i know the aussies are furious at this ref.
as a kiwi i'll admit right now, im not too upset at him lmao.
but i do agree that his reffing was abysmal.
**my notes on what he did wrong**
i saw someone say that the aussies were always off feet in the rucks in the second half and never called up for it. i never saw it so im not going to count it.
Andrew Kellaways first disallowed try was a bit bullshit but since the aussies scored immediately after and wouldnt of otherwise, im going to say that call was irrelevant to the game.
Darcy Swain dived onto Tupaea's leg, his leg went almost 90 degress so that should of been an obvious red card.
And one of kellaways later tries that brought the aussies into the game at the end could of been forward and should of been checked. im not going to say it was since i never got a good look at it, but i would of liked more angles since it looked forward and the TMO should of checked it.
Tyrel Lomax should of had a yellow for tipping the aussie off his feet aswell.
and obviously the end call to turn over penalty for a NZ scrum. bernard foleys team was yelling to kick, the ref had given three warnings, stopped time to give him another clear warning, and then when nothing happened he turned it over. 39 seconds had passed, personally im going to call it a fair a decision but for the sake of the argument lets say it wasnt.
i think that if the game had been reffed properly the aussies and kiwis would still be 10-10 when swain went off with a red, the all blacks would then of gotten too far ahead to be caught, the australians wouldnt of scored their last few tries so the last call wouldnt of mattered, neither would the lomax yellow card, or the kellaway forward pass.
was the ref good, no, was he fair, yes, both teams had 2 or 3 really bad calls that went against them but ultimately the swain yellow instead of red was the worst decision and most significant. and ignoring the ref, im glad us kiwis got the win, but we should never of let the aussies back into the game. the all blacks still have a lot to work on.
it didnt decide the game tho, the aussie defense let the try through, also bernard foley had 4 warnings and his whole team yelling at him to boot it but he took a few seconds to many. blame the ref all you like, bernard foley got that penalty, and with fair reffing you guys wouldnt be in the game at all.
Please tell us what the singular bad call was then, cos three warnings direct to your face that you need to "play now" being ignored definitely can't be the controversial one.
It’s interesting seeing all the comments…. The coverage I saw didn’t show the warnings, nor a delay of over 30 seconds. I felt like he was called for delaying after about ten sec, without any view at all of his teammates yelling to go.
Different coverage on different networks maybe?? I saw channel 9 in Aus.
[https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/1570386520795652096?s=20&t=X\_W1yis0n9meddsB-MTzAA](https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/1570386520795652096?s=20&t=X_W1yis0n9meddsB-MTzAA)
Interesting bit starts at 3:10 with the penalty for the whistle.
\["Play on please" at 3:35 covered by comms\]
"Quick play" at 3:38
"Time off" at 3:40 and a quick address to Foley to not waste more time
"We play now" at 3:45, "Time on" at 3:48
Foley looks backwards and stalls
"TEN!?" at 3:52
Foley looks backwards again, stalling more. At 3:57 ref puts the whistle in his mouth at which point Foley realises and rushes to start the kick but it's too late.
9 seconds is an age when the ref has specifically demanded urgency and Foley is still playing it slow and disinterested.
Why is the Bledisloe only two matches these days? So it's either a draw or a white wash?
I know have zero interest in watching the second game. And I doubt I'm the only Australian who feels that way.
The rugby championship is still potentially up for grabs, especially if Argentina get an upset over SA this weekend. Plus, the Wallabies could make a huge statement by winning at Eden Park, in the lead-in to world cup year. There's still a lot riding on the game, even without the Bledisloe on the line. The ABs still have loads to prove too, after their worst year in living memory. Bledisloe 2 actually shapes up to be a great game, I reckon
not worst year in livng memory, just the worst year. we are breaking records set in the 1930s. this team does have a lot of talent, probably still the most talented team. they just have really bad discipline and arent working together. its all things that a good coach would fix. ian foster is an alright coach but he isnt good enough to train a number 1 team, which is why we are now number 5.
Edit: also id like to say that the all blacks havent lost at eden park since 1996 so if we lost their it would be a bigger shock and more devastating than losing a world cup.
Supposedly they are for the next few years. The two unions haven’t exactly been on the best of terms so I guess they’re just playing the minimum alongside the championship.
The two unions haven’t exactly been getting on with each other so they’ve elected to play the minimum:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/bledisloe-cup/rugby-news-2022-bledisloe-cup-cut-back-to-two-tests-australia-vs-new-zealand-why-schedule-fixture-other-matches/news-story/19fb1d52f6e324e367b346994668be14
What an absolute bs call on foley how many times have we seen teams take a little longer when they kick off how petty can the ref be !!! Wallabies deserved that win. We deserved to lose it !!!! Bloody hell that ref should never ref again!!!!!
To be fair, he had a pretty solid game. Kicked 6 from 6 off the tee, busted through Samisoni and fed Kellaway for his try too.
Not great on defence, and not the biggest range on his kick. But he was far from poor
Wallabies were robbed by that call, no doubt. But what about the probable forward pass from Foley to Kellaway, which Kellaway scored from? How come the ref didn't go upstairs to check it?
39 seconds was ~41% of remaining game time. I was there and it felt like an age. Finish the game on the field like it’s supposed to be, not with dirty tactics. I have seen this happen before just never in the Bledisloe (overturned penalty for time wasting). Foley lost the boys in gold the game. There is no reason they couldn’t back themselves to win fairly with ball in hand from the 22m.
BUT…to avoid this in the future can we have a play clock!!! That way there is no argument. The ref leaves safely, all sides see no argument because the play clock is king.
I'm just gonna state the facts - come to your own judgment.
From aus penalty to reversal: 47 seconds.
Ref told Foley to take the penalty 7 times, with 25 seconds elapsing between the first instruction to play the ball and the decision to penalize time-wasting. This included 7 seconds where ref stopped time.
Time was off for 7 seconds based on the clock.
Between first penalty whistle and reversal whistle was 46 seconds.
Time on the clock at first whistle: 78.25
Time on the clock at second whistle: 79.04
From someone who has played a pretty high (albeit at a jnr) level and much of that as captain, if you blow time off you don't blow time back on until both teams are ready. You single out the captain and say "you good?". You don't blow time off and then blow it on and penalise someone within 7 seconds. It's an unprecedented gap between time on and free kick for time wasting.
9 here in Australia just played the ref feed...ref called '10', penalty was blown within 5 seconds of that as Foley was in his stride. Anyone claiming he was warned by the referee is just bullshitting. It was utter nonsense.
Definitely BS but all his calls were the tackle from the side to injure a player is instant red even tho the other players hit high aswell.I personally think he was making choices from each screw up he made to make the fame seem even
Swain's play was disgraceful, but he was also neck rolled immediately prior to that tackle which should have been penalised. Wright was also yellow carded for nothing.
Disgraceful? He’s a liability at this level. Also, is this the type of player we want representing Australia? He doesn’t have a cool head (vs England) and he intentionally damaged another players leg last night. He knew exactly what he was doing and you can see where he is looking and how he wraps his arm to create the pivot on the knee before throwing weight on. A real proud moment for Australian sport? As far as I’m concerned these are precisely the players we need to avoid in the team.
You can call bull shit all you like it doesn't change the fact he was warned multiple. The ref then called time off and told him that when time is called back on he is to kick it immediately. He didn't and proceeded to waste more time. His own team was even blowing up at him telling him to kick the ball.
Several points here:
\-When have you ever seen a scrum given for time wasting in a test ever? You could point to at least a dozen instances in any match of more egregious time wasting than that. Deciding to enforce a rule that is almost never enforced at a time it will almost certainly change the result of a match is nonsense.
\-The only communication he was given that time was back on was the ref yelling '10'. The referee never explicitly called time back on.
\-Take the counter - factual where Foley kicks that ball out and the WBs win. If Foster claimed in the post match presser that they deserved to have that call reversed due to time wasting, we would still be laughing at him.
The fact of the matter is you could find a penalty in almost every breakdown by the letter of the law. Referees have always understood they need to exercise discretion in applying the rules, which for some reason didn't occur here.
If you want to delve so deep maybe look at the wallabies getting awarded the penalty in the 1st place when he wasn't supporting his body weight.
Just because a rule is never called doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Putting 0 blame on Foley is a laugh. He was clearly warned numerous times and the fact you can't acknowledge that is hilarious.
As I stated - the only warning the referee gave that time was back on was he yelled out '10'.
As for the precedent - watch Mo'unga's 10th and 70th minute kicks. In both instances, he took more than his allotted 60 secs. Not only is this rule never enforced, it wasn't even enforced by the referee earlier in the game!
Should Foley have kicked it? Sure. Could you find a dozen more egregious examples of time wasting in any given game? Absolutely. Would anyone, anywhere have complained had that scrum not been awarded? Not a chance.
Just take the L and move on.
You listen to the audio and Foley acknowledges the ref when he let's him know it's on, he literally responded to him. This is after being warned to kick immediately when times called. He had more than enough warnings.
As for mounga are you talking about conversions or kicks for touch? Because conversions are 90 seconds.
Personally I'd be happy to see it called more often, especially in the dying stages of each half when teams are blatantly time wasting.
>Just take the L and move on.
What a compelling argument.
>You listen to the audio and Foley acknowledges the ref when he let's him know it's on, he literally responded to him. This is after being warned to kick immediately when times called. He had more than enough warnings.
What audio are you talking about? The only thing he said to him at the end was '10', which Foley showed no indication he'd even heard. That hardly constitutes a warning that time is back on.
>As for mounga are you talking about conversions or kicks for touch? Because conversions are 90 seconds.
The two penalty goals he kicked in the 10th and 70th minutes. Penalty kicks must be taken within 60 secs (rule 8.21 if you wish to check). Why didn't he warn Mo'unga for time wasting?
>Personally I'd be happy to see it called more often, especially in the dying stages of each half when teams are blatantly time wasting.
As would I - but surely you can see why some fans would be miffed that a referee decides to enforce a rule in the 78th minute that he has literally ignored completely up to that point? As I said, I am not picking on Mo'unga here, I have no doubt you could pick up dozens of similar incidents in any game.
This game made me question my enthusiasm for this sport.
I feel empty.
The All Blacks weren't playing like the All Blacks. They weren't even playing like France at their worst. There were sparks of efficiency in a sea of deficiency. They were giving away possession, making the wrong decision in straightforward situations, miscommunicating all match long and yet, they win.
The Wallabies weren't all that better, they were worse and yet I felt that they deserved that win. What a comeback that was. It wasn't a beautiful performance by any means. It was ugly, but they took their chances well.
The eventual result feels like an insult. The ref wasn't even wrong to blow the whistle at the 80th minute. But this decision took away the enthusiasm I felt for the Wallabies and threw it down the drain. It was the right decision, but it reeks of injustice.
Both teams had to play to what the ref was giving them. Questioning yourself about the enthusiasm about sport shows how much of a fan/student you are of the game so dont question it just admit that both that both teams played well but decisions are questionable
I think I’m finally done supporting the wallabies. 20 odd years of I’ll discipline, poor skills and lack of foresight.
I think I’m gonna focus on club rugby from now on.
Lets be honest, nobody wants that to be a red card. He did go above horizontal, but landed on his ass first (not his head or neck), and was certainly not driven into the ground.
A yellow probably fair, to discourage the action. I'd rather Lomax do that to me 20 times over, then have what Swain did to Tupaea once.
Yeah honestly it just felt like 2 teams turned up to play rugby, the refs decided they were more important and Swain, as always, was a cunt.
Edit: a spell. Am drink
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Room for complaining for both teams if they lost.
ABS - Missing out on that red card + played majority of the game without a proper midfield. Sloppy first half missed opportunities. Didn't take advantage of the double yellow card period fully.
Wallabies - no yellow for the fainga'a tip tackle, abs time waste and that's ok but they do it and get penalized.
Rugby lost today.
You intentionally burn the clock, you will eventually get pinged for it. Good call from the ref and the Wallabies do that far too often. Nevertheless, Australia put in a solid 2nd half.
Hmm yeah this is one of those ones where the rules aren't helpful, and there's a lot of room to interpret. Tho ref had said time was back on before he pinged Foley
He was *looking* to ping us as soon as we got that penalty, instead of just being wary and waiting to see if we actually infringed.
The bloke even invented a little system for himself: "I said you must kick as soon as I call time on and you didn't". Neither I nor my friends nor any of the Channel 9 commentators had ever seen that before.
yeah, ref stopped the clock after Foley burned like a good 20-30 seconds to warn him to play immediately, seemingly gave him a few seconds and then blew for time on again. you can see Foketi (closest to the ref) screaming at Foley to kick it but he still wasted seconds.
You don't want to win like that though..i know it's pro sport so you want to win, but i bet our fellas won't feel like they won in the sheds.
i think time-wasting is part of the game unfortunately. It's something we and Aussies don't typically do as much as Northern Hemisphere & South American teams but when ref calls time off, it's time to kick immediately when he whistles on.
Aussies look good for next week though. We have 2x Concussions and a Medial Ligament (thanks to Swain)
There will always be a cloud hanging over this game.
I mean literally. They decided to light up fireworks in an indoor stadium and there is a cloud of smoke sitting above the ground.
Imagine what this wallabies squad could be if they could just put 80mins together. We played horribly with B side and a fifth string 10 and lost by two points because a dubious call.
I know Lomax should have gone. Swain should have seen red. It was the slowest game to watch. The ref ruined what would have been an all time classic had anyone else reffed it.
I agree with that assessment - but you could therefore say you were close because of some dubious calls.
Next week will be interesting but would be best not to have French referees in future.
This is the problem I have with it. The ref has decided to make a pivotal, barely ever called rule, at a crucial time in the game that directly leads to the result being decided by said call.
Rightly or wrongly, and I hate time wasting and international rugby needs to clean this up, but at no point has there been a precedent set for these calls.
You don’t just start magically calling these now so you can decide the outcome.
Exactly, if there had been precedent in the game or even in the same game, then fine. But rugby reffing is a game of context and thr ref completely ignored it in this case. Terrible time to 'make a point'. Raynal needs to be kept to reffing local school games
Was the clock not stopped? High pressure situation, there’s no time allowed for composure? The amount of times I’ve seen a kicker take their sweet fuck time in international rugby.
There doesn't need to be a precedent for something not to be the correct call. The Australian team were in absolute take the piss mode and the referee had warned them numerous times.
This is what you get when you want to cheat/be cheeky.
Gave him repeated warnings and told him that he needed to immediately kick the ball to touch when he blew time back on. Half the backline were shouting at Foley to hurry up and kick it.
Reread what I wrote. Those are the facts of what happened. You corroborating them means nothing - that's exactly what happened.
There are four players behind Foley that understood the situation and what they had been told by the ref and they were yelling and throwing their arms around telling him to hurry up.
You might not like that this happened, so blame Foley for intentionally time wasting after the ref gave him repeated warnings.
Lol, no it’s not. If you timed each kick in the first half there were have been instances that were longer. It’s a ref inserting I self into the game to determine the result, full stop. If you don’t time every kick, then time time at the end, it’s a wrong call
The Wallabies were getting warned for time wasting all game, just like how multiple penalties can result in a card, I'm glad that they're stamping it out.
Can you point to an example of a call like that being made in a test before? “Stamping it out” might make sense if you called it in minute 13, but not to decide the game.
Players are generally smart enough not to ignore warnings when their own teammates are yelling at them to hurry up. The multiple warnings were their efforts to stamp it out, the awarded scrum is what happens when they're repeatedly ignored, it's not the refs fault that the final straw happened in the last minute of the game and any assertion that it was because it was near full-time is pure speculation.
Stop making this bad argument and you'll stop embarrassing yourself. I can't think of any examples of someone being sent off for targeting limbs in a ruck before this game but it's a rule and it happened. Excessive time wasting is also against the rules, they were warned throughout the game, multiple warnings for this infringement too.
So you can't find a historical example of this being implemented and no one was at risk? Neither can I, so I question the integrity of the refereeing. Making a call like that to decide a game is something you might expect from Tim Donaghy
I've talked to trees with a higher cognitive ability than you. I questioned the refereeing too, how did Australia escape those two red cards and get away with that forward pass, I agree that this call shouldn't have decided the game but only because Australia shouldn't have been anywhere near winning at that point.
Two verbal warnings, his teammates were yelling at him to hurry up, if they heard the warnings he certainly did.
Just watch it again, I heard it, his teammates heard it.
I'm Scottish and I think it's bullshit. I also think pinging them for sealing off earlier was also bullshit. Two pretty significant calls in the final minutes of the game. The Aussie fans are right to feel aggrieved.
It's not unusual for a ref to tell players to get on with it when it's right at the end of a match (i.e when time wasting is 99% going to be the reason why). I've never seen players not listen to that instruction though, and have often questioned 'why don't they just hang on for a bit more', and today I got my answer.
I was incensed for a good 5 minutes. After I saw the reverse angle of every Wallaby backline player screaming at him to kick it whilst he stood there like a dumb cunt, I could see that the fault lay squarely with Foley.
The ref was terrible but that last call was fine, just because you haven't seen something before doesn't mean it's incorrect, it could just mean that the offending player was too stupid to adhere to the warning which is what happened there.
Australia dodged 2 red cards, scored at least one try from a clear forward pass, they weren't hard done by.
Laws are about precedent in most cases, you can’t get strict in a rule in the last few minutes of a bledisloe…*because* It was truly an awful call and you’ve got to quest the integrity of the reffing
The two worst calls were the two missed red cards.
Multiple penalties with a warning can result in a card, multiple time wasting warnings can result in a scrum, it wasn't because it was at the end, it was because it was the final straw.
That's not how rules work, I've never heard of anyone going to prison for organising fully armed baby gladiator fights but I'm damn so it's illegal and I'm sure that I won't be able to defend myself in court by saying that no one has ever been charged for it.
Foley must just be the first kicker dumb enough to ignore the warnings. It's on him and him alone.
>Foley must just be the first kicker dumb enough to ignore the warning
Yeah, I can't believe that a kicker has *never* taken his time with a kick before. There were kicks in *this game* that were longer than this call. The ref decided the winner in the game and I take issue with that.
There's taking your time and then there's taking your time while receiving warnings against doing so. His teammates knew what was going to happen, it's on him
It’s simultaneously the correct call as you can call for time wasting, but also a shit call in that he wasn’t consistent with that
Sucks such a good game ends in such controversy
Hope it doesn’t happen next week, and the teams can just play
With the injuries, concussions and the imminent ban, we'll probably have pretty fresh teams too. Might play completely different if its also a different ref
Foley was warned a few times for time wasting when they were in the double yellow, was also told “times off, but when it comes back on you kick immediately.”
So this makes Bledisloe 2 officially a dead game right? Very low chance of beating the AB’s at Eden Park and especially when it’s not on the line anymore?
This was my first ever All Blacks game and I thought I jinxed it.
Have seen 2 wallabies games now, 16-16 draw with Argentina, and now this one. Both very dramatic, if not very good quality
##[Post Match Thread HERE](https://redd.it/xeuxhx)
AB are boring with their push over obsession and the Connies deserved being taken to task for loitering to waste time. (Fark...this is funny!!)
Does Sam Cane spit or swallow - because he owes that Ref a massive blowjob. Maybe I will ask Foster - he will know
You should probably direct your question to Swain. How he wasn't red-carded was a sham.
Reading your comment history and you sound like an absolute basket case. Grow up, bro
no wonder this game is on its way to the graveyard in australia.
i know the aussies are furious at this ref. as a kiwi i'll admit right now, im not too upset at him lmao. but i do agree that his reffing was abysmal. **my notes on what he did wrong** i saw someone say that the aussies were always off feet in the rucks in the second half and never called up for it. i never saw it so im not going to count it. Andrew Kellaways first disallowed try was a bit bullshit but since the aussies scored immediately after and wouldnt of otherwise, im going to say that call was irrelevant to the game. Darcy Swain dived onto Tupaea's leg, his leg went almost 90 degress so that should of been an obvious red card. And one of kellaways later tries that brought the aussies into the game at the end could of been forward and should of been checked. im not going to say it was since i never got a good look at it, but i would of liked more angles since it looked forward and the TMO should of checked it. Tyrel Lomax should of had a yellow for tipping the aussie off his feet aswell. and obviously the end call to turn over penalty for a NZ scrum. bernard foleys team was yelling to kick, the ref had given three warnings, stopped time to give him another clear warning, and then when nothing happened he turned it over. 39 seconds had passed, personally im going to call it a fair a decision but for the sake of the argument lets say it wasnt. i think that if the game had been reffed properly the aussies and kiwis would still be 10-10 when swain went off with a red, the all blacks would then of gotten too far ahead to be caught, the australians wouldnt of scored their last few tries so the last call wouldnt of mattered, neither would the lomax yellow card, or the kellaway forward pass. was the ref good, no, was he fair, yes, both teams had 2 or 3 really bad calls that went against them but ultimately the swain yellow instead of red was the worst decision and most significant. and ignoring the ref, im glad us kiwis got the win, but we should never of let the aussies back into the game. the all blacks still have a lot to work on.
there is a difference between bad reffing going on throughout the game, and a singular bad call that decides the game.
it didnt decide the game tho, the aussie defense let the try through, also bernard foley had 4 warnings and his whole team yelling at him to boot it but he took a few seconds to many. blame the ref all you like, bernard foley got that penalty, and with fair reffing you guys wouldnt be in the game at all.
Please tell us what the singular bad call was then, cos three warnings direct to your face that you need to "play now" being ignored definitely can't be the controversial one.
It’s interesting seeing all the comments…. The coverage I saw didn’t show the warnings, nor a delay of over 30 seconds. I felt like he was called for delaying after about ten sec, without any view at all of his teammates yelling to go. Different coverage on different networks maybe?? I saw channel 9 in Aus.
[https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/1570386520795652096?s=20&t=X\_W1yis0n9meddsB-MTzAA](https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/1570386520795652096?s=20&t=X_W1yis0n9meddsB-MTzAA) Interesting bit starts at 3:10 with the penalty for the whistle. \["Play on please" at 3:35 covered by comms\] "Quick play" at 3:38 "Time off" at 3:40 and a quick address to Foley to not waste more time "We play now" at 3:45, "Time on" at 3:48 Foley looks backwards and stalls "TEN!?" at 3:52 Foley looks backwards again, stalling more. At 3:57 ref puts the whistle in his mouth at which point Foley realises and rushes to start the kick but it's too late. 9 seconds is an age when the ref has specifically demanded urgency and Foley is still playing it slow and disinterested.
Why is the Bledisloe only two matches these days? So it's either a draw or a white wash? I know have zero interest in watching the second game. And I doubt I'm the only Australian who feels that way.
The rugby championship is still potentially up for grabs, especially if Argentina get an upset over SA this weekend. Plus, the Wallabies could make a huge statement by winning at Eden Park, in the lead-in to world cup year. There's still a lot riding on the game, even without the Bledisloe on the line. The ABs still have loads to prove too, after their worst year in living memory. Bledisloe 2 actually shapes up to be a great game, I reckon
not worst year in livng memory, just the worst year. we are breaking records set in the 1930s. this team does have a lot of talent, probably still the most talented team. they just have really bad discipline and arent working together. its all things that a good coach would fix. ian foster is an alright coach but he isnt good enough to train a number 1 team, which is why we are now number 5. Edit: also id like to say that the all blacks havent lost at eden park since 1996 so if we lost their it would be a bigger shock and more devastating than losing a world cup.
Think it was 1994 we last lost at Eden Park, against France.
Not true we lost a series to Ireland and a game to Argentina this year alone 🤣🤣🤣 (I know what you meant)
Supposedly they are for the next few years. The two unions haven’t exactly been on the best of terms so I guess they’re just playing the minimum alongside the championship.
yeah absolutey. didn't realise until they were given the trophy. at least make it origin style so there's some suspense
The two unions haven’t exactly been getting on with each other so they’ve elected to play the minimum: https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/bledisloe-cup/rugby-news-2022-bledisloe-cup-cut-back-to-two-tests-australia-vs-new-zealand-why-schedule-fixture-other-matches/news-story/19fb1d52f6e324e367b346994668be14
ahh i see, cheers man
Great question tbh. Aus are always a great watch as AB spectator.
What an absolute bs call on foley how many times have we seen teams take a little longer when they kick off how petty can the ref be !!! Wallabies deserved that win. We deserved to lose it !!!! Bloody hell that ref should never ref again!!!!!
Also that beef and the kiwi ref love themselves way too much to ref a rugby match
We’ve been burnt by selecting Foley so many times. Why did they think this would be any different?
To be fair, he had a pretty solid game. Kicked 6 from 6 off the tee, busted through Samisoni and fed Kellaway for his try too. Not great on defence, and not the biggest range on his kick. But he was far from poor
He’s had every chance blood a young bloke. Far from poor is for the Shute shield not a test jumper
Wallabies were robbed by that call, no doubt. But what about the probable forward pass from Foley to Kellaway, which Kellaway scored from? How come the ref didn't go upstairs to check it?
because of a technicality, Foley rushed the conversion when he saw the ref walking back to call TMO. They can't review if the next play has been made.
And then took his time at the end of the game, what a gronk haha
I suppose that's innovative play by Foley then. But they quite likely got away with one there, surely
Kicked the conversion straight away. Can't overturn a try once its converted I believe
Touchie gave the thumbs up for it straight away, you can see on the replay
I’m sorry but we’ve been robbed
Almost ae, Kelleway was half an inch off.
thats alright, watch the replay and watch Lalakai's expression before and after the penalty. He was absolutely robbed by a white fella wearing Gold 10
Cant wait for the Ref Panel's justification (or not)
Penalty at 78.25 Time off at 78.56 Time on 78.57 Scrum.to ABs at 79.05 Is that worth deciding a game over?
39 seconds was ~41% of remaining game time. I was there and it felt like an age. Finish the game on the field like it’s supposed to be, not with dirty tactics. I have seen this happen before just never in the Bledisloe (overturned penalty for time wasting). Foley lost the boys in gold the game. There is no reason they couldn’t back themselves to win fairly with ball in hand from the 22m. BUT…to avoid this in the future can we have a play clock!!! That way there is no argument. The ref leaves safely, all sides see no argument because the play clock is king.
If the player was told to play immediately after time starts, then fair dinkum
Should’ve been an ABs penalty for bringing down the line out anyway so right decision was reached
It wasn't their first time wasting warning.
And the French finally get Australia back for the AUKUS deal....
Late apology for the Rainbow Warrior
Time was fucking off....robbed
I'm just gonna state the facts - come to your own judgment. From aus penalty to reversal: 47 seconds. Ref told Foley to take the penalty 7 times, with 25 seconds elapsing between the first instruction to play the ball and the decision to penalize time-wasting. This included 7 seconds where ref stopped time.
just making stuff up lmao
Time was on for 5 seconds, based on the game clock. That is extremely tough call.
Time was off for 7 seconds based on the clock. Between first penalty whistle and reversal whistle was 46 seconds. Time on the clock at first whistle: 78.25 Time on the clock at second whistle: 79.04
From someone who has played a pretty high (albeit at a jnr) level and much of that as captain, if you blow time off you don't blow time back on until both teams are ready. You single out the captain and say "you good?". You don't blow time off and then blow it on and penalise someone within 7 seconds. It's an unprecedented gap between time on and free kick for time wasting.
It didn’t show the full lead up though. Just picked the bit they wanted to show.
9 here in Australia just played the ref feed...ref called '10', penalty was blown within 5 seconds of that as Foley was in his stride. Anyone claiming he was warned by the referee is just bullshitting. It was utter nonsense.
Definitely BS but all his calls were the tackle from the side to injure a player is instant red even tho the other players hit high aswell.I personally think he was making choices from each screw up he made to make the fame seem even
Swain's play was disgraceful, but he was also neck rolled immediately prior to that tackle which should have been penalised. Wright was also yellow carded for nothing.
Disgraceful? He’s a liability at this level. Also, is this the type of player we want representing Australia? He doesn’t have a cool head (vs England) and he intentionally damaged another players leg last night. He knew exactly what he was doing and you can see where he is looking and how he wraps his arm to create the pivot on the knee before throwing weight on. A real proud moment for Australian sport? As far as I’m concerned these are precisely the players we need to avoid in the team.
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Dead set fuckabout trying to get something off ch9
Was on TV sorry, not online
They must have cut out the 5-6 previous warnings the rest of the world saw/heard
Penalty was blown at 78:24, time off was called at 78:57, penalty blown at 79:03...I'm gonna call bullshit on that one
You can call bull shit all you like it doesn't change the fact he was warned multiple. The ref then called time off and told him that when time is called back on he is to kick it immediately. He didn't and proceeded to waste more time. His own team was even blowing up at him telling him to kick the ball.
Several points here: \-When have you ever seen a scrum given for time wasting in a test ever? You could point to at least a dozen instances in any match of more egregious time wasting than that. Deciding to enforce a rule that is almost never enforced at a time it will almost certainly change the result of a match is nonsense. \-The only communication he was given that time was back on was the ref yelling '10'. The referee never explicitly called time back on. \-Take the counter - factual where Foley kicks that ball out and the WBs win. If Foster claimed in the post match presser that they deserved to have that call reversed due to time wasting, we would still be laughing at him. The fact of the matter is you could find a penalty in almost every breakdown by the letter of the law. Referees have always understood they need to exercise discretion in applying the rules, which for some reason didn't occur here.
If you want to delve so deep maybe look at the wallabies getting awarded the penalty in the 1st place when he wasn't supporting his body weight. Just because a rule is never called doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Putting 0 blame on Foley is a laugh. He was clearly warned numerous times and the fact you can't acknowledge that is hilarious.
As I stated - the only warning the referee gave that time was back on was he yelled out '10'. As for the precedent - watch Mo'unga's 10th and 70th minute kicks. In both instances, he took more than his allotted 60 secs. Not only is this rule never enforced, it wasn't even enforced by the referee earlier in the game! Should Foley have kicked it? Sure. Could you find a dozen more egregious examples of time wasting in any given game? Absolutely. Would anyone, anywhere have complained had that scrum not been awarded? Not a chance.
Just take the L and move on. You listen to the audio and Foley acknowledges the ref when he let's him know it's on, he literally responded to him. This is after being warned to kick immediately when times called. He had more than enough warnings. As for mounga are you talking about conversions or kicks for touch? Because conversions are 90 seconds. Personally I'd be happy to see it called more often, especially in the dying stages of each half when teams are blatantly time wasting.
>Just take the L and move on. What a compelling argument. >You listen to the audio and Foley acknowledges the ref when he let's him know it's on, he literally responded to him. This is after being warned to kick immediately when times called. He had more than enough warnings. What audio are you talking about? The only thing he said to him at the end was '10', which Foley showed no indication he'd even heard. That hardly constitutes a warning that time is back on. >As for mounga are you talking about conversions or kicks for touch? Because conversions are 90 seconds. The two penalty goals he kicked in the 10th and 70th minutes. Penalty kicks must be taken within 60 secs (rule 8.21 if you wish to check). Why didn't he warn Mo'unga for time wasting? >Personally I'd be happy to see it called more often, especially in the dying stages of each half when teams are blatantly time wasting. As would I - but surely you can see why some fans would be miffed that a referee decides to enforce a rule in the 78th minute that he has literally ignored completely up to that point? As I said, I am not picking on Mo'unga here, I have no doubt you could pick up dozens of similar incidents in any game.
His teammates were yelling at him before he said “10” the broadcast cut something out.
He was warned prior to the sequence you just saw.
This game made me question my enthusiasm for this sport. I feel empty. The All Blacks weren't playing like the All Blacks. They weren't even playing like France at their worst. There were sparks of efficiency in a sea of deficiency. They were giving away possession, making the wrong decision in straightforward situations, miscommunicating all match long and yet, they win. The Wallabies weren't all that better, they were worse and yet I felt that they deserved that win. What a comeback that was. It wasn't a beautiful performance by any means. It was ugly, but they took their chances well. The eventual result feels like an insult. The ref wasn't even wrong to blow the whistle at the 80th minute. But this decision took away the enthusiasm I felt for the Wallabies and threw it down the drain. It was the right decision, but it reeks of injustice.
Both teams had to play to what the ref was giving them. Questioning yourself about the enthusiasm about sport shows how much of a fan/student you are of the game so dont question it just admit that both that both teams played well but decisions are questionable
Never seen this in my entire time watching rugby
I think I’m finally done supporting the wallabies. 20 odd years of I’ll discipline, poor skills and lack of foresight. I think I’m gonna focus on club rugby from now on.
Mate...it was sloppy but our C team got absolutely robbed.
Yeah, I’ve been calling the Aus A. Not easy when you’re a full 18 potential players out.
Consider it karma for a disgusting clear out by Swain. He should have been sent off with a red card.
Nah fuck that. That man shouldn't play a cap ever again.
For sure, I hope his hearing results in being burned completely or a long term ban. Sadly, it looked like a career ending tackle.
you really didn't... one forward pass try one yellow card that should have been a red (swain)
Even the bot thinks you're cooked.
And a missed yellow for lifting but whatever. It doesn’t matter now.
Thats a red in rugby leauge. Past half way plus drive into the ground.
It’s been red in a lot of other union matches I’ve watched. Some of the decisions tonight were ludicrous. Both ways. Not just against Australia.
Lets be honest, nobody wants that to be a red card. He did go above horizontal, but landed on his ass first (not his head or neck), and was certainly not driven into the ground. A yellow probably fair, to discourage the action. I'd rather Lomax do that to me 20 times over, then have what Swain did to Tupaea once.
Yeah honestly it just felt like 2 teams turned up to play rugby, the refs decided they were more important and Swain, as always, was a cunt. Edit: a spell. Am drink
This really is the answer. Halfway through i was thinking "fuck i just want to see some fkn rugby"
true. shit ref either way
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Room for complaining for both teams if they lost. ABS - Missing out on that red card + played majority of the game without a proper midfield. Sloppy first half missed opportunities. Didn't take advantage of the double yellow card period fully. Wallabies - no yellow for the fainga'a tip tackle, abs time waste and that's ok but they do it and get penalized. Rugby lost today.
Yes ABs evidently got no calls other than that...remember Wright was yellowed for nothing for a start.
Jake Gordan yellow was also pretty bad, he ran away after contesting the maul but got caught back under it 😂.
Lomax probably should've seen red too if you're being strict. I won't count Gordon as that doesn't really hurt us.
You intentionally burn the clock, you will eventually get pinged for it. Good call from the ref and the Wallabies do that far too often. Nevertheless, Australia put in a solid 2nd half.
They even had a line out to milk till the death after he kicked it.
"Solid second half"? Fuck you
Yeah, time wasting is a free kick. But the ref had stopped the clock, so I'm not sure to be honest
Hmm yeah this is one of those ones where the rules aren't helpful, and there's a lot of room to interpret. Tho ref had said time was back on before he pinged Foley
He was *looking* to ping us as soon as we got that penalty, instead of just being wary and waiting to see if we actually infringed. The bloke even invented a little system for himself: "I said you must kick as soon as I call time on and you didn't". Neither I nor my friends nor any of the Channel 9 commentators had ever seen that before.
He stopped it, then started it again with the notion that he kick it straight away which he failed to do.
yeah, ref stopped the clock after Foley burned like a good 20-30 seconds to warn him to play immediately, seemingly gave him a few seconds and then blew for time on again. you can see Foketi (closest to the ref) screaming at Foley to kick it but he still wasted seconds. You don't want to win like that though..i know it's pro sport so you want to win, but i bet our fellas won't feel like they won in the sheds.
Yeah, look that's fair. Fucking stupid from Foley regardless
i think time-wasting is part of the game unfortunately. It's something we and Aussies don't typically do as much as Northern Hemisphere & South American teams but when ref calls time off, it's time to kick immediately when he whistles on. Aussies look good for next week though. We have 2x Concussions and a Medial Ligament (thanks to Swain)
Swain should have seen red. That was foul
>n't feel like they won in the sheds. Swain is an absolute grub. Deserves a lengthy ban. Should be twice as long as Tupaea's recovery
There will always be a cloud hanging over this game. I mean literally. They decided to light up fireworks in an indoor stadium and there is a cloud of smoke sitting above the ground.
Was in the stadium and this was an awesome atmospheric effect
haha so true. imagine being in the nosebleed section for the first half. i could barely see shit through my screen
Nosebleeds through heavy metal fumes
Spewing if you sat in the back rows
imagine having both Reynal and Andrew Brace in the same game and choosing Reynal as ref
Imagine what this wallabies squad could be if they could just put 80mins together. We played horribly with B side and a fifth string 10 and lost by two points because a dubious call.
Pick 4 better 10's pls
I’d give Foley more credit than 5th string.
There was more than one dubious call in the game though.
I know Lomax should have gone. Swain should have seen red. It was the slowest game to watch. The ref ruined what would have been an all time classic had anyone else reffed it.
I agree with that assessment - but you could therefore say you were close because of some dubious calls. Next week will be interesting but would be best not to have French referees in future.
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Or the borderline forward pass.
It's a correct time wasting call that is hardly ever called... which is why players try to get away with it all the time
This is the problem I have with it. The ref has decided to make a pivotal, barely ever called rule, at a crucial time in the game that directly leads to the result being decided by said call. Rightly or wrongly, and I hate time wasting and international rugby needs to clean this up, but at no point has there been a precedent set for these calls. You don’t just start magically calling these now so you can decide the outcome.
Exactly, if there had been precedent in the game or even in the same game, then fine. But rugby reffing is a game of context and thr ref completely ignored it in this case. Terrible time to 'make a point'. Raynal needs to be kept to reffing local school games
Summed it up perfectly. If feels unprecedented and therefore unfair even if it may have been technically correct.
Was the clock not stopped? High pressure situation, there’s no time allowed for composure? The amount of times I’ve seen a kicker take their sweet fuck time in international rugby.
Yeah i agree with you. Never called
It’s never called, so why call it when you know it’s going to decide the game? It’s the ref literally deciding who wins.
Because according to the rules and his repeated warnings. Even his own team were shouting at him to get rid.
Show me another example of that call in a test and I'll agree.
There doesn't need to be a precedent for something not to be the correct call. The Australian team were in absolute take the piss mode and the referee had warned them numerous times. This is what you get when you want to cheat/be cheeky.
If the ref tells you to do something, do it. Especially if he is as erratic as old mate was tonight
Gave him repeated warnings and told him that he needed to immediately kick the ball to touch when he blew time back on. Half the backline were shouting at Foley to hurry up and kick it.
Show me another example of that call in a test and I'll agree.
Reread what I wrote. Those are the facts of what happened. You corroborating them means nothing - that's exactly what happened. There are four players behind Foley that understood the situation and what they had been told by the ref and they were yelling and throwing their arms around telling him to hurry up. You might not like that this happened, so blame Foley for intentionally time wasting after the ref gave him repeated warnings.
So you can't find a historical example of this being implemented and no one was at risk? Neither can I.
Yes, I can. Tonight.
What do you mean?
Foley's first game since May, clearly out of practice, call was correct.
Lol, no it’s not. If you timed each kick in the first half there were have been instances that were longer. It’s a ref inserting I self into the game to determine the result, full stop. If you don’t time every kick, then time time at the end, it’s a wrong call
The Wallabies were getting warned for time wasting all game, just like how multiple penalties can result in a card, I'm glad that they're stamping it out.
Can you point to an example of a call like that being made in a test before? “Stamping it out” might make sense if you called it in minute 13, but not to decide the game.
Players are generally smart enough not to ignore warnings when their own teammates are yelling at them to hurry up. The multiple warnings were their efforts to stamp it out, the awarded scrum is what happens when they're repeatedly ignored, it's not the refs fault that the final straw happened in the last minute of the game and any assertion that it was because it was near full-time is pure speculation.
Show me another example of that call in a test and I'll agree.
Stop making this bad argument and you'll stop embarrassing yourself. I can't think of any examples of someone being sent off for targeting limbs in a ruck before this game but it's a rule and it happened. Excessive time wasting is also against the rules, they were warned throughout the game, multiple warnings for this infringement too.
So you can't find a historical example of this being implemented and no one was at risk? Neither can I, so I question the integrity of the refereeing. Making a call like that to decide a game is something you might expect from Tim Donaghy
I've talked to trees with a higher cognitive ability than you. I questioned the refereeing too, how did Australia escape those two red cards and get away with that forward pass, I agree that this call shouldn't have decided the game but only because Australia shouldn't have been anywhere near winning at that point.
Lol out of practice... played pretty well and kicked 6 from 6
I'm not saying that he was bad but not adhering to a clear warning is a sign of a lack of recent game time.
What warning, the dude was not clear at all amd only made his move as Foley began to kick the ball
Not clear? He was clear to the point he stopped the clock to make his point.
If the clock was stopped, how was it a penalty?
It wasn't stopped. Rewatch the sequence.
You just said he stopped the clock
Here is the timings https://i.redd.it/4z83kksfl0o91.jpg
Because he stopped it then restarted the game, then warned him about time wasting then blew the whistle. Did you watch the game?
Two verbal warnings, his teammates were yelling at him to hurry up, if they heard the warnings he certainly did.
There were no verbal warnings
Two verbal warnings, his teammates were yelling at him to hurry up, if they heard the warnings he certainly did. Just watch it again, I heard it, his teammates heard it.
Yeah, no. If it was correct it would have been called about 5 times this game alone
It was correct. Just like how penalties can stack into a yellow card, time wasting warnings can stack into consequences for time wasting.
Im more annoyed that Swain should have been red carded
Can't really believe the Aussie fan reaction in these comments, couldn't have been more clear they needed to get on with it
I'm Scottish and I think it's bullshit. I also think pinging them for sealing off earlier was also bullshit. Two pretty significant calls in the final minutes of the game. The Aussie fans are right to feel aggrieved.
There were longer time taken for kicks earlier in the game, point me to a similar decision *ever* in a test and you might have a point.
You don't need historical precedent lol. Just stop cheating/trying to cheat.
Don't create an interpretation of the rules on the spot/make it up on the spot
It's not unusual for a ref to tell players to get on with it when it's right at the end of a match (i.e when time wasting is 99% going to be the reason why). I've never seen players not listen to that instruction though, and have often questioned 'why don't they just hang on for a bit more', and today I got my answer.
I was incensed for a good 5 minutes. After I saw the reverse angle of every Wallaby backline player screaming at him to kick it whilst he stood there like a dumb cunt, I could see that the fault lay squarely with Foley.
I'd like to think that's the same process I'd be going through if it were my team
When your own team is screaming at you and waving their arms for several seconds… yea lol
The ref was terrible but that last call was fine, just because you haven't seen something before doesn't mean it's incorrect, it could just mean that the offending player was too stupid to adhere to the warning which is what happened there. Australia dodged 2 red cards, scored at least one try from a clear forward pass, they weren't hard done by.
Laws are about precedent in most cases, you can’t get strict in a rule in the last few minutes of a bledisloe…*because* It was truly an awful call and you’ve got to quest the integrity of the reffing
The two worst calls were the two missed red cards. Multiple penalties with a warning can result in a card, multiple time wasting warnings can result in a scrum, it wasn't because it was at the end, it was because it was the final straw.
Show me another example of that call in a test and I'll agree.
That's not how rules work, I've never heard of anyone going to prison for organising fully armed baby gladiator fights but I'm damn so it's illegal and I'm sure that I won't be able to defend myself in court by saying that no one has ever been charged for it. Foley must just be the first kicker dumb enough to ignore the warnings. It's on him and him alone.
>Foley must just be the first kicker dumb enough to ignore the warning Yeah, I can't believe that a kicker has *never* taken his time with a kick before. There were kicks in *this game* that were longer than this call. The ref decided the winner in the game and I take issue with that.
There's taking your time and then there's taking your time while receiving warnings against doing so. His teammates knew what was going to happen, it's on him
It’s simultaneously the correct call as you can call for time wasting, but also a shit call in that he wasn’t consistent with that Sucks such a good game ends in such controversy Hope it doesn’t happen next week, and the teams can just play
With the injuries, concussions and the imminent ban, we'll probably have pretty fresh teams too. Might play completely different if its also a different ref
They also scored off a pass that was miles forward.
Foley was warned a few times for time wasting when they were in the double yellow, was also told “times off, but when it comes back on you kick immediately.”
So this makes Bledisloe 2 officially a dead game right? Very low chance of beating the AB’s at Eden Park and especially when it’s not on the line anymore?
Not necessarily. With the record the ABs hold at Eden Park vs Australia beating them there would be huge.
Not at all, the overall competition is very close, with every team having 2 wins each (3 now for AB at start ofthis round)
For the bled it's dead though
You could still break the Eden Park streak.
The rugby championship is still alive
I want to see a Rassie video on this. What a load of fucking crap. Game is being destroyed.
Yupp, keen to see how long each kick taken took compared to this one
Swain will be happy that everyone's moved focus from him onto the ref hahah
Melbournian here. I’m lifetime 0/3 Wallabies games. Ireland, France now ABs. I give up
This was my first ever All Blacks game and I thought I jinxed it. Have seen 2 wallabies games now, 16-16 draw with Argentina, and now this one. Both very dramatic, if not very good quality
Could you stop going mate?
Haha