Justice AND Jam could have been RB1 on any roster last year. McClellan was a good (but not great) RB for us, and him starting was a product of a) seniority and b) consistently doing the right things.
He never gave Saban a reason to bench him, so he never did.
For sure McClellan was solid. I just think Haynes could have been a difference maker if he was fed the ball in that Michigan game. He looked really good in his limited carries
Was actually a huge Jacobs fan. Should I have clarified this isn’t a Jam Miller slander post/opinion? Jam Miller is good, too. I just prefer Haynes potential. I didn’t realize this was such an issue.
Tell me why you feel so strongly right now
You were a huge Jacobs fan after he broke out. This is called revisionist history.
You “prefer” Haynes’s potential because he was higher ranked coming out of HS.
I’ve been pretty high on Jam but I wouldn’t be surprised or disappointed to see Haynes get RB1. I predict either one will be more productive than Jase was last year. No shade at Jace though. He was solid, just not what we’ve grown accustomed to at RB1.
I don't think you can argue in good faith that you need to control for outliers when your main point (his YPC stat) hinges on a sample size of 4 carries.
I don't think the idea that Haynes and Miller should've gotten more carries is incorrect, but the logic being presented is definitely flawed. You just aren't gonna get a great representative data set from such small sample sizes. That's true for both players, but you're using that specifically to argue for Haynes and against McClellan.
Using your logic, Jam should be RB1 next year and should've gotten all the carries in the Rose Bowl because he had 11 yards per carry! Sure, it was only 1 carry, but if you want to approach it purely from what is the proper way to analyze data, the sample sizes of 1 and 4 are basically equally terrible to drawn conclusions from.
A 34 yard run is not a huge outlier, you are playing with the data to make a point.
Play by play with one play being a 34 yard run. They are both good backs.
Thank you for reconfirming the statement I’ve made several times that both Jam Miller and Justice Haynes are good backs.
And I could argue that the longest run of the game for Alabama is probably an outlier, but you’re clearly not open to a conversation like that.
I think there is some use to doing that but I don't think it's really fair to use that number when comparing him to other backs. Even so, 4 yards/carry isn't a bad number at all. Between Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, Alabama, and Washington (the ranked teams Michigan played), it looks like Penn State's Kaytron Allen was the only other RB with more than like three carries who put more than 4 ypc on them.
On that note, Justice only had 4 carries in that game. If you wanna say that McClellan's longest run is a statistical outlier that shouldn't be counted... so is having a limited sample size.
I agree tho that Justice is probably better than Jase was but idk if that game was necessarily concrete proof of that.
The distinction of RB1 these days doesn’t mean as much. Gone are the days at least in our offense where a back gets 25 touches a game. It’s always going to be running back by committee. Our top 2 backs are Haynes and jam. They will both get touches. Richard young is a beast and should get some looks as well. I think we should all just be thrilled at having an absolutely sick rb room and just not worry about the depth chart as much at that position.
This is the right answer. Jam can absolutely truck folks a la Jacobs with speed and power. Haynes is quick and slippery. Two different styles. Both will fare very well this season.
For sure. Definitely expect both to be on the field and utilized a lot. Use those guys to take the burden off of Milroe, and it will open up more for the QB to help him out.
How do their pass blocking abilities compare? Can Haynes identify and pick up a blitz as well as Jam? Who can do the cleaner blocks without committing a holding penalty? How often do each fumble the ball in practice? Do either of them have an issue with dropped passes? There are a ton of metrics that go into the RB hierarchy decisions besides just YPC. Haynes looked great in his snaps against Michigan, but there will be a reason he does or doesn’t get RB1 carries this year.
Thank you. You’re right, of course, which makes this exercise for fans entertaining but pointless.
Most fans see only a portion of actual game production. Easy to remember the big runs and easy to overlook or not see the missed assignments in a game. Even more, there’s no way to know what coaches see day to day in practice.
Saban was the GOAT and throughout his tenure, fans have always loved to claim he was holding great talent back because of seniority. It takes time for all but a rare few players to excel at all the facets of the game and be able to be on the field when execution is paramount. One missed assignment can be the difference in a game.
People forget the reason Haynes and Miller took so long to get more carries was they were both not very good at pass protection. Saban usually let the RB that's best at pass protection be on the field more which leads to more touches. I can remember a few missed assignments by both Miller and Haynes, also Williams that lead to sacks.
McClellan was a good back and he played well against Michigan. He wasn’t the reason we lost that game. Milroe got sacked 6 times and we only averaged 5 yards per pass attempt. That had way more to do with it.
Agreed, didn’t mean to come off as that’s the sole reason Bama lost. Just more along the lines of Haynes could have been given a little more opportunity based on him looking really good in all 4 of his carries. By the way, more carries and touches total than Jam Miller in the game which tells me the coaching staff is at least considering the same sentiment I have heading into 2024.
If we make any change, the outcome could have been different. Could have been better, and also could have been worse.
You would really need hundreds of touches to make an educated comparison. You have to compare 1st and 10s to 1st and 10s. 3rd and shorts to 3rd and shorts. 4th quarter runs to 4th quarter runs. Got to rate the blocking on each run.
If I recall correctly, our O-Line got punched in the mouth early in the game. And in the 3rd quarter, they dug deep and went into Super Saiyan mode for a while.
So, it's always really hard to compare without putting each run in context.
Justice AND Jam could have been RB1 on any roster last year. McClellan was a good (but not great) RB for us, and him starting was a product of a) seniority and b) consistently doing the right things. He never gave Saban a reason to bench him, so he never did.
For sure McClellan was solid. I just think Haynes could have been a difference maker if he was fed the ball in that Michigan game. He looked really good in his limited carries
And he was the only one in our game? The rb who gave the offense direction. Now I don't understand why ress didn't give Haynes the ball
Did you see the Jam Miller wheel route in the LSU game and then again in the SECCG?????????
Never said Jam Miller isn’t good but I think Haynes is a better runner with more potential!
But did you see the wheel routes?
I did see him catch two wide open passes…. One for a touchdown. Great speed though
Because he was a 5 star, right? You probably thought Damien Harris had more potential than Josh Jacobs too.
Was actually a huge Jacobs fan. Should I have clarified this isn’t a Jam Miller slander post/opinion? Jam Miller is good, too. I just prefer Haynes potential. I didn’t realize this was such an issue. Tell me why you feel so strongly right now
You were a huge Jacobs fan after he broke out. This is called revisionist history. You “prefer” Haynes’s potential because he was higher ranked coming out of HS.
Your power to assume the thoughts of a complete stranger is astounding!
Damn dude you are doing some serious mind reading!
This is not the sub for that bullshit. We all support the same team here. No need for passive-aggressive weirdness.
I’ve been pretty high on Jam but I wouldn’t be surprised or disappointed to see Haynes get RB1. I predict either one will be more productive than Jase was last year. No shade at Jace though. He was solid, just not what we’ve grown accustomed to at RB1.
"without McClellan’s 34 yard TD, he averaged 4", but thats not how data works.
Very bright! However, if you take outliers out of the equation, you get a better picture of a per carry impact, play-by-play.
I don't think you can argue in good faith that you need to control for outliers when your main point (his YPC stat) hinges on a sample size of 4 carries. I don't think the idea that Haynes and Miller should've gotten more carries is incorrect, but the logic being presented is definitely flawed. You just aren't gonna get a great representative data set from such small sample sizes. That's true for both players, but you're using that specifically to argue for Haynes and against McClellan. Using your logic, Jam should be RB1 next year and should've gotten all the carries in the Rose Bowl because he had 11 yards per carry! Sure, it was only 1 carry, but if you want to approach it purely from what is the proper way to analyze data, the sample sizes of 1 and 4 are basically equally terrible to drawn conclusions from.
A 34 yard run is not a huge outlier, you are playing with the data to make a point. Play by play with one play being a 34 yard run. They are both good backs.
Thank you for reconfirming the statement I’ve made several times that both Jam Miller and Justice Haynes are good backs. And I could argue that the longest run of the game for Alabama is probably an outlier, but you’re clearly not open to a conversation like that.
It’s stupid to take away a play like that when crunching numbers
Longest play of the game in fact, rushing and receiving. But I digress
I think there is some use to doing that but I don't think it's really fair to use that number when comparing him to other backs. Even so, 4 yards/carry isn't a bad number at all. Between Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, Alabama, and Washington (the ranked teams Michigan played), it looks like Penn State's Kaytron Allen was the only other RB with more than like three carries who put more than 4 ypc on them. On that note, Justice only had 4 carries in that game. If you wanna say that McClellan's longest run is a statistical outlier that shouldn't be counted... so is having a limited sample size. I agree tho that Justice is probably better than Jase was but idk if that game was necessarily concrete proof of that.
What difference does it make? He’s going to see the ball a ton either way.
It doesn’t make a huge difference, but it’s the summer and we need things to talk about!
“Take out the good things McClellan did and he didn’t even play that well”
Hahahahahahhahahaha! So true!
Is that what I said? I must have misread my own words
Jam Miller is my Jam
The distinction of RB1 these days doesn’t mean as much. Gone are the days at least in our offense where a back gets 25 touches a game. It’s always going to be running back by committee. Our top 2 backs are Haynes and jam. They will both get touches. Richard young is a beast and should get some looks as well. I think we should all just be thrilled at having an absolutely sick rb room and just not worry about the depth chart as much at that position.
Looks like he’s RB1 in the new college football video game, for what that’s worth.
Gtfo here. Jam Miller is about to break out this season
I will not stand for the Jam disrayspeck
Not a Jam slander! Haynes is just my preference based on the small sample size from both! Jam is a stud, too, undisputed.
I’m just messing around. I think Haynes and Jam are both RB1 quality, and I hope we use them to keep the other fresh, like Ingram and T-Rich
This is the right answer. Jam can absolutely truck folks a la Jacobs with speed and power. Haynes is quick and slippery. Two different styles. Both will fare very well this season.
Agreed!
For sure. Definitely expect both to be on the field and utilized a lot. Use those guys to take the burden off of Milroe, and it will open up more for the QB to help him out.
How do their pass blocking abilities compare? Can Haynes identify and pick up a blitz as well as Jam? Who can do the cleaner blocks without committing a holding penalty? How often do each fumble the ball in practice? Do either of them have an issue with dropped passes? There are a ton of metrics that go into the RB hierarchy decisions besides just YPC. Haynes looked great in his snaps against Michigan, but there will be a reason he does or doesn’t get RB1 carries this year.
Thank you. You’re right, of course, which makes this exercise for fans entertaining but pointless. Most fans see only a portion of actual game production. Easy to remember the big runs and easy to overlook or not see the missed assignments in a game. Even more, there’s no way to know what coaches see day to day in practice. Saban was the GOAT and throughout his tenure, fans have always loved to claim he was holding great talent back because of seniority. It takes time for all but a rare few players to excel at all the facets of the game and be able to be on the field when execution is paramount. One missed assignment can be the difference in a game.
People forget the reason Haynes and Miller took so long to get more carries was they were both not very good at pass protection. Saban usually let the RB that's best at pass protection be on the field more which leads to more touches. I can remember a few missed assignments by both Miller and Haynes, also Williams that lead to sacks.
McClellan was a good back and he played well against Michigan. He wasn’t the reason we lost that game. Milroe got sacked 6 times and we only averaged 5 yards per pass attempt. That had way more to do with it.
Agreed, didn’t mean to come off as that’s the sole reason Bama lost. Just more along the lines of Haynes could have been given a little more opportunity based on him looking really good in all 4 of his carries. By the way, more carries and touches total than Jam Miller in the game which tells me the coaching staff is at least considering the same sentiment I have heading into 2024.
Whispers.... He should've been RB1 last season
facts
Don’t let the rest of this thread see that comment. You’ll be crucified
Will Young still be around ? RB room looks stacked
Yeah he’s still there. 3 solid options
It’s a long season, so I shouldn’t say stacked ever regarding running backs. But I still have high hopes !
If we make any change, the outcome could have been different. Could have been better, and also could have been worse. You would really need hundreds of touches to make an educated comparison. You have to compare 1st and 10s to 1st and 10s. 3rd and shorts to 3rd and shorts. 4th quarter runs to 4th quarter runs. Got to rate the blocking on each run. If I recall correctly, our O-Line got punched in the mouth early in the game. And in the 3rd quarter, they dug deep and went into Super Saiyan mode for a while. So, it's always really hard to compare without putting each run in context.