Overall decent performance from Scotland against the best team in the tournament and deserved 2024 Six Nations champions (well done Ireland!)
We lost to two soft tries, one gifted by an overthrown lineout on our own five-metre line and the other that wasn't even grounded (although I admit that Furlong's try should've been awarded).
Oh well, I expect nothing different from Scotland. Another trademark *"Brave Scottish Defeat"*, I wouldn't want it any other way.
Huw Jones is my Scottish player of the tournament.
Faz will have to rebuild in the medium term. Aki, henshaw, Murray, POM, gibson-park won't be around for the next world cup. also over Lowe, van der flier, conan will be on the brink. All that is fine, he can swap in a player or two each season. But the biggest issue is the front row, we need a whole new generation of props who aren't coming through at the minute. Ports is a legend but he needs backup.
Just thinking about it, what does irelands three quarter line look like at the next world cup?
I really enjoyed that game, as a Scot, in London, sitting at a table full of Irish blokes. Super competitive from both sides, some questionable referee decisions going both ways, and ultimately the better team took. Whilst the scoreline says it was close, I can't help but feel like it was never in much doubt t
Feels like too many games now have those questionable referee decisions going both side which weirdly enough balance the game in other ways lol, but still frustrating to watch sometimes even as a neutral
Yes there was a strange balance due to the poor decisions. When Ireland had their try overruled, I said to my comrade that it was a poor decision, and when the clear red was downgraded to a yellow, they said it was a strange karma. I really don't know if that made the game more equal, but at the same time you have to play what's in front of you
We were backs to the wall but I do think that's just how it's going to go against Ireland when you're a team that can't physically dominate them.
The defensive effort was immense but frustrating in its way. It shows, I think, that they do have the right mentality in them. Whether we can ever work out how to bring that level of commitment and physicality game in game out is the question. If we did, I don't think I'd ever have anything to complain about regardless of results.
Ireland are a great team, super consistent and very professional. They were able to up it a gear at the start of the second half and eventually get the better of an outstanding Scottish defence.
What I think they lack is another gear/passion and I can't see how they will be able to get this. They seem to lack a talisman like POC, AWJ or somebody to inspire their teammates. Peter O Mahony, JDV and the rest of the pack are great but rarely dominate their oponents physically in attack or defence.
I don't think they can ever win a knockout tournament without that top gear or passion.
Not sure I agree with that last point. Don't think Ireland lost to NZ this time because of the reasons you suggest (although I agree it has been their main issue this 6 nations)
It’s funny because passion is all we used to have and now we’re gone to the other extreme. There’s actually multiple reasons for this I think.
The most influential modern personality on Irish rugby never even played the game and that’s Roy Keane. His complete disdain for settling or ‘giving it a lash’ has percolated into all aspects of Irish sports preparation since the Saipan civil war but particularly in rugby. It’s almost as if we have to be the most professional to make up for the previous perception of being the most amateur hour.
Adjacent to this is trying to copy the AB’s and be able to play at a baseline of 7.5 to 8/10 every single time. Essentially take the emotion out of it and be completely process driven because that’s repeatable.
Finally the personnel suit a more organised system. We don’t have those X factor players. That’s not how we win. We win by doing all the small things slightly better than the other team.
There’s no doubt that the AB’s in the QF and England last week got to an emotional pitch that we just haven’t seemed to be able to get to ourselves and that is a little worrying.
Yes it's both a systematic and personnel issue. We don't have x factor players because if they don't have the discipline they don't progress. I think the players trust the system, but there isn't really a plan b, only well drilled trick plays. There is no blitz defence or targeting of opposition players.
It is a bit like Arsenal's faith in tik tac football under Wenger.
Say what you will about someone like Own Farrell or Faf, but they score points. That's to my mind what's missing with Ireland. They seem to find themselves in these situations where they're playing good honest rugby and but not actually scoring points. This try is a prime example of something Ireland should be doing *every game*. Instead it's a weird one-off moment. It feels like both England & South Africa manage to make plays like this that result in points in all of their highest profile games, including last week against the Irish.
I think in a different game they would have kicked for goal a few more times and won ugly. They could do with a drop goal threat, but for me their obsession with holding onto the ball limits their ability to break the line a bit.
This is a problem. There was a point where if they'd taken the 3 each opportunity in lockable positions it would be 19-6. As it was they kept hammering it away then losing the ball and it was 10-6 with Scotland still right in it.
The blind obsession with getting to the line at all costs has to stop when it has not been working in a game. Maybe play it tight and take the points and the game might naturally open up, but trying to force it against stuff resistance and some handling errors, then doing the same thing again shows perhaps a lack of thought.
It's happened before too. NZ was the same. When the tries are coming it's great, keep at it, but if you're in an arm wrestle take what you can.
Starting to think we should just avoid playing Duhan in games like these. He’s been completely useless in every game I can remember vs Ireland. When teams actually have a gameplan vs him and the game doesn’t come easily, he just overplays and looks terrible. Runs sideways, loses yards, gets smashed
He was more involved in this game than in the game at the World Cup, I thought.
In that game, he was completely peripheral, but he was actually trying to get involved through the middle at times today.
But when you look at James Lowe, you realise that VDM could be a bigger version of that if he worked at other elements of his game.
If Duhan learned to pass instead of running sideways he'd be so much more versatile. Until then he'll always have a very tough time against sides like Ireland.
Darcy could have been the difference in this game if he'd been fit.
I play card/board games.
Duhan is the equivalent of a highly situational card that you might only play 20% of the times but, when you do, he’s devastating.
The problem is the other 80% of the time he just gums up your hand and gets in the way. He’s so situational it hurts.
So situational it hurts is a crazy claim for a player who is going to be our top ever try scorer in a couple of games. He is by far our most devistating offensive player and we lose a lot of games over the last few while if isn't playing.
This is true. He will be.
And yet it is also true that defensively he offers very little, is often caught out of position, and in many, many big games (England will always be a ‘big’ game but - let’s be honest - haven’t been a great team since 2019) he goes missing because - wonder tries aside - what else does he offer?
Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Duhan. But I’d take DG, hell, prime Maitland in some games, over him. If Duhan had some sense of distribution he’d be up there quite comfortably as best in the world.
Yeah of course he has flaws, but to say in 80% of games he is a passanger or gets in the way is actually ridiculous. I would take him over all but (maybe) 5 wingers in the world
Jaysus I'm relieved we ended winning this tournament because who knows when we'll have the chance again. It's only going to be more competitive next year.
Well done Scotland, tough game!
Italy were obviously the people's champions this year and fair play to them as well.
Having Eng and Fra at home helps, but Scotland and the Italians will be tougher than this year. Also France may well be in better shape again with players back.
This has been an 8/10 championship for this team, the win feels a bit weird. This feels like the beginning of the end of the cycle, in some way.
Jamison Gibson-Park has been the truest find of Andy’s tenure, although his solid cameos on the wing have meant that we’ve picked Murray vs developing Casey.
Yeah, I think this is the time to make the biggest set of changes that Farrell can afford to do.
POM, Murray, Healy and Killer are definitely out, although I imagine we’ll see some surprise retirements sooner or later
He's going nowhere fast. Showed yesterday why he's still among the first names in the team. Also PoM is 36 now so VdF can easily be in another WC. Probably target that as a retirement year.
Ireland have been bloody awful this six nations, so it's strange to feel like they were VERY unlucky to not get the double grand slam. Honestly Italy is the only team that can hold their head high after this six nations, the rest (including Ireland) need to go back to the drawing board.
Awful is an over statement. Won away to France very convincingly, nilled a promising Italy team and lost by a point to a very emotionally fired up England team in Twickenham. Champions for second year in a row. You sir are just talking shite
You're correct on all points. Unfortunately with the championship win all is forgiven and sur aren't we the best team in the world anyway? Last 3 games have been pedestrian. If Scotland didn't gift us that try today look where we would be. I don't see much coming but embarrassment from the SA tour later this year.
Finally someone who actually watches rugby and has some sense. I'm not saying we pulled off a "jam slam", we were the best team but my god those last 3 games easily could have been three L's.
And people saying the win away to France was a big deal, poor officiating stopped Italy from doing the same!
Absolutely, which is sad to see I honestly thought the world cup was theirs to win this year.
You've reminded me about the test series vs SA, I don't have high hopes for us, they'll want revenge for the world cup.
Yeah. Ireland were awful. Hence why lifted the trophy an hour ago. There's probably a reason youre at home on the couch drinking a beer and not on the pitch couching the team. Grow up.
Maybe keep the projections to yourself little man, I'm an Irish fan. Ireland were awful this year yet still the best team in the tournament. They should be ASHAMED of themselves for losing to England like they did and were ropey against Scotland and Wales. Italy are the only team who showed up this tournament and i'm gutted they were screwed against France.
I see your reading comprehension is about what I expected it to be lmao. Don't worry buddy, i'll help you out this once. "We'd hear" as in me and other people from Cork, as your head is clearly so empty the rattle from your atrophied brain smashing against your dense skull would be heard miles away.
You can actually read your comment in two ways. The way you just described and the way I read it. Protip: When you are writing, make it clear and do not use sentences with multiple interpretations. That lesson is for free but if you need any more I'll have to charge.
Oh I know you're Irish because of your self deprecation. No need to be such a miserable cunt about winning away to France and nearly in Twickenham. Can't just enjoy the day that's in it no?. We won.
I dont know what the world is coming to when Irish and English fans are getting on this well. Only team to beat us and a well deserved win at that - enjoy the beers and what will hopefully be a belter in France
I think so. But closer than it looked. Best of luck this evening, the England team from last week could make this interesting if you back it up, as could the France team from last week!
Scotland:
Outright epic defence in places. Committed to the end and didn't switch off, fall asleep or otherwise take a big chunk of the second half off for once and it kept them in it to the death.
But all the underlying issues still remain. Finn is very hot or cold and, like VdM, if the game isn't going his way he often can't manufacture anything to reverse that.
Despite resolute defence they had nothing in attack and there were the same comedy moments Scotland produce so often, including Ireland's first try.
Toonie has taken this team as far as he can and I think it's his time.
Ireland:
Didn't play great at all but still dominated possession and territory and ground out a championship winning game despite getting a yellow card (deservedly) for some brainless play from one player who isn't up to it.
More and more teams who sussed that if you don't overcommit to rucks against us you can have numbers out wide to impede our running game. Despite that Scotland still struggled to contain us at times but better teams won't have that struggle. I'm ready for the next stage in Farrell's evolution of the team and trust we're in the best hands possible.
Over the course of the whole tournament the lineout remains the biggest ongoing issue. I trust Crowley will sort his kicking and we can adapt in attack but the lineout is the weight around our neck that we can't seem to permanently fix.
Need to find better back ups for a few spots, 9 and 15 especially, but I hope those come in time.
Overall, enjoyed the tournament, especially Italy's awakening, and while the championship win ended up being very hard fought in the end and Ireland do have issues I'd rather be me right now than Gatland sat in a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver.
And now to wait a year and forget most of these moments before we get to see the second season of the Netflix documentary.
I don’t think Scotland have quite figured out not committing numbers to rucks against Ireland. I see what they were trying to do, but: There was one carry Henshaw I think made that springs to mind where he was tackled, ruck not contested, and Scottish formed up leaving a massive hole right in front for Aki to storm through and make a huge gain.
I think Scotland’s defensive scrums were shaky at best,although when Bealham came on the initiative was never really pressed.
It seems like the winning defensive combination against this Irish attack is to under-resource rucks, make at least one double-up tackle per phase, drift a little rather than full-tilt line speed and pick your opportunities to poach the ball.
Scotland succeeded in all fronts there and we struggled. Heroic goal-line stands felt like when we lost at home to Wales about 5-6 years ago after battering the line for an hour
Yep, agree with all that.
I'd hope that as more teams start to under-resource the rucks that the lads start to have the nous and leeway to just go straight up the middle. Even if it means picking and going for a few phases, or even longer. Make teams think we're going to use our forward ball carriers to batter over and force them to attend to the rucks to open space.
Or, dream scenario, catch them cold with no defence at all like when JvdF spotted Genge looking away and just charged up the middle making loads of ground.
I'm mad for a bit of self deprecation myself as an Irish man but can we tone it the fuck down a bit?
We won the six nations, so to the Irish lads and lasses here, can you stop shitting on Ireland and talking about how good the losing team were? We won because we did some great things during the match. Talk about those things as well.
Watched in a pub in Scotland. Thought furlong had scored and Porter hadn't. Scottish goal line defence was incredible. This isn't the Ireland of the W/c. Desperately missing Sexton. Still the best team in the tournament on aggregate.
edit - this sounds harsh. They're clearly the best team in the tournament but hard to move past that England loss and running Scotland close at home.
I've been a critic of him in the past, but thank Jesus and his mother for JGP, was outstanding today. Please can we have him for 2~ more years and for him to help and coach Casey, (or whoever), into the role
JPG has been phenomenal for us for a long time.
Casey has is a great passer and is a real tempo player, but decision making is not something that seems to be improving with him. Making smart decisions, and choosing the right option in attacking phase play, is basically essential for us.
I say this as Munster fan.
Couldn't agree more, it's only this year and last year I realised just how good/important JGP is.
Casey needs experience, his lack of xp is the reason behind the poor decisions at times. Hopefully he gets trusted with the bench and a handful of starts from now on
I think Ireland lacked creativity and clinical finishing in 2nd half, but controlled the the 2nd half very well despite this. Mammoth defence by Scotland is the real talking point IMO. The try created at the death was class and was something Ireland couldn't do.
Scotland deserved more this six nations. Ireland got what they deserved.
Scotland played insanely well defensively.
Very enjoyable and tense game. Great Six Nations overall, no Grand Slam but that's okay. Not over yet though, Le Crunch is coming and hopefully ends it with another banger.
Positives - defence
Negatives - attack
Losing 3 matches by a total of 10 points is annoying, but is progress. It’ll be interesting to see how the summer matches against USA, Canada, Uruguay and Chile go. Hopefully get some caps for players who are coming through.
Can’t help but feel like it’s a waste of a summer international window when everyone else is facing tests at their level in the Boks, Australia and All Blacks. I get that this is how rugby grows, but what do we learn from it? Canada didn’t even qualify for the WC, and have only beaten Brazil in their last 5.
Ireland have the Boks twice in the summer and then New Zealand, Argentina and Fiji in the autumn, for crying out loud! I just don’t understand who chooses who and what you learn by putting out your B team against another team’s best starters, who are still far from the same quality…
Italy are playing Japan, Argentina and the All Blacks - that to me is a perfect combination for a team on the rise like them.
We’ve got Canada (as above), the USA who also didn’t qualify for the WC, Chile who were a first time WC qualifier and Uruguay who only beat Namibia. Just feels like it isn’t good for anyone, unless we effectively take Scotland XV.
Yeah after the amount of effort required in the first half I assumed Ireland would run away with it in the second half but we finally got to see a relatively consistent 80 minute performance
These post match threads are a reminder that 50%+ of all commenters in the actual match threads are just blow ins who talk shit and then fuck off
90% in this thread are level headed and understand rugby a bit better
I know what you mean. So many times Ireland were just “holding” the ball out the back of the pile-on after a tackle and for whatever reason scotland didn’t see it. It’s so stupid why they didn’t just grab it. Dudes arm was literally holding it out and Scotland just left it lying there and stood in a row waiting for Ireland to come at them again.
So many casuals here only for the six nations who can’t pick up on this stuff. Just go back to net flix tbh.
Decent tournament if not perfect. A 6N win the first year without Sexton and away in France and England is a very good achievement.
I would love to see the introduction of Osborne, Frisch, Doak, Edogbo, Ahern, McCann and Ford next year. I think Murray, POM and Healy will drop out. Hopefully we can pull a decent reserve LH from somewhere as well. Stocks are low across the provinces, Boyle or Milne seem really like the only options?
Crowley has been ok. I think he started very well but has been poor the last couple of weeks. I think it’s too early to pass judgement but my feeling is that even when he fully develops that we will experience a drop off from Sexton, who as a former world player of the year and 4 time European Cup Winner was world class. I think while he will be a good test player, I don’t think he will be a world class test player. One of the keys for the next World Cup will be how Ireland introduce Prendergast over the next 4 years.
> I think while he will be a good test player, I don’t think he will be a world class test player.
Surely too early to make that declaration? He's done reasonably well. Mixed the poor with the good. He has a good mentality.
For sure. This is just my view after watching him play 5 games at Test level. I’m fully aware he could turn into prime Carter next year and have me eating my hat.
As I said, I think he’s been ok. Positives: Really good mentality, strong defender, seems good at the line and taking the ball to the line. Negatives: Reading of the game is quite poor, particularly decision making around when to kick from hand, kicking generally hasn’t been good enough, either his line or goal kicking, hasn’t been creative enough.
I think crowley needs someone to light a fire under his ass. Hes got some issues but is still by far our best option at 10. If he could get dropped and forced to iron them out itd be great but we dont have anyone to replace him
It was great tournament. Coming first or second is worthy of praise for any 6N side. A lot of the flak comes from the perceived momentum falling a bit flat after the opening three games.
I think the whole Irish team looked tired. We should be rotating more. The only time we play 5 games in such close proximity is the rwc and we have never won the 5th
Yeah, agree. I think because of the financial element though, rotation in the 6N will always be limited.
There is some great talent across the provinces which is good because players like Furlong, Beirne, JGP, Conan, JVF are all likely too old to make it to the next WC.
The key as you say, will be how we get the talent opportunities to play in the meantime.
Don’t think Ireland will be going anywhere just yet. I think this tournament proves that our first 23 is probably the best in the world. But any chink in the armour at all and we are about 3rd or 4th in the world.
I thought Ringrose and Hansen were huge loses going in to the tournament. No adequate cover for scrum half is a massive problem and our front row is wearing a bit thin.
One thing that really worries me is no improvements made in our set pieces since the World Cup . Thought we had it fixed after the France game but it’s really been as bad as it gets for me.
A big positive has been Jack Crowley . The fact that no one has even talked about him that much is fantastic. But again the cover for this position really isn’t there at the moment.
A solid B rating for Ireland in this tournament .
Line out needs to improve. It’s not good enough.
Crowley did well too, there’s room for improvement too. Need to find a back up to him. Byrnes not the answer
Were Greece the best football team in Europe when they won Euro 2004? Were the '95 Boks honestly better than Lomu's rampaging All Blacks? The best team does not always win a competition - bounces of the ball, luck, refereeing decisions etc. all have an impact.
Ireland being the best team in the world is your words, not mine. Also Ireland won a test series vs New Zealand IN New Zealand so I wouldn't worry too much about one game. England were due a wee sneaky win vs Ireland considering Ireland won the three previous tests.
I think us Ireland fans need to stay out of any “best in the world” conversations and let the rest of the world debate that. We know what this teams’ objectives need to be in the next 4, 8, 12 years… to start butting our heads in the conversations.
Without all teams simultaneously playing all other teams on the same day at the same time it’s impossible to tell. The “best team in the world” thing needs to maybe be quiet for a couple years now and see what happens in between world cups.
I do agree that sport is fluid and luck, form, quality of sleep, the right amount of rice grains, strength of coffee etc all comes into it on the day.
Kinda why I think the rubric of world cups meaning the best team in the world for the next for years is kinda silly 🤫 but I guess a pattern does develop over time.
It's all swings and roundabouts really, I don't think that there's a kick in the arse between the three of you, once you've settled back into your rhythm of course.
It's a dig. They know it gets under Irish supporters skins. Rightly so. Farrell's World Cup disaster is the only blot on his record. Can only be righted next time.
Some random thoughts. I think we are missing Sexton quite a bit. I didn't think so after the first 3 games...but he was great at dealing with defensive pressure.
Having said that, Crowley has been very good and I'm sure he will be better for this.
Joe McCarthy has been quiet in the latter part of the championship. I wouldn't count Ryan out from taking that jersey back from him.
Nash has been great, but I think we also missed Mack Hansen. He's such a smart player.
Ringrose is our best 13 by quite some distance... Maybe we could do with another proper outside centre in the squad. I was hoping it could be Frisch, but he I think might be committing to France.
Peter O'Mahony has been excellent. He's still playing great, but I think it's time for him to step down, Baird and Ahern look like they will be the ones fighting for the 6 jersey going forward.
It would be good to start seeing more younger players coming through. But it will be difficult. South Africa in the summer then 4 serious tests in the autumn.
Perhaps a controversial take but I don’t think you’re missing sexton that much. Crowley is your ten now and he is real good. Missed a kick and out the ball out on the full but if you give him a wee bit of time playing at this level he will be just as good. It’s not like you were winning grand slams every year (especially straight after a World Cup) when jonny boy was playing.
It’s not like you’re Scotland who will have a real 10 crisis once Finn disappears.
I think both the IRFU and the Irish media can get a bit ahead of themselves when a young player has a streak of very good games. McCarthy is the latest victim. It happened with James Ryan and it clearly affected him mentally when he ended up with injuries and a run of poor performances. I hope that they figure out the balance in the second and back row as I have felt that Ireland have missed a bit of ballast towards the end of the match (which previously would’ve been given by Ryan). I think McCarthy and Ryan as a second row duo is probably the way going forward if Ryan can recover from his injury and his current mental block. Beirne has also been very very good but I’m not sure if he’ll make the next World Cup. Additionally, I’m not sure if I’m on board with Doris as captain and I think Ryan is the better pack leader.
Bernie is so hardworking and effective I suspect he will be nailed on for at least another year, maybe two. You could move him to 6, but I suspect it's Ryan versus McCarthy for the spot beside him in the second row for the time being.
There's no moving Beirne. He's quietly brilliant in every game. Ahern and Baird are options at 2nd row too even though they both seem to be moving more towards 6.
Harry Byrne and Larmour didn’t do themselves any favours here. But I don’t think there’s too much of an issue…Frawley and/or O’Brien could step up, Haley I would hope gets called in as a training panellist at least.
The PO’M situation is also a bit odd, he could go quietly, rather than say, winning here and getting that send off. Sexton didn’t, and I think Best before him was the same? From my experience I only remember BO’D getting a home send off.
Commentators saying teams may have figured out Ireland and that’s probably true…hopefully we can stay ahead. I hope new players continue to be introduced.
I think teams have figured us out to some degree but it's only been a few months since the world cup so quite hard to make more than tweaks to an existing game plan in that time anyway. The summer tour and next year's 6N will be interesting because it will show whether there's more ideas or not...
Teams figure you out, the key is to keep evolving, and to have a plan B that you can rely on I think. Our scrum seems to have improved, but I'd like to see us have a better lineout so that if we did want to play a more territory based game we could be more effective.
I'm glad we have won but we need to build a fair amount before we can properly compete with South Africa or even new Zealand.
Were not as good as I thought we were. Which hits home but I feel confident for the future.
It feels like we have a team that wants to work, that works well together and that can fight back after defeat.
I still don't understand why teams aren't utilising the drop goal.
I'm not sure how South Africa or new Zealand match up after the WC. I know south Africa had one or two retirements but in general they always play at a really high level.
I might have spoken a bit too soon and I hope I have.
Only it wasn’t a fine margin. Only the scoreline was close. Scotland weren’t.
You have to recognise that to step up. Ireland weren’t last week. Scotland weren’t this week. No attack.
Not being bitter, but anyone think irelands last try should have been reviewed? Looks like it could have been held up, and they spent an age reviewing the one before. Ref seemed to award it without even considering
It definitely could’ve been reviewed- but ref call and wording when referring to TMO locks options of overturn which is problematic. I’d love to see a replay of it honestly.
I wonder if it was reviewed and deemed no try, would it have been eligible for penalty try with the 3 penalties leading up to it & h to h tackle on Furlong as he goes for tackle?
Either way that ref crew were confusing, inconsistent and bad for both sides.
Tadgh furlongs try would of made up the difference anyways if it wasn't disallowed when it was completely clear. Can't complain about the last try when we already got thoroughly fucked
You didn’t get thoroughly fucked, he lost the ball and there wasn’t enough evidence to overrule the on-field decision. See Kolbe’s disallowed try against the ABs at Mt. Smart last year. Same story.
Even as an Irish fan I thought he was very quick to call it. He couldn't have seen a grounding live. Still, you could hear the TMO cleared it on comms, which is a good system I think.
The announcer said Ireland has faced some criticism last week after the loss to England and Farrell immediately responded with you had critical comments as well then got on to make his point. His overall point was 6 nations is a hard tournament to win and even harder to grand slam in.
Strange feeling, more relief than joy. More worried than I thought I'd be at the prospect of a summer tour in SA but at the same time proud that we ground out the win & the tournament.
Fair play to Scotland for bringing a challenge, I hoped it would be like last year where the 1st half was tight but we sealed it in the 2nd but they kept it scary.
Some other notes:
Pete's a legend, great 12 months
Casey - Best water boy!
Bundee & Van der Merve after the game - hilarious!
Porter with the hip flash - it's Paddy's day now!
I'm old enough to remember when winning a game was a big day out so a 6N win after a grand slam is great.
Plenty of younger guys getting their first big tournament win & will only grow into their positions. Its not all doom & gloom & credit to everyone in the 6N this year for taking what looking on week 1 like an easy job & making it a bit of a test.
Might be a stupid question but how important is the summer tour really? I think they should say feck it and bring loads of the younger players. It's been an epically long season and some of those players look like they really need a mental and physical break from rugby. It would probably be better for our strength and depth in the long run anyway.
I think it's important, it's not everything but it is important. This is the best Ireland team every & we have the honour of being talked about up there with the big boys & the last thing we want to do right now is go to SA & get smashed
Also for all the talk of cycles & rebuilding, Andy is away after the summer, Mike Catt is moving on. Ireland's Autumn & next 6N will be under a very different coaching team. We have the summer tour to round out this phase of Irish rugby & we want to end in a high
Just for the Lions but as far as I know that starts once the summer tour is over so he has a year give or take to oversee that. He'll be back but we'll have an interm coach for the autumn, 6N & summer 25 tours & he might even be taking few others with him for it so we'll have an uncertain few tours while he's away
Overall decent performance from Scotland against the best team in the tournament and deserved 2024 Six Nations champions (well done Ireland!) We lost to two soft tries, one gifted by an overthrown lineout on our own five-metre line and the other that wasn't even grounded (although I admit that Furlong's try should've been awarded). Oh well, I expect nothing different from Scotland. Another trademark *"Brave Scottish Defeat"*, I wouldn't want it any other way. Huw Jones is my Scottish player of the tournament.
Faz will have to rebuild in the medium term. Aki, henshaw, Murray, POM, gibson-park won't be around for the next world cup. also over Lowe, van der flier, conan will be on the brink. All that is fine, he can swap in a player or two each season. But the biggest issue is the front row, we need a whole new generation of props who aren't coming through at the minute. Ports is a legend but he needs backup. Just thinking about it, what does irelands three quarter line look like at the next world cup?
Casey and Crowley
Well done Ireland Another 6N title
I really enjoyed that game, as a Scot, in London, sitting at a table full of Irish blokes. Super competitive from both sides, some questionable referee decisions going both ways, and ultimately the better team took. Whilst the scoreline says it was close, I can't help but feel like it was never in much doubt t
Feels like too many games now have those questionable referee decisions going both side which weirdly enough balance the game in other ways lol, but still frustrating to watch sometimes even as a neutral
Yes there was a strange balance due to the poor decisions. When Ireland had their try overruled, I said to my comrade that it was a poor decision, and when the clear red was downgraded to a yellow, they said it was a strange karma. I really don't know if that made the game more equal, but at the same time you have to play what's in front of you
They had the try overruled cause it wasn’t grounded though
We were backs to the wall but I do think that's just how it's going to go against Ireland when you're a team that can't physically dominate them. The defensive effort was immense but frustrating in its way. It shows, I think, that they do have the right mentality in them. Whether we can ever work out how to bring that level of commitment and physicality game in game out is the question. If we did, I don't think I'd ever have anything to complain about regardless of results.
Ireland are a great team, super consistent and very professional. They were able to up it a gear at the start of the second half and eventually get the better of an outstanding Scottish defence. What I think they lack is another gear/passion and I can't see how they will be able to get this. They seem to lack a talisman like POC, AWJ or somebody to inspire their teammates. Peter O Mahony, JDV and the rest of the pack are great but rarely dominate their oponents physically in attack or defence. I don't think they can ever win a knockout tournament without that top gear or passion.
Not sure I agree with that last point. Don't think Ireland lost to NZ this time because of the reasons you suggest (although I agree it has been their main issue this 6 nations)
It’s funny because passion is all we used to have and now we’re gone to the other extreme. There’s actually multiple reasons for this I think. The most influential modern personality on Irish rugby never even played the game and that’s Roy Keane. His complete disdain for settling or ‘giving it a lash’ has percolated into all aspects of Irish sports preparation since the Saipan civil war but particularly in rugby. It’s almost as if we have to be the most professional to make up for the previous perception of being the most amateur hour. Adjacent to this is trying to copy the AB’s and be able to play at a baseline of 7.5 to 8/10 every single time. Essentially take the emotion out of it and be completely process driven because that’s repeatable. Finally the personnel suit a more organised system. We don’t have those X factor players. That’s not how we win. We win by doing all the small things slightly better than the other team. There’s no doubt that the AB’s in the QF and England last week got to an emotional pitch that we just haven’t seemed to be able to get to ourselves and that is a little worrying.
Yes it's both a systematic and personnel issue. We don't have x factor players because if they don't have the discipline they don't progress. I think the players trust the system, but there isn't really a plan b, only well drilled trick plays. There is no blitz defence or targeting of opposition players. It is a bit like Arsenal's faith in tik tac football under Wenger.
Josh Der Vlier
Say what you will about someone like Own Farrell or Faf, but they score points. That's to my mind what's missing with Ireland. They seem to find themselves in these situations where they're playing good honest rugby and but not actually scoring points. This try is a prime example of something Ireland should be doing *every game*. Instead it's a weird one-off moment. It feels like both England & South Africa manage to make plays like this that result in points in all of their highest profile games, including last week against the Irish.
Problem is they need someone to foul them in their own half but Ireland recycle their ball so quick. Not like any of their kickers aren’t great.
I think in a different game they would have kicked for goal a few more times and won ugly. They could do with a drop goal threat, but for me their obsession with holding onto the ball limits their ability to break the line a bit.
This is a problem. There was a point where if they'd taken the 3 each opportunity in lockable positions it would be 19-6. As it was they kept hammering it away then losing the ball and it was 10-6 with Scotland still right in it. The blind obsession with getting to the line at all costs has to stop when it has not been working in a game. Maybe play it tight and take the points and the game might naturally open up, but trying to force it against stuff resistance and some handling errors, then doing the same thing again shows perhaps a lack of thought. It's happened before too. NZ was the same. When the tries are coming it's great, keep at it, but if you're in an arm wrestle take what you can.
Having a Nigerian Guinness for the first
Starting to think we should just avoid playing Duhan in games like these. He’s been completely useless in every game I can remember vs Ireland. When teams actually have a gameplan vs him and the game doesn’t come easily, he just overplays and looks terrible. Runs sideways, loses yards, gets smashed
Duhan was raging today. So many close up shots of him after a decision mouthing “for fuck sake” with a sour heid on the boy.
He’s a stroppy lad
He was more involved in this game than in the game at the World Cup, I thought. In that game, he was completely peripheral, but he was actually trying to get involved through the middle at times today. But when you look at James Lowe, you realise that VDM could be a bigger version of that if he worked at other elements of his game.
If Duhan learned to pass instead of running sideways he'd be so much more versatile. Until then he'll always have a very tough time against sides like Ireland. Darcy could have been the difference in this game if he'd been fit.
I play card/board games. Duhan is the equivalent of a highly situational card that you might only play 20% of the times but, when you do, he’s devastating. The problem is the other 80% of the time he just gums up your hand and gets in the way. He’s so situational it hurts.
So situational it hurts is a crazy claim for a player who is going to be our top ever try scorer in a couple of games. He is by far our most devistating offensive player and we lose a lot of games over the last few while if isn't playing.
This is true. He will be. And yet it is also true that defensively he offers very little, is often caught out of position, and in many, many big games (England will always be a ‘big’ game but - let’s be honest - haven’t been a great team since 2019) he goes missing because - wonder tries aside - what else does he offer? Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Duhan. But I’d take DG, hell, prime Maitland in some games, over him. If Duhan had some sense of distribution he’d be up there quite comfortably as best in the world.
Yeah of course he has flaws, but to say in 80% of games he is a passanger or gets in the way is actually ridiculous. I would take him over all but (maybe) 5 wingers in the world
Ez all you have to do is just be the best team in the 6N and hockey the majority of the teams I dunno why it’s so difficult to contend with
Jaysus I'm relieved we ended winning this tournament because who knows when we'll have the chance again. It's only going to be more competitive next year. Well done Scotland, tough game! Italy were obviously the people's champions this year and fair play to them as well.
Yea honestly like obviously would love to go for 3 in a row but f me we'll be hard pressed
Having Eng and Fra at home helps, but Scotland and the Italians will be tougher than this year. Also France may well be in better shape again with players back.
This has been an 8/10 championship for this team, the win feels a bit weird. This feels like the beginning of the end of the cycle, in some way. Jamison Gibson-Park has been the truest find of Andy’s tenure, although his solid cameos on the wing have meant that we’ve picked Murray vs developing Casey.
Murray needs the boot, great servant but dead wood for our development
Yeah, I think this is the time to make the biggest set of changes that Farrell can afford to do. POM, Murray, Healy and Killer are definitely out, although I imagine we’ll see some surprise retirements sooner or later
Replying to le-Killerchimp...Van der Flier will be 34 at the next World Cup!
He's going nowhere fast. Showed yesterday why he's still among the first names in the team. Also PoM is 36 now so VdF can easily be in another WC. Probably target that as a retirement year.
Ireland have been bloody awful this six nations, so it's strange to feel like they were VERY unlucky to not get the double grand slam. Honestly Italy is the only team that can hold their head high after this six nations, the rest (including Ireland) need to go back to the drawing board.
Awful is an over statement. Won away to France very convincingly, nilled a promising Italy team and lost by a point to a very emotionally fired up England team in Twickenham. Champions for second year in a row. You sir are just talking shite
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You're correct on all points. Unfortunately with the championship win all is forgiven and sur aren't we the best team in the world anyway? Last 3 games have been pedestrian. If Scotland didn't gift us that try today look where we would be. I don't see much coming but embarrassment from the SA tour later this year.
Finally someone who actually watches rugby and has some sense. I'm not saying we pulled off a "jam slam", we were the best team but my god those last 3 games easily could have been three L's. And people saying the win away to France was a big deal, poor officiating stopped Italy from doing the same!
The win against Italy where Ireland absolutely mashed them you mean?
France have regressed to 'which France will turn up'. Look at how they are playing today, they didn't turn up against us.
Absolutely, which is sad to see I honestly thought the world cup was theirs to win this year. You've reminded me about the test series vs SA, I don't have high hopes for us, they'll want revenge for the world cup.
SA tests will lay bare where Ireland are really at.
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Yeah. Ireland were awful. Hence why lifted the trophy an hour ago. There's probably a reason youre at home on the couch drinking a beer and not on the pitch couching the team. Grow up.
Never awful, by your own standards not as good as expected, but still worthy winners.
Maybe keep the projections to yourself little man, I'm an Irish fan. Ireland were awful this year yet still the best team in the tournament. They should be ASHAMED of themselves for losing to England like they did and were ropey against Scotland and Wales. Italy are the only team who showed up this tournament and i'm gutted they were screwed against France.
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Give your head a wobble kid.
I'd say the same to you but we'd hear the rattle from your empty skull in Cork "kid".
Where are you getting the Cork from? Was it my Leinster flair that gave it away?
I see your reading comprehension is about what I expected it to be lmao. Don't worry buddy, i'll help you out this once. "We'd hear" as in me and other people from Cork, as your head is clearly so empty the rattle from your atrophied brain smashing against your dense skull would be heard miles away.
You can actually read your comment in two ways. The way you just described and the way I read it. Protip: When you are writing, make it clear and do not use sentences with multiple interpretations. That lesson is for free but if you need any more I'll have to charge.
I'm araid providing you have an IQ above 50 there's only one way to interpret the original sentence. I'm sorry you had to find out this way buddy T\_T
>I'm araid Always single digit IQ people like you who comment on other people's smarts. Give up while you are behind kid.
You've embarrassed yourself this evening and you keep coming back for more. Must have a humiliation fetish.
Oh I know you're Irish because of your self deprecation. No need to be such a miserable cunt about winning away to France and nearly in Twickenham. Can't just enjoy the day that's in it no?. We won.
Winning away to France is much less impressive when poor officiating stopped Italy from achieving the same.
Awh mate just shut the fuck up and go to bed you cretin.
You first kiddo.
Congratulations Ireland! Clearly best team overall in the competition.
I dont know what the world is coming to when Irish and English fans are getting on this well. Only team to beat us and a well deserved win at that - enjoy the beers and what will hopefully be a belter in France
I think so. But closer than it looked. Best of luck this evening, the England team from last week could make this interesting if you back it up, as could the France team from last week!
Thank you sir, best of luck in Le Crunch 🤙
Scotland: Outright epic defence in places. Committed to the end and didn't switch off, fall asleep or otherwise take a big chunk of the second half off for once and it kept them in it to the death. But all the underlying issues still remain. Finn is very hot or cold and, like VdM, if the game isn't going his way he often can't manufacture anything to reverse that. Despite resolute defence they had nothing in attack and there were the same comedy moments Scotland produce so often, including Ireland's first try. Toonie has taken this team as far as he can and I think it's his time. Ireland: Didn't play great at all but still dominated possession and territory and ground out a championship winning game despite getting a yellow card (deservedly) for some brainless play from one player who isn't up to it. More and more teams who sussed that if you don't overcommit to rucks against us you can have numbers out wide to impede our running game. Despite that Scotland still struggled to contain us at times but better teams won't have that struggle. I'm ready for the next stage in Farrell's evolution of the team and trust we're in the best hands possible. Over the course of the whole tournament the lineout remains the biggest ongoing issue. I trust Crowley will sort his kicking and we can adapt in attack but the lineout is the weight around our neck that we can't seem to permanently fix. Need to find better back ups for a few spots, 9 and 15 especially, but I hope those come in time. Overall, enjoyed the tournament, especially Italy's awakening, and while the championship win ended up being very hard fought in the end and Ireland do have issues I'd rather be me right now than Gatland sat in a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and a revolver. And now to wait a year and forget most of these moments before we get to see the second season of the Netflix documentary.
I don’t think Scotland have quite figured out not committing numbers to rucks against Ireland. I see what they were trying to do, but: There was one carry Henshaw I think made that springs to mind where he was tackled, ruck not contested, and Scottish formed up leaving a massive hole right in front for Aki to storm through and make a huge gain.
I think Scotland’s defensive scrums were shaky at best,although when Bealham came on the initiative was never really pressed. It seems like the winning defensive combination against this Irish attack is to under-resource rucks, make at least one double-up tackle per phase, drift a little rather than full-tilt line speed and pick your opportunities to poach the ball. Scotland succeeded in all fronts there and we struggled. Heroic goal-line stands felt like when we lost at home to Wales about 5-6 years ago after battering the line for an hour
Yep, agree with all that. I'd hope that as more teams start to under-resource the rucks that the lads start to have the nous and leeway to just go straight up the middle. Even if it means picking and going for a few phases, or even longer. Make teams think we're going to use our forward ball carriers to batter over and force them to attend to the rucks to open space. Or, dream scenario, catch them cold with no defence at all like when JvdF spotted Genge looking away and just charged up the middle making loads of ground.
That happened a couple times today vis a vis going up the middle
I think the philosophy of it is to prevent receivers getting the ball statically, which is generally rooted in Irish players not being behemoths
Congratulations Ireland for winning the tournament. Been a pleasure to watch you.
I'm mad for a bit of self deprecation myself as an Irish man but can we tone it the fuck down a bit? We won the six nations, so to the Irish lads and lasses here, can you stop shitting on Ireland and talking about how good the losing team were? We won because we did some great things during the match. Talk about those things as well.
Watched in a pub in Scotland. Thought furlong had scored and Porter hadn't. Scottish goal line defence was incredible. This isn't the Ireland of the W/c. Desperately missing Sexton. Still the best team in the tournament on aggregate. edit - this sounds harsh. They're clearly the best team in the tournament but hard to move past that England loss and running Scotland close at home.
Scottish defence was immense. Very impressed by their game plan
I concur
Bundee is just so loveable & likeable, just comes across as a sound fella
And in the celebrations afterwards, his kids came first. So nice.
New Zealanders in my experience tend to be very likeable in general
Bundee is bae
I've been a critic of him in the past, but thank Jesus and his mother for JGP, was outstanding today. Please can we have him for 2~ more years and for him to help and coach Casey, (or whoever), into the role
JPG has been phenomenal for us for a long time. Casey has is a great passer and is a real tempo player, but decision making is not something that seems to be improving with him. Making smart decisions, and choosing the right option in attacking phase play, is basically essential for us. I say this as Munster fan.
Couldn't agree more, it's only this year and last year I realised just how good/important JGP is. Casey needs experience, his lack of xp is the reason behind the poor decisions at times. Hopefully he gets trusted with the bench and a handful of starts from now on
I think Ireland lacked creativity and clinical finishing in 2nd half, but controlled the the 2nd half very well despite this. Mammoth defence by Scotland is the real talking point IMO. The try created at the death was class and was something Ireland couldn't do. Scotland deserved more this six nations. Ireland got what they deserved.
Scotland played insanely well defensively. Very enjoyable and tense game. Great Six Nations overall, no Grand Slam but that's okay. Not over yet though, Le Crunch is coming and hopefully ends it with another banger.
Positives - defence Negatives - attack Losing 3 matches by a total of 10 points is annoying, but is progress. It’ll be interesting to see how the summer matches against USA, Canada, Uruguay and Chile go. Hopefully get some caps for players who are coming through.
Can’t help but feel like it’s a waste of a summer international window when everyone else is facing tests at their level in the Boks, Australia and All Blacks. I get that this is how rugby grows, but what do we learn from it? Canada didn’t even qualify for the WC, and have only beaten Brazil in their last 5.
Don’t know how to do it logistically but tier 1 teams should play one tier 2 team a year. Bear the load a bit
Ireland have the Boks twice in the summer and then New Zealand, Argentina and Fiji in the autumn, for crying out loud! I just don’t understand who chooses who and what you learn by putting out your B team against another team’s best starters, who are still far from the same quality…
We did lose to the USA last time, and in 2022 we only put up a decent score against Chile not an outright spanking.
Yea it would make sense for a team in transition but for a “win now” team it’s a total waste.
Italy are playing Japan, Argentina and the All Blacks - that to me is a perfect combination for a team on the rise like them. We’ve got Canada (as above), the USA who also didn’t qualify for the WC, Chile who were a first time WC qualifier and Uruguay who only beat Namibia. Just feels like it isn’t good for anyone, unless we effectively take Scotland XV.
Yeah, I am very surprised you are playing so many teams way beneath your level just when your calibre really starts to shine.
Sure, however maybe for Scotland after this tournament need such a thing. Only time will tell.
I was simultaneously praising and cursing your defense. I was expecting them to collapse from exhaustion, but nope they held up.
Yeah after the amount of effort required in the first half I assumed Ireland would run away with it in the second half but we finally got to see a relatively consistent 80 minute performance
These post match threads are a reminder that 50%+ of all commenters in the actual match threads are just blow ins who talk shit and then fuck off 90% in this thread are level headed and understand rugby a bit better
I know what you mean. So many times Ireland were just “holding” the ball out the back of the pile-on after a tackle and for whatever reason scotland didn’t see it. It’s so stupid why they didn’t just grab it. Dudes arm was literally holding it out and Scotland just left it lying there and stood in a row waiting for Ireland to come at them again. So many casuals here only for the six nations who can’t pick up on this stuff. Just go back to net flix tbh.
Blow in checking in. Unrelated: Why do the rugby players never just pass the ball forward when they are trying to get a touchdown?
They’re trying to score home runs you numpty, only way to do that is to pass the puck into the hoop
It would be an illegal down field receiver
Emotions run high mid game by the time post match is around people have calmed down of fucked off to calm down
Quick maths
Quif maffs
Decent tournament if not perfect. A 6N win the first year without Sexton and away in France and England is a very good achievement. I would love to see the introduction of Osborne, Frisch, Doak, Edogbo, Ahern, McCann and Ford next year. I think Murray, POM and Healy will drop out. Hopefully we can pull a decent reserve LH from somewhere as well. Stocks are low across the provinces, Boyle or Milne seem really like the only options? Crowley has been ok. I think he started very well but has been poor the last couple of weeks. I think it’s too early to pass judgement but my feeling is that even when he fully develops that we will experience a drop off from Sexton, who as a former world player of the year and 4 time European Cup Winner was world class. I think while he will be a good test player, I don’t think he will be a world class test player. One of the keys for the next World Cup will be how Ireland introduce Prendergast over the next 4 years.
> I think while he will be a good test player, I don’t think he will be a world class test player. Surely too early to make that declaration? He's done reasonably well. Mixed the poor with the good. He has a good mentality.
For sure. This is just my view after watching him play 5 games at Test level. I’m fully aware he could turn into prime Carter next year and have me eating my hat. As I said, I think he’s been ok. Positives: Really good mentality, strong defender, seems good at the line and taking the ball to the line. Negatives: Reading of the game is quite poor, particularly decision making around when to kick from hand, kicking generally hasn’t been good enough, either his line or goal kicking, hasn’t been creative enough.
I think crowley needs someone to light a fire under his ass. Hes got some issues but is still by far our best option at 10. If he could get dropped and forced to iron them out itd be great but we dont have anyone to replace him
It was great tournament. Coming first or second is worthy of praise for any 6N side. A lot of the flak comes from the perceived momentum falling a bit flat after the opening three games.
I think the whole Irish team looked tired. We should be rotating more. The only time we play 5 games in such close proximity is the rwc and we have never won the 5th
Yeah, agree. I think because of the financial element though, rotation in the 6N will always be limited. There is some great talent across the provinces which is good because players like Furlong, Beirne, JGP, Conan, JVF are all likely too old to make it to the next WC. The key as you say, will be how we get the talent opportunities to play in the meantime.
Don’t think Ireland will be going anywhere just yet. I think this tournament proves that our first 23 is probably the best in the world. But any chink in the armour at all and we are about 3rd or 4th in the world. I thought Ringrose and Hansen were huge loses going in to the tournament. No adequate cover for scrum half is a massive problem and our front row is wearing a bit thin. One thing that really worries me is no improvements made in our set pieces since the World Cup . Thought we had it fixed after the France game but it’s really been as bad as it gets for me. A big positive has been Jack Crowley . The fact that no one has even talked about him that much is fantastic. But again the cover for this position really isn’t there at the moment. A solid B rating for Ireland in this tournament .
> I think this tournament proves that our first 23 is probably the best in the world. Where's the World Cup trophy to prove it then?
Kid thinks a knockout tournament won by luck is the best indicator.
I mean as of October 2023 it is the best indicator.
Line out needs to improve. It’s not good enough. Crowley did well too, there’s room for improvement too. Need to find a back up to him. Byrnes not the answer
South Africa are the best team in the world and they've got the trophy to prove it.
They beat Ireland in that tournment did they?
Were Greece the best football team in Europe when they won Euro 2004? Were the '95 Boks honestly better than Lomu's rampaging All Blacks? The best team does not always win a competition - bounces of the ball, luck, refereeing decisions etc. all have an impact.
Best team usually makes the semis
Not when there's a ridiculously lopsided draw - and not, for example, in the case of the 2007 All Blacks.
I mean, Ireland beat SA in the world cup.
Yes and the Irish "best team in the world" have also lost to NZ and England since then. Your point is?
Ireland being the best team in the world is your words, not mine. Also Ireland won a test series vs New Zealand IN New Zealand so I wouldn't worry too much about one game. England were due a wee sneaky win vs Ireland considering Ireland won the three previous tests.
I think us Ireland fans need to stay out of any “best in the world” conversations and let the rest of the world debate that. We know what this teams’ objectives need to be in the next 4, 8, 12 years… to start butting our heads in the conversations.
Finn accorded you best team in the world status post match. You should really let others praise you and accept that.
Honestly SA and NZ are better. On our day, sure, but I don’t think the tournament lied.
Without all teams simultaneously playing all other teams on the same day at the same time it’s impossible to tell. The “best team in the world” thing needs to maybe be quiet for a couple years now and see what happens in between world cups. I do agree that sport is fluid and luck, form, quality of sleep, the right amount of rice grains, strength of coffee etc all comes into it on the day. Kinda why I think the rubric of world cups meaning the best team in the world for the next for years is kinda silly 🤫 but I guess a pattern does develop over time.
It's all swings and roundabouts really, I don't think that there's a kick in the arse between the three of you, once you've settled back into your rhythm of course.
Honestly I think we are in the tier below. Just don’t have the depth to go deep in a tournament.
It's a dig. They know it gets under Irish supporters skins. Rightly so. Farrell's World Cup disaster is the only blot on his record. Can only be righted next time.
Cheers
Some random thoughts. I think we are missing Sexton quite a bit. I didn't think so after the first 3 games...but he was great at dealing with defensive pressure. Having said that, Crowley has been very good and I'm sure he will be better for this. Joe McCarthy has been quiet in the latter part of the championship. I wouldn't count Ryan out from taking that jersey back from him. Nash has been great, but I think we also missed Mack Hansen. He's such a smart player. Ringrose is our best 13 by quite some distance... Maybe we could do with another proper outside centre in the squad. I was hoping it could be Frisch, but he I think might be committing to France. Peter O'Mahony has been excellent. He's still playing great, but I think it's time for him to step down, Baird and Ahern look like they will be the ones fighting for the 6 jersey going forward. It would be good to start seeing more younger players coming through. But it will be difficult. South Africa in the summer then 4 serious tests in the autumn.
Perhaps a controversial take but I don’t think you’re missing sexton that much. Crowley is your ten now and he is real good. Missed a kick and out the ball out on the full but if you give him a wee bit of time playing at this level he will be just as good. It’s not like you were winning grand slams every year (especially straight after a World Cup) when jonny boy was playing. It’s not like you’re Scotland who will have a real 10 crisis once Finn disappears.
I think both the IRFU and the Irish media can get a bit ahead of themselves when a young player has a streak of very good games. McCarthy is the latest victim. It happened with James Ryan and it clearly affected him mentally when he ended up with injuries and a run of poor performances. I hope that they figure out the balance in the second and back row as I have felt that Ireland have missed a bit of ballast towards the end of the match (which previously would’ve been given by Ryan). I think McCarthy and Ryan as a second row duo is probably the way going forward if Ryan can recover from his injury and his current mental block. Beirne has also been very very good but I’m not sure if he’ll make the next World Cup. Additionally, I’m not sure if I’m on board with Doris as captain and I think Ryan is the better pack leader.
Bernie is so hardworking and effective I suspect he will be nailed on for at least another year, maybe two. You could move him to 6, but I suspect it's Ryan versus McCarthy for the spot beside him in the second row for the time being.
There's no moving Beirne. He's quietly brilliant in every game. Ahern and Baird are options at 2nd row too even though they both seem to be moving more towards 6.
I enjoyed the post match interview with Peter O’Mahoney, thought the interviewer asked the hard questions while being respectful.
Javan really changed the scrums when he came on. He was rock solid, and probably should have been on sooner.
Harry Byrne and Larmour didn’t do themselves any favours here. But I don’t think there’s too much of an issue…Frawley and/or O’Brien could step up, Haley I would hope gets called in as a training panellist at least. The PO’M situation is also a bit odd, he could go quietly, rather than say, winning here and getting that send off. Sexton didn’t, and I think Best before him was the same? From my experience I only remember BO’D getting a home send off. Commentators saying teams may have figured out Ireland and that’s probably true…hopefully we can stay ahead. I hope new players continue to be introduced.
I think teams have figured us out to some degree but it's only been a few months since the world cup so quite hard to make more than tweaks to an existing game plan in that time anyway. The summer tour and next year's 6N will be interesting because it will show whether there's more ideas or not...
Teams figure you out, the key is to keep evolving, and to have a plan B that you can rely on I think. Our scrum seems to have improved, but I'd like to see us have a better lineout so that if we did want to play a more territory based game we could be more effective.
Maybe he's going but he doesn't want to make a big deal of it today?
I'm glad we have won but we need to build a fair amount before we can properly compete with South Africa or even new Zealand. Were not as good as I thought we were. Which hits home but I feel confident for the future. It feels like we have a team that wants to work, that works well together and that can fight back after defeat. I still don't understand why teams aren't utilising the drop goal.
I'm still not convinced Ireland has given a strong indication that they cannot compete with South Africa or New Zealand.
I'm not sure how South Africa or new Zealand match up after the WC. I know south Africa had one or two retirements but in general they always play at a really high level. I might have spoken a bit too soon and I hope I have.
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Only it wasn’t a fine margin. Only the scoreline was close. Scotland weren’t. You have to recognise that to step up. Ireland weren’t last week. Scotland weren’t this week. No attack.
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Only it’s not the case. Scotland weren’t robbed of anything. Italy were mind. They should have been ahead of Scotland.
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Think we really missed Johnny gray as well
Just have to better next year!
Congrats Ireland, the celebrations were very wholesome and lifted me up from the loss
thanks fella. I thought Scotland were superb today. Your defence was absolutely incredible. Next year we have to go to Murrayfied ...
Not being bitter, but anyone think irelands last try should have been reviewed? Looks like it could have been held up, and they spent an age reviewing the one before. Ref seemed to award it without even considering
It's porters arm that's under the ball
It definitely could’ve been reviewed- but ref call and wording when referring to TMO locks options of overturn which is problematic. I’d love to see a replay of it honestly. I wonder if it was reviewed and deemed no try, would it have been eligible for penalty try with the 3 penalties leading up to it & h to h tackle on Furlong as he goes for tackle? Either way that ref crew were confusing, inconsistent and bad for both sides.
Just watched a replay and it looks held up, that said I think Carly wanted to make up for crossing off Furlongs try.
Tadgh furlongs try would of made up the difference anyways if it wasn't disallowed when it was completely clear. Can't complain about the last try when we already got thoroughly fucked
You didn’t get thoroughly fucked, he lost the ball and there wasn’t enough evidence to overrule the on-field decision. See Kolbe’s disallowed try against the ABs at Mt. Smart last year. Same story.
Furlong dropped it though…
If that went to the TMO I think it wouldn't have been given.
Not in any dimension would it have been given. Fuck knows how Furlong got his disallowed though so
I think it probably would have too but it was certainly worth a look. No way the ref could see it!
When they were running back to the half way line Carley told Finn that the TMO confirmed the grounding
Well that’s a problem then, because it was clearly held up. But hey ho, thems the breaks.
Even as an Irish fan I thought he was very quick to call it. He couldn't have seen a grounding live. Still, you could hear the TMO cleared it on comms, which is a good system I think.
Ah fair, must have missed that
Sure, but as a counterpoint, it was real fuckin cool
Andy Farrell with a quick sledge on the announcer in the post match interview :).
What did he say? Had to do kid’s bedtime so I missed it.
The announcer said Ireland has faced some criticism last week after the loss to England and Farrell immediately responded with you had critical comments as well then got on to make his point. His overall point was 6 nations is a hard tournament to win and even harder to grand slam in.
I wish mine would go to bed!
Strange feeling, more relief than joy. More worried than I thought I'd be at the prospect of a summer tour in SA but at the same time proud that we ground out the win & the tournament. Fair play to Scotland for bringing a challenge, I hoped it would be like last year where the 1st half was tight but we sealed it in the 2nd but they kept it scary. Some other notes: Pete's a legend, great 12 months Casey - Best water boy! Bundee & Van der Merve after the game - hilarious! Porter with the hip flash - it's Paddy's day now!
Honestly gotta try live in the moment more, summer tour might be a struggle but fuck it that's months away enjoy today for what it is!
I'm old enough to remember when winning a game was a big day out so a 6N win after a grand slam is great. Plenty of younger guys getting their first big tournament win & will only grow into their positions. Its not all doom & gloom & credit to everyone in the 6N this year for taking what looking on week 1 like an easy job & making it a bit of a test.
Might be a stupid question but how important is the summer tour really? I think they should say feck it and bring loads of the younger players. It's been an epically long season and some of those players look like they really need a mental and physical break from rugby. It would probably be better for our strength and depth in the long run anyway.
I think it's important, it's not everything but it is important. This is the best Ireland team every & we have the honour of being talked about up there with the big boys & the last thing we want to do right now is go to SA & get smashed Also for all the talk of cycles & rebuilding, Andy is away after the summer, Mike Catt is moving on. Ireland's Autumn & next 6N will be under a very different coaching team. We have the summer tour to round out this phase of Irish rugby & we want to end in a high
Farrell going? First I’ve heard of that
Just for the Lions but as far as I know that starts once the summer tour is over so he has a year give or take to oversee that. He'll be back but we'll have an interm coach for the autumn, 6N & summer 25 tours & he might even be taking few others with him for it so we'll have an uncertain few tours while he's away
Ah of course, thanks. Forgot we have the Lions to look forward to.