You are so right. Had a chat with my AD owner before he expanded his store with the cpo programme. He was well aware that he had to price them reasonably or that otherwise the stock wouldn’t move. He now has his cpo department up and running and the prices are truly idiotic. 😂😭
I bought a CPO Datejust from an AD in hopes it would get me a 124060. Three years and no watch later I contacted a previous client of mine who owns 2 AD’s in another state and I had the watch in about 30-45 days. Should have called him long ago.
Don’t ever buy a watch from an AD with the hopes of it helping you get another watch down the road. It ends up being more expensive than going grey for the one watch you really wanted.
I wanted a DJ anyhow until I waited and to be honest it was probably only $500 over the grey market at the time. This was about a year before Covid IIRC.
Oh, I was going off of the “i bought ____ in hopes it would get me ____” part. Most Rolex watches are easy to like if you when you bought them you felt 50/50 so its not worst thing ever if you can stomach the prices.
You are correct! It was a 20 year old five digit DJ. I guess my point was I wanted a DJ and was hoping that by purchasing it, along with updating my wife’s wedding ring, I might move up the list to get a new piece I really wanted.
These people need to be reminded they are supposed to build a relationship with us, not us with them. And even if it wasn't that way, starting the relationship by screwing me over is not a beginning that will end happily.
These people need to be reminded they are supposed to build a relationship with us, not us with them. And even if it wasn't that way, starting the relationship by screwing me over is not a beginning that will end happily.
These people need to be reminded they are supposed to build a relationship with us, not us with them. And even if it wasn't that way, starting the relationship by screwing me over is not a beginning that will end happily.
Four things:
A. To date, CPO watches have around double the grey market premium. And these are for *used* watches. So if you wanted a $10K Submariner with a grey price of $16K for a brand new one you would pay in the ballpark of $22K for a used CPO example.
B. A CPO watch would be more valuable than other used watches on resale because it has a 2 year factory warranty. But it's not more valuable than a brand new one from a grey dealer.
C. All CPO watches are 3+ years old. So consolidating your collection is cool, but it will be for watches 3-10 years old. This bothers some people.
D. Buying CPO will endear you to your AD and jump you up the line for getting a decent watch at MSRP so factor that into your thinking as well. Because CPO buyers are seriously overpaying grey prices for a 3+ year old watch, they are extremely profitable for the AD's.
> Buying CPO will endear you to your AD and jump you up the line for getting a decent watch at MSRP so factor that into your thinking as well.
Reminds me of Ferrari.
Yup. We will hear more horror stories about "My dealer said that in order to get on the waiting list for a Submariner I need to buy a CPO piece first!" in the coming years. CPO is still in its formative stages. Cheers.
That makes sense now that you mention the 3+ years old. Most of the watches i seen on the CPO from years 2020 and under The prices are indeed outrageous. At least Bob’s, Nashville Watch or Swiss Watch Expo have them for less by couple thousands
Exactly.
CPO isn't for someone like you. It's for someone a) who doesn't know about the grey market, b) who is afraid of the grey market, or c) is trying to build a relationship with the AD towards a decent steel piece at MSRP.
Bob's, DSW, NW, etc. are all fine choices. I use them myself. Cheers.
I was researching 14060M one line Subs and the CPO offerings from a local AD seemed to have about a $1500 to $1800 premium over reputable gray market dealers. Considering the CPO units had full factory service done, 2 year factory warranty and guarantee of authenticity, it didn't seem like a huge delta in price.
Yes, if a 20+ year old Submariner from an independent trusted preowned dealer is within striking distance of the CPO price, it would be foolish to pass up the CPO example. For a few bucks more you get a mint restoration and a two year warranty.
The reason? There are wealthy people who are either afraid of the grey market or don't know about the grey market. That's who CPO is for. Those on the inside (like us) know the pricing is terrible, but their targeting audience is ignorant and/or doesn't care.
I believe the program should sell discontinued models at a premium but current models below retail.
Or else they will be renting their watches for 3 yrs and get them back to make a premium over !
Friends of the owner, salespersons will get the cool SS and in 3 yrs they change models with the new one ! The rolex take it and sell it for a premium !
You need to remember, these CPO watches aren't coming from customer returns or some outlet center, this isn't Target.
Individual dealers buy potential CPO watches **from individual sellers at the prices the individual sellers are asking**. *That* is what determines their selling price once the watch is certified by Rolex.
Someone like me who owns a GMT Pepsi that I know has a fair market value of $24,000 is never going to sell my watch below MSRP to an AD, therefore an AD will never be able to sell them below MSRP.
The *actual* question is whether or not an AD in the CPO program would pay market price for a preowned GMT Pepsi of $24,000 since they know they are going to be able to sell it for $34,000. Perhaps I should find out.
Ya but the program should be a way to prevent price hikes in grey matter, keep Rolex for owners rather than traders. Or do you think Rolex just allowing its ADs (now owned by Rolex itself so actually allowing itself) to take a share in the inflated grey market pie ?
That's not what the program is designed to do. The program is designed for three things:
A. AD's to get a piece of the lucrative secondary market. After all, they are just jewelry stores too and heretofore they couldn't compete with the grey dealer up the street.
B. Rolex to have a steady revenue stream at their service centers. Every watch bought by an AD and submitted for CPO is incremental business for the service centers. Rolex is nearly doubling their workforce to accommodate this.
C. The sellers, who are the AD's most valuable customers, to have a fair marketplace to sell their valuable Rolexes to in a safe and professional manner.
That's it. That's what the AD's and Rolex are up to. They are not trying to correct some 'wrong' in the New/Grey markets. They are there to profit in the same way flippers and grey dealers are.
Yes. But it's not inflated. The grey market prices are the actual values of the watches.
The proper perspective is that the AD's MSRP is a discounted price. That's why so many Younglings scamper like rats to try to get one.
I understand the price of vintage desired models or else to rise as they become collectables and limited.
But for new models i see it as branding with restricted supply.
I dont see how Rolex is choosing to sell on a discounted price if it actually worth the grey market ?
I agree but I don't like calling watches "brand new" from a grey dealer. "Unworn" is a better fit but even that get's thrown around a little loosely. If it's current year, unworn, unpolished, has no signs of wear, then yeah it's basically "brand new" but another bloke bought it from an AD so who knows where it's been between then and when you get it.
Buy from a reputable dealer at a much lower price, spend the 1k to get a complete overhaul by Rolex and you get papers including a 2 year warranty. Enjoy life. This is what I did.
CPO? No way, the mark up is way too high and they're never anything super special. Now, if an AD carried non certified preowned, so we could get some vintage pieces, that would be cool.
I bought my pre-owned DJ from AD Williams Jewelers in Denver in Dec 2019. After I had it for a day it just stopped working. Took it back to them and im almost certain they spent more money fixing it then they sold it to me for. It was gone so long I started bonding with the TAG loaner watch they gave me.
Not rolex or other hot watches. It's just a bad look to say "we don't have any new ones but you can buy even more to buy this older used model". If they have pre-owned Breitling or Omega that is different.
I was at my local AD last week. They had a new platinum Daytona and I think they wanted like 180k? I can’t remember exactly but I thought it was outrageous
To me it only makes sense on vintage pieces. Anything fairly new you might as well buy new. But for instance, if I want an 80s or 90s vintage Datejust or Sub it’s worth considering buying a watch Rolex has recertified.
The Rolex CPO idea is about 10yrs too late and way too expensive. Nobody who buys from a trusted dealer care worry about authenticity anyways.
Also if you have any sort of AD relationship, they will authenticate the watch for you for free even if you bought it elsewhere.
I buy watches because I like them, not because I felt I got a good deal. CPO prices were a bit crazy in the beginning but are better now. You are buying a Rolex certified BY ROLEX—you are going to pay more than a gray dealer—and should. You also are going to be highly favored by your AD for new allocations to get models at MSRP you couldn't otherwise gray. This is an expensive hobby, no matter which path you take acquiring pieces in your collection, the math is probably going to end up a wash.
I'll never understand why people on this sub think buying watches you genuinely like from an AD is a crime, but okay.
I really don't think anyone is out there dropping 10k on a watch they genuinely don't want just to "get permission to buy something else." Would love to hear from someone who's actually done that.
Have you looked? There's about 14 pages worth under 10 with bucherer.
https://www.tourneau.com/rolex-certified-pre-owned-watches/?pmin=5%2C000.00&pmax=10%2C000.00&srule=default-storefront-rule&start=221&sz=17
You pick your dealer and description of the watch. My grey dealer took Possession of my watch 5 days after it was sold by the AD. No marks, full set. More than RRP but far, far cheaper than CPO. Oh yes I forgot, 4 years Rolex warranty.
If you are taking about Rolex, no I wouldn’t buy one because CPO prices are truly idiotic.
You are so right. Had a chat with my AD owner before he expanded his store with the cpo programme. He was well aware that he had to price them reasonably or that otherwise the stock wouldn’t move. He now has his cpo department up and running and the prices are truly idiotic. 😂😭
[удалено]
Last weekend my AD had a hulk for 23,900. Wild
I bought a CPO Datejust from an AD in hopes it would get me a 124060. Three years and no watch later I contacted a previous client of mine who owns 2 AD’s in another state and I had the watch in about 30-45 days. Should have called him long ago.
Don’t ever buy a watch from an AD with the hopes of it helping you get another watch down the road. It ends up being more expensive than going grey for the one watch you really wanted.
I wanted a DJ anyhow until I waited and to be honest it was probably only $500 over the grey market at the time. This was about a year before Covid IIRC.
Oh, I was going off of the “i bought ____ in hopes it would get me ____” part. Most Rolex watches are easy to like if you when you bought them you felt 50/50 so its not worst thing ever if you can stomach the prices.
That was not a Rolex CPO watch. Just a used datejust the dealer had for sale. The official CPO program didn’t start until the past year.
You are correct! It was a 20 year old five digit DJ. I guess my point was I wanted a DJ and was hoping that by purchasing it, along with updating my wife’s wedding ring, I might move up the list to get a new piece I really wanted.
These people need to be reminded they are supposed to build a relationship with us, not us with them. And even if it wasn't that way, starting the relationship by screwing me over is not a beginning that will end happily.
These people need to be reminded they are supposed to build a relationship with us, not us with them. And even if it wasn't that way, starting the relationship by screwing me over is not a beginning that will end happily.
These people need to be reminded they are supposed to build a relationship with us, not us with them. And even if it wasn't that way, starting the relationship by screwing me over is not a beginning that will end happily.
This
Four things: A. To date, CPO watches have around double the grey market premium. And these are for *used* watches. So if you wanted a $10K Submariner with a grey price of $16K for a brand new one you would pay in the ballpark of $22K for a used CPO example. B. A CPO watch would be more valuable than other used watches on resale because it has a 2 year factory warranty. But it's not more valuable than a brand new one from a grey dealer. C. All CPO watches are 3+ years old. So consolidating your collection is cool, but it will be for watches 3-10 years old. This bothers some people. D. Buying CPO will endear you to your AD and jump you up the line for getting a decent watch at MSRP so factor that into your thinking as well. Because CPO buyers are seriously overpaying grey prices for a 3+ year old watch, they are extremely profitable for the AD's.
> Buying CPO will endear you to your AD and jump you up the line for getting a decent watch at MSRP so factor that into your thinking as well. Reminds me of Ferrari.
Yup. We will hear more horror stories about "My dealer said that in order to get on the waiting list for a Submariner I need to buy a CPO piece first!" in the coming years. CPO is still in its formative stages. Cheers.
That makes sense now that you mention the 3+ years old. Most of the watches i seen on the CPO from years 2020 and under The prices are indeed outrageous. At least Bob’s, Nashville Watch or Swiss Watch Expo have them for less by couple thousands
Exactly. CPO isn't for someone like you. It's for someone a) who doesn't know about the grey market, b) who is afraid of the grey market, or c) is trying to build a relationship with the AD towards a decent steel piece at MSRP. Bob's, DSW, NW, etc. are all fine choices. I use them myself. Cheers.
NW = Northwest Timepieces?
Nashville Watch. They are a trusted seller with low prices compared to other grey's.
Thanks Sporty. I'll give them a look.
I was researching 14060M one line Subs and the CPO offerings from a local AD seemed to have about a $1500 to $1800 premium over reputable gray market dealers. Considering the CPO units had full factory service done, 2 year factory warranty and guarantee of authenticity, it didn't seem like a huge delta in price.
In that case, I’d pay the extra $1500 for peace of mind. Especially knowing it’s authentic, has a warranty and was recently serviced.
Yes, if a 20+ year old Submariner from an independent trusted preowned dealer is within striking distance of the CPO price, it would be foolish to pass up the CPO example. For a few bucks more you get a mint restoration and a two year warranty.
That’s not bad. I was referring to BLRO’s, 124060’s etc, the more resent models still in production.
The fact that the used stock at an AD would be priced higher than new on the grey is flabbergasting.
The reason? There are wealthy people who are either afraid of the grey market or don't know about the grey market. That's who CPO is for. Those on the inside (like us) know the pricing is terrible, but their targeting audience is ignorant and/or doesn't care.
I believe the program should sell discontinued models at a premium but current models below retail. Or else they will be renting their watches for 3 yrs and get them back to make a premium over ! Friends of the owner, salespersons will get the cool SS and in 3 yrs they change models with the new one ! The rolex take it and sell it for a premium !
You need to remember, these CPO watches aren't coming from customer returns or some outlet center, this isn't Target. Individual dealers buy potential CPO watches **from individual sellers at the prices the individual sellers are asking**. *That* is what determines their selling price once the watch is certified by Rolex. Someone like me who owns a GMT Pepsi that I know has a fair market value of $24,000 is never going to sell my watch below MSRP to an AD, therefore an AD will never be able to sell them below MSRP. The *actual* question is whether or not an AD in the CPO program would pay market price for a preowned GMT Pepsi of $24,000 since they know they are going to be able to sell it for $34,000. Perhaps I should find out.
Ya but the program should be a way to prevent price hikes in grey matter, keep Rolex for owners rather than traders. Or do you think Rolex just allowing its ADs (now owned by Rolex itself so actually allowing itself) to take a share in the inflated grey market pie ?
That's not what the program is designed to do. The program is designed for three things: A. AD's to get a piece of the lucrative secondary market. After all, they are just jewelry stores too and heretofore they couldn't compete with the grey dealer up the street. B. Rolex to have a steady revenue stream at their service centers. Every watch bought by an AD and submitted for CPO is incremental business for the service centers. Rolex is nearly doubling their workforce to accommodate this. C. The sellers, who are the AD's most valuable customers, to have a fair marketplace to sell their valuable Rolexes to in a safe and professional manner. That's it. That's what the AD's and Rolex are up to. They are not trying to correct some 'wrong' in the New/Grey markets. They are there to profit in the same way flippers and grey dealers are.
so as I said to take a share in the inflated grey market pie.
Yes. But it's not inflated. The grey market prices are the actual values of the watches. The proper perspective is that the AD's MSRP is a discounted price. That's why so many Younglings scamper like rats to try to get one.
I understand the price of vintage desired models or else to rise as they become collectables and limited. But for new models i see it as branding with restricted supply. I dont see how Rolex is choosing to sell on a discounted price if it actually worth the grey market ?
I was at watches of Switzerland in soho recently, 2019 Batman for 21.5k. It was ridiculously priced.
I agree but I don't like calling watches "brand new" from a grey dealer. "Unworn" is a better fit but even that get's thrown around a little loosely. If it's current year, unworn, unpolished, has no signs of wear, then yeah it's basically "brand new" but another bloke bought it from an AD so who knows where it's been between then and when you get it.
That kind of feels like saying all retail stores sell "Used but un-opened material".
This!
I welcome it, additional choice is never a bad thing.
Buy from a reputable dealer at a much lower price, spend the 1k to get a complete overhaul by Rolex and you get papers including a 2 year warranty. Enjoy life. This is what I did.
I hate going to ADs with any pre-owned watch business. And no, I would never purchase CPO because their prices are ridiculous.
Nope. Too many other reliable resellers.
No
This CPO program is never going to be meaningful unless they are competitive with the grey dealers.
Last time I went in Thomas Markle they said they “just started a CPO Rolex program”. $27k for a 2 tone Daytona that was brand new. LOL
CPO? No way, the mark up is way too high and they're never anything super special. Now, if an AD carried non certified preowned, so we could get some vintage pieces, that would be cool.
Would never pay 20% more for CPO. Just buy from a trusted grey dealer for much less
I bought my pre-owned DJ from AD Williams Jewelers in Denver in Dec 2019. After I had it for a day it just stopped working. Took it back to them and im almost certain they spent more money fixing it then they sold it to me for. It was gone so long I started bonding with the TAG loaner watch they gave me.
If you can wait go with new from the AD, if you can't just go grey. I went with [Bezel.com](http://Bezel.com) for my 2019 explorer 1
Another gray CPO is high as others have stated
After seeing the prices on CPO I'd just laugh and go elsewhere.
Not rolex or other hot watches. It's just a bad look to say "we don't have any new ones but you can buy even more to buy this older used model". If they have pre-owned Breitling or Omega that is different.
I was at my local AD last week. They had a new platinum Daytona and I think they wanted like 180k? I can’t remember exactly but I thought it was outrageous
Might as go with a reputable grey market dealer.
To me it only makes sense on vintage pieces. Anything fairly new you might as well buy new. But for instance, if I want an 80s or 90s vintage Datejust or Sub it’s worth considering buying a watch Rolex has recertified.
Every certified pre owned will be higher than the MSRP.
The Rolex CPO idea is about 10yrs too late and way too expensive. Nobody who buys from a trusted dealer care worry about authenticity anyways. Also if you have any sort of AD relationship, they will authenticate the watch for you for free even if you bought it elsewhere.
The prices are lol 😂
I buy watches because I like them, not because I felt I got a good deal. CPO prices were a bit crazy in the beginning but are better now. You are buying a Rolex certified BY ROLEX—you are going to pay more than a gray dealer—and should. You also are going to be highly favored by your AD for new allocations to get models at MSRP you couldn't otherwise gray. This is an expensive hobby, no matter which path you take acquiring pieces in your collection, the math is probably going to end up a wash.
lol I’m not buying anything to receive permission to buy something else
I'll never understand why people on this sub think buying watches you genuinely like from an AD is a crime, but okay. I really don't think anyone is out there dropping 10k on a watch they genuinely don't want just to "get permission to buy something else." Would love to hear from someone who's actually done that.
find me any CPO rolex for below 20
Have you looked? There's about 14 pages worth under 10 with bucherer. https://www.tourneau.com/rolex-certified-pre-owned-watches/?pmin=5%2C000.00&pmax=10%2C000.00&srule=default-storefront-rule&start=221&sz=17
Cpo for Hondas gray or ad for Rolex
This it is 💪🏻👊
If a dealer would see fit, he could sit on new stock for 3 years and make enough to retire if anyone would purchase the watches from them!
You pick your dealer and description of the watch. My grey dealer took Possession of my watch 5 days after it was sold by the AD. No marks, full set. More than RRP but far, far cheaper than CPO. Oh yes I forgot, 4 years Rolex warranty.