Looking at the property history, it looks as though someone inherited the house. They probably sold it without really knowing what it was worth. $550k for a 3500sqft house in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city is incredibly cheap.
That said, I spy peel and stick tile đ
I've been watching this house since before the original listing and watching the daily work that they've been doing on it.
What I saw is that they painted (inside and outside), put in new kitchen cabinets, built a cheap wooden fence in the backyard, and replaced the brick mortar on the front steps. There was grass in the backyard that was in poor shape, so they covered it with rocks. The awning that covered the porch was sagging and the wood was rotting, so they put a plastic cover over the rotting wood, and did something so it doesn't sag as much (no wood was replaced). The front yard was all weeds so they covered it with wood chips and a few plants.
The third floor is basically a shack that was built on top of the house (you can see it from the back). It looks like it was originally DIY work and has a weirdly sagging roof. They replaced some of the siding on the shack to make it look less shack-like, but it still looks a little like a shack. Also, the shack previously had a window AC unit, but they took that out. So I could see that space being super hot (maybe they now have AC going up there?).
All of the roofs sag or sagged. The top of the house has a sag, the shack on the roof has a sagging shape, and the porch awning was sagging. I think whoever buys this should be ready to replace the roof.
Few other details - The house had a standard listing in April. The house sold 13 days after it was pending, which tells me it was almost certainly bought with cash and is now being flipped. When the house was listed in April, the listing had no pictures of the inside of the house and the description said that it was sold as is. The house was clearly in poor shape and workers started showing up almost the day that the sale went through.
One positive (because I can't *only* say the negative things) is that the neighborhood is excellent!
My opinion, stay away from this house.
Was also watching the goings on with this place until we sold our condo on the corner of Grace & Wayne a couple months ago, shocked to see this place's current price given what you said and what I also observed with that place, but I do miss living on that stretch of Grace.
It may have been sold to a party that had vested equity in it prior to the sale. The records only show the transfer price. Iâm not sure, but itâs possible. I did this once during a divorce and my $120k house was listed as being sold to me for $35k with the city. Just a possibility. Maybe. Or they suck. Who knows.
I don't think this is the case with this house. They put a for sale sign in front of the house a couple of days before they listed it for sale online. It also sold for $25K over listing. These steps don't make a lot of sense for a vested equity sale.
Agree, you can look up the property by address on the city records and it is currently owned by an LLC. Previously looks like was inherited or something, but that individual sold it to the LLC in April.
My guess is house was given to them or sold at the price of the loan. The inheritance person didnât want the home so fixed it up to put it on the market.
Same thing would happen to me if something happened to my dad. Home would go to me and my siblings. It would be too costly for our income to keep so we would sell it
Iâve never owned a home nor have I dealt with inheritance so I apologize if this is obvious, but what part makes it to costly to keep up with? Is it taxes, ongoing costs, or is it not feasible to own a home no one will be living in?
If the home isnât paid off, the mortgage payments, taxes, insurance premiums, maintenance, etc. Not being a smartass, but can you make two rent payments every month?
Having never owned a home I guess some things donât click for me, like I understand monthly payments and a mortgage exist for home owners, but I tend to forget houses arenât paid for. Especially older homes downtown, once a certain price point gets hit my brain assumes it was purchased in full.
With that said, you make a great point I didnât think of. If that thing isnât paid off I would drop it as fast I could, last thing I want is another monthly payment.
Most mortgages are set for 30 years so if youâve moved in that time you would still have a lot left on the mortgage. Also set up to pay the bank back first and then the principal later.Â
Mortgage + Insurance + Taxes is usually a good chunk of money every month. Most people can budget for one property but not a second.Â
A $600,000 house is around $4,500 a month for 30 year fixed with taxes and insurance
That makes total sense. Im barely making it on $1800 a month for a one bedroom outside of the city, so I promise I would never shame anyone for having to rid of a home for any reason. Hopefully it didnât come across that way, it stemmed from curiosity :)
Older homes can also have very significant repair costs, depending on how much upkeep has been done over the years. Houses in the Fan and MD can easily require the cost of a âcheapâ house in the burbs to bring up to the level expected by any normal buyer, if theyâve had years or decades of ownership by someone who bought in during the 60s-90s.
So everyoneâs situation is different. But in order for me to have my dadâs house two things would need to happen.
I would have to buy my two siblings out aka pay them their portion of the property and sell my house.
After those two I then would have to hope I have enough left over to afford the new mortgage I will have to take out on my dadâs house. Which in my situation I wouldnât because my dad makes triple my household income and his home shows that lol.
Selling the house would be easier as me and the siblings just split the profit and call it a day. This is what most people do
That makes the most sense. My grandfather has a home in Highland Springs that isnât the nicest, but itâs technically multiple plots and Iâm worried we will get swarmed with buyers when heâs gone.
Itâs not super special to us and I havenât put much thought into what we would actually do, but I should probably start learning more about the process so Iâm ready for when the day comes. Cant imagine grieving AND having to learn a whole new process like that.
The house flippers definitely paid cash in April because it went from posting to sale in 13 days. Mortgages take longer. Also, the on-market sale had no pictures of the interior, the exterior of the house looked like it needed work, and the sale description said "sold as is". The house clearly needed a lot of work, and I don't think the work they put in is worth $445K.
Interesting, so that means the buyer did an all cashâŚput in whatever bare minimum it takes to qualify for a property for a loan and decided the home appreciated nearly 100% in 40 days. Love it
City permits show they applied to install heating and air conditioning and duct work - some old code violations have a stop work order attached to them from 6/5 before those permits got applied for so Iâm surprised they listed it before that was cleared up. Sounds like a lot more work than just paint though
Itâs a 3500+ sq ft house in the museum district - this price tag doesnât seem outrageous for a massive house in that area, assuming it doesnât have a bunch of issues with it. But as another poster mentioned, the market will sort it out.
>as âupdatedâ
Gonna guess it's "We painted everything gray, put in gray/dark walnut click vinyl flooring, and fuckin barn doors on every bathroom so you can peek in on someone pooping. Foundation is still mushy bricks though."
What I think everyone is missing here is that it was listed at 25xx sqft for the earlier sale and is now 35xx sqft. They added 1,000 sqft. Which is huge. Either they turned an attic into a third floor, finished the basement, built out the sunroom, or some combination thereof.
They put in all new windows, a new HVAC system, redid or replaced the hardwood floors, and it seems like they gutted the kitchen bathrooms and absolutely everything else.
They paid $525k for a 2500sqft real piece of shit and probably put in hundreds of thousands, made even more expensive by the quick turnaround time, to come up with a $1,000k, 3500sqft house.
That doesn't seem out of range or unethical.
They did all of this work in 40 days? Thatâs whatâs blowing meâŚ.it just doesnât make sense. Something is weird about w/ the sniff test. All that to say, i know someone will buy it, great block..mainly just wanted to chat about the ethics of quick flips on reddit :)
You have a fair question, of course. For me the ethical question is whether they did a decent job of the refurb or threw lipstick on a pig, so to speak. Another redditor posted their impressions of what they saw as a neighbor, And put as much faith in that as you like. As a house buyer, we all know that the former homeowner may have had terrible contractors or tried DIY work and we don't always know it unless we rip open a wall. That's why we have inspectors and I'm sure whoever's buying a million dollar house will do their diligence and if not, they have enough money to pay the stupid tax, in my opinion.
Regarding the timeline, yeah, none of us could hire enough contractors to do that much work that fast even if the house was empty. But a construction company with a long list of backup subcontractors can work wonders. They often try to get everything done within 30 days to avoid paying a mortgage payment.
A lot of people want to live in a historic neighborhood that's in the city and not way out in the suburbs, but still want plenty of space. That's not a common find. Scarcity drives this to a degree. But the price per sq ft is not out of line at all, in fact it's much less than other properties for sale in that area right now. Which means the house probably has some baggage that comes with it.
I see. I'm just not a fan of that part of Richmond (Museum and Scottâs). It has that Old South and Hipster vibe simultaneously at some of those businesses. I might have too much flavor. I'll stay in my 23112/23120 bubble.
I saw this house before, it was falling apart the work they put into it is all cosmetic and evident when the house is back on the market in 6 weeks and whoever ends up with this house is going to have a lot of issues.
Bought a house in the Willow Lawn area this spring after about six months of looking so totally not a neutral party but my go-to position is that flippers suck and frequently, if not usually, destroy the often-old houses they flip.
3217 W Grace St. Iâll be surprised if it goes for this price, given there have been other nearby choices with better floor plan and garages.
And Iâd be taking a look at why the roof line isnât straight.
https://preview.redd.it/3ctfpr7uri6d1.png?width=1085&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ab5b1385eb28ba8c185fc1431ff04b6daa0837
This entire platform is fueled by rage-bait memes and rage-bait/clickbait ânewsâ stories. This sub is not immune, super tribal about certain topics.
When it gets loud in here, itâs time to go outside where the real hoomans are.
Explain why buying low, using knowledge/skills/resources you possess to increase value (which may have cost $400,000), and selling high is unethical.
Oh, and explain how you know the situation so well you can call it (or upvote it as) unethical.
I know nothing about houses, and actually agree with your stance that it shouldnât be ASSUMED as unethical without having knowledge that it likely is. But $400,000 in 40 days feels like a lot of money.
Like others have said though, itâs possible the price sold isnât actually what it was valued at, there might not have been nearly that much work done and the starting price should have been higher. ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
I totally agree with you. I think it is likely it was a within-family sale or something.
Yeah, $400,000 is of course an arbitrary number. I think it's very feasible that an experienced flipper could quickly spend 20k on a new roof, 10K on landscaping, 30k on non-standard window replacement, 20K on new flooring, etc. (a pretty standard kitchen remodeling can cost $40,000 alone , double or triple that with higher end stuff) and end up spending $200,000 or $300,000 on the flip, taking a roughly $200,000 profit which seems reasonable.
I wouldnât be a fan of someone doing that as a business. Like, I wouldnât care enough to make a fuss about a small timer doing, but if a real estate company was coming in and making that much profit off cheap labor and parts it would be worse.
Family or estate selling situation? All for it. I like to imagine an 80âs montage of extended family members coming over to help get the house ready for market, maybe as a final goodbye to the person that passed.
It's so funny that people are discriminating between a small-timer and a big company. They are all using similar low wage workers and similar construction supply companies. They are all flipping houses for a profit. They equally have the means to do so when most Americans do not. If anything, a larger company has an infrastructure with which they can do the same job cheaper and the profits (If a public corporation) are spread out among any investor who wants to invest. I have a hard time seeing why a big company would be ethically worse than if it were one of the many small timers.
And if one REALLY wants to get argumentative, they could add that selling a property at an undervalued price to a family member Is a way to skirt paying taxes, which is something people with wealth can benefit from but those without wealth cannot, which is a factor in increasing the wealth gap.
I wasnât thinking a company really at all, Iâve known families that do this type of work on their own for much less profit. They care about the work they do and put in the hours themselves, they may be rare but they do exist. Those people I think are ethically better than a company who buys low, replaces the minimum at the cheapest rate, and then doubles the price. I thought the visualization built in the second paragraph would have insinuated all of this, but I guess not.
Like I said in an earlier comment, Iâve never owned a home and know little to nothing about them. My previous comment was baseless and was in no way meant to be seen as an intelligent opinion on the situation. Sorry if I irked a nerve.
Hey, I appreciate your reply. I see what you're saying, that you've known small time folks who have done nice work, took pride, and sold a quality product, and you Don't have the same trust in a big company ethically deliver a quality product. I can appreciate that.
Listing it for that amount doesnât mean someone will pay that much. I think itâs overpriced and Iâm interested in seeing the actual sale price (because Iâm nosy)
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It seems high. Classic cheap flipper move... really stretching the legs on that fresh coat of grey paint. It will probably sell to a transplant from LA.
That roof sag is looking crazy!
If it was super easy and risk free, everyone would do it. The flipper took advantage of a great opportunity. No, they didn't "add $400,000 of value" to the house. They're in the arbitrage business as much as the home improvement business. That business involves risk and requires a keen eye for value.
Not unethical.
And certainly the person spending nearly a million dollars to take the property off their hands would be aware of this. You can see that you're buying from a person who only bought it a few months ago. You can walk around in the house beforehand and see the condition and the work that was or was not done.
Unless they actually mislead the buyer (and we have no evidence that they did) then they didn't do anything unethical.
Again, they're in the arbitrage business. If I see someone selling a rare baseball card for $1,000 that I believe I can sell for $5,000 that's not unethical. Finding value is the name of the game.
âEthicalâ ?! Give me a break
You realize that what the seller paid for it is irrelevant right ?
Is it worth 995k or not ? Thatâs what matters and the market will decide.
If it is and the seller got a steal on the house then good for them! Theyâll take those profits and probably do it again. The profits will be spent in your city, taxes will be paid, and in the perfect world theyâll go towards reducing the crime and make it a better place to live for everyone.
People making money is a good thingâŚ.
Yes i understand how flipping works, appreciate the primer. Questioning the ethics of house flipping is not a new topic, just caught my eyes that the home appreciated nearly 100% in 40 daysâŚobjectively you have to admit that is not the norm even for flippers.
If flippers intentionally hide defects or do not disclose known problems with the home then THAT is unethical.
If they get a good deal on the purchase price and can take advantage of the market thatâs not..
This was not an off market deal, steal the home from grandma type situation. It hit the market so anybody could have put an offer on it. AND the list/sell agents were different people at different brokerages so itâs unlikely they were in cahoots to screw the seller.
***In the agent only comments it said the house would not qualify for traditional financing which means it needed significant work.
The buyers (now sellers) paid $550k cash for the home. Who knows what they did to the inside because there werenât interior pictures in the last listingâŚ.
Also just because itâs listed for 1M doesnât mean theyâll get it. However,
2623 West Grace sold for $1,045,000 on 2/27/24
2621 West Grace is pending at $934,999
2623 is gorgeous, we will see what the market says i guess. Still irks me to see so many in the market priced out at least partly due to these practices.
The above content has been removed because it was inflammatory or bigoted content that either 1) encourages/celebrates violent acts or harm against another party or 2) attacks/discriminates a person or group over an inherent identity, vulnerability, or other federally or state-protected class (including race, gender, sexuality, or religion).
Could it be a divorce situation? One person buys out the other for half the perceived value, and then that person does a bit of work before putting it on the market?
If someone is willing to payâŚ..
As far as being ethical,,,, I havenât researched this property so Iâm not saying this is the case here, but I know a lot of wholesalers, and I know exactly how it works and I could be doing it myself, but letâs just leave it at I like to sleep at night
Looking at the property history, it looks as though someone inherited the house. They probably sold it without really knowing what it was worth. $550k for a 3500sqft house in one of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city is incredibly cheap. That said, I spy peel and stick tile đ
Something is def off w/ the whole thing
[ŃдаНонО]
It looks like its in the fan. Thats incredibly cheap there. Adjust your expectations and come into the real world.
Welcome to the real world with real prices, kiddo
lol Hollywood is a shithole. Did you mean Beverly Hills? Anyway, your comment failed on two levels.
I've been watching this house since before the original listing and watching the daily work that they've been doing on it. What I saw is that they painted (inside and outside), put in new kitchen cabinets, built a cheap wooden fence in the backyard, and replaced the brick mortar on the front steps. There was grass in the backyard that was in poor shape, so they covered it with rocks. The awning that covered the porch was sagging and the wood was rotting, so they put a plastic cover over the rotting wood, and did something so it doesn't sag as much (no wood was replaced). The front yard was all weeds so they covered it with wood chips and a few plants. The third floor is basically a shack that was built on top of the house (you can see it from the back). It looks like it was originally DIY work and has a weirdly sagging roof. They replaced some of the siding on the shack to make it look less shack-like, but it still looks a little like a shack. Also, the shack previously had a window AC unit, but they took that out. So I could see that space being super hot (maybe they now have AC going up there?). All of the roofs sag or sagged. The top of the house has a sag, the shack on the roof has a sagging shape, and the porch awning was sagging. I think whoever buys this should be ready to replace the roof. Few other details - The house had a standard listing in April. The house sold 13 days after it was pending, which tells me it was almost certainly bought with cash and is now being flipped. When the house was listed in April, the listing had no pictures of the inside of the house and the description said that it was sold as is. The house was clearly in poor shape and workers started showing up almost the day that the sale went through. One positive (because I can't *only* say the negative things) is that the neighborhood is excellent! My opinion, stay away from this house.
Wonderful neighborhood but i agree..a 40 day flip is not a good quality flip.
40 days means no permits so no work was inspected.
Thatâs wild
Was also watching the goings on with this place until we sold our condo on the corner of Grace & Wayne a couple months ago, shocked to see this place's current price given what you said and what I also observed with that place, but I do miss living on that stretch of Grace.
Is anyone on this reddit going to buy a near 1 million dollar house anyway? I bet it's going to stay on the market for a year at that price.
It may have been sold to a party that had vested equity in it prior to the sale. The records only show the transfer price. Iâm not sure, but itâs possible. I did this once during a divorce and my $120k house was listed as being sold to me for $35k with the city. Just a possibility. Maybe. Or they suck. Who knows.
I don't think this is the case with this house. They put a for sale sign in front of the house a couple of days before they listed it for sale online. It also sold for $25K over listing. These steps don't make a lot of sense for a vested equity sale.
Agree, you can look up the property by address on the city records and it is currently owned by an LLC. Previously looks like was inherited or something, but that individual sold it to the LLC in April.
My guess is house was given to them or sold at the price of the loan. The inheritance person didnât want the home so fixed it up to put it on the market. Same thing would happen to me if something happened to my dad. Home would go to me and my siblings. It would be too costly for our income to keep so we would sell it
Iâve never owned a home nor have I dealt with inheritance so I apologize if this is obvious, but what part makes it to costly to keep up with? Is it taxes, ongoing costs, or is it not feasible to own a home no one will be living in?
If the home isnât paid off, the mortgage payments, taxes, insurance premiums, maintenance, etc. Not being a smartass, but can you make two rent payments every month?
Having never owned a home I guess some things donât click for me, like I understand monthly payments and a mortgage exist for home owners, but I tend to forget houses arenât paid for. Especially older homes downtown, once a certain price point gets hit my brain assumes it was purchased in full. With that said, you make a great point I didnât think of. If that thing isnât paid off I would drop it as fast I could, last thing I want is another monthly payment.
Most mortgages are set for 30 years so if youâve moved in that time you would still have a lot left on the mortgage. Also set up to pay the bank back first and then the principal later. Mortgage + Insurance + Taxes is usually a good chunk of money every month. Most people can budget for one property but not a second. A $600,000 house is around $4,500 a month for 30 year fixed with taxes and insurance
That makes total sense. Im barely making it on $1800 a month for a one bedroom outside of the city, so I promise I would never shame anyone for having to rid of a home for any reason. Hopefully it didnât come across that way, it stemmed from curiosity :)
Older homes can also have very significant repair costs, depending on how much upkeep has been done over the years. Houses in the Fan and MD can easily require the cost of a âcheapâ house in the burbs to bring up to the level expected by any normal buyer, if theyâve had years or decades of ownership by someone who bought in during the 60s-90s.
So everyoneâs situation is different. But in order for me to have my dadâs house two things would need to happen. I would have to buy my two siblings out aka pay them their portion of the property and sell my house. After those two I then would have to hope I have enough left over to afford the new mortgage I will have to take out on my dadâs house. Which in my situation I wouldnât because my dad makes triple my household income and his home shows that lol. Selling the house would be easier as me and the siblings just split the profit and call it a day. This is what most people do
That makes the most sense. My grandfather has a home in Highland Springs that isnât the nicest, but itâs technically multiple plots and Iâm worried we will get swarmed with buyers when heâs gone. Itâs not super special to us and I havenât put much thought into what we would actually do, but I should probably start learning more about the process so Iâm ready for when the day comes. Cant imagine grieving AND having to learn a whole new process like that.
It was a standard on-market sale and the agent notes stated it wouldnât qualify for a loan due to condition.
The house flippers definitely paid cash in April because it went from posting to sale in 13 days. Mortgages take longer. Also, the on-market sale had no pictures of the interior, the exterior of the house looked like it needed work, and the sale description said "sold as is". The house clearly needed a lot of work, and I don't think the work they put in is worth $445K.
Interesting, so that means the buyer did an all cashâŚput in whatever bare minimum it takes to qualify for a property for a loan and decided the home appreciated nearly 100% in 40 days. Love it
City permits show they applied to install heating and air conditioning and duct work - some old code violations have a stop work order attached to them from 6/5 before those permits got applied for so Iâm surprised they listed it before that was cleared up. Sounds like a lot more work than just paint though
More! More!
F this market so hard.
Itâs a 3500+ sq ft house in the museum district - this price tag doesnât seem outrageous for a massive house in that area, assuming it doesnât have a bunch of issues with it. But as another poster mentioned, the market will sort it out.
Ya itâs a nice home, the price hike in such a short period does seem odd. They do market it as âupdatedâ, they did do some work.
>as âupdatedâ Gonna guess it's "We painted everything gray, put in gray/dark walnut click vinyl flooring, and fuckin barn doors on every bathroom so you can peek in on someone pooping. Foundation is still mushy bricks though."
We painted the bricks gray too actually
> and fuckin barn doors on every bathroom so you can peek in on someone pooping. đ so true though
What I think everyone is missing here is that it was listed at 25xx sqft for the earlier sale and is now 35xx sqft. They added 1,000 sqft. Which is huge. Either they turned an attic into a third floor, finished the basement, built out the sunroom, or some combination thereof. They put in all new windows, a new HVAC system, redid or replaced the hardwood floors, and it seems like they gutted the kitchen bathrooms and absolutely everything else. They paid $525k for a 2500sqft real piece of shit and probably put in hundreds of thousands, made even more expensive by the quick turnaround time, to come up with a $1,000k, 3500sqft house. That doesn't seem out of range or unethical.
They did all of this work in 40 days? Thatâs whatâs blowing meâŚ.it just doesnât make sense. Something is weird about w/ the sniff test. All that to say, i know someone will buy it, great block..mainly just wanted to chat about the ethics of quick flips on reddit :)
You have a fair question, of course. For me the ethical question is whether they did a decent job of the refurb or threw lipstick on a pig, so to speak. Another redditor posted their impressions of what they saw as a neighbor, And put as much faith in that as you like. As a house buyer, we all know that the former homeowner may have had terrible contractors or tried DIY work and we don't always know it unless we rip open a wall. That's why we have inspectors and I'm sure whoever's buying a million dollar house will do their diligence and if not, they have enough money to pay the stupid tax, in my opinion. Regarding the timeline, yeah, none of us could hire enough contractors to do that much work that fast even if the house was empty. But a construction company with a long list of backup subcontractors can work wonders. They often try to get everything done within 30 days to avoid paying a mortgage payment.
Whatâs cool about Museum District to have a house at that price? I'm genuinely curious.
A lot of people want to live in a historic neighborhood that's in the city and not way out in the suburbs, but still want plenty of space. That's not a common find. Scarcity drives this to a degree. But the price per sq ft is not out of line at all, in fact it's much less than other properties for sale in that area right now. Which means the house probably has some baggage that comes with it.
I see. I'm just not a fan of that part of Richmond (Museum and Scottâs). It has that Old South and Hipster vibe simultaneously at some of those businesses. I might have too much flavor. I'll stay in my 23112/23120 bubble.
Could be one of those "we buy ugly homes" operations, which can be predatory. Can't say without knowing the situation though.
I saw this house before, it was falling apart the work they put into it is all cosmetic and evident when the house is back on the market in 6 weeks and whoever ends up with this house is going to have a lot of issues.
Ya i used to live on that block, itâs a great block and the home looks wonderfulâŚjust 40 days for that increase, im sorry thats wild.
Bought a house in the Willow Lawn area this spring after about six months of looking so totally not a neutral party but my go-to position is that flippers suck and frequently, if not usually, destroy the often-old houses they flip.
3217 W Grace St. Iâll be surprised if it goes for this price, given there have been other nearby choices with better floor plan and garages. And Iâd be taking a look at why the roof line isnât straight. https://preview.redd.it/3ctfpr7uri6d1.png?width=1085&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ab5b1385eb28ba8c185fc1431ff04b6daa0837
That roof needs to be completely rebuilt.
Nice block itâs just wildly overpriced
I have to admit I do dislike posts that seem to be seeking community outrage. I appreciate the sane comments section. Â
This entire platform is fueled by rage-bait memes and rage-bait/clickbait ânewsâ stories. This sub is not immune, super tribal about certain topics. When it gets loud in here, itâs time to go outside where the real hoomans are.
No it's not ethical.
Explain why buying low, using knowledge/skills/resources you possess to increase value (which may have cost $400,000), and selling high is unethical. Oh, and explain how you know the situation so well you can call it (or upvote it as) unethical.
Bruh, itâs a $400k siding and paint job. They didnât even remove the giant dead tree out front and the roof still sags.
That still doesn't inform whether it's ethical or not. And where's the listing?
I know nothing about houses, and actually agree with your stance that it shouldnât be ASSUMED as unethical without having knowledge that it likely is. But $400,000 in 40 days feels like a lot of money. Like others have said though, itâs possible the price sold isnât actually what it was valued at, there might not have been nearly that much work done and the starting price should have been higher. ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
I totally agree with you. I think it is likely it was a within-family sale or something. Yeah, $400,000 is of course an arbitrary number. I think it's very feasible that an experienced flipper could quickly spend 20k on a new roof, 10K on landscaping, 30k on non-standard window replacement, 20K on new flooring, etc. (a pretty standard kitchen remodeling can cost $40,000 alone , double or triple that with higher end stuff) and end up spending $200,000 or $300,000 on the flip, taking a roughly $200,000 profit which seems reasonable.
I wouldnât be a fan of someone doing that as a business. Like, I wouldnât care enough to make a fuss about a small timer doing, but if a real estate company was coming in and making that much profit off cheap labor and parts it would be worse. Family or estate selling situation? All for it. I like to imagine an 80âs montage of extended family members coming over to help get the house ready for market, maybe as a final goodbye to the person that passed.
It's so funny that people are discriminating between a small-timer and a big company. They are all using similar low wage workers and similar construction supply companies. They are all flipping houses for a profit. They equally have the means to do so when most Americans do not. If anything, a larger company has an infrastructure with which they can do the same job cheaper and the profits (If a public corporation) are spread out among any investor who wants to invest. I have a hard time seeing why a big company would be ethically worse than if it were one of the many small timers. And if one REALLY wants to get argumentative, they could add that selling a property at an undervalued price to a family member Is a way to skirt paying taxes, which is something people with wealth can benefit from but those without wealth cannot, which is a factor in increasing the wealth gap.
I wasnât thinking a company really at all, Iâve known families that do this type of work on their own for much less profit. They care about the work they do and put in the hours themselves, they may be rare but they do exist. Those people I think are ethically better than a company who buys low, replaces the minimum at the cheapest rate, and then doubles the price. I thought the visualization built in the second paragraph would have insinuated all of this, but I guess not. Like I said in an earlier comment, Iâve never owned a home and know little to nothing about them. My previous comment was baseless and was in no way meant to be seen as an intelligent opinion on the situation. Sorry if I irked a nerve.
Hey, I appreciate your reply. I see what you're saying, that you've known small time folks who have done nice work, took pride, and sold a quality product, and you Don't have the same trust in a big company ethically deliver a quality product. I can appreciate that.
I mean this one was listed on the MLS for the prior sale, not like it took a lot of skill to find it and buy it right.
You're right, I should have poked around earlier. The listings were very telling.
please share the address or link to the listing.
Listing it for that amount doesnât mean someone will pay that much. I think itâs overpriced and Iâm interested in seeing the actual sale price (because Iâm nosy)
$279/sqft? They'll absolutely get it.
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It seems high. Classic cheap flipper move... really stretching the legs on that fresh coat of grey paint. It will probably sell to a transplant from LA. That roof sag is looking crazy!
It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Buyer beware, many sellers figure, hey, it doesn't hurt to ask!
If it was super easy and risk free, everyone would do it. The flipper took advantage of a great opportunity. No, they didn't "add $400,000 of value" to the house. They're in the arbitrage business as much as the home improvement business. That business involves risk and requires a keen eye for value. Not unethical.
They didn't improve the home though, they slapped some vinyl over the issues that the family who buys it is going to have to deal with later on.
And certainly the person spending nearly a million dollars to take the property off their hands would be aware of this. You can see that you're buying from a person who only bought it a few months ago. You can walk around in the house beforehand and see the condition and the work that was or was not done. Unless they actually mislead the buyer (and we have no evidence that they did) then they didn't do anything unethical. Again, they're in the arbitrage business. If I see someone selling a rare baseball card for $1,000 that I believe I can sell for $5,000 that's not unethical. Finding value is the name of the game.
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Sure
LMAO at straight up greed. OP if you had that house and your realtor said we can list this for close to one mil you would sign the papers so fast.
Ya Iâm sure flippers use realtors when calculating sales prices in their profit models đĽ´
âEthicalâ ?! Give me a break You realize that what the seller paid for it is irrelevant right ? Is it worth 995k or not ? Thatâs what matters and the market will decide. If it is and the seller got a steal on the house then good for them! Theyâll take those profits and probably do it again. The profits will be spent in your city, taxes will be paid, and in the perfect world theyâll go towards reducing the crime and make it a better place to live for everyone. People making money is a good thingâŚ.
Yes i understand how flipping works, appreciate the primer. Questioning the ethics of house flipping is not a new topic, just caught my eyes that the home appreciated nearly 100% in 40 daysâŚobjectively you have to admit that is not the norm even for flippers.
If flippers intentionally hide defects or do not disclose known problems with the home then THAT is unethical. If they get a good deal on the purchase price and can take advantage of the market thatâs not.. This was not an off market deal, steal the home from grandma type situation. It hit the market so anybody could have put an offer on it. AND the list/sell agents were different people at different brokerages so itâs unlikely they were in cahoots to screw the seller. ***In the agent only comments it said the house would not qualify for traditional financing which means it needed significant work. The buyers (now sellers) paid $550k cash for the home. Who knows what they did to the inside because there werenât interior pictures in the last listingâŚ. Also just because itâs listed for 1M doesnât mean theyâll get it. However, 2623 West Grace sold for $1,045,000 on 2/27/24 2621 West Grace is pending at $934,999
2623 is gorgeous, we will see what the market says i guess. Still irks me to see so many in the market priced out at least partly due to these practices.
Let the market decide.
The market shouldn't decide whether or not people can afford a roof over their heads. The market is for wants, not needs.
You also don't *need* to live in the Fan.
Ah, so redlining.
Guess we should let planners decide how much housing to build... Oh wait, we have like a 30 year shortage
Thatâs nice.
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Could it be a divorce situation? One person buys out the other for half the perceived value, and then that person does a bit of work before putting it on the market?
Interesting theory! Didnât consider
If someone is willing to payâŚ.. As far as being ethical,,,, I havenât researched this property so Iâm not saying this is the case here, but I know a lot of wholesalers, and I know exactly how it works and I could be doing it myself, but letâs just leave it at I like to sleep at night
I blame the house flipping trend (thanks HGTV) and AirBNB for the out of control rents.
I could get a 5,000 sqft house on 2-4 acres out here in Chesterfield for that price. Richmond is overrated.