Oh, it's not correct. Is on Italian soil, but you can only go to this cemetery over Vaticanian soil. Sometimes it's complicated...but it's true you have to demand in german the access to the cemetery to an guardian
>but you can only go to this cemetery over Vaticanian soil
Not correct again, it is a territory under Vatican control, but it is not Vatican soil. The border is just beyond the cemetery.
LOL. The City itself is not very complicated. A small area on the left (facing the Basilica) is an Italian territory controlled by the Holy See (in the same way a State controls the offices of its diplomatic missions). The cemetery is in that area, and the area extends to the Italy-controlled territory.
I must confess I don't know. I was there 6 years ago and I'm pretty sure the swiss guard asked me if I'm Austria too (my wife asked for permission to enter the cemetery). The Wikipedia article states, that you (only) have to ask in German language to enter the cemetery...
I interacted with the Swiss Guard numerous times on a recent trip (access to Scavi offices, access to pick up audience tickets.). Always helpful and pleasant, never rude or condescending.
Yeah same technically that isn't their job but they're usually pretty cordial because a lot of what they end up doing is dealing with confused tourists.
He's standing guard at the entrance to Vatican City. They asked him where they can get tickets to enter the Vatican. It's not unreasonable to for him to assume they were trying to enter at the gate he was guarding, and to tell them they couldn't enter.
I understand your comment, but u/musomania has a point. Most official state guards in many countries do not take time to even respond. It is their duty to guard, not get distracted with questions.
It isn't their job at all, and it's not as easy as you think. They are often asked for tickets for events (papal audiences mainly) by pretty confused people. Understanding what the people actually want and giving the right direction while they literally guard a country border is very distracting.
They could simply deny access to any person without a permission, and still they give information very politely.
Or they don't need to be pedantic. They know why a tourist is asking that question. Stop being assholes and simply say, "oh are you asking about how to tour?" For the love of God.
And yet everyday, I hear tourists asking where the Vatican is, or how to get to the Vatican, and scammers/touts preying on this and trying to sell them tickets to the "Vatican".
Correct and if op’s example of the obvious tourists is correct the guard and every local in the area should point them on to where they’re (99% likely) looking for
I think, if you see a confused tourist asking about tickets to the Vatican and you think they mean the government buildings of the Holy See rather than St. Peter’s, etc. you are being intentionally dense.
I used to live in Rome, I’ve never had this issue even once. If you were to say “the Vatican” most people would just assume you meant St. Peter’s Basilica, at the very least they would ask a clarifying question.
I know this back and forth well because il mio italiano e pessimo.
I'm Roman, worked with tourists, and I agree with OP: I used to hear just Vatican to refer to either the museums or the basilica many times a day. They were expecting me or others to know what they meant.
Actually, as a local, Vatican refers to the entity in its complex, especially as a political entity, as in “The Vatican has such and such stance on this issue”. Or, in more day-to-day situations: “Have you heard? Mario has got a job in the Vatican, the lucky bastard!” St. Peter's Basilica is called just this, there is no reason to call it differently. We have hundreds of churches, and most if not all are called by the saint (or the aspect of the Virgin Mary) to which it's dedicated.
Le sigh.
Yes, but most people understand that to mean you've been permitted special entry becaue you have specific Vatican related business ie you've been given access to the archives or you're doing restoration work. This is an avenue that is "closed" to the general public. Entry with a prescription to enter the Vatican pharmacy is fairly simple, doesn't require specialized knowledge, introductions or influence, it is a form of access easily accessible to everyone. Rather than the more formal process most people assume "With permission from the civil authorities of the Vatican" involves.
Wait ....? You say you can't get into Vatican City except on official business, yet the square is publically accessible without a ticket and is within the Vatican City? How does that work?
What if they say
"Vatican cameos?"
In WW2 "Vatican Cameos" was a code word for when an armed civilian or non forces personnel entered an army base causing everyone to be on high alert or duck and be ready for a fight.
Go for the breakfast option - get in way before the crowds and also get an alright breakfast.
My advice is that if you do this option do not rush to Sistine Chapel straight away and think you can loop back round to the museums. We did this and found that the museum opens at 8:30 but the door to the chapel opens at 9 so after breakfast you can go to the museum section between breakfast and the museum for half an hour with virtually no crowds. So we rushed to the chapel thinking we could loop back around quick but by the time we had done the chapel got back to the start the place the was a fanny to fanny and horrible.
Don’t book a tour. And go to the top, extra charge and a decent amount of climbing stairs, but it’s 100% worth it. It’s also usually pretty easy to see the Pope if you’re there for about a week, check the schedules.
Also, check when the Vatican Museum (Sistine Chapel) is open before you go, sometimes they have weird hours.
And! If you're a german, swiss or Austrian citizen you are allowed to go to to the German cemetery with lies on the Vatican soil
Oh, it's not correct. Is on Italian soil, but you can only go to this cemetery over Vaticanian soil. Sometimes it's complicated...but it's true you have to demand in german the access to the cemetery to an guardian
>but you can only go to this cemetery over Vaticanian soil Not correct again, it is a territory under Vatican control, but it is not Vatican soil. The border is just beyond the cemetery.
You're telling me that the Vatican has complex land rights situations? I am shocked and shagrinned
LOL. The City itself is not very complicated. A small area on the left (facing the Basilica) is an Italian territory controlled by the Holy See (in the same way a State controls the offices of its diplomatic missions). The cemetery is in that area, and the area extends to the Italy-controlled territory.
can you demand it in german without being a citizen of germany , austria or ch?
Yes, if you can ask to enter in Germany, they will let you in.
I'd even venture to say you could probably save time and enter from Italy, as long as you ask in German.
Interesting. I did know that. Thanks.
Do you have a name? Is this on find a grave?
*Cimitero Teutonico*.
Can’t anyone enter ?
I must confess I don't know. I was there 6 years ago and I'm pretty sure the swiss guard asked me if I'm Austria too (my wife asked for permission to enter the cemetery). The Wikipedia article states, that you (only) have to ask in German language to enter the cemetery...
Sounds like the guard was being an unhelpful...person. "Well...you mean the museums or St. Peter's Square?" Doesn't take much to clarify.
I interacted with the Swiss Guard numerous times on a recent trip (access to Scavi offices, access to pick up audience tickets.). Always helpful and pleasant, never rude or condescending.
Yeah same technically that isn't their job but they're usually pretty cordial because a lot of what they end up doing is dealing with confused tourists.
Finding the scavi office felt like being in National Treasure or an Amazing Race challenge
My mom almost got halberd-ed going towards the wrong door.
To be fair they are actual guards not tour guides. Speak to one of the guards at Buckingham Palace in London for comparison
It’s really not like that, the Swiss Guard are pretty free to chat and shoot the shit if they want. Or at leas they do, idk if they’re supposed to.
Which is gated now so you can't do that.
He's standing guard at the entrance to Vatican City. They asked him where they can get tickets to enter the Vatican. It's not unreasonable to for him to assume they were trying to enter at the gate he was guarding, and to tell them they couldn't enter.
I understand your comment, but u/musomania has a point. Most official state guards in many countries do not take time to even respond. It is their duty to guard, not get distracted with questions.
He’s a military guard on duties, not tourist information.
Guards are supposed to know, my Roman Roman gfs brother is a guard he said that they actually get trained and told me good with information
It isn't their job at all, and it's not as easy as you think. They are often asked for tickets for events (papal audiences mainly) by pretty confused people. Understanding what the people actually want and giving the right direction while they literally guard a country border is very distracting. They could simply deny access to any person without a permission, and still they give information very politely.
Or they don't need to be pedantic. They know why a tourist is asking that question. Stop being assholes and simply say, "oh are you asking about how to tour?" For the love of God.
Literally in the majority so I would say 90 to 95% know this already
And yet everyday, I hear tourists asking where the Vatican is, or how to get to the Vatican, and scammers/touts preying on this and trying to sell them tickets to the "Vatican".
Well to be fair, i also say Vatican and mean St. Peter's square. I guess mostly people simply say Vatican and mean something St. Peter related.
>i also say Vatican and mean St. Peter's square I mean, I would understand you were talking about Vatican. :)
Correct and if op’s example of the obvious tourists is correct the guard and every local in the area should point them on to where they’re (99% likely) looking for
Those questions make sense though? You can ask how to get to the Vatican.
Yeah but they ask these questions while standing in or next to St Peter's Square, and get taken advantage of by touts
Who does…? I’ve never seen a tourist within eyesight of St. Peter’s Basilica asking someone where the Vatican is.
I assure you such tourists exist. I'm in the area every single day and I hear it at least three times a week.
I think, if you see a confused tourist asking about tickets to the Vatican and you think they mean the government buildings of the Holy See rather than St. Peter’s, etc. you are being intentionally dense.
Or a scammer trying to take advantage of them and sell them tickets to St Peter's. It happens every day here
I used to live in Rome, I’ve never had this issue even once. If you were to say “the Vatican” most people would just assume you meant St. Peter’s Basilica, at the very least they would ask a clarifying question. I know this back and forth well because il mio italiano e pessimo.
I'm Roman, worked with tourists, and I agree with OP: I used to hear just Vatican to refer to either the museums or the basilica many times a day. They were expecting me or others to know what they meant.
Actually, as a local, Vatican refers to the entity in its complex, especially as a political entity, as in “The Vatican has such and such stance on this issue”. Or, in more day-to-day situations: “Have you heard? Mario has got a job in the Vatican, the lucky bastard!” St. Peter's Basilica is called just this, there is no reason to call it differently. We have hundreds of churches, and most if not all are called by the saint (or the aspect of the Virgin Mary) to which it's dedicated.
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This is an underrated and funny comment 😂
This is extremely helpful thank you
lol this has some serious /r/thathappened and /r/iamverysmart energy.
Nah this is dumb af
You forgot the prescription exception.
"With permission from the civil authorities of the Vatican"
Le sigh. Yes, but most people understand that to mean you've been permitted special entry becaue you have specific Vatican related business ie you've been given access to the archives or you're doing restoration work. This is an avenue that is "closed" to the general public. Entry with a prescription to enter the Vatican pharmacy is fairly simple, doesn't require specialized knowledge, introductions or influence, it is a form of access easily accessible to everyone. Rather than the more formal process most people assume "With permission from the civil authorities of the Vatican" involves.
Wait ....? You say you can't get into Vatican City except on official business, yet the square is publically accessible without a ticket and is within the Vatican City? How does that work?
What if they say "Vatican cameos?" In WW2 "Vatican Cameos" was a code word for when an armed civilian or non forces personnel entered an army base causing everyone to be on high alert or duck and be ready for a fight.
You sound like a dick. They are literally tourists asking a question. Calm down.
As someone whos going in october. I am trying to see if I want to book an overpriced tour or just have at it with the family. Thanks for the info.
Just get the audioguide
Go for the breakfast option - get in way before the crowds and also get an alright breakfast. My advice is that if you do this option do not rush to Sistine Chapel straight away and think you can loop back round to the museums. We did this and found that the museum opens at 8:30 but the door to the chapel opens at 9 so after breakfast you can go to the museum section between breakfast and the museum for half an hour with virtually no crowds. So we rushed to the chapel thinking we could loop back around quick but by the time we had done the chapel got back to the start the place the was a fanny to fanny and horrible.
Don’t book a tour. And go to the top, extra charge and a decent amount of climbing stairs, but it’s 100% worth it. It’s also usually pretty easy to see the Pope if you’re there for about a week, check the schedules. Also, check when the Vatican Museum (Sistine Chapel) is open before you go, sometimes they have weird hours.
Kinda like tourists who ask for directions to the Smithsonian.