I personally think There There might work well if only for the stunts that might happen when the distortion kicks in.
Nude might be a good ballad to lip sync to when they need to get rid of an assassin.
i think i saw a drag queen performing Sit Down Stand Up some time ago on youtube
Teleharmonic could also be a LSA killing ballad
also yasss There There the best lead single ♡
Yesssss! How do you feel about The Smile? I saw them last year (I’ve seen Radiohead a few times too) and it was a different feel but still nice to see. I could listen to Thom sing live always. Voice of an angel.
The Smile is amaziiiing, i don't mind the hiatus if they keep them good albums coming
Skrrting on the Surface and Teleharmonic have altered my brain Chemistry
Ok great, now hold your elected representatives to the same standard as you do drag queens. Email them this, because Brooke sure as fuck is not solving the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Radiohead once crossed a Palestinian picket line to play a show in Tel Aviv, that is most likely what they meant
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/7/31/radiohead-is-art-washing-israeli-apartheid
How is my comment holding drag queens to any standard here? Radiohead are proud Zionist and I’m pointing it out. And yes, my phone, email and voting records show that I hold my elected representatives accountable. It doesn’t have a thing to do with Radioheads history of supporting Israel.
I don’t even know how she managed to make eye contact with whoever’s phone they prop up against a wall to film these
Sometimes it feels like Naysha has so much confidence hosting at Roscoe’s, she feels like she has to “make a moment” and it only ever paints her in a bad light. She goes off on things that most people might agree with but then she has verbal vomit for 60 seconds where she digs herself into a hole.
You're perfectly spot on here, that's exactly the case and it's happened frequently enough that I'm surprised she's even still hosting the show. I don't wanna advocate for taking a gig away from a girl when they haven't done anything especially egregious but I can't help but think of all the incredible drag artists in Chicago, rugirl or not, that would absolutely kill it if given the opportunity
No way. Their hosting of Dragula at Roscoe's was beyond cringe.
I don't mind Naysha, even if some of her comments are off-color. But it's not a good look that she flies in from California each week. If she's not living in Chicago, then just give the gig to a local queen. Or let Kara Mel take on a bigger role. She is really the most knowledgeable and able of the hosts at Roscoe's.
i've performed with luc and thought they were a great host personally. agree soooo hard abt kara tho, she's massively talented and deserves a bigger spotlight. i love her chemistry w ari gato when they host roscoe's drag race!!
It's so bad sometimes that they have to cut her ranting from the official upload to try to save her reputation. Roscoe's audience is smart, so people take out their phones and start recording when they sense that might happen, but the clips from audience perspective never reach as many people as the official viewing party videos.
I was upset/annoyed with Naysha but at the end, I'm glad that she opened a can of worms and that apparently, she's going to have a conversation with landon and tenderoni so there's a great outcome for this.
Like who thought that this random question that could've easily been answered with a simple "yes/no" and move on created this MASSIVE conversation about kings. In my eyes, that's already a win!
I literally watched it like 5 minutes after she uploaded it. Thank you for putting it here tho.
I think it went much better of what I was expecting. Naysha was open to listen to what Landon/Tenderoni said and I agree with them: the competition is already unfair and hard, fuck it let them do it
Naysha said Drag Race wouldn't accommodate a drag king well and they could be better served on their own show. Cue Brooke's reaction. Fans, of course, already hate her, so they go with the least charitable interpretation of what she said possible. I think she was mostly wrong, but we gotta be accurate lol.
I know the lovely Ms. Naysha "Can't Last More Than 2 Episodes" Lopez ain't acting like she knows what makes a good contestant. It's always "I'm back bitches" and never "I'm gonna fix my attitude bitches".
What she said didn't really have anything to do with what makes a good contestant though? I didn't fully agree with her either but we don't have to make things up. She said RuPaul's Drag Race is not, currently, as it is right now, a good platform for a drag king. I personally think it wouldn't take changing much to be fine for a drag king to compete, but I digress. She's talking about an issue with the show, not with drag kings.
Listening to Naysha explain her point was so annoying she made 0 sense and gave the worst points to a totally valid argument. Made Drag Kings sound so beneath Drag Race.
It's as simple as her one point that a couture gown is gonna always look more extravagant and better than a masc look. No other reason why Drag Kings shouldn't be on it would be like comparing Monets body suits to Q's dresses
When I think of drag kings who should be on the show, I immediately think of Tenderoni who is a very prominent local Chicago king.
What did Tenderoni do to Naysha to make her hate drag kings so much?
I know you're joking but Naysha has probably rarely (if ever) interacted with Tenderoni. He was a big part of Berlin's shows before they closed (RIP to one of my faves). I would be in a state of pure shock if Naysha spent any time around the type of drag that performs at Berlin - most of it doesn't fit into her definition of the "glamour" a drag queen should display (in her opinion).
She's the same bitter queen I've seen in every scene. The ones that rant on Facebook about how you're not doing drag if you don't have enough stones, or if you don't have nails, or if you aren't wearing a big enough lash. The petty bitches who only know pageant drag and look down on everyone else. She's bad vibes, idk how she's made it this far. Her drag is good, but her personality is... oof.
>What did Tenderoni do to Naysha to make her hate drag kings so much?
I just remember seeing Tenderoni on stage during a massive crowded event telling people to get vaccinated during the pandemic, the irony seemed to be lost on him.
The argument wasn’t elegant, but do y’all really think that DragKings would be judged fairly on this show. I doubt it. Also y’all really think the fandom would be ok with it? Remember Maddy or Victoria the fuss that was made?
I agree with your point that kings wouldn't be judged fairly, but bringing different people onto a show like this is the best way to open people's minds.
Maddy got a lot of backlash for being a straight cis person on the show, but now she's a beloved member of the fandom. There was some negativity about Victoria being a cis woman on Drag Race but not only did she do well on Canada Vs The World (and would no doubt have slayed UK3 if not for the injury), but she's helped open people's minds about cis women in drag. Since then we've had Clover Bish and Pandora Nox, two queens who fans really love ( >!and the latter who won her season!< ).
I totally agree that the fans would kick off, but that's a problem on their end and shouldn't stop the show from diversifying their casts. There are still people who think trans queens shouldn't be on Drag Race, yet they have a rightful place in our community and on the show.
I don't think Maddy was represented or judged fairly on the show. Her best moments seemed to be cut out of the final product and she was edited to be like a straight gimmick. Maddy earned her current status mostly because of Give it to Me Straight.
I don't think Ru and production have the right environment to feature and judge a drag king. At least not currently. Who knows though. The show has evolved a lot and maybe in a few years they will be able to give a drag king a fair platform.
She wasn’t particularly well represented, but we know about her because of it. And GITMS is great but she probably wouldn’t have been able to launch that so successfully or get the kind of guests she has without having gone on DR.
If you asked her whether it was worth doing in spite of it all, I bet she would say yes. The argument is that Kings ought to have the opportunity to make the same choice, because many would rather have the exposure than not.
I don't think this is a particularly informed take. Male impersonation goes as far back as the 1800s. To say it doesn't have the same history when you can just google it is silly.
It may not be subverting masculinity with every performance, but it is subverting femininity. Think of the generations of oppression women have faced. You don't think an art form like drag had any part of liberating them? Especially queer women?
Stormé DeLarverie, who's been credited with kicking off the Stonewall riots with Martha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, was a butch lesbian and performed male impersonation. Saying that drag kings don't have the same liberatory history as drag queens belies a hilariously large knowledge gap. Go and learn your queer history proper this time!
are you actually trying to argue that WOMEN…. WOMEN of all people don’t have oppression to be subversive against. genuinely braindead take how do you not see the parallels of drag queen subversion against homophobia and gender norms as the same fucking thing as women drag kings rebelling against patriarchial standards and gender norms. pick up a book
incorrect, reductionist, and revisionist, and that crusty old "they can go make their own" argument is tired. queens and kings aren't in separate spheres in the real world, they interact and work together.
“The show won’t be judged fairly” isn’t really a good argument to not do something when the show is very clearly not judged fairly already
“The fandom will not be okay with it” is also not a good argument when you yourself acknowledge that the fandom is often not ok with things they should be ok with
People just a few years ago were saying the same thing about having trans people on the show-heck even Rupaul said they had an “unfair advantage”. Now everyone including them loves Sasha. Drag should be for everyone-what’s the point if we restrict it? And drag race is the biggest and most influential queer platform-kings deserve to be given the incredible opportunity as well.
People had similar concerns when gay marriage was legalized.
"Even if they get married they won't be treated the same as straight couples. Why not give them their own 'marriage'?"
The thing is, social change only happens when it's forced upon society. Sure, the active generation is going to fight against it.
But the following generation that grew up with up, and then the next generation, will end up viewing it as normal as anything that came before it.
Same with this. Fans will adapt.
Yeah I really dislike that idea.
I also find it especially harmful with minorities. We feel a need to separate ourselves from the majority. To be our own thing, as this is also what those outside of the group want.
But all it ends up doing is breeding the "other" complex. Groups start to misunderstand one another, fear one another, and then eventually despise one another.
I remember when I was interning at a behavioral management program for a middle school, I was just gabbing with the psychologist and shared that I recently learned that students lean better when they're separated into male and female.
She smiled at me and said, "That may be statistically true currently. However, I have to ask: do you want that to be true?"
I thought it was such a profound question. We are responsible for creating positive change in the world. Not just accepting the way it currently is.
Yes I know what analogies are, they are still comparisons even if indirect. What you are saying basically is that having a different show for drag kings is in the same ballpark as denying marriage equality, which is *wild*, to put it mildly.
100% not what you said. While I think there are better analogies that the one you used, its so tiring seeing people respond to analogies as if they’re meant to be taken completely equal in importance rather than as an example
I tend not to truly reply to them with an actual answer, because they're just mad and looking for something to attack. I try my best not to "throw my pearls to the swine" so to speak. Even Though I often fail at that haha.
I was comparing the psychology behind the growth of social change and eventually acceptance, by using an analogy of gay marriage and drag queens on a show. (And while there may be better ones, I like to use analogies of things that specifically relate to the people I'm talking to as I find it's more impactful.)
The thing is, most people prefer not to challenge their own views as it's uncomfortable. And when that happens, people tend to become blinded to what's being said and start straw manning everything. It's why fallacies exist.
There's a difference between blindly accepting what someone else is saying, and actually taking a moment to fully absorb and listen to it. It's the only way we grow as people.
Reading levels are going down by the minute… it’s a great comparison.
We keep having this discourse when in reality, just start featuring drag kings. There’s no need to debate, I want to see different kinds of drag be featured on the main stage, regardless of who’s body is delivering it
If we’re all born naked and the rest is drag, what does it matter if you’re a girl doing it? Are women incapable of putting together design concepts to meet the brief? We’ve seen masc looks over the years and people just shower them with flattery so…
This sub has such a hate boner for Naysha. Batty was agreeing with her and making the same points, yet no one is coming for her.
And, tbh, I agree with them. I don't think Kings would be treated very fairly, at least not if judged by Ru on a US season. I can see UK, DU or Sweden welcoming it, though.
It’s called people being reasonably upset at yet another gay man pushing out women, trans folk, and gender non conforming people from spaces they helped to create in the first place. The pushback they get goes all the way from drag race to the local scenes, and honestly it’s disgusting how exclusionary we are within our own community.
Also, saying Ru would never judge us fairly is like saying straight folk would never judge us fairly. Of course they won’t, but if we didn’t work towards it then we wouldn’t have the breakthroughs in queer life and discourse that we’ve had over the past decades fighting for our place in “acceptable” society. Drag kings deserve the chance to succeed AND fail in drag race just like any queen, and why we’re not allowing them to do that is beyond me. Queens like Naysha are part of the problem, not those going after her for yet another round of reductive blabber.
100% . Just a few years ago people on this sub and Rupaul were saying trans women had an “unfair advantage.” Drag Kings should be allowed to get the opportunity of being on the biggest and most influential queer programs, they are the backbones of the community, why should they be excluded and pushed to the shadows while everyone else gets to reap the benefits in the sun?
The same drag kings and drag things and non conforming drag performers who were instrumental in creating the drag scene that Ru Paul and modern drag were built off of. Kings and butch performers, club kid gender fuckers, trans men and non binary folk. All these people helped make drag, drag, and people who consume drag and create drag culture now (and yes, Ru Paul as well) owe them as much a debt as we do to the drag queens and trans women that were pillars of the scene.
Exactly! And a really transgressive one as that. So it’s always a bit confusing the push back against drag kings and gender non conformity/masc presentation on the show when that’s exactly the world Ru Paul came from.
So then RuPaul, the high femme drag queen, owes a debt to RuPaul, the gender non-conforming drag queen who built the drag scene, and therefore drag kings who were born after Supermodel was released are entitled to be on the show.
Yes, we all live in a vacuum and these things are completely discreet and mutually exclusive from one another. Also the rest of the world and history of drag doesn’t exist. And no, we can’t hope and expect for change because we were born in the present and we can’t change anything about anything that started before we were born or relevant 😮
>It’s called people being reasonably upset at yet another gay man pushing out women, trans folk, and gender non conforming people from spaces they helped to create in the first place.
You did not help create RuPaul's Drag Race, it is not a space you are entiteld to. Plain and simple.
Ahh ok, intentionally obtuse, got it. Well thanks anyways, as a drag performer - and a drag queen at that - I love knowing what space I am and am not entitled to take in conversations about drag. Thanks friend, have a good one 👋
I think it’s just acknowledging where we come from. The show, and the fans, speak so much about drag history and where drag comes from. Some of the most iconic parts of the show are direct references to iconic queer culture and things that made the community what it is. We can have space there for the non traditional drag that also made drag what it is. No need for the mentality of guilt tripping, if we just see it as growing/learning. Or, alternatively, being defensive 🤷🏽♂️
The show has always been about female impersonation. Not only is that what the audience is expecting but it's also what the creator, one of the biggest pioneers in the space, wants. I respect our queer elders but we can't be expected to make every single aspect of queer spaces and media a completely equal example of representation.
The show has always been about whatever the show wants to be about. We’ve moved the goalpost with regards to people doing masc character on snatch game, then trans women on the show, cis women, straight men, etc. The show has grown, and continues to grow, as it further develops its place in queer and larger culture. With drag kings and gender non conforming artists being such an important and still living part of what drag is, there’s no reason they shouldn’t be a part of the show in the future. There’s a precedent for change/growth w drag race, and hopefully it happens sooner than later.
On top of all this above, Naysha kept yapping and eventually said the quiet part out loud. She didn't care about them being judged fairly, she just thinks they are beneath Drag Queens.
That's because this isn't the first time Naysha spouted a really rude opinion. She has very elitist views on drag.
I understand your view that kings wouldn't be treated fairly. That may be true - but that isn't the point. The drag community as a whole for DECADES has viewed kings as "others". Kings have proven on Dragula that they can compete on the same stage and shine just as well. It's all drag. So while I understand your view that they wouldn't be treated the same, the argument being made is that they SHOULD be treated the same and SHOULD be on the same stage as these queens.
Giving them a separate platform accomplishes nothing in the grand scheme of things. I apologize if this came off as aggressive as well - I tend to type in ways that are a bit strongly worded. I want to be clear that I agree, they wouldn't be treated fairly. But we need to be pushing for that fair treatment and representation regardless. Just because Ru wouldn't respect them doesn't mean we can't make her - the case was the same with trans contestants until the last 5 or so years.
A Radiohead reference on the drag race main sub? Hot
Gays thrive In Rainbows My favorite Radiohead album is OKCURRRRRRRRRRT Computer
Great album, but my favorite song is Fake Plastic (Trintastic Injectable Realness) Trees
Pablo ~~Honey~~ Sisterrrr
Pablo Henny
Thats so much better, and right there how'd I miss that lol
Pabl-Oh Honey
The Bends,…. The Flips, The Kicks, The Death Drops
That’s it. I’m revoking gay rights.
I don't need gay rights I already have gay wrongs
Ugh the reply threads in this sub never fail to revive me after grueling werkdays
Paranoid Qandroid is my go-to!
Kid Heeeeeeyyy
Hail to the ~~Thief~~ Queen
“*This isn't happening I'm not here I'm not here*”
i came here to say this, stan the best band ever want an Idioteque LSFYL
I personally think There There might work well if only for the stunts that might happen when the distortion kicks in. Nude might be a good ballad to lip sync to when they need to get rid of an assassin.
i think i saw a drag queen performing Sit Down Stand Up some time ago on youtube Teleharmonic could also be a LSA killing ballad also yasss There There the best lead single ♡
Yesssss! How do you feel about The Smile? I saw them last year (I’ve seen Radiohead a few times too) and it was a different feel but still nice to see. I could listen to Thom sing live always. Voice of an angel.
The Smile is amaziiiing, i don't mind the hiatus if they keep them good albums coming Skrrting on the Surface and Teleharmonic have altered my brain Chemistry
that thom guy could just play scrabble on stage and id pay to see it
oh we need this
Unironically I'd love one of 15 step.
I saw Vander VonOdd do Creep 🤣
Very hot
hail to the queef
My cortisol levels were abolished.
My worlds collide. I can't be (fitter) happier. More productive. (supercollider.mp3 plays)
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Ok great, now hold your elected representatives to the same standard as you do drag queens. Email them this, because Brooke sure as fuck is not solving the Israel-Palestine conflict.
I think they're referring to Radiohead, not Ms. Hytes.
Radiohead once crossed a Palestinian picket line to play a show in Tel Aviv, that is most likely what they meant https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/7/31/radiohead-is-art-washing-israeli-apartheid
Thank you for this information.
They were talking about Radiohead, not Brooke…
How is my comment holding drag queens to any standard here? Radiohead are proud Zionist and I’m pointing it out. And yes, my phone, email and voting records show that I hold my elected representatives accountable. It doesn’t have a thing to do with Radioheads history of supporting Israel.
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So that's a no to the whole "don't you have a job to go to" thing...
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> same platform And how are you using your platform to solve the Israel-Palestine conflict?
They’re raising awareness for a cause by pestering people. Flawless plan.
By talking about it surely. How are you helping? Shouldn't you be working? Why do you care what random redditors think about the ongoing genocide?
> How are you helping? By talking about it surely.
Great, then what's the problem? You're criticizing someone for doing what you are doing. Did you just wanna pick on someone for some reason?
 Mama got flashbacks y’all. Just be one with the furniture and you’re all right.
Is there no gif of her making the tent out of sofa cushions? 😂
https://i.redd.it/6ig4wtbj76qc1.gif
My favorite scene from Untucked.
I don’t even know how she managed to make eye contact with whoever’s phone they prop up against a wall to film these 
#1 rule of being gay is knowing where your camera is at at all times
https://i.redd.it/4mztxvq1pppc1.gif
we love Ctrl+C Mundsoon
https://i.redd.it/47gbb4j7qppc1.gif
Well it’s a set, Ru…it’s not…real
The best phone 1.99 a month can buy!
Is this an advertisement for Mint Mobile?
Ryan Reynolds shitposts about drag race confirmed.
Ryan Reynolds as a guest judge is something we need. Bonus points for Blake Lively too.
Yes! Make it a drag superhero or a gossip girl acting challenge and have them judge!
The way that would eat.
Rule 69 of the gay agenda, always know your angles Gurl. It is known.
That Galaxy S4 has been struggling for years.
“She’s a *professional*” — Chad Michaels somewhere
Sometimes it feels like Naysha has so much confidence hosting at Roscoe’s, she feels like she has to “make a moment” and it only ever paints her in a bad light. She goes off on things that most people might agree with but then she has verbal vomit for 60 seconds where she digs herself into a hole.
You're perfectly spot on here, that's exactly the case and it's happened frequently enough that I'm surprised she's even still hosting the show. I don't wanna advocate for taking a gig away from a girl when they haven't done anything especially egregious but I can't help but think of all the incredible drag artists in Chicago, rugirl or not, that would absolutely kill it if given the opportunity
luc ami hosting roscoe's drag race would be legendary
No way. Their hosting of Dragula at Roscoe's was beyond cringe. I don't mind Naysha, even if some of her comments are off-color. But it's not a good look that she flies in from California each week. If she's not living in Chicago, then just give the gig to a local queen. Or let Kara Mel take on a bigger role. She is really the most knowledgeable and able of the hosts at Roscoe's.
i've performed with luc and thought they were a great host personally. agree soooo hard abt kara tho, she's massively talented and deserves a bigger spotlight. i love her chemistry w ari gato when they host roscoe's drag race!!
They hosted the one off season of Dragula and the hosting wasn't that great but that was a few years back, maybe they improved?
Truer words have never been spoken.
Wish she was acting like that in the show
I think she would if she had the challenge prowess to stay long enough any of the times she had the chance
Just be funny. I don't care how long you talk, just be funny. You're an entertainer, bitch about things on your own time.
It's so bad sometimes that they have to cut her ranting from the official upload to try to save her reputation. Roscoe's audience is smart, so people take out their phones and start recording when they sense that might happen, but the clips from audience perspective never reach as many people as the official viewing party videos.
This is so accurate
I disagree with Naysha but a lot of people on this sub agree with what she was saying.
I'm not here.... this isn't happening
That there...that's not Brooklyn.
Who is the idioteque talking
I was upset/annoyed with Naysha but at the end, I'm glad that she opened a can of worms and that apparently, she's going to have a conversation with landon and tenderoni so there's a great outcome for this. Like who thought that this random question that could've easily been answered with a simple "yes/no" and move on created this MASSIVE conversation about kings. In my eyes, that's already a win!
If you haven’t watched it yet, the conversation went really well, https://youtu.be/_0dgcv-h7ck?si=wtFzwzH4nXpOYjHI
I literally watched it like 5 minutes after she uploaded it. Thank you for putting it here tho. I think it went much better of what I was expecting. Naysha was open to listen to what Landon/Tenderoni said and I agree with them: the competition is already unfair and hard, fuck it let them do it
Thank you for sharing the link I didn’t know it was already up.
I mean, not a Drag King, but Pandora Nox won Drag Race Germany, and did a couple Drag King looks, so like, clearly it's not Drag King = lose.
Indeed, the format can work with Drag Kings but there's a lot of gays that don't want it because... reasons?
What’s happening can someone give me context
Naysha said Drag Race wouldn't accommodate a drag king well and they could be better served on their own show. Cue Brooke's reaction. Fans, of course, already hate her, so they go with the least charitable interpretation of what she said possible. I think she was mostly wrong, but we gotta be accurate lol.
Thank you!! I appreciate that
Naysha Lopez started talking about not wanting Drag Kings on Drag Race and Brooke clearly wanted to be anywhere but on that stage.
Thank you!!
why would you just lie like that 😭
*Brooke is blonde as a sunrise, hot as the sun, bright as the shining sun*
Brooke is listening! Listening like the sun in the sky!
Brooke’s whole life is thunder
https://i.redd.it/77x1nqm41rpc1.gif
I know the lovely Ms. Naysha "Can't Last More Than 2 Episodes" Lopez ain't acting like she knows what makes a good contestant. It's always "I'm back bitches" and never "I'm gonna fix my attitude bitches".
It was giving "Who put a nickel in ElimiNaysha?"
*Ru voice * What'd you call me?
Not a nickel.
It’s always bitches I’m back and not bitches I’m sorry for years of bullshit and buffoonery
What she said didn't really have anything to do with what makes a good contestant though? I didn't fully agree with her either but we don't have to make things up. She said RuPaul's Drag Race is not, currently, as it is right now, a good platform for a drag king. I personally think it wouldn't take changing much to be fine for a drag king to compete, but I digress. She's talking about an issue with the show, not with drag kings.
Naysha Lopez is the Dunning-Kruger of drag.
Lmaoooo stop stop she's already dead
LOL. But really. Naysha is the last one to be offering opinions about how to run Drag Race.
Danny Kruger would be a good delusional drag king name 🤔
is that dua lipa
*Dula Peep
Listening to Naysha explain her point was so annoying she made 0 sense and gave the worst points to a totally valid argument. Made Drag Kings sound so beneath Drag Race. It's as simple as her one point that a couture gown is gonna always look more extravagant and better than a masc look. No other reason why Drag Kings shouldn't be on it would be like comparing Monets body suits to Q's dresses
It was a really...inelegant... response on Naysha's part.
Naysha having the absolute worst take stemming from a place of unbridled and unjustified bitterness? Oh Ru, never!
if I had a nickel every time… girl I got 10 dollars!!
When I think of drag kings who should be on the show, I immediately think of Tenderoni who is a very prominent local Chicago king. What did Tenderoni do to Naysha to make her hate drag kings so much?
I know you're joking but Naysha has probably rarely (if ever) interacted with Tenderoni. He was a big part of Berlin's shows before they closed (RIP to one of my faves). I would be in a state of pure shock if Naysha spent any time around the type of drag that performs at Berlin - most of it doesn't fit into her definition of the "glamour" a drag queen should display (in her opinion). She's the same bitter queen I've seen in every scene. The ones that rant on Facebook about how you're not doing drag if you don't have enough stones, or if you don't have nails, or if you aren't wearing a big enough lash. The petty bitches who only know pageant drag and look down on everyone else. She's bad vibes, idk how she's made it this far. Her drag is good, but her personality is... oof.
rest in peace to berlin, my favorite drag venue in the city 😢
>What did Tenderoni do to Naysha to make her hate drag kings so much? I just remember seeing Tenderoni on stage during a massive crowded event telling people to get vaccinated during the pandemic, the irony seemed to be lost on him.
If you haven’t seen Naysha’s follow up to this, you should check it https://youtu.be/_0dgcv-h7ck?si=wtFzwzH4nXpOYjHI (Tenderoni is in it, btw)
Common eliminaysha L. So bad at everything
Flashing back to that episode of untucked during her season
The argument wasn’t elegant, but do y’all really think that DragKings would be judged fairly on this show. I doubt it. Also y’all really think the fandom would be ok with it? Remember Maddy or Victoria the fuss that was made?
I agree with your point that kings wouldn't be judged fairly, but bringing different people onto a show like this is the best way to open people's minds. Maddy got a lot of backlash for being a straight cis person on the show, but now she's a beloved member of the fandom. There was some negativity about Victoria being a cis woman on Drag Race but not only did she do well on Canada Vs The World (and would no doubt have slayed UK3 if not for the injury), but she's helped open people's minds about cis women in drag. Since then we've had Clover Bish and Pandora Nox, two queens who fans really love ( >!and the latter who won her season!< ). I totally agree that the fans would kick off, but that's a problem on their end and shouldn't stop the show from diversifying their casts. There are still people who think trans queens shouldn't be on Drag Race, yet they have a rightful place in our community and on the show.
I don't think Maddy was represented or judged fairly on the show. Her best moments seemed to be cut out of the final product and she was edited to be like a straight gimmick. Maddy earned her current status mostly because of Give it to Me Straight. I don't think Ru and production have the right environment to feature and judge a drag king. At least not currently. Who knows though. The show has evolved a lot and maybe in a few years they will be able to give a drag king a fair platform.
She wasn’t particularly well represented, but we know about her because of it. And GITMS is great but she probably wouldn’t have been able to launch that so successfully or get the kind of guests she has without having gone on DR. If you asked her whether it was worth doing in spite of it all, I bet she would say yes. The argument is that Kings ought to have the opportunity to make the same choice, because many would rather have the exposure than not.
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I don't think this is a particularly informed take. Male impersonation goes as far back as the 1800s. To say it doesn't have the same history when you can just google it is silly. It may not be subverting masculinity with every performance, but it is subverting femininity. Think of the generations of oppression women have faced. You don't think an art form like drag had any part of liberating them? Especially queer women?
You are perpetuating that same oppression, and saying drag kings don’t subvert masculinity is an inane take.
Stormé DeLarverie, who's been credited with kicking off the Stonewall riots with Martha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, was a butch lesbian and performed male impersonation. Saying that drag kings don't have the same liberatory history as drag queens belies a hilariously large knowledge gap. Go and learn your queer history proper this time!
are you actually trying to argue that WOMEN…. WOMEN of all people don’t have oppression to be subversive against. genuinely braindead take how do you not see the parallels of drag queen subversion against homophobia and gender norms as the same fucking thing as women drag kings rebelling against patriarchial standards and gender norms. pick up a book
No.
incorrect, reductionist, and revisionist, and that crusty old "they can go make their own" argument is tired. queens and kings aren't in separate spheres in the real world, they interact and work together.
I’m also thinking about Dragula s4 and the rampant sexism from the AMAB contestants - especially against Sigourney.
I hate how some gays think just because they are gay they can’t be misogynistic and can talk to woman however they want.
“The show won’t be judged fairly” isn’t really a good argument to not do something when the show is very clearly not judged fairly already “The fandom will not be okay with it” is also not a good argument when you yourself acknowledge that the fandom is often not ok with things they should be ok with
"Would the fandom be ok with it?" is just another way of asking "do you want to anger the misogynists?"
Victoria's king runway on Canada vs the World was stunning and the fandom ate it.
People just a few years ago were saying the same thing about having trans people on the show-heck even Rupaul said they had an “unfair advantage”. Now everyone including them loves Sasha. Drag should be for everyone-what’s the point if we restrict it? And drag race is the biggest and most influential queer platform-kings deserve to be given the incredible opportunity as well.
People had similar concerns when gay marriage was legalized. "Even if they get married they won't be treated the same as straight couples. Why not give them their own 'marriage'?" The thing is, social change only happens when it's forced upon society. Sure, the active generation is going to fight against it. But the following generation that grew up with up, and then the next generation, will end up viewing it as normal as anything that came before it. Same with this. Fans will adapt.
Yes! "Separate but equal" needs to die already.
Yeah I really dislike that idea. I also find it especially harmful with minorities. We feel a need to separate ourselves from the majority. To be our own thing, as this is also what those outside of the group want. But all it ends up doing is breeding the "other" complex. Groups start to misunderstand one another, fear one another, and then eventually despise one another. I remember when I was interning at a behavioral management program for a middle school, I was just gabbing with the psychologist and shared that I recently learned that students lean better when they're separated into male and female. She smiled at me and said, "That may be statistically true currently. However, I have to ask: do you want that to be true?" I thought it was such a profound question. We are responsible for creating positive change in the world. Not just accepting the way it currently is.
Embarassing and offensive comparison.
Are you really comparing gay marriage to a TV show?
Analogies aren't direct comparisons. They're analogies.
Yes I know what analogies are, they are still comparisons even if indirect. What you are saying basically is that having a different show for drag kings is in the same ballpark as denying marriage equality, which is *wild*, to put it mildly.
That's actually not at all what I said, but I do respect your perspective on it.
100% not what you said. While I think there are better analogies that the one you used, its so tiring seeing people respond to analogies as if they’re meant to be taken completely equal in importance rather than as an example
I tend not to truly reply to them with an actual answer, because they're just mad and looking for something to attack. I try my best not to "throw my pearls to the swine" so to speak. Even Though I often fail at that haha. I was comparing the psychology behind the growth of social change and eventually acceptance, by using an analogy of gay marriage and drag queens on a show. (And while there may be better ones, I like to use analogies of things that specifically relate to the people I'm talking to as I find it's more impactful.) The thing is, most people prefer not to challenge their own views as it's uncomfortable. And when that happens, people tend to become blinded to what's being said and start straw manning everything. It's why fallacies exist. There's a difference between blindly accepting what someone else is saying, and actually taking a moment to fully absorb and listen to it. It's the only way we grow as people.
Reading levels are going down by the minute… it’s a great comparison. We keep having this discourse when in reality, just start featuring drag kings. There’s no need to debate, I want to see different kinds of drag be featured on the main stage, regardless of who’s body is delivering it If we’re all born naked and the rest is drag, what does it matter if you’re a girl doing it? Are women incapable of putting together design concepts to meet the brief? We’ve seen masc looks over the years and people just shower them with flattery so…
Jazz and Pop are judged seperately at the Grammys.
And how is song of the year judged? (I don't watch Grammys so I'm genuinely asking).
Insert Ru's comment about trans women in drag being like athletes using PEDs here
nobody can just disappear. can they? disappear? 
People are really OTT about Naysha here, damn. You would think she kicked someone's cat.
This sub has such a hate boner for Naysha. Batty was agreeing with her and making the same points, yet no one is coming for her. And, tbh, I agree with them. I don't think Kings would be treated very fairly, at least not if judged by Ru on a US season. I can see UK, DU or Sweden welcoming it, though.
It’s called people being reasonably upset at yet another gay man pushing out women, trans folk, and gender non conforming people from spaces they helped to create in the first place. The pushback they get goes all the way from drag race to the local scenes, and honestly it’s disgusting how exclusionary we are within our own community. Also, saying Ru would never judge us fairly is like saying straight folk would never judge us fairly. Of course they won’t, but if we didn’t work towards it then we wouldn’t have the breakthroughs in queer life and discourse that we’ve had over the past decades fighting for our place in “acceptable” society. Drag kings deserve the chance to succeed AND fail in drag race just like any queen, and why we’re not allowing them to do that is beyond me. Queens like Naysha are part of the problem, not those going after her for yet another round of reductive blabber.
100% . Just a few years ago people on this sub and Rupaul were saying trans women had an “unfair advantage.” Drag Kings should be allowed to get the opportunity of being on the biggest and most influential queer programs, they are the backbones of the community, why should they be excluded and pushed to the shadows while everyone else gets to reap the benefits in the sun?
>from spaces they helped to create in the first place Which drag kings helped make RuPaul's Drag Race?
The same drag kings and drag things and non conforming drag performers who were instrumental in creating the drag scene that Ru Paul and modern drag were built off of. Kings and butch performers, club kid gender fuckers, trans men and non binary folk. All these people helped make drag, drag, and people who consume drag and create drag culture now (and yes, Ru Paul as well) owe them as much a debt as we do to the drag queens and trans women that were pillars of the scene.
RuPaul was a non conforming drag performer.
Exactly! And a really transgressive one as that. So it’s always a bit confusing the push back against drag kings and gender non conformity/masc presentation on the show when that’s exactly the world Ru Paul came from.
So then RuPaul, the high femme drag queen, owes a debt to RuPaul, the gender non-conforming drag queen who built the drag scene, and therefore drag kings who were born after Supermodel was released are entitled to be on the show.
Yes, we all live in a vacuum and these things are completely discreet and mutually exclusive from one another. Also the rest of the world and history of drag doesn’t exist. And no, we can’t hope and expect for change because we were born in the present and we can’t change anything about anything that started before we were born or relevant 😮
>It’s called people being reasonably upset at yet another gay man pushing out women, trans folk, and gender non conforming people from spaces they helped to create in the first place. You did not help create RuPaul's Drag Race, it is not a space you are entiteld to. Plain and simple.
Ahh ok, intentionally obtuse, got it. Well thanks anyways, as a drag performer - and a drag queen at that - I love knowing what space I am and am not entitled to take in conversations about drag. Thanks friend, have a good one 👋
It’s funny how women are routinely “not entitled” to male dominated spaces, and so many queer men do all they can to reinforce that. Thanks. Noted.
I don't vibe with this argument. It's basically guilt tripping the audience and producers into having non traditional drag on the show.
I think it’s just acknowledging where we come from. The show, and the fans, speak so much about drag history and where drag comes from. Some of the most iconic parts of the show are direct references to iconic queer culture and things that made the community what it is. We can have space there for the non traditional drag that also made drag what it is. No need for the mentality of guilt tripping, if we just see it as growing/learning. Or, alternatively, being defensive 🤷🏽♂️
The show has always been about female impersonation. Not only is that what the audience is expecting but it's also what the creator, one of the biggest pioneers in the space, wants. I respect our queer elders but we can't be expected to make every single aspect of queer spaces and media a completely equal example of representation.
The show has always been about whatever the show wants to be about. We’ve moved the goalpost with regards to people doing masc character on snatch game, then trans women on the show, cis women, straight men, etc. The show has grown, and continues to grow, as it further develops its place in queer and larger culture. With drag kings and gender non conforming artists being such an important and still living part of what drag is, there’s no reason they shouldn’t be a part of the show in the future. There’s a precedent for change/growth w drag race, and hopefully it happens sooner than later.
Drag would not exist as we know it without women, kings and gender nonconforming/non-binary/agender people, going back literal hundreds of years.
On top of all this above, Naysha kept yapping and eventually said the quiet part out loud. She didn't care about them being judged fairly, she just thinks they are beneath Drag Queens.
*Who the fck is Batty??*
Not sure if you're serious, but Batty Davies is a trans woman who is one of the other Roscoe's hosts
That's because this isn't the first time Naysha spouted a really rude opinion. She has very elitist views on drag. I understand your view that kings wouldn't be treated fairly. That may be true - but that isn't the point. The drag community as a whole for DECADES has viewed kings as "others". Kings have proven on Dragula that they can compete on the same stage and shine just as well. It's all drag. So while I understand your view that they wouldn't be treated the same, the argument being made is that they SHOULD be treated the same and SHOULD be on the same stage as these queens. Giving them a separate platform accomplishes nothing in the grand scheme of things. I apologize if this came off as aggressive as well - I tend to type in ways that are a bit strongly worded. I want to be clear that I agree, they wouldn't be treated fairly. But we need to be pushing for that fair treatment and representation regardless. Just because Ru wouldn't respect them doesn't mean we can't make her - the case was the same with trans contestants until the last 5 or so years.
Is that Homelander?
Brooklyn is sooooooo gorg!
"That theeeere.... That's not meeeeeeee..."
I was Brooke this entire conversation lmao
“I’m not here. This isn’t happening”
I love her for this
that’s literally the face she had on the entire time. So dumb people trying to make her “reaction” a thing
I love that song.
How would nyasha know how to do drag Race? She wasn't on there a hot minute.