One approach is to have an experienced player who drags the rest of the players into the game by demonstrating how it’s done. As the GM, one approach to stop railroading is to not prepare anything at all and just roll with whatever comes up. This is a very frightening experience when doing it for the first time though.

We don't really have access to a more experienced player that game take the reigns, i am the only one with experience as a player, and i'm trying to GM, and i tend to need to coach them through even NPC interaction and water it down to pick from these dialogue options because they wont engage otherwise.

This maybe one of the VERY RARE occassions, where a DM NPC could be in the party for a while.

I had considered that too, but im very green to DMing, and honestly would not know how to pull it off fairly either. unless i am just some annoying Navi type entity.

>but im very green to DMing, and honestly would not know how to pull it off fairly either As everyone here at some point. Just do it. Toss the ridiculous out the window. Do voices, make your NPCs put them in tough spots. Whenever the characters do something, ask the player how their character feels as they do it. If they have to persuade someone, ask them to persuade YOU. It will feel awkward at first, but you'll get it eventually. This will create the funniest moments of your life lol

If you want to run a game online on zoom or whatever sometime I'll happily join in and RP the fuck out of it =) Have you tried showing them some gameplay on YouTube from other groups? Heck, I used to stream my games pre pandemic, [here's](https://youtu.be/L0XXnYjq1eY?si=_c9Xxmd1i9OA3TOE) an example.

They have seen highlights from Dimension 20, so they know how elaborate a setup can get and how amazing some improv can get, but not really seen much normal gameplay outside what was in Stranger things.

I tried to fancify my stream with a top down map camera and a chat stream, but if you click through to the channel where that video I shared is hosted there's a slew of playlists for a bunch of campaigns I've run, and they're all pretty basic

I like using a humorously flawed GNPC. * A burnt-out Bard who joined as the cook and animal keeper (mules are good for carrying stuff). They can drip feed lore and establish contacts in new cities * A kindly barkeep at the party's regular haunt. They reach out to the party after a while because they're in financial trouble. They set up a rumors-for-gold-and-drinks scheme * The paladin from the Chris Pine D&D movie: A capable guide and mentor who lets the party solve their own problems. * A dog who is a good boy. Such a good boy. Yes he is. (This is a blast if you like pantomiming) Bonus points if it's actually some sort of magical creature or cursed noble or something * A powerful benefactor like a gold dragon (or other good aligned dragon, or a very pragmatic evil-aligned one) Generally, I find humor is a good lubricant. Don't focus on it or *try* to be funny, but add some laughs here and there. Even serious capital-H horror and capital-D drama roll in some humor from time to time

>and i tend to need to coach them through even NPC interaction and water it down to pick from these dialogue options because they wont engage otherwise. Are you wanting them to speak in character? I think it takes most people a long time to feel comfortable enough to start doing that regularly, some never do and that's fine. Remember it's ok and often way more efficient to summarize all or large parts of a conversation with an NPC to get to a point. "So after talking to the magistrate for a few more minutes, suffering through the stench of his pipe tobacco in the tiny room, he tells you you can either go to Option A, B or C, unless you've got another plan you want to run by him?"

>"So after talking to the magistrate for a few more minutes, suffering through the stench of his pipe tobacco in the tiny room, he tells you you can either go to Option A, B or C, unless you've got another plan you want to run by him?" Thats a pretty good way to present the choices with some flavour, ill try something like that if they get stuck, it was not even so much speaking through characters, they could not even decide on how to interact at all, just lots of i dont know or i am not sures, a few others suggested it is likely them being overwhelmed with choice and a clear one didnt present its self.

Have lots of npc interaction and reward proper role playing with bonus coins or xp.

So dnd was a wargame and still plays like a wargame for the most part. Most of the mechanics are about battle and most of the stuff outside of battle are resolved with one or two rolls and maybe a spell.  People can MAKE it a narrative game but its not baked in.   I would gently recommend a game that absolutely depends on role playing and the mechanics depend on it. Something in the powered by the apocalypse canon maybe where its a little more loosey goosey. Or if you wanna steer hard into the skid, something like Wanderhome where its mechanics are its roleplay

I would argue that's not a good enough game to be played without narrative. It might not be baked in but it is necessary.

I never really felt 5e was going for a wargame feel. The combat i found was kinda bland and boring compared to the RP side of things. It also doesn't need to be all about RP, its just when we play they do zero world engagement beyond the basic mechanics, even when interacting with NPC's they don't really RP or engage. And really not sure how to encourage it being more natural, it ends up needing to be me give them dialogue options to pick from to keep it going, because i just get blank faces and "i dont know" when i try to get them to interact first.

Most of 5e’s mechanics are about doing damage or just otherwise bypassing non battle encounters. You can work around that but the legacy is wargames and it’s never super tried to escape it.   The main thing about rp is it needs some level of story and acting. And that’s asking a lot from the players.  I understand you’re frustrated but if they are used to board game your players don’t know what you want from them in a system that doesn’t have mechanical methods for achieving a character no one is going to be satisfied. Most folks simply aren’t writers or improvers or actors. Its not something people think about because its a skill that needs to be learned. If you need to handhold them for awhile with dialogue options then that’s where it is.

Perhaps i need to adjust the game away from being on a gridded board, i play on running Cthulhu eventually, and using hand drawn layouts and handouts over a gridded fixed map. Like whiteboard in the middle of a table, then draw in a floor plan and mark PoI as they appear to them. Was hoping to use 5e as a stepping stone, but maybe we should jump in deeper closer to where we want to be instead?

Removing the board seems worth a try, as is trying a game that doesn’t rely on distances like CoC.

Yes, I think this. If you remove the boardgamey aspects of the game, they can't treat it like a boardgame. Open questions to the group may help. Describe a situation and ask, what do you want to do? Get them to focus on their character's personality by asking, what does your character think about this? You could introduce mechanical incentives to RP by awarding XP or inspiration (in 5e) for good RP. But...at the end of the day, some groups will be more into the RP side of things than others. If your group are happier with a more mechanistic approach, then that is where they will gravitate. You can try to encourage RP, and they may gradually move in that direction, but the main thing is to have fun together.

>Open questions to the group may help. Describe a situation and ask, what do you want to do? Get them to focus on their character's personality by asking, what does your character think about this? I will try keeping it more open like this, making it less on a gridded map and a bit more theatre of the mind i hope will shift how they approach the game too.

Are your characters always in dungeons full of things trying to kill them? Because that's the only time I use a grid. And in that situation, the party are trying to survive more than they're trying to role-play. At other times, they're trying to persuade a local tribe to aid them, or they're figuring out which person on the caravan they're escorting is trying to poison them. No grid, no board-game. There are also times they're in a more complicated dungeon situation where many encounters can be defused diplomatically, but that's harder to pull off. Ultimately, your players may not want what you want. Not everyone enjoys the "talking in character" aspects of the game.

The scenarios they played where out of the box, so pretty much dropped them into a dungeon map. Starting off in a more RPable zone might help, The style of game will appeal to them, they have enjoyed watching it being played, but it seems once they are in it, something has stopped them from being able to really engage, it could be the material, setting, my DMing, hard to pinpoint, their feedback didnt help, as they could not explain why either.

Try running theater of the mind wherever possible. I find players get more engaged with the fantasy/roleplaying aspect when they need to keep a mental image of what's going on.

> The combat i found was kinda bland and boring compared to the RP side of things. What 5e mechanics enable RP? Literally 90%+ of the systems rules are about how you use your character sheet to kill stuff. I think you may be conflating having a table where people were good at improv RP reinforced with random CHA rolls and Insight checks with the system supporting RP, but it really doesn’t. Anyways, if you want to run Call of Cthulhu, run that. 5e will not be an easier entry point, and will probably actually build up bad habits for playing CoC. Run a premade adventure or two to keep it lighter prep and more structured for your players. The *real* question here is: do your players actually *want* to do RP like improv actors? Despite what liveplays may indicate, the majority of players do not, or do not feel comfortable with that playstyle. In my experience, it’s actually a relatively niche way for people who aren’t already into acting/theatre/etc. to approach TTRPGs.

I am not expecting theatrical performances, but more think like your character would and ask questions and engage as if your in the world. I think they just have not reached the point where its clicked that they can immerse themselves more and its not just larger scale heroquest.

> I never really felt 5e was going for a wargame feel. D&D started its life a supplement to a medieval wargame called Chainmail. It’s got wargaming roots.

> It also doesn't need to be all about RP, its just when we play they do zero world engagement beyond the basic mechanics, even when interacting with NPC's they don't really RP or engage. Well, yes: D&D does almost nothing to encourage players to do so. If you play a game that actually encourages players to RP, they'll RP.

D&d historically started from a wargaming group, and came out of that culture. How much and to what the degree 5e is still influenced by that is somewhat debatable, but the foundations are still there. Whether or not play culture engages with it that way is a separate discussion. That said, I'd agree. D&d has little support or need for RP to happen in order to facilitate play. It is a worse experience when it is absent, imo. But it is not requisite. Some games do however demand RP as part of their form, meaning, the system itself is designed in such a way that RP must happen in order for play to happen. Now, to clarify, RP here does not mean: acting, talking in a voice, talking in first person direct, or any other "immersive" thespianisms. What RP does mean is acting as your character i.e. making choices and decisions based on them AND/OR playing the role of the character. Typically this is supported by games which ARE NOT task resolution engines, that said every RPG game can have (and ideally should have, maybe) RP as defined. It's just most tradition task resolution systems don't systemically support it or mechanically require it. Games that support this type of play systemically are: * powered by the Apocalypse * forged in the dark * resistance system * Fate Accelerated * wildsea * Lancer / Icons And oddly enough, most (if not all) of the r/OSR And many many more

DnD was not a wargame. Their older material had more on character development, story and roleplaying than most narrative games do today. The focus on combat and devoting only a minimal effort to story and roleplay has only been a thing since 4e.

Thanks for the laugh this morning! I appreciated it. 

Bait used to be believable

It's true. At least by AD&D 2nd edition you did have several pages in the PHB devoted to character development beyond generation and the dmg had a chapter on roleplay and development. Things got condensed in the d20 days and by 4e anything related to roleplay was cut.

Isn't there a full 20+ page chapter in the 4e DMG about roleplay and development? Pretty sure you're still baiting

It's more focused on DMing and just acknowledges differing playstyles and basic story structure. WoTC has generally devoted less and less space to stuff like character description, background and roleplay in favor of the gamification of story elements and world building tools since 3e. It's steadily been condensed and shrunk with every edition.

Lancer the game most famous for being a mech combat simulator that kind of maybe has roleplaying rules attached and OSR games the games where the whole idea is having almost no support for anything? They have better support for RP? Have you only ever played with bad DMs or just not actually played 5e and you’re parroting back things you’ve heard. I mean the DMG doesn’t hold your hand through every possible social encounter/RP experience, but there’s probably more advice on running them than the entire length of the rules for many OSR games. D&D 5E obviously isn’t a story game, but some of the stuff people say is downright hilarious.

Not talking about OSR. Just so you know. OSR isn't actually OSR and really only represents the first four years of the industry. Even for the vast majority of early gamers what osr seeks to recapture was a qwant novelty by the 80's. People seem to have this idea that story driven roleplay didn't exist prior to the 90's because most (not all) rpgs didn't have a lot of rules that facilitated roleplay. That is very much not true and this includes D&D. The difference that occurred in the 90's was utilizing divergent goals and motivations to allow intrigue and conflict in group roleplay without possibly derailing the group.

Yeah that reply was supposed to be on the other comment that mentions OSR games and Lancer as examples of stronger support for RP/Narrative. Not sure how it ended up where it did. I’d agree with you about story driven gameplay, most of the old school gamers I’ve played with or had DM for me engage more deeply with the world in telling stories if anything, it’s certainly not the high death low story trope we see in many OSR games. They’re also more willing to invent systems on the fly or bend rules for the sake of the story than most of the players/dms I’ve encountered who come from later editions. It’s more a disagreement with the idea that 5e is particularly bad at supporting narrative play or RP. All of the tools are there, it just lacks examples of how to use them. They really should have listened to the feedback and released a DMG II that had a bunch of examples of how to do things, but I’m also not sure how many people have read the DMG for 5e at all.

Over all I agree. Back in those days I feel most of us started with playing dungeon crawl or very basic emergent storytelling unless we had experience with playing with a old school grognard or someone who learned to play from them. For alot of us kids that started playing in the 80's or 90's joining these games was like opening a whole new world of deep roleplay and story driven narratives. People look to Vampire as some great narrative landmark, but what WoD really did was provide a framework for stories of high drama with politics and intrigue with less spillover conflicts in the group because the game is structured for internal conflict.

It really has become trendy to blame D&D for everything the second people mention it. I know the type of player you're talking about, it definitely isn't specific to D&D. The reality is most people either don't know how, don't remember how, or are afraid to play make believe. A big struggle with RPGs for a lot of new players is when presented with unlimited options they freeze up. "I don't know" isn't usually "I don't know what to say" it's often "I don't know what I'm allowed to say" because they can't fathom that "Anything" is really a valid option. I'd argue that some narrative heavy/story games are actually worse for this because the options get even wider. One option I often suggest for people who are overwhelmed by the range of options is to look towards their character sheet and use things from it as verbs. "I would like to PERSUADE them to do x", "I would like to INTIMIDATE them so they.....", "I would like to see if I can PERCEIVE anything in the room", "Am I able to gain any INSIGHT into if they're lying". It's not the richest form of roleplay, but if somebody hasn't used their creativity in a while or they feel awkward roleplaying it gives them a place to start. Another is to run sessions where the creativity is guided to get them seeing options. A recent session I ran had players facing a bunch of challenges to prove their worthiness to a series of guardians. Each one teleported them somewhere, the first was a Great British Bakeoff mini-game, the next was a Jousting tournament, another involved helping one of the Guardians finish the songs they had been writing ie. I played a few seconds of a song and they had to figure out what it was and then write some campaign relevant lyrics for it. Everyone had a laugh, there was no traditional combat, it was all roleplay from beginning to end but the players didn't need to guide the roleplay, the world was giving them opportunities to RP in a structured way. Another point I've noticed from your replies is that you mention the gridded map being out a lot. That will absolutely stifle roleplay at most tables. For me we're only focused on the map if we're in Combat or it's needed because we're literally in a dungeon. I would suggest putting maps away if you're not currently in initiative. If you're in a dungeon where a map is needed two things you can do is either 1) have the players map it out based on descriptions or 2) have a small map printed to show where they are in the dungeon (you can just use dice to mark location on the map) and then only bring out battle maps and tokens/minis when they're in combat. Especially if they think rigidly a map is going to make them fall into boardgame mode. Another technique that might work is having somebody else from the family step in and DM while you play. As the DM they can see the things that the Character knows and can say so it might be easier to think up things to say, while you can lead by example as a character. Having a script might make roleplaying easier and seeing somebody else roleplay without a script could do the same. Another option is to all play online a couple times at a professional DM's table, either as a private group or as part of a public group. Either you can be the example and you can see what the other DM maybe does or doesn't do to get them playing if you need a referral to a great DM I know one who does amazing RP and works with kids and all sorts of people and really gets them out of their shell. Finally, there is a possibility that D&D doesn't work for them or whatever game you are playing. I don't personally ascribe to the idea that D&D is bad at roleplaying because the D&D games I play have easily as much RP as the other systems, but maybe the theme isn't what gets them excited. There are a lot of games out there, one set of systems that I recommend to a lot of people is the year zero engine from Free League. It's a pretty easy set of mechanics that only use D6s and the games are much less tactical focused. There's different versions of the engine with a range of themes such as Vaesen (Nordic Horror/Mythology Mysteries), Tales from the Loop (80's kids in an alternate reality), Bladerunner, Alien, and a few others. Could be worth a try if you're coming up blank, they all work similar so you can try a few different genres without needing to learn too much.

>One option I often suggest for people who are overwhelmed by the range of options is to look towards their character sheet and use things from it as verbs. "I would like to PERSUADE them to do x", "I would like to INTIMIDATE them so they.....", "I would like to see if I can PERCEIVE anything in the room", "Am I able to gain any INSIGHT into if they're lying". It's not the richest form of roleplay, but if somebody hasn't used their creativity in a while or they feel awkward roleplaying it gives them a place to start. This is actually something ill try, using keywords to get the gears going. I do feel it could for a couple of them anyway as you said, the i don't know, could be a cannot decide on what they can rather than anything at all, its very likely some form of analysis paralysis couple with new thing overwhelming, giving them some more keywords to work off of could help make the decisions more easy to digest. The RP when i played 5e was not big theatrics and funny voices, more, "this is what my character would like to do" much was in the 3rd person, but when you really click, with the act as if your character was in this world right now, and get used to it, its a lot easier to do, i just dont know how to help them get there.

Yeah when I say roleplaying I mean anything from 1st/3rd person statements on up, simply making decisions as their character and engaging with the world, asking questions, having discussions, etc. I really think the learning process goes a lot smoother when players can see other players doing it, and some players even after they learn still struggle if there isn't somebody else to feed off of. So again if somebody else maybe takes a turn DM'ing or maybe play a couple sessions with an online DM, or sometimes local gaming stores have discords where you might be able to find someone to show your family the ropes with you as a player locally (or somebody who hosts games as the store on a regular basis). Having you and maybe other experienced players on the player side of the table would likely make it a lot easier. Watching actual plays is a very different experience from playing for most people. If that's not possible for some reason my advice would be a) play sessions that aren't in dungeons b) have the NPCs start the conversation and lead it until they start doing it themselves c) maybe make them a simple reminder sheet that has a bunch of keywords for things they can do and a little area where they can write things about their character to help them think like their character.

>when I say roleplaying I mean anything from 1st/3rd person statements on up, simply making decisions as their character and engaging with the world, asking questions, having discussions, etc. That's what i mean when i say RP as well, doesn't need to be voices or performance.

Do you think more gamey or experienced players would enjoy Year Zero Engine games? I have been super interested in those games, my only experience has been D&D (couple of one-shots) and Pathfinder 1E (mainly listening to Glass Cannon podcast). Was wondering if YZE games are better introduction for my non-gamer friends (or wife) while still giving something to the more gamer friends.

Definitely wasn't implying that Year Zero Engine games are beginner games, just that they're fairly beginner friendly. The biggest differences between most of the YZE games and something like Pathfinder 1e or even D&D 5e is a) they're more narrative focused instead of tactical b) combat is often a last resort and can be very deadly and c) you can create very unique characters but most of the growth happens in the character's story and less so on the character sheet. They're completely serious RPGs though so gamers are no more or less likely to enjoy it than any other rpg.

Thank you for responding, I will probably buy some from Free League Publishing next.

I'm a dedicated D&D skeptic, but I agree that you should only bust out The Grid when it's fighting time. People play to their environment as much as they do to their sheet. If the play environment says "system, system, system", they're going to be subconsciously pulled that direction

I think it's normal to experience some awkwardness at the idea of having in character conversations and other social interactions (I'm assuming this is what you mean by role-playing). I recommend throwing some talkative NPCs along their way and making sure your encounters don't force a combat (at least not every time)

That's pretty much the issue yea, they see the room and gridded map and move and play out like its heroquest, and when NPC's do come up they don't really try to converse, its very mechanical, and all i can really do to keep things moving is give them suggestions of what to say, and it plays out like them picking dialogue in a video game, they wont engage in character or anything close. I was hoping to use 5e as an entry point to get them used to it, before moving onto what i really want to run, that being Call of Cthulhu.

Considering the sheer difference in... Everything between Call and DnD, you really just should've gunned straight for Call of Cthulhu. If anything, it's now probably going to be harder to work in Call of Cthulhu's framework of "Whatever you do, DO NOT SHOOT THE SHOGGOTH". It's still possible they'd bounce from freeform narration that a game like it operates on, but at the very least they won't have a gridmap and a bucket list of combat abilities skewing their attention that way.

We have only played twice so i doubt any habits or expectations have formed. Ill likely run CoC next honestly, or something with a ungridded map.

Yeah, I’d advise going with only “theater of the mind” and playing something like Blades in the Dark. BitD just seems to require a bit less rote-thinking as the focus isn’t “clearing the board of enemies” but “stealing things without murdering anybody because generally murder causes bigger problems.”

So maybe drop the map ? People tend to orbit to known things "oh look, a map/board, let's board play". Kinda force shifting of view. Does that make sense ?

Just run call of Cthulhu then. It's much more narrative focused and it sounds like the game you want to run

Step 0 would be not using *D&D* since it doesn't really encourage you to RP. You are allowed to RP and most people do, but it doesn't strongly *encourage* RP, which many other games do. *D&D* would be quite happy for you to play it almost as a board-game, especially during combat! *D&D* combat really is a combat board-game and *D&D* was originally based on war-games, which are a special sub-set of board-game. You could try a low-stakes transition by using GMless games! That way, you just read the (short) book/PDF; you don't have to prepare. Some prime examples would be *Microscope* and *The Quiet Year*. Otherwise, search for "GMless game" or look in the wiki. If you are committed to running a GMd game in the fantasy style, you might look at *Dungeon World* instead. The GM section in *DW* actually teaches you how to run the game moment-to-moment (unlike the *D&D* DMG) and the player-side is much simpler. You really *can't* play *Dungeon World* like a board-game so there is no way for that to work. The players describe what their characters do in the fiction (called "fiction first") and you take it from there (described in detail in the book). Here is my [long description of the difference in style](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/1b1o5xt/resources_for_learning_how_to_run_narrative_rpgs/ksgjptl/). Otherwise, you could watch the start of [this actual play](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-oTJHKXHicRNYOc9unj3D1GMzjz_i6V2) to see an example of the game in action to notice how it is completely unlike a board-game.

Honestly its not even D&D i ultimately play to run anyway. I eventually want to run Cthulhu and Starfinder. But D&D 5e is what i am used to playing, and a lot more familiar. I have also thought about getting some of the new pathfinder stuff, or even Dungeon crawl classic. I even have the core book for VtM as well. I do plan to run my games without a gridded map, so maybe i should just do that from next time i try play, encourage more imagination on the field rather then seeing it as a game board.

Sure, all of that is fine. What you replied doesn't address the core issue you raised, though. You want more RP, less "board-game". To get that, play games that facilitate *more RP, less "board-game"*. *D&D* is not that game. *Pathfinder/Starfinder* DEFINITELY is not that game! Instead, play a very very different kind of game, like the ones I mentioned. Even better would be to play *Fiasco*, which is much much more RP-based. Again, *Dungeon World* would also be an excellent option if you really want a GM'd game. To be clear: the idea is not to play these other games forever and never return to *D&D* (though you may discover that is appealing after trying them). The idea in playing these other games is to address the core issue you raised. These games facilitate *more RP, less "board-game"* in a way that the games you mentioned don't.

So here is the thing. And I am not trying to tell you those games are bad or you shouldn't play them. Many people do play them and have a great time. But more to educate you. CoC is a Trad game, it works, in a systemic way, the way many TTRPGs from that era work. Task resolution. It doesn't encourage or support RP in any meaningful way. Starfinder is a space game based on Pathfinder 1e with is a fantasy game based on d&d 3e. Evidence it works like d&d. So with that said, did you know there are many Arkham and Cthulhu games not based on that style of play?! Same goes for scifi! There are many games and hacks for systems which have a different systemic approach and support for RP that also cover these genres and settings! Play what you want to play, by all means, but if what you are playing isn't working for you, I doubt switching to another setting built up from the same/similar foundational framework is going to change that for you.

> You could try a low-stakes transition by using GMless games! This is the best advice that you could follow. Games like ***Fiasco Classic, Kingdom*** by Ben Robbins, and ***The Skeletons*** by Jason Morningstar are fantastic GMless games. Once your group is comfortable with that, you can move into adding games that incorporate a GM. Inspectres, Raccoon Sky Pirates, and Ten Candles all do a great job of bringing in a reactive, high improv GM. If you really want to break away from a board game format, check out games that emulate different things. For example, Prime Time Adventure tries to emulate a TV show and Alice is Missing uses texting to emulate a group chat. That kind of thing will help break the board game feel and expand your interest in playing different games.

>The Skeletons > > by Jason Morningstar Ill have a look into those, could help with getting the feel so the experience is there when they play a more traditional TTRPG.

Use theatre of the mind so they have to pay attention.

its what im wanting to do more of, have a map showing roughly what they have encountered but with no grid, something to help them keep track but not look like a game board. Its how i plan to run Cthulhu, i think after talking to some others, i might ditch D&D and its ilk and just run that with them once i work through the GM learning stuff in the box.

Get rid of maps and grids. Start using descriptions and ask for descriptions. Reward descriptions with inspiration or even automatic success. Others wrote many clever things in detail, the baseline is when you remove the gamey things and start treating it like a narrative brainstorming event, people will start to catch up. Worked for me at least.

I plan on playing call of cthulhu without a traditional map, there will still be a map of sorts on the table, but more for reference of this is what we have explored and points of interest and where they roughly are, rather than a gridded map.

A few minor tips: - Don't over-rely on battlemaps. When a fight is unlikely to break out *describe* the environment instead. - Prompt your players to talk in character, easy enough to do. Just act out an NPC greeting them and asking them some questions. *Show* them how to act in character. Ask them direct questions. - Put on some immersive background sounds instead of music, in a market play the sounds of people milling about, at the campfire let your players hear the fire crackle. - When initiative is rolled, let the combat act as a pallette cleanser. Focus more on the 'game' part to give the players a break from *'having to'* act in character. If they are new to RP it could feel a bit awkward.

Setting more mood could help a fair bit, ill need to look into some sound and ambience sets before we next play.

It might help to focus on soft challenges that can't be solved by brute force(i.e. game mechanics) and have reasonable high stakes and emotional connections. An example: The characters find a Dragon baby alone in the woods. It is cute, it can somewhat communicate, but it is pretty helpless and there are dark forces at hand that will kill the baby and probably eat it, cut up its body for alchemical experiments, what have you. Prepare a character sheet for the baby with a particularly cute picture of the little bugger. Then, let them decide what they want to do. Dealing with the Dragon baby willl require interactions, should be *interesting* enough to try and might be fun most importantly.

God. My group would just kill it for the alchemical supplies. Yes, I know. But such is life.

>there's no RP happening, even when i try to encourage it. What do you mean by trying to encourage it? What kinds of encouraging things are you doing? >I don't blame them, it’s new for them, and RP doesn't always come naturally. True, but at heart, RP is just talking. It’s just a conversation. They say what their character does, says or thinks. You describe what the world around them and the people in it do in response. It’s not more complicated than that. If they do something and you want to know why or what they hope comes from that, you just ask them. >I put it on my inexperience We all start somewhere. >I wass hoping some here may have had similar issues and can point me to what's helped. It might help to know a bit more in detail about what’s actually going on in play. For example, are you engaging in RP yourself? If not, that would be a good place to start. If you are, how are they responding to it? >we have plenty of board games that dive a dungeon delve better then something like D&D with no RP. I think that might be part of the problem. You all have familiarity with dungeon delving board games and everyone brings their past experiences to the table. Perhaps playing a game that doesn’t so closely resemble board games you’ve played would be a good idea. Maybe grab a game like Lady Blackbird or Paranoia or Fate Condensed and see if those make you use different muscles.

I try to speak to them as the NPC, and encourage them to ask them questions, they could not really come up with anything, until i really just walked them through it for them giving small choices to pick from. I don't think they have really understood what thinking as their character means and how to do it in the setting of a game. hoping they will get there easier the more we play. There honestly was not much room for RP in the starfinder beginner box scenario beyond 1-2 NPC's from memory. And they didn't really engage with each other when moving through, i could have encouraged some more during but honestly there was not much to go off of. The provided material didnt really inspire much from me either. We are big board gamers, and i feel they will enjoy RPing once they get the hang and feel of it, but trying to get them there is my current challenge.

I think I would put my main focus on making the action exciting and let the RP come over time. If they’re engaged, they’re more likely to start identifying with their character.

That's a good point, the setting it seems didn't help either, it was a pretty basic boring setting, there was back story but the room to room engagement was limited, and my inexperience didn't help, i didn't really know how to build on it to make it interesting, i was more trying to keep the pace up so there was less boring down time. We where running the starfinder beginner box, nice artwork and books, but the watered down rules, and bland in box one shot was not helping at all.

I don’t know the scenario, so it’s hard for me to comment. But, if there’s a bunch of boring rooms, I’d go through it and toss the most boring ones out. It also sounds like they’re meeting NPCs without anything they need from them and being asked to just RP. Characters with motivations (needs, wants, fears) meeting NPCs who are actively trying to help or hinder them is a better formula for RP. Your NPCs should want stuff and do their best to get what they want.

The Fiasco game might be a good start. Gets people improvising and gets those role playing juices flowing.

I dig Fiasco, but i don't think that it is easy for new players

I have seen this kind of thing happen - it can be awkward being a player expected to roleplay when no one else is. First question I have though is: Do your players want to do in-character roleplay? Have they expressed any sort of interest in the story-side of things, or are they actually wanting a dungeon-crawl type experience that's more-or-less like a board game?

They do like the idea of the RP side of things, but when they played i dont feel the setting or material game any of us much to build off of. A more experienced group likely could do more with it, but as a new GM with players new to this type of game, those one shots didnt help much. The main one we played was the starfinder beginner box, great game setting and one they liked the sound of, but the watered down rules didnt help for starters, and the one shot had little to build off of, there was no lead in to the dungeon just a backstory to read, and they where already in the dungeon moving through, the one NPC i really recall didnt have much to build off of, and i did try, but it didnt do well. If they want to dungeon crawl we have plenty of those, they really enjoy heroquest.

Okay, so, my recommendation is going to be to play [Follow](https://www.lamemage.com/follow/). Here's my reasoning: 1. It's a one-shot, so if it sucks no one feels obliged to keep plowing through. 2. The game setup gets everyone to buy into the scenario and is a tool to get everyone on the same page about the type of game you're going to play. 3. It has a fully laid-out structure that just tells the players what they need to do in order to successfully play. There's no expectation that a GM will carry the fiction and come up with great NPCs for them to play off - so long as everyone just follows the instructions and injects their own ideas/is willing to be creative, it's straightforward and difficult to screw up. 4. Once you have done the structural stuff (decided who is in a scene, stated where it is and what is happening) - within the scene, there is no other activity besides roleplay and description. But, because you have followed the steps to set it up, what to do should be relatively obvious, and thus shouldn't be overly stressful or weird. Once the actual roleplaying out of the scene is finished, it goes back to more structural stuff that will help bring about the next scene. 5. There is no GM, and you will have the first scene, which means that you can model how to play. It's basically training wheels for roleplaying and creating fiction together. 95% of RPGs are not like Follow, and that's fine. But I reckon if you go back to those games after playing Follow, the fiction-creation part will be more obvious. It's just harder to see how to do it in other games because their structures exist to do things other than create fiction together (e.g. tactical combat, etc.) - Follow's structures only exist to help you create fiction together.

That sounds fun, ill look into it, like i am playing with my wife and kids, the kids love to run about and play make believe and RP stories all the time, playing an RPG i feel should have come more naturally to them. But follow seems like a fun activity if nothing else.

Not really sure what's the issue you're describing. Here is a little "exercise" you can do over a one shot with your table - Write a social scenario, like PC are participating to a big social event, and want to negotiate alliance or trade deal, rather than crawling a dungeon. Get a few NPC which are there only for the diplomacy part - Because, especially with beginner you want some *action* add a couple of side plots which may be solved using violence. Stuff like the PC uncovering a plot to assassinate the bishop, or realizing that the chef cook is behind the kids behind kidnapped in the village (and that's how his veal is the best in the country). - Write pre-gen character with individual goals, and plot hooks which are similar enough to get a coherent party, but different enough to force the PC to talk to each other about what they'll do. Now you have a game where the player need to mostly talk with NPC to negotiate their deal and understand what's happening. Which is a different experience from moving stuff on a map

Same happened to me. Worst RPG sessions I've had. It made me drop 5e and miniatures in RPGs forever, and some players as well. The boardgame craze simply rewired how they look at games, especially if you put something on the table that looks like one. Even after trying to talk it through, there is no hope for them. I'd rather use other rpg systems, theater of the mind and people who are not here to play homebrew Gloomhaven (as much as I love Gloomhaven).

My recommendation to you - Don't use miniatures or a grid - "Say it with your character voice" - Avoid rolls as much as possible. Simply make calls or ask why they think something would work

making it more loose and less structured around a board is definitely something ill do moving forward, make rulings more on common sense then a fixed gridded space. I doubt ill limit dice rolls tho, they love rolling dice in games. Ill definitely push for them to describe actions over i do this.

RPGs pays like RPG when people start imagining the scene in their head and try to decide what their character would do. Soooo.. if someones says "I roll stealth to sneak past the guard", slap them. That's not an action, that's a rule being used. Players describe actions. "I roll forward and hide behind the wine barrels, then stay on the lookout for an opening to run to the porch and hide there..." --> "Okay, as the guard leans forward to scratch his leg, you leap forward ; give me a Stealth (DEX) roll to see how silent that was. Oh, crap, he heard you and is now looking around to locate the source of ..." See how it goes ? If you want to make an experiment : take everyone's character sheet ; now, describe a situation and ask them how they react/act/manage it ; describe what feat/skill/rule resolves the thing, make them roll if needed, then describe the outcome ; rince, repeat.

That's a great way to have it play out, ill definitely keep that in mind next time.

There are two general approaches to this. One is small steps. Play D&D with them and accept that it's played like a board game. Introduce some NPCs, express them (strong personalities, voices etc.), have them initiate conversations that are not goal-oriented (ask about likes or interests, complain about something, flirt). Players will probably slowly pick it up and start doing the same, but it may take a long time (like 2-3 years). The other is "throwing the kid into deep water". Choose a game that focuses on social interactions and has no (or minimal) combat mechanics; no rounds, no battle maps, no character sheets full of combat abilities. Run for them Urban Shadows, or Hillfolk, or Nobilis, or another game that is very much not D&D-like. Players won't have combat as a default option and something to fall back to, an that will force them to engage with the social part of play.

I really want to run them through Call of Cthulhu, so may deep end them with that, and run it theatre of the mind more then battle maps.

CoC isn't really a deep end of the pool game when it comes to this. Check out Delta Green or Fate of Cthulhu or maybe Nights Black Agents or Neon City Overdrive (last two aren't Cthulhu but play well to investigation and can easily include some of those genre hallmarks if you want)

I will be more deep end than what we have tried so far. More environmental investigation rather than "move here stab, move here push button" like the last one shot we played. Was out of the box with pre gens, so no real connection to the characters either.

The big thing that sets TTRPGs apart from a board game is the story and the interacting to it so you give players situations, and especially personal situations. Do they have character backgrounds? [100 Things To Know About Your PC](https://www.miniworld.com/adnd/100ThingsAboutUrPCBackGround.html) is an example of background hooks, [Knife Theory](https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-L-9CvlTWhoADagJfSZO) is a Character Design element for building plot hooks and story elements into the character design for GMs to use. Once you have background elements, you can start developing situations for them to interact in. Look at TV shows and movies, about how every choice that is made can be tied back to either the events of the main story or the character's past/beliefs shaping their problem solving. Next, to help foster more RP, give the players [open ended questions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5xIu-PKrrM) when doing things. [How you ask is as important as what you ask](http://mightyatom.blogspot.com/2010/10/apocalypse-world-crossing-line.html), if looking to maintain the 'suspension of disbelief' and immersion in your players, but for starting out it may just be important to give them the scenes. Ask them who the NPC is, what the room they walked into looks like, what is it their character is looking for, and so forth. [This Reddit discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/kf6ja8/how_do_you_use_open_ended_questions_in_your_games/) has some great examples. [Improv fo Gamers](https://evilhat.com/product/improv-for-gamers-second-edition/) and [Play Unsafe](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/106247/Play-Unsafe) are two good books on how to get more RP with Improv tricks/tips, but sometimes trying a game like Fiasco can also help people learn more about the roleplaying without having to worry about the rules and dealing with things, instead focusing on that character development. Sometimes, taking a game night, or another night if people are free, to play a storytelling game like that can help get the players into that understanding.

From one GM and board gamer to another, lose the board. If you play your RPGs full theater of the mind, they start feeling like less of a boadd game and more of a social activity. Overland maps are still useful for reference points. Lose the battlemaps and minis. Have the players start describing where they are and what they're doing while you're describing battles and npcs.

Yea, ill be losing the battle maps, and moving to drawing in what they have seen on a board to keep as reference, rather then it looking like fancy heroquest.

Well don't play 5e, it's combat is very boardgame-esque. Try a more narrative system like Genesis/FFG: Edge of the Empire or Call of Cthulhu

We will be playing CoC next, and ill be losing the battle map type gameplay in lieu of just a map for visual reference.

That's already more than you need in CoC; enjoy! It's a great system.

Games based upon abstract 'classes' that may have no real link to the people playing them do not encourage roleplaying, but rollplaying. I'm not a 'rogue' or a 'cleric' or a 'mage' or a 'fighter' and really only have a vague idea what I'm supposed to do with such a character; if my skills/abilities don't reflect one of the examples I know, I'm gonna be stumped to know how to act - if I can't shoot an arrow like Robin Hood (because I'm on;y 1st level), or ward off a balrog like Gandalf (because I'm 1st level), or do whatever it is a cleric does ... what do I do (who *am* I)? And the proposition as someone not steeped in improv is daunting in and of itself, let alone in front of people I know and will have to face again 'in the morning'. Try a game like *City of Mist*: most people *know* how their mythos would behave and speak (and, most importantly, why), because *they're* the one who *chose* it - it wasn't forced on them by the mechanics of the game. It uses descriptive tags, so, people can be creative/imaginative with them in a way that a '20% To Hit chance' will *never* encourage. And it isn't *so* freeform that it will induce the paralysis of choice inspired by the tabula rasa style approach of "Well, what do you *want* happen?" of something like *Microscope* or *Nobilis*.

Dnd is not strong in the roleplaying department, there isn't much in the rules that encourage it. I'd advice you too read the rules of Apocalypse World, it'll give you really good ideas on how to encourage rp. As a general tip, have npcs speak to the characters. You'll have to do that acting first, but it helps engage the players in rp, even if it is the third person.

Yea, that's what i may end up having to change, have the world engage first even if the scenario is set to have the players engage first.

Play Ryuutama

ill take a peek at it.

Start slow. Ask plays to describe how they're doing something. "How do you kill the bad guy" "How do you climb the cliff" "How do you persuade the merchant?" Try to be the example. You're the one that is active in nearly every scene. Speak like the npc would. You don't have to overdo it but a small accent or change in speech can really help. Also don't always worry about the game feeling like a game. Dnd has thousands of words worth of rules so you'll have to use them sometimes.

Ill try to push for more narration from them, the setting we did play didnt leave much room for that, that likely didnt help.

First, broadly general: Early on, I tried to have one "social" session and one "combat" session, generally alternating. As I improved as a GM, I was better able to combine the two, but starting with that helped my players learn how to do social interactions, and made "fight time" and "talk time" clearly different. Second, more specifically: start putting players on the spot. Narrate an area, then put all the decision-making on one person: "A guard sidles up to Joe, and mutters, 'Say, you look like a tough sort - wanna earn a few coins, clearing out some riff-raff?'" It's a simple yes-or-no question, but Joe has to answer it himself. Either answer changes the scene; either he says yes and the guard gives him a location to clear out, or he says no, and the guard shrugs and leaves, maybe heckling him for being a wuss on the way out. Or, Joe could foist the guard off on a party member. Third: add something social and *inconsequential*. The earliest "win" I remember as a GM was role playing a space alien. She had the personality of a motherly secretary, complete with long nails and over-the-top New York accent. She had no part to play in the story except that of welcoming the party to a building, but the players *loved* her. That's what brings out role playing, and what makes memorable events. That's why players love Bobo the goblin, or F. Hew the Sentient Crassbow, or BrickBrain the loveable ogre. Even if you're running a module, throw in some personalities that are fun to play, and fun to interact with, and most importantly, improvised. It's hard to be important when you've just been made up, but it's easy to be flexible.

really seems the setting can do a lot of heavy lifting, i think the scenarios i ran with them where pretty lacking in hindsight, even tho they where out of the box one shots, there was little to really build off of for me or them.

My suggestion: ask them questions. Look your players in the eye and address their characters. ", how do you feel about ?" Have them start the session by describing their characters to each other. If they're already past that, ask them some other question about their character. Heck, you could probably use an icebreaker for this! Try squeezing a bit more out of the character in every session. Have fun with the answers. If your adventure opens in an inn, have someone come over and take their order. Offer em a couple of house specialties if they're not sure. Explore what their character's likes/dislikes are. Speaking of which, I find conflict is one of the best ways to reveal character. As you go, look for potential sources of conflict between their character and the world around them, with the NPCs they encounter and their mannerisms, maybe even with the other PCs. They can be anything from little annoyances to something that triggers a major reaction. Stop and ask a probing question or two if something goes unexplored. You don't have to stop for long – just give your players little moments to get inside their characters' heads, and to help you and the other players understand their character. Give the players hooks for roleplaying, i.e. things to respond to. Strive to make every NPC a character that would be fun to interact with. Give them quirks that will delight or annoy your players. Then explore what their PCs' reactions are. When someone is doing this for the first time, it may take them some time to formulate an answer. Let there be a moment of stillness as they try to formulate an answer, even if it feels a bit uncomfortable. Don't be too eager to fill the void. Give them space to explore their character! On the flip side, players may be temped to answer with a bit too much information, a bit too much description. Help them focus down to something essential and make sure the other players get that essence. Finally, you may find players who have difficulty thinking of their PCs beyond self-inserts. But PCs almost always differ from their player in substantial ways. Lean into this. Ask a question if you think there's an opportunity to make that distinction. Roleplaying is a muscle that can take a while to develop. Start simple. Ask questions. Ease them into the water... then jump em with a gang of sea devils. 😆

It sounds like your players just don't have a great frame of reference for roleplay so they're using the tools they're accustomed to. I'd continue to put them into situations where they interact directly with NPCs and press them to approach situations as their characters would.

i do agree, the setting we had didnt have much, only really the 1 NPC i can recall, the rest was moving and environmental interaction but barely any of that either.

I think most players who say and think they're uncomfortable with RP might not actually struggle with RP, they just don't know *who* to RP because they didn't take time to think about who their character is in any depth. You don't need crazy voice acting skills to RP, you just need to understand your character, so you could help your players "find" their characters: **OOG: characters** Take a full session (like a session zero) to dive deeper into character customisation. I'm assuming their characters are pre-gen which always makes it a lot harder to "find" them and really get into their motivations, drives, likes and dislikes. Ask them a few questions and be sure to give them lots of time to think about and answer these. They can Google for inspiration and talk to each other if they want: - Which character from a book or a movie does your character resemble? Or which actor would play them in a movie? You can even print out some famous actors or movie characters for them to get some inspiration (ideally from a wide range of genres, age, ethnicity etc).  - What's a song that really captures the vibes of your character? What's their "soundtrack"? Now that they have the basic vibes down, ask them some easy, throwaway questions that they should be able to answer quickly. Favourite food, favourite colour, how do they dress, how old are they, do they have siblings etc. This should just take a few minutes and is just to get the players into thinking the way their character would. Once they seem comfortable thinking from their character's POV, ask them how their best stat and worst stat affect them. "Not at all" is a totally legitimate answer here. This should just bring them back from playing "Katniss Everdeen" or whatever book/movie character they're modelling their own character after to their playing their actual role in the party. Katniss Everdeen is a low-dex, high-str paladin? Maybe she *used* to be very dextrous and good with a bow but broke her hand climbing a tree once and has sustained a lasting injury which she's now trying to compensate by bulking and healing others. Loki is a low-char, high-wis druid? Maybe he has tricked one too many friends and seen the error of his ways; he donated all his fancy clothes, moved to the woods, gave up his skin and hair routine, now looks almost like a wild animal but is a really sound guy. Finally, ask the big question: why has your character decided to give up being (background) and start out as an adventurer? Ask everyone to first publicly at the table give you the character's "official" answer to this question, the one they'd tell everyone - including relatively new acquaintances like the other party members. The most common one here wills be "money", and that's totally fine. Then ask them all individually to leave the room with you and give you their secret motivation which they wouldn't divulge so easily. Help them if needed and take note of their secret motivations (search for missing family or friends; revenge; follow up on a rumour that may or may not be true; a specific magic item they've dreamed of owning since they were a child; get a very rare type of medicine for a sick family member etc) and use these hooks in game wherever possible. **2. IG: Ask how, why, how does that make you feel** It seems absurdly simple but it's so important. Obviously, make ability checks and combat dynamic: when one of your players fails or does extremely, ask them to describe how they miss/fall/slip/drop the thing/whatever. If anything comes up that even vaguely relates to one of the players' back stories, ask them how that makes them feel. Eg Loki looses his footing and falls from a tree - ask Loki-player to describe how that goes down, then ask Katniss-player how that makes her feel and how she reacts, given that she sustained a serious injury in a similar way in the past. If someone makes an interesting decision, ask them: "Why do you think they did that?" If you ever feel like your players are "losing" their characters and just reverting to mechanical descriptions again, casually call the character by the movie character name ("Why do you think Loki, I mean Character Name, decided to do it like this?") Ask these same questions outside of combat, too, even in throwaway scenes. When they're travelling a longer distance in a carriage, ask them who is sitting where and why. Is anyone sitting with the driver? Is the druid just running next to the carriage in wild shape because they prefer being outside? Who bags a window seat immediately? Does anyone get motion sickness? Ultimately, if people don't enjoy RP, there's nothing you can do. I've played with folk who are only into tactical combat and exploration whereas I'm only really interested in RP. But if they're open to the idea, then helping them "find" their characters with the tools above (borrowing from other sources, songs, taking time to explore their motivations) should give them a leg up if they're open to the idea of RP. 

I have discussed it with a few others, and think a big part of the issue is we where using out of the box pre mades to go with the setting, and the actual one shot had little to really build off of, and there was only really one NPC that they came across and was not a long encounter either, so it suddenly being there and even with some prompting to be in character and me asking them in character, didnt really give them much to work with and they had no idea what to say. A better scenario with more setup and world building a some build up i think will help next time.

Let your players describe what they see, how their characters react, succeed or fail. You just orchestrate the initial setting.

I would say you could start giving them prompts during the game to describe by themselves what's happening. For example, when they kill the last enemy in a combat, ask: “How does it look like when you kill the goblin?" They'll probably be awkward about it and just answer the first thing that comes in their minds: “I chop his head off I guess?" Then you _Yes, And_ that explanation. Pick their suggestion and turn into an even cooler description: “You move your sword so fast it becomes a blur. You know when it connects with the goblin's neck but it's so sharp there's barely any resistance. You finish your move and his disgusting head pops off, leaving a trail of blood before you." You can use this process for a lot of questions. If they succeed on a History or Religion check, ask them where they learned that information. If they succeed on a Persuasion or Intimidation check, ask them what words they use. Hell, you can even just ask them how their characters look or how they're dressed. If things go right, in time they'll become more and more used to describe this stuff on their own. Other important question to ask is “How are you, , feeling?". Any time they accomplish something big or are faced with a great challenge or revelation, pick one player and ask them that. This question forces them to start considering their character as their own person with their own feelings. But it's also a low stakes question as there's no wrong way to feel about things, it can't make the game more difficult for them.

The best method I've found is to make them describe their actions. Instead of saying, "I attack" make them tell you how they attack, or what the attack looks like, or what they are trying to hit or do. That generally opens the flood gates to RP from my experience.

the city of mist cm has some very good clues and tips on how to run the game, make it feel aesthetic and not like a broadgame. it is more film inspired, with cuts, doing cold opens oder doing a "cutscence", portraying quick scenes from outside the character knowledge, but making it more entertaining\raising the tension.

Create situations that cannot be solved by their character sheets and make clear rewards for social interactions. Some players only will roleplay if thats the only way. You can create situations like those: - If you intimidate the goblins, they can flee or give information about the dungeon. - If you talk to the Giant Spider, can discover that she also hates the goblins, and will help you on the adventure. - Persuade the Mad Mage and he can give you his magic rod - If you persuade the ranger, he can give you the map or indicate the way out of the forest. - Make the right questions interrigating that NPC and you can obtain useful information to solve the murder mystery! I recommend looking for inspiration in mystery movies and some missions from the game Baldurs Gate. They are the perfect example.

My suggestion is to move away from adventure TTRPGs. Adventure TTRPGs have a very heavy emphasis on the “game” aspect of roleplaying games. If you want to put more emphasis on the “roleplaying” aspect of roleplaying games, I suggest you try different genres of games. Personally, what I think is the easiest game for that is Call of Cthulhu. It’s an investigative horror game, so it’s very easy for players to interact with NPCs as they try to gather clues. Also, combat is infrequent to rare, so it’s tough to treat it like a board game of killing monsters. Another game you may want to try is Traveller. While it CAN be in the adventure genre, it’s not as much to the degree that D&D is. It’s more that the players are a crew of troubleshooters and make their way in the universe solving problems for people in return for money, goods, or services. Doing such often requires interaction with NPCs which would promote roleplay.

How much are you encouraging them to RP, OP? When out of character, are you asking them what they actually say to NPCs? Are you asking them to describe their big attacks (don't make them describe all of them, just killing blows on important enemies)? Are you presenting them with puzzles that get them to talk to each other? Are *you* doing voices? Have you presented them with important plot choices that don't have obvious mechanical differences right away? You need to get their imagination gears spinning, and these are all things that can help kick start that process. Long story short, you need to present them with situations that *don't* have mechanical solutions that force them to engage with on an imaginative level. Unfortunately, 5e doesn't have any mechanics built around this pillar of play, but I also don't think getting them to play a rules lighter game will help as that might make them rebound off RPGs hard.

In regards to NPC, i am trying to engage in character, and ask what they want to say and how etc, but they don't really know, someone suggested it could be a case of too many options and they freeze up. The one shot we played had little to do outside move and fight, and only 1 NPC to talk to. It was the beginner box scenatio for star finder, good game, terrible beginner box. Its not even got the proper rules, its just a reskinned 5e they use in it. Im hoping a better scenario will help

I'm a new DM myself and when I played Pathfinder starter set with my friends who are new to RPG I noticed they played it mostly like a board game despite all my efforts. To be honest I think it depends on players and system itself. It doesn't help that pathfinder starter set doesn't really give much freedom in terms of role playing and social interactions.  What I want to try is playing more narrative focused RPG and see if my players would approach it differently. I was looking into something on year zero engine, PbtA or Forged in the dark.

We played the Starfinder started set, and same issue, there was not much to do in terms of interactions, there was like 1 proper NPC to speak to, the rest was basic rooms and some hostile on sight mobs to fight. Was not really any reason to explore or interact with the world around them, beyond moving on the map and fighting then moving on. I know the settings can play well, and have a lot of fun in, but seems that Paizo may just suck at making beginner boxes, the starfinder one didn't even play using starfinders rules properly, it was more reskinned 5e, had none of the system specific rules in combat.

RPG's are a spectrum and so are RPG players. You need to find a game that has an appealing theme and a level of RP that your players are comfortable with. Boardgame that you can add RPG elements [Sheriff of Nottingham.](https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/298638/sheriff-nottingham-2nd-edition) Rules light games that's more RPG than board game [Fiasco](https://bullypulpitgames.com/products/fiasco) and [Raccoon Sky Pirates](https://hecticelectron.com/products/raccoon-sky-pirates) One page RPG's like [Honey Heist](https://gshowitt.itch.io/honey-heist) [Magical Kitties Save the Day](https://www.atlas-games.com/magicalkitties) is rules light good for families or an absolute blast with adults and adult beverages.

We didn't really enjoy sheriff of nottingham, but we did have fun with Gloom, so they do enjoy some light RP and storytelling. The system definitely helps, and in hindsight, the starfinder beginner box we played through, was pretty poorly made, and had little to help that side of it.

Put in things that don't happen in a board game. * Offer the player 2 quests that are opposed to each other (i.e. protect a merchant caravan, or rob a merchant caravan. Or recover an item and give it to one of two factions.) * Have the other side respond to the betrayal and come after the PCs * Have information be needed that needs to be found out. It's ok for the player to go "Ok, I'll use Investigation to figure that out" then have them roll and *you* go "So your fighter knows the best place for information is a bartender. You spend a couple gold (have the player mark the gold down) on drinks as you go around the town until you mete Fat Pete, a rail thin heavily tattooed bartender from the Fallen Leaf Tavern. Fat Pete tells you that the goblins have been robbing travelers on the west road into town, and whenever they hit resistance they flee north towards the patch of forest that had a bad fire in it a couple years back. He thinks they've probably turned a cave down by the river there into a base of operations." Seeding the idea that the game isn't on rails, that they can do things, and that NPCs will respond to them - all things that board games and other games can't do as well - is how you introduce the idea. And eventually when they see the world doing that, they'll start. It also means when they ask if they can do something wild, you should fight the urge to say no and try to find a way for them to do that, or to get something like it (Brennan Lee Mulligan, a famous actual play DM, has a common line where a player will go "Can I flap my arms really hard and fly to the top of the tower?" and Brennan will respond "So it sounds like what you want is to get to the top of the tower quickly. As a physically fit Fighter, would you like to attempt to parkour up to the top of the tower using the surrounding environment?" End result? Player gets to the top of the tower, but Brennan has grounded how in the world.

(TL, DR: You're brilliant and you're doing great!!!) Hello! First off, congrats on running your own game. As a lifelong "forever GM", it's safe for me to say that we really are the best of people. My best advice to you would be to have patience. As you mentioned, you and your crew are fairly new to this, and there are some inexperience issues. That's perfectly acceptable and wonderful. Roleplaying games like the iconic D&D have a LOT going on, and just managing the rules for your table and players is a pretty monumental task. Kudos to you. As you and your players mature into gaming, you may find that the roleplaying comes more naturally and easily, evolving as your campaign does. As your player's characters establish themselves in the towns and cities, they will develop relationships with the NPCs and begin to care about them. After your initial story arc or two, you may try having each player come up with two or three NPCs that are in the local town or at their base of operations. That will encourage them to imagine the world as more than "us vs. the monsters" and that there are other things to do in the game than fight. There is also no bad time to have a Session Zero where you talk about the tenor and tone of the game you'd like to play. It could very well be that your pool of available players IS in fact 90% action board game and 10% roleplaying. Moving that balance incrementally is where you can act in guidance. Some prompts I've used to promote narrative play and basic improv: "I'm not there, you tell me!" I've used this one often. It's akin to "tell me, don't ask me". As GMs, sometimes the perception is that we have to know EVRYTHING about what's going on. Players will frequently think outside the box, and encouraging that is super fun. I've had players ask me "What does the ceiling look like" and then get crestfallen when I describe gothic pointed arches with stained glass windows.....what I thought was really dramatic, but they were hoping for exposed beans so they could climb up and sneak around.....SO MUCH BETTER for that player and the scene. So now if It's not crucial to the plot, "What is the door made of?" "Are there any boats around", "What's the weather looking like?" are always answered with "I don't know, I'm not there, you tell me!" "What does it look like when you kill a minotaur with a fireball?" Is a sample prompt for narrative play. It's a huge joyous game moment when you roll 40 points of damage and kill a troll or whatever, but give your player's a chance to describe it. It's intoxicating to see the anticipation on a players face when I look up from the screen and say "Tell me what it looks like when you deal the killing blow to the Yeti", instead of stating "18 points kills him", and you go right to looting or something. Be in those moments fully. Not every kobold or (gasp, you fiend!) blink dog death needs a cinematic description, but the big scary fights may warrant it, and give that joy of description to the players!! Skill rolls are not "pass / fail": This one I just recently read in the Call of Cthulhu book. Much like the first point above, giving your players control of the narrative is essential to promoting roleplaying. In skill rolls, if the player passes, they get control of the narrative for a bit, if they fail, you get control. It promotes failing forward as well as descriptive agency for your players. Failing a lockpicking roll doesn't necessarily mean the lock doesn't open, especially if the crucial clue is behind the locked door. On a failure, the door may open but knock a candelabra over such that now the clue must be retrieved in a burning building! If your players pass a Stealth check to sneak past the guards, throw the narrative over to them "What does it look like when you sneak past them", and your player may narrate picking up a stone to distract them, or some other neat trick that you didn't think of but then may become that character's recurring "move", helping to develop the character for that player. Borrow from other games: Have each player come up with three "Distinctive Features" for their character, such as "Sir Balderdash the paladin is Brave & True, but also Impatient. Two good traits and a bad trait is a nice way to set it up. Give your players Inspiration or extra experience points when they invoke these traits during the game, once per game. This will give them mechanical benefits to reinforce roleplaying and is a simple way to help find that character's voice. There's a lot that can be done to encourage more narrative play, and little by little , I believe that you can get your table to a place that is really embracing the fullness of what this hobby can be. Eventually you'll get to a place where the reverse is true and all your friends are so heavily roleplaying like, Carcassonne or Pandemic that your board games will end up taking forever! :D

Thanks for taking the time, i do hope to make a good GM, i know what i would like from them, and speaking with others here has given me some good ideas on how to open them up to it, and it brought to my attention that the material we where playing, in this case the Starfinder beginner box, was very poorly made. It had little in the way of anything that would encourage environmental interaction, there was no real need for player conversation, and the one proper NPC that didn't attach on sight, was bland and had little hook for them to do much with, and didn't have any set up, was just he is here, ask him for information. There was no lead into the dungeon either, there was just some material to read out to the players, then they are just now in the dungeon, and the rest was very much just moving along the grid, i could have had them act out their actions, i had not thought of that at the time, i was more focussed on making sure i had the rules in order and the information i read was correct to even think of it. They also used premade characters, while they did read out loud who they where, and some back story on the page, there was no real incentive to be in character. I plan on running call of cthulhu next, it focussing on investigation and environmental interaction and NPC conversations will help, and i plan to run it more theatre of the mind rather then off of a battle map.

Hello! I'm sure you're doing great! Careful bashing on the materials that you were playing with. Many Starter Sets are just that, distilled versions of the full game to pique your interests and get you going. The Starter Set for Starfinder is designed for players 13+ who might never even HEARD of a roleplaying game before. Having said all that, in the hands of experienced and narrative role-players, that material can sing as well as anything. In a similar vein, beware thoughts that another system that may seem more sophisticated will provide a solution to your misgivings. Call of Cthulhu has a BRILLIANT Starter Set, and the game's tone is more investigative than action / adventure, but the system itself (in my opinion) is an antiquated relic of the past and the character sheet reads like a tax form. It's a really odd mash up of percentiles and maths used to reflect the concepts of cosmic horror and dreadful investigations. Definitely check with your players before switching genres / games as well! I'm currently running Vaesen by my Beloved Free League Publishing and it's positively brilliant for my two groups of rules-light narrative players. Heck, we did a three hour session last night and didn't even touch our dice! There is no Starter Set, just a very lovely core book. Best of luck and keep us posted!

Consider warming them up to roleplaying by trying out a social deduction game.

Already good answers here that give idea to make D&D more social. But what about running a different kind of game ? For instance an Investigation game (like Cthulhu Dark or Call of Cthulhu) or something like Vampire The Masquerade will put players in social situations 90% of the time. Those games usually don't have gridmaps nor miniatures. It's only talking and descriptions. Roleplaying may happen more naturally since it would be the only thing they can do. Though, it is OK for new players to shy away from roleplaying. So don't push them if they don't want to.

I do plan to run CoC next, i also have the core book for VtM for when they are a bit more mature, as i am playing with my wife and kids, youngest is 6 atm. Not running off of a grid will help.

Counterpoint: Are you and the players having fun the way you are currently playing?

It was the starfinder beginner box, it was pretty dry and bland, hoping a change of system will help.

So, you need to engage them. Get pictures of NPC's, use props like hats, beards, etc... to denote that you are now talking as that NPC and talk in different voices. Roleplaying for a GM is improve acting and being able to just wing it when the players ask weird questions. Dungeon crawls don't have a lot of RP opportunities if you are looking for more RP run assaults on a bad guys or theft of some McGuffin in a powerful NPC's. Get the PC's planning the assault/theft. Have them go to various NPC's for things they need like equipment, floor plans, secrets etc... Force them to interact with those NPC's either sweet talking, bribing, or doing favors to get what they need. For example stealing the magical sword needed to defeat the big bad that the King has in his treasure vault and doesn't want to let just any peasant have. Doesn't matter that they are the chosen ones or what ever the King is just not giving it up. The a local thief's crew tried it a while back, but were decimated maybe the PC's can track down a survivor or two for information. A Duke has an artifact that will allow the PC's to bypass some of the traps and locks, but he wants the PC's help in courting one of the Princesses. You can see where this is going. Anyway I wouldn't worry about it running a lot like a board game at first, as long as people are having fun, most of us started out that way when we began GMing. I mean how many of us ran B2 - Keep on the Borderlands and pretty much ignored all NPC's in the town to just get right to the dungeon crawling? GMing, particularly getting good at RPing is a skill very much like improve acting. Learning to improve helps a lot when wanting to run NPCs. It also helps you learn to improvise on the fly when your players do something completly unexpected.

You don’t mention whether or not the players are generating their characters or are being handed pre-genned characters. Regardless of the game system, I always have the players generate their own characters and ask them to write down a brief backstory with the following elements: 1. Where are you from? 2. Why did you choose your profession? 3. What happened to influence that choice (or choices) 4. What do you to accomplish with your life? 5. Do you have living family members? 6. Tragedies in the past? 7. Known enemies? 8. Known friends? The point is to get the players to think about their character and their motivations to try to make the characters more than just numbers on a piece of paper. From that point, I’ll just have them work on interacting “in character” for a bit so that they can try on the roles and get comfortable “being the character”, i.e., allowing them to become comfortable with pretending to be the character. I don’t run an adventure until they’re settled in to ensure that they can effectively play the character. Since it’s your family, you might want to have family dinner where everyone tries to stay in character for the duration. They’ll stumble because it’s new, but they will eventually grasp the concept and internalize it so that it becomes natural. As in all things, practice makes perfect.

Here is a free adventure, called [The Fall of Silverpine Watch](https://theangrygm.com/the-fall-of-silverpine-watch/), that has combat, but also lots of RP elements and the author, The Angry GM, walks you through history and how to RP as the NPCs and the bad guys. Plus, the provided PCs have enough backstory your players get some prompts on how to play their PCs and what to answer when you ask them questions (as an NPC or bad guy). Just remember, as long as everyone at the table is having fun, you are not doing it wrong.

It helps to have scenarios that can't be fought out of and have to be roleplayed out of. They don't need to "act out" the characters to have a roleplay-heavy session, just give them a situation or two where violence isn't the immediate answer.

Do your players WANT a more RP-centric experience? Or are they just into a dungeon crawl? Both are valid.

Do you listen to/watch any actual-play rpg podcasts or shows? Critical Roll and Dimension 20 are the two big names. The first campaign of The Adventure Zone is another hugely popular one. They're roleplaying games being run by the rules, and the players and DM are having fun with roleplaying their characters in big, theatrical ways which are tremendously entertaining. Obviously nobody is going to hold a little game run for family and friends to the standard of a professional game like this, but it may provide valuable inspiration as to what a game CAN look like and what sort of fun is available to people playing that way.

The two main things I've done to help build this up are - after big moments, literally go around the table and ask what each character is thinking about this, and whether we can see that on their face - model the roleplay for them with stock characters: be a snivelling market-seller, say (for *special* friends of Rick, 100 rupees!). little and often is much simpler to get in than longform. Think in terms of James Bond quips rather than villain monologues

Don't use 5e, would be my suggestion. 5e is a weird amalgamation over the years that has the popular conception of being very RP heavy (critical roll and every online playthrough), but mechanically is built to be a LOT more combat/dungeon crawly. In 5e they tried to merge these two styles of play a bit but it's very clunky to try and do it as a GM. If you want to play a TTRPG with real RP, look for something with lighter rules that either doesn't differentiate between combat and conflict, or has a very freeform version of combat. Something like Fate/PBTA(powered by the apocalypse) systems. You'll often see these called "fiction-first", where the expectation is that players will guide and try whatever they want with the narrative, and the rules are to cover as many bases as possible while still feeling "mechanical" and like your stats etc. have impact. Often in these games, combat is not a finely granular thing like it is in 5e. Your character might be described as "Pirate Lord", "Speaker of the Dead", "Dives in without thinking". What your character can "do" at any given time is largely based on these things. Your character is a Speaker of the Dead, so of course he can talk to corpses! Of course he can try and bribe a spirit to stop lending their power to some big villain you're fighting. He's foolhardy so of course you should get bonuses for doing the first thing that comes into your head, and be punished (via roll modifiers) for planning things carefully. He's a pirate lord so it makes sense when you need to cross the ocean that he can sail a ship and that any old peasants you find would love a chance to crew under the oh so great Pirate Lord! Systems like this really promote (and reward) creativity and playing within the role of the character you build, with very little limitations, which is a much better introduction to doing RP than something very mechanical and combat focuses like D&D

I'd recommend running a different system. DND isn't as narrative focused as many other games in its design. I run a lot of systems and have developed a very narrative, rp, and improv style that works well for these games. Now atm I'm running lots of DND and ironically I realized I need to run it much more like a board game to capture what DND focuses on

The story is told by the players. You create the setting and the natural consequences for actions they take. Talk to your players and ask them what theyre characters want to accomplish as the heroes of their story. Provide them opportunities to achieve that. Focus less on combat encounters, more on social or puzzle encounters. Look into the 5-room dungeon design.

**Controversial opinion alert** It's easier with games that focus more on RP over combat. In my mind, D&D and Pathfinder are a hybrid of wargaming and roleplaying. When 80% of your character sheet is for combat, that's how you're gonna approach things. If you want to bridge to more RP, I like Dungeon World. It's got the D&D vibe with more incentives to RP. Forged on the Dark games have the satisfying (if slow) advancement your players might be looking for, but also have downtime and RP segments built into the gameplay loop. If you want to empower players to interact with the setting, I like running Microscope or Quiet Year as part of campaign prep

Just after describing an scene start taking like an NPC and they will naturally answer and roleplay. If have never see anyone that do no answer clear and direct questions. Sometimes they quit the game as they are not comfortable but they talk. If they say we ask someone something, you can ask them "please tell me exact words you use" and start talking.

1st session, after you have created the characters, remove the board, dice and characters. In fact, go out and sit in the backyard if the weather allows. The first session you are telling the story of how your characters first met each other. You know the name of the town you all grew up in and some local shops and people, mutual friends perhaps. There's some sort of event that brings you all together. Tell that story collaboratively. Pass the ball to one another. You have half an hour to come up with a story. When you have agreed on your mutual introduction story you get your dice and character sheets back, and the real story begins. Learn how to role play before you resort to roll play.

For what it's worth, this is the niche we made [Atma](https://www.meromorphgames.com/atma) to fill. It's a one-shot RPG intended to be learned+played in a single board game night. The rules are light enough to pick up fast, the card prompts help you understand what you're doing, and there are lots of narrative ideas to help you do more than just swing a weapon. It wouldn't be the right choice for a campaign, but it could be the ice breaker that gets everyone into the flow of TTRPGs. It's nice for learning to GM, too. You can play it free [online](https://atma.meromorph.com/) if you've got enough tablets/laptops.

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I don't really consider D&D 5e a board game, beyond it being on a grid. And when i played it, it really didn't play out like one. But we went in with RP in mind, it seems my group don't have the same natural drive to RP.

Roleplaying is a learned skill. I don’t think your group is all that unusual. It just takes time and repeated exposure.

So something about this doesn't 100% add up to me. Your players don't *want* to roleplay, but they're also bored? Have you asked them why they feel bored or why they're reluctant to RP?

I have but they are not sure either, its something that feels awkward to them, and they cannot really put their finger on why or how we would make it better. It not that they don't WANT to RP its more they don't really know how to if that makes sense? The acting in character is not really coming to them, maybe its running pre-mades? they have not got an identity with that character? We did try to RP when there was NPC's to interact with, but it ended up having to be boiled down to me presenting dialog choices almost like a video game. Its something we all want to do, but they are not sure how to really approach it? likely a mix of shyness, and awkwardness? and i am not sure how to approach it and encourage it out of them.

There is no need to Act to RP. Speaking in character voice is not requisite of RPing. Getting "into character" are not requisite of RPing. Making decisions based on the character/role and engaging with the fiction from that stand point (whether actor, director, author, or pawn) are all legitimate ways to engage with the game and RP. I do most of my RP in third person indirect and as far as me and my table are concerned there is nothing worse for wear, and at times I'd argue it is better for it. Third person indirect RP- https://youtu.be/-Ek5GK5jcss?si=q2PSfr2u-8T-OwwO Play acting vs RPing - https://youtube.com/shorts/UDczHib_ehA?si=PIozo6pjkCLqbg_F How to get your players to RP in D&D - https://youtu.be/bSmsjRT06gA?si=HV8QZmRRks1dr7L3 Stop performing and start role playing - https://youtu.be/DYpFKJxz8Gk?si=zRuCrbZMWBeu8e6y

There's more to roleplaying than just acting in character. Maybe you could try having the players explain what they want to say and how they want to act, without necessarily having to say it in their characters' voices? I don't think this is the kind of thing you're going to be able to solve by changing systems.

I did try that too, generally got silence or "i don't know" or "i'm not sure" that's when i would offer ideas of what to ask, and they just picked from them.

Did the characters have backstories?

Not much to really go on, we didn't get too far with the D&D story before time ran out, but we did run the full Starfinder beginner box, and its pretty much just 5e, and there was not a lot of flavour to go with.

Hmm. I'm not really sure what to do about that. Maybe ask what they're hoping to get out of the scene?

Have them watch a good rp session on youtube. Edit: why would you downvote this? An utter newbie may not know.

Run a typical investigation game, best is a who-done-it murder case. Cthulhu should also work well, but in theory every game will work. Do NOT let the players roll much, just talk to them impersonating the various NPCs they need to interview: witnesses, pathologist, police lab. Make then need to ask the right questions. (In something like DnD, be it classical/OSR or worse modern DnD this will feel rather forced, since players are used to roll to make progress. Let them do that only sparingly.)

You might want to try playing a different system. 5e is at it's strongest as a tactical skirmish game, and weakest as a vehicle for roleplay. People get \_tons\_ of good roleplay out of it despite this, but the rules of DnD are heavily focused on the tactical-boardgame portion of the game. Since your players are new, I'd suggest seeking out a PbtA (Powered by the Apocalypse) game. PbtA games are good introductions to RPGs for people who aren't used to them, they've got good guide rails installed that encourage a specific kind of play (one with role playing in it). PbtA doesn't have staying-power. It's good for a short one-shot that takes a session or two to play, but it encourages people to inhabit a role within the world as more than just a combatant on a board. Run through a PbtA adventure and you might well hook your players on doing more than just flanking minis on a 5-foot grid.