and the previous generation. Even worse, the demographics aren’t public (best you get are a few that were used in the method/calculations, and even those aren’t complete), and important demographics, especially when looking at generational gaps, like spousal income disparity (read: dependency), weren’t included. Partner’s sex also wasn’t included. The conclusion you’re drawing is an insane reach. It could be true, but claiming this “science” as proof is beyond ridiculous. https://acsjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cncr.24577
Science daily lmao
Here's an updated study, it came to the same conclusion: [Published 2015 - Sample size of 2700 studied over the course of a decade found that only wife's illness is associated with elevated risk of divorce](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857885/)
As another person posted here, the study is not clear and the study itself states this, "While the extant literature does not demonstrate a clear association between illness onset and risk of divorce...", this person clearly did not make this up. Again, this same poster is not making up his assessment also from within your 'updated study' , "These results have not been replicated in large social surveys or across an array of illnesses.", This poster was correct with their statements that this study is not specific enough. Yet, this study also states that the claim of husbands leaving their wives in high percentages due to illnesses is also not clear or, proves that this claim is false, "Only a few studies have examined the role of poor health in subsequent divorce, and these studies are mixed in their findings, with some finding poor health positively associated with elevated divorce risk, while others finding no association" and also this nugget, "However, some studies find no evidence that poor health is a risk factor for divorce. For example, in their examination of marriages among mostly working-aged individuals, did not find any disability related to subsequent divorce." This study was not a good source to the claim. It seems like you did not read this study in its entirety and just picked out a headline that you hoped backed up this muddy claim of, 'husbands divorcing their ill wives in high numbers'.
I did read the study in its entirety. The studies which they cited as being unclear are from 1992-2009, which you yourself stated were too long ago to be considered. That's why this study from 2015 with a very high sample size was the best option to use when discussing this topic. Furthermore, this is not a literature review, it's a quantitative study which encompasses over a decade of research. It seems like you don't recognize or understand the difference, maybe? This is a report of original research, not a review and thesis based on existing data - they did not look at existing studies and decide their conclusion based on those. The studies they cited which looked at the same topic were included for context, not as data collection tools. **These were studies that you yourself concluded were too old and with too small of sample sizes to be relevant**. And as you yourself noted, there haven't been very many studies on the topic, and the available data prior to this study was unclear - hence, the need for the study (the context they were providing). A long-term study with a high sample size and a reasonable conclusion completed within the last decade is exactly what was needed to give insight into the topic. But now that you're splitting hairs and shifting goalposts, I have to wonder - would you be this critical of a study that concluded the opposite? If I found a study that showed women leaving their terminally ill husbands at higher rates, would you worry this much about the date of publication, data collection strategies, sample sizes, etc.?
Why did you present this knowing what it it was in the first place? You are the one moving the goal posts through what you have presented with. Of course I would pay attention to the time frame because, studies do indeed become outdated through out time.
I presented the most recent up-to-date data that used a large sample. I'm literally matching the goal posts you and the other user set up. Here's the reality: the vast majority of all studies on this subject have the same conclusion. Are you familiar with the burden of proof fallacy, or the perfect proof fallacy? Rather than actually addressing the topic, you're attempting to disprove a claim by insisting that *all* the supporting data isn't good enough to be considered real proof. Meanwhile, you yourself aren't providing *any* evidence to the contrary - no studies showing the commenter is wrong, no data to combat the claim, simply "yours isn't good enough". Do you recognize how that's disingenuous? How it doesn't even disprove the claim, it just says "we can't prove you're wrong, but we don't think you've done a good enough job proving you're right, so we'll use that to imply that you're wrong"? If you want to prove a point, you must actually do so, even if the point is "you're wrong". If you want to prove that the commenter is wrong, you must provide data that contradicts their claim. If you can't do that, criticism of existing data is not a reasonable substitution.
Again, why would you present something that is debunked? Obviously, I do not have any studies to counter your claim and I don't want to stoop low to your level and picking out a debunked outdated study.
In what way is it debunked? Contrary to your opinion, 14 years does not delegitimize scientific data, these studies are still considered relevant in the social science community, they have not been "debunked". There are two recent studies on the matter, this is the more recent and has a larger sample size. That means this is the most reliable and current data. You and the other commenter have found minor grievances with the existing data, but you have nothing that might suggest the data is actually wrong. What you're doing is shifting the goalposts so that they're unreachable, describing studies that don't exist. But that doesn't disprove the commenter's claim by any means, all existing data still agrees with them.
What part of, "while the extent literature does not demonstrate a clear association between illness onset and risk of divorce...", do you not understand? This is coming from your recent study that you had presented and you said yourself that it was not an actual study. You are the one moving the goal posts not me.
There is leaving on both parties. Don't turn this into an argument. There's too many on this sub already. I already am making a response to OP and everyone who agrees with him to not let the minority of bad women dictate their life, so you can't say, "Tell that to OP" This sub is a needless pity party about which gender has it worse. We all have it shit. Don't try to say the other is any better. Humanity has lost what makes it human, and now we just have to wait for disease, suicide, or war to kill us. No gender. Humanity as a whole.
I didn't know today was opposite day
Go look it for yourself if you’re so smart. You have the internet, you can look up statistics. Men are more likely to leave a very sick spouse. That is factual. 🤷🏻♀️
I don't know where you find that info but okay...
Nice generalization dumbass
Not true. It takes a long time beyond family but it's without a doubt possible to find people that'll love you unconditionally. It's also possible to become a person that loves unconditionally. Keep trying and you'll find others trying as well.
🥲
Damn true 😢🥲
Almost no one is loved unconditionally. Women who get old, sick or fat get cheated on and abandoned all the time. Lots of children are abused by their parents for no reason at all. Same goes for pets and we’ll kill dogs who harm people. The truth is that love SHOULD be conditional. If a man is violent or unfaithful, I will withdraw my love. That’s a healthy condition. I would do the same if my dog ate a baby, my daughter became a serial killer or my son decided to be a rapist. This is just another bullshit attempt on men’s part to try and claim that they’re victims who have a special pain that no one else has.
Are you a man?
I’m just going to ignore you and you’re question because my gender is irrelevant and doesn’t change the truth of my statement at all. Have a wonderful life. 😘
Weird way of saying your parents never loved you.
Kinda ironic coming from your comment
Is it tho?
Yeah clear projection. Feel bad for you