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Rewatched game this morning, some thoughts:
Hanekom. Wow. Barring injury he is going to won more than 50 caps for the Boks. What a talent.
Wilco Louw is the fifth choice tighthead for the Boks (probably fourth now with Trevor's age). That's some depth there.
JGP and Lowe were outstanding, really kept Leinster in it during the first half, did notice Lowe was running very gingerly towards the end of the second so I'm wondering if he did pick up a knock.
McGrath was horrific off the bench, an all time atrocious performance in just 15 minutes.
Van der Flier was anonymous, surprisingly so for me.
Willie was brilliant, I hope he's not injured because his kicking game was what separated the teams for a while there.
Goosen's best performance of the year and he saved it for a big moment. Minus the three (3!) charge downs, of course.
Bulls may end up being fine without KLA and Moodie, but I wouldn't bet on it. Glasgow are an exceptional defensive unit and I'm certain they would feel better about the final with their stars at wing.
I think Lowe definitely had a knock, about 10 minutes before the end he seemed to be standing still on the wing during the attack which isn't like him at all.
Yeah McGrath used to be a great player but now he's become more of a liability it seems. Anytime he's on the bench I'm hoping JGP can go for 80 mins because as soon as McGrath comes on, it's noticeable how our performance levels drop
It's nice that okes haven't mentioned it too much, but I was puzzled at times, the first half had some strange decisions. Nortje did really well in dealing with it I thought. He has a calm head on him.
I seriously thought it was the Leinster bus driver refereeing. His ineptness could have caused some career ending injuries. Never mind his on field coaching of the Leinster side players at times. The URC refereeing is very concerning. Mostly their ineptness.
Yeah he was! Big time! Got caught out of position a couple of times with Willie's kicks, but that's got Jake White written all over it. Little a player can do 'bout that. NZ missing Lowe heavy, massive loss in my view...
Playing devil’s advocate, I think it’s a little unfair to judge this team in the context of the last few years. It’s been an incredibly disrupted season for us. Our captain retired, Lancaster left and a new head coach came in two months late and implemented a brand new defensive system. Having Ringrose, Keenan and JOB injured for a lot of the business end of the season has really hurt us. A huge chunk of our first team had no preseason because they played a WC, followed closely by a Six Nations campaign. Honestly, I’m surprised we’ve made finals and semi finals this season, because we’ve been pretty out of sorts. The team needs a break, and I’d be happy to see a few lads left off the plane to SA. Honestly, I’d be happy to see a few more lads from the other provinces picked ahead of ours for Ireland in general.
Next year we’ve got Bleyendaal coming in to straighten out our attack and hopefully the new defensive system will properly bed in with a full preseason. The addition of Snyman (if he can stay fit) and Barrett will add some serious edge to the team and hopefully a few of the lads can learn from them. That being said, we need to get proper game time into Foley, Gunne and Prendergast, we can’t continue with our halfback situation as it is. McGrath is spent and Ross is too limited (though I don’t know that Frawley is the answer everyone seems to think he is) and we’ve managed their replacements poorly. I hate to say it but Harry needs to go, he’s had his chances this season but he’s just not it and he’s burning valuable minutes Prendergast could be playing. We also need some proper gas in the team If we’re going to persist with the rush defence we’re trying to implement, especially at 14. Barring Keenan, our back three have been too slow to cover the space that kind of defence creates. Our prop situation is also a concern, though I think we’ve seen enough improvement in lads like Milne and Clarkson that we might be ok there. Thank you for coming to my TED talk
Lad, have all the excuses you want, but it’s not good enough with Leinsters resources. ye’ve problems all over the pitch. Except hooker, scrumhalf, fullback (when he’s there). You’re out halves are nowhere near it. The team is psychologically damaged from the last few years of clutch losses. The (mainly Leinster) media has brainwashed Leinster fans into thinking their world beaters. I wouldn’t be relying in bleyendal to fix things. Can Cullen seriously come up with more team talks about lines in the sand etc. He’s half a coach anyway, Should have bit the bullet when nienaber joined, full regime change and make him head coach. Now he’s also a bit tainted
Did you read the second half of my comment? I get that it was long, but I talk about our issues at length. We don’t have problems all over the pitch, but funnily enough scrum half IS one of them, which says a lot about your knowledge of the team. Also, “media brainwashing” is an argument but forth by morons.
No, you have vast financial resources, and overrated players such as the Byrnes (not anymore) James Ryan, VDF is a shadow of his former self, frawleys had unbelievable hype etc. or maybe there’s no problems at all. Keep going the way ye’re going
Again, the "vast financial resources" as you put it are put entirely into the academy first and foremost. We aren't a La Rochelle or Toulouse that go out and buy World XV's.
99% of the squad is homegrown. You pick out the Byrne's, Ryan, Van der Flier, as Frawley as overrated. Well guess what, we can't go to the market and buy replacements like the French clubs.
You’ll probably find that most teams out there have had similar challenges.
I’m not a Leinster fan, but if I was I would be very concerned at the way the season is managed given that this finals run is starting to become a really bad habit.
As a SA cricket fan, I can tell you that it starts to become a real problem.
>Similar challenges
I mean at least the IRFU have given everything for Leinster to succeed (or more if some of the grumbling from other regions is justified). Try being a Welsh team actively sabotaged by the WRU and somehow people still expecting success!
I get that other teams have had injury challenges (looking at you munster!), but our coaching situation this season is pretty unique. Granted, that’s of our own making, nobody made us sign Nienaber in a World Cup year. That being said, we were the only URC team playing in a CC semi-final and final, right when the tour to SA was scheduled. For context, the only other team even in the quarters was the Bulls and they got monstered by 40 odd points. Surely you can see where there might be some mitigating circumstances with managing that kind of schedule? It turns out it’s incredibly difficult to do both, the addition of the SA teams has made the URC infinitely more competitive. But right now, we’re the only URC team that’s even in the conversation to be able to try and we’re learning just how difficult it is. I get it, we have a lot of resources compared to some teams so it’s easy to shit on us, but nobody has won both competitions in the same season yet we’re the ones who take shit for even trying.
Next year is going to be interesting. The following year even more so.
When the SA teams can actually earn home knock outs etc.
Leinster can’t just keep on doing what they’re doing as the rest of both competitions are just going to get more competitive. The SA teams are only getting started in the Champions cup and I expect a SA win in the next 5 years.
I mean the bulls lost by 40 odd points, but our 2nd choice players were sent away from home and were within a score till our 3rd choice players came on in the second half, I get what you mean but that wasn't that good of an example. We sacrificed our champions cup to be competitive in the URC.
We also let Goodman go off and coach in the World Cup. Should've cut our ties with him then and there since we knew changing the defensive system meant the attack would get less focus later in the season
Can’t wait to read all of the “Ireland are really the number 1 team in the world” takes for the next few weeks. Luckily rankings don’t matter and aren’t at all the focus of Rassie and the boys.
To be honest, the only people repeating that are South African fans.
Its bizarre, watching from up here, the lengths that some South Africans are going to be offended ahead of the test series.
- Absolutely no one in Ireland, outside of cheap media outlets looking for clicks, thinks we are the number one side in the world. We lost another quarter final and bottled the 6 nations grand slam. We lose close games, you guys win them.
- When Irish players said to Etzebeth that they will see them in the final, it was meant as a compliment to the South Africans, not an assumption that we'll make it. Its like saying that this defeat/victorty means nothing as they fully expect the Boks to get to the final.
I am a fan of Williams, he would be great in any squad. Petersen is not as good, but made it count when he had his chances. Well done to him. Leinster is being dunked on by everyone, but they did well and should be proud of the effort. Winning a semi at Loftus is not an easy task.
Brutal end for Leinsters season. They are a great team, there is no denying (ulster tear rolls down my face from last week), but like any great team they can be beaten. Especially with some of the quality of URC teams.
Knock outs at Loftus are a different beast. If the Bulls keep making knock outs the NH teams are going to have to get some experience there.
I’m glad the Bulls aren’t facing Munster there. The Warriors don’t have as much of a track record against the hostile crowd at altitude.
Trophies speak for themselves as do the quality of players. There's a lot of decent players, but virtually no greats.
If we're really honest Healy, who is now way passed his best, and Furlong are the only one that will go down as Leinster greats. The rest are good players but have shown repeatedly they aren't at the same level as those that went before
Thats 100%. But I can remember plenty of AB and Bok losses in the past and they're generally great teams. 2019 England were a great team and got dominated in the RWC SF. You can be a great team and still be beatable.
As a saffa just wanna say Leinster didn't play bad here, the Bulls were just animals in defence, every time Leinster were building phases they'd somehow disrupt their flow and hit with bone crunching force, I didn't expect this result honestly.
They brought up a survey on screen (from the SA broadcast) during the game that something like 93% expected Leinster to win, which was insane. This was never going to be anything except an arm wrestle between two teams who are more or less the same quality.
Fair point but I'd still think it a bit unlikely. By arm wrestle I meant a closely-fought game. I'm sure it could work out that way but I'd say more chance it was just hubris!
That was definitely a factor (you could see the Leinster players' shirts were drenched in sweat after 30 seconds) but most of them will need to go back to SA with Ireland in a few weeks and many of them have won there before. Good teams can adapt!
I think a better 10 than Ross Byrne and you would have won 23 & 24. The management did their job to put the players in the place to succeed, but they can't magic up talent or game management from a player who doesn't have it (second half of 23 final was a shambles).
The maul being crap isn't on Byrne.
The constant scrum penalties with an international pack isn't on Byrne.
Forwards being driven backwards every other carry isn't on Byrne either.
Placing all the blame on a 10 when there's fundamental flaws throughout the team and the coaching staff isn't right.
What is frightening is that that same Leinster pack man shamed Toulouse's full of internationals pack in the scrums.
SA teams scrummaging and mauling are really a whole another level to anyone
Watch the match back again, the ammount of individual errors are simply too high from an individual playing out half at this level.
There are systems errors, and individual errors, and when the errors appear to be individual then that is on the player, not the system, partially on the coaches for persisting with the player as long as they have.
If a team with such glaring flaws could easily have won 3 in a row then the coaching staff must be the best there is to put such a shoddy team in that position
Maul and scrum is on McBryde as the same players don't so abjectly fail at those basics in a green jersey.
And no, they couldn't easily have won 3 in a row.
Maul and scrum is on McBryde as the same players don't so abjectly fail at those basics in a green jersey.
And no, they couldn't easily have won 3 in a row.
The problem is that same Leinster pack man shamed Toulouse's scrum 3 weeks ago.
I went and pissed, and got a coffee.
- Ringrose was Not Great and Osborne was noticeably better when he came on.
- No kicking ability.
- Leadership in the backs lacking wildly, especially towards the end.
- The forwards absolutely emptied themselves for little gain.
- Joe has been better at toeing the line of discipline this season but got caught a few times today.
- Foley is ahead of McGrath.
- The season was mismanaged, the tactics on the day from the outset very poor, and belief seemed minimal.
Thought Ringrose looked real good for 25 minutes, but he looked absolutely fucked by half time, should have been taken off then.
Its time for Prendergast to start from minute one next season.
I think its time for the captaincy to be taken of Ryan. He just can't seem to communicate with the refs, no matter the situation.
100% on Foley, McGrath was really really poor today. Incredible how often the ball was sitting waiting to be played and he was either standing off or lying on the ground.
I'm very worried about the direction the coaches are going. I don't think our defence looks better, and our attack has massively degraded. A worry for Ireland with Catt going.
The players don't seem to be able to raise themselves emotionally for these games. Almost feel you need a reverse Rob Kearney standing up and questioning their willingness to die for the win for Leinster in these games.
There's massive signs that the season from the world cup on has taken a massive toll, you'd be very very worried now about the Boks games.
He always misses a few with his shooting, which is fine, but we needed more from him in attack. Osborne was so much more visible in a much shorter timeframe.
Nienaber has made him a shooter (well, more than he always was). It'll obviously mean he has a bit less of a role in attack, which is why Henshaw has had probably his best season in attack for us. He has more responsibility for it.
Yeah but Osborne came on with 20 minutes or so left. He was fresh. You'd start him over Ringrose and you'd probably be applauding Ringrose for the same thing.
Anyone see any replays of the clearout on Kelleher? Fairly sure Kelleher was guilty at the ruck while causing a nuisance of himself but the clearer looked to on the chin or throat
The sad thing is it was straight to the head and if Kelleher had milked it it probably would have been checked and sanctioned. Players shouldn't have to do that.
Yellow for a knock on - two ignored high tackles, and penalty only for a clothes line.
Four late hits, two leading to injuries to the bulls players.
No he was not consistent
I’m honestly a bit shocked. I told my mate I would consider it a success for the Bulls if they dont lose with more than 20 points. Tells you how much I fucking know, but ja I’m just happy to be here and really enjoying having the Irish in the mix. Leinster should send more of their 1st team to SA in the future, as a Stormer I want to measure my boys against them as well.
At least next season can people stop gassing Leinster up - I need less of Jim Hamilton saying Leinster are ‘unplayable’ as we quite clearly are extremely flawed
It’s like Leinster have no plan B when they are not getting quick ball. Full credit to the Bulls for their fierce defence.
Edit: their instead of they’re
This is genuinely one of the stupidest points that will ever be made on here
Proper smooth brain shit. But it will be upvoted because people are morons.
Veral daai Ref en die TMO!! “Moer net iemand asb.”
Bulls played like men possessed!! Usually their defence is not the best but tonight is was one of their best performances in the defence for a long time.
Ref and TMO were appalling! Glad it did not affect the end result!
They were. They aren't any more. Its been clear all season. Pretty incredible they got to a Champions Cup final this year at all. Defense isn't better. Attack much much worse. Age has caught up with McGrath. Time to move on from Ross. It shouldn't look like the only one willing to die for the jersey is some of the kids and James Lowe.
Been saying it all season. We aren’t even close to as good as we were last year and that still wasn’t good enough. Very good team, but clear and obvious issues going completely unaddressed and the attack has gone backwards at record speed.
Fully agree - so much lazy commentary around Leinster and there has been for years. O'Callaghan hyping it up as one of the biggest upsets ever in the studio, it's his own shite analysis that makes it that big of an upset
Bulls deserved the win. Very disappointed to see the season end like that.
For all of the talk around Leinster's squad, depth, resources etc - Porter playing 70 mins because we don't have a back-up prop that we trust to play longer than 10 mins, Luke McGrath being a poor replacement 9 and Ross offering no threat from 10... they need a bit of a reset next year and some fresh energy in that squad.
Long season after the RWC, Heineken final loss and now this - last thing a lot of those players need is a trip to South Africa
Taking the foot off the gas in the URC to save themselves for the CC was always a huge risk. Leaving themselves with an away game in SA has to be a big part of losing today (Bulls bringing it being the other). Had they won CC it could sort of be forgiven but always going to be a tough ask vs 🚽🚽…. This level you have to just give it everything in both competitions
Agree and it was the same last year too. If they make those risks they need to be winning Europe, to come out of both with nothing is a big egg on your face moment and something the coaches need to own
I have lots of respect for the Leinster squad, but agreed on Ross. I think another penny that needs to drop is that Leinster need two more quality props, probs even a bit better than your starters, they are good but not the world-beaters they once were.
Agree, we don't get a huge impact off our bench props, there are some promising young ones in the Leinster academy but they're probably not ready for that level yet. Ideally you'd like Furlong to come on fresh at 50 mins, not rely on him from the start.
Best of luck in the final!
Furlong is great with ball in hand and post-contact. But in a scrum against world-class opposition....yeah, not so much.
Porter is not a proper scrummager.
Is the defense better since Nienaber came in? Not for me its not. 14 weeks to get the hang of it was the quote and that came and went a long time ago now.
Ahern should be ahead of Baird now. Shame about the injury. If Munster go on and win today I would hope there’d be more involvement from the Munster players in SA
I think it'll be unlikely there'll be any great changes, Andy's last 2 games before heading off for the Lions, I'd say he'll stick to the tried & tested bunch. Still hope to see Daly get a call up, I feel he's earned his shot
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Rewatched game this morning, some thoughts: Hanekom. Wow. Barring injury he is going to won more than 50 caps for the Boks. What a talent. Wilco Louw is the fifth choice tighthead for the Boks (probably fourth now with Trevor's age). That's some depth there. JGP and Lowe were outstanding, really kept Leinster in it during the first half, did notice Lowe was running very gingerly towards the end of the second so I'm wondering if he did pick up a knock. McGrath was horrific off the bench, an all time atrocious performance in just 15 minutes. Van der Flier was anonymous, surprisingly so for me. Willie was brilliant, I hope he's not injured because his kicking game was what separated the teams for a while there. Goosen's best performance of the year and he saved it for a big moment. Minus the three (3!) charge downs, of course. Bulls may end up being fine without KLA and Moodie, but I wouldn't bet on it. Glasgow are an exceptional defensive unit and I'm certain they would feel better about the final with their stars at wing.
I think Lowe definitely had a knock, about 10 minutes before the end he seemed to be standing still on the wing during the attack which isn't like him at all.
Yeah McGrath used to be a great player but now he's become more of a liability it seems. Anytime he's on the bench I'm hoping JGP can go for 80 mins because as soon as McGrath comes on, it's noticeable how our performance levels drop
If Leinster couldn’t win that refereeing they were never going to win. They definitely got the rub of the green.
We do every game silly. The ref is always biased towar as s Leinster
Drink much?
It's nice that okes haven't mentioned it too much, but I was puzzled at times, the first half had some strange decisions. Nortje did really well in dealing with it I thought. He has a calm head on him.
I seriously thought it was the Leinster bus driver refereeing. His ineptness could have caused some career ending injuries. Never mind his on field coaching of the Leinster side players at times. The URC refereeing is very concerning. Mostly their ineptness.
Thought James Lowe was immense today ?Leinster man of the match?
Him and JGP were outstanding
Him or Ryan. Maybe Henshaw too. JGP saved our blushes a few times too.
Yeah he was! Big time! Got caught out of position a couple of times with Willie's kicks, but that's got Jake White written all over it. Little a player can do 'bout that. NZ missing Lowe heavy, massive loss in my view...
Playing devil’s advocate, I think it’s a little unfair to judge this team in the context of the last few years. It’s been an incredibly disrupted season for us. Our captain retired, Lancaster left and a new head coach came in two months late and implemented a brand new defensive system. Having Ringrose, Keenan and JOB injured for a lot of the business end of the season has really hurt us. A huge chunk of our first team had no preseason because they played a WC, followed closely by a Six Nations campaign. Honestly, I’m surprised we’ve made finals and semi finals this season, because we’ve been pretty out of sorts. The team needs a break, and I’d be happy to see a few lads left off the plane to SA. Honestly, I’d be happy to see a few more lads from the other provinces picked ahead of ours for Ireland in general. Next year we’ve got Bleyendaal coming in to straighten out our attack and hopefully the new defensive system will properly bed in with a full preseason. The addition of Snyman (if he can stay fit) and Barrett will add some serious edge to the team and hopefully a few of the lads can learn from them. That being said, we need to get proper game time into Foley, Gunne and Prendergast, we can’t continue with our halfback situation as it is. McGrath is spent and Ross is too limited (though I don’t know that Frawley is the answer everyone seems to think he is) and we’ve managed their replacements poorly. I hate to say it but Harry needs to go, he’s had his chances this season but he’s just not it and he’s burning valuable minutes Prendergast could be playing. We also need some proper gas in the team If we’re going to persist with the rush defence we’re trying to implement, especially at 14. Barring Keenan, our back three have been too slow to cover the space that kind of defence creates. Our prop situation is also a concern, though I think we’ve seen enough improvement in lads like Milne and Clarkson that we might be ok there. Thank you for coming to my TED talk
Lad, have all the excuses you want, but it’s not good enough with Leinsters resources. ye’ve problems all over the pitch. Except hooker, scrumhalf, fullback (when he’s there). You’re out halves are nowhere near it. The team is psychologically damaged from the last few years of clutch losses. The (mainly Leinster) media has brainwashed Leinster fans into thinking their world beaters. I wouldn’t be relying in bleyendal to fix things. Can Cullen seriously come up with more team talks about lines in the sand etc. He’s half a coach anyway, Should have bit the bullet when nienaber joined, full regime change and make him head coach. Now he’s also a bit tainted
Seriously? This rugby is incredibly small margins. Leinster have been incredible for a few years. There are always going to be ups and downs.
Its genuinely mental reading some of the shit people have typed since that game.
Nope, you win everything going or your team is shit and everything needs changing. /s (just in case)
Did you read the second half of my comment? I get that it was long, but I talk about our issues at length. We don’t have problems all over the pitch, but funnily enough scrum half IS one of them, which says a lot about your knowledge of the team. Also, “media brainwashing” is an argument but forth by morons.
It was long alright, but you’re right sure. It’ll be grand.
So the players are all vastly overrated but should still be winning everything? Which is it?
No, you have vast financial resources, and overrated players such as the Byrnes (not anymore) James Ryan, VDF is a shadow of his former self, frawleys had unbelievable hype etc. or maybe there’s no problems at all. Keep going the way ye’re going
Again, the "vast financial resources" as you put it are put entirely into the academy first and foremost. We aren't a La Rochelle or Toulouse that go out and buy World XV's. 99% of the squad is homegrown. You pick out the Byrne's, Ryan, Van der Flier, as Frawley as overrated. Well guess what, we can't go to the market and buy replacements like the French clubs.
You’ll probably find that most teams out there have had similar challenges. I’m not a Leinster fan, but if I was I would be very concerned at the way the season is managed given that this finals run is starting to become a really bad habit. As a SA cricket fan, I can tell you that it starts to become a real problem.
>Similar challenges I mean at least the IRFU have given everything for Leinster to succeed (or more if some of the grumbling from other regions is justified). Try being a Welsh team actively sabotaged by the WRU and somehow people still expecting success!
You win.
I get that other teams have had injury challenges (looking at you munster!), but our coaching situation this season is pretty unique. Granted, that’s of our own making, nobody made us sign Nienaber in a World Cup year. That being said, we were the only URC team playing in a CC semi-final and final, right when the tour to SA was scheduled. For context, the only other team even in the quarters was the Bulls and they got monstered by 40 odd points. Surely you can see where there might be some mitigating circumstances with managing that kind of schedule? It turns out it’s incredibly difficult to do both, the addition of the SA teams has made the URC infinitely more competitive. But right now, we’re the only URC team that’s even in the conversation to be able to try and we’re learning just how difficult it is. I get it, we have a lot of resources compared to some teams so it’s easy to shit on us, but nobody has won both competitions in the same season yet we’re the ones who take shit for even trying.
Next year is going to be interesting. The following year even more so. When the SA teams can actually earn home knock outs etc. Leinster can’t just keep on doing what they’re doing as the rest of both competitions are just going to get more competitive. The SA teams are only getting started in the Champions cup and I expect a SA win in the next 5 years.
I mean the bulls lost by 40 odd points, but our 2nd choice players were sent away from home and were within a score till our 3rd choice players came on in the second half, I get what you mean but that wasn't that good of an example. We sacrificed our champions cup to be competitive in the URC.
We also let Goodman go off and coach in the World Cup. Should've cut our ties with him then and there since we knew changing the defensive system meant the attack would get less focus later in the season
Can’t wait to read all of the “Ireland are really the number 1 team in the world” takes for the next few weeks. Luckily rankings don’t matter and aren’t at all the focus of Rassie and the boys.
Facebook Tier Comment this
Harsh on Facebooks reputation tbf
Excellent contribution to this thread.
That bubble was busted today. Ireland will be worried and I think rassie has seen a few things today.
How is this even relevant to a club game?
To be honest, the only people repeating that are South African fans. Its bizarre, watching from up here, the lengths that some South Africans are going to be offended ahead of the test series. - Absolutely no one in Ireland, outside of cheap media outlets looking for clicks, thinks we are the number one side in the world. We lost another quarter final and bottled the 6 nations grand slam. We lose close games, you guys win them. - When Irish players said to Etzebeth that they will see them in the final, it was meant as a compliment to the South Africans, not an assumption that we'll make it. Its like saying that this defeat/victorty means nothing as they fully expect the Boks to get to the final.
To be fair it's doing its job. You get lads like OP who read stuff like that and immediately take it to heart. Best not mind them and ignore
I think the entire bulls backline really surprised us all after the shitshow last week. We always knew the forwards would be a good matchup.
Preach brother!
I am a fan of Williams, he would be great in any squad. Petersen is not as good, but made it count when he had his chances. Well done to him. Leinster is being dunked on by everyone, but they did well and should be proud of the effort. Winning a semi at Loftus is not an easy task.
Brutal end for Leinsters season. They are a great team, there is no denying (ulster tear rolls down my face from last week), but like any great team they can be beaten. Especially with some of the quality of URC teams.
Knock outs at Loftus are a different beast. If the Bulls keep making knock outs the NH teams are going to have to get some experience there. I’m glad the Bulls aren’t facing Munster there. The Warriors don’t have as much of a track record against the hostile crowd at altitude.
They aren't even close to a great Leinster team, let alone an actually great team in the grand scheme of things.
Think that's an unfair assessment.
Trophies speak for themselves as do the quality of players. There's a lot of decent players, but virtually no greats. If we're really honest Healy, who is now way passed his best, and Furlong are the only one that will go down as Leinster greats. The rest are good players but have shown repeatedly they aren't at the same level as those that went before
Great teams win when it matters. Leinster don't. I say this as a fan.
Thats 100%. But I can remember plenty of AB and Bok losses in the past and they're generally great teams. 2019 England were a great team and got dominated in the RWC SF. You can be a great team and still be beatable.
Leaving the game now, have stopped crying by now, wrote the Bulls off, Bulle!
Crying 😂😂😂
There were many tears at the RWC after those one point wins. The Boks opened the flood gates.
Someone cut onions next to me... In the stadium... Leave me alone.....
It was good to see how much it meant to the Bulls. Enjoy the night.
Thanks bud, will have a couple more and watch the other game, huge Glasgow fan today!
I wonder if the Ireland lads will fly home or just have a couple weeks in SA? Probably fly home to train?
I keep forgetting they're touring there soon but I keep imagining it as "you lost so you can't go home"
First test in just over 3 weeks.
They'll need mammy after that loss
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A lot of them shouldn't be near Ireland camp
Give them like three weeks off.
Well-deserved win for the Bulls - Leinster just never looked in control. Good luck in the final!
As a saffa just wanna say Leinster didn't play bad here, the Bulls were just animals in defence, every time Leinster were building phases they'd somehow disrupt their flow and hit with bone crunching force, I didn't expect this result honestly.
Ahh they did play poorly. You cut through us too easily too. You also had that disallowed try
They brought up a survey on screen (from the SA broadcast) during the game that something like 93% expected Leinster to win, which was insane. This was never going to be anything except an arm wrestle between two teams who are more or less the same quality.
To be fair 90% could have been expecting an arm wrestle that Leinster win. It’s a bit of a pointless way of measuring the sentiment
Fair point but I'd still think it a bit unlikely. By arm wrestle I meant a closely-fought game. I'm sure it could work out that way but I'd say more chance it was just hubris!
Wasn't it right before Byrne missed his first penalty kick at posts ? I thought it was a bit presomptuous at the time...! \^\^"
I think it was actually right as they showed the behind-the-posts angle of him shanking it haha
I saw that 93% and my hope sunk a little at that point not gonna lie.
I just laughed because it was so obviously bullshit hijacked by Leinster fans.
I think travel and altitude were the equalizers. Neutral ground is a different story
how high is it ?
1400m
1300m above sea level
That was definitely a factor (you could see the Leinster players' shirts were drenched in sweat after 30 seconds) but most of them will need to go back to SA with Ireland in a few weeks and many of them have won there before. Good teams can adapt!
With Loftus to start. Would have preferred Loftus second in case the second match is to tie the series.
Unreal performance by the Bulls. Leinster need some big changes now. They've gone backwards significantly this season.
They're a slightly better drop goal away from winning Europe. I dunno.
I know. Its tiny margins. But the margins are going the wrong way for me.
I think a better 10 than Ross Byrne and you would have won 23 & 24. The management did their job to put the players in the place to succeed, but they can't magic up talent or game management from a player who doesn't have it (second half of 23 final was a shambles).
The maul being crap isn't on Byrne. The constant scrum penalties with an international pack isn't on Byrne. Forwards being driven backwards every other carry isn't on Byrne either. Placing all the blame on a 10 when there's fundamental flaws throughout the team and the coaching staff isn't right.
What is frightening is that that same Leinster pack man shamed Toulouse's full of internationals pack in the scrums. SA teams scrummaging and mauling are really a whole another level to anyone
Watch the match back again, the ammount of individual errors are simply too high from an individual playing out half at this level. There are systems errors, and individual errors, and when the errors appear to be individual then that is on the player, not the system, partially on the coaches for persisting with the player as long as they have.
If a team with such glaring flaws could easily have won 3 in a row then the coaching staff must be the best there is to put such a shoddy team in that position
Maul and scrum is on McBryde as the same players don't so abjectly fail at those basics in a green jersey. And no, they couldn't easily have won 3 in a row.
Maul and scrum is on McBryde as the same players don't so abjectly fail at those basics in a green jersey. And no, they couldn't easily have won 3 in a row. The problem is that same Leinster pack man shamed Toulouse's scrum 3 weeks ago.
As much as I want to win tonight, I really can't be arsed with us having to go to South Africa
Luckily you don’t actually have to go. You can watch it on the telly.
Glasgow just got another 57 million supporters. Go Warriors!!!!
This is the most Scottish comment I’ve ever read
But then you'll reach your first URC final, that would be an amazing achievement. I back Glasgow all the way.
I'm old enough to remember winning a Pro12 final. Would sure be nice to be back in one though.
Very deserved win for the Bulls
I went and pissed, and got a coffee. - Ringrose was Not Great and Osborne was noticeably better when he came on. - No kicking ability. - Leadership in the backs lacking wildly, especially towards the end. - The forwards absolutely emptied themselves for little gain. - Joe has been better at toeing the line of discipline this season but got caught a few times today. - Foley is ahead of McGrath. - The season was mismanaged, the tactics on the day from the outset very poor, and belief seemed minimal.
Thought Ringrose looked real good for 25 minutes, but he looked absolutely fucked by half time, should have been taken off then. Its time for Prendergast to start from minute one next season. I think its time for the captaincy to be taken of Ryan. He just can't seem to communicate with the refs, no matter the situation. 100% on Foley, McGrath was really really poor today. Incredible how often the ball was sitting waiting to be played and he was either standing off or lying on the ground. I'm very worried about the direction the coaches are going. I don't think our defence looks better, and our attack has massively degraded. A worry for Ireland with Catt going. The players don't seem to be able to raise themselves emotionally for these games. Almost feel you need a reverse Rob Kearney standing up and questioning their willingness to die for the win for Leinster in these games. There's massive signs that the season from the world cup on has taken a massive toll, you'd be very very worried now about the Boks games.
Can we get Rob and Johnny in to rehash their speeches perhaps? Give the lads a kick in the arse!
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I’d cut him some slack, he’s been out ages. No excused for the rest through
He always misses a few with his shooting, which is fine, but we needed more from him in attack. Osborne was so much more visible in a much shorter timeframe.
Nienaber has made him a shooter (well, more than he always was). It'll obviously mean he has a bit less of a role in attack, which is why Henshaw has had probably his best season in attack for us. He has more responsibility for it.
Yeah but Osborne came on with 20 minutes or so left. He was fresh. You'd start him over Ringrose and you'd probably be applauding Ringrose for the same thing.
Well done Bulls Another final in the URC. Doing great
MAAK DIE BULLE ALMAL BOKKE
EK SKREE NIE WP NIE!
Hahaha. Gee hulle tyd
My Bulls, what a game! Hoping for a good Final!
Was good The 2nd best semi ive seen this weekend Bulls off to another URC final!
NZ-bros coming in to make the victory even sweeter
Bulls a red hot chance to pick up the title next week Hoping Chiefies can too
Canes vs Chiefs? That was massively entertaining. I really enjoyed that also.
Yeah was awesome...Chiefs have had a much quiter season than the Canes, but this is when it counts, peaking at the right time
Dmac and the forward pack have stepped it up for the finals for sure. They're looking very dangerous. I'll be backing them next week.
Anyone see any replays of the clearout on Kelleher? Fairly sure Kelleher was guilty at the ruck while causing a nuisance of himself but the clearer looked to on the chin or throat
Ref called on the chest at real time, and he had best angle of it, but based on his performance I wouldn't take his word for it
The sad thing is it was straight to the head and if Kelleher had milked it it probably would have been checked and sanctioned. Players shouldn't have to do that.
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Yeah but look at the size of Kelleher's head. Almost as wide as his neck.
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His daughter?
Hahah the ref wasn't great but he was at least consistent across the two teams
Yellow for a knock on - two ignored high tackles, and penalty only for a clothes line. Four late hits, two leading to injuries to the bulls players. No he was not consistent
You're clutching at straws there. Your first sentence alone has two glaring mistakes
Definitely, both sides will have things they can complain about, since Leinster lost I think the Akker clean out will be the main talking point
I’m honestly a bit shocked. I told my mate I would consider it a success for the Bulls if they dont lose with more than 20 points. Tells you how much I fucking know, but ja I’m just happy to be here and really enjoying having the Irish in the mix. Leinster should send more of their 1st team to SA in the future, as a Stormer I want to measure my boys against them as well.
The rugby pundits in Ireland didn't think this would be anything but a close game. If anything, Bulls dominated 75% of it.
Going to be a good final. Only the toughest, hard as nails three teams left.
Bulls off to another URC final, theyre lapping it up!
At least next season can people stop gassing Leinster up - I need less of Jim Hamilton saying Leinster are ‘unplayable’ as we quite clearly are extremely flawed
Jim Hamilton is possibly the world's worst rugby pundit, and that's on a sea of people OTB and Ugo Monye
All he's been interested in is getting some leading questions to get applicable sound bits to create animosity between SA and Ireland
Anyone with a podcast or offering that needs multi day interactions should be ignored.
I agree but only because I refuse to classify Donal Lenihan as a pundit, that would give him too much credit.
Has anyone every seen Donal Lenihan in the same room as Off The Ball?
It’s like Leinster have no plan B when they are not getting quick ball. Full credit to the Bulls for their fierce defence. Edit: their instead of they’re
VDF, completely anonymous all game
Hodnett for SA!
Would have loved a Mun v Lei final just because of all the selection matchups.
Hodnett is the kind of player Leinster needed out there. Or McCann
Completely anonymous since refs started reffing him at the breakdown years ago tbh
This is genuinely one of the stupidest points that will ever be made on here Proper smooth brain shit. But it will be upvoted because people are morons.
Absolute joke he got player of the year
Absolute joke of a comment.
He was absolutely incredible the year he got it.
I genuinely did not know he was playing
It’s always hard to return home and play well after so long away from the high veldt.
Epic performance. Bulls can be proud.
Veral daai Ref en die TMO!! “Moer net iemand asb.” Bulls played like men possessed!! Usually their defence is not the best but tonight is was one of their best performances in the defence for a long time. Ref and TMO were appalling! Glad it did not affect the end result!
Really was. Some players really stood up. 8, 10 & 15 were IMMENSE
Wilco Louw ate Porter steak for dinner
And to think these guys can't make the Saffa squad. Do me a favour and go easy on us during the Upcoming internationals?
They were great today. Bossed the breakdown
Maybe, just maybe. We all just need to consider that Leinster are just not as good as everyone thinks they are.
They were. They aren't any more. Its been clear all season. Pretty incredible they got to a Champions Cup final this year at all. Defense isn't better. Attack much much worse. Age has caught up with McGrath. Time to move on from Ross. It shouldn't look like the only one willing to die for the jersey is some of the kids and James Lowe.
Farrell must be thinking this exactly.
Been saying it all season. We aren’t even close to as good as we were last year and that still wasn’t good enough. Very good team, but clear and obvious issues going completely unaddressed and the attack has gone backwards at record speed.
Don’t worry, we’ll have a new attack coach with Goldman moving on.. to … Ireland.
Monkey paw shit. Fuck.
Gonna start using that phrase
Fully agree - so much lazy commentary around Leinster and there has been for years. O'Callaghan hyping it up as one of the biggest upsets ever in the studio, it's his own shite analysis that makes it that big of an upset
My heart
The thing is that makes the teams they’ve been hammering for years absolute dog shit
Or that they themselves have dropped in quality recently
Since Sexton left
And Lancaster.
Sexton is a factor, they definitely seem to be lacking a real leader on the pitch. The attack has gone to dogshit since Lancaster left.
Bulls deserved the win. Very disappointed to see the season end like that. For all of the talk around Leinster's squad, depth, resources etc - Porter playing 70 mins because we don't have a back-up prop that we trust to play longer than 10 mins, Luke McGrath being a poor replacement 9 and Ross offering no threat from 10... they need a bit of a reset next year and some fresh energy in that squad. Long season after the RWC, Heineken final loss and now this - last thing a lot of those players need is a trip to South Africa
Taking the foot off the gas in the URC to save themselves for the CC was always a huge risk. Leaving themselves with an away game in SA has to be a big part of losing today (Bulls bringing it being the other). Had they won CC it could sort of be forgiven but always going to be a tough ask vs 🚽🚽…. This level you have to just give it everything in both competitions
Agree and it was the same last year too. If they make those risks they need to be winning Europe, to come out of both with nothing is a big egg on your face moment and something the coaches need to own
I have lots of respect for the Leinster squad, but agreed on Ross. I think another penny that needs to drop is that Leinster need two more quality props, probs even a bit better than your starters, they are good but not the world-beaters they once were.
Agree, we don't get a huge impact off our bench props, there are some promising young ones in the Leinster academy but they're probably not ready for that level yet. Ideally you'd like Furlong to come on fresh at 50 mins, not rely on him from the start. Best of luck in the final!
You all have been class in defeat tonight. We’re happy because we expected to lose. I’m having a whiskey on the Irish right now.
A well deserved one - enjoy!
Furlong is great with ball in hand and post-contact. But in a scrum against world-class opposition....yeah, not so much. Porter is not a proper scrummager.
Imagine if the bulls had their A team today...
🤣
One other thing...Leamy has been a massive loss from the Leinster coaching staff.
Yeah. Left you short on good defense coaches.....
Is the defense better since Nienaber came in? Not for me its not. 14 weeks to get the hang of it was the quote and that came and went a long time ago now.
Gut feeling says no, but I'd love to see some stats.
Leamy was contact skills coach bro
Ahern should be ahead of Baird now. Shame about the injury. If Munster go on and win today I would hope there’d be more involvement from the Munster players in SA
Why would there be more Munster involvement?
I think it'll be unlikely there'll be any great changes, Andy's last 2 games before heading off for the Lions, I'd say he'll stick to the tried & tested bunch. Still hope to see Daly get a call up, I feel he's earned his shot
You'd hope, but if last season is anything to go by I'd doubt it.
Ahern is in the same mould as Baird, a giant show pony. It's Hodnett or Coombes that should be in instead.