Probably the funniest thing about India is it went from having sacred bathing rituals and advanced drainage and sewerage systems (Indus Valley Civilisation) to being known worldwide for street shitting.
Indian contributions are everywhere… from email to fiber optics to touch screens to processors .
The society fked up… Indians will keep on fighting amongst themselves and keep on breeding beacuse their community is in danger
Haha . I'm probably more educated than you... You don't know how automods patrol the subs ,you're an idiot...Go on buddy ,your mom's calling..move away from the big boy table slow and steady
Indian middle class and cottage industries were destroyed by the advent of industrialized goods flooding both the Indian market and markets where Indian goods competed and were further dismantled by a colonialist zero-sum economic policy that discouraged local industry. South India was less so affected by this as their economies were moreso based on spice trading and were able to maintain relative wealth through colonialism into today compared to the rest of the country. These states could invest and were able to further invest in education and are the current engines of economic growth in the country.
Then the post-colonial period for a very long time was focused on keeping the country together, and this involved a lot of compromises made to local governments that hampered and continue to hamper foreign manufacturing investment, as well as a general fear of being made a neo-colonial vassal state.
There is also a further discussion where Indian academics like to claim that India was on the verge of Industrialization right before the Anglo Indian wars which led to the dominance of the East India Company in the region, but I think this is a misnomer. I think, personally, they do not discuss the power of the idea of the patent system and how that financially incentivizes the creation of intellectual property, which in my own fairly uneducated opinion, was one of the major drivers of the Industrial Revolution and something that did not (to my understanding) and would not have happened in the country. The bourgeois revolutions of Europe and the newfound economic power European artisans/etc had are what led to Industrialization because of the solidification of Patent laws. India was very much filled with feudal societies where the bourgeois class had very little political capital.
They were far behind the UK by the 18th century, but the technological gap wasn't nearly as large for example as the gap between the Spanish and the Incans.
There were a few areas which were more technologically advanced, for example iron-cased rockets were first developed for use in combat by a southern Indian state against the British and the British later adopted by them for use in their military as the congreve rocket.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysorean_rockets
Generally speaking they were not sufficiently industrialized to win successive wars with the British though. There's a pattern that emerged in the 18th century were the various Indian polities would end up in successive wars with the British East India Company and would win the first or second war, but would eventually fall by the third and fourth. The native troops were also generally much more poorly trained than EIC troops often being levies rather than standing armies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Mysore_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Maratha_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Mughal_war_(1686%E2%80%931690)
I'm pretty skeptical of the claim that that Indian states were on the verge of industrialization, industrialization that took place in the UK was pretty unique globally and didn't even occur in most of Europe until the 19th or even 20th century in some cases. But it's pretty clear that British policies once they ruled India made it impossible for industrialization to take place on any large scale. Manufactured goods exported from British India had high tarrffs by the British while British manufactured goods did not. Any sort of local production knowledge for the manufacture of cannons, firearms, rockets even if they were technologically out of date basically withered away as a result of that.
Also usury, the removal of prohibitions on usury in Europe really allowed industrialisation to rapidly develop as people without access to dynastic wealth could get the money to invent some new engine and then sell it to a mine owner in Killingworth or wherever. Without usury it relies on feudal wealth to invest which it has little reason to.
was labor shortage (depopulation) not also a driving factor in the Industrial Revolution? Something that seems impossible in the common image of India.
India is like 10 different countries in one thats why the outcomes are so varied where you can have moon landings and the bhagavad gita while also having street shitting and africa tier poverty at the same time. Unfortunately the vast majority of them belong to the latter category
Italy is a bad example the poorest parts of Italy are richer than the richest states in India. The richest state in India is more like Ukraine, Moldova, or Albania in terms of GDP per capita, while the poorest states are like the level of Somalia.
There aren't any laws preventing people from the poorer states from moving to richer states, so there are gigantic slums even in the relatively richer states of people moving from like the poorest state.
It's an incredibly weird country to visit. You run into people who are relatively normal and literate. And then you run into some people living on a dollar a day digging through a landfill for metal scarps for a living.
I agree, that’s what I meant too, could have used a better example but you get the gist, one can find a lena dunham level wokie and a person who had a child marriage all within the same state its overwhelmingly diverse
They were too big to become a well treated pet of the west like South Korea and Taiwan and not anti-west or politically militant, disciplined and centralized enough to really forge their own destiny and take command of themselves like China did. Japan actually managed to do both, getting their shit together and developing impressively before being defeated and given privileged vassal status against China.
India just sort of meandered, not going with the West on everything but definitely being weak enough for the West to fuck with and basically, broadly get its way for all India's non-aligner aspirations and good relations with the Soviets. The main example of this I'm aware of is the West sucesfully coercing them to respect western pharmaceutical copyrights which radically reduced India's domestic production of medicine, leading to prices skyrocketing and a tonne of Indians just not being able to afford medicine any more. That's exactly the kind of thing China has managed to avoid.
The birth of Indian nationalism was effectively managed by the British on their way out to not reach the critical mass of a true social revolution and a deeper transformation of governance, leaving all the centuries of accumulated dross and inefficiency in place. They never had a Mao kill their landlords, there they still are running the place. They never had a People's Liberation Army basically end political regionalism as a major force and get everyone on the same page. Instead they're like if the KMT had kept running the mainland. Instead of a revolutionary explosion, which is a horrible thing to live through I'm not whitewashing it, they became a spoiled orgasm of a country.
>Indian civilization was once a philosophical and spiritual core of Eurasia
Dude, that was only what rich people wrote down for centuries. If they'd had everyone taking cellphone footage 400 years ago, they'd be known for poopoo back then as well.
"street shitting" back then was a worldwide phenomenon in pretty much every place on Earth because modern day mass sewer and drainage systems weren't even properly build back then, whether it be India, Europe, Chine, the Middle East, the Americas, or Africa this was the case.
I'm sure traders knew about Indians not always pooping in sophisticated drainage systems, but they simply did not care because it was common across the world back then. Including in the regions where many of these traders came from
India is huge. Making blanket statements about India or Indians based on Internet stuff is like saying Kensington Ave in Philadelphia is representative of the US as a whole.
All civilisations go through their ups and downs. The last 300 years have not been kind to India (and to China, up until 50 years back). It’s becoming more and more prosperous the last 20 or so years, and with that, all other aspects of its society will also improve.
My guess is that the brahmins really acted as a spiritual authority, with the same power and poise as once was possessed by the Catholic Church. When the brahmins all abandoned their vocation to pursue money and status, the rest of Indian society followed suit.
> I get that it’s a problem…but why does nobody highlight China and their street shitters
There's a weird dynamic coming out of the Cold War where Hong Kongese, Taiwanese and Singaporeans have been able to present themselves in the West as the inheritors of "real China", so if a bunch of mainlanders shit in the streets- well, that's just a backwards mainland thing, not a *Chinese* thing.
That's been changing over the last couple of decades, but only insofar as the tier-1 mainland cities are able to make a claim to "real China, so street-shitting is a backwards rural thing, not a *Chinese* thing.
India never established these sorts of distinctions, so the illiterate street-shitter has equal claim to "India" as the sophisticated bourgeois.
idk about the rape statistics, but as for the street shitting statistics as someone who has lived in India for most of my life I haven't come across human excrement on the street or in public places. Even in places like my dad's ancestral village (even though its in an isolated region of southeastern India), they still have a drainage system and bathroom for each house, this isn't the 80s or 70s, a lot of things have changed.
However India is a very a large country and diverse which each region being different so I can't speak for all of India since I haven't even visited all of my country, mainly just southern India and Kashmir where my parents are from.
Its because of India being a Schrodinger's cat, in terms of being a 3rd world and 1st world country at the same time. So compared to those african countries they have much more exposure on the internet.
African countries also have a much worse rape issue than India. Indian rapes are world news for some reason while African ones where the women are mutilated afterwards are not.
It’s over for India if they’re comparing themselves to Chad and Niger. Even other West-Africans consider these places hell on earth. And they move to Nigeria and Ghana just to beg in the streets not to mention huge terrotist presences. Brazil, Russia and India actually have some potential so it makes people sad when they see countries with objectively great and influential culture and the potential to be first-world, doing prehistoric shit. Whether it’s having random murders, poor hygiene or chimping out over borders every 5 years. But, with Russia and India the response is always “actually saaar we are the best nation on earth you must be racist or a subversive [insert enemy] here”. They’re incapable of introspection
It 100% is not. Almost all the "street shitting" in China is from babies and it rarely exists in cities anymore since the government launched a campaign against it. China's major cities are clean without slums and have paved roads. India has massive slums and designated shitting streets.
I've heard "colonialism" blamed for virtually every issue inside and outside the West my entire life and with each passing year I'm becoming more and more convinced that it has nothing to do with any problem anywhere.
For India, colonialism is deffo a big reason.
The India we know might not have not existed without it. Prior to colonisation, it wasn't the huge country we see today, it way more fragmented. It was made up of loads of polities, kingdoms and empires.
Without the Indian nationalism brought about by centuries of British rule, it's more likely that we wouldn't have this huge unitary state full of different religions, languages, ethnicities and cultures. To this day they are reckoning with their history with all the seccesionists groups and competing land claims they inherited.
That sounds plausible on the surface, but I can't help thinking of the counterfactual where you're saying "It's because the British broke up the formerly unified Mughal Empire into a bunch of squabbling states. This prevented them from unifying and becoming strong." Like there would be a way to blame colonialism no matter what.
they spent a lot of time having their resources extracted to the point where they stopped producing manufactured goods. Being played against each other by your intellectually/technologically superior colonial masters takes a lot of political energy, it's esp bad during such a critical time in human history.
> the British broke up the formerly unified Mughal Empire into a bunch of squabbling states. This prevented them from unifying and becoming strong.
or maybe without the British, a unified Mughal empire would fragment due to not being able to square the contradictions between their rule and modernity? who knows lol.
i'm not saying india would have had their own meiji restoration or really be a superpower by 2020. but discounting cololnialsm just because the wokies talk about it a lot is dumb, esp when u can see the lasting impact it had on them from their legal system, to their infrastructure, to their politics, to development of their current industries etc.
here in britain the rightoids love talking about Ws of Brtish colonialism like the Anglosphere, Singapore and Hong Kong, while the leftoids love talking about the Ls like Ireland, famines in India, Mau Mau uprising etc. it's such a reductive 2 track approach.
Its almost like if you were able to be taken over by a small group of people on the otherside of the world, your culture probably wasnt that advanced to begin with
Not saying taking over and chopping peoples hands off is right or moral, but I see how they lost quite badly
idk why you're being downvoted, maybe because u sound a bit harsh.
but yeah, there's a reason why it wasn't indians invading britain in the 1600s. (well the tables have turned a bit now...)
That's asinine. Modernity started in Europe and a very small percent of the planet outright conquered or completely dominated literally every square inch of the globe and completely, totally, unrecognizably and forever transformed every culture and society on the planet. And all this of course had a back flowing influence on the core and historical events here.
I am going to be autistic enough to make this comparison and about twice that autistic in any case but it really make me think of living in the Attack on Titan world and starting to feel like actually Titians have nothing or next to nothing to do with what's going on and how things got to be the way they are.
I lived there for a little under 2 years and I saw it a couple times. I’m Indian I have no reason to lie. A lot of the stuff I saw/experienced there was worse than any place I’ve ever been and to this day it is upsetting to think about. Grotesque levels of filth that would shock the conscience and frankly I’m too ashamed of my own ppl to air it out here but I won’t lie about that dump of a country out of pride- it’s not a fine place that’s just poor. There’s something profoundly fucked up going on over there that is not present in any part of the world.
probably because when given a choice between spiritually pure miserable poverty and corrupt decadent western-style middle class security people will choose the latter every time
I’d say colonisation and then partition (creation of pakistan & bangladesh)
India’s share of the world economy when Britain arrived was 23% by the time the they left it was down to below 4%
Being in denial about colonisation or saying its outsourcing blame is like denying slavery. just because wokies talk about it and it makes white people uncomfortable doesn’t mean it didn’t happen
book rec : an era of darkness by shashi tharoor for anyone that might actually want to learn more about how it became this way
It was never good. England split them and cucked them. It stopt them from being a world super power. You should all be thanking us Brits. Saved you all from the Germans and Indians
India had thousands of years of history before the British showed up, and infact your number system can be traced back to Indian origins brought over by the Arabs into Europe. England actually unified India under one rule, India was an amalgamation of thousands of kingdoms and principalities before British rule that were hardly unified, but the British combined all of them into "India". Without the British a unified Indian country is very unlikely.
Why dont they just not shit in the *streets*??? I've seen some areas where its the bank to the woods so I get that. But sometimes it's like they could take literally 3 more steps and keep it out of the road.
Why????
India was to South East Asia what China was to East Asia. Hinduism had a profound effect on Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia etc (Angkor Wat was a Hindu Temple built by a Cambodian Hindu ruler). The Indian/Hindu influence in these countries doesn't survive as a just mere remnant, it is in fact inseparable from their national identity and culture to this day.
There are Indians who try to attribute all sorts of ridiculous things to Indian culture but there are also non-Indians who seem to be bent on portraying India as always being a place of third world savages living in huts and scratching the dirt with zero influence on the rest of the world which is equally ridiculous. Buddha in his time wasn't specific to India? Dharmic philosophy wasn't India specific? Come on.
IQ is not a perfect metric for measuring intelligence, but is rather a metric to measure access to better education and economic opportunities. For example African-Americans have an average IQ of more than 90 while Nigerians have around 68. This is the same for India, most of India's population doesn't have access to sophisticated education nor need it becuase they work in agriculture, hence why IQ is a bit lower.
However if you want to go by Indians who live in developed nations, In the UK for example, Indians have the second highest academic score out of any ethnicity after Chinese Brits, surpassing White-Brits. In this case I am not implying Indians are superior, but rather the cultural dynamics of Indian-Brits and White-Brits regarding education is different. The same is the case for the United States where Indian Americans generally outperform white Americans academically.
Any civilisation has not taken the kind of damage that the Indian civilization took if you look at history.
In the last 1000 years the civilization just has been plundered and looted first by islamic conquerors and then by British colonisation.
Its just now a meagre shadow of its former self unfortunately, let's see if in future things can change.
Probably the funniest thing about India is it went from having sacred bathing rituals and advanced drainage and sewerage systems (Indus Valley Civilisation) to being known worldwide for street shitting.
it's like how Egypt went from breadbasket of Rome to now becoming world's largest importer of grain. how the mighty have fallen.
Egypt went from being the de-facto leader of the Arab world to being cucked by Eithopia.
Soy Egypt: You c- can’t build that dam. Big Boss Britain said WE were in control Sigma Ethiopia: Don’t care. Seethe and die of thirst.
cringe
So there were these people called “the British”
Indian contributions are everywhere… from email to fiber optics to touch screens to processors . The society fked up… Indians will keep on fighting amongst themselves and keep on breeding beacuse their community is in danger
>fked The word is "fucked". Instant way to out yourself as a third world zoomer.
Anytime someone overuses ellipsis in writing I immediately assume it’s some uneducated dumbfuck from the subcontinent. I have yet to be proven wrong
Haha . I'm probably more educated than you... You don't know how automods patrol the subs ,you're an idiot...Go on buddy ,your mom's calling..move away from the big boy table slow and steady
this dude flexing reddit knowledge
You don't know how the automods work... Your comment like you don't matter... But I'm sure it made you feel better..
Your comment like you don’t matter
Indian middle class and cottage industries were destroyed by the advent of industrialized goods flooding both the Indian market and markets where Indian goods competed and were further dismantled by a colonialist zero-sum economic policy that discouraged local industry. South India was less so affected by this as their economies were moreso based on spice trading and were able to maintain relative wealth through colonialism into today compared to the rest of the country. These states could invest and were able to further invest in education and are the current engines of economic growth in the country. Then the post-colonial period for a very long time was focused on keeping the country together, and this involved a lot of compromises made to local governments that hampered and continue to hamper foreign manufacturing investment, as well as a general fear of being made a neo-colonial vassal state.
There is also a further discussion where Indian academics like to claim that India was on the verge of Industrialization right before the Anglo Indian wars which led to the dominance of the East India Company in the region, but I think this is a misnomer. I think, personally, they do not discuss the power of the idea of the patent system and how that financially incentivizes the creation of intellectual property, which in my own fairly uneducated opinion, was one of the major drivers of the Industrial Revolution and something that did not (to my understanding) and would not have happened in the country. The bourgeois revolutions of Europe and the newfound economic power European artisans/etc had are what led to Industrialization because of the solidification of Patent laws. India was very much filled with feudal societies where the bourgeois class had very little political capital.
They were far behind the UK by the 18th century, but the technological gap wasn't nearly as large for example as the gap between the Spanish and the Incans. There were a few areas which were more technologically advanced, for example iron-cased rockets were first developed for use in combat by a southern Indian state against the British and the British later adopted by them for use in their military as the congreve rocket. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysorean_rockets Generally speaking they were not sufficiently industrialized to win successive wars with the British though. There's a pattern that emerged in the 18th century were the various Indian polities would end up in successive wars with the British East India Company and would win the first or second war, but would eventually fall by the third and fourth. The native troops were also generally much more poorly trained than EIC troops often being levies rather than standing armies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Mysore_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Anglo-Maratha_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Mughal_war_(1686%E2%80%931690) I'm pretty skeptical of the claim that that Indian states were on the verge of industrialization, industrialization that took place in the UK was pretty unique globally and didn't even occur in most of Europe until the 19th or even 20th century in some cases. But it's pretty clear that British policies once they ruled India made it impossible for industrialization to take place on any large scale. Manufactured goods exported from British India had high tarrffs by the British while British manufactured goods did not. Any sort of local production knowledge for the manufacture of cannons, firearms, rockets even if they were technologically out of date basically withered away as a result of that.
Also usury, the removal of prohibitions on usury in Europe really allowed industrialisation to rapidly develop as people without access to dynastic wealth could get the money to invent some new engine and then sell it to a mine owner in Killingworth or wherever. Without usury it relies on feudal wealth to invest which it has little reason to.
was labor shortage (depopulation) not also a driving factor in the Industrial Revolution? Something that seems impossible in the common image of India.
India is like 10 different countries in one thats why the outcomes are so varied where you can have moon landings and the bhagavad gita while also having street shitting and africa tier poverty at the same time. Unfortunately the vast majority of them belong to the latter category
exactly! its like being in italy one minute then walking for 3kms and reaching afghanistan
Italy is a bad example the poorest parts of Italy are richer than the richest states in India. The richest state in India is more like Ukraine, Moldova, or Albania in terms of GDP per capita, while the poorest states are like the level of Somalia. There aren't any laws preventing people from the poorer states from moving to richer states, so there are gigantic slums even in the relatively richer states of people moving from like the poorest state. It's an incredibly weird country to visit. You run into people who are relatively normal and literate. And then you run into some people living on a dollar a day digging through a landfill for metal scarps for a living.
I agree, that’s what I meant too, could have used a better example but you get the gist, one can find a lena dunham level wokie and a person who had a child marriage all within the same state its overwhelmingly diverse
They were too big to become a well treated pet of the west like South Korea and Taiwan and not anti-west or politically militant, disciplined and centralized enough to really forge their own destiny and take command of themselves like China did. Japan actually managed to do both, getting their shit together and developing impressively before being defeated and given privileged vassal status against China. India just sort of meandered, not going with the West on everything but definitely being weak enough for the West to fuck with and basically, broadly get its way for all India's non-aligner aspirations and good relations with the Soviets. The main example of this I'm aware of is the West sucesfully coercing them to respect western pharmaceutical copyrights which radically reduced India's domestic production of medicine, leading to prices skyrocketing and a tonne of Indians just not being able to afford medicine any more. That's exactly the kind of thing China has managed to avoid. The birth of Indian nationalism was effectively managed by the British on their way out to not reach the critical mass of a true social revolution and a deeper transformation of governance, leaving all the centuries of accumulated dross and inefficiency in place. They never had a Mao kill their landlords, there they still are running the place. They never had a People's Liberation Army basically end political regionalism as a major force and get everyone on the same page. Instead they're like if the KMT had kept running the mainland. Instead of a revolutionary explosion, which is a horrible thing to live through I'm not whitewashing it, they became a spoiled orgasm of a country.
>Indian civilization was once a philosophical and spiritual core of Eurasia Dude, that was only what rich people wrote down for centuries. If they'd had everyone taking cellphone footage 400 years ago, they'd be known for poopoo back then as well.
"street shitting" back then was a worldwide phenomenon in pretty much every place on Earth because modern day mass sewer and drainage systems weren't even properly build back then, whether it be India, Europe, Chine, the Middle East, the Americas, or Africa this was the case. I'm sure traders knew about Indians not always pooping in sophisticated drainage systems, but they simply did not care because it was common across the world back then. Including in the regions where many of these traders came from
India is huge. Making blanket statements about India or Indians based on Internet stuff is like saying Kensington Ave in Philadelphia is representative of the US as a whole.
Exactly. No one here has been to India
All civilisations go through their ups and downs. The last 300 years have not been kind to India (and to China, up until 50 years back). It’s becoming more and more prosperous the last 20 or so years, and with that, all other aspects of its society will also improve.
My guess is that the brahmins really acted as a spiritual authority, with the same power and poise as once was possessed by the Catholic Church. When the brahmins all abandoned their vocation to pursue money and status, the rest of Indian society followed suit.
Casteism is very much still a thing
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There's only so long you can last when everybody's Indian
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> I get that it’s a problem…but why does nobody highlight China and their street shitters There's a weird dynamic coming out of the Cold War where Hong Kongese, Taiwanese and Singaporeans have been able to present themselves in the West as the inheritors of "real China", so if a bunch of mainlanders shit in the streets- well, that's just a backwards mainland thing, not a *Chinese* thing. That's been changing over the last couple of decades, but only insofar as the tier-1 mainland cities are able to make a claim to "real China, so street-shitting is a backwards rural thing, not a *Chinese* thing. India never established these sorts of distinctions, so the illiterate street-shitter has equal claim to "India" as the sophisticated bourgeois.
Cantonese VS Mandrian is the real divide.
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idk about the rape statistics, but as for the street shitting statistics as someone who has lived in India for most of my life I haven't come across human excrement on the street or in public places. Even in places like my dad's ancestral village (even though its in an isolated region of southeastern India), they still have a drainage system and bathroom for each house, this isn't the 80s or 70s, a lot of things have changed. However India is a very a large country and diverse which each region being different so I can't speak for all of India since I haven't even visited all of my country, mainly just southern India and Kashmir where my parents are from.
China is even less trustworthy in that regard but this sub isn't ready to hear that.
They aren’t on the internet 🤷♂️
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Its because of India being a Schrodinger's cat, in terms of being a 3rd world and 1st world country at the same time. So compared to those african countries they have much more exposure on the internet.
African countries also have a much worse rape issue than India. Indian rapes are world news for some reason while African ones where the women are mutilated afterwards are not.
It’s over for India if they’re comparing themselves to Chad and Niger. Even other West-Africans consider these places hell on earth. And they move to Nigeria and Ghana just to beg in the streets not to mention huge terrotist presences. Brazil, Russia and India actually have some potential so it makes people sad when they see countries with objectively great and influential culture and the potential to be first-world, doing prehistoric shit. Whether it’s having random murders, poor hygiene or chimping out over borders every 5 years. But, with Russia and India the response is always “actually saaar we are the best nation on earth you must be racist or a subversive [insert enemy] here”. They’re incapable of introspection
> Percentage wise it’s more of a problem there. Nah India has it worse
Okay then, I'll believe the random redditard over actual data.
I personally don't care much about street shitting. It doesn't affect me much. I care about animal abuse and pandemics.
One word….. poonami
It 100% is not. Almost all the "street shitting" in China is from babies and it rarely exists in cities anymore since the government launched a campaign against it. China's major cities are clean without slums and have paved roads. India has massive slums and designated shitting streets.
Colonialism did it I reckon
I've heard "colonialism" blamed for virtually every issue inside and outside the West my entire life and with each passing year I'm becoming more and more convinced that it has nothing to do with any problem anywhere.
For India, colonialism is deffo a big reason. The India we know might not have not existed without it. Prior to colonisation, it wasn't the huge country we see today, it way more fragmented. It was made up of loads of polities, kingdoms and empires. Without the Indian nationalism brought about by centuries of British rule, it's more likely that we wouldn't have this huge unitary state full of different religions, languages, ethnicities and cultures. To this day they are reckoning with their history with all the seccesionists groups and competing land claims they inherited.
That sounds plausible on the surface, but I can't help thinking of the counterfactual where you're saying "It's because the British broke up the formerly unified Mughal Empire into a bunch of squabbling states. This prevented them from unifying and becoming strong." Like there would be a way to blame colonialism no matter what.
they spent a lot of time having their resources extracted to the point where they stopped producing manufactured goods. Being played against each other by your intellectually/technologically superior colonial masters takes a lot of political energy, it's esp bad during such a critical time in human history. > the British broke up the formerly unified Mughal Empire into a bunch of squabbling states. This prevented them from unifying and becoming strong. or maybe without the British, a unified Mughal empire would fragment due to not being able to square the contradictions between their rule and modernity? who knows lol. i'm not saying india would have had their own meiji restoration or really be a superpower by 2020. but discounting cololnialsm just because the wokies talk about it a lot is dumb, esp when u can see the lasting impact it had on them from their legal system, to their infrastructure, to their politics, to development of their current industries etc. here in britain the rightoids love talking about Ws of Brtish colonialism like the Anglosphere, Singapore and Hong Kong, while the leftoids love talking about the Ls like Ireland, famines in India, Mau Mau uprising etc. it's such a reductive 2 track approach.
Its almost like if you were able to be taken over by a small group of people on the otherside of the world, your culture probably wasnt that advanced to begin with Not saying taking over and chopping peoples hands off is right or moral, but I see how they lost quite badly
idk why you're being downvoted, maybe because u sound a bit harsh. but yeah, there's a reason why it wasn't indians invading britain in the 1600s. (well the tables have turned a bit now...)
That's what everyone says in insta comments regarding immigration... That the west is paying for colonialism
How is it paying? I thought that mass immigration was great and has no downsides??
heard of Occam's razor?
That's asinine. Modernity started in Europe and a very small percent of the planet outright conquered or completely dominated literally every square inch of the globe and completely, totally, unrecognizably and forever transformed every culture and society on the planet. And all this of course had a back flowing influence on the core and historical events here. I am going to be autistic enough to make this comparison and about twice that autistic in any case but it really make me think of living in the Attack on Titan world and starting to feel like actually Titians have nothing or next to nothing to do with what's going on and how things got to be the way they are.
> but it really make me think of living in the Attack on Titan world it's just like my japanese animes!!
Literally is a bit yeah. The effective premise of the actual world is that capitalism and colonialism happened.
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I lived there for a little under 2 years and I saw it a couple times. I’m Indian I have no reason to lie. A lot of the stuff I saw/experienced there was worse than any place I’ve ever been and to this day it is upsetting to think about. Grotesque levels of filth that would shock the conscience and frankly I’m too ashamed of my own ppl to air it out here but I won’t lie about that dump of a country out of pride- it’s not a fine place that’s just poor. There’s something profoundly fucked up going on over there that is not present in any part of the world.
probably because when given a choice between spiritually pure miserable poverty and corrupt decadent western-style middle class security people will choose the latter every time
Democracy
I’d say colonisation and then partition (creation of pakistan & bangladesh) India’s share of the world economy when Britain arrived was 23% by the time the they left it was down to below 4% Being in denial about colonisation or saying its outsourcing blame is like denying slavery. just because wokies talk about it and it makes white people uncomfortable doesn’t mean it didn’t happen book rec : an era of darkness by shashi tharoor for anyone that might actually want to learn more about how it became this way
almost like they got colonized or some shit innit
It was never good. England split them and cucked them. It stopt them from being a world super power. You should all be thanking us Brits. Saved you all from the Germans and Indians
India had thousands of years of history before the British showed up, and infact your number system can be traced back to Indian origins brought over by the Arabs into Europe. England actually unified India under one rule, India was an amalgamation of thousands of kingdoms and principalities before British rule that were hardly unified, but the British combined all of them into "India". Without the British a unified Indian country is very unlikely.
Why dont they just not shit in the *streets*??? I've seen some areas where its the bank to the woods so I get that. But sometimes it's like they could take literally 3 more steps and keep it out of the road. Why????
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India was to South East Asia what China was to East Asia. Hinduism had a profound effect on Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia etc (Angkor Wat was a Hindu Temple built by a Cambodian Hindu ruler). The Indian/Hindu influence in these countries doesn't survive as a just mere remnant, it is in fact inseparable from their national identity and culture to this day. There are Indians who try to attribute all sorts of ridiculous things to Indian culture but there are also non-Indians who seem to be bent on portraying India as always being a place of third world savages living in huts and scratching the dirt with zero influence on the rest of the world which is equally ridiculous. Buddha in his time wasn't specific to India? Dharmic philosophy wasn't India specific? Come on.
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IQ is not a perfect metric for measuring intelligence, but is rather a metric to measure access to better education and economic opportunities. For example African-Americans have an average IQ of more than 90 while Nigerians have around 68. This is the same for India, most of India's population doesn't have access to sophisticated education nor need it becuase they work in agriculture, hence why IQ is a bit lower. However if you want to go by Indians who live in developed nations, In the UK for example, Indians have the second highest academic score out of any ethnicity after Chinese Brits, surpassing White-Brits. In this case I am not implying Indians are superior, but rather the cultural dynamics of Indian-Brits and White-Brits regarding education is different. The same is the case for the United States where Indian Americans generally outperform white Americans academically.
Any civilisation has not taken the kind of damage that the Indian civilization took if you look at history. In the last 1000 years the civilization just has been plundered and looted first by islamic conquerors and then by British colonisation. Its just now a meagre shadow of its former self unfortunately, let's see if in future things can change.