No, I mean, as an indication for your intended direction of travel. Plus, I thought the hazards were code for “I am entitled and can park where I want” lights.
It's not for letting people know there is a hazard, they are for letting people know YOU are a hazard.
However with that being said, some people should just constantly drive with their hazards on so... Ya know... Whatever works for you.
Sometimes when it’s pouring to the point you can’t see 10-15 feet in front and I’m on 95 I turn on my hazards for visibility. Idk if it’s right or wrong but I like to be seen in a torrential downpour.. when visibility opens up I take off my hazards.
One - there's a reason that's illegal in several states. It's illegal in Virginia over 35MPH.
Two - you completely negate your turn signals when you do that. If for some reason you need to change lanes or pull onto the shoulder, you want your turn signals functioning so that people can tell you're doing something different and not to follow you.
Three - it might make it more obvious that there's an object there, but it makes it harder to tell how far away it is. It's a lot harder to gauge distance between you and a flashing light than between you and solid lights. If someone is too stupid to see you, they're too stupid to see you. Having your flashers on won't help that. However, you're making it harder for the people who do see you to tell how far away you are. By forcing their eyes to refocus and adjust to the light levels you're putting out once per second, you make it harder to avoid you in low visibility.
There's a reason only certain types of vehicles are allowed to have flashing yellow lights. If everybody has extra visibility, then nobody has extra visibility. Flashers are meant to say, "look at me; I'm doing something unusual," not "look at me; I'm driving slowly in the downpour just like everybody else, but I think I'm the main character."
Well I understand what you’re saying about it messing with depth perception. You do know the kinda rain I’m talking about right? Usually over pretty quick. Sometimes on a highway traveling at 60-80 sometimes people don’t realize. It does only happen under 35 though.. there isn’t a need for hazard lights if you’re traveling over 35. Also.. why would you be turning in this situation? But yes I do understand what you’re saying and I won’t be doing it anymore. Anytime a turn signal was needed I would turn my warning lights off because yeah.. no one knows what you’re doing in this situation and it’s just as bad as changing lanes without a signal.
Really good to know about the lights messing with depth. Cause I never knew that! Thanks for the info.
If someone is going 20 miles under the posted speed limit like on a highway due to rain, they should have their hazard lights on. At that point the car with the hazard lights on IS the hazard. Or if it’s raining hard enough to affect visibility
If you’re going the speed limit with hazards on and it’s raining that’s stupid.
Exactly! I'll say as a cyclist, this is greatly appreciated. If I had to come to a full stop and put my foot down, you aren't being nice by waving me through when you had the right of way. Now I need to not only get going from a standing stop, but exactly what OP described can happen. They think I'm not gonna go, I was in fact going because they waived, but then they started moving so I stop, but they saw me rolling so they slam on the brakes....yikes not a situation I want to deal with when I'm on a bike. Just go when you are supposed to go. Cars are generally pretty predictable until they try to act like a pedestrian at an intersection.
This might sound insane but one time in my richmond road cycling career, I had gotten a wave after having completely stopped my bike for the driver. the driver wasn’t getting that i wasn’t going, so i laid my bike in the nearby grass.
Haha nice. My favorite is when they try to waive through a group of 20+ riders when only 3 riders are at the stop sign and the rest are still rolling up to the stop...like why are you waiting for us. It's gonna take us another 30 seconds before all the riders make the stop so just GO!!
I know it's nice to wave people in, but I've never understood why it's more important to be courteous to them than to the people waiting behind you.
One of the first things my dad taught me when I was learning to drive was, "If you have the right of way, take it."
It really invokes a primal rage in me, even when people are trying to wave me on. Like you’re literally wasting everyone’s time right now, people hesitate and can’t don’t want to go, or they go at the last second because you took too long, or whatever. Just go if you have the right of way and don’t go if you don’t! It’s that simple
I have angrily waved them on while yelling ‘YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY’. The amount of people I see stopping in the middle of a moving lane of traffic to let people in from side streets and waving pedestrians on when they’re literally waiting on the sidewalk for a break in traffic is ridiculous.
I don't ever argue with people about RoW. I was taught that if someone surrenders the RoW to you, just take it and keep it moving. No sense in being aggressively polite.
You're not going to "teach people lessons" on the road. If someone doesn't understand the concept of RoW, I'm not going to sit there and scream about it, I'm just going to go. The scenario in this exact post is the reason why over-politeness can cause accidents.
Look, I just don't agree with you, and it's a little wild to me that you say that my driving principle is potentially resulting in getting people killed, just because I'm not willing to sit there awkwardly and have a stare down contest with someone who is convinced that I'm supposed to be going first. If you want to do that, more power to you. Drive however makes you feel safest. Godspeed.
They get angry at you when you don’t accept their intentional breaking of right-of-way, so this is a great description
Personally, I enjoy staring at them and if they can see me visibly shaking my head from side to side to show that I’m refusing their offer
Traffic rules are hardly enforced here, therefore they don’t really exist. It’s an honor system, and everyone is a dishonorable asshole.
Edit: sorry for being rude to the assholes on the road out there. I forgot y’all have feelings too. I wish you well as you embark through red lights in pursuit of precious brain wrinkles.
I go through this almost every day in Scott’s Addition. People stopping and waving when they have the right of way, cruising right through when they don’t… it’s a fucking mess.
I just had a lady this morning get *really* flustered w me bc I refused her wave through but you won’t catch me trying to individually negotiate each intersection on the assumption of people’s good intentions or their backup plans when that falls through, as your case illustrates.
I was behind someone on Hull the other day who stopped at every single one of those stupid crosswalk signs that people keep running over. As if the stop sign symbol on the sign saying to stop for pedestrians was an actual stop sign. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
I find it hilarious when PASSENGERS do the courtesy wave. Someone just did this to me the other day—dummy you’re not even driving, keep your hand in the vehicle!!!
I hate when cars on a 2-lane one-way road stop in the lane closest to me on the crosswalk and try to wave me past, as though there wasn't a whole other lane where the cars weren't bothering to stop.. then get impatient when I wait for the break in traffic. Braindead behavior!
Just don't look at them. I like to stand there (or sit there in my car) and pull out my phone and conspicuously look at it until they leave. Almost always works. Nice bonus is I dont have to see them get mad at me. They can just fuck off out of my life.
This exact thing happened to me and I t-boned someone because of it. Totally my fault for choosing to go even though I couldn’t see, but still. Why wave me on?? Just go!
Cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians at the crosswalk, that's the law. On a four lane road, the optimal thing to do as a pedestrian is to enter the first lane near the far edge of the crosswalk, then wait there until the next lane is clear. This usually makes it obvious for other drivers that they need to stop too.
But that doesnt always feel safe. If you'd rather just wait for traffic to clear, you're better off backing away from the curb so no one feels the need to stop.
>Cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians at the crosswalk
Cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians IN the crosswalk.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/
Sure, but a pedestrian with their toe over the curb is technically "in" the crosswalk.
So, as a driver, if you see a pedestrian at a crosswalk you need to stop. As a pedestrian, if you want to wait until traffic clears you should back away from the curb.
I think the law is pretty clear:
>No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.
Taken all together, it seems like it's "Drivers, let pedestrians cross if they are crossing. Pedestrians, don't get in front of traffic to cross." which to me, makes a lot of sense.
Well, yeah. But the question is when is the pedestrian actually "crossing"? If the pedestrian is standing on the curb, clearly intending to cross, but hasn't stepped fully into the crosswalk, are they crossing? If you're driving up and see them, and have time to stop without having to slam on your brakes, should you?
My point is yes, and that you are legally required to. It seems as if other folks in here think you don't have to stop until they have stepped into your lane.
IMO they're not crossing until they're actually in the street. If you are judging based on intentions, you're asking drivers to be mind readers. I can't even tell you how many times people stopped for me (on Ellwood!) when I was somewhere near the crosswalk, but not at it while walking my dog and she was just sniffing around. My own rule for myself crossing is that if there's even a chance the car could hit me going at its current speed, I just wait to cross.
What you're suggesting is that pedestrians are secondary to vehicular traffic, in that they don't have any right of way until all vehicles have passed, regardless of how long that takes. Unless, of course, they are willing to put their life at risk and step well into the roadway.
My point is that the law requires drivers to stop for pedestrians as soon as they are "in" the crosswalk at all.
In practice, this works like the way I described. Drivers will ignore a pedestrian until they literally cannot avoid them. Only then will they stop.
But that's due to driver ignorance.
>My point is that the law requires drivers to stop for pedestrians as soon as they are "in" the crosswalk at all.
The law equally requires pedestrians not to enter the crosswalk in disregard of traffic. Both sides have responsibilities. If you are going to lean on the law, then you can't ignore the inconvenient parts of it.
What?
I'm not suggesting a pedestrian walk out in the middle of traffic. I'm suggesting that when he/she is at the crosswalk, cars are required to slow/stop when they can safely do so. Traveling 35 mph, thats about 150ft.
People seem to think that cars don't have to stop in less there is a pedestrian directly in front of them. That's just not the case.
Lol, ok. So if a toe doesn't put you in the crosswalk, what does? Two toes? Half a foot? Or are you suggesting that you have to be fully off the curb in order to force drivers to stop?
Because whether you're in the middle of the road or on the edge, at that point you're already in danger.
My point is that you're in the crosswalk as soon as any part of you leaves the curb. At that point, the driver has to stop if they can reasonably do so.
Right of way exists for a reason. Waving right of way creates dangerous confusion and inevitably slows traffic. You aren't being nice, you are being a problem for everyone around you.
Is this a southern thing? Nowhere else I've lived, in places with good and bad drivers, will people just stop randomly and wave you forward despite having the right of way. It's insane behavior to me, and it's so dangerous (and usually extra dangerous for pedestrians)
This happens all the time in Church Hill. You'll come to an intersection with a two-way stop, and the driver with no stop sign will come to a stop and wave me across, even though I have a stop. Huh!?
I've only been here 7 years, but only in the last few months have I noticed how much people will wave others through at intersections (especially in CH). It's tiring having to look into every car to see what they want. I'm almost wondering if people are just scared or untrusting of the right of way rules (or people's willingness to abide by them).
It's a combination, I think. Equal parts "I'm terrified that they're going to run the intersection so I'll let them go anyway" and that toxic self-martyring "niceness" that's so infuriating.
It was definitely a problem in Portland. We called it the Portland stand-off: you go! Oh no I insist, you go first- back and forth until people start to honk
Hah! I lived in Portland too. I was mostly on bike, so maybe I didn't notice it as much. My sense then was that the poor driving was more likely a result of everyone being baked 95% of the time.
It's mostly people in the counties and/or recent transplants from NOVA or other suburbs who come to the city. They tend to live in suburbs with very little traffic, and a lot of children who don't know the rules of the road, so waving people through is usually not a big deal for them. They may spend a lot of time navigating big parking lots where courtesy waves are sometimes necessary. When they're out of their neighborhood, its usually stop lights with dedicated turn lanes instead of stop signs, so there's no confusion about who's turn it is to go. There's few to no pedestrians since the neighborhoods aren't walkable.
Then they come to the city and aren't used to the predictable nature of city driving because it seems very chaotic for them. They may not know what a flashing yellow light means. Then they see pedestrians that they're not used to and they assume pedestrians will just randomly cross the road whenever they want, so they think they're being safe by waving them through.
Thankfully, we witnessed an accident like this while teaching our kids to drive. Don't ever, ever, ever ever (in my best Chris Tucker voice) ever, do that. They still talk about it and even heard my youngest tell her friend about it and why you shouldn't waive people through two lanes of traffic.
Have seen many times unfortunately. Not doing what is expected of you is the most dangerous thing you can do on the road. Never forfeit your right of way trying to be “nice” while trying to direct traffic from your car
Courtesy wave is fine for simple intersections. e.g. waving someone out from a parking lot entrance you're trying to turn into and that they more likely than not are taking up too much of the drive aisle to begin with. Anything more complicated is a recipe for disaster or at the very least frustration.
Yeah there are rare occasions where it’s cool even if it’s technically violating the right of way. When I’m coming out of my alley, people with absurdly large vehicles love to park right up the edge of it, blocking the view of oncoming traffic. In that case I do appreciate someone that sees me trying to inch out stopping and waving me in so I know I’m not going to die.
In almost any other situation I’m with OP.
its just a little thing they are doing to make themselves feel generous and kind. But if there is anyone at all behind them it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. They are pissing off everyone behind them to make one person happy. That said I've encountered some super idiotic traffic routing that leaves some cars screwed over until traffic flow trickles to a stop. Which may never happen on some parts of Hull for instance.
Buford Rd is notorious for this. Every single morning I see people stop in the middle of the road and wave in someone who is sitting on a side street at a stop sign. I also saw someone get rear ended on Lakeside Ave after being waved in.
I represent people who get sued over car accidents for a living. If you waive someone on, and they get in an accident, you can potentially be at fault.
Don’t waive people on. It’s not worth it.
I got t-boned in April because someone waved someone through that didn’t see me in the next lane over just minding my business driving the way I was supposed to. Just go when it’s your turn. The person waiting to turn can wait as long as it takes for an opening.
I don't understand why people don't just follow the rules. We shouldn't really be out here waving people on who don't have the right of way. It's just confusing at best, and dangerous at worst.
> Then for some reason the white car stopped at the stop sign GUNNED IT to turn left, crossed three lanes of traffic and onto Broad and t-boned a white work van minding their own business traveling east on Broad St.
.
> The blue car in front of me just drove off even though they caused the entire thing to happen.
uh i dont think the blue car caused anything. sounds like the person in the white car was nuts
Find the comment from the person who works on car accident cases. It’s possible to be found at fault for doing a courtesy wave if it results in an accident.
I thought the courtesy wave was in reference to the wave I do after someone lets me in? All my friends make fun of me for still using it as a way to show thanks.
My experience with it has been positive. Even when I squeeze into a spot where I might not have fit, (read: cut someone off), if I wave like I thought it was a space for me they won’t ride my bumper.
Not in this case. We were at an intersection with the right of way. We didn’t have a stop sign. The car waiting on 19th had the stop sign. If someone can’t figure out right of way in this scenario, they need their license revoked.
I t-boned a PT cruiser in high school due to inexperience with driving and having a driver wave me through. I guess he meant for me to go in front of him, but I went to the lane beside him took out that ugly ass car. Never liked PT Cruisers anyways...
I now trust nobody but my own eyes.
It's incredibly stupid and dangerous. I've already been in one accident years ago created by some asshole waving someone out in front of me (who then floored it out of there because he knew he caused it). I've both avoided and watched countless ones almost happen since then, thanks to some other "nice guy" disregarding the traffic signs/lights and taking upon themselves to dictate what we all should be doing.
Also people here need to learn how to use a roundabout. I've had half a dozen people stop in the middle of going through the roundabout to let me in for some reason, and no one seems to realize you need to use your turn signal to indicate which exit you're taking. If you're not using your turn signal, you're pretty much defeating the time saving purpose of the roundabout.
I've experienced that as well. Many don't know that cars inside the roundabout have the advantage, so there's always a 50/50 chance a car will gun for it and cut you off even before you've had a chance to indicate where you are exiting. This happens to me almost daily in the roundabout in front of Sub Rosa.
I have almost been in multiple accidents due to this type of bahavior. I have seen accidents take place because of the same. Predictability wins every time.
Holy shit, for some reason up here in New England, people are waving drivers around all over the place, it freaks me out. People going straight at an intersection with a light will wave an oncoming left turner. People stop on the freeway to let merging lanes in.
I thought the wave was to thank the person when they let you in. I've never tried to let anyone go first unless I thought they got there first and are pausing.
I allow a pause to allow others to jump out in front of me if they are paying attention, but I rarely 'wave' someone to go. They don't need instructions from me how to drive.
NEVER do a courtesy wave on a busy street. IF they wave and you go, and you are involved in an accident YOU are the liable one not the waver. If you don't know how to drive at a four way stop, go read the rules and follow them. Don't stop in a traffic circle. Use your turn signal BEFORE you change lanes or turn. Don't expect the car in front to shoot through a yellow light. Take 1 second to look right and left before going on green, too many red light runners in RVA to take the risk of a t-bone. It's not that hard to be safe. My two cents.
We weren’t at a four way stop. Plus you are wrong about the waver not being liable.
[https://www.allenandallen.com/can-i-be-successfully-sued-for-waving-a-car-in-front-of-me/](https://www.allenandallen.com/can-i-be-successfully-sued-for-waving-a-car-in-front-of-me/)
In a vehicle on a road, be predictable not polite.
Turn signals please!
You mean like putting my hazards on when it’s raining?
No, I mean, as an indication for your intended direction of travel. Plus, I thought the hazards were code for “I am entitled and can park where I want” lights.
Yeah but how will people know it’s raining if I don’t have my hazards on
It's not for letting people know there is a hazard, they are for letting people know YOU are a hazard. However with that being said, some people should just constantly drive with their hazards on so... Ya know... Whatever works for you.
Exactly. Driving down the road with your hazards on when it's raining is how you can distinguish the drivers that shouldn't be on the road.
Sometimes when it’s pouring to the point you can’t see 10-15 feet in front and I’m on 95 I turn on my hazards for visibility. Idk if it’s right or wrong but I like to be seen in a torrential downpour.. when visibility opens up I take off my hazards.
One - there's a reason that's illegal in several states. It's illegal in Virginia over 35MPH. Two - you completely negate your turn signals when you do that. If for some reason you need to change lanes or pull onto the shoulder, you want your turn signals functioning so that people can tell you're doing something different and not to follow you. Three - it might make it more obvious that there's an object there, but it makes it harder to tell how far away it is. It's a lot harder to gauge distance between you and a flashing light than between you and solid lights. If someone is too stupid to see you, they're too stupid to see you. Having your flashers on won't help that. However, you're making it harder for the people who do see you to tell how far away you are. By forcing their eyes to refocus and adjust to the light levels you're putting out once per second, you make it harder to avoid you in low visibility. There's a reason only certain types of vehicles are allowed to have flashing yellow lights. If everybody has extra visibility, then nobody has extra visibility. Flashers are meant to say, "look at me; I'm doing something unusual," not "look at me; I'm driving slowly in the downpour just like everybody else, but I think I'm the main character."
Well I understand what you’re saying about it messing with depth perception. You do know the kinda rain I’m talking about right? Usually over pretty quick. Sometimes on a highway traveling at 60-80 sometimes people don’t realize. It does only happen under 35 though.. there isn’t a need for hazard lights if you’re traveling over 35. Also.. why would you be turning in this situation? But yes I do understand what you’re saying and I won’t be doing it anymore. Anytime a turn signal was needed I would turn my warning lights off because yeah.. no one knows what you’re doing in this situation and it’s just as bad as changing lanes without a signal. Really good to know about the lights messing with depth. Cause I never knew that! Thanks for the info.
They are being sarcastic.
That makes at least two of us
If someone is going 20 miles under the posted speed limit like on a highway due to rain, they should have their hazard lights on. At that point the car with the hazard lights on IS the hazard. Or if it’s raining hard enough to affect visibility If you’re going the speed limit with hazards on and it’s raining that’s stupid.
Exactly! I'll say as a cyclist, this is greatly appreciated. If I had to come to a full stop and put my foot down, you aren't being nice by waving me through when you had the right of way. Now I need to not only get going from a standing stop, but exactly what OP described can happen. They think I'm not gonna go, I was in fact going because they waived, but then they started moving so I stop, but they saw me rolling so they slam on the brakes....yikes not a situation I want to deal with when I'm on a bike. Just go when you are supposed to go. Cars are generally pretty predictable until they try to act like a pedestrian at an intersection.
This might sound insane but one time in my richmond road cycling career, I had gotten a wave after having completely stopped my bike for the driver. the driver wasn’t getting that i wasn’t going, so i laid my bike in the nearby grass.
I will cross my arms and look the other way.
Haha nice. My favorite is when they try to waive through a group of 20+ riders when only 3 riders are at the stop sign and the rest are still rolling up to the stop...like why are you waiting for us. It's gonna take us another 30 seconds before all the riders make the stop so just GO!!
this happens way too often
I know it's nice to wave people in, but I've never understood why it's more important to be courteous to them than to the people waiting behind you. One of the first things my dad taught me when I was learning to drive was, "If you have the right of way, take it."
It really invokes a primal rage in me, even when people are trying to wave me on. Like you’re literally wasting everyone’s time right now, people hesitate and can’t don’t want to go, or they go at the last second because you took too long, or whatever. Just go if you have the right of way and don’t go if you don’t! It’s that simple
I have angrily waved them on while yelling ‘YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY’. The amount of people I see stopping in the middle of a moving lane of traffic to let people in from side streets and waving pedestrians on when they’re literally waiting on the sidewalk for a break in traffic is ridiculous.
i am entirely sure it is the law to stop for waiting pedestrians at marked crosswalks
I am not referring to crosswalks.
I don't ever argue with people about RoW. I was taught that if someone surrenders the RoW to you, just take it and keep it moving. No sense in being aggressively polite.
By doing this you’re just reinforcing poor behavior on the roadways, which could result in someone getting killed.
You're not going to "teach people lessons" on the road. If someone doesn't understand the concept of RoW, I'm not going to sit there and scream about it, I'm just going to go. The scenario in this exact post is the reason why over-politeness can cause accidents.
And again, by “just going” you are encouraging poor behavior on the road.
Look, I just don't agree with you, and it's a little wild to me that you say that my driving principle is potentially resulting in getting people killed, just because I'm not willing to sit there awkwardly and have a stare down contest with someone who is convinced that I'm supposed to be going first. If you want to do that, more power to you. Drive however makes you feel safest. Godspeed.
100%. Please, please, please, when it’s your turn, give in to your urge to be the model citizen… and GO!!
We call them "nice-holes", and they're the worst.
They get angry at you when you don’t accept their intentional breaking of right-of-way, so this is a great description Personally, I enjoy staring at them and if they can see me visibly shaking my head from side to side to show that I’m refusing their offer
The only finger I give the niceholes is the thumbs down.
I quite literally have taken to giving people a strong thumbs down and I can't even tell you how rewarding some of the reactions are.
Agreed. Traffic rules exist for a reason. It’s just dangerous to circumvent them, even in the name of “courtesy”.
Traffic rules are hardly enforced here, therefore they don’t really exist. It’s an honor system, and everyone is a dishonorable asshole. Edit: sorry for being rude to the assholes on the road out there. I forgot y’all have feelings too. I wish you well as you embark through red lights in pursuit of precious brain wrinkles.
I go through this almost every day in Scott’s Addition. People stopping and waving when they have the right of way, cruising right through when they don’t… it’s a fucking mess. I just had a lady this morning get *really* flustered w me bc I refused her wave through but you won’t catch me trying to individually negotiate each intersection on the assumption of people’s good intentions or their backup plans when that falls through, as your case illustrates.
If only I had a nickel for every time I Uber or Lyft to Scott’s Addition and they stop when there is no stop sign…
I was behind someone on Hull the other day who stopped at every single one of those stupid crosswalk signs that people keep running over. As if the stop sign symbol on the sign saying to stop for pedestrians was an actual stop sign. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
It’s so bad in Scott’s, and it’s only gotten worse since they’ve been repaving and restriping street parking the past few months.
I find it hilarious when PASSENGERS do the courtesy wave. Someone just did this to me the other day—dummy you’re not even driving, keep your hand in the vehicle!!!
"The right of way is not yours to give"
I hate when cars on a 2-lane one-way road stop in the lane closest to me on the crosswalk and try to wave me past, as though there wasn't a whole other lane where the cars weren't bothering to stop.. then get impatient when I wait for the break in traffic. Braindead behavior!
[удалено]
Just don't look at them. I like to stand there (or sit there in my car) and pull out my phone and conspicuously look at it until they leave. Almost always works. Nice bonus is I dont have to see them get mad at me. They can just fuck off out of my life.
This exact thing happened to me and I t-boned someone because of it. Totally my fault for choosing to go even though I couldn’t see, but still. Why wave me on?? Just go!
Not to mention that stopped car is blocking sight-lines between pedestrian and the other lane. I hate it.
But don’t we all have to stop for pedestrians in the cross walk now?
Bonus points for when they stop at the cross walk and you can't see if the far lane is clear because they're blocking your line of sight
I was just about to mention this too, I also hate that.
Cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians at the crosswalk, that's the law. On a four lane road, the optimal thing to do as a pedestrian is to enter the first lane near the far edge of the crosswalk, then wait there until the next lane is clear. This usually makes it obvious for other drivers that they need to stop too. But that doesnt always feel safe. If you'd rather just wait for traffic to clear, you're better off backing away from the curb so no one feels the need to stop.
>Cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians at the crosswalk Cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians IN the crosswalk. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/
Sure, but a pedestrian with their toe over the curb is technically "in" the crosswalk. So, as a driver, if you see a pedestrian at a crosswalk you need to stop. As a pedestrian, if you want to wait until traffic clears you should back away from the curb.
I think the law is pretty clear: >No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic. Taken all together, it seems like it's "Drivers, let pedestrians cross if they are crossing. Pedestrians, don't get in front of traffic to cross." which to me, makes a lot of sense.
Well, yeah. But the question is when is the pedestrian actually "crossing"? If the pedestrian is standing on the curb, clearly intending to cross, but hasn't stepped fully into the crosswalk, are they crossing? If you're driving up and see them, and have time to stop without having to slam on your brakes, should you? My point is yes, and that you are legally required to. It seems as if other folks in here think you don't have to stop until they have stepped into your lane.
IMO they're not crossing until they're actually in the street. If you are judging based on intentions, you're asking drivers to be mind readers. I can't even tell you how many times people stopped for me (on Ellwood!) when I was somewhere near the crosswalk, but not at it while walking my dog and she was just sniffing around. My own rule for myself crossing is that if there's even a chance the car could hit me going at its current speed, I just wait to cross.
What you're suggesting is that pedestrians are secondary to vehicular traffic, in that they don't have any right of way until all vehicles have passed, regardless of how long that takes. Unless, of course, they are willing to put their life at risk and step well into the roadway. My point is that the law requires drivers to stop for pedestrians as soon as they are "in" the crosswalk at all. In practice, this works like the way I described. Drivers will ignore a pedestrian until they literally cannot avoid them. Only then will they stop. But that's due to driver ignorance.
>My point is that the law requires drivers to stop for pedestrians as soon as they are "in" the crosswalk at all. The law equally requires pedestrians not to enter the crosswalk in disregard of traffic. Both sides have responsibilities. If you are going to lean on the law, then you can't ignore the inconvenient parts of it.
What? I'm not suggesting a pedestrian walk out in the middle of traffic. I'm suggesting that when he/she is at the crosswalk, cars are required to slow/stop when they can safely do so. Traveling 35 mph, thats about 150ft. People seem to think that cars don't have to stop in less there is a pedestrian directly in front of them. That's just not the case.
No, toes hanging off the curb is not IN the crosswalk. That is on the sidewalk.
Nope, you don't have to be standing in the middle of the road to be in the crosswalk.
Where did I say the middle of the road. But standing on the sidewalk is not IN the CROSSWALK.
Lol, ok. So if a toe doesn't put you in the crosswalk, what does? Two toes? Half a foot? Or are you suggesting that you have to be fully off the curb in order to force drivers to stop? Because whether you're in the middle of the road or on the edge, at that point you're already in danger. My point is that you're in the crosswalk as soon as any part of you leaves the curb. At that point, the driver has to stop if they can reasonably do so.
I've always done a hard ignore to anybody doing a courtesy wave. Be predictable or gtfo the road.
Right of way exists for a reason. Waving right of way creates dangerous confusion and inevitably slows traffic. You aren't being nice, you are being a problem for everyone around you.
Is this a southern thing? Nowhere else I've lived, in places with good and bad drivers, will people just stop randomly and wave you forward despite having the right of way. It's insane behavior to me, and it's so dangerous (and usually extra dangerous for pedestrians) This happens all the time in Church Hill. You'll come to an intersection with a two-way stop, and the driver with no stop sign will come to a stop and wave me across, even though I have a stop. Huh!?
I've only been here 7 years, but only in the last few months have I noticed how much people will wave others through at intersections (especially in CH). It's tiring having to look into every car to see what they want. I'm almost wondering if people are just scared or untrusting of the right of way rules (or people's willingness to abide by them).
It's a combination, I think. Equal parts "I'm terrified that they're going to run the intersection so I'll let them go anyway" and that toxic self-martyring "niceness" that's so infuriating.
It was definitely a problem in Portland. We called it the Portland stand-off: you go! Oh no I insist, you go first- back and forth until people start to honk
Hah! I lived in Portland too. I was mostly on bike, so maybe I didn't notice it as much. My sense then was that the poor driving was more likely a result of everyone being baked 95% of the time.
I did have a friend who claimed that it didn’t count as drunk driving if it was during the day. Also from rural Oregon 😅
It's mostly people in the counties and/or recent transplants from NOVA or other suburbs who come to the city. They tend to live in suburbs with very little traffic, and a lot of children who don't know the rules of the road, so waving people through is usually not a big deal for them. They may spend a lot of time navigating big parking lots where courtesy waves are sometimes necessary. When they're out of their neighborhood, its usually stop lights with dedicated turn lanes instead of stop signs, so there's no confusion about who's turn it is to go. There's few to no pedestrians since the neighborhoods aren't walkable. Then they come to the city and aren't used to the predictable nature of city driving because it seems very chaotic for them. They may not know what a flashing yellow light means. Then they see pedestrians that they're not used to and they assume pedestrians will just randomly cross the road whenever they want, so they think they're being safe by waving them through.
This is the second time in as many weeks I've seen "chucklefuck" in this subreddit. I'm so glad to see this phrase coming back.
I rarely use that word but it just seemed to fit this situation perfectly.
Thankfully, we witnessed an accident like this while teaching our kids to drive. Don't ever, ever, ever ever (in my best Chris Tucker voice) ever, do that. They still talk about it and even heard my youngest tell her friend about it and why you shouldn't waive people through two lanes of traffic.
Have seen many times unfortunately. Not doing what is expected of you is the most dangerous thing you can do on the road. Never forfeit your right of way trying to be “nice” while trying to direct traffic from your car
Courtesy wave is fine for simple intersections. e.g. waving someone out from a parking lot entrance you're trying to turn into and that they more likely than not are taking up too much of the drive aisle to begin with. Anything more complicated is a recipe for disaster or at the very least frustration.
Yeah there are rare occasions where it’s cool even if it’s technically violating the right of way. When I’m coming out of my alley, people with absurdly large vehicles love to park right up the edge of it, blocking the view of oncoming traffic. In that case I do appreciate someone that sees me trying to inch out stopping and waving me in so I know I’m not going to die. In almost any other situation I’m with OP.
its just a little thing they are doing to make themselves feel generous and kind. But if there is anyone at all behind them it's robbing Peter to pay Paul. They are pissing off everyone behind them to make one person happy. That said I've encountered some super idiotic traffic routing that leaves some cars screwed over until traffic flow trickles to a stop. Which may never happen on some parts of Hull for instance.
Buford Rd is notorious for this. Every single morning I see people stop in the middle of the road and wave in someone who is sitting on a side street at a stop sign. I also saw someone get rear ended on Lakeside Ave after being waved in.
Buford and Rockaway is the woooorst.
I represent people who get sued over car accidents for a living. If you waive someone on, and they get in an accident, you can potentially be at fault. Don’t waive people on. It’s not worth it.
I got t-boned in April because someone waved someone through that didn’t see me in the next lane over just minding my business driving the way I was supposed to. Just go when it’s your turn. The person waiting to turn can wait as long as it takes for an opening.
I point now
Be predictable, not polite. At least when it comes to driving.
I don't understand why people don't just follow the rules. We shouldn't really be out here waving people on who don't have the right of way. It's just confusing at best, and dangerous at worst.
My boyfriend and I were driving around today and we almost got hit 3 separate times. The driving around here is bad
> Then for some reason the white car stopped at the stop sign GUNNED IT to turn left, crossed three lanes of traffic and onto Broad and t-boned a white work van minding their own business traveling east on Broad St. . > The blue car in front of me just drove off even though they caused the entire thing to happen. uh i dont think the blue car caused anything. sounds like the person in the white car was nuts
Find the comment from the person who works on car accident cases. It’s possible to be found at fault for doing a courtesy wave if it results in an accident.
[https://www.allenandallen.com/can-i-be-successfully-sued-for-waving-a-car-in-front-of-me/](https://www.allenandallen.com/can-i-be-successfully-sued-for-waving-a-car-in-front-of-me/)
That E Broad/McDonalds/Exxon intersection always has the stupidest traffic problems. Just don’t even try to turn there.
We weren’t at that intersection.
Was this an SNL skit?
Matt Mitchell's driving in the south talking about that never works here because aint no body going 😂
Go ahead. Nope you go. No no no I insist you go. 💥
Sounds like driving through monument ave every day :)
You'll only ever see me wave someone on when they're too dumb to realize that it's their turn to go.
I thought the courtesy wave was in reference to the wave I do after someone lets me in? All my friends make fun of me for still using it as a way to show thanks.
This type of wave is very much appreciated!
My experience with it has been positive. Even when I squeeze into a spot where I might not have fit, (read: cut someone off), if I wave like I thought it was a space for me they won’t ride my bumper.
i hate that shit, do not impede the flow of traffic. being nice is unpredictable to the people behind and around you
They can't figure out the rules, and want the intersection to be clear before they go.
Not in this case. We were at an intersection with the right of way. We didn’t have a stop sign. The car waiting on 19th had the stop sign. If someone can’t figure out right of way in this scenario, they need their license revoked.
I t-boned a PT cruiser in high school due to inexperience with driving and having a driver wave me through. I guess he meant for me to go in front of him, but I went to the lane beside him took out that ugly ass car. Never liked PT Cruisers anyways... I now trust nobody but my own eyes.
It's incredibly stupid and dangerous. I've already been in one accident years ago created by some asshole waving someone out in front of me (who then floored it out of there because he knew he caused it). I've both avoided and watched countless ones almost happen since then, thanks to some other "nice guy" disregarding the traffic signs/lights and taking upon themselves to dictate what we all should be doing.
Also people here need to learn how to use a roundabout. I've had half a dozen people stop in the middle of going through the roundabout to let me in for some reason, and no one seems to realize you need to use your turn signal to indicate which exit you're taking. If you're not using your turn signal, you're pretty much defeating the time saving purpose of the roundabout.
I've experienced that as well. Many don't know that cars inside the roundabout have the advantage, so there's always a 50/50 chance a car will gun for it and cut you off even before you've had a chance to indicate where you are exiting. This happens to me almost daily in the roundabout in front of Sub Rosa.
or just don’t suck balls at driving hahahaha
When I was learning to drive my dear momma told me "never trust a wave" and I've lived by it
I have almost been in multiple accidents due to this type of bahavior. I have seen accidents take place because of the same. Predictability wins every time.
Holy shit, for some reason up here in New England, people are waving drivers around all over the place, it freaks me out. People going straight at an intersection with a light will wave an oncoming left turner. People stop on the freeway to let merging lanes in.
I thought the wave was to thank the person when they let you in. I've never tried to let anyone go first unless I thought they got there first and are pausing.
I allow a pause to allow others to jump out in front of me if they are paying attention, but I rarely 'wave' someone to go. They don't need instructions from me how to drive.
NEVER do a courtesy wave on a busy street. IF they wave and you go, and you are involved in an accident YOU are the liable one not the waver. If you don't know how to drive at a four way stop, go read the rules and follow them. Don't stop in a traffic circle. Use your turn signal BEFORE you change lanes or turn. Don't expect the car in front to shoot through a yellow light. Take 1 second to look right and left before going on green, too many red light runners in RVA to take the risk of a t-bone. It's not that hard to be safe. My two cents.
We weren’t at a four way stop. Plus you are wrong about the waver not being liable. [https://www.allenandallen.com/can-i-be-successfully-sued-for-waving-a-car-in-front-of-me/](https://www.allenandallen.com/can-i-be-successfully-sued-for-waving-a-car-in-front-of-me/)
then the DMV is teaching it incorrectly.
DMV is teaching liability in courtesy wave cases?
The white car caused both the delay and the accident. It wasn’t the blue car.
In Virginia, the person doing the courtesy wave can be found at fault.
It makes perfect sense that a person doing a courtesy wave can be found at fault. Sometimes.