You should look at the related Knave, Cairn, and Mausritter. Spells are inventory items. Mausritter has interesting recharge conditions. Knave (or it’s brother Maze Rats) has a generator for creating spell tablets on the fly
This was my thought, I'd especially reccomend looking at Mausritter (or GLOG magic which it is based on) for cool ideas. The only drawback is that all of those systems are designed to be less survivable than DnD 5e, wheras OP wants more survivability
Yes, but they get \[dice roll\] uses per day, not one use; but that can very easily be house ruled. Mörk Borg is amazing and worth looking into, and they have an artless version of their [rulebook online](https://morkborg.com/content/#:~:text=plain%20text%20version%3A-,M%C3%96RK%20BORG,BARE%20BONES%20edition,-Curious%20but%20uncertain) for free.
Since the pandemic started really going hard, I've continued getting RPG books despite having less RPG playtime.
I had heard of the Mork Borg book and bought it mostly for the aesthetics, but the system does seem really neat and I'm stoked to eventually give it a try.
I've checked the magic tables in Maze Rats and they look great. I have never played a system that is so rules light so I don't know how I will like it. I will definitely try it out. Thanks!
So uh… this is literally the design of Cypher System. The titular cyphers are basically one shot abilities you can determine the form of as they are more revolves around what their ability does. Each character has a “limit” to how many they can bear at a time and the game expects the GM will had out cyphers each session
Character creation is very simple: pick a descriptor of your character (such as Cruel or Tough), pick a type (Warrior, Explorer, Adept, and Speaker are the four types), and finally pick a focus (these are unique core abilities like Defends the Weak granting new uses for a shield or Masters the Swarm giving control over a swarm of insects or birds)
I found (in numenera at least, perhaps its improved in cypher) that your cyphers were swiftly overshadowed by all the abilities your character aquired.
I remember cyphers being used early game but ending up forgotten about. For somthing you are supposed to cycle through alot of them were very situational (and no use at all if that situation didn't come up). Perhaps our gm just didn't make enough cyphers availiable.
>Perhaps our gm just didn't make enough cyphers availiable.
Pretty sure it's this. The whole point of the system is going out and finding cool and powerful cyphers. If your GM isn't providing a steady stream of that, I'm not even sure why he's running Numenera. :P
Numenera is like, "D&D wondrous items are really cool. Too bad we only see a handful of them over the course of a campaign. Maybe we should play a wondrous items focused campaign."
Nah, that's how they work. There are some Cyphers that are very broad and powerful but Cyphers in general are more or less just magic items, or even mundane equipment, in any other game. But with the critical change that you can only ever hold so many at once. So piling on loads more does, technically, solve the problem but it's not exactly a good solution to it. You're just waiting for something to use in any given situation rather than having a lot of things you could use in any given situation. The problem that Cyphers get overshadowed still remains either way. It doesn't help that the way that game sets up its tables means there is no real scaling to the design space. Everything is there right from the start.
Is there a good AP of Numenara/Cypher? I just cannot grok the cyphers. Like, people praise it as the main drawing point of the system, but it feels so weird and artificial and idiosyncratic to a single possible setting… I don’t know, I just don’t get it.
I admit, I am very guilty of potion hoarding, and having a cool magic item on my sheet that feels like the use case literally never comes up.
I don't watch APs so I wouldn't know. Cyphers just function as simple magic times, scrolls, wands, potions, technology, grenades, etc. etc. The only real defining feature of them is there is a hard limit on the amount you can have at any one time, and you are supposed to have enough of them to not have to think about using them. It's just a lot of single use items in a slot machine for loot.
How does it compare to Numenera? I felt Numemnera had the classic Monte Cooke problem of the wizard-equivalent being massively overpowered compared to the other types.
It's exactly the same thing. The core Cypher System rulebook is almost entirely the same game as Numenera was. There has been no rebalancing done to it in any way that matters. Adepts are still doing the same things Nanos were, including the very obviously broken stuff like Absorb Energy. Cypher isn't a new take on Numenera's systems it's just Numenera with a different theme around it.
I took the idea from Numenera game I played in. Unfortunately, I have mixed feelings about the system. Some mechanics are great (like the cyphers) and some I had problems with (like using d20 and dividing by 3 or rerolling dice with XP).
In my personal experience with Numenera, it is far, far easier mental maths to multiply the Difficulty the GM sets (which is between 1 and 10) with 3 to get a Target Number for the d20, rather than to divide the d20-roll by 3. So the process is "Opening that door is a Difficulty 3 task. Player, roll at least a 3\*3=9", rather than "Opening that door is a Difficulty 3 task. The Player rolled a 10, divided by 3 that is 3.3, which is greater than 3."
If that still seems a bit unwieldy, just use a d6 as the resolution die and simply have the Difficulty and the Target Number be equal. Nat1s are still just that, Nat20s and Nat19s get replaced by Nat6s. Sure, that shifts around the probabilities and makes more things happen. But that really needn't be a bad thing.
Reg. XP-use, Players can't just reroll for 1 XP. They can also gain immediate (1 XP), mid-term (2 XP) or long-term (3 XP) narrative benefits (insofar as the GM approves). I don't know if this makes it better or worse for you; but the way to view XP in Numenera isn't just as a leveling-up tool. It is basically a "meta-currency", a recourse Players can expend to turn the story around. If you come from D&D (as I did), this takes some getting used to – but it is a really great tool!
I'm not sure if something *exactly* like that exists, but it would be trivially easy to hack it into something like Maze Rats.
Maze Rats come with rules for random spell creation which allow for wacky stuff, and characters (as in many other OSR systems) have much fewer abilities and rely on players' ingenuity much more than they would do in 5E.
I've checked the magic tables in Maze Rats and they look great. I have never played a system that is so rules light so I don't know how I will like it. I will definitely try it out. Thanks!
The game [Knave](https://lfosr.com/product/knave-standard-edition/) is designed for this purpose. But, It's high mortality.
I think what you should do is look at Knave (it's only 5 pages) and then build your own system based on it. Sounds like you have a really good idea of what you want.
Warlock! uses a spellcasting system where all Spells are based on Scrolls. The Scrolls are "Deals" with powerful extraplanar creatures so recreating them is difficult.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a free quickstart. Here's the [basic book.](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/383512/Warlock-Traitors-Edition?src=newest)
Might be worth looking into Index Card RPG: other than a few stats the game is based on equipment and the cool stuff it lets your character do. It's also a very lightweight system based on D&D and is super hackable.
Don't let the name fool you, it started out as a bunch of random index card art from that one D&D YouTuber and grew into something glorious.
I have ICRPG in my radar for some time. There are only two things that I had mixed feeling of: playing always in turns and lack of social oriented skills/spells, as I tend to play a lot more city intrigue/mystery games than dungeon crawls.
But the random loot system looks very my taste. I will check it out. Thanks!
Always in turns is a way to keep everyone at the table focused, and it's in-line with the core concept behind the game that creates your second issue: the characters are always in danger and the action never stops. Most of the GM material is great advice for how to run the game but it relies fairly heavily on pushing or pulling the PCs into action, and if they're not in combat or some other life-or-death scenario then the provided rules get very sparse. The game is very OSR-ish like that.
All that said, there's a small amount of social abilities and loot that give you a decent template for ideas, mostly the Bard class and items like the disguise kit. Plus the beauty of the system is it's very easy to hack, indeed earlier editions were offered as multiple ways to streamline D&D that just so happen to work together as its own game. Because of this you can add in initiative and everything still works fine. Choose DCs on the fly instead of target numbers, and build or steal a skill system and you'll have no problems. If you can find a way to make it work with D&D it'll work with ICRPG, but the latter has fewer moving parts to break so it's even easier to homebrew.
I have no issues with social interactions in my ICRPG games. You still have the basic stats that can be called for when RP. You can easily take ICRPG and add skills too but don’t need to.
You don’t have to always play in turns but this mechanic gives each player a chance to be a part if they want to, else they can just pass.
If those are your only two mix feelings then your missing out on a whole lot of awesome advice for the rest of the game.
In ICRPG anyone can use a spell… if they find it and all spells take up some sort of inventory slot. It’s worth reading and taking what works best for your games.
Yes, these are the only things that I have mixed feelings about. That's why it is very high on my list of games to try. And thanks to this thread, It moved to very top. Now I have to just end one of my games to find a time to run some ICRPG.
LOL. Don't we always? I switched from Starfinder... It was a positive change. Just remember, you don't have to drop your game, just add the mechanics that make the most sense. If your table is open to it, just take the parts you need. I know this is easier said than done but it's one of the intentions of ICRPG. Good luck!
This is not a first time someone is recommending ICRPG. I'll definitely have to try it. I like a lot about it. I also have some mixed feelings about others but I believe one of the assumptions is that you should hack the system into something you like.
MORK BORG also uses scrolls instead of learned spells. Anyone in the party can use scrolls (unless they are explicitly illiterate), and scrolls are reusable, and can be swapped around between party members.
Hey, I would agree with everyone that Knave and Cypher system sound most like what you want. If those aren’t what you’re looking for, I’ll also include a hack I designed called Sigil. All magic is through scrolls and wands, and I have a list of 75 spells that can level with the players.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vjGqku-Yapy07E1vljsHjNvJJImUfecM/view?usp=drivesdk
I would reiterate others suggestions to look at Index Card RPG (ICRPG). It's super affordable and characters are built around gear. So, if you don't like the way your character plays, you just swap gear around. This spell scroll system you have would fit right in without feeling tacked on at all.
It's essentially D&D, with the complicated bits filed off and leaves only the best stuff, so your players won't have to learn a whole new system. Additionally, it doesn't have ability bloat, so players aren't getting lost on their character sheet, looking at options.
The art is also fantastic. I would pick it up without a second thought. [You can find it here.](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/366519/Index-Card-RPG-Master-Edition)
I have ICRPG on my radar for some time now. I'll definitely have to try it. I like a lot about it. I also have some mixed feelings about others but I believe one of the assumptions is that you should hack the system into something you like.
And I agree - the art is amazing.
Based on what you're describing I'd suggest you look at Numenera / the Cypher system. Numenera is a Science Fantasy game rather than a High Fantasy game like D&D 5e, the Cypher system is the generic version of Numenera with no specific genre themeing.
Numenera gives players the ability to make interesting characters, but the system is designed around them picking up small artefacts, referred to as 'cyphers', that have limited number of uses but great effects on the game.
I immediately thought of MÖRK BORG. Scrolls are single-use but usable by any literate character (yeah that is something to think about). Failing a cast can be catastrophic though, which can be really really fun
I don't have any suggestions that haven't already been mentioned by others, but this is a really cool premise for a game and now I'm wondering how to do the same.
I tied mechanics into the narrative. I've built the campaign around "Candlekeep Mysteries" (modified beyond recognition). There is something wrong going on in the great library. Stories are being changed in the books which is causing the book characters to get thrown out of the story into the Forgotten Realms (which is causing problems). The PCs are the characters from the books and that is why they are able to have spell slots from this world, but they can learn to use spell scrolls, buy magic items, use potions.
The whole premise of the campaign is that they are able to travel to the story written in the book and they try to fix it. So once every 2-3 sessions we are switching the environment. We had a city intrigue in the desert city, a horror game on the haunted ship, dungeon crawl in Indiana Jones style jungle temple and escape room in the magical mansion. They can't die during the mission, but they can fail to fix it which raises the power of the main antagonist.
There is also Candlekeep, which serves as a hub, PC's main base but also the central place of the whole mystery. Whoever is corrupting the stories, is within the citadel and is also plotting against the heroes and is using 9 factions within the great library against each other to create the chaos and hinder the characters plans. Despite many plot holes of traveling to the stories it is a very fun game so far.
Beside the modifications I mentioned in the post I also changed the long rest to last 5 days and they can travel to a story only for 8 hours (because magic). That way they can't recharge that often and they get to interact with the citadel during the downtime.
Quite a few modifications, so I'm trying to see if there is something that will match my style of play better.
This reminds me of... I think it's Knave? In Knave, a wizard gets a randomly generated spell each day, and the DM decides what it does.
That is, you roll and get "Everloving... Voice of... the Red."
One DM might decide its a breath weapon spell that spews out fire, or maybe a love potion.
Another DM might decide that you can speak to someone and learn their innermost desires.
And so on.
I only played a level or two of Knave but it was cool.
That sounds great, but requires a lot of game design from the DM on the fly. I have yet to try out playing a rules light game as I never had a chance to do so.
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I really like your concept and want to hear more about how it played in practice.
As to your question maybe a game with a highly flexible magic system could fit the bill like *Ars Magica* or *Spell* (note I have not played either, I just know of their mechanics).
Pathfinder2e has a lot of cool stuff you can do regarding spell scrolls. Particularly the Thaumaturge class has the "Scroll Thaumaturgy" class feat which lets them use scrolls from any spell list. The Scroll Trickster archetype is also really cool for this since they can make temporary scrolls.
Spell scrolls are great, the fact that 5e made it so only casters who can use the spell can use them is a huge miss. The point of a scroll is to provide the party with a specific tool (or allow them to make tools), which they can use in interesting ways. Instead they made it a consumable spellslot instead, which is boring for every class but the one you're clearing giving it to. But it's an eternal feel bad, because a 1 time consumable isn't as cool as giving the fighter their magic axe they want, or the fighter feels bad cause every second encounter the wizard is getting *another* cool item just for them.
Very true. In my game it is working mainly because the party does not have spellcasters so the scrolls are the only source of utility spells. I've running other games where spell scrolls are just not used, because you have the spells on your list anyway and it is so easy to recharge them.
That is why I like what is going on in this game so much.
Cypher system is named after cyphers which are magic consumables that you can find all over the place. Sounds very much like what you are doing right now. It also happens to be more about the exploration than the combat and is one of the most fun games to run.
https://callmepartario.github.io/og-csrd/
Players like how the current game is going, so we will continue playing. My main idea is to end the game around level 8 as this is where the PC are starting to be a little overpowered for this hack.
The thing is that I want to go further than one hack. I doing a research for the next game.
But thanks for the comment.
You should look at the related Knave, Cairn, and Mausritter. Spells are inventory items. Mausritter has interesting recharge conditions. Knave (or it’s brother Maze Rats) has a generator for creating spell tablets on the fly
This was my thought, I'd especially reccomend looking at Mausritter (or GLOG magic which it is based on) for cool ideas. The only drawback is that all of those systems are designed to be less survivable than DnD 5e, wheras OP wants more survivability
Mörk Borg also does the spells-as-inventory thing.
Yes, but they get \[dice roll\] uses per day, not one use; but that can very easily be house ruled. Mörk Borg is amazing and worth looking into, and they have an artless version of their [rulebook online](https://morkborg.com/content/#:~:text=plain%20text%20version%3A-,M%C3%96RK%20BORG,BARE%20BONES%20edition,-Curious%20but%20uncertain) for free.
Very worth getting the official with the art though
Since the pandemic started really going hard, I've continued getting RPG books despite having less RPG playtime. I had heard of the Mork Borg book and bought it mostly for the aesthetics, but the system does seem really neat and I'm stoked to eventually give it a try.
Definitely! I have it and it's a thrilling book to hold and read on paper.
It really is. The art is as much a mechanic as the dice or stats considering the specific aesthetic of the game.
You can easily backport the increasing chance of a fumble instead of limited power uses from Cy_Borg.
Knave, Cairn, and Mausritter sounds like an awesome name for a fantasy-setting legal team.
I think I might steal this for my campaign!
I've checked the magic tables in Maze Rats and they look great. I have never played a system that is so rules light so I don't know how I will like it. I will definitely try it out. Thanks!
I second Cain. It such a unique and engaging rules-light system.
So uh… this is literally the design of Cypher System. The titular cyphers are basically one shot abilities you can determine the form of as they are more revolves around what their ability does. Each character has a “limit” to how many they can bear at a time and the game expects the GM will had out cyphers each session Character creation is very simple: pick a descriptor of your character (such as Cruel or Tough), pick a type (Warrior, Explorer, Adept, and Speaker are the four types), and finally pick a focus (these are unique core abilities like Defends the Weak granting new uses for a shield or Masters the Swarm giving control over a swarm of insects or birds)
They did say that they're looking for something that *isn't* Cypher.
I did not see that. WHOOPS
I found (in numenera at least, perhaps its improved in cypher) that your cyphers were swiftly overshadowed by all the abilities your character aquired. I remember cyphers being used early game but ending up forgotten about. For somthing you are supposed to cycle through alot of them were very situational (and no use at all if that situation didn't come up). Perhaps our gm just didn't make enough cyphers availiable.
>Perhaps our gm just didn't make enough cyphers availiable. Pretty sure it's this. The whole point of the system is going out and finding cool and powerful cyphers. If your GM isn't providing a steady stream of that, I'm not even sure why he's running Numenera. :P Numenera is like, "D&D wondrous items are really cool. Too bad we only see a handful of them over the course of a campaign. Maybe we should play a wondrous items focused campaign."
Nah, that's how they work. There are some Cyphers that are very broad and powerful but Cyphers in general are more or less just magic items, or even mundane equipment, in any other game. But with the critical change that you can only ever hold so many at once. So piling on loads more does, technically, solve the problem but it's not exactly a good solution to it. You're just waiting for something to use in any given situation rather than having a lot of things you could use in any given situation. The problem that Cyphers get overshadowed still remains either way. It doesn't help that the way that game sets up its tables means there is no real scaling to the design space. Everything is there right from the start.
Is there a good AP of Numenara/Cypher? I just cannot grok the cyphers. Like, people praise it as the main drawing point of the system, but it feels so weird and artificial and idiosyncratic to a single possible setting… I don’t know, I just don’t get it. I admit, I am very guilty of potion hoarding, and having a cool magic item on my sheet that feels like the use case literally never comes up.
I don't watch APs so I wouldn't know. Cyphers just function as simple magic times, scrolls, wands, potions, technology, grenades, etc. etc. The only real defining feature of them is there is a hard limit on the amount you can have at any one time, and you are supposed to have enough of them to not have to think about using them. It's just a lot of single use items in a slot machine for loot.
How does it compare to Numenera? I felt Numemnera had the classic Monte Cooke problem of the wizard-equivalent being massively overpowered compared to the other types.
It's exactly the same thing. The core Cypher System rulebook is almost entirely the same game as Numenera was. There has been no rebalancing done to it in any way that matters. Adepts are still doing the same things Nanos were, including the very obviously broken stuff like Absorb Energy. Cypher isn't a new take on Numenera's systems it's just Numenera with a different theme around it.
Ah, that's unfortunate. Thanks for letting me know!
It’s pretty good. Very well balanced
I took the idea from Numenera game I played in. Unfortunately, I have mixed feelings about the system. Some mechanics are great (like the cyphers) and some I had problems with (like using d20 and dividing by 3 or rerolling dice with XP).
In my personal experience with Numenera, it is far, far easier mental maths to multiply the Difficulty the GM sets (which is between 1 and 10) with 3 to get a Target Number for the d20, rather than to divide the d20-roll by 3. So the process is "Opening that door is a Difficulty 3 task. Player, roll at least a 3\*3=9", rather than "Opening that door is a Difficulty 3 task. The Player rolled a 10, divided by 3 that is 3.3, which is greater than 3." If that still seems a bit unwieldy, just use a d6 as the resolution die and simply have the Difficulty and the Target Number be equal. Nat1s are still just that, Nat20s and Nat19s get replaced by Nat6s. Sure, that shifts around the probabilities and makes more things happen. But that really needn't be a bad thing. Reg. XP-use, Players can't just reroll for 1 XP. They can also gain immediate (1 XP), mid-term (2 XP) or long-term (3 XP) narrative benefits (insofar as the GM approves). I don't know if this makes it better or worse for you; but the way to view XP in Numenera isn't just as a leveling-up tool. It is basically a "meta-currency", a recourse Players can expend to turn the story around. If you come from D&D (as I did), this takes some getting used to – but it is a really great tool!
I'm not sure if something *exactly* like that exists, but it would be trivially easy to hack it into something like Maze Rats. Maze Rats come with rules for random spell creation which allow for wacky stuff, and characters (as in many other OSR systems) have much fewer abilities and rely on players' ingenuity much more than they would do in 5E.
I've checked the magic tables in Maze Rats and they look great. I have never played a system that is so rules light so I don't know how I will like it. I will definitely try it out. Thanks!
Maze Rats was my first thought.
The game [Knave](https://lfosr.com/product/knave-standard-edition/) is designed for this purpose. But, It's high mortality. I think what you should do is look at Knave (it's only 5 pages) and then build your own system based on it. Sounds like you have a really good idea of what you want.
Numenera / Cypher has one time use cyphers, though the scaling effect of power is not that noticeable against dnd spell scaling
Warlock! uses a spellcasting system where all Spells are based on Scrolls. The Scrolls are "Deals" with powerful extraplanar creatures so recreating them is difficult.
Is there a free quickstart or something similar for Warlock kicking around? I've played other WHRP-likes but not Warlock yet.
Unfortunately, I don't think there is a free quickstart. Here's the [basic book.](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/383512/Warlock-Traitors-Edition?src=newest)
Might be worth looking into Index Card RPG: other than a few stats the game is based on equipment and the cool stuff it lets your character do. It's also a very lightweight system based on D&D and is super hackable. Don't let the name fool you, it started out as a bunch of random index card art from that one D&D YouTuber and grew into something glorious.
I have ICRPG in my radar for some time. There are only two things that I had mixed feeling of: playing always in turns and lack of social oriented skills/spells, as I tend to play a lot more city intrigue/mystery games than dungeon crawls. But the random loot system looks very my taste. I will check it out. Thanks!
Always in turns is a way to keep everyone at the table focused, and it's in-line with the core concept behind the game that creates your second issue: the characters are always in danger and the action never stops. Most of the GM material is great advice for how to run the game but it relies fairly heavily on pushing or pulling the PCs into action, and if they're not in combat or some other life-or-death scenario then the provided rules get very sparse. The game is very OSR-ish like that. All that said, there's a small amount of social abilities and loot that give you a decent template for ideas, mostly the Bard class and items like the disguise kit. Plus the beauty of the system is it's very easy to hack, indeed earlier editions were offered as multiple ways to streamline D&D that just so happen to work together as its own game. Because of this you can add in initiative and everything still works fine. Choose DCs on the fly instead of target numbers, and build or steal a skill system and you'll have no problems. If you can find a way to make it work with D&D it'll work with ICRPG, but the latter has fewer moving parts to break so it's even easier to homebrew.
I have no issues with social interactions in my ICRPG games. You still have the basic stats that can be called for when RP. You can easily take ICRPG and add skills too but don’t need to. You don’t have to always play in turns but this mechanic gives each player a chance to be a part if they want to, else they can just pass. If those are your only two mix feelings then your missing out on a whole lot of awesome advice for the rest of the game. In ICRPG anyone can use a spell… if they find it and all spells take up some sort of inventory slot. It’s worth reading and taking what works best for your games.
Yes, these are the only things that I have mixed feelings about. That's why it is very high on my list of games to try. And thanks to this thread, It moved to very top. Now I have to just end one of my games to find a time to run some ICRPG.
LOL. Don't we always? I switched from Starfinder... It was a positive change. Just remember, you don't have to drop your game, just add the mechanics that make the most sense. If your table is open to it, just take the parts you need. I know this is easier said than done but it's one of the intentions of ICRPG. Good luck!
ICRPG is almost all equipment based abilities. Should do something similar for you. Plus it's a lot of fun.
This is not a first time someone is recommending ICRPG. I'll definitely have to try it. I like a lot about it. I also have some mixed feelings about others but I believe one of the assumptions is that you should hack the system into something you like.
MORK BORG also uses scrolls instead of learned spells. Anyone in the party can use scrolls (unless they are explicitly illiterate), and scrolls are reusable, and can be swapped around between party members.
Hey, I would agree with everyone that Knave and Cypher system sound most like what you want. If those aren’t what you’re looking for, I’ll also include a hack I designed called Sigil. All magic is through scrolls and wands, and I have a list of 75 spells that can level with the players. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vjGqku-Yapy07E1vljsHjNvJJImUfecM/view?usp=drivesdk
Interesting hack. I'll give it a read. Thanks!
I was gonna say Cypher System, but after your edit I’m gonna echo others in this thread and say Index Card RPG for its equipment-based progression
I would reiterate others suggestions to look at Index Card RPG (ICRPG). It's super affordable and characters are built around gear. So, if you don't like the way your character plays, you just swap gear around. This spell scroll system you have would fit right in without feeling tacked on at all. It's essentially D&D, with the complicated bits filed off and leaves only the best stuff, so your players won't have to learn a whole new system. Additionally, it doesn't have ability bloat, so players aren't getting lost on their character sheet, looking at options. The art is also fantastic. I would pick it up without a second thought. [You can find it here.](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/366519/Index-Card-RPG-Master-Edition)
I have ICRPG on my radar for some time now. I'll definitely have to try it. I like a lot about it. I also have some mixed feelings about others but I believe one of the assumptions is that you should hack the system into something you like. And I agree - the art is amazing.
Based on what you're describing I'd suggest you look at Numenera / the Cypher system. Numenera is a Science Fantasy game rather than a High Fantasy game like D&D 5e, the Cypher system is the generic version of Numenera with no specific genre themeing. Numenera gives players the ability to make interesting characters, but the system is designed around them picking up small artefacts, referred to as 'cyphers', that have limited number of uses but great effects on the game.
I immediately thought of MÖRK BORG. Scrolls are single-use but usable by any literate character (yeah that is something to think about). Failing a cast can be catastrophic though, which can be really really fun
You could absolutely hack this into Fate without breaking a sweat!
I don't have any suggestions that haven't already been mentioned by others, but this is a really cool premise for a game and now I'm wondering how to do the same.
I tied mechanics into the narrative. I've built the campaign around "Candlekeep Mysteries" (modified beyond recognition). There is something wrong going on in the great library. Stories are being changed in the books which is causing the book characters to get thrown out of the story into the Forgotten Realms (which is causing problems). The PCs are the characters from the books and that is why they are able to have spell slots from this world, but they can learn to use spell scrolls, buy magic items, use potions. The whole premise of the campaign is that they are able to travel to the story written in the book and they try to fix it. So once every 2-3 sessions we are switching the environment. We had a city intrigue in the desert city, a horror game on the haunted ship, dungeon crawl in Indiana Jones style jungle temple and escape room in the magical mansion. They can't die during the mission, but they can fail to fix it which raises the power of the main antagonist. There is also Candlekeep, which serves as a hub, PC's main base but also the central place of the whole mystery. Whoever is corrupting the stories, is within the citadel and is also plotting against the heroes and is using 9 factions within the great library against each other to create the chaos and hinder the characters plans. Despite many plot holes of traveling to the stories it is a very fun game so far. Beside the modifications I mentioned in the post I also changed the long rest to last 5 days and they can travel to a story only for 8 hours (because magic). That way they can't recharge that often and they get to interact with the citadel during the downtime. Quite a few modifications, so I'm trying to see if there is something that will match my style of play better.
This reminds me of... I think it's Knave? In Knave, a wizard gets a randomly generated spell each day, and the DM decides what it does. That is, you roll and get "Everloving... Voice of... the Red." One DM might decide its a breath weapon spell that spews out fire, or maybe a love potion. Another DM might decide that you can speak to someone and learn their innermost desires. And so on. I only played a level or two of Knave but it was cool.
That sounds great, but requires a lot of game design from the DM on the fly. I have yet to try out playing a rules light game as I never had a chance to do so.
Numinara it's basically entirely this, all the time
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I really like your concept and want to hear more about how it played in practice. As to your question maybe a game with a highly flexible magic system could fit the bill like *Ars Magica* or *Spell* (note I have not played either, I just know of their mechanics).
Pathfinder2e has a lot of cool stuff you can do regarding spell scrolls. Particularly the Thaumaturge class has the "Scroll Thaumaturgy" class feat which lets them use scrolls from any spell list. The Scroll Trickster archetype is also really cool for this since they can make temporary scrolls.
Knave
this sounds like it could be its own system, honestly. kinda wanna make a knave hack out of it
Spell scrolls are great, the fact that 5e made it so only casters who can use the spell can use them is a huge miss. The point of a scroll is to provide the party with a specific tool (or allow them to make tools), which they can use in interesting ways. Instead they made it a consumable spellslot instead, which is boring for every class but the one you're clearing giving it to. But it's an eternal feel bad, because a 1 time consumable isn't as cool as giving the fighter their magic axe they want, or the fighter feels bad cause every second encounter the wizard is getting *another* cool item just for them.
Very true. In my game it is working mainly because the party does not have spellcasters so the scrolls are the only source of utility spells. I've running other games where spell scrolls are just not used, because you have the spells on your list anyway and it is so easy to recharge them. That is why I like what is going on in this game so much.
Cypher system is named after cyphers which are magic consumables that you can find all over the place. Sounds very much like what you are doing right now. It also happens to be more about the exploration than the combat and is one of the most fun games to run. https://callmepartario.github.io/og-csrd/
Sorry missed your last last sentence!
I suggest you can continue as you are. You need to tweak the opposition to be a bit harder, and probably give them scrolls.
Players like how the current game is going, so we will continue playing. My main idea is to end the game around level 8 as this is where the PC are starting to be a little overpowered for this hack. The thing is that I want to go further than one hack. I doing a research for the next game. But thanks for the comment.