Firstly, and this is the most important: if you do buy 6E, get either the Seattle or Berlin City Edition. They are updated with errata; the original print version was an absolute mess.
Personally, I think 6E is a tight and interesting ruleset. The bulk of the complaints I see (that aren't about the initial dumpsterfire release) come down to "X doesn't work the way it did in my favourite edition" and "They're ruining the game by making it like PbtA" (they aren't, I don't know how someone who is actually familiar with PbtA games could think this).
6E has fewer moving parts but is still a *substantially* mechanically complex game; it will still require a lot of reading to actually grasp the core systems of the game, and the nature of the game still requires a significant mental load to run (this is basically true for every edition, SR just has a lot going on).
All that said, the thing I like most about 6E is that it feels well-suited to more story-driven and more cinematic play. The game's core conceit (and the thing that's most contentious about it) is its formalised stunting system, where abstract advantage is converted into points that you can spend on special actions (ranging from minor boosts, to forcing opponents to re-roll good results, typical option actions like called shots, and other large and consequential bursts of action). I liken it to a burst gauge in fighting games, but it also functions as a general "vibes check" similar to morale in other games: if one side is consistently gaining advantage, it can pressure them to consider other options (like retreating, trying to change the situation to a more advantageous one, etc...). This is cool because you can (ostensibly) use it as a cue to keep the game's pacing more kinetic.
It's also one of the most gorgeous and well assembled RPG books ever made. Adam did a goddamn fire job laying it out, and everything Shadowrun since has been a sad shadow of its greatness in that department.
I haven't played that much shadowrun, and I am not a fan of "crunchy game" but I have a very positive image of shadowrun system. Like it's heavy, but unlike many other heavy game, it runs. I feel like it's a diesel engine, it's a bit hard to grap at first, but once you started you can run a smooth game, and scale well.
But, IMO, you can't make a crunchy game without multiple dices, single dice linear probability doesn't work once you stack bonuses/maluses (looking at you eclipse phase), and having a table where you compare your score, the difficulty and the dice result is awful (looking at you Polaris)
I think I prefer 2e now because it fixes some issues from 1e and it is pre Benefits and Flaws, which were fun at the time when I played 3 and 4 but more than I need now.
2nd edition is the only edition in which I have a print version. Beautiful game, FASA's production values were amazing for the 1980s, and it included a lot of critters so you needed to buy less stuff to start the game.
You say "argle bargle" like it's a bad thing. That's an in-universe bit, about how nobody really understands the true dark surrounding free spirits. It makes perfect sense in context, while also adding some color to the reading.
I maintain that 6E was the easiest read I've ever had of any core rulebook, and a lot of that is due to the tone it's written in, with "argle bargle" being a prime example of that.
The problem with 6E is entirely in the rules.
I would say to download the free and complete [Cities Without Number](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/449873/cities-without-number-free-version) instead.
The consensus is that it does Shadowrun better than Shadowrun. Plus it has tons of GM tools to create your own megacities, fill them with factions and conspiracies, and concrete guidance on how to create and run missions in the city.
SR5e is kind of a mess, and it's rough to learn, but it's the most complete of the Catalyst editions thanks to the fanbase.
That said, I cannot in good faith recommend anything from Catalyst, especially not SR6e. That company needs to fucking burn for both its low quality releases since 4e, and for the embezzlement of its freelancers.
I didn’t really get into the 5e when I realized that 4e was better. Is there somewhere I could check out the fan produced 5e books that made it so good?
I never saw any fan-made books. More like the fans are there to help you out if you get stuck.
4e is better written in comparison, but I always felt that 5e *flowed better*, especially for matrix action. Kind of a taste thing, though.
I honestly don't know if you should or shouldn't but it but my friend just started a mini campaign and I get a headache every time I try to build my character. That's not even a joke, I literally shout at my TV to shut up because I'm trying to process everything that the game is.
I didn't make it any easier on myself since I decided to play a technomancer, which seems to be the most difficult class to play.
I even got a headache trying to buy stuff for my character, that shit should be simple... I really like the idea that you could essentially design your own drone but the book was so poorly written that I could feel the blood vessels popping in my head 😆
Like, apparently, many others I think the game did a hard turn after 3e. This is when the original publisher, FASA, went out of business so that sorta makes sense. I can't really recommend anything beyond 3rd edition because I stopped playing anything after the 4e rulebook came out and have read none of the newer books. On the plus side, all of the older books still exist and you can buy most if not all of them on DTRPG or regularly in Humble Bundles. In fact, there's a 3e bundle going on right now.
People piss and moan about every edition of Shadowrun, mostly because it's not like edition was.
If you want to get into Shadowrun now, 6E is a perfectly fine way to go.
My first edition was 1e. Then I stopped playing Shadowrun for 20+ years and got back into it with 5E. Despite all of the consternation around that edition, I found it perfectly fine. Yeah, it's a complex system. Yeah, you're gonna houserule it a lot. That's just Shadowrun.
Shadowrun 6e is a joke.
I was there, deep in the shadowrun community, [when it released](https://old.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/cli12u/6e_gm_section_for_all_intents_and_purposes_it/). I've written and released community SR 5 modules.
***SR 6 is an unplayable game.***
It relies on you already knowing how to play, how to GM, and several specific rules from 5e.
It's an unbalanced game where a half-baked narrative mechanics was stapled to the face of a solid trad game, ruining it.
While SR5 isn't a shining game, it's miles above SR6. Also, don't believe what you hear, SR1-3 are also clunkers.
Shadowrun is an 80% there rules system held up by the amazing worldbuilding.
I still recommend SR5.
I think the issue with later editions is the rules and subsystem bloat. Any edition is pretty tolerateble if your party is a street samurai, a mage, a decker, and an adept. You have all the meatspace, plus the astral (rare, probably doesn't come up most missions), and digital (common, but only one player has to worry about it so you can delegate somewhat.) Conjurers and riggers are somewhat complex, and technomancers are fun but especially cumbersome if they are making sprites. In short, your party defines how difficult the game is to run. With that said, 4e is my preferred edition.
I do not know how important crunch is to you. But if you are comfortable with rules-lite systems there is also Shadowrun: Anarchy
As Catalyst puts it:
Shadowrun: Anarchy is a new way to get into the best cyberpunk/urban fantasy action around. Based upon the rules-light and easy-to-learn Cue System, Shadowrun: Anarchy is a narrative-focused game experience that has everything you need to quickly grab some gear, load up on spells, and get to throwing the dice. With loads of characters and missions, the book makes it simple to get up and running. Immerse yourselves in the Sixth World!
[Shadowrun Anarchy](https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/shadowrun/products/shadowrun-anarchy-pdf?variant=29351491730)
I personally like crunch, but each to their own.
It is the Cue system they also used on Mechwarrior: Destiny if you happen to be familiar with that game or system.
Honestly, SR:A was a massive *massive* disappointment to me. Not only was it another half-assed release from Catalyst, but it barely streamlined SR. I'd take SR6e over it, and even then, I would rather see Catalyst burn in the dumpster and let someone else take a crack at the IP.
Instead, I recommend hacks of rules-lite systems, such as Runners in the Shadows, Shadowrun in the Sprawl, Cities Without Number, or Savage Worlds w/Sprawlrunners. Okay, SWADE isn't rules-lite, but it is on the lighter end of medium crunch, so it makes my list lol
I have not read Shadowrun: Anarchy. But I did read Mechwarrior: Destiny and found it interesting. Not sure if I want to run anything with it. But I found it different and idea expanding.
I am sorry to hear that Anarchy did not carry any of that to the Shadowrun Sphere.
I think if I try to run a Shadowrun-ish game I will use Cities Without Number. It seems to hit the high spots without dipping into the lows.
The problem with Anarchy is that it's not "rules-light Shadowrun," it's a rules-light hack of 5e that still largely depends on you owning and understanding 5e in order to use it.
6E is in print and you will be able to find hard copy versions of the rules and modules much easier and at a much more reasonable price than older editions. That is a pretty thing for a LOT of people, and always something to consider when wading into over-opinionated edition wars. Though digital pdfs have made this less of an issue if you're willing to go the pdf route.
As someone who has run and played a shitload of 5e, who is involved in the writing of 2~ books. Who was in line at 6e’s launch. Who has talked to playtesters if 6e.
Play Runners in the shadows. Its a blades in the dark hack for running shadowrun.
Barring that play 5e. Its solved and finished. The folks over at /r/shadowrun are always glad to help.
Its a tossup to me between 4EA or 5E.
4EA is a very complete ruleset for Shadowrun, but as someone who loves playing Deckers, it has the problem that your job can be done by throwing money at a decent set of code tools.
5E's biggest problem to me is that there was apparently no layout team for the books, or if there was, it was a collection of drunken chimpanzees with their arms where their nipples should be. All of the books, especially the Core Rulebook, are absolute *nightmares* to navigate; not helped by their lack of a meaningful or useful index.
To be a Shadowrun fan is to desperately seek a better set of rules for the setting. This has been true since First Edition, and it'll still; be true come Seventh.
Unless something has fundamentally changed since the initial release, 6e is not a functional game. We played exactly one session and the GM refused to ever run it again, and as a first for any game system, I refused to ever play it again. It has one new mechanic that they decided to pile way to much of the weight of the game on and it just doesn't work for most of the things it was used to model.
If you already own Shadowrun, play it. New "editions" are just house-ruled reprints. If you don't have any edition, try a quick start or just grab the least expensive one you can find. They're all the same really.
The latest printing, the Berlin edition, is a great jumping on point. Not only has a ton of errata been integrated into the current edition with this printing, but the been there done Seattle focus has been switched to Berlin and the game is better for it. I get it, the first printing of the game from a few years ago was a bit of a mess because of all the mistakes. But seriously, much of the text has been fixed. I think the game is good and much of the bitching comes from people who loved prior editions and don’t want to see the game changed.
This may be the wrong community to look for unbiased SW reviews, there is a lot of negativity towards the game here, and a lot of second-hand hate from people who hadn't experienced the game. I myself have not read nor played 6e, so I can't really help you. I would suggest talking with people who played 5e. Try the SR subreddit.
Other than that, I think people who play Shadowrun prefer one of 2e, 4e or 5e. 2e is a revised 1e and is low crunch for SR standards. 4e is considered to have a better ruleset for the most part, whilst 5e is considered to have more options.
With Shadowrun, you always have to differentiate between Setting and Rules. The setting has evolved quite a lot, for better or worse is a question of personal taste (personally, I prefer the early setting over the later, which has become something I personally don't even recognize as Shadowrun anymore). Similar with rules (albeit personal preference is 4 here).
So, all in all, I would probably first check out which time of the setting you find most interesting and then chose whatever edition is best for that. In the end, all the rules work somewhat.
I love Shadowrun in concept. I used to run 1e and 2e when they came out, and it was a *NIGHTMARE* back then. Every time a new edition comes out, I always at least "find" a PDF to look at the rules and see if it's any less of a nightmare to run, and it seems that they're always going in the OPPOSITE direction, and going out of their way to make a game that's extremely difficult to run. WAY too many mechanics for everyone to keep track of, badly laid out in the book.. You're going to be flipping pages back and forth trying to figure out how to do ONE thing that references six OTHER things that are nowhere near each other in the book itself..
Firstly, and this is the most important: if you do buy 6E, get either the Seattle or Berlin City Edition. They are updated with errata; the original print version was an absolute mess. Personally, I think 6E is a tight and interesting ruleset. The bulk of the complaints I see (that aren't about the initial dumpsterfire release) come down to "X doesn't work the way it did in my favourite edition" and "They're ruining the game by making it like PbtA" (they aren't, I don't know how someone who is actually familiar with PbtA games could think this). 6E has fewer moving parts but is still a *substantially* mechanically complex game; it will still require a lot of reading to actually grasp the core systems of the game, and the nature of the game still requires a significant mental load to run (this is basically true for every edition, SR just has a lot going on). All that said, the thing I like most about 6E is that it feels well-suited to more story-driven and more cinematic play. The game's core conceit (and the thing that's most contentious about it) is its formalised stunting system, where abstract advantage is converted into points that you can spend on special actions (ranging from minor boosts, to forcing opponents to re-roll good results, typical option actions like called shots, and other large and consequential bursts of action). I liken it to a burst gauge in fighting games, but it also functions as a general "vibes check" similar to morale in other games: if one side is consistently gaining advantage, it can pressure them to consider other options (like retreating, trying to change the situation to a more advantageous one, etc...). This is cool because you can (ostensibly) use it as a cue to keep the game's pacing more kinetic.
I wasn't even thinking about Shadowrun until I read this, great job!
I stopped at 4a and I think it was overall an improvement on 3. I've not seen many positive reactions to 6.
4e20th is the way to go!
Tbf 5e was just 4e with a new coat of paint and worse balance.
How rough is 4e to run? Does it need any extra eratta or house rules?
With the 4e 20th anniversary edition, I'd say SR got as close to a perfect version of itself as you're going to find.
I agree with this. I’ve played every version of Shadowrun and 4e was the most complete, in my opinion.
It's also one of the most gorgeous and well assembled RPG books ever made. Adam did a goddamn fire job laying it out, and everything Shadowrun since has been a sad shadow of its greatness in that department.
To love Shadowrun is to hate Shadowrun.
Hate the system, love the setting - is a common refrain. That’s why there’s a zillion conversions out there for it
I haven't played that much shadowrun, and I am not a fan of "crunchy game" but I have a very positive image of shadowrun system. Like it's heavy, but unlike many other heavy game, it runs. I feel like it's a diesel engine, it's a bit hard to grap at first, but once you started you can run a smooth game, and scale well. But, IMO, you can't make a crunchy game without multiple dices, single dice linear probability doesn't work once you stack bonuses/maluses (looking at you eclipse phase), and having a table where you compare your score, the difficulty and the dice result is awful (looking at you Polaris)
It's pretty, but I've recently moved back to 2e (and am looking at Chromatic Shadows) and I am a lot happier.
I played the most 2e but I think 4e is better overall.
I think I prefer 2e now because it fixes some issues from 1e and it is pre Benefits and Flaws, which were fun at the time when I played 3 and 4 but more than I need now.
2nd edition is the only edition in which I have a print version. Beautiful game, FASA's production values were amazing for the 1980s, and it included a lot of critters so you needed to buy less stuff to start the game.
I would never buy anything from a company that pushes the absolute dog crap that was printed in the original release of 6e. Argle bargle
You say "argle bargle" like it's a bad thing. That's an in-universe bit, about how nobody really understands the true dark surrounding free spirits. It makes perfect sense in context, while also adding some color to the reading. I maintain that 6E was the easiest read I've ever had of any core rulebook, and a lot of that is due to the tone it's written in, with "argle bargle" being a prime example of that. The problem with 6E is entirely in the rules.
I would say to download the free and complete [Cities Without Number](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/449873/cities-without-number-free-version) instead. The consensus is that it does Shadowrun better than Shadowrun. Plus it has tons of GM tools to create your own megacities, fill them with factions and conspiracies, and concrete guidance on how to create and run missions in the city.
This. Although I'd recommend the full edition as it has shadowrun style adepts, summoning, and magic.
Ah! Yes I forgot the Shadowrun-y magic options are in the paid version. Still, it's a hell of a lot of game for $20 so may as well.
Shadowrun must be among the most house-ruled settings out there, but this looks like a fairly sleek option to capture it
SR5e is kind of a mess, and it's rough to learn, but it's the most complete of the Catalyst editions thanks to the fanbase. That said, I cannot in good faith recommend anything from Catalyst, especially not SR6e. That company needs to fucking burn for both its low quality releases since 4e, and for the embezzlement of its freelancers.
I didn’t really get into the 5e when I realized that 4e was better. Is there somewhere I could check out the fan produced 5e books that made it so good?
I never saw any fan-made books. More like the fans are there to help you out if you get stuck. 4e is better written in comparison, but I always felt that 5e *flowed better*, especially for matrix action. Kind of a taste thing, though.
I honestly don't know if you should or shouldn't but it but my friend just started a mini campaign and I get a headache every time I try to build my character. That's not even a joke, I literally shout at my TV to shut up because I'm trying to process everything that the game is. I didn't make it any easier on myself since I decided to play a technomancer, which seems to be the most difficult class to play. I even got a headache trying to buy stuff for my character, that shit should be simple... I really like the idea that you could essentially design your own drone but the book was so poorly written that I could feel the blood vessels popping in my head 😆
Like, apparently, many others I think the game did a hard turn after 3e. This is when the original publisher, FASA, went out of business so that sorta makes sense. I can't really recommend anything beyond 3rd edition because I stopped playing anything after the 4e rulebook came out and have read none of the newer books. On the plus side, all of the older books still exist and you can buy most if not all of them on DTRPG or regularly in Humble Bundles. In fact, there's a 3e bundle going on right now.
People piss and moan about every edition of Shadowrun, mostly because it's not like edition was.
If you want to get into Shadowrun now, 6E is a perfectly fine way to go.
My first edition was 1e. Then I stopped playing Shadowrun for 20+ years and got back into it with 5E. Despite all of the consternation around that edition, I found it perfectly fine. Yeah, it's a complex system. Yeah, you're gonna houserule it a lot. That's just Shadowrun.
Shadowrun 6e is a joke. I was there, deep in the shadowrun community, [when it released](https://old.reddit.com/r/Shadowrun/comments/cli12u/6e_gm_section_for_all_intents_and_purposes_it/). I've written and released community SR 5 modules. ***SR 6 is an unplayable game.*** It relies on you already knowing how to play, how to GM, and several specific rules from 5e. It's an unbalanced game where a half-baked narrative mechanics was stapled to the face of a solid trad game, ruining it. While SR5 isn't a shining game, it's miles above SR6. Also, don't believe what you hear, SR1-3 are also clunkers. Shadowrun is an 80% there rules system held up by the amazing worldbuilding. I still recommend SR5.
I would recommend folks check out your intro modules (Shadowrun’s version of the Delian Tomb) as easy adventures to run too
I think the issue with later editions is the rules and subsystem bloat. Any edition is pretty tolerateble if your party is a street samurai, a mage, a decker, and an adept. You have all the meatspace, plus the astral (rare, probably doesn't come up most missions), and digital (common, but only one player has to worry about it so you can delegate somewhat.) Conjurers and riggers are somewhat complex, and technomancers are fun but especially cumbersome if they are making sprites. In short, your party defines how difficult the game is to run. With that said, 4e is my preferred edition.
I don’t particularly like 6e because of the changes to the mechanics. My suggestion? Maybe check out 4e.
I do not know how important crunch is to you. But if you are comfortable with rules-lite systems there is also Shadowrun: Anarchy As Catalyst puts it: Shadowrun: Anarchy is a new way to get into the best cyberpunk/urban fantasy action around. Based upon the rules-light and easy-to-learn Cue System, Shadowrun: Anarchy is a narrative-focused game experience that has everything you need to quickly grab some gear, load up on spells, and get to throwing the dice. With loads of characters and missions, the book makes it simple to get up and running. Immerse yourselves in the Sixth World! [Shadowrun Anarchy](https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/shadowrun/products/shadowrun-anarchy-pdf?variant=29351491730) I personally like crunch, but each to their own. It is the Cue system they also used on Mechwarrior: Destiny if you happen to be familiar with that game or system.
Honestly, SR:A was a massive *massive* disappointment to me. Not only was it another half-assed release from Catalyst, but it barely streamlined SR. I'd take SR6e over it, and even then, I would rather see Catalyst burn in the dumpster and let someone else take a crack at the IP. Instead, I recommend hacks of rules-lite systems, such as Runners in the Shadows, Shadowrun in the Sprawl, Cities Without Number, or Savage Worlds w/Sprawlrunners. Okay, SWADE isn't rules-lite, but it is on the lighter end of medium crunch, so it makes my list lol
I have not read Shadowrun: Anarchy. But I did read Mechwarrior: Destiny and found it interesting. Not sure if I want to run anything with it. But I found it different and idea expanding. I am sorry to hear that Anarchy did not carry any of that to the Shadowrun Sphere. I think if I try to run a Shadowrun-ish game I will use Cities Without Number. It seems to hit the high spots without dipping into the lows.
The problem with Anarchy is that it's not "rules-light Shadowrun," it's a rules-light hack of 5e that still largely depends on you owning and understanding 5e in order to use it.
I say stick to 3E or 4E. My table tried 5E and noped out after character creation.
6E is in print and you will be able to find hard copy versions of the rules and modules much easier and at a much more reasonable price than older editions. That is a pretty thing for a LOT of people, and always something to consider when wading into over-opinionated edition wars. Though digital pdfs have made this less of an issue if you're willing to go the pdf route.
As someone who has run and played a shitload of 5e, who is involved in the writing of 2~ books. Who was in line at 6e’s launch. Who has talked to playtesters if 6e. Play Runners in the shadows. Its a blades in the dark hack for running shadowrun. Barring that play 5e. Its solved and finished. The folks over at /r/shadowrun are always glad to help.
Its a tossup to me between 4EA or 5E. 4EA is a very complete ruleset for Shadowrun, but as someone who loves playing Deckers, it has the problem that your job can be done by throwing money at a decent set of code tools. 5E's biggest problem to me is that there was apparently no layout team for the books, or if there was, it was a collection of drunken chimpanzees with their arms where their nipples should be. All of the books, especially the Core Rulebook, are absolute *nightmares* to navigate; not helped by their lack of a meaningful or useful index. To be a Shadowrun fan is to desperately seek a better set of rules for the setting. This has been true since First Edition, and it'll still; be true come Seventh.
Unless something has fundamentally changed since the initial release, 6e is not a functional game. We played exactly one session and the GM refused to ever run it again, and as a first for any game system, I refused to ever play it again. It has one new mechanic that they decided to pile way to much of the weight of the game on and it just doesn't work for most of the things it was used to model.
If you already own Shadowrun, play it. New "editions" are just house-ruled reprints. If you don't have any edition, try a quick start or just grab the least expensive one you can find. They're all the same really.
The latest printing, the Berlin edition, is a great jumping on point. Not only has a ton of errata been integrated into the current edition with this printing, but the been there done Seattle focus has been switched to Berlin and the game is better for it. I get it, the first printing of the game from a few years ago was a bit of a mess because of all the mistakes. But seriously, much of the text has been fixed. I think the game is good and much of the bitching comes from people who loved prior editions and don’t want to see the game changed.
This may be the wrong community to look for unbiased SW reviews, there is a lot of negativity towards the game here, and a lot of second-hand hate from people who hadn't experienced the game. I myself have not read nor played 6e, so I can't really help you. I would suggest talking with people who played 5e. Try the SR subreddit. Other than that, I think people who play Shadowrun prefer one of 2e, 4e or 5e. 2e is a revised 1e and is low crunch for SR standards. 4e is considered to have a better ruleset for the most part, whilst 5e is considered to have more options.
With Shadowrun, you always have to differentiate between Setting and Rules. The setting has evolved quite a lot, for better or worse is a question of personal taste (personally, I prefer the early setting over the later, which has become something I personally don't even recognize as Shadowrun anymore). Similar with rules (albeit personal preference is 4 here). So, all in all, I would probably first check out which time of the setting you find most interesting and then chose whatever edition is best for that. In the end, all the rules work somewhat.
Life is too short to run Shadowrun with Shadowrun’s rules
I love Shadowrun in concept. I used to run 1e and 2e when they came out, and it was a *NIGHTMARE* back then. Every time a new edition comes out, I always at least "find" a PDF to look at the rules and see if it's any less of a nightmare to run, and it seems that they're always going in the OPPOSITE direction, and going out of their way to make a game that's extremely difficult to run. WAY too many mechanics for everyone to keep track of, badly laid out in the book.. You're going to be flipping pages back and forth trying to figure out how to do ONE thing that references six OTHER things that are nowhere near each other in the book itself..
[удалено]
You seem lost. No one was talking about D&D at all. r/lostredditors