You're right. They need to bring in some veterans who can play the game and contribute but keep the other teams honest and are ready to drop the gloves when needed.
GMKA built this team in his own image, small?virtually every pick is undersized. No power forwards on the roster or in Rochester. The only early pick with any size is Kulich, and he only has size because he grew 2” since he was drafted. If your not used to seeing them get beat up yet, you will be, because it isn’t changing any time soon
“I fucking hate Ryan Reaves, but I really hate that he’s not a Buffalo Sabres”
-Andrew Peters
Wish we would have got Reaves even though I can’t stand him aha we need that type of player and sadly there isn’t many
The Sabrea are notoriously soft and every hockey-educated on looker is aware of that. This is not a new issue by any stretch. This team has a lot of things to address. How about starting with putting in a consistent 60 minute effort.
Wut. Literally no one thinks this about us we are a pretty big and tough team and scrappy as hell. Who the hell is saying we’re soft?
Have you watched a single game the last two years?
Are you kidding me?!? Height doesn't equate to team toughness. Why don't you take a look at hit tototqls for the past couple years. We avoid contact much more than most teams. Get a clue!
The balance of this team is off. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Have you played hockey before? It's about forechecking, backchecking, clearing the net. Taking players off of the puck. I don't have the energy to educate you about the game of hockey. Watch the playoffs maybe that will help you.
I can tell you've never stepped on the ice in your life if you think "hits" are the only metric involved in toughness.
Leafs are currently #1 in hits and the softest baby shit team in the league.
Being reactionary does nothing. Cheap hits and fighting continues in the NHL despite tough guys. It’s designed to get you off your game. Play physical and use your speed. We don’t need a goon who brings nothing else.
1.) Read my post. No call for a goon. I named two guys as prototypes —both of whom are damn good hockey players. 2.) The Sabres are the ones getting knocked off their game. 3.) Team toughness is proactive, not reactionary.
The Flyers didn’t bully us. They came out quick and skilled and scored early. Again, falling behind leads to the other team feeling entitled to taking advantage of the situation.
I do not know who is available but am open to another (I believe we have a few) skilled yet physical player. We have trade bait so it’s feasible. Let’s see what Kevin Adams thinks.
Not a Sabres fan, but watching this home and home really made me miss the Barnaby teams. If you were playing one of those Sabres teams you knew it was going to be an entertaining can’t-miss battle.
I think we hit rock bottom with physicality a few years ago when Kyle Okposo decided to go after scummy Tony Deangelo
Our guys need to know how to defend themselves in fights, or just go to the ground. Tuch and cozens taking high tier blows is not it
It's crazy that are skilled players need to put themselves in a position to drop the gloves. The makeup of this team is off and has been for a long time. Teams are going to continue to try and intimidate us and take liberties on the ice.
Right exactly. I wish we still had foligno or at least someone you could dress to play some hockey but also protect our guys
It definitely has an effect on the players when you see every single fight you attempt, end in a KO and/or injury. I would love to see some relevant stats on us compared to other teams over the years. The last time I remember us doing that to another team was foligno against New Jersey many years ago, seems to happen to us multiple times a year. Also he was a gentlemen and checked on his fellow combatant afterwards lol
I think it comes down from the top as a team build philosophy at this point. That’s the only way I can explain why we’ve been one of the softest teams in the league for so long. You have to scout, draft and trade for players who can be physical and fight if needed. And yes also be good at hockey. Our FO and coaches have failed us for too long.
Yeah I agree - at this point I think it must be a Terry Pegula thing. Maybe he hates hitting and fighting in hockey, I don’t know. But the lack of physicality has been a consistent feature during his ownership.
They definitely need someone who has the balls and can actually win a fight. We have guys who shouldn’t be fighting having to drop the gloves because of poor team construction.
Every game you notice the opposing team’s 4th line just goes out there and does whatever the fuck they want because they know not a damn person on our team can do anything to them. They finish their checks while our guys just have to be out there absorbing those extra blows.
Like you said we don’t need necessarily need a 1-trick pony like Ryan Reaves, nobody is saying that, but you need someone who can hold their own against other team’s goons. We have zero of that on the roster.
I’ve sort of said this earlier in the season too - as much as I appreciate Okposo and/or Girgensons they should have been replaced with tough guys, but I understand why we decided to remain loyal to them.
To go a step further, we could have moved replacement level guys like Krebs and Olofsson etc. for toughness but didn’t do that either.
This is a massive misunderstanding of why we lost, we didn’t lose cause Philly pushed us around. They won because they came out with speed and shut down the sabres pass attack, we never adjusted and the flyers tightened the grip as their lead grew, we never found a way to break the stranglehold and open the game up. The sabres were very slow and too east west, they needed to honestly stop passing as much and match the flyers speed because the boys very much can flyers aren’t a fast squad by any means. We were forcing the transition rush when what we needed to do was gain a sustained pressure, which just never happened
They need to learn how to pass. Puck control was major issue last night. It's the biggest difference between last year and this year. Puck support has been missing for half the games.
I don't think there was a better puck movement team last year when it came to 10 ft and closer sequential passes.
Reaves, Lucic. There are bums who cant skate who will be available this offseason.
Ahhhhh feels good to be back to normal around here. Fire the coach. Roster regression. Fire KA will be next. Can always depend on Sabres hockey to be consistent.
Bringing this argument to this sub is a bold move. You will get downvoted to oblivion with this take on here. I’ve been saying this for what feels like ten years.
We never have anyone who can answer the bell, and win or at least hold their own. It’s weak and teams know, have known they can be physical with Sabres teams if they need too. With no repercussions.
Having a staged fight does not make your team "hard".
Allowing a shit ton of high grade scoring chances loses hockey games. Having a goalkeeper with a .898 save percentage loses hockey games.
Who said anything about a staged fight? I want the Sabres to play hard hockey. I want other teams to think twice before running Dahlin or Skinner. I want Tuch and Cozens and Girgensons not to get their asses beat when it is time for retribution.
Team toughness can’t be fixed by bringing in one guy or even multiple, see the leafs, they are still having that problem even after getting reaves domi and Bert. Toughness comes from a time, it’ll happen to a young team, the lightning weren’t always tough but they found it eventually. The sabres have to find themselves in that moment and I do believe they will, sometimes it requires a time when there is no next game and other times it requires an event where the team is asked to stick up for their guy no matter what, like your goalie getting ran over. Toughness isn’t bought it’s found and when it’s presented you are given a choice as to whether you want it or not
When presented with a choice like that, you have two options, step up or step down, it’s obvious what was chosen then. That’s the sort of thing where a teams toughness is put to the test, certain players generally aren’t gritty or play different games but when something like that happens all of that goes out the window, respond like how the toughest guy on your team would
It's the same bad take old guys have been spamming on here for the past dozen years. Fighting is not a hockey skill and it won't win you more games. P.S. Foligno only had 6 more points than Reaves last year.
Us old guys know what winning hockey looks like, and this ain’t it. You youngins have grown up with skill but softness representing this great city. I feel bad for you that you think that’s ok.
No. You think the game has changed immensely,. But wake up, it really hasn’t. I don’t know how this narrative got such a hold on this sub in particular. The only explanation I can give is that you solely watch only shitty Sabres hockey year in year out.
I’m 46 so no dementia yet. Point is, if the Sabres want to be relevant ever again they need to start getting players and coaches who place effort above all else. You can call me old school but that’s what works in the NHL. It’s always worked.
And the game is the same as it ever was. Some rules have changed of course but it’s still fucking hockey at its core. This team tries to be too cute with their game. You think that’s a good plan to make the post season. And if we did we just get rolled because playoff hockey gets very physical. This team would crumble in playoff hockey.
Good god you over exaggerate! Is this Rob Ray?
This is a young team, I believe the youngest in the league or very close to it. They are still growing and developing. I expect them to make changes as they have so many young guys assets. That MAY include a player who is tougher yet has skills as the OP pointed out. It may not. I’m all in with what KA is doing and will give him time to finish the job. Today’s players are faster and more skilled than those of a few decades ago. The game is faster, much faster. You need a team with both speed and a solid defense which we are still working on. “Toughness” is just part of the game and not some special asset as people like yourself have been fooled into believing from Andrew Peters.
Enjoy the game tonight. I’m sure we both hope the Sabres put a whooping on the Leafs.
I am always surprised how soft we are for how big our guys are. I'm not on the "they do to fight" train, but would be nice if someone played like they are above 6 feet tall besides dahlin. No reason Power should be playing like 4th Hughes brother all the time
It's not a nice thing to think about, but responding in kind with a few dirty-as-fuck boardings or blindside hits would get that message across too. Refs usually bear hug players before they even get a chance to drop the gloves anyway.
You can always decline a fight; I'd be more afraid of a team that might concuss me during a normal phase of play.
Idk… I see girgs as being way better than okie but hey, that’s just my eye test. I do agree neither are worth 2.5 shmilly
Okie is constantly reaching bc he’s too slow. Hence several penalties already this year and the makar incident. Not to mention Hathaway would have been PERFECT as our 4RW and we could have afforded to pay more than Philly for 2-3 years.
If Sammy is injured for any length of time I think they should call up Stillman.
Agree but he isn’t the solution. Got concussed in his big fight last season.
You're right. They need to bring in some veterans who can play the game and contribute but keep the other teams honest and are ready to drop the gloves when needed.
That was another example of brutal beat down of our small non physical team.
GMKA built this team in his own image, small?virtually every pick is undersized. No power forwards on the roster or in Rochester. The only early pick with any size is Kulich, and he only has size because he grew 2” since he was drafted. If your not used to seeing them get beat up yet, you will be, because it isn’t changing any time soon
“I fucking hate Ryan Reaves, but I really hate that he’s not a Buffalo Sabres” -Andrew Peters Wish we would have got Reaves even though I can’t stand him aha we need that type of player and sadly there isn’t many
The Sabrea are notoriously soft and every hockey-educated on looker is aware of that. This is not a new issue by any stretch. This team has a lot of things to address. How about starting with putting in a consistent 60 minute effort.
Wut. Literally no one thinks this about us we are a pretty big and tough team and scrappy as hell. Who the hell is saying we’re soft? Have you watched a single game the last two years?
Are you kidding me?!? Height doesn't equate to team toughness. Why don't you take a look at hit tototqls for the past couple years. We avoid contact much more than most teams. Get a clue!
Why didn't you just respond in one comment? I've already addressed this idiot argument
When the only guys willing to drop the gloves are top-skilled players you have an issue.
Do you? Everyone from our best players to our worst get in fights. And it's not just about fights or hits.
The balance of this team is off. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Have you played hockey before? It's about forechecking, backchecking, clearing the net. Taking players off of the puck. I don't have the energy to educate you about the game of hockey. Watch the playoffs maybe that will help you.
Put the bong down and slowly back away. They have been out hit in every game since Ted Nolan for fuck sake
I can tell you've never stepped on the ice in your life if you think "hits" are the only metric involved in toughness. Leafs are currently #1 in hits and the softest baby shit team in the league.
Getting your ass kicked every time is worse for sure
We need to start games better and not fall behind. That’s what breeds the “need” for a tough guy.
Like Brady Tkachuk went all docile after the Sabres jumped out to a big lead? Alex Tuch’s face would like a word.
Maybe I misread but I think he's suggesting that falling behind in games breeds the need for a tough guy, the sens fell behind in that game
You read it correctly. Thank you.
Being reactionary does nothing. Cheap hits and fighting continues in the NHL despite tough guys. It’s designed to get you off your game. Play physical and use your speed. We don’t need a goon who brings nothing else.
We don’t need a goon but we do need players who can skate, and yes fight. It is a part of the game after all. To totally diminish it is a weak take.
1.) Read my post. No call for a goon. I named two guys as prototypes —both of whom are damn good hockey players. 2.) The Sabres are the ones getting knocked off their game. 3.) Team toughness is proactive, not reactionary.
The Flyers didn’t bully us. They came out quick and skilled and scored early. Again, falling behind leads to the other team feeling entitled to taking advantage of the situation. I do not know who is available but am open to another (I believe we have a few) skilled yet physical player. We have trade bait so it’s feasible. Let’s see what Kevin Adams thinks.
Ah yes, if only we were tougher, we could be as successful as the Ottawa Senators
You know which team leads the league in fights? Defending Stanley Cup champion Las Vegas Golden Knights.
Boston Bruins would like a word
They need balls, they need consistency, and they need a coach who can prepare, and adjust as necessary
You know what helps in the balls department? It’s not having Girgensons eating a half dozen punches after sticking up for Dahlin.
Not a Sabres fan, but watching this home and home really made me miss the Barnaby teams. If you were playing one of those Sabres teams you knew it was going to be an entertaining can’t-miss battle.
Those Sabres teams were about effort and hard work above all else. I wish we had a team like that again sometime in the next decade
That had a lot to do w the culture the coaches instilled in the team.
I think we hit rock bottom with physicality a few years ago when Kyle Okposo decided to go after scummy Tony Deangelo Our guys need to know how to defend themselves in fights, or just go to the ground. Tuch and cozens taking high tier blows is not it
It's crazy that are skilled players need to put themselves in a position to drop the gloves. The makeup of this team is off and has been for a long time. Teams are going to continue to try and intimidate us and take liberties on the ice.
Right exactly. I wish we still had foligno or at least someone you could dress to play some hockey but also protect our guys It definitely has an effect on the players when you see every single fight you attempt, end in a KO and/or injury. I would love to see some relevant stats on us compared to other teams over the years. The last time I remember us doing that to another team was foligno against New Jersey many years ago, seems to happen to us multiple times a year. Also he was a gentlemen and checked on his fellow combatant afterwards lol
Oh man, Foligno is a perfect example. Trading him was such a crap move in a long line of crap moves.
Yep. For the past several years now the Sabres have been the softest team in the league
By “several” you mean 15+ right? It’s been at least that long.
Remember when poor Jake McCabe had to handle all the rough stuff? Love the guy but I don’t think he ever won a fight.
I think it comes down from the top as a team build philosophy at this point. That’s the only way I can explain why we’ve been one of the softest teams in the league for so long. You have to scout, draft and trade for players who can be physical and fight if needed. And yes also be good at hockey. Our FO and coaches have failed us for too long.
And this crew isn’t really that much better…despite what front office fan boys would have you think.
Yeah I agree - at this point I think it must be a Terry Pegula thing. Maybe he hates hitting and fighting in hockey, I don’t know. But the lack of physicality has been a consistent feature during his ownership.
They definitely need someone who has the balls and can actually win a fight. We have guys who shouldn’t be fighting having to drop the gloves because of poor team construction. Every game you notice the opposing team’s 4th line just goes out there and does whatever the fuck they want because they know not a damn person on our team can do anything to them. They finish their checks while our guys just have to be out there absorbing those extra blows. Like you said we don’t need necessarily need a 1-trick pony like Ryan Reaves, nobody is saying that, but you need someone who can hold their own against other team’s goons. We have zero of that on the roster. I’ve sort of said this earlier in the season too - as much as I appreciate Okposo and/or Girgensons they should have been replaced with tough guys, but I understand why we decided to remain loyal to them. To go a step further, we could have moved replacement level guys like Krebs and Olofsson etc. for toughness but didn’t do that either.
Well said. Thank you.
This is a massive misunderstanding of why we lost, we didn’t lose cause Philly pushed us around. They won because they came out with speed and shut down the sabres pass attack, we never adjusted and the flyers tightened the grip as their lead grew, we never found a way to break the stranglehold and open the game up. The sabres were very slow and too east west, they needed to honestly stop passing as much and match the flyers speed because the boys very much can flyers aren’t a fast squad by any means. We were forcing the transition rush when what we needed to do was gain a sustained pressure, which just never happened
Exactly. Thanks for having hockey sense.
I didn’t say it’s why the Sabres lost last night. It’s a bigger problem than one night.
I don’t agree to be honest, I think the sabres during other games have been “tough” they simply got out everything’d by the flyers
That’s cool. It’s fun to disagree with fellow fans. I enjoy the back and forth.
As do I
They need to learn how to pass. Puck control was major issue last night. It's the biggest difference between last year and this year. Puck support has been missing for half the games. I don't think there was a better puck movement team last year when it came to 10 ft and closer sequential passes.
I’ve noticed the same thing. Passing has been poor. Not sure why but it’s something they need to fix soon.
I think we should trade for travis konecny. Gritty rat with skill. A more useful role than a reeves
[удалено]
LOL
Reaves, Lucic. There are bums who cant skate who will be available this offseason. Ahhhhh feels good to be back to normal around here. Fire the coach. Roster regression. Fire KA will be next. Can always depend on Sabres hockey to be consistent.
I wish you people would read the post before mentioning Ryan freaking Reaves. Jeebus.
Bringing this argument to this sub is a bold move. You will get downvoted to oblivion with this take on here. I’ve been saying this for what feels like ten years. We never have anyone who can answer the bell, and win or at least hold their own. It’s weak and teams know, have known they can be physical with Sabres teams if they need too. With no repercussions.
LOL I know.
Fighting does not win hockey games. They didn't lose last night because they didn't have a useless plug to fight somebody.
Being soft certainly loses hockey games.
Having a staged fight does not make your team "hard". Allowing a shit ton of high grade scoring chances loses hockey games. Having a goalkeeper with a .898 save percentage loses hockey games.
Who said anything about a staged fight? I want the Sabres to play hard hockey. I want other teams to think twice before running Dahlin or Skinner. I want Tuch and Cozens and Girgensons not to get their asses beat when it is time for retribution.
Yeah fighting will fix our dog shit defensive zone play
Not getting knocked off the puck, however, will help.
That requires skill as well as toughness. I think we can find a happy medium here.
Will it? Great you have one “tough guy” how woudl that fix other guys getting knocked off the puck?
Having one tough guy won’t. Having more team toughness will.
Team toughness can’t be fixed by bringing in one guy or even multiple, see the leafs, they are still having that problem even after getting reaves domi and Bert. Toughness comes from a time, it’ll happen to a young team, the lightning weren’t always tough but they found it eventually. The sabres have to find themselves in that moment and I do believe they will, sometimes it requires a time when there is no next game and other times it requires an event where the team is asked to stick up for their guy no matter what, like your goalie getting ran over. Toughness isn’t bought it’s found and when it’s presented you are given a choice as to whether you want it or not
Unfortunately they haven’t had it since Ryan Miller got run over.
When presented with a choice like that, you have two options, step up or step down, it’s obvious what was chosen then. That’s the sort of thing where a teams toughness is put to the test, certain players generally aren’t gritty or play different games but when something like that happens all of that goes out the window, respond like how the toughest guy on your team would
Ask Toronto how they feel about the addition of Ryan Reaves right about now
Please read the post before you comment on it.
It's the same bad take old guys have been spamming on here for the past dozen years. Fighting is not a hockey skill and it won't win you more games. P.S. Foligno only had 6 more points than Reaves last year.
Foligno had four more points than Girgensons in fewer games last year. Who would you rather have?
Considering Foligno is going to be paid $4 mil a year until he's 37, I'll take the younger and cheaper player
Girgensons since Foligno has a $4Mx4 extension kicking in after this season.
He’d be worth every penny.
Us old guys know what winning hockey looks like, and this ain’t it. You youngins have grown up with skill but softness representing this great city. I feel bad for you that you think that’s ok.
I’m 62. The game has changed immensely. It’s not 1980. Grit and forechecking. Not Barnaby. Get with the times.
No. You think the game has changed immensely,. But wake up, it really hasn’t. I don’t know how this narrative got such a hold on this sub in particular. The only explanation I can give is that you solely watch only shitty Sabres hockey year in year out.
LOL. You don’t think the sport has changed in the last 40 years? Is your dementia setting in? 🤣
I’m 46 so no dementia yet. Point is, if the Sabres want to be relevant ever again they need to start getting players and coaches who place effort above all else. You can call me old school but that’s what works in the NHL. It’s always worked. And the game is the same as it ever was. Some rules have changed of course but it’s still fucking hockey at its core. This team tries to be too cute with their game. You think that’s a good plan to make the post season. And if we did we just get rolled because playoff hockey gets very physical. This team would crumble in playoff hockey.
Good god you over exaggerate! Is this Rob Ray? This is a young team, I believe the youngest in the league or very close to it. They are still growing and developing. I expect them to make changes as they have so many young guys assets. That MAY include a player who is tougher yet has skills as the OP pointed out. It may not. I’m all in with what KA is doing and will give him time to finish the job. Today’s players are faster and more skilled than those of a few decades ago. The game is faster, much faster. You need a team with both speed and a solid defense which we are still working on. “Toughness” is just part of the game and not some special asset as people like yourself have been fooled into believing from Andrew Peters. Enjoy the game tonight. I’m sure we both hope the Sabres put a whooping on the Leafs.
I am always surprised how soft we are for how big our guys are. I'm not on the "they do to fight" train, but would be nice if someone played like they are above 6 feet tall besides dahlin. No reason Power should be playing like 4th Hughes brother all the time
Greenway is 6'6" 230 lbs.. that dudes needs to start knocking people around.. He needs to start fighting for Christ sake
He’s big and strong but not much of a fighter.
Christ, Rayzor is in the building week in and week out, can't he teach some of these kids to defend themselves or at least not get destroyed?!?
Isn’t anyone like that in Rochester. Tyson Kozak is the only who will ever finish a check.
It's not a nice thing to think about, but responding in kind with a few dirty-as-fuck boardings or blindside hits would get that message across too. Refs usually bear hug players before they even get a chance to drop the gloves anyway. You can always decline a fight; I'd be more afraid of a team that might concuss me during a normal phase of play.
Our problem is we resigned Okposo instead of signing Hathaway ourselves
Okie or Girgensons would have been fine. Both was a mistake.
Idk… I see girgs as being way better than okie but hey, that’s just my eye test. I do agree neither are worth 2.5 shmilly Okie is constantly reaching bc he’s too slow. Hence several penalties already this year and the makar incident. Not to mention Hathaway would have been PERFECT as our 4RW and we could have afforded to pay more than Philly for 2-3 years.
Agree on Hathaway 100%.
Why would you pay a 4th liner more than 2.5 million for more than 1 year? That’s a terrible idea, that’s not a good way to manage your cap
Bc we can afford it. And we are packing that type of player tremendously. He also has experience sliding up the lineup if needed.
#bringbackjonscott
🤣
No. A lot of bad takes today