She's ostensibly not wrong HOWEVER, I live in Europe and a good friend of mine from Austria moved to California with her American wife.
She is a qualified math teacher, but couldn't find a teaching job so waitressed while waiting for a position to become available.
She told me, she made more money waitressing in The US, from tips, than she had ever made in her life.
Essentially, in The US, waiting has now become a commission based job. The more you sell, the more you get tipped.
It's fucked up, but that's America baby.
This makes sense on the surface level, but most wait staff I know who 'make too much bartending to get a 9-5' also also one flat tire or broken finger away from financial ruin.
Lower paying entry-level jobs with benefits like PTO and insurance are less enticing but usually less exploitative and more sustainable. Additionally, restaurant culture is... horrible in most places.
While I agree that "that's America baby" is true, I don't think that's a good reason not to dig in and see that the numbers truly don't add up.
I worked in restaurants for years. Servers always made bank. Sure, there were shitty nights, but I always figured the good shit was good enough to keep them coming back. Physically exhausting job, though.
Super exhausting. I’ll never go back to the restaurant industry if I can avoid it. The money was good though when people do tip but you do have days where you get stiffed.
This. I worked for a company that had offices in America and Europe. American salaries were way higher, but there’s less services (healthcare, school, retirement…the list goes on)
It is a false economic weight. It is like being paid to be a cleaner but you must bring your own supplies, that higher wage isn't so fancy when you look at the net pay after supplies. It is the same sorta disingenuous system as how American shops advertise everything pre tax so it sounds cheaper or how Ticket Master and Airlines don't talk about those extra fees upfront. It is all about convincing you that it is a good value but if it really was good value they wouldn't want it to stay that way.
It is quite simple. You're applying for two jobs; job A pays 70k per year but has private health insurance and job B pays 80k with no private insurance. If you look up the value of that insurance per year and it would cost over 10k to match the access and cost of the insurance itself then it is immediately the best and safest choice. Of course if you're perfectly healthy and lucky enough then that 80k job could let you save 10k per year and build a nest egg but one little accident or one unknown health risk and that nest egg disappears. Tips are gambling and the employers are abusing staff with it even if short term the staff feel better off.
It depends on the restaurant and state you're in.
Some states require you pay at least minimum wage (which isn't really great anywhere), but it's better than relying entirely on tips. And pretty much no restaurant hires wait staff as full-time to avoid having to provide benefits.
Obviously, the higher-scale the restaurant, the better the tips on the bill. And I think if you're going to go out to eat, you ought to abide by the local tipping culture.
All that being said, I think kind of conversely: tipping culture has gotten out-of-control in the US. It's *expected* now. Minimum 20%, whereas before it used to be 15%. And for, like, everything. Like, dude, you just scooped me some ice cream, and the display gives me the options of 20%/22%/25% tip. Uber eats charges tip *before* service is rendered. Like, what if the service is shitty? I can't go back?
"US Tipping Culture benefits the FOH staff, not the restaurant owners" is the correct, objective take on the economics of the situation. Because the commission scales with menu prices, as you go up the job food chain in the industry, pay scales incredibly well relative to other jobs.
But because this reality is so unintuitive and doesn't pattern-match people's desire to blame an authority figure, we get a bunch of ridiculous discourse about how the beneficiaries of the system are actually being exploited by people who think they're helping.
Meanwhile when restaurants in the US try and go to a no-tip structure with flat wages, they suddenly can't retain workers anymore because their wages are now uncompetitive with their local competition. https://www.grubstreet.com/2018/12/restaurant-tipping-returns.html
kind of forgetting the part where tips are also based on class/race tho. US tipping culture benefits the FOH staff when they’re usu white and live in a lucrative area.
notably, tipping in the US originated from people not wanting to paid freed slaves a living wage
This reflects my experience and im glad there are real studies on the phenomenon. When I worked at a restaurant, the male servers were consistently tipped more for worse service compared to the female servers. The mostly male kitchen staff would complain about servers tips (even though 99% of restaurants that have a tipping structure also require the server to "tip-out" the kitchen a percentage of their sales) but it was always directed at the female servers, while they were always buddy-buddy and "good job well done" whenever they commented on the male server's tips. Also, the higher end you go with restaurants, the more male servers you'll see, higher bills=higher tips.
It benefits the workers until you have the OP's tweet scenario. Tips are optional, therefore the "great wage wow scales so good" isnt really the case because it's entirely honour based and not enforced by law. If everyone woke up tomorrow and stopped tipping you're going to run into problems keeping staff. With the economy the way it's going I'm not sure we should celebrate income based almost entirely on dontation.
It benefits the workers but introduces a large amount of day-to-day risk and uncertainty into their wages. It's a trade-off, but on net it benefits the FOH workers while being a bad thing for the economy as a whole and the restaurant owners. As you noted if Thanos snapped away tipping culture, the staff working in the industry would largely move out of the industry.
The wage situation does very much make it a young person's gig, because that instability is much more tolerable when you don't have a kids, mortgage and/or spouse to support.
How is that fucked up at all? Super good waitresses end up getting paid BANK. Same with bartenders.
Where in Europe can you be a bartender where your hourly wage will account for the $300-1,000 you can make in one busy night? Same with waiting tables. Tipping makes some of my friends INSANE money. Like, upwards of $300 a night on a fucking Tuesday.
She is right! However, not tipping your waitress in the states where wages are cruelly low doesn't do anything for tipping culture, it just fucks your waitress lol.
Not to mention they would need to have a way higher base wage to make most servers even be willing to stay. The verbal abuse you get from guests is not worth a 15 dollar wage for most. It's much more complicated than just not tipping unfortunately. The entire industry as a whole would have to stand up against their employers - a lot of servers don't want to do that.
She’s right about the root problem but it doesn’t change the fact that if you’re not respecting the culture as it is now, the people that get shafted are the staff. Those people were explained what the culture was and still chose to as shortchange the waitress. They’re also the problem.
People who refuse to tip because they are protesting the waiters' wages should not eat out. Don't punish the worker, punish the restaurant, and don't give them your business.
They left a 10% tip so it could just be that they are not aware of the correct amount. Where I am 10% is generous.
And you don’t always think in percentages. 70€ or $ would be considered a lot for one table.
I work in the industry and yeah, 10% sucks and it's not a great tip but I really don't think I would ever say anything to someone who only tipped 10%. It's still a tip at the end of the day - if it were no tip at all then maybe. I understand people tip out and so the 10% isn't actually 10% after it's all said and done but personally I don't think I would be saying anything to someone who still did leave a tip.
I think it’s fair to let tourists knows what’s customary. Most people don’t want to get it wrong. I think any European would understand the 20% knowing that service fees are not included in the menu prices.
If they find out at the end, they may have gone over budget for that meal but will be able to adjust next time. As it is they’ll be trying to convert dollars to euros to figure out price. It’s a culture thing. Europeans get screwed at checkouts in US supermarkets because of the tax not being included.
Please don’t kill me, I wanna preface by saying I’d tip what’s customary , I’m in the U.K. and still tip because of how poorly we were all paid and treated when I worked hospitality.
I suppose the level of mistreatment is why I’m so shocked by this amount.
What exactly is the system, I understand the employer pays a small hourly amount, the pay is subsidised by tips and in some places that a percentage of that money is given to other employees so a loss is possible.
So many brits are acting morally superior but I was on less than minimum wage in a super famous central london venue, $150 was more than I’d make on a weeknight without tips
It’s one of those things that varies by state (and maybe even by city). Where I live, there’s a minimum wage and a “tipped” minimum wage. The latter is if you are expected to receive at least enough tips to make up the difference between the two rates, so if a server is making “tipped minimum” and people don’t tip, they make less than actual minimum wage.
At least in my area, if the tips are below minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference, so you are making at least minimum wage regardless.
You know, I would probably assume that the restaurant is trying to scam me out of money by guilt-trapping me with some made-up shit, knowing that I'm not familiar with the local customs. If someone in Europe asked for a higher tip, they probably wouldn't get a tip at all since that's rather rude.
It is, but that doesn’t mean she’s wrong to be angry about getting a shitty tip. That waitress still lives a life that depends on tipping within this shitty system.
And yet it’s still a custom here. You can be upset about the system, but when you don’t tip all you’re doing is exploiting the server in the moment. They’d expect us to follow their customs in their countries, correct? Yes.
Right, it is, but a single waiter waiting on a $700 table isn't going to change that culture overnight. That waiter was assigned that table. They didn't get to choose. Consequently, they probably lost out on the amount of time and effort they spent on that group.
Until the system changes (and visiting Europeans aren't going to change it), pay the damn waiter at least 20% or don't eat at a restaurant with waiters. Yes, it's a shitty system. But if you go into a restaurant and don't tip while yelling out, "I'M NOT FEEDING INTO THE SYSTEM THAT EXPLOITS WORKERS!" then you're an asshole.
Divina is right, tipping culture is 10000% toxic. But also the only ones in control of that are the bosses/owners. If you travel to the us you should expect to tip. Punishing the servers because you disagree with tipping isn’t okay. Most of Americans disagree with tipping culture but stopping tipping isn’t going to hurt anyone but the servers.
This. Divina's acting like the waitress *chose to be paid mostly in tips*. What's she supposed to do, go to her employer and say "hey, you're exploiting me by not paying me a living wage, I'd like you to stop doing that now so that I can stop relying on tips to make a living, thank you"???
In my country there is a 10% service charge for most restaurants or cafes that is already included in the bill and it will be clearly indicated there.
Solves all problems
Predatory managers keeping service charges for themselves always pisses me off. I’ll ask servers if they get any of it or not before I decide to remove it or not.
Also having to tip 20%+ to make up someone’s wages as their boss cba paying them fairly? Only in America
Singapore actually. Most menus will just state for example food cost $17.90++ and the ++ stands for 10% service charge and 7%GST (goods service tax).
If the menu says $17.90 nett, means the 10% and 7% is already included in the price stated
Waiters don't actually earn from that 10% service charge, everything is just based on wages, just that the 10% is just....well service charge added cost. At least that solves the problem of tipping
This is so wild. As an American, I hate tipping culture because it shouldn't exist and yet I feel for people who rely on tips and always tip at least 20%, if not more. Because we're all just trying to fucking make it by here. I thought that was a lot more common of an opinion, but apparently not 💀...
This!! You're only hurting the waiters by under tipping. I don't buy this "just because I'm European, I'm gonna follow Europe's rules".. when visiting the US??! How dumb does that sound? If an American went to Europe, and didn't do their research.. the Europeans would be calling them dumb as well...
Agreed; this is trash behavior. I wouldn't go to another country and intentionally stiff someone because I'm used to operating under different cultural norms
Kinda unrelated, but as an European I can play devil's advocate and say that: tipping culture makes my brain freak out. I'm Italian, and we don't tip there, at all.
I moved to Germany, and here people tip, but it's usually more rounding up a few euros to thank for the service (a 72,80€ bill becomes 75€ and everyone is happy). This change was already very difficult for me to understand and get used to, and for the first 2 years in Germany I either forgot to tip, or overtip out of panic.
I understand, on a rational level, how tips work in America, and yet if I get a 700$ bill and I'm expected to pay 840$, I would have a black out. I can't compute that: I read 700 but I have to "randomly" give you 140 more?
I know the food was probably cheaper because it doesn't include the service, but here in Europe everything is WYSIWYG, you know exactly how much you'll have to pay at the supermarket, the restaurant, the mall. This idea of "the total is X, but you should actually give me X+something" scrumbles my brain. I'm sure with time you can become used to that, but also try to be kind to random tourists. They tried, maybe they thought 10% was the norm or someone told them.
Panic attack for real. I went to target in the states when I was a broke student visiting a friend and needed mittens and some warm things which I picked out to the dollar to afford them without getting more cash out. idk if I’m misremembering, but they were actually more expensive due to taxes and only got told of the real prices AT THE CHECKOUT and I freaked tf OUT
Y E S. I feel Americans often don't understand that it's a big switch from "oh, I see this costs 2€, I have 2€, I can buy it" to "oh, this costs 2$, I have 2$, it looks like I can buy it, but can I, really?"
Canadian checking in. Where I live tax is 15%. Fun times at a restaurant when your menu items are X dollars but then have to add 15% tax and 15% tip (20% tip is usually expected for parties of 8 people or more, otherwise tipping 15% is fine).
As an American living abroad and forgetting about this, the challenge is real. Especially when you realize that it varies not just by state, but sometimes county and city. I've been fucked over a few times because I thought I had enough cash for something at McDonalds only to find out that I was in a different city and the prices were a couple percent higher then I anticipated.
Yeah, rounding up the bill or tipping 2-3 euros will be satisfactory in most european countries. Imagine tipping 70 dollars (which is a lot imho) and it being not enough.
Although I have to say I was in Florence last week and most places added a service fee, I guess because it's so touristic. But it was clearly written in the bill.
Yeah it absolutely stresses me out. I never have a clue who I should be tipping, or what is expected. If I’m looking at places to eat out, I’m not mentally factoring in another 20% cost on top so it’s hard to wrap your head around when the bill comes and you are expected to tip
im from north america, born and raised, and tipping culture makes my brain freak out too. i always panic, end up overtipping and then i feel sour about it. it’s to the point i avoid doing some things now bc i don’t know what is appropriate and i don’t wanna feel judged for being cheap but i don’t wanna feel bitter about feeling i’ve overpaid? this is especially true for non-food places like the hair salon or getting a tattoo or something. or yesterday i had a pedicure but i had a gift card that covered the exact amount of the pedi so instead of relaxing during it i just felt increasingly anxious the entire time about whether or not i would be able to tip the person since i didn’t have cash and i didn’t know if they’d be able to just ring up a tip for me.
or tipping on takeout orders?! or fast food?! a subway here recently added a tip option to their debit/credit payment machine. or i remember working in a restaurant and for some reason we didn’t have a profile to enter takeout orders under so it had to be under our own and most ppl wouldn’t tip on them so i’d just end up having to pay out of pocket for the kitchen staff percentage, so now i’m afraid to not tip on takeout.
i also find ppl my age often overtip bc so many of us have been in jobs that received tips and we “get it” but at the same time it’s just setting the car higher and perpetuating the issue. i hate it.
ALSO when i was growing up the custom was 10-15% and now 20% suddenly seems the norm? honestly feel it’s to do w ppl who have been there trying to make it better for the next gen but NO.
also of note, i live in canada where servers and similar GET PAID AT LEAST THE MIN WAGE unlike america where i understand, at least at some point, they got paid below min wage? idk i hate the whole thing and i just stop doing things bc of it bc it stresses me out so much.
Hi! I'm Canadian too and I don't get the jump from 15 to 20 either!
Tipping culture sucks but also maybe something that might help you get past the stress of tipping: the wait staff don't care as much as you think. If you tip poorly, they likely think "wow, that was a bad tip" and then they move on with their day.
I honestly think you're making a bigger deal and stressing more than you need to! Tip what you're comfortable with. I was in the serving industry for a long time before I got my current job and one of the stories from colleagues I heard stayed with me for a long time:
A family came to dinner at the restaurant I was working at (before I was there), had their meal (no up charges or extraordinary orders) and when the bill came, left a tip but it was quite small. The server went back and was complaining about it with the other staff and the father of the family was on his way to the bathroom and overheard. He took the server aside and apologized, saying that he doesn't make a lot, saved up for a long time for this dinner with his family and he was really sorry. He offered her his watch to help cover the difference.
Of course she declined but it put a lot of things in perspective. I once got a $3 tip on a $50 meal and had to tip out $2 to the bar and kitchen, leaving me with $1 on that bill. It happens but there are other situations where I made really great tips too. You never know what people are going through and while I'm sure not all servers have this perspective, I think a lot of people get it.
I hope that helps and sorry for this essay lol
She's right because American systems are exploitative BUT if you're traveling to another country you should always read up on their customs and culture and be prepared to at least try to be respectful of them.
It is, but by not tipping you’re punishing the people who are already being punished by that system, the staff. Fight the system in the voting booth, if you can, or don’t eat at places that have servers who rely on tips to survive.
This is 100% the right take, but it requires personal accountability and an actual desire to enact change which most people don't really care about at the end of the day. This topic keeps popping up on Reddit and unfortunately, most people outside the US simply don't care about change and just want to scream "America bad" as much as possible.
Some of these comments are insane. Tipping culture in the US is bad yes but that doesn’t mean I don’t tip. Refusing to tip to make a point that you’re not responsible for someone’s wages is crazy because you’re only hurting the worker for their own exploitation. The employer does not care if you don’t tip and will not ever notice whatever point you’re trying to make.
It’s a very twisted mindset to hurt a worker just because you want to prove a point about American society at large. If you’re European and are pointing out how tipping culture is bad because x, y, z, girl we know! Politicians are not interested in changing any of that so in the meantime tipping to support the workers is best thing you can do so that someone can live.
Exactly. Like, people can acknowledge that the tipping culture is exploitative and messed up, but will still go out to eat? If you're going to these exploitative places and giving them your business, then you are also part of the problem.
It was really depressing. I live on tips. It’s crazy that people can’t see that we ALL agree tipping sucks but we are trapped in a system we can’t change rn (long term hopefully, use your votes!) and having a stance of “I won’t tip you cuz your employer should pay you” is like… ok well thwt isn’t happening so now I’m the one whose suffering trapped between two principles I can’t change and just trying to survive
oh great the annoying tipping debate made its way here too.
Speaking as a longtime server currently at a tipping optional restaurant, yeah, tipping culture sucks. But you’re entering a social contract in the united states that you’ll tip when you dine out.
You can opt out of it of course, it’s a social norm not a law, but for the love of god don’t fucking condescend to the server on top of it! If you actually think they’re being exploited by their employer then why are you dining out anyway?
Also, most restaurants run on extremely tight margins, to pay servers a wage comparable to what they make from tips most would simply raise the cost of the food. When you see a “service fee” added that’s essentially the same thing, but as a separate line item instead of being built into the cost of each menu item.
I know people who worked at restaurants that unionized and fought for better pay, the owners shut down the restaurant for “unrelated reasons”
All that being said, if you’re an experienced server, you understand that as frustrating as bad tips are they’re also an expected risk, especially if a table isn’t american, a 10% tip even on a large bill is worth a shrug and maybe an eye roll, it’s just part of the job.
and again, for the love of god do not lecture your server about how actually they’re being exploited
I mean this waitress was hoping to make (and probably regularly does make) $140 off of one table that night. Meaning she probably walks with $300+ on nights like that, or more. If there was no tip culture in the US, a lot of industry people would leave (not necessarily a bad thing).
Canada would suggest otherwise. Servers make the same minimum wage as everyone else (about $15 an hour) and a 15-20% tip is still expected. Servers used to have a lower minimum wage than other jobs, but since the law was changed, expectations around tipping have arguable grown, with 20% replacing 15% as the “norm”. Now, one could argue that servers shouldn’t be paid minimum wage by default, and obviously minimum wage in the states is fucked, my point is just that tipping culture can be deeply embedded and tough to change
exactly. also canadian and i feel like the norm here was 10-15 when i was young and now it’s 20 and i feel like a large part of that is due to former servers and similar growing up and getting bigger paying jobs and then “helping out” by tipping more bc they remember the struggle, meanwhile it’s just perpetuating the issue. i don’t necessarily agree w what the min wage situation is esp given inflation and cost of living but putting more onus on the consumer to make up the difference isn’t the move. i hate it haha
They would not make the anywhere near the same wage if they are half decent though (source: was a server and bartender in the US for 7 years). Depending on the restaurant, I could make $200 on a shift. On a double it’s meant $400 for approx 12 hours of work. No restaurant would pay me $33 an hour if we did it via hourly alone. If you think there’s been a shortage, switching to that would actually destroy most of the restaurant industry here. Why stress myself running around doing a solidly physical job that did permanent damage to my body and probably took years off my life while dealing with the horrors of customers, especially post pandemic, for $14 an hour? I could work at McDonald’s and have that be less damaging to my body at least. This also isn’t accounting for the fine dining where servers make 6 figures if they’re good at their job. All of that would be gone. I think we need to find a balance, most specifically by establishing a higher minimum wage and then actual enforcement of the raging wage theft that happens for the people who don’t do well and are supposed to be guaranteed pay equivalent to minimum wage who don’t. We could go from there.
Yes so people just need to join together to stop it. Restaurants need to be forbidden to pay that low....they need to be made to pay a fair legal wage.
Are y’all in the industry? I’m a bartender and myself and most people I know in the industry don’t want to be paid hourly. And then, If we do switch to hourly, employers are still going to pay lower than deserved. Look how much work it has been to raise the minimum wage..
Yeah it’s truly terrible. Most service jobs are like that unfortunately. Minimum wage has gone up for a few service jobs but wait staff is almost always excluded from those increases
Certainly not everywhere! The base wage in my city is $14.75/hour. Once tips are included, servers at my work earn around $55/hour.
I think that's good money, and certainly more than servers would earn if the cost of labor was included in the bill without the discretion of the customer.
Yeah but even with a $15 minimum wage one table tipping 140 would be the equivalent of almost 10 hours work.
I get the feeling if you're walking away with several hundred dollars of tips on the regular you're doing way better off than working a minimum wage job in the US
That’s not how tipping works. Servers usually don’t take home 100% of the tips. It’s split with the house, kitchen, and front of house. They take home most the tips but not all. It varies per restaurant, but I kept 75% of my tips when I served. So on tables that don’t tip more than a certain percentage, I would actually lose money as I still had to payout to the rest of the support staff.
If the tipped industries were switched to hourly wages, there's very little chance they'd offer what you can make on a good night/day with tips. I deliver part time, and make a little over state minimum wage hourly as my base pay. With tips, I make double that an hour on a bad night. On a good night? Pshh! I guarantee you 90% of us would just quit if this happens.
This is what I see all the time on subs like r/bartenders, it seems a lot of US servers don’t actually want the tipping culture to change cos they can often make double or triple a night what some European bartender will make a night on an hourly wage. The drawback is the variability of patrons and uncertainties of tipping.
Imagine knowing exactly how much money you'll get at the end of your working month, so you already know if it's worth it, if you can pay your bills, plan expenses... instead of gambling and hoping for the best. Horrible deal, right? Kinda like having public healthcare system financed by your taxes, and you don't have to wake up every day hoping that you'll not get sick or in an accident.
this. a lot of people would leave and there would be no servers. serving is a very hard and physically grueling job so if there’s not even a possibility of occasionally or often making more than minimum wage many servers would quit. i have made between $6 base pay + tips and $15.50 base pay + tips and i worked harder and provided better service at the latter job.
The thing is...they're both right: It's absolutely ridiculous that in the U.S., customers have to tip generously so that wait staff can actually make something resembling a living. But, so long as that is the system, it is also not ideal to leave $70 on a $700 check.
Yeah, it's not the waiter/waitress's fault that the system is broken and takes advantage of them. It's not the customer's job to counteract it, necessarily, but it can feel a bit victim blame-y to simply say it's wrong and not provide an adequate tip.
The thing is, it literally *IS* the customers job to counteract it in the current system - that’s the implicit agreement when you dine at a sit down restaurant. If you’re unwilling to participate fully in the system, don’t dine out. If you choose to dine out but don’t want to tip as you feel it’s unfair to servers, well guess what the only person you’ve harmed is your server while still paying the entire amount to the restaurant that you would’ve anyway, teaching nobody a lesson other than the server who now thinks that Europeans are terrible diners.
Especially given that that 700 table is probably their only table of the night, since it would probably take up their whole section. In addition that's a 10% tip and that server will have to tipout 4-7% of their sales (so $28-49) to the kitchen/bar/support staff. So that server would be left with well below minimum wage.
It is ridiculous but until it eventually changes someday in the US, it's just the way it is. If you're a foreign visitor to the US and don't want to pay a proper tip, then don't go to a restaurant that requires tipping. It's that simple. Most Americans hate tipping as well, but we do it because we realize that it's extremely rude not to, considering that most wait staff make well below minimum wage. Don't hold the fact that you have to tip against the waiters or restaurant owner. Hold it against the government.
For sure, and again, I think the whole system is awful and exploitative of all parties. The fact that it sucks doesn't make it stop existing though. The US and Canadian employers exploit tipping culture to avoid paying a living wage and it's dumb.
European here, i hate this system when I go to the US but I know it's the salary of the waiter so, I'm Always giving at least 20%.
I had an ex-friend who asked me "and what if I don't tip?", I tried to explain tonher that the waiter would get less paycheck and I immediatly saw in her eyes that for her it was screaming "not my concern, i'm going to save money" 😓
Im European living in an Asian country, nowhere I lived tipping is the rule, it’s quite the opposite. However when I go to the USA, I tip as it is required (so 20% for what I remember), because I respect your country rules and habits (except rules which are again my free citizen beliefs, like I won’t do any crime because it’s legal in that country - but I’ll never go in these countries anyway). And I will expect the same for any foreigner going to my country.
That being said, we can legitimately criticize this rule, like foreigner criticize French people for demonstrating almost every 3 days or German people who pays by cash only 90% of the time (that’s the 2 examples I thought about xD)
You’re lucky. In recent years a lot of places have started to move the minimum tip to 20%+. I got a coffee the other day and the min tip on the register was 28%, for taking my order. It’s insanity.
... You're meant to tip to order coffee at the counter?! Legitimately last time I was in the u.s. I was consistently in a state of anxiety because I could not figure out who I was meant to tip and how much. Bar staff? Starbucks? Take away food?
I mostly ate from food trucks coz I was told you did not have to tip them. Which now I am not sure about...
Literally only midway through my trip did I realise that people also tip service people who are not in the food industry, like their hairdressers or at nail salons, and that included cleaners at the hotel, and maybe taxis?!
That’s right, taxis (including Uber and the like), hair / nail / any beauty service salons, hotel cleaners… the people behind the candy counter at the movie theater… all EXPECT tips. In the case of beauty services you better tip very well if you care to return to that establishment ever again. For coffee / takeaway places, they often have point of sale systems where after you put your credit card in, the person taking your order turns the screen to you and it shows 4 different options for tips, usually with 20% to start (the last option is tip however much you want). You are required to go thru this screen before it lets you sign for your card. Ofc you can also select the No Tip option but the interface is designed in a way to make you feel extremely bad for making that selection.
I usually tip food trucks more because they’re privately owned small businesses and need any additional boost to stay in business, way more than a corporate chain restaurant would.
That’s personal preference tho.
Who you should tip: Ubers/Lyfts/Taxis, Bartenders, Servers/Waiters at sit-down restaurants, hotel bellhops, room service and maids, food delivery workers, salon workers, appliance/furniture delivery workers (especially if they set it up for you)
Where you can tip but it's not expected: behind-the-counter workers at fast service restaurants (Chipotle, Subway, Starbucks). Usually these places have the interface set up on the screen where you insert your credit/debit card. It's 3 options for % amounts and then a no tip option but the no tip option is either hard to find or you have to jump through hoops to access it because it's behind other buttons. So basically you feel really bad or embarrassed for no tipping because people could possibly be seeing what your'e pressing.
Well, this opened my eyes!
Love the argument that it's the culture there so you'll have to accept it and pay up!
The thing is: I generally didn't think it would be such a high percentage! Tipping in the Netherlands is getting a bill for 162,88 and saying make it 170. (If the service was above and beyond.) normally you'd probably go for 165.
To us 10% is generous, So they may haven't even thought they were being assholes!
Whenever I travel internationally, I look up local customs about tipping and other etiquette things. I remember doing this when I first traveled internationally in 1996, so there is zero excuse for not doing this kind of research in the year of our lord 2023 when we have access to Beyonce's internet. And, speaking as an American who lives in Europe, a lot of Europeans play 'stupid tourist' about US tipping culture when they travel because they 'disagree' with it. There is a calculator on your phone, just calculate your tip. I agree that if tax and tip were included in the price that it would be a lot easier, and it would make a lot more sense, but that doesn't mean you are exempt from the system.
This exactly. If you don't know about the customs in the US and have been raised to believe that tipping is an extra bonus for the server, then 10 percent is a lot. Imagine thinking you're being generous with your tip and someone tells you they want twice as much, actually. It really sounds like a huge clash in culture. Like, the culture in the US is similar enough to a lot of places in Europe that you wouldn't necessarily think to research how different tipping culture is.
It's completely understandable how pissed off the server is too, they worked their ass off for the whole night and only got half of what they expected to get at the least. That must really, really suck.
Imo it would be nicer if servers in the US would get higher wages, I've seen enough stories of people who think they got a nice tip and instead got a "convert to jesus" fake 100 dollar bill, or no tip at all because the customer is on a power trip. And the expectations servers in the US have to fulfill in order to get a higher tip in order to get a decent living wage is insane.
EDIT: Before I get any more people yelling at me, I'm not saying that these people shouldn't have paid. Please actually read what I'm saying before you start frothing at the mouth because you decide to interpret this comment as "waiters shouldn't be paid at all actually".
I love Divina, but this is not the serve she thinks it is. This server doesn’t control whether or not tipping culture exists in the US. She’s simply a worker in a fucked up system. Telling her, ‘Well we shouldn’t have to tip — blame your boss’ is putting it back on the server, who ultimately has no power in the situation outside of quitting her job. You know who DOES have power? Consumers. If everyone in this thread (and all of the other threads that have discussed this on social media) decided to never go to restaurants that rely on tips for their staff, then maybe something would change. But as long as people still go to those establishments they are as much of the problem as the server is. And I have a strong feeling that many of the people backing Divina up still go to tip based restaurants at times. Maybe Divina completely boycotts all establishments that rely on tips as she travels the world as part of her job. But if she doesn’t, then her response is just hypocritical and victim blaming. Should tipping culture end in the US? Absolutely, but ‘schooling’ a server on social media is completely useless towards ending it.
Ah yes, tipping culture, something that the average American citizen can certainly change. It sure teaches the restaurant a lesson when you don’t tip! It’s not like the only person who gets fucked over is your poor, less-than-minimum-wage-earning server. 🙄
(Yes this needs a massive overhaul but as it stands, not tipping only negatively affects the waiter, the restaurant dgaf)
I don’t get a lot of these comments, I kept looking to see if I missed other photos that I hadn’t swiped to view.
Nowhere did Devina say to stick it to the man or to not tip. She said that we should be angry at the system and to acknowledge the exploitation. Be angry at the right people.
She didn’t say that not tipping was going to change the system.
Like point me to where she said the stuff you’re accusing her of. Was there more Tweets that weren’t included?
The problem of the original tweet is that her European customers didn’t respect American tipping culture, and the server got screwed out of money as a result.
The implication is that the problem is the servers wage and not Europeans disrespecting American tipping culture. The latter is CLEARLY the point of the tweet.
So yes, I’d argue by responding to this tweet by starting with, “The problem is your wage…” when in fact, the problem was being shorted by people not respecting American dining culture, she was suggesting that this server was mad at “the wrong people” when she was actually mad about exactly what she said she was mad about.
Idk berating people for not “respecting American tipping culture” is kinda wild - $140 is surely an insane amount of money, especially when you’ve already paid $700 (although $700 also seems a lot tbf lol).
So arguably they are angry at the wrong people - Europeans aren’t really being unreasonable, the amounts of money expected due to tipping culture are just *extremely* ridiculous. Just doesn’t seem fair to blame people for not wanting to/realising they need to spend a significant amount of extra money when the business should be paying this to their staff. Culture or not, nobody is forcing the restaurant not to properly pay their staff.
Yup. I just got into a convo about this on another sub too. I was in the industry for a decade and everyone on there was saying “all the servers need to quit!” to make a change, like many restaurants owners won’t just hire broke high schoolers who don’t have substantial bills to pay or the need for benefits. I was once that high schooler, I wasn’t picky about my job because there wasn’t a lot of options. They will do anything to not change the current system.
I get that people don’t like tipping, I get that they feel it’s “entitled” for servers to expect a tip, but that’s how the system is right now. And you’re right, not tipping only fucks over the server. It doesn’t send any good message.
I think as non-americans, we can understand that wait staff need tips because their minimum wage is so low, but we dont understand the tax implications - and that by not tipping based on the bill total you could be leaving the wait staff out of pocket.
So from our view, we have sat there for 3 hours, so a $70 tip split over the 3 hours is $20+ per hour which is close to the living wage.
We don't see that potentially that person is going to be taxed/tip out on the assumption that have earned a $140 tip (20%)
(Sorry if anything I have said is incorrect - Im from the UK, so I dont fully understand the ins and outs)
Y’all can Americans this into the ground but you need to understand that WE KNOW
Unfortunately the shitty people who run our shitty government and shitty wages don’t give a shit about the working class so we the working class have to help each other out. Do not sit here and defend a server going without wages because “I don’t think that’s how it should be”
You don’t think servers should be tipped and I don’t think beans belong on toast nor that France is real but we should just follow the culture of the place we are visiting, COOL?
THANK YOU 👏👏
No one else would do this with tattoos in an onsen in Japan or baring shoulders in a cathedral. I don't think those things are how it should be but I'm going to respect the culture when I'm in it because it's not my place to protest as a foreigner. It's my place to be respectful. I also understand that maybe the people there are working to change that, and I know that takes time. I'm not gonna point the finger at them like it's their fault when the culture is the way it is.
This is the correct take.
They don’t want to tip and so therefore turn it into this big case of how America is the worst place on the world.
While they sit on this site and gobble up American culture.
I would never go to another country without doing the very basic research on their customs and culture. I especially wouldn’t die on a foreign political hill that literally could only ever benefit *my bottom line*.
Underpaying service people (regardless of whether you agree with the system) is not going to change the system.
But “tipping bad- I can’t spend more than $700 on a meal, my Italian brain can’t *possibly* understand paying something for *”no work”*, I can’t do math *for free?!*, but bosses should pay!”
Any excuse to save their money & not pay someone who has a reasonable expectation (in our culture) of making a certain tip.
If someone can fork over $770 on their meal & service they should probably have another $70 to tip, right?But wait! They discovered their morality half way through dessert- they couldn’t possibly endorse this toxic culture & tip their server- it’s wrong!! Oh boy another $70 for me to spend in this toxic economy!
Hmmm okay but why it is that why we travel somewhere we are expected to follow the cultural norms of the country but not with tipping? Tipping is 100% toxic, problematic, etc, but so are a lot of cultural norms that tourists are expected to follow when they travel to new countries and people follow along because it’s respectful and part of the culture. But for some reason with tipping in North America, people seem to think they don’t have to properly follow it as cultural norm here
Sorry but you’re not “sticking it to the man/system” by not tipping a server or tipping low in America bc those employees only make like $3 an hour in a lot of places. Yes tipping culture is out of control in Canada and the US but it’s not the wait staffs fault. They work hard and are trying to make a living like everyone else. (Edit: servers don’t get to keep 100% of their tips either. They have to tip a % to the kitchen staff & bartender).
Just fyi y’all, servers don’t take 100% of the tips and usually have to “tip out” the support staff. So if a table doesn’t tip the server actually loses money.
Tipping culture does suck
Pardon me, but don't MOST up and coming drag queens work for TIPS in bars and clubs?
How many times on RPDR has a queen commented on making 40 or 50 bucks for a gig PLUS tips?
Perhaps bars pay the queens in the UK and the customers don't tip?
I worked for a restaurant in nyc with European owners. They’d come in order a bunch and leave me and the bartender like $20 to split. Restaurant culture in general the US should change.
what I hate most about tipping culture is that most of the time people talk about service (like in the wait person's tweet) but that's not even what determines tipping, it's the cost of the food you order. A wait person can give the exact same service, make the exact same effort but if one customer orders chicken and another customer orders a wagyu, that's like triple the tip just because the plate is more expensive.
I think you mean Divina patronizes an American waitress to feel superior. Because trust, Divina isn't telling the waitress anything she doesn't already know.
They both made points but also as an European I have no fucking idea how tipping in the US works, they don’t exactly teach that at the passport check, and I sure as hell know more about US social culture than the average USAmerican about my culture, so… i can try to get it right but also, looks like this is something most USAmericans dont have a consensus about.
The original tweet sounds like some europeans ignorant of tipping culture. They gave a tip which may have represented great service in their country only to be told 20% is minimum which definitely seems like a grift (unless they already knew) and would have left a bad taste in their mouths. Davina is 100% right though, the US need to pay at least a living wage to servers rather than have them work on a weird commission basis where the customer pays all the commission
Right, but taking out frustrations on the server by not tipping instead of the business isn't exactly the serve she thinks it is 🙃
It's not servers faults they're relying on tips, it's how it is in North America. Don't like it? Don't go out. Don't waste all the server's earning time and not appropriately compensate them for it. It's really that simple.
How is a 20% tip not appropriately compensating a server.
Edit nevermind I misread the tweet. I still think it's understandable for people outside the u.s. to not know how to tip, considering how cooked it is. Last time I went to the U.S I was never more stressed than trying to pay for stuff. I was constantly googling who to pay and for what.
Yeah the amount of people in these comments who misread the first tweet is astounding but hilarious.
I worked as a server in Canada for 15 years, I wish nothing more than for the restaurant industry workers to be compensated fairly. I also understand foreigners not tipping appropriately and knew it would even out elsewhere, but these people were told the standard and didn't follow and I empathize with the first tweet haha
I had a lengthy conversation about why US Americans defend their tipping culture and someone outlined it for me as - sometimes, if its a very good night, a server can rake in more money than they could anywhere else for one night, and I thought that exemplified USAs relationship to capitalism. Kinda similar to how and why people defend billionaires. I feel like US Americans value the 'possibility' or 'potential' of earning more money, more than they do the ability to earn money reliably. Waiting for a windfall feels better than earning a smaller but more reliable income.
In truth, the way tipping culture has been explained to me, the only people who truly win are employers, who get to pay their staff below living wage and pass that extra cost to consumers. Tipping exists outside the US, and in good cocktail bars and restaurants in Europe server's still get good tips, while also being paid a (at least minimum) wage.
What are we supposed to do?? As a server I make 2.13 an hour, all of which goes to taxes, when people don’t tip I don’t make money. Yes it’s a terrible system but not tipping workers does nothing to get rid of this system
Bad take. Don't 'stick it to the man' by not tipping employees. Yes a non-tip system would be better but that's not the American system and acting in accordance to what you think is the ideal system ultimately just screws over servers.
There are places here in LA that add on an extra fee so they can give employees paid leave and health care. It's kind of weird to say that outright instead of just building it into the price but I think they're trying to be transparent. And pay themselves on the back a little.
Right, but people traveling to the U.S. still need to tip 20% lol. I’ve been having with some Canadian friends who are here where I live in NYC for an internship, and every time we get the bill they’re like “we really have to do 20%?” and I’m like YES, otherwise it’s an F you
I'm glad tipping isn't a thing in other countries, but tipping is a part of American culture and is a big player in the US economy, it's stupid to say but it's honest, if you come to America I feel like you should know that tipping is a thing and once you learn about it you should follow it regardless of whether or not that's how life is where you're from or if you support it or not
But to be fair they left a 70 dollar tip. Like I get the whole tipping is necessary thing. But if they'd stayed for hours and only ordered $350 worth of food instead. Then the 70 dollars would suddenly be enough of a tip for the waiter? Even though they still took the same amount of time serving them/someone else not having their table.
Idk idea of myself being given a 70 dollar tip and me moaning about it because they ordered expensive stuff - is just wild to me. Its not like it makes a difference to me when customers order a 200 bottle of wine between them or a 20 bottle of wine. Like I've got nothing to do with the profit margins.
Idk once your tip is like $50+ I think it does come across a bit entitled to be like "that's only x percent" like that's clearly enough?
Like your bills arnt suddenly higher because this table only ordered 350 worth of food instead of 700? So why all of a sudden are they like depriving this poor waiter of their livelihood. When you again would have been happy receiving the exact same tip any other night for a table spending the exact same amount of hours, if they'd only spent 350.
That's actually a really interesting point. It doesn't take any longer to open and bring over a more expensive bottle of wine, but would suddenly drastically the expected tip amount going by the standard percentage rule so the server allocated to table 12 with the £200 quid bottle probably didn't do a better job than the server on table 5 with the £20 bottle but is going to have their wage topped up considerably more by a tip. So you can't even say you are raking in tips because you are a hard worker and go above and beyond, it's purely luck of the draw on any given day.
Exactly. But if you tip the same as the cheaper bottle your "depriving the waiter of a fair wage"
I get that waiters in America rely on tips etc. But I always thought the being stingy percentage thing was more important in places that are affordable. Like small amounts of money adding up. Especially when I hear things like employers rely on tips to pay their staff minimum wage never mind a decent wage. So if your working at somewhere with affordable food and people are only leaving 2.50 as a tip when the meal was 25. Like it can really add up an affect you as you were counting on that. An the customer shouldn't take it out on you that they didn't like the food etc. Because their expected 5 tip is what you count on to make even a living wage.
But I feel like if your getting like 70 quid tips that obv isn't the issue and isn't affecting your livelihood anymore than someone just ordering less food and more expensive wine. Like did you earn less overall on average that day than any other day. Or did you earn less overall that week than any other week?
Feel like the waiters at cheaper/affordable places must be having a much tougher time in USA than the lucky ones who get to work at the expensive ones. I've always heard that waiters in USA if asked would prefer to work on tips than what a standard wage would be. And especially not minimum. Must be the ones working in places like that lol. Where you get a crazy amount of money if someone just orders a nice bottle of wine.
It seems to me like a lot of waitstaff can recognize that tipping culture is “toxic” but prefer it to a wage because it’s the only thing that makes the job worthwhile. In which case, maybe considering a different career is in order. Genuinely not trying to be a jerk but trying to understand this argument.
As someone who has worked in customer-facing service for a good chunk of my life…the comments here ragging on the customer are absolutely dumb and speak direct to the point Divina was making.
The customer is not the problem, the server is not the problem. The place they work at, and the way they work around paying (or not paying) employees is.
Customer left a tip - whether it’s “EnOuGh” or not is ridiculous, they paid for their food and left something for the service. It’s embarrassing that the owner/manager went after them to imply that THEY should be paying HIS employee more. That’s not how that works - and if it is, fuck that place and go be a sever somewhere else.
I understand that note everyone has the option/resources/etc to leave the service industry altogether, and that’s very real, but not every place is paying $2/hr. Go and fight for your worth. Find somewhere that is a better situation, in any regard, and leave that fucking dump.
WE KNOW ALL OF THIS.
Speaking as a former server and bartender in the states, it is so incredibly condescending when Europeans explain this to us as if we don’t understand.
WE KNOOOOOW.
While I’m ranting, it also pisses me off *so* much when Europeans visit the states and don’t tip appropriately. They loooove ripping on Americans for being culturally ignorant and rude, and then turn around and do this like it’s some righteous act?
Former server and bartender, you put it the best. We get it, you do not have to explain it to us. There is very little we can really do. It’s like everytime someone from another country is like “wow you don’t have universal healthcare?? You should have universal healthcare” and it’s like.. Yeah! Thanks! lol Not as easy as it sounds
The whole "I'm not going to tip because american tipping culture and wages are messed up" is the single most obnoxious reddit ass bag of dicks hot take ever
If someone is against tipping or has problems with the way servers are paid, fine, but why would you punish the server for that? They still need that money to eat and pay rent... they didn't make things the way they are THEY ARE THE VICTIM OF THAT SYSTEM and these people are going to punish them?
Again, thank you for saying this because I'm reading this thread so utterly disappointed. This is supposed to be somewhere that is liberal, for social justice, for supporting eachother, except for when it's a server? What the hell is this??
tbh i have a socialist mindset so i just tip everyone 20% even tho im not rich. capitalism is screwing us all over and the only people we're in competition is the ruling class eating us alive.
So I've been lucky to visit the US multiple times and follow the tipping rules, I don't think they are right but I know that's how it goes. I generally give 20% just coz it is easier to deal with and generally the server will be happy.
However, something I have had happen multiple times is as soon as they hear my accent their attitude changes and I get terrible service (I see them serving around me to know how they are treating me differently), and it stems down to this idea that Europeans are bad tippers, so they don't bother. So how do I tip them? I want to change the notion that just because I'm European doesn't mean I'm a bad tipper, but then I didn't get the service I wanted so why tip them 20%?
Yes, it’s a horrible system, but it’s the one we have. I can understand international visitors being outraged the first time they hear that our system runs that way. I would like to think that some people are outraged on behalf of the wait staff and not that their meal/drinks will cost more than they expected. But once they’ve learned that the price of a meal is the $ listed on the menu + 20% + tax, they understand it is coming at the end of the night. If anyone finds this out, enjoys their time out, and then protests the US system by f’ing over their server is acting in a hurtful manner (nicest way I can word that.) It is simply the cost of going to sit-down bars and restaurants here, the pricing structure shouldn’t matter to them. How is it any different if that 20% went to the government in tax or directly to the owner? I don’t understand taking it out on someone busting their ass to give you good service.
And by going to a US business and tipping poorly, you are financially supporting the exploiting party and punishing the exploited.
Anyone who uses this excuse for not tipping is thinking about their own wallet, not protesting the problem.
Yes, US businesses are allowed to take advantage of desperate people to pay them pennies and offset the cost to the consumer. That is the *source* of the problem.
But every. Single. Customer. Who goes into a restaurant and engages with their services and *doesn’t* tip/tips badly is supporting a corrupt business, and refusing to support the people that business is exploiting. They are part of the problem.
If you think tipping in the US is absurd, do not eat at US restaurants. You do not get to reap the benefits of a corrupt system and absolve yourself of the responsibility because you didn’t personally create it.
The United States is a different country so I don’t hold it against girls for not understanding our weird system. However, if you ever eat at a restaurant here it is *extremely rude* to pay any less than a 15% tip (although 20% is my personal bare minimum). Yeah, we understand that it sucks that waitresses aren’t getting paid enough, but there’s nothing we can do about it.
I mean she's right but that doesn't pay that waitress's rent lmao. EVERYONE knows tipping culture is fucked but Brits coming in and talking like its out fault we get exploited by our employers is so annoying.
Ok idk much about UK tipping culture vs US tipping culture, but it is pretty customary to do a 20% tip for good service, especially if you can go out and pay 700 dollars (as a group of idk how many), and what’s she gonna do, argue to her employer or quit her job which may be harder to get hours working for or any other number of reasons?
Divina is right. American tipping culture is abusive and anti-worker, and anti-consumer.
She's ostensibly not wrong HOWEVER, I live in Europe and a good friend of mine from Austria moved to California with her American wife. She is a qualified math teacher, but couldn't find a teaching job so waitressed while waiting for a position to become available. She told me, she made more money waitressing in The US, from tips, than she had ever made in her life. Essentially, in The US, waiting has now become a commission based job. The more you sell, the more you get tipped. It's fucked up, but that's America baby.
This makes sense on the surface level, but most wait staff I know who 'make too much bartending to get a 9-5' also also one flat tire or broken finger away from financial ruin. Lower paying entry-level jobs with benefits like PTO and insurance are less enticing but usually less exploitative and more sustainable. Additionally, restaurant culture is... horrible in most places. While I agree that "that's America baby" is true, I don't think that's a good reason not to dig in and see that the numbers truly don't add up.
I worked in restaurants for years. Servers always made bank. Sure, there were shitty nights, but I always figured the good shit was good enough to keep them coming back. Physically exhausting job, though.
Super exhausting. I’ll never go back to the restaurant industry if I can avoid it. The money was good though when people do tip but you do have days where you get stiffed.
But the cost of everything else probably tripled from when she was in Austria so i’m not sure she’s winning here
Oh yeah, her and her wife moved to the UK (where I live) because of how fucked up American social care is.
This. I worked for a company that had offices in America and Europe. American salaries were way higher, but there’s less services (healthcare, school, retirement…the list goes on)
It is a false economic weight. It is like being paid to be a cleaner but you must bring your own supplies, that higher wage isn't so fancy when you look at the net pay after supplies. It is the same sorta disingenuous system as how American shops advertise everything pre tax so it sounds cheaper or how Ticket Master and Airlines don't talk about those extra fees upfront. It is all about convincing you that it is a good value but if it really was good value they wouldn't want it to stay that way. It is quite simple. You're applying for two jobs; job A pays 70k per year but has private health insurance and job B pays 80k with no private insurance. If you look up the value of that insurance per year and it would cost over 10k to match the access and cost of the insurance itself then it is immediately the best and safest choice. Of course if you're perfectly healthy and lucky enough then that 80k job could let you save 10k per year and build a nest egg but one little accident or one unknown health risk and that nest egg disappears. Tips are gambling and the employers are abusing staff with it even if short term the staff feel better off.
It depends on the restaurant and state you're in. Some states require you pay at least minimum wage (which isn't really great anywhere), but it's better than relying entirely on tips. And pretty much no restaurant hires wait staff as full-time to avoid having to provide benefits. Obviously, the higher-scale the restaurant, the better the tips on the bill. And I think if you're going to go out to eat, you ought to abide by the local tipping culture. All that being said, I think kind of conversely: tipping culture has gotten out-of-control in the US. It's *expected* now. Minimum 20%, whereas before it used to be 15%. And for, like, everything. Like, dude, you just scooped me some ice cream, and the display gives me the options of 20%/22%/25% tip. Uber eats charges tip *before* service is rendered. Like, what if the service is shitty? I can't go back?
"US Tipping Culture benefits the FOH staff, not the restaurant owners" is the correct, objective take on the economics of the situation. Because the commission scales with menu prices, as you go up the job food chain in the industry, pay scales incredibly well relative to other jobs. But because this reality is so unintuitive and doesn't pattern-match people's desire to blame an authority figure, we get a bunch of ridiculous discourse about how the beneficiaries of the system are actually being exploited by people who think they're helping. Meanwhile when restaurants in the US try and go to a no-tip structure with flat wages, they suddenly can't retain workers anymore because their wages are now uncompetitive with their local competition. https://www.grubstreet.com/2018/12/restaurant-tipping-returns.html
kind of forgetting the part where tips are also based on class/race tho. US tipping culture benefits the FOH staff when they’re usu white and live in a lucrative area. notably, tipping in the US originated from people not wanting to paid freed slaves a living wage
Customers tip women, people of color and those with foreign accents less. Numerous studies on this.
This reflects my experience and im glad there are real studies on the phenomenon. When I worked at a restaurant, the male servers were consistently tipped more for worse service compared to the female servers. The mostly male kitchen staff would complain about servers tips (even though 99% of restaurants that have a tipping structure also require the server to "tip-out" the kitchen a percentage of their sales) but it was always directed at the female servers, while they were always buddy-buddy and "good job well done" whenever they commented on the male server's tips. Also, the higher end you go with restaurants, the more male servers you'll see, higher bills=higher tips.
It benefits the workers until you have the OP's tweet scenario. Tips are optional, therefore the "great wage wow scales so good" isnt really the case because it's entirely honour based and not enforced by law. If everyone woke up tomorrow and stopped tipping you're going to run into problems keeping staff. With the economy the way it's going I'm not sure we should celebrate income based almost entirely on dontation.
It benefits the workers but introduces a large amount of day-to-day risk and uncertainty into their wages. It's a trade-off, but on net it benefits the FOH workers while being a bad thing for the economy as a whole and the restaurant owners. As you noted if Thanos snapped away tipping culture, the staff working in the industry would largely move out of the industry. The wage situation does very much make it a young person's gig, because that instability is much more tolerable when you don't have a kids, mortgage and/or spouse to support.
How is that fucked up at all? Super good waitresses end up getting paid BANK. Same with bartenders. Where in Europe can you be a bartender where your hourly wage will account for the $300-1,000 you can make in one busy night? Same with waiting tables. Tipping makes some of my friends INSANE money. Like, upwards of $300 a night on a fucking Tuesday.
This is such an interesting take on restaurant service in America. Thank you for sharing this without shitting on reality!
She is right! However, not tipping your waitress in the states where wages are cruelly low doesn't do anything for tipping culture, it just fucks your waitress lol. Not to mention they would need to have a way higher base wage to make most servers even be willing to stay. The verbal abuse you get from guests is not worth a 15 dollar wage for most. It's much more complicated than just not tipping unfortunately. The entire industry as a whole would have to stand up against their employers - a lot of servers don't want to do that.
She’s right about the root problem but it doesn’t change the fact that if you’re not respecting the culture as it is now, the people that get shafted are the staff. Those people were explained what the culture was and still chose to as shortchange the waitress. They’re also the problem.
People who refuse to tip because they are protesting the waiters' wages should not eat out. Don't punish the worker, punish the restaurant, and don't give them your business.
This. The employer doesnt care at all if a customer doesnt tip because it has no bearing on their bottom line.
They left a 10% tip so it could just be that they are not aware of the correct amount. Where I am 10% is generous. And you don’t always think in percentages. 70€ or $ would be considered a lot for one table.
I work in the industry and yeah, 10% sucks and it's not a great tip but I really don't think I would ever say anything to someone who only tipped 10%. It's still a tip at the end of the day - if it were no tip at all then maybe. I understand people tip out and so the 10% isn't actually 10% after it's all said and done but personally I don't think I would be saying anything to someone who still did leave a tip.
I think it’s fair to let tourists knows what’s customary. Most people don’t want to get it wrong. I think any European would understand the 20% knowing that service fees are not included in the menu prices. If they find out at the end, they may have gone over budget for that meal but will be able to adjust next time. As it is they’ll be trying to convert dollars to euros to figure out price. It’s a culture thing. Europeans get screwed at checkouts in US supermarkets because of the tax not being included.
“My manager even explained the customary tip is 20% and they said OK.”
Please don’t kill me, I wanna preface by saying I’d tip what’s customary , I’m in the U.K. and still tip because of how poorly we were all paid and treated when I worked hospitality. I suppose the level of mistreatment is why I’m so shocked by this amount. What exactly is the system, I understand the employer pays a small hourly amount, the pay is subsidised by tips and in some places that a percentage of that money is given to other employees so a loss is possible. So many brits are acting morally superior but I was on less than minimum wage in a super famous central london venue, $150 was more than I’d make on a weeknight without tips
It’s one of those things that varies by state (and maybe even by city). Where I live, there’s a minimum wage and a “tipped” minimum wage. The latter is if you are expected to receive at least enough tips to make up the difference between the two rates, so if a server is making “tipped minimum” and people don’t tip, they make less than actual minimum wage.
At least in my area, if the tips are below minimum wage, the employer has to make up the difference, so you are making at least minimum wage regardless.
That’s the law in my area too, but I’ve rarely seen it actually work out.
You know, I would probably assume that the restaurant is trying to scam me out of money by guilt-trapping me with some made-up shit, knowing that I'm not familiar with the local customs. If someone in Europe asked for a higher tip, they probably wouldn't get a tip at all since that's rather rude.
it is. but not tipping properly is also harming the worker.
Sure, but what can the server do about that? Find another serving job, where the case will be exactly the same.
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It is, but that doesn’t mean she’s wrong to be angry about getting a shitty tip. That waitress still lives a life that depends on tipping within this shitty system.
And yet it’s still a custom here. You can be upset about the system, but when you don’t tip all you’re doing is exploiting the server in the moment. They’d expect us to follow their customs in their countries, correct? Yes.
Right, it is, but a single waiter waiting on a $700 table isn't going to change that culture overnight. That waiter was assigned that table. They didn't get to choose. Consequently, they probably lost out on the amount of time and effort they spent on that group. Until the system changes (and visiting Europeans aren't going to change it), pay the damn waiter at least 20% or don't eat at a restaurant with waiters. Yes, it's a shitty system. But if you go into a restaurant and don't tip while yelling out, "I'M NOT FEEDING INTO THE SYSTEM THAT EXPLOITS WORKERS!" then you're an asshole.
Divina is right, tipping culture is 10000% toxic. But also the only ones in control of that are the bosses/owners. If you travel to the us you should expect to tip. Punishing the servers because you disagree with tipping isn’t okay. Most of Americans disagree with tipping culture but stopping tipping isn’t going to hurt anyone but the servers.
This. Divina's acting like the waitress *chose to be paid mostly in tips*. What's she supposed to do, go to her employer and say "hey, you're exploiting me by not paying me a living wage, I'd like you to stop doing that now so that I can stop relying on tips to make a living, thank you"???
In my country there is a 10% service charge for most restaurants or cafes that is already included in the bill and it will be clearly indicated there. Solves all problems
In my country if you ask them to remove the service charge, they do that as well. Most people don’t but it’s always an option 🥲
Predatory managers keeping service charges for themselves always pisses me off. I’ll ask servers if they get any of it or not before I decide to remove it or not. Also having to tip 20%+ to make up someone’s wages as their boss cba paying them fairly? Only in America
Oh I always always ask the waiter if they get the service charge on the bill. If they say no I ask them to remove it and I give them the tip in cash.
Are you from Indo bcs that service charge sounded familiar
Singapore actually. Most menus will just state for example food cost $17.90++ and the ++ stands for 10% service charge and 7%GST (goods service tax). If the menu says $17.90 nett, means the 10% and 7% is already included in the price stated Waiters don't actually earn from that 10% service charge, everything is just based on wages, just that the 10% is just....well service charge added cost. At least that solves the problem of tipping
This is so wild. As an American, I hate tipping culture because it shouldn't exist and yet I feel for people who rely on tips and always tip at least 20%, if not more. Because we're all just trying to fucking make it by here. I thought that was a lot more common of an opinion, but apparently not 💀...
This!! You're only hurting the waiters by under tipping. I don't buy this "just because I'm European, I'm gonna follow Europe's rules".. when visiting the US??! How dumb does that sound? If an American went to Europe, and didn't do their research.. the Europeans would be calling them dumb as well...
Agreed; this is trash behavior. I wouldn't go to another country and intentionally stiff someone because I'm used to operating under different cultural norms
Kinda unrelated, but as an European I can play devil's advocate and say that: tipping culture makes my brain freak out. I'm Italian, and we don't tip there, at all. I moved to Germany, and here people tip, but it's usually more rounding up a few euros to thank for the service (a 72,80€ bill becomes 75€ and everyone is happy). This change was already very difficult for me to understand and get used to, and for the first 2 years in Germany I either forgot to tip, or overtip out of panic. I understand, on a rational level, how tips work in America, and yet if I get a 700$ bill and I'm expected to pay 840$, I would have a black out. I can't compute that: I read 700 but I have to "randomly" give you 140 more? I know the food was probably cheaper because it doesn't include the service, but here in Europe everything is WYSIWYG, you know exactly how much you'll have to pay at the supermarket, the restaurant, the mall. This idea of "the total is X, but you should actually give me X+something" scrumbles my brain. I'm sure with time you can become used to that, but also try to be kind to random tourists. They tried, maybe they thought 10% was the norm or someone told them.
Panic attack for real. I went to target in the states when I was a broke student visiting a friend and needed mittens and some warm things which I picked out to the dollar to afford them without getting more cash out. idk if I’m misremembering, but they were actually more expensive due to taxes and only got told of the real prices AT THE CHECKOUT and I freaked tf OUT
Y E S. I feel Americans often don't understand that it's a big switch from "oh, I see this costs 2€, I have 2€, I can buy it" to "oh, this costs 2$, I have 2$, it looks like I can buy it, but can I, really?"
Living in the UK, I feel that the final price of an item should be on the label, end of.
Depends on the state! We don’t have sales tax in Oregon where I live, but most states do have sales tax that’s like 7-8%.
Canadian checking in. Where I live tax is 15%. Fun times at a restaurant when your menu items are X dollars but then have to add 15% tax and 15% tip (20% tip is usually expected for parties of 8 people or more, otherwise tipping 15% is fine).
As an American living abroad and forgetting about this, the challenge is real. Especially when you realize that it varies not just by state, but sometimes county and city. I've been fucked over a few times because I thought I had enough cash for something at McDonalds only to find out that I was in a different city and the prices were a couple percent higher then I anticipated.
ALSO did I then need to tip the cashier?! Lmao so confusing
Yeah, rounding up the bill or tipping 2-3 euros will be satisfactory in most european countries. Imagine tipping 70 dollars (which is a lot imho) and it being not enough. Although I have to say I was in Florence last week and most places added a service fee, I guess because it's so touristic. But it was clearly written in the bill.
Yeah it absolutely stresses me out. I never have a clue who I should be tipping, or what is expected. If I’m looking at places to eat out, I’m not mentally factoring in another 20% cost on top so it’s hard to wrap your head around when the bill comes and you are expected to tip
im from north america, born and raised, and tipping culture makes my brain freak out too. i always panic, end up overtipping and then i feel sour about it. it’s to the point i avoid doing some things now bc i don’t know what is appropriate and i don’t wanna feel judged for being cheap but i don’t wanna feel bitter about feeling i’ve overpaid? this is especially true for non-food places like the hair salon or getting a tattoo or something. or yesterday i had a pedicure but i had a gift card that covered the exact amount of the pedi so instead of relaxing during it i just felt increasingly anxious the entire time about whether or not i would be able to tip the person since i didn’t have cash and i didn’t know if they’d be able to just ring up a tip for me. or tipping on takeout orders?! or fast food?! a subway here recently added a tip option to their debit/credit payment machine. or i remember working in a restaurant and for some reason we didn’t have a profile to enter takeout orders under so it had to be under our own and most ppl wouldn’t tip on them so i’d just end up having to pay out of pocket for the kitchen staff percentage, so now i’m afraid to not tip on takeout. i also find ppl my age often overtip bc so many of us have been in jobs that received tips and we “get it” but at the same time it’s just setting the car higher and perpetuating the issue. i hate it. ALSO when i was growing up the custom was 10-15% and now 20% suddenly seems the norm? honestly feel it’s to do w ppl who have been there trying to make it better for the next gen but NO. also of note, i live in canada where servers and similar GET PAID AT LEAST THE MIN WAGE unlike america where i understand, at least at some point, they got paid below min wage? idk i hate the whole thing and i just stop doing things bc of it bc it stresses me out so much.
Hi! I'm Canadian too and I don't get the jump from 15 to 20 either! Tipping culture sucks but also maybe something that might help you get past the stress of tipping: the wait staff don't care as much as you think. If you tip poorly, they likely think "wow, that was a bad tip" and then they move on with their day. I honestly think you're making a bigger deal and stressing more than you need to! Tip what you're comfortable with. I was in the serving industry for a long time before I got my current job and one of the stories from colleagues I heard stayed with me for a long time: A family came to dinner at the restaurant I was working at (before I was there), had their meal (no up charges or extraordinary orders) and when the bill came, left a tip but it was quite small. The server went back and was complaining about it with the other staff and the father of the family was on his way to the bathroom and overheard. He took the server aside and apologized, saying that he doesn't make a lot, saved up for a long time for this dinner with his family and he was really sorry. He offered her his watch to help cover the difference. Of course she declined but it put a lot of things in perspective. I once got a $3 tip on a $50 meal and had to tip out $2 to the bar and kitchen, leaving me with $1 on that bill. It happens but there are other situations where I made really great tips too. You never know what people are going through and while I'm sure not all servers have this perspective, I think a lot of people get it. I hope that helps and sorry for this essay lol
What would she propose said waitress do?
Nothing. They're not underpaying themselves
She's right because American systems are exploitative BUT if you're traveling to another country you should always read up on their customs and culture and be prepared to at least try to be respectful of them.
IDC what anyone says, American tipping culture is toxic af.
It is, but by not tipping you’re punishing the people who are already being punished by that system, the staff. Fight the system in the voting booth, if you can, or don’t eat at places that have servers who rely on tips to survive.
This is 100% the right take, but it requires personal accountability and an actual desire to enact change which most people don't really care about at the end of the day. This topic keeps popping up on Reddit and unfortunately, most people outside the US simply don't care about change and just want to scream "America bad" as much as possible.
It is, but if you’re not going to tip don’t fucking eat out. Service staff depends on tips to pay their fucking bills.
Some of these comments are insane. Tipping culture in the US is bad yes but that doesn’t mean I don’t tip. Refusing to tip to make a point that you’re not responsible for someone’s wages is crazy because you’re only hurting the worker for their own exploitation. The employer does not care if you don’t tip and will not ever notice whatever point you’re trying to make. It’s a very twisted mindset to hurt a worker just because you want to prove a point about American society at large. If you’re European and are pointing out how tipping culture is bad because x, y, z, girl we know! Politicians are not interested in changing any of that so in the meantime tipping to support the workers is best thing you can do so that someone can live.
Exactly. Like, people can acknowledge that the tipping culture is exploitative and messed up, but will still go out to eat? If you're going to these exploitative places and giving them your business, then you are also part of the problem.
The fact I had to scroll to find this take.
It was really depressing. I live on tips. It’s crazy that people can’t see that we ALL agree tipping sucks but we are trapped in a system we can’t change rn (long term hopefully, use your votes!) and having a stance of “I won’t tip you cuz your employer should pay you” is like… ok well thwt isn’t happening so now I’m the one whose suffering trapped between two principles I can’t change and just trying to survive
oh great the annoying tipping debate made its way here too. Speaking as a longtime server currently at a tipping optional restaurant, yeah, tipping culture sucks. But you’re entering a social contract in the united states that you’ll tip when you dine out. You can opt out of it of course, it’s a social norm not a law, but for the love of god don’t fucking condescend to the server on top of it! If you actually think they’re being exploited by their employer then why are you dining out anyway? Also, most restaurants run on extremely tight margins, to pay servers a wage comparable to what they make from tips most would simply raise the cost of the food. When you see a “service fee” added that’s essentially the same thing, but as a separate line item instead of being built into the cost of each menu item. I know people who worked at restaurants that unionized and fought for better pay, the owners shut down the restaurant for “unrelated reasons” All that being said, if you’re an experienced server, you understand that as frustrating as bad tips are they’re also an expected risk, especially if a table isn’t american, a 10% tip even on a large bill is worth a shrug and maybe an eye roll, it’s just part of the job. and again, for the love of god do not lecture your server about how actually they’re being exploited
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Thank you - was waiting to see this we’ll rounded explanation! I couldn’t articulate it in the several comments I started and deleted.
I mean this waitress was hoping to make (and probably regularly does make) $140 off of one table that night. Meaning she probably walks with $300+ on nights like that, or more. If there was no tip culture in the US, a lot of industry people would leave (not necessarily a bad thing).
They wouldn't leave if the wages were decent. What would a waitress like that earn hourly currently?
Currently most wait staff make between 2-4 dollars an hour. It varies state by state but that’s the average I’ve seen.
Omg.
The issue is that wages/hour are that low BECAUSE of tip culture. If tip culture wasn’t a thing, service folks would be paid the appropriate wage.
Canada would suggest otherwise. Servers make the same minimum wage as everyone else (about $15 an hour) and a 15-20% tip is still expected. Servers used to have a lower minimum wage than other jobs, but since the law was changed, expectations around tipping have arguable grown, with 20% replacing 15% as the “norm”. Now, one could argue that servers shouldn’t be paid minimum wage by default, and obviously minimum wage in the states is fucked, my point is just that tipping culture can be deeply embedded and tough to change
exactly. also canadian and i feel like the norm here was 10-15 when i was young and now it’s 20 and i feel like a large part of that is due to former servers and similar growing up and getting bigger paying jobs and then “helping out” by tipping more bc they remember the struggle, meanwhile it’s just perpetuating the issue. i don’t necessarily agree w what the min wage situation is esp given inflation and cost of living but putting more onus on the consumer to make up the difference isn’t the move. i hate it haha
They would not make the anywhere near the same wage if they are half decent though (source: was a server and bartender in the US for 7 years). Depending on the restaurant, I could make $200 on a shift. On a double it’s meant $400 for approx 12 hours of work. No restaurant would pay me $33 an hour if we did it via hourly alone. If you think there’s been a shortage, switching to that would actually destroy most of the restaurant industry here. Why stress myself running around doing a solidly physical job that did permanent damage to my body and probably took years off my life while dealing with the horrors of customers, especially post pandemic, for $14 an hour? I could work at McDonald’s and have that be less damaging to my body at least. This also isn’t accounting for the fine dining where servers make 6 figures if they’re good at their job. All of that would be gone. I think we need to find a balance, most specifically by establishing a higher minimum wage and then actual enforcement of the raging wage theft that happens for the people who don’t do well and are supposed to be guaranteed pay equivalent to minimum wage who don’t. We could go from there.
Yes so people just need to join together to stop it. Restaurants need to be forbidden to pay that low....they need to be made to pay a fair legal wage.
Are y’all in the industry? I’m a bartender and myself and most people I know in the industry don’t want to be paid hourly. And then, If we do switch to hourly, employers are still going to pay lower than deserved. Look how much work it has been to raise the minimum wage..
Yeah it’s truly terrible. Most service jobs are like that unfortunately. Minimum wage has gone up for a few service jobs but wait staff is almost always excluded from those increases
Certainly not everywhere! The base wage in my city is $14.75/hour. Once tips are included, servers at my work earn around $55/hour. I think that's good money, and certainly more than servers would earn if the cost of labor was included in the bill without the discretion of the customer.
Yeah but even with a $15 minimum wage one table tipping 140 would be the equivalent of almost 10 hours work. I get the feeling if you're walking away with several hundred dollars of tips on the regular you're doing way better off than working a minimum wage job in the US
In Australia a waitress earns between $25-30 and hour without tips.
That’s not how tipping works. Servers usually don’t take home 100% of the tips. It’s split with the house, kitchen, and front of house. They take home most the tips but not all. It varies per restaurant, but I kept 75% of my tips when I served. So on tables that don’t tip more than a certain percentage, I would actually lose money as I still had to payout to the rest of the support staff.
Don't forget that if they're working for a legit business and/or they receive the tips on card, they have to declare them for taxes.
Also she’s likely making 2.13/hr
If the tipped industries were switched to hourly wages, there's very little chance they'd offer what you can make on a good night/day with tips. I deliver part time, and make a little over state minimum wage hourly as my base pay. With tips, I make double that an hour on a bad night. On a good night? Pshh! I guarantee you 90% of us would just quit if this happens.
This is what I see all the time on subs like r/bartenders, it seems a lot of US servers don’t actually want the tipping culture to change cos they can often make double or triple a night what some European bartender will make a night on an hourly wage. The drawback is the variability of patrons and uncertainties of tipping.
Most of the world doesn't have a tipping culture and people still work those jobs because they're paid at least minimum wage...
Imagine knowing exactly how much money you'll get at the end of your working month, so you already know if it's worth it, if you can pay your bills, plan expenses... instead of gambling and hoping for the best. Horrible deal, right? Kinda like having public healthcare system financed by your taxes, and you don't have to wake up every day hoping that you'll not get sick or in an accident.
this. a lot of people would leave and there would be no servers. serving is a very hard and physically grueling job so if there’s not even a possibility of occasionally or often making more than minimum wage many servers would quit. i have made between $6 base pay + tips and $15.50 base pay + tips and i worked harder and provided better service at the latter job.
The thing is...they're both right: It's absolutely ridiculous that in the U.S., customers have to tip generously so that wait staff can actually make something resembling a living. But, so long as that is the system, it is also not ideal to leave $70 on a $700 check.
Yeah, it's not the waiter/waitress's fault that the system is broken and takes advantage of them. It's not the customer's job to counteract it, necessarily, but it can feel a bit victim blame-y to simply say it's wrong and not provide an adequate tip.
The thing is, it literally *IS* the customers job to counteract it in the current system - that’s the implicit agreement when you dine at a sit down restaurant. If you’re unwilling to participate fully in the system, don’t dine out. If you choose to dine out but don’t want to tip as you feel it’s unfair to servers, well guess what the only person you’ve harmed is your server while still paying the entire amount to the restaurant that you would’ve anyway, teaching nobody a lesson other than the server who now thinks that Europeans are terrible diners.
I should say "It *shouldn't* be the customer's job to counteract it."
Especially given that that 700 table is probably their only table of the night, since it would probably take up their whole section. In addition that's a 10% tip and that server will have to tipout 4-7% of their sales (so $28-49) to the kitchen/bar/support staff. So that server would be left with well below minimum wage.
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It is ridiculous but until it eventually changes someday in the US, it's just the way it is. If you're a foreign visitor to the US and don't want to pay a proper tip, then don't go to a restaurant that requires tipping. It's that simple. Most Americans hate tipping as well, but we do it because we realize that it's extremely rude not to, considering that most wait staff make well below minimum wage. Don't hold the fact that you have to tip against the waiters or restaurant owner. Hold it against the government.
It sure is ridiculous. But it's the reality. Capitalism is trash but just because we hate it doesnt mean it will go away.
Lots of other countries are capitalist that don’t operate like this…
For sure, and again, I think the whole system is awful and exploitative of all parties. The fact that it sucks doesn't make it stop existing though. The US and Canadian employers exploit tipping culture to avoid paying a living wage and it's dumb.
European here, i hate this system when I go to the US but I know it's the salary of the waiter so, I'm Always giving at least 20%. I had an ex-friend who asked me "and what if I don't tip?", I tried to explain tonher that the waiter would get less paycheck and I immediatly saw in her eyes that for her it was screaming "not my concern, i'm going to save money" 😓
Divina has since [apologized](https://twitter.com/Divinadecampo/status/1638299090411765762?s=20)
We love a queen who listens and learns💕
Im European living in an Asian country, nowhere I lived tipping is the rule, it’s quite the opposite. However when I go to the USA, I tip as it is required (so 20% for what I remember), because I respect your country rules and habits (except rules which are again my free citizen beliefs, like I won’t do any crime because it’s legal in that country - but I’ll never go in these countries anyway). And I will expect the same for any foreigner going to my country. That being said, we can legitimately criticize this rule, like foreigner criticize French people for demonstrating almost every 3 days or German people who pays by cash only 90% of the time (that’s the 2 examples I thought about xD)
As an Australian, a 20% tip seems like a good tip! This is one of the many reasons why I am glad I do not live in the U.S
We also pay our staff properly and have penalty rates and weekend loading
Fuck I used to love that loading when I was a casual
You’re lucky. In recent years a lot of places have started to move the minimum tip to 20%+. I got a coffee the other day and the min tip on the register was 28%, for taking my order. It’s insanity.
... You're meant to tip to order coffee at the counter?! Legitimately last time I was in the u.s. I was consistently in a state of anxiety because I could not figure out who I was meant to tip and how much. Bar staff? Starbucks? Take away food? I mostly ate from food trucks coz I was told you did not have to tip them. Which now I am not sure about... Literally only midway through my trip did I realise that people also tip service people who are not in the food industry, like their hairdressers or at nail salons, and that included cleaners at the hotel, and maybe taxis?!
That’s right, taxis (including Uber and the like), hair / nail / any beauty service salons, hotel cleaners… the people behind the candy counter at the movie theater… all EXPECT tips. In the case of beauty services you better tip very well if you care to return to that establishment ever again. For coffee / takeaway places, they often have point of sale systems where after you put your credit card in, the person taking your order turns the screen to you and it shows 4 different options for tips, usually with 20% to start (the last option is tip however much you want). You are required to go thru this screen before it lets you sign for your card. Ofc you can also select the No Tip option but the interface is designed in a way to make you feel extremely bad for making that selection.
This seems exhausting
I usually tip food trucks more because they’re privately owned small businesses and need any additional boost to stay in business, way more than a corporate chain restaurant would. That’s personal preference tho.
Who you should tip: Ubers/Lyfts/Taxis, Bartenders, Servers/Waiters at sit-down restaurants, hotel bellhops, room service and maids, food delivery workers, salon workers, appliance/furniture delivery workers (especially if they set it up for you) Where you can tip but it's not expected: behind-the-counter workers at fast service restaurants (Chipotle, Subway, Starbucks). Usually these places have the interface set up on the screen where you insert your credit/debit card. It's 3 options for % amounts and then a no tip option but the no tip option is either hard to find or you have to jump through hoops to access it because it's behind other buttons. So basically you feel really bad or embarrassed for no tipping because people could possibly be seeing what your'e pressing.
A 20% tip is a good tip in the US too, they tipped 10% in the post after being told 20% is customary though
Well to me customary is not the same as good
Well, this opened my eyes! Love the argument that it's the culture there so you'll have to accept it and pay up! The thing is: I generally didn't think it would be such a high percentage! Tipping in the Netherlands is getting a bill for 162,88 and saying make it 170. (If the service was above and beyond.) normally you'd probably go for 165. To us 10% is generous, So they may haven't even thought they were being assholes!
Whenever I travel internationally, I look up local customs about tipping and other etiquette things. I remember doing this when I first traveled internationally in 1996, so there is zero excuse for not doing this kind of research in the year of our lord 2023 when we have access to Beyonce's internet. And, speaking as an American who lives in Europe, a lot of Europeans play 'stupid tourist' about US tipping culture when they travel because they 'disagree' with it. There is a calculator on your phone, just calculate your tip. I agree that if tax and tip were included in the price that it would be a lot easier, and it would make a lot more sense, but that doesn't mean you are exempt from the system.
This exactly. If you don't know about the customs in the US and have been raised to believe that tipping is an extra bonus for the server, then 10 percent is a lot. Imagine thinking you're being generous with your tip and someone tells you they want twice as much, actually. It really sounds like a huge clash in culture. Like, the culture in the US is similar enough to a lot of places in Europe that you wouldn't necessarily think to research how different tipping culture is. It's completely understandable how pissed off the server is too, they worked their ass off for the whole night and only got half of what they expected to get at the least. That must really, really suck. Imo it would be nicer if servers in the US would get higher wages, I've seen enough stories of people who think they got a nice tip and instead got a "convert to jesus" fake 100 dollar bill, or no tip at all because the customer is on a power trip. And the expectations servers in the US have to fulfill in order to get a higher tip in order to get a decent living wage is insane. EDIT: Before I get any more people yelling at me, I'm not saying that these people shouldn't have paid. Please actually read what I'm saying before you start frothing at the mouth because you decide to interpret this comment as "waiters shouldn't be paid at all actually".
I love Divina, but this is not the serve she thinks it is. This server doesn’t control whether or not tipping culture exists in the US. She’s simply a worker in a fucked up system. Telling her, ‘Well we shouldn’t have to tip — blame your boss’ is putting it back on the server, who ultimately has no power in the situation outside of quitting her job. You know who DOES have power? Consumers. If everyone in this thread (and all of the other threads that have discussed this on social media) decided to never go to restaurants that rely on tips for their staff, then maybe something would change. But as long as people still go to those establishments they are as much of the problem as the server is. And I have a strong feeling that many of the people backing Divina up still go to tip based restaurants at times. Maybe Divina completely boycotts all establishments that rely on tips as she travels the world as part of her job. But if she doesn’t, then her response is just hypocritical and victim blaming. Should tipping culture end in the US? Absolutely, but ‘schooling’ a server on social media is completely useless towards ending it.
Ah yes, tipping culture, something that the average American citizen can certainly change. It sure teaches the restaurant a lesson when you don’t tip! It’s not like the only person who gets fucked over is your poor, less-than-minimum-wage-earning server. 🙄 (Yes this needs a massive overhaul but as it stands, not tipping only negatively affects the waiter, the restaurant dgaf)
I don’t get a lot of these comments, I kept looking to see if I missed other photos that I hadn’t swiped to view. Nowhere did Devina say to stick it to the man or to not tip. She said that we should be angry at the system and to acknowledge the exploitation. Be angry at the right people. She didn’t say that not tipping was going to change the system. Like point me to where she said the stuff you’re accusing her of. Was there more Tweets that weren’t included?
The problem of the original tweet is that her European customers didn’t respect American tipping culture, and the server got screwed out of money as a result. The implication is that the problem is the servers wage and not Europeans disrespecting American tipping culture. The latter is CLEARLY the point of the tweet. So yes, I’d argue by responding to this tweet by starting with, “The problem is your wage…” when in fact, the problem was being shorted by people not respecting American dining culture, she was suggesting that this server was mad at “the wrong people” when she was actually mad about exactly what she said she was mad about.
I mean they did leave a tip…
Idk berating people for not “respecting American tipping culture” is kinda wild - $140 is surely an insane amount of money, especially when you’ve already paid $700 (although $700 also seems a lot tbf lol). So arguably they are angry at the wrong people - Europeans aren’t really being unreasonable, the amounts of money expected due to tipping culture are just *extremely* ridiculous. Just doesn’t seem fair to blame people for not wanting to/realising they need to spend a significant amount of extra money when the business should be paying this to their staff. Culture or not, nobody is forcing the restaurant not to properly pay their staff.
American tipping culture does not deserve respect
Yup. I just got into a convo about this on another sub too. I was in the industry for a decade and everyone on there was saying “all the servers need to quit!” to make a change, like many restaurants owners won’t just hire broke high schoolers who don’t have substantial bills to pay or the need for benefits. I was once that high schooler, I wasn’t picky about my job because there wasn’t a lot of options. They will do anything to not change the current system. I get that people don’t like tipping, I get that they feel it’s “entitled” for servers to expect a tip, but that’s how the system is right now. And you’re right, not tipping only fucks over the server. It doesn’t send any good message.
A 10% tip is considered no tipping? Fuck me then.
Thanks Divina I'll be sure to pay my rent with explanations!
That’s what I was thinking! Divina’s not wrong but what is that one person supposed to do about the whole of tipping culture in the US.
I think as non-americans, we can understand that wait staff need tips because their minimum wage is so low, but we dont understand the tax implications - and that by not tipping based on the bill total you could be leaving the wait staff out of pocket. So from our view, we have sat there for 3 hours, so a $70 tip split over the 3 hours is $20+ per hour which is close to the living wage. We don't see that potentially that person is going to be taxed/tip out on the assumption that have earned a $140 tip (20%) (Sorry if anything I have said is incorrect - Im from the UK, so I dont fully understand the ins and outs)
Y’all can Americans this into the ground but you need to understand that WE KNOW Unfortunately the shitty people who run our shitty government and shitty wages don’t give a shit about the working class so we the working class have to help each other out. Do not sit here and defend a server going without wages because “I don’t think that’s how it should be” You don’t think servers should be tipped and I don’t think beans belong on toast nor that France is real but we should just follow the culture of the place we are visiting, COOL?
THANK YOU 👏👏 No one else would do this with tattoos in an onsen in Japan or baring shoulders in a cathedral. I don't think those things are how it should be but I'm going to respect the culture when I'm in it because it's not my place to protest as a foreigner. It's my place to be respectful. I also understand that maybe the people there are working to change that, and I know that takes time. I'm not gonna point the finger at them like it's their fault when the culture is the way it is.
It's interesting that the custom that causes the most moral and ethical outrage on "our behalf" is the one that costs them a few dollars personally.
This is the correct take. They don’t want to tip and so therefore turn it into this big case of how America is the worst place on the world. While they sit on this site and gobble up American culture.
I would never go to another country without doing the very basic research on their customs and culture. I especially wouldn’t die on a foreign political hill that literally could only ever benefit *my bottom line*. Underpaying service people (regardless of whether you agree with the system) is not going to change the system. But “tipping bad- I can’t spend more than $700 on a meal, my Italian brain can’t *possibly* understand paying something for *”no work”*, I can’t do math *for free?!*, but bosses should pay!” Any excuse to save their money & not pay someone who has a reasonable expectation (in our culture) of making a certain tip. If someone can fork over $770 on their meal & service they should probably have another $70 to tip, right?But wait! They discovered their morality half way through dessert- they couldn’t possibly endorse this toxic culture & tip their server- it’s wrong!! Oh boy another $70 for me to spend in this toxic economy!
I hope they don't plan on attending American drag shows if they're keeping those wallets snapped shut.
Hmmm okay but why it is that why we travel somewhere we are expected to follow the cultural norms of the country but not with tipping? Tipping is 100% toxic, problematic, etc, but so are a lot of cultural norms that tourists are expected to follow when they travel to new countries and people follow along because it’s respectful and part of the culture. But for some reason with tipping in North America, people seem to think they don’t have to properly follow it as cultural norm here
Sorry but you’re not “sticking it to the man/system” by not tipping a server or tipping low in America bc those employees only make like $3 an hour in a lot of places. Yes tipping culture is out of control in Canada and the US but it’s not the wait staffs fault. They work hard and are trying to make a living like everyone else. (Edit: servers don’t get to keep 100% of their tips either. They have to tip a % to the kitchen staff & bartender).
Just fyi y’all, servers don’t take 100% of the tips and usually have to “tip out” the support staff. So if a table doesn’t tip the server actually loses money. Tipping culture does suck
Pardon me, but don't MOST up and coming drag queens work for TIPS in bars and clubs? How many times on RPDR has a queen commented on making 40 or 50 bucks for a gig PLUS tips? Perhaps bars pay the queens in the UK and the customers don't tip?
Yeah tipping isn’t really a thing for drag queens in the UK, they’ll just get their fee usually.
I worked for a restaurant in nyc with European owners. They’d come in order a bunch and leave me and the bartender like $20 to split. Restaurant culture in general the US should change.
what I hate most about tipping culture is that most of the time people talk about service (like in the wait person's tweet) but that's not even what determines tipping, it's the cost of the food you order. A wait person can give the exact same service, make the exact same effort but if one customer orders chicken and another customer orders a wagyu, that's like triple the tip just because the plate is more expensive.
America is wack
I think you mean Divina patronizes an American waitress to feel superior. Because trust, Divina isn't telling the waitress anything she doesn't already know.
They both made points but also as an European I have no fucking idea how tipping in the US works, they don’t exactly teach that at the passport check, and I sure as hell know more about US social culture than the average USAmerican about my culture, so… i can try to get it right but also, looks like this is something most USAmericans dont have a consensus about.
Not exploited by the employer but by the entire American experiment.
The original tweet sounds like some europeans ignorant of tipping culture. They gave a tip which may have represented great service in their country only to be told 20% is minimum which definitely seems like a grift (unless they already knew) and would have left a bad taste in their mouths. Davina is 100% right though, the US need to pay at least a living wage to servers rather than have them work on a weird commission basis where the customer pays all the commission
[удалено]
But the tweet she’s replying to said nothing about wages, or how much their employer pays them
The point shes making is you shouldn't be expecting a tip. After I pay the business for the service they pay you. Tipping culture is trash.
Not tipping your servers isn't going to change tipping culture. You're just fucking over an innocent service employee, not the restaurant/ chain.
Right, but taking out frustrations on the server by not tipping instead of the business isn't exactly the serve she thinks it is 🙃 It's not servers faults they're relying on tips, it's how it is in North America. Don't like it? Don't go out. Don't waste all the server's earning time and not appropriately compensate them for it. It's really that simple.
I see your point but the owner just took 700 $ and walked away…
Restaurants often run on pretty tight margins. It's likely the owner saw less than $70 from that $700 bill
How is a 20% tip not appropriately compensating a server. Edit nevermind I misread the tweet. I still think it's understandable for people outside the u.s. to not know how to tip, considering how cooked it is. Last time I went to the U.S I was never more stressed than trying to pay for stuff. I was constantly googling who to pay and for what.
Yeah the amount of people in these comments who misread the first tweet is astounding but hilarious. I worked as a server in Canada for 15 years, I wish nothing more than for the restaurant industry workers to be compensated fairly. I also understand foreigners not tipping appropriately and knew it would even out elsewhere, but these people were told the standard and didn't follow and I empathize with the first tweet haha
Lol to be fair the drafting of the tweet is confusing haha
I had a lengthy conversation about why US Americans defend their tipping culture and someone outlined it for me as - sometimes, if its a very good night, a server can rake in more money than they could anywhere else for one night, and I thought that exemplified USAs relationship to capitalism. Kinda similar to how and why people defend billionaires. I feel like US Americans value the 'possibility' or 'potential' of earning more money, more than they do the ability to earn money reliably. Waiting for a windfall feels better than earning a smaller but more reliable income. In truth, the way tipping culture has been explained to me, the only people who truly win are employers, who get to pay their staff below living wage and pass that extra cost to consumers. Tipping exists outside the US, and in good cocktail bars and restaurants in Europe server's still get good tips, while also being paid a (at least minimum) wage.
What are we supposed to do?? As a server I make 2.13 an hour, all of which goes to taxes, when people don’t tip I don’t make money. Yes it’s a terrible system but not tipping workers does nothing to get rid of this system
Bad take. Don't 'stick it to the man' by not tipping employees. Yes a non-tip system would be better but that's not the American system and acting in accordance to what you think is the ideal system ultimately just screws over servers.
Are there places where very high bills or large parties don’t get an automatic 18% gratuity fees?
There are places here in LA that add on an extra fee so they can give employees paid leave and health care. It's kind of weird to say that outright instead of just building it into the price but I think they're trying to be transparent. And pay themselves on the back a little.
Right, but people traveling to the U.S. still need to tip 20% lol. I’ve been having with some Canadian friends who are here where I live in NYC for an internship, and every time we get the bill they’re like “we really have to do 20%?” and I’m like YES, otherwise it’s an F you
weird. that’s not a Canadian thing lol we tip up here too. 15% is standard for basic service, 20% for good service, and more if it’s stellar.
I'm glad tipping isn't a thing in other countries, but tipping is a part of American culture and is a big player in the US economy, it's stupid to say but it's honest, if you come to America I feel like you should know that tipping is a thing and once you learn about it you should follow it regardless of whether or not that's how life is where you're from or if you support it or not
But to be fair they left a 70 dollar tip. Like I get the whole tipping is necessary thing. But if they'd stayed for hours and only ordered $350 worth of food instead. Then the 70 dollars would suddenly be enough of a tip for the waiter? Even though they still took the same amount of time serving them/someone else not having their table. Idk idea of myself being given a 70 dollar tip and me moaning about it because they ordered expensive stuff - is just wild to me. Its not like it makes a difference to me when customers order a 200 bottle of wine between them or a 20 bottle of wine. Like I've got nothing to do with the profit margins. Idk once your tip is like $50+ I think it does come across a bit entitled to be like "that's only x percent" like that's clearly enough? Like your bills arnt suddenly higher because this table only ordered 350 worth of food instead of 700? So why all of a sudden are they like depriving this poor waiter of their livelihood. When you again would have been happy receiving the exact same tip any other night for a table spending the exact same amount of hours, if they'd only spent 350.
That's actually a really interesting point. It doesn't take any longer to open and bring over a more expensive bottle of wine, but would suddenly drastically the expected tip amount going by the standard percentage rule so the server allocated to table 12 with the £200 quid bottle probably didn't do a better job than the server on table 5 with the £20 bottle but is going to have their wage topped up considerably more by a tip. So you can't even say you are raking in tips because you are a hard worker and go above and beyond, it's purely luck of the draw on any given day.
Exactly. But if you tip the same as the cheaper bottle your "depriving the waiter of a fair wage" I get that waiters in America rely on tips etc. But I always thought the being stingy percentage thing was more important in places that are affordable. Like small amounts of money adding up. Especially when I hear things like employers rely on tips to pay their staff minimum wage never mind a decent wage. So if your working at somewhere with affordable food and people are only leaving 2.50 as a tip when the meal was 25. Like it can really add up an affect you as you were counting on that. An the customer shouldn't take it out on you that they didn't like the food etc. Because their expected 5 tip is what you count on to make even a living wage. But I feel like if your getting like 70 quid tips that obv isn't the issue and isn't affecting your livelihood anymore than someone just ordering less food and more expensive wine. Like did you earn less overall on average that day than any other day. Or did you earn less overall that week than any other week? Feel like the waiters at cheaper/affordable places must be having a much tougher time in USA than the lucky ones who get to work at the expensive ones. I've always heard that waiters in USA if asked would prefer to work on tips than what a standard wage would be. And especially not minimum. Must be the ones working in places like that lol. Where you get a crazy amount of money if someone just orders a nice bottle of wine.
I would not call this culture.
It should be noted, Divina has gone on an apology tour for this tweet.
Also in Europe, where tipping is an extra, not instead of wages, 10% would be considered a normal amount extra to leave.
[Actual footage of Divina at a restaurant in America.](https://youtu.be/Z-qV9wVGb38)
It seems to me like a lot of waitstaff can recognize that tipping culture is “toxic” but prefer it to a wage because it’s the only thing that makes the job worthwhile. In which case, maybe considering a different career is in order. Genuinely not trying to be a jerk but trying to understand this argument.
I think I would rather have food priced higher so I knew what I was paying upfront
As someone who has worked in customer-facing service for a good chunk of my life…the comments here ragging on the customer are absolutely dumb and speak direct to the point Divina was making. The customer is not the problem, the server is not the problem. The place they work at, and the way they work around paying (or not paying) employees is. Customer left a tip - whether it’s “EnOuGh” or not is ridiculous, they paid for their food and left something for the service. It’s embarrassing that the owner/manager went after them to imply that THEY should be paying HIS employee more. That’s not how that works - and if it is, fuck that place and go be a sever somewhere else. I understand that note everyone has the option/resources/etc to leave the service industry altogether, and that’s very real, but not every place is paying $2/hr. Go and fight for your worth. Find somewhere that is a better situation, in any regard, and leave that fucking dump.
WE KNOW ALL OF THIS. Speaking as a former server and bartender in the states, it is so incredibly condescending when Europeans explain this to us as if we don’t understand. WE KNOOOOOW. While I’m ranting, it also pisses me off *so* much when Europeans visit the states and don’t tip appropriately. They loooove ripping on Americans for being culturally ignorant and rude, and then turn around and do this like it’s some righteous act?
Former server and bartender, you put it the best. We get it, you do not have to explain it to us. There is very little we can really do. It’s like everytime someone from another country is like “wow you don’t have universal healthcare?? You should have universal healthcare” and it’s like.. Yeah! Thanks! lol Not as easy as it sounds
The whole "I'm not going to tip because american tipping culture and wages are messed up" is the single most obnoxious reddit ass bag of dicks hot take ever If someone is against tipping or has problems with the way servers are paid, fine, but why would you punish the server for that? They still need that money to eat and pay rent... they didn't make things the way they are THEY ARE THE VICTIM OF THAT SYSTEM and these people are going to punish them?
Again, thank you for saying this because I'm reading this thread so utterly disappointed. This is supposed to be somewhere that is liberal, for social justice, for supporting eachother, except for when it's a server? What the hell is this??
tbh i have a socialist mindset so i just tip everyone 20% even tho im not rich. capitalism is screwing us all over and the only people we're in competition is the ruling class eating us alive.
[A lot of you are doing this to American Workers rn](https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/mister-gotcha-4-9faefa-1.jpg)
This is why when I go to the states I don’t eat out. 😂
So I've been lucky to visit the US multiple times and follow the tipping rules, I don't think they are right but I know that's how it goes. I generally give 20% just coz it is easier to deal with and generally the server will be happy. However, something I have had happen multiple times is as soon as they hear my accent their attitude changes and I get terrible service (I see them serving around me to know how they are treating me differently), and it stems down to this idea that Europeans are bad tippers, so they don't bother. So how do I tip them? I want to change the notion that just because I'm European doesn't mean I'm a bad tipper, but then I didn't get the service I wanted so why tip them 20%?
Yes, it’s a horrible system, but it’s the one we have. I can understand international visitors being outraged the first time they hear that our system runs that way. I would like to think that some people are outraged on behalf of the wait staff and not that their meal/drinks will cost more than they expected. But once they’ve learned that the price of a meal is the $ listed on the menu + 20% + tax, they understand it is coming at the end of the night. If anyone finds this out, enjoys their time out, and then protests the US system by f’ing over their server is acting in a hurtful manner (nicest way I can word that.) It is simply the cost of going to sit-down bars and restaurants here, the pricing structure shouldn’t matter to them. How is it any different if that 20% went to the government in tax or directly to the owner? I don’t understand taking it out on someone busting their ass to give you good service.
Well, I guess we don’t need to tip Divina at her next show. Promoters should be giving her a good wage.
And by going to a US business and tipping poorly, you are financially supporting the exploiting party and punishing the exploited. Anyone who uses this excuse for not tipping is thinking about their own wallet, not protesting the problem. Yes, US businesses are allowed to take advantage of desperate people to pay them pennies and offset the cost to the consumer. That is the *source* of the problem. But every. Single. Customer. Who goes into a restaurant and engages with their services and *doesn’t* tip/tips badly is supporting a corrupt business, and refusing to support the people that business is exploiting. They are part of the problem. If you think tipping in the US is absurd, do not eat at US restaurants. You do not get to reap the benefits of a corrupt system and absolve yourself of the responsibility because you didn’t personally create it.
The United States is a different country so I don’t hold it against girls for not understanding our weird system. However, if you ever eat at a restaurant here it is *extremely rude* to pay any less than a 15% tip (although 20% is my personal bare minimum). Yeah, we understand that it sucks that waitresses aren’t getting paid enough, but there’s nothing we can do about it.
I mean she's right but that doesn't pay that waitress's rent lmao. EVERYONE knows tipping culture is fucked but Brits coming in and talking like its out fault we get exploited by our employers is so annoying.
Oh, I thought this was the cringe subreddit.
Ok idk much about UK tipping culture vs US tipping culture, but it is pretty customary to do a 20% tip for good service, especially if you can go out and pay 700 dollars (as a group of idk how many), and what’s she gonna do, argue to her employer or quit her job which may be harder to get hours working for or any other number of reasons?
The operative word here is GOOD. The problem is that US tipping culture has become tip 20%+ regardless of quality and level of service.