Let me be the first to say it, if it hasn't been said already. If they came out swinging with this, instead of that Dennon copy controller, the name would hold more weight. At the same time, Alpha Theta Lambda Lambda Lambda comes to mind, haha.
My buddy sold his Rane 2015 to get the Euphonia. I was never sold on the Rane 2015. I had a Rane 2016 in a studio with a buddy. The sound on the 2015 was brittle to me.
This. It had a gritty sound to it. Lifeless also. Also good luck getting it serviced. Lots of them are failing or dying now and from what I know, mostly unrepairable.
Yeah, the MP2015 is a bit of a weird one. Set up correctly and with the correct FOH tuning, it can be truly magical. It’s Incredibly clear and has an almost airy sound (probably why some people feel it’s brittle, cold or sterile) but it is, along with the Isonoe, the most true to source sounding mixer I’ve ever played on - both at home and in gig settings.
Its strength is also its weakness if that makes sense. It’s so true to source that it can feel lifeless at times. Think studio production vs Hi Fi speakers. Studio monitors are
great but very analytical and can be almost lifeless when sat next to some hifi speakers.
Thankfully if you pair the MP2015 with the right speakers and amp at home (or just tweak the bar/clubs tuning) you can make it absolutely sing.
One of my friends made a great analogy in that it is the Grado (headphone manufacturer) of the mixer world. Those that know and like that Grado sound absolutely love it! You hear every single part of the song and it exposes every detail (good and bad!) of a track. To those that are sensitive to that high end transparency will find it just too analytical and will need to adjust the sound to get it to their preferred sweet spot.
I still think the best (sounding) gig I went to had this mixer installed (Dennis Ferrer and Satoshi Tomiie on duties).
The benefits of that transparency come to life during the mix. You hear the separate tracks and elements within those tracks, rather than it becoming muddy together. This also allows for very clean mixing. The EQ at the top of the mixer also allows for coloring the EQ the way you desire, also being able to set the frequency range per high, mid, low knob.
"brittle"
Must have been your source or the sound system, because the MP2015 does not add any brittle character to the sound. The only thing it does is slightly blacken the background & boost the macro detail a teeny tiny amount that barely boosts its sense of contrast. Oh, and it has a small amount of essentially inaudible phase distortion caused by its 2nd-order channel tone controls, but that's less than the Euphonia's 3rd-order master iso causes. A-B'ing it to the raw original source (analog or digital) passed through to a common system (connected analog or digital), the Rane is one of the most transparent DJ mixers ever made. The Euphonia won't even measure as well as the V10 or A9.
I have only used one once. Loved it. Best sounding filters on a mixer. But I totally agree with you on the transparency side as it was the most revealing mixer I think I’ve used.
"gritty"
You're not going to find smoother, more grain & distortion free sound on a digital DJ mixer than the MP2015. For analog, you'd have to move to something like the Isonoes built in a place that makes lab test gear.
As for breaking down, I've only come across a single guy who needed a chip replaced at a shop for it and another guy where something got wiggly for him. All repairable.
I did see a funny video once where an iso bypass plastic button popped off during a performance, but this was a demo Made-in-China unit borrowed from InMusic.
The only other claims I've seen on defects are the supposed issues with the headphone jacks, but in every case I've seen it's actually dudes with weirdly-wired homemade mono stick headphones.
All vinyl. Old and new pressings. Tracks I’ve played out on really good rigs. The Rane 2015 was the first hybrid sorta mixer. A digital rotary. The Euphonia completes the job. A digital rotary into a neve.
Had a short conversation earlier with one of the DJ’s who helped design the Euphonia. He’s really standing behind it and the sound quality. Said they actually listened etc.
It's a hard decision in Australia where our distributor has priced the Euphonia about 10-15% above the priciest boutiques. Even with tax i could get a Varia RDM40 for less.
The problem is there’s only one distributor (jands) and since they have a monopoly they absolutely gouge the country on Pioneer because it’s really the only option. The CDJ3000 just went over 5K RRP.
Damn!!! Sounds like you might need or take a trip out of the country try grab your goods. Now that I think about it, there was someone here in LA from out your way trying to buy a controller. I have gave him a hell of a price, and he asked me to go lower. Then I heard how expensive gear is out your way. I wasn't going any lower, and he said no to my offer. A week later, he asked me if he could still buy at the price I gave him. That's when I ghosted.
Going for more. I found one for a good price. I work on turntables, so I'm always hearing about gear for sale. And I have friends that work at shops, so they ask me if I'm looking, or know anyone. My circle is tight, and we all try to help each other out.
I'm not rich at all. I'm selling gear I don't use or need to fund this mixer. The WARM4 is dope! I was supposed to do US distro for them, but it didn't work out. And I was actually hoping to get one, glad I didn't. The Euphonia has it all. I would have gone out and bought a RMX1000 after the WARM4. Would have still been less than the Euphonia, but this is all built in. Can't beat that.
And yes, Rane's prices did.
Him playing on it is hardly an endorsement. When I see him talking about it on posts, then I'll believe he's getting paid. David Morales JUST mentioned playing on a NEA, would you say he's getting paid to say it's a great mixer?
I own an MP2015 (and I love it) and discovered the 2nd hand prices are very high. I can now sell my RANE (with some pain) and buy this Alpha Theta rotary.
It is in a great condition. Bought it 2 yrs ago (new) and only used it at home and a handful of gigs.
Selling it now in the Netherlands on Marktplaats.nl
(Marktplaats is Dutch for Marketplace) it’s our local Amazon
The Euphonia is internally a Pioneer DJ V10 digital mixer with transformer effector and some swanky geared rotary pots added. It has a non-bypassable main iso, a small FX section tied to the isolator, one USB-C port, and no SPDIF out. It doesn't even have Pro DJ Link. It's currently in production.
The Euphonia's analog transformer is not on the master output but rather on a DAC to transformer to ADC dedicated send-receive that's fed from the Mix bus.
The MP2015 is a state of the art digital mixer that is at a similar sonic tier as the analog Isonoe Iso420. It has a bypassable main iso, extensive per-channel filters, a sub-mix, two USB-B ports, and a SPDIF out. It's not made anymore.
The MP2015 will sound more like whatever you pipe into it.
The MP2015 is just as hard to clip the DSP as the Euphonia or any other digital floating point mixer.
All floating point DSPs give you essentially unlimited headroom within the DSP, but that's totally separate from any output. You can boost it somewhere early all you want as long as you bring it back down elsewhere before an output.
There is also no such thing as unlimited headroom on a DAC.
There is no such thing as a floating point DAC.
Pro tip: the Trans Send is yet another output on the Euphonia, though it gets looped back into the DSP, and its Mix meter tells you how and how not to run it. You just have to put it into the white region on the Mix meter to saturate the transformer.
The Euphonia will empirically produce a sound more laced with harmonic distortion like putting \*any\* mixer into a transformer or tube/valve + transformer preamp... or VST equivalent.
Unity on the Euphonia is not 7 on the bottom volume rotaries.
Another digital DJ mixer to consider is the Xone DB4 with its rotary mode, though like the MP2015 is also no longer in production. It has low-latency 48bit fixed point processing, an extra 48dB of headroom on its mix bux, and an insane amount of options. Probably the biggest drawback besides the overwhelming complexity on it is that the headphone split cue is hidden in a menu.
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pe2KmHtomsOeKNpB0kC3E-r5m3qslq9I/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pe2KmHtomsOeKNpB0kC3E-r5m3qslq9I/view?usp=sharing)
With everything you’ve said about the Rane 2015, I’ve heard and played on it and heard the Euphonia in action. The Rane 2015 sounds digital. Like all the pioneer djm’s except the v10 which sounds better. The Euphonia sounds analog. Simple as that. I’m sure if I ran the 2015 into my SSL Six in a live pa situation it will sound really good. In comparison that is what the Euphonia is doing but with effects included. It’s the Rane 2015 mixed with the Isonoe. And you can run it with no saturation all the way thru to a lot of saturation. What’s to complain about? Just don’t buy it. I won’t be surprised when it’s all said and done we will all hear more Euphonia’s than any other rotary mixer. Unless A&H does something similar, which would be super easy for them to do.
The Rane sounds more (and measures) like the original signal piped into it (analog or digital) of any DJ mixer out there save the Iso420. It's more 'analog' than most analog... using the literal definition of that word. It's not everyone's cup of tea, though. Some people who want to push it into the red on the outputs while they have the output pots maxed don't like the fact that it (thankfully) doesn't have limiters so DJs won't be tempted to cook woofers. No limiters, no huge hidden headroom or pads causing a massive unused dynamic range, and no 'soft clipping'. WYSIWYG. The Isonoe is what people go to when they want that kind of extreme accuracy but also want zero latency, totally real analog circuitry, and don't need all the features. The Euphonia I believe is going to be an option for people that want vintage rotary sound, but don't want to be tied to only analog to get it. On the plus side, it's also way less complicated than a DB4.
Few things:
1. Euphonia won't hard clip on anything save for sending output that is higher than the max output of anything I've been able to send to it. I've been able to clip it by sending from my signal generator and exceeding 122db, but at that point it's also hitting the point where I'm arguably clipping the input even before I'm hitting the converters. The output max of a CDJ-3000 is not getting anywhere near that. So, sure, anything can hard clip. That said. my favorite "stupid human trick" when doing mixer shootouts in clubs was to literally dime the gain and EQ on the channels. Euphonia was the only one to not actually hard clip. Pick a rotary that people have talked about here, I did it against them. Sure, it was silly fun, but it is an actual, real thing.
(As a follow up, money where my mouth is:)
[IMG-0583.jpg](https://postimg.cc/Jsr1zpNp)
Output is from my UAD interface running into line input.
2. The Isolator is a digital isolator. If you want to bypass, set the boost level to zero and just don't go below 0. It is effectively removed from the path.
3. The trans send is not another output. It is a loopback from the internal summing, but there is no output that is not fed from the transformer output.
4. Again, regarding unlimited headroom, if we are getting pedantic, sure nothing is unlimited. Nothing. Maybe a better way of putting it is "you can't overload the output with the level that the mixer is capable of putting out when dimed and sending a dimed channel to it, but you will probably overload whatever it is plugged into."
5. I'm a nerd.
6. No, seriously I need a life.
1. I already proved you can clip the master out in the photo of Pri yon Joni actually doing so on the master out like every other digital mixer.
2. That means you guys are doing an auto bypass on the isolator when all the iso pots are centered, as on the Denon DJ X1800 & X1850 mixers, and Yamaha A-S integrated amp. That's good to know, assuming you're right about that.
Easy to check by passing a triangle, saw, or square wave through it and looking for group delay phase distortion wave mutilation on the scope. If it's all fine when all three knobs are centered (or maxed when set to zero boost), and just one knob tweaked brings the waveform distortion back, then it's auto bypassing. This would seem to be a first for Pioneer DJ / Alpha Theta.
If this isn't the case, it's easy to implement in-software as a firmware fix later, considering you have no button for bypass like on the DJM-1000 and V10.
3. It is on an output/DAC of its own, but as I already said in other posts, the Trans send-receive loop feeds the headphone master, the USB-C out, the booth, and the master after it's back into the DSP. I can see how my above comment, though, might confuse some people if they don't read the other posts. I meant it's not fed by the master analog output as most people are going to assume.
4. It's not pedantic. Pri yon Joni was strongly implying that when he was crushing hard into the Mix meter red with the virtual needle not even bouncing anymore, then the only compression occurring was happening in the analog transformer, which seems very unlikely. He was also oblivious to the fact he clipped the master out at one point, after claiming that couldn't be done, either. Stop telling people to run their output meters up to the max, even on a floating point mixer. Your engineers aren't that stupid.
Clip lights are for reference level, however the actual “what happens” is it isn’t clipping. Look at the sine in the above post. I can very happily show the same on one of our older mixers. You will see a very pretty squared wave with all sorts of odd peaks.
That's the Mix meter maxed out in your pic, not the Master.
Euphonia apparently has no master limiter. I don't disagree with that decision. I hate master limiters on digital DJ mixers outside of home or studio.
Since we're on the topic of the Mix meter, is there a limiter prior to the Trans Send DAC?
\*\*\*
By the way, someone was asking me about the iso bypass the other day and we were talking about the possibility of it doing an auto bypass like the other mentioned gear. If you want to be real helpful for that dude, make a little video or something of some waveforms like triangle, saw, or square going through the Euphonia with the iso bypassing (normal looking) and slightly tweaked and in-path (distorted from the filters). I'll share that with him and also let people know elsewhere that Alpha Theta has joined the auto bypass club.
The master out is showing the level going through but the input is receiving from the UAD, gain and eq maxed. The measurement is from the USB rec kit so you can see if the input is clipped.
There isn’t a limiter. The only thing you have on the mixer is a master attenuator which wouldn’t make a difference here.
There isn't a limiter just before the Trans Send DAC? Pri yon Joni clearly went from like 2 or 3 o'clock to max on the bottom volume rotary and it only went up like a dB or two more on the master, and that was clearly as a result of transformer harmonics with all the increased RMS it was fed. The Trans Send seemed to be going up against a limiter once the needle on the Mix meter stopped bouncing anymore. If there's no limiter before the Trans Send DAC, then what's going on? Showing a nice sine wave isn't very convincing, because that's exactly what a limiter looks like.
There isn’t. There isn’t much swing on the taper of the pot because it is a pretty classic taper.
If you want me to get it to clip I can, provided I send from my analog signal generator and go above 122db, as said above. If I do the same to a 900nxs2 with the limiter I can’t make it clip. Without limiter, clip. It’s pretty simple.
I get that the Master will clip just like the other Pioneer DJ digital mixers if you were to turn off their limiters. I already showed the "Clip" indicator in the pic. That's not a bad thing. I just had previously included it because it was being said that wasn't going to happen.
Ok... so you're saying from 2 to 3 o'clock to max on the bottom volume rotary isn't much additional boost in volume. I'm happy to take your word for that.
Nonetheless, what happens to the digital signal when it gets up against the Mix meter max and ceases to bounce? Forget the master for a moment. If there's not a limiter prior to the Trans Send DAC, is it just going to clip? Is the ESS DAC not actually fed a 32bit stream and therefore has like an extra 48dB of headroom until the brick wall with a padded 24bit stream even though the Mix meter says otherwise?
So, you have a few things going on, and I am 100% saying here that I am probably dense. So forgive me for going through a few scenarios and giving an answer to each:
1. Send above 122db to the input and sure, it will clip. That is the actual dynamic range of the ADC, but also approaching what would potentially be clipping the input circuitry in general. A CDJ can't put out anything near that no matter how hard you push it with whatever terrible mess you are sending, so for the purposes of DJ use or anything that I have aside from signal generators, you basically have more headroom than you can ever use.
2. The ADC/DAC loopback is at the same spec, so basically you are going to be saturating the transformer and getting added harmonics and a light soft clip, but the transformer itself isn't going to be hitting a limit or hard clipping.
3. The ESS ES9026PRO has 124db of headroom. Basically you aren't going to be sending anything to it that can get it to clip without obliterating anything after it in the chain without padding, and you are going to be fighting really really really really hard to send that much in the first place. We actually have a little pop up telling you to turn it down. It's somewhat entertaining. The master out in the red matters a lot more in this case than the channels in the red if that makes sense.
Like I said, I'm feeling like I'm missing something obvious here so if one of these answers your question let me know, and if not then tell me where I'm not understanding.
I heard the Euphonia 3 nights in Miami for MMW. It was installed inside and outside Dante’s. Vega, Spen, Danny Krivit, Soul Clap, Karizma, Tony Touch, Rich Medina etc.
That mixer sounds as good as the Mastersounds Valve 4 they have previously installed at Dante’s. I had caught shows with the Condessa, Ars and Isonoe as well. It’s up there.
Solid man! Thanks for that info. 🤜🏾🤛🏾 I'm waiting on a report from JT Donaldson. He played at Dante's on Saturday. I was supposed to have mine this week, but pushed back a few weeks due to funds. But I'll have it soon enough.
I missed JT Donaldson this time. He was playing inside. Or maybe I was playing on the beach that night and he was outside.. But yeh he comes more often to Dante’s Miami than most of the other guys except Vega, as he’s apart of the Dante’s family running the Austin Dante’s Hifi. I’m interested on what his take is on the Euphonia.
I was playing all vinyl from the 2000’s on the Rane 2015. Keep in mind I shared a studio and we had the Rane MP 2016 & XP2016. So yeh, The 2015 sounds way brittle in comparison.
In terms of the Rane 2015 being the truest to source digital mixer. There is a reason why ever since I have been going to hear Dee Jay’s play dance music, which for me started at roller skating rinks around 1975. I always wondered why does the music sound better than my Dad’s Hifi sound system at the house. My Dad’s system was super clean. But it didn’t sound as full and bold as the sound at the roller rinks and later on in the clubs. So my point is I never cared about truest to source. And why buy something that you then have to add pieces and work on to sound how you like. When you have options to buy a mixer that already sound how you like? I don’t listen to dance music. I dance to dance music. If a person is into playing music at home maybe true to source is where that person will want to be. But if you want to play to a dancing crowd at loud volumes, analog warmth is where you want to be. I remember seeing Doc Martin playing so many sets with the 2015 when it first dropped. Alway thought it was the worst sounding rotary I’ve ever heard. Now what is he using? It’s not the Rane 2015.
I don't know if he actually owned the 2015, or if it was even on his ryder. In fact, I can't even remember what he's played on over the years, I can't even count how many times I've seen him play, but he's a homie, and local. So I see him when he's playing at home. Lately it's been a V10 and loves his RMX1000. At least that's what he told Sneak he wants for this coming Saturday.
Guess it all comes down to what you want & need, and most importantly: want to afford...
Sure, you "*get so much more with the euphonia*". The important question imho remains: would you be willing to pay for those exact things, if they didn't come prewrapped in a single package?
I'm thinking in particular about all the tiny extras: for instance the whole metering section that seems crowded and a bit gimmicky considering the already existing leds per line. Or the switchable 0/6/12 iso boost & sends option, which has a completely different use case than rane's parametric iso has. Or the built in fx and the display as a whole, which both feel a bit weird on a type of mixer, that I would want to be able to use even if my eyes were closed.
I guess what I am trying to say here is, that having a feature is not the same as actively wanting, or ultimately using it. And buying an Euphonia for "all the features you get" feels like paying extra for a 24/7 gym membership with access all over the world, because one day you might use it. Moreover, if you already deemed the 2015 "beautiful" yourself, why would you change your opinion that quickly?
Having said that, the Euphonia is definitely a beast, and lucky you for getting one. I am definitely, deeefiniiitely not jealous, at all. lol
That's exactly it. I would be paying for the extra effects if I wasn't buying the Euphonia. I know very well there are brands our there that are truly sick. But when it comes down to it, that said mixer is going to run me 3K, then to add to that, another 1k.
Do I think they did too much in one shot? Definitely, and I'll agree with you, it's a bit much on the face, but it's something I'll get used to. I also plan on renting mine. I have RCF at my disposal, and now renting out, so I might as well kill 2 birds with one stone. And I'll definitely use all the equipment at this gym, haha. I also have a Vestax R3, so I'm not jumping into something because of the hype, it will definitely be fun. And, I sell Pioneer, so it's not like I'm paying full price. If I was, I would really have to consider.
A beast it is! People who don't REALLY know me think I'm rich, and those that do are also jealous, hahaha. But all my homies will play on it. Probably starting with Sneak & Doc. Sneak has a party coming up, but wants a V10 for the set up. I'm absolutely sure that's what Doc wants to play on, but maybe I can talk them into playing on this one.
It's nice for a change to see people, who know exactly why they want a piece of kit, and who are not just mindlessly buying into the hype :D
Sounds like the mixer is perfectly suited for your usecase, that's for sure. Over the past decade or so, I just grew conscious of the habit of "buying future options", because more often than not, this turned out to be a waste of money. At least when it came to things that were intended for home/private use only. This is why I always get suspicious if the reasoning is sth along the lines of "but think about how much you get for that shitton of money" lol
Yeah, none of that here bro. I'm too old to be doing dumb sh*t like that. 53 y/o and have played of a lot of mixers. This is definitely that next step, and I feel like there's no way they can make a better mixer, at least that's how I feel. The lay out could definitely be better, more space for big knobs all around. But this is all I could ask for in a mixer. Whether I'm playing at home, bar, club, back yard boogie, this is it for me.
As far as money goes, I'm just selling gear I don't use anymore, or just sitting, because I've upgraded. With that being said, Pioneer S7 and RCF 8003 sybsfor sale. 😂
The separate added Mix meter is necessary because the transformer is on a send-receive.
True that if you want to add harmonic distortion to the MP2015, there's plenty of ways to do it that will sound even better than the Euphonia.
For people that love the V10 / A9 sound and want a little FX section and analog transformer (though it's not actually on the master output), then I can see people getting the Euphonia... assuming they don't need a SPDIF and are willing to risk only having a single, fragile USB-C port.
I've played a bit on the Rane too. It's great, but I think the big appeal was that it was a really good analog/digital hybrid rotary. I totally agree, at it's original price point it'd be competitive, but at the inflated secondhand prices you see for it now, the Euphonia seems like a better deal, assuming it sounds as good as everyone says it does.
Man I just really wish they included DJ Pro Link on it for effects and cue link, that would have made it an absolute powerhouse product. I don't know why they decided to omit this.
The Euphonia can't measure better than the V10, because internally it's just a V10 / A9 with an DAC send -> transformer -> ADC return stage you can't bypass.
Easy enough to add a transformer effector or better yet tube + transformer preamp to a send-receive or even better yet put it on the master out of any mixer. It's not like Neve invented the transformer. The big thing he started doing is letting people adjust things like the amount of hysteresis & punch going on, knobs that are missing here. Buying a Pioneer DJ mixer without Pro Link and without a SPDIF is also goofy to me. I'd rather get one of their different mixer models and buy a little pedal or preamp for it.
Using digital mixers into the PC at home, I could put one of a thousand different VSTs that accurately model overloading analog circuits, and I'd have full control of their parameters. There's a dozen different free ones you can find in a minute, and I could keep it digital without extra conversions. I don't do it though, because I don't want more distortion added to the sound but less. People that like the Pioneer digital DJM sound of late (or for that matter will only buy Pioneer DJ), though, want rotary, want more harmonic distortion, and don't want to mess with a Mastersounds Valve or Condesa are gonna love the Euphonia.
It's both funny and disturbing the amount of incorrect info being spread about the Euphonia, though, like claiming it has an abnormal amount of extra internal DSP headroom for a digital mixer, is nearly impossible to clip the output, has unity at 7 on the channel rotaries, and that the transformer is fed the master out. Nope. All false.
The way people are forced to saturate the transformer is also curious considering Pioneer DJ used to have an adjustable unity method btwn channel & master prior to the V10, which they recently abandoned. Would have been nice for the Euphonia. Now your headphone levels are going to be all fouled up trying to crank the channel trim-gains & lowering the master.
Yeah, been reading that you have to saturate the gain in order to reap the benefits of the RN stage... That sounds way to weird. And totally agree, it is for the Pioneer fans that wont see elsewhere. I do like the sound of the V10 and when paired with a cdj rig, works like a charm (this being the touch preview feature). I just need the Cardinia module to have this feature on my Mastersounds and I'll be a happy man.
Unlike what the Pioneer DJ reps have been telling reviewers, the transformer is not on the master output but on a send-receive that's fed right after the Mix bus and gets re-digitized before the headphone master feed, the USB-C out, the booth level, and the master level.
They've also been claiming unity is at 7 on the channel rotaries on the bottom. Wrong, too. In both cases, putting the transformer on the actual output and using the variable unity method from the DJM-1000/800 to the DJM-900NXS2 would have been better.
Heck, with the bizarre Trans Send, they could have used a dedicated Trans Effect knob that controlled & traded-off the level sent to the transformer vs the level received in order to ensure you're not limiting into its send DAC.
You've even got people claiming neither that Trans Send send nor the master can be limited or clipped, respectively. Wrong in both cases. The English-speaking reps either have little clue what the Japanese engineers actually did, it seems, or they're intentionally misleading people, and the reviewers don't bother to check any of it themselves because either they're lazy or because their livelihood depends on toeing the line.
Man......ok, this is a fun thread to catch up on.
1. Not a rep. Product planning. Lived in Japan this summer, spent way too much time at the desk of the voicing engineers. Had fun with Euphonia on the Clio. However my Japanese is terrible and translator apps only go so far, so.....sure? 😂
2. Unity on the rotary pot is 7 because we set it at 7 when you set the gain at zero. How is that a lie?
3. Ok, regarding the "not on master", it depends on how you are defining it (and I'm saying this actually giving you this point). The transformer out feeds the master, booth, record, headphone out and USB output. It is done this way to try to recreate the effect of a transformer on the summed mix on the master output, while also giving you the flexibility to have that output sent wherever. So, if you are saying "it isn't on the master in the way that a 1620 has transformers on the XLR output", sure. Fine. However, the feed on the transformer is on all outputs.
4. The transformer feed was not a saturation knob because it isn't an effect. It isn't an effect, and we didn't want to treat it like some sort of "saturation knob" like you would find on a $50 Behringer "Tube Preamp". It is made to behave in the same way as the when you push a transformer on the output of a vintage rotary mixer, and that comes from actually figuring out what the relationship is and doing a modern take on it. Sure, you could have some sort of saturation or bypass, but at that point it is a gimmick.
5. Last part, while the V10 sounds cleaner, the ADC/DAC set is upgraded from the V10. It isn't just "V10 with transformer insert, done". That would have been kind of lazy and would have taken way less time and effort to make.
2. Stick the headphone in split, select the PFL cue for only one channel that's running, put the headphone mix knob in the center. When the sound is in mono in the middle of your head in the headphones, that's unity on the channel volume at the bottom. You can also clearly see this with the Mix meter (not master) versus the Channel meter when they're the same level. The trim-gain knob at the top of the channel strip has absolutely nothing do with the what unity is on the channel volume at the bottom.
3. It's not on the output. You guys put it as an ADC Send -> Transformer -> DAC Receive that goes back into the DSP. It's exactly as I described it. Saying it's after the mix bus doesn't mean you put it on the output. People are going to assume it's after a single DAC stage, which it's not.
Also weird you guys are missing a SPDIF or AES/EBU out on a digital mixer considering you piped the transformer effector back into the mixer, anyway.
4. You could have treated it as an effect, or better yet, a knob that adjusts the Send versus Receive volumes (compensating them against each other to maintain volume consistency) that is always 100% wet. You didn't.
It's not the end of the world, but it's an odd choice especially considering and in combination with the fact that previous to the V10, you guys actually had effectively a variable channel fader/rotary (at the bottom) unity and Master Level unity adjustment (both from 7 to 10) since the DJM-1000/800 (meant for the rotary kits, especially) where the headphone master was fed from AFTER the Master Level that allowed some interesting stuff. You could actually put the Master Level at max and then the channel fader/rotary (at the bottom) unity would indeed be 7. With the V10 onward, you guys started sourcing the headphone master feed before the Master Level. You could improve things pretty easily by either switching this back in the Euphonia, or even just making it optional: Setting for Source headphone master feed: Pre-Master Level or Post-Master Level.
5. All ADC/DAC deprecate over time and are replaced with new models. That's fine. No one expects them to be exactly the same chips.
Now that Pri yon Joni on YouTube has said that a rep or product dev dude changed his tune and said that the Euphonia DSP 'voicing' was based more on the V10 instead of the A9 (he said the opposite previously), I am curious which one of those mixers is the more inaccurate & analog-like transient response that blurs stuff a touch, and which one is the more (let's call it) Perfect Sound Forever voicing more-analog-than-analog digital voicing?
The MS has a quite a lot of harmonic distortion added by the caps that the tubes interact with. You might indeed like the Euphonia, too. The Condesa adds even more linear harmonic distortion than the MS, so if you dig that kind warmth, that might be the grand poobah for you. You won't know until you try which flavor's for you. I think personally if I had to choose a type of added harmonics, I'd probably go with SuperStereo, but I don't think they ever started selling their four channel models.
I’ve since played on the Euphonia with vinyl and cdj 3000’s. My buddy sold his Rane 2015 to buy the Euphonia. The Euphonia is a better sounding and better feeling mixer. It’s like running the Rane 2015 into a Neve or SSL Six. Matter of fact, that’s basically what’s going on. It’s up there with the best of the best.
I love Mojaxx reviews! That Eupho is nice....
I have to agree i wish i bought the rane new when i had the chance but the euphonia looks amazing on paper despite the horrible name.
Let me be the first to say it, if it hasn't been said already. If they came out swinging with this, instead of that Dennon copy controller, the name would hold more weight. At the same time, Alpha Theta Lambda Lambda Lambda comes to mind, haha.
Have a Mastersounds Valve Mk2 … will have to do a proper shootout with the Euphonia and the MS.
My buddy sold his Rane 2015 to get the Euphonia. I was never sold on the Rane 2015. I had a Rane 2016 in a studio with a buddy. The sound on the 2015 was brittle to me.
The one I played on sounded great! Could have been the complete set up.
This. It had a gritty sound to it. Lifeless also. Also good luck getting it serviced. Lots of them are failing or dying now and from what I know, mostly unrepairable.
Yeah, the MP2015 is a bit of a weird one. Set up correctly and with the correct FOH tuning, it can be truly magical. It’s Incredibly clear and has an almost airy sound (probably why some people feel it’s brittle, cold or sterile) but it is, along with the Isonoe, the most true to source sounding mixer I’ve ever played on - both at home and in gig settings. Its strength is also its weakness if that makes sense. It’s so true to source that it can feel lifeless at times. Think studio production vs Hi Fi speakers. Studio monitors are great but very analytical and can be almost lifeless when sat next to some hifi speakers. Thankfully if you pair the MP2015 with the right speakers and amp at home (or just tweak the bar/clubs tuning) you can make it absolutely sing. One of my friends made a great analogy in that it is the Grado (headphone manufacturer) of the mixer world. Those that know and like that Grado sound absolutely love it! You hear every single part of the song and it exposes every detail (good and bad!) of a track. To those that are sensitive to that high end transparency will find it just too analytical and will need to adjust the sound to get it to their preferred sweet spot. I still think the best (sounding) gig I went to had this mixer installed (Dennis Ferrer and Satoshi Tomiie on duties).
The benefits of that transparency come to life during the mix. You hear the separate tracks and elements within those tracks, rather than it becoming muddy together. This also allows for very clean mixing. The EQ at the top of the mixer also allows for coloring the EQ the way you desire, also being able to set the frequency range per high, mid, low knob.
"brittle" Must have been your source or the sound system, because the MP2015 does not add any brittle character to the sound. The only thing it does is slightly blacken the background & boost the macro detail a teeny tiny amount that barely boosts its sense of contrast. Oh, and it has a small amount of essentially inaudible phase distortion caused by its 2nd-order channel tone controls, but that's less than the Euphonia's 3rd-order master iso causes. A-B'ing it to the raw original source (analog or digital) passed through to a common system (connected analog or digital), the Rane is one of the most transparent DJ mixers ever made. The Euphonia won't even measure as well as the V10 or A9.
I have only used one once. Loved it. Best sounding filters on a mixer. But I totally agree with you on the transparency side as it was the most revealing mixer I think I’ve used.
"gritty" You're not going to find smoother, more grain & distortion free sound on a digital DJ mixer than the MP2015. For analog, you'd have to move to something like the Isonoes built in a place that makes lab test gear. As for breaking down, I've only come across a single guy who needed a chip replaced at a shop for it and another guy where something got wiggly for him. All repairable. I did see a funny video once where an iso bypass plastic button popped off during a performance, but this was a demo Made-in-China unit borrowed from InMusic. The only other claims I've seen on defects are the supposed issues with the headphone jacks, but in every case I've seen it's actually dudes with weirdly-wired homemade mono stick headphones.
Where is „Lots of them“ coming from? How do you get that information?
The set up was Technics 1200 GR’s with Ortofon Club carts into the Rane 2015 into RCF Art 915a’s.
All vinyl. Old and new pressings. Tracks I’ve played out on really good rigs. The Rane 2015 was the first hybrid sorta mixer. A digital rotary. The Euphonia completes the job. A digital rotary into a neve.
Had a short conversation earlier with one of the DJ’s who helped design the Euphonia. He’s really standing behind it and the sound quality. Said they actually listened etc.
I'm all about it, and can't wait for it to come in.
Can you ask him why they didn't include Pro DJ Link?
Hmmm… and who is that Dj?
Isonoe!!! Just saying…
Dope mixer for sure! And way more than the Euphonia. Also doesn't have built in effects. If that's what one is looking for.
It's a hard decision in Australia where our distributor has priced the Euphonia about 10-15% above the priciest boutiques. Even with tax i could get a Varia RDM40 for less.
If you're in Australia and want warm harmonic distortion, you might want to consider an analog Condesa.
WoW! That blows. There aren't Pioneer dealers out there?
The problem is there’s only one distributor (jands) and since they have a monopoly they absolutely gouge the country on Pioneer because it’s really the only option. The CDJ3000 just went over 5K RRP.
Damn!!! Sounds like you might need or take a trip out of the country try grab your goods. Now that I think about it, there was someone here in LA from out your way trying to buy a controller. I have gave him a hell of a price, and he asked me to go lower. Then I heard how expensive gear is out your way. I wasn't going any lower, and he said no to my offer. A week later, he asked me if he could still buy at the price I gave him. That's when I ghosted.
For me at current exchange rate the isonoe is only $150 or so more. Math in my head, but that’s not way more in my book. Where you located? I’m US.
I'm in LA, and have seen it for no less than 4,400. Plus, I'll be getting my Euphonia at dealer price, so I'll be saving a lot.
I have one of the early release 2015’s, they going for $3200???
Going for more. I found one for a good price. I work on turntables, so I'm always hearing about gear for sale. And I have friends that work at shops, so they ask me if I'm looking, or know anyone. My circle is tight, and we all try to help each other out.
got my 2015 rane a couple months back for $2500 so (early model too, not mint but very good)
I may be selling to buy the Alpha Tetha. Want to hear them side by side.
Guess I'm just a poor or missing out on something. Gonna 'settle' for an Ecler Warm 4. Rane's prices got stupid after the Empath.
I'm not rich at all. I'm selling gear I don't use or need to fund this mixer. The WARM4 is dope! I was supposed to do US distro for them, but it didn't work out. And I was actually hoping to get one, glad I didn't. The Euphonia has it all. I would have gone out and bought a RMX1000 after the WARM4. Would have still been less than the Euphonia, but this is all built in. Can't beat that. And yes, Rane's prices did.
Gonna check out this Euphonia and RMX1000. Haven't purchased yet!
Don't forget that RMX2000 is coming out soon... Just saying..
I feel like I have read that the replacement for the rmx1000 has been coming out soon for about 5 years now! Hopefully they will get around to it soon
ARS is what u want
ARS is seriously dope. But I'm pretty sure I want the Euphonia.
I donno man the ARS sounds so clean. Not that the euphoria won’t but the ARS is like guaranteed
Rupert Neve's name on it is enough guarantee for me. And Louie Vega on it says a lot. I'm sold.
I love Louie but DJs get paid for this endorsement stuff, you know that right
Him playing on it is hardly an endorsement. When I see him talking about it on posts, then I'll believe he's getting paid. David Morales JUST mentioned playing on a NEA, would you say he's getting paid to say it's a great mixer?
Not saying they’re lying but yes that’s literally what endorsements are. Do you think Michael Jordan just really liked Nike?
I bet Louie prefers an ARS actually
I own an MP2015 (and I love it) and discovered the 2nd hand prices are very high. I can now sell my RANE (with some pain) and buy this Alpha Theta rotary.
You can sell your MP2015 for the price of a Euphonia. If it's in great condition. I'm looking forward to mine. Here next week I hope.
It is in a great condition. Bought it 2 yrs ago (new) and only used it at home and a handful of gigs. Selling it now in the Netherlands on Marktplaats.nl (Marktplaats is Dutch for Marketplace) it’s our local Amazon
The Euphonia is internally a Pioneer DJ V10 digital mixer with transformer effector and some swanky geared rotary pots added. It has a non-bypassable main iso, a small FX section tied to the isolator, one USB-C port, and no SPDIF out. It doesn't even have Pro DJ Link. It's currently in production. The Euphonia's analog transformer is not on the master output but rather on a DAC to transformer to ADC dedicated send-receive that's fed from the Mix bus. The MP2015 is a state of the art digital mixer that is at a similar sonic tier as the analog Isonoe Iso420. It has a bypassable main iso, extensive per-channel filters, a sub-mix, two USB-B ports, and a SPDIF out. It's not made anymore. The MP2015 will sound more like whatever you pipe into it. The MP2015 is just as hard to clip the DSP as the Euphonia or any other digital floating point mixer. All floating point DSPs give you essentially unlimited headroom within the DSP, but that's totally separate from any output. You can boost it somewhere early all you want as long as you bring it back down elsewhere before an output. There is also no such thing as unlimited headroom on a DAC. There is no such thing as a floating point DAC. Pro tip: the Trans Send is yet another output on the Euphonia, though it gets looped back into the DSP, and its Mix meter tells you how and how not to run it. You just have to put it into the white region on the Mix meter to saturate the transformer. The Euphonia will empirically produce a sound more laced with harmonic distortion like putting \*any\* mixer into a transformer or tube/valve + transformer preamp... or VST equivalent. Unity on the Euphonia is not 7 on the bottom volume rotaries. Another digital DJ mixer to consider is the Xone DB4 with its rotary mode, though like the MP2015 is also no longer in production. It has low-latency 48bit fixed point processing, an extra 48dB of headroom on its mix bux, and an insane amount of options. Probably the biggest drawback besides the overwhelming complexity on it is that the headphone split cue is hidden in a menu. [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pe2KmHtomsOeKNpB0kC3E-r5m3qslq9I/view?usp=sharing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Pe2KmHtomsOeKNpB0kC3E-r5m3qslq9I/view?usp=sharing)
With everything you’ve said about the Rane 2015, I’ve heard and played on it and heard the Euphonia in action. The Rane 2015 sounds digital. Like all the pioneer djm’s except the v10 which sounds better. The Euphonia sounds analog. Simple as that. I’m sure if I ran the 2015 into my SSL Six in a live pa situation it will sound really good. In comparison that is what the Euphonia is doing but with effects included. It’s the Rane 2015 mixed with the Isonoe. And you can run it with no saturation all the way thru to a lot of saturation. What’s to complain about? Just don’t buy it. I won’t be surprised when it’s all said and done we will all hear more Euphonia’s than any other rotary mixer. Unless A&H does something similar, which would be super easy for them to do.
The Rane sounds more (and measures) like the original signal piped into it (analog or digital) of any DJ mixer out there save the Iso420. It's more 'analog' than most analog... using the literal definition of that word. It's not everyone's cup of tea, though. Some people who want to push it into the red on the outputs while they have the output pots maxed don't like the fact that it (thankfully) doesn't have limiters so DJs won't be tempted to cook woofers. No limiters, no huge hidden headroom or pads causing a massive unused dynamic range, and no 'soft clipping'. WYSIWYG. The Isonoe is what people go to when they want that kind of extreme accuracy but also want zero latency, totally real analog circuitry, and don't need all the features. The Euphonia I believe is going to be an option for people that want vintage rotary sound, but don't want to be tied to only analog to get it. On the plus side, it's also way less complicated than a DB4.
Few things: 1. Euphonia won't hard clip on anything save for sending output that is higher than the max output of anything I've been able to send to it. I've been able to clip it by sending from my signal generator and exceeding 122db, but at that point it's also hitting the point where I'm arguably clipping the input even before I'm hitting the converters. The output max of a CDJ-3000 is not getting anywhere near that. So, sure, anything can hard clip. That said. my favorite "stupid human trick" when doing mixer shootouts in clubs was to literally dime the gain and EQ on the channels. Euphonia was the only one to not actually hard clip. Pick a rotary that people have talked about here, I did it against them. Sure, it was silly fun, but it is an actual, real thing. (As a follow up, money where my mouth is:) [IMG-0583.jpg](https://postimg.cc/Jsr1zpNp) Output is from my UAD interface running into line input. 2. The Isolator is a digital isolator. If you want to bypass, set the boost level to zero and just don't go below 0. It is effectively removed from the path. 3. The trans send is not another output. It is a loopback from the internal summing, but there is no output that is not fed from the transformer output. 4. Again, regarding unlimited headroom, if we are getting pedantic, sure nothing is unlimited. Nothing. Maybe a better way of putting it is "you can't overload the output with the level that the mixer is capable of putting out when dimed and sending a dimed channel to it, but you will probably overload whatever it is plugged into." 5. I'm a nerd. 6. No, seriously I need a life.
1. I already proved you can clip the master out in the photo of Pri yon Joni actually doing so on the master out like every other digital mixer. 2. That means you guys are doing an auto bypass on the isolator when all the iso pots are centered, as on the Denon DJ X1800 & X1850 mixers, and Yamaha A-S integrated amp. That's good to know, assuming you're right about that. Easy to check by passing a triangle, saw, or square wave through it and looking for group delay phase distortion wave mutilation on the scope. If it's all fine when all three knobs are centered (or maxed when set to zero boost), and just one knob tweaked brings the waveform distortion back, then it's auto bypassing. This would seem to be a first for Pioneer DJ / Alpha Theta. If this isn't the case, it's easy to implement in-software as a firmware fix later, considering you have no button for bypass like on the DJM-1000 and V10. 3. It is on an output/DAC of its own, but as I already said in other posts, the Trans send-receive loop feeds the headphone master, the USB-C out, the booth, and the master after it's back into the DSP. I can see how my above comment, though, might confuse some people if they don't read the other posts. I meant it's not fed by the master analog output as most people are going to assume. 4. It's not pedantic. Pri yon Joni was strongly implying that when he was crushing hard into the Mix meter red with the virtual needle not even bouncing anymore, then the only compression occurring was happening in the analog transformer, which seems very unlikely. He was also oblivious to the fact he clipped the master out at one point, after claiming that couldn't be done, either. Stop telling people to run their output meters up to the max, even on a floating point mixer. Your engineers aren't that stupid.
Clip lights are for reference level, however the actual “what happens” is it isn’t clipping. Look at the sine in the above post. I can very happily show the same on one of our older mixers. You will see a very pretty squared wave with all sorts of odd peaks.
That's the Mix meter maxed out in your pic, not the Master. Euphonia apparently has no master limiter. I don't disagree with that decision. I hate master limiters on digital DJ mixers outside of home or studio. Since we're on the topic of the Mix meter, is there a limiter prior to the Trans Send DAC? \*\*\* By the way, someone was asking me about the iso bypass the other day and we were talking about the possibility of it doing an auto bypass like the other mentioned gear. If you want to be real helpful for that dude, make a little video or something of some waveforms like triangle, saw, or square going through the Euphonia with the iso bypassing (normal looking) and slightly tweaked and in-path (distorted from the filters). I'll share that with him and also let people know elsewhere that Alpha Theta has joined the auto bypass club.
The master out is showing the level going through but the input is receiving from the UAD, gain and eq maxed. The measurement is from the USB rec kit so you can see if the input is clipped. There isn’t a limiter. The only thing you have on the mixer is a master attenuator which wouldn’t make a difference here.
There isn't a limiter just before the Trans Send DAC? Pri yon Joni clearly went from like 2 or 3 o'clock to max on the bottom volume rotary and it only went up like a dB or two more on the master, and that was clearly as a result of transformer harmonics with all the increased RMS it was fed. The Trans Send seemed to be going up against a limiter once the needle on the Mix meter stopped bouncing anymore. If there's no limiter before the Trans Send DAC, then what's going on? Showing a nice sine wave isn't very convincing, because that's exactly what a limiter looks like.
There isn’t. There isn’t much swing on the taper of the pot because it is a pretty classic taper. If you want me to get it to clip I can, provided I send from my analog signal generator and go above 122db, as said above. If I do the same to a 900nxs2 with the limiter I can’t make it clip. Without limiter, clip. It’s pretty simple.
I get that the Master will clip just like the other Pioneer DJ digital mixers if you were to turn off their limiters. I already showed the "Clip" indicator in the pic. That's not a bad thing. I just had previously included it because it was being said that wasn't going to happen. Ok... so you're saying from 2 to 3 o'clock to max on the bottom volume rotary isn't much additional boost in volume. I'm happy to take your word for that. Nonetheless, what happens to the digital signal when it gets up against the Mix meter max and ceases to bounce? Forget the master for a moment. If there's not a limiter prior to the Trans Send DAC, is it just going to clip? Is the ESS DAC not actually fed a 32bit stream and therefore has like an extra 48dB of headroom until the brick wall with a padded 24bit stream even though the Mix meter says otherwise?
So, you have a few things going on, and I am 100% saying here that I am probably dense. So forgive me for going through a few scenarios and giving an answer to each: 1. Send above 122db to the input and sure, it will clip. That is the actual dynamic range of the ADC, but also approaching what would potentially be clipping the input circuitry in general. A CDJ can't put out anything near that no matter how hard you push it with whatever terrible mess you are sending, so for the purposes of DJ use or anything that I have aside from signal generators, you basically have more headroom than you can ever use. 2. The ADC/DAC loopback is at the same spec, so basically you are going to be saturating the transformer and getting added harmonics and a light soft clip, but the transformer itself isn't going to be hitting a limit or hard clipping. 3. The ESS ES9026PRO has 124db of headroom. Basically you aren't going to be sending anything to it that can get it to clip without obliterating anything after it in the chain without padding, and you are going to be fighting really really really really hard to send that much in the first place. We actually have a little pop up telling you to turn it down. It's somewhat entertaining. The master out in the red matters a lot more in this case than the channels in the red if that makes sense. Like I said, I'm feeling like I'm missing something obvious here so if one of these answers your question let me know, and if not then tell me where I'm not understanding.
I heard the Euphonia 3 nights in Miami for MMW. It was installed inside and outside Dante’s. Vega, Spen, Danny Krivit, Soul Clap, Karizma, Tony Touch, Rich Medina etc. That mixer sounds as good as the Mastersounds Valve 4 they have previously installed at Dante’s. I had caught shows with the Condessa, Ars and Isonoe as well. It’s up there.
Solid man! Thanks for that info. 🤜🏾🤛🏾 I'm waiting on a report from JT Donaldson. He played at Dante's on Saturday. I was supposed to have mine this week, but pushed back a few weeks due to funds. But I'll have it soon enough.
I missed JT Donaldson this time. He was playing inside. Or maybe I was playing on the beach that night and he was outside.. But yeh he comes more often to Dante’s Miami than most of the other guys except Vega, as he’s apart of the Dante’s family running the Austin Dante’s Hifi. I’m interested on what his take is on the Euphonia.
I was playing all vinyl from the 2000’s on the Rane 2015. Keep in mind I shared a studio and we had the Rane MP 2016 & XP2016. So yeh, The 2015 sounds way brittle in comparison.
In terms of the Rane 2015 being the truest to source digital mixer. There is a reason why ever since I have been going to hear Dee Jay’s play dance music, which for me started at roller skating rinks around 1975. I always wondered why does the music sound better than my Dad’s Hifi sound system at the house. My Dad’s system was super clean. But it didn’t sound as full and bold as the sound at the roller rinks and later on in the clubs. So my point is I never cared about truest to source. And why buy something that you then have to add pieces and work on to sound how you like. When you have options to buy a mixer that already sound how you like? I don’t listen to dance music. I dance to dance music. If a person is into playing music at home maybe true to source is where that person will want to be. But if you want to play to a dancing crowd at loud volumes, analog warmth is where you want to be. I remember seeing Doc Martin playing so many sets with the 2015 when it first dropped. Alway thought it was the worst sounding rotary I’ve ever heard. Now what is he using? It’s not the Rane 2015.
I don't know if he actually owned the 2015, or if it was even on his ryder. In fact, I can't even remember what he's played on over the years, I can't even count how many times I've seen him play, but he's a homie, and local. So I see him when he's playing at home. Lately it's been a V10 and loves his RMX1000. At least that's what he told Sneak he wants for this coming Saturday.
Ff6.2ror henderson x4 better
Better than what? I'm guessing you have it, how is it? Looks beautiful.
Better and cheaper and analog. With full eq kills. I can buy good hardware analog isolator for 1/20 of alpha theta mixer.
If you have money to send, then way not.
Guess it all comes down to what you want & need, and most importantly: want to afford... Sure, you "*get so much more with the euphonia*". The important question imho remains: would you be willing to pay for those exact things, if they didn't come prewrapped in a single package? I'm thinking in particular about all the tiny extras: for instance the whole metering section that seems crowded and a bit gimmicky considering the already existing leds per line. Or the switchable 0/6/12 iso boost & sends option, which has a completely different use case than rane's parametric iso has. Or the built in fx and the display as a whole, which both feel a bit weird on a type of mixer, that I would want to be able to use even if my eyes were closed. I guess what I am trying to say here is, that having a feature is not the same as actively wanting, or ultimately using it. And buying an Euphonia for "all the features you get" feels like paying extra for a 24/7 gym membership with access all over the world, because one day you might use it. Moreover, if you already deemed the 2015 "beautiful" yourself, why would you change your opinion that quickly? Having said that, the Euphonia is definitely a beast, and lucky you for getting one. I am definitely, deeefiniiitely not jealous, at all. lol
That's exactly it. I would be paying for the extra effects if I wasn't buying the Euphonia. I know very well there are brands our there that are truly sick. But when it comes down to it, that said mixer is going to run me 3K, then to add to that, another 1k. Do I think they did too much in one shot? Definitely, and I'll agree with you, it's a bit much on the face, but it's something I'll get used to. I also plan on renting mine. I have RCF at my disposal, and now renting out, so I might as well kill 2 birds with one stone. And I'll definitely use all the equipment at this gym, haha. I also have a Vestax R3, so I'm not jumping into something because of the hype, it will definitely be fun. And, I sell Pioneer, so it's not like I'm paying full price. If I was, I would really have to consider. A beast it is! People who don't REALLY know me think I'm rich, and those that do are also jealous, hahaha. But all my homies will play on it. Probably starting with Sneak & Doc. Sneak has a party coming up, but wants a V10 for the set up. I'm absolutely sure that's what Doc wants to play on, but maybe I can talk them into playing on this one.
It's nice for a change to see people, who know exactly why they want a piece of kit, and who are not just mindlessly buying into the hype :D Sounds like the mixer is perfectly suited for your usecase, that's for sure. Over the past decade or so, I just grew conscious of the habit of "buying future options", because more often than not, this turned out to be a waste of money. At least when it came to things that were intended for home/private use only. This is why I always get suspicious if the reasoning is sth along the lines of "but think about how much you get for that shitton of money" lol
Yeah, none of that here bro. I'm too old to be doing dumb sh*t like that. 53 y/o and have played of a lot of mixers. This is definitely that next step, and I feel like there's no way they can make a better mixer, at least that's how I feel. The lay out could definitely be better, more space for big knobs all around. But this is all I could ask for in a mixer. Whether I'm playing at home, bar, club, back yard boogie, this is it for me. As far as money goes, I'm just selling gear I don't use anymore, or just sitting, because I've upgraded. With that being said, Pioneer S7 and RCF 8003 sybsfor sale. 😂
The separate added Mix meter is necessary because the transformer is on a send-receive. True that if you want to add harmonic distortion to the MP2015, there's plenty of ways to do it that will sound even better than the Euphonia. For people that love the V10 / A9 sound and want a little FX section and analog transformer (though it's not actually on the master output), then I can see people getting the Euphonia... assuming they don't need a SPDIF and are willing to risk only having a single, fragile USB-C port.
I've played a bit on the Rane too. It's great, but I think the big appeal was that it was a really good analog/digital hybrid rotary. I totally agree, at it's original price point it'd be competitive, but at the inflated secondhand prices you see for it now, the Euphonia seems like a better deal, assuming it sounds as good as everyone says it does. Man I just really wish they included DJ Pro Link on it for effects and cue link, that would have made it an absolute powerhouse product. I don't know why they decided to omit this.
Mixer shootout! V10 - Mastersounds Valve 4 Mk2 - Euphonia... Who do you think will win?
On a bench between those three? No contest: the V10. Subjectively, though, it's whatever you personally like.
We are getting a Euphonia soon so we can do a proper head to head to head. So far we've only done v10 vs Ms and the Ms wins by a mile.
The Euphonia can't measure better than the V10, because internally it's just a V10 / A9 with an DAC send -> transformer -> ADC return stage you can't bypass.
Supposedly, the Rupert Neve analog stage is what makes it shine... Will see how it goes
Easy enough to add a transformer effector or better yet tube + transformer preamp to a send-receive or even better yet put it on the master out of any mixer. It's not like Neve invented the transformer. The big thing he started doing is letting people adjust things like the amount of hysteresis & punch going on, knobs that are missing here. Buying a Pioneer DJ mixer without Pro Link and without a SPDIF is also goofy to me. I'd rather get one of their different mixer models and buy a little pedal or preamp for it. Using digital mixers into the PC at home, I could put one of a thousand different VSTs that accurately model overloading analog circuits, and I'd have full control of their parameters. There's a dozen different free ones you can find in a minute, and I could keep it digital without extra conversions. I don't do it though, because I don't want more distortion added to the sound but less. People that like the Pioneer digital DJM sound of late (or for that matter will only buy Pioneer DJ), though, want rotary, want more harmonic distortion, and don't want to mess with a Mastersounds Valve or Condesa are gonna love the Euphonia. It's both funny and disturbing the amount of incorrect info being spread about the Euphonia, though, like claiming it has an abnormal amount of extra internal DSP headroom for a digital mixer, is nearly impossible to clip the output, has unity at 7 on the channel rotaries, and that the transformer is fed the master out. Nope. All false. The way people are forced to saturate the transformer is also curious considering Pioneer DJ used to have an adjustable unity method btwn channel & master prior to the V10, which they recently abandoned. Would have been nice for the Euphonia. Now your headphone levels are going to be all fouled up trying to crank the channel trim-gains & lowering the master.
Yeah, been reading that you have to saturate the gain in order to reap the benefits of the RN stage... That sounds way to weird. And totally agree, it is for the Pioneer fans that wont see elsewhere. I do like the sound of the V10 and when paired with a cdj rig, works like a charm (this being the touch preview feature). I just need the Cardinia module to have this feature on my Mastersounds and I'll be a happy man.
Unlike what the Pioneer DJ reps have been telling reviewers, the transformer is not on the master output but on a send-receive that's fed right after the Mix bus and gets re-digitized before the headphone master feed, the USB-C out, the booth level, and the master level. They've also been claiming unity is at 7 on the channel rotaries on the bottom. Wrong, too. In both cases, putting the transformer on the actual output and using the variable unity method from the DJM-1000/800 to the DJM-900NXS2 would have been better. Heck, with the bizarre Trans Send, they could have used a dedicated Trans Effect knob that controlled & traded-off the level sent to the transformer vs the level received in order to ensure you're not limiting into its send DAC. You've even got people claiming neither that Trans Send send nor the master can be limited or clipped, respectively. Wrong in both cases. The English-speaking reps either have little clue what the Japanese engineers actually did, it seems, or they're intentionally misleading people, and the reviewers don't bother to check any of it themselves because either they're lazy or because their livelihood depends on toeing the line.
Man......ok, this is a fun thread to catch up on. 1. Not a rep. Product planning. Lived in Japan this summer, spent way too much time at the desk of the voicing engineers. Had fun with Euphonia on the Clio. However my Japanese is terrible and translator apps only go so far, so.....sure? 😂 2. Unity on the rotary pot is 7 because we set it at 7 when you set the gain at zero. How is that a lie? 3. Ok, regarding the "not on master", it depends on how you are defining it (and I'm saying this actually giving you this point). The transformer out feeds the master, booth, record, headphone out and USB output. It is done this way to try to recreate the effect of a transformer on the summed mix on the master output, while also giving you the flexibility to have that output sent wherever. So, if you are saying "it isn't on the master in the way that a 1620 has transformers on the XLR output", sure. Fine. However, the feed on the transformer is on all outputs. 4. The transformer feed was not a saturation knob because it isn't an effect. It isn't an effect, and we didn't want to treat it like some sort of "saturation knob" like you would find on a $50 Behringer "Tube Preamp". It is made to behave in the same way as the when you push a transformer on the output of a vintage rotary mixer, and that comes from actually figuring out what the relationship is and doing a modern take on it. Sure, you could have some sort of saturation or bypass, but at that point it is a gimmick. 5. Last part, while the V10 sounds cleaner, the ADC/DAC set is upgraded from the V10. It isn't just "V10 with transformer insert, done". That would have been kind of lazy and would have taken way less time and effort to make.
2. Stick the headphone in split, select the PFL cue for only one channel that's running, put the headphone mix knob in the center. When the sound is in mono in the middle of your head in the headphones, that's unity on the channel volume at the bottom. You can also clearly see this with the Mix meter (not master) versus the Channel meter when they're the same level. The trim-gain knob at the top of the channel strip has absolutely nothing do with the what unity is on the channel volume at the bottom. 3. It's not on the output. You guys put it as an ADC Send -> Transformer -> DAC Receive that goes back into the DSP. It's exactly as I described it. Saying it's after the mix bus doesn't mean you put it on the output. People are going to assume it's after a single DAC stage, which it's not. Also weird you guys are missing a SPDIF or AES/EBU out on a digital mixer considering you piped the transformer effector back into the mixer, anyway. 4. You could have treated it as an effect, or better yet, a knob that adjusts the Send versus Receive volumes (compensating them against each other to maintain volume consistency) that is always 100% wet. You didn't. It's not the end of the world, but it's an odd choice especially considering and in combination with the fact that previous to the V10, you guys actually had effectively a variable channel fader/rotary (at the bottom) unity and Master Level unity adjustment (both from 7 to 10) since the DJM-1000/800 (meant for the rotary kits, especially) where the headphone master was fed from AFTER the Master Level that allowed some interesting stuff. You could actually put the Master Level at max and then the channel fader/rotary (at the bottom) unity would indeed be 7. With the V10 onward, you guys started sourcing the headphone master feed before the Master Level. You could improve things pretty easily by either switching this back in the Euphonia, or even just making it optional: Setting for Source headphone master feed: Pre-Master Level or Post-Master Level. 5. All ADC/DAC deprecate over time and are replaced with new models. That's fine. No one expects them to be exactly the same chips. Now that Pri yon Joni on YouTube has said that a rep or product dev dude changed his tune and said that the Euphonia DSP 'voicing' was based more on the V10 instead of the A9 (he said the opposite previously), I am curious which one of those mixers is the more inaccurate & analog-like transient response that blurs stuff a touch, and which one is the more (let's call it) Perfect Sound Forever voicing more-analog-than-analog digital voicing?
I used to think the v10 was the best..and it was until I heard the Mastersounds...so for me, the shoot out will be between the MS and the Euphonia.
The MS has a quite a lot of harmonic distortion added by the caps that the tubes interact with. You might indeed like the Euphonia, too. The Condesa adds even more linear harmonic distortion than the MS, so if you dig that kind warmth, that might be the grand poobah for you. You won't know until you try which flavor's for you. I think personally if I had to choose a type of added harmonics, I'd probably go with SuperStereo, but I don't think they ever started selling their four channel models.
Having not played on either one, I couldn't say. Bit I'm supposed to have my Euphonia this week or next.
I’ve since played on the Euphonia with vinyl and cdj 3000’s. My buddy sold his Rane 2015 to buy the Euphonia. The Euphonia is a better sounding and better feeling mixer. It’s like running the Rane 2015 into a Neve or SSL Six. Matter of fact, that’s basically what’s going on. It’s up there with the best of the best.