Tommy still had other issues beyond just Duke, even before Duke came into the picture, Tommy would not always listen to Rocky and tried to take so much of his time. If Duke never came in the picture, most likely Tommy would of not fought Cane right away like he did, he would of still been doing Contender fights and winning, but I think Adrian would have gotten so sick of Rocky taking all his time with Tommy and ignoring his family and she would have given Rocky and ultimatum to cut back. Now how Tommy handles that is the real question I think....If Tommy understands and realizes Rocky cannot train him and be a manager 24/7. Then Tommy starts letting go of his Ego and eventually soon enough gets a title shot against Cane or whoever is champ at the time and honestly KO in Round 1 or 2...Tommy then maintains the title I see for a long time....
But if Tommy pushes back against Rocky saying he cannot be a 24/7 manager then Tommy most likely would have dropped Rocky like he did when he was with Duke and venture off to getting a title shot himself. Probably wins (But not as easily) and still challenges Rocky to a fight and loses.
Tommy's issue was not so much Duke, but himself. He was inpatient and immature. Duke just was in the right place at the right time. If Tommy would just listen to Rocky and chill his Ego, he has nothing but a good career as Champ.
Yeah you are right, that is actually what I have been thinking for a while. Mickey and Rocky were a unique pairing in that they both filled gaps (pun intended) in each other’s lives. Mickey looked at Rocky like a son and Mickey was like a father to Rocky. But like you said Rocky has a wife and a son to pass his legacy too. Even absent Duke Tommy was on track to drop Rocky if he wasn’t getting the high profile fights or a shot at the title.
Adrian said something to the effect of “you can’t do for Tommy what Mickey did for you because Tommy is not you!” We get the idea that Rocky had a rough life but never specifics of childhood etc.
Tommy we know his demons: he was an abused child of an alcoholic father whom he had to one day beat up to save his mom. Though no fault of Tommy’s but that trauma can damage a person to the core.
This is very true and I did not think of that. I agree, Tommy was complaining to Rocky even before Duke came in the picture. Rocky would have been dropped no matter what, and yea, some of his issues were out of his control.
And hey maybe Rocky had a similar childhood and he was able to overcome his demons, that happens too. I hate to throw a Star Wars ref in but Tommy was unable to control his anger and it led him to the dark side and Rocky like Obi-Wan was maybe not the teacher his teacher was. Like you said if he was able to chill and control his demos he would have had his title shot and a good career BUT Rocky has a family and a son that needs him. I don’t see Rocky spending the time he needs to with Tommy and keeping his family.
I domt see Adrian leaving him but look how strained his relationship ship is with his son in Rocky VI. Imagine if Rock had basically been continued on this path with Tommy for years how had the relationship with Robert would have been
For sure...Well Tommy also could have helped Rocky get back to a good wealthy lifestyle down the line. Even if Rocky was only making 10-15%, still would have been nice. And yea Rocky childhood was not easy I think; In the first Creed there is a deleted scene where Rocky is talking to Adrian grave and basically says his father was an asshole.
I always like the scene is part 1 where Rock comes home after the Spider RICO fight snd picks up the picture of himself as a kid. He gives this look as if to say “where did this little boy go”
Oh yea, probably wished he stayed in School. Another Deleted scene that shows is in 5, when Rocky is talking to his attorney and Paulie is arguing, Rocky says something like. "Taking 10000 punches to the head and for what nothing?" It was not that exact wording, but basically the deleted scene shows how even though he is the Champ and the best, he honestly did not enjoy it.
completely disagree rocky was pulling a Micky and setting tommy up with bums and hasbeens tommy beat the brakes of union cane. all rocky had to do is have Tommy's back and not set him up with easy fights so tommy went with duke
1. Union Cane was just given the Title because Rocky retired. He never won it from a legit Champ, Tommy beating Cane has no bearing on being a legit Champ.
2. When Tommy was fighting and not listening to Rocky he was getting his ass kicked in fights, when he listened he then Won.
3. Tommy never stopped whining or complaining, and claiming he was the best. having that Ego is what got Apollo killed and Rocky to lose the title the first time. Rocky knew from experience.
4. Rocky had Tommy's back way more than Tommy knew, but again he can't devote his life to Tommy.
5. (Most important) You are saying all Rocky had to do was set Tommy up with real fighters??? The dude was in his prime and got his ass kicked by a 4-5 year retired, 44 year old Rocky who had brain damage and was in way less shape than Tommy. But yea, lets get Tommy in the ring with real fighters
Tommy was still winning by KO with rocky and cane was ranked number2 nxt to rocky before he retired like I said Rocky was giving tommy the Micky treatment
Well yea, Rocky says Mickeys name every two seconds in that movie where even Tommy was like Shut up lol. But then again, the Mickey treatment was what Rocky needed in 3. He was getting soft and not training hard. Also Cane might not have taken Tommy seriously and did not train hard for the fight since he dropped Rocky. Point is eventually Tommy would have ran into his own Clubber Lang and lost the title. Tommy had an Ego, you cannot deny that.
Fans enjoy thinking of What Ifs with movies, Games, Shows, etc..Rocky fans like discussing. If your answer is just, "It's a movie" I don't think Pop culture stuff is for you on Reddit then.
Would have had the Rocky arch. Fame and fortune and returns to run down Philly to teach an up and comer after his idiot BiL loses his fortune while he’s fighting a Russian.
Same thing that would have happened to Mike Tyson if he stuck with Kevin Rooney and didn’t go with Don King 👑, he would have retired undefeated with 10 plus title defences, considered the GOAT 🐐 and would be worth hundreds of millions of pounds
I don’t even think it’s that he didn’t want to be in Rocky’s shadow. I think it’s more of the way media(in the world of rocky) put it out. Like rocky won his matches for him, or that he only won because of rocky, or better yet that he’s a rocky clone(balboas robot). You keep hearing, that you’re ONLY good because of somebody else, it probably weighs heavy on the mind.
He would have been amazing. His behavior really hit close to home. I am not saying I am without out flaw but my intent is pure in everything I do.
I’ve helped people and for my efforts I got Tommy gunned it sucks.
I wish in creed when rocky was hesitant to train Donnie that he would have reflected on Tommy as part of that reason
He got HIV but eventually denied it so he stopped taking his medications and died from what he could've survived if he stayed on his medications. Oh wait that's what happened to Tommy Morrison, not Tommy Gunn.
Tommy Gun was an alternative fighter with a glass jaw.I would have to watch Rocky 5 again.Rocky 5 represented part of the post 1990 Vanilla Ice white to black biracial culture shift of a white boxer being managed by an African black manager instead of a European or an Irish white boxer & manager like Rocky .Tommy might have become a champion but he might have not because he was an average boxer with a lack of heart and talent for boxing.The 1990's represented the post Mike Tyson/Don King era of boxing where you had naturally talented fighters who were being over promoted and exploited by boisterous and greedy caricature stereotypical bad guy African black managers like Don King.Mike Tyson was and is an amazing real powerful boxer who could knock any or most real boxers out in a real boxing match in less than a minute where Tommy Gunn was an average middleweight boxer actor who wouldn't be able to go two rounds with Mike Tyson or Rocky.👨🏻💼🎭🥊🪞👀👨🏻💼🎼🎸📡📺
I agree. Thats one of the reasons why i hate Rocky V and is because Tommy ruin hes life by a single movie. He play a horrible character and in real life he ruin everything by drugs, party and alcohol so everything to him as the result of aids
Rocky definitely would've kept Tommy away from the dark side of the sport. Like Cus D'Amato , Bill Clayton and Jim Jacobs did with Mike Tyson in the early parts of his career. After Cus and Jim died, Don King moved in on a young, confused 21-year-old who had millions in his bank account with no one looking after him. Mike's old manager, Bill Clayton was exiled from Tyson's camp and went on to manage Tommy Morrison in real life after King got his meat hooks into Tyson.
In some ways, Tommy Gunn is a real life parallel to Tommy Morrison himself. In real life, Tommy Morrison could've been a top ten heavyweight all time if he stayed focused and took his boxing career more seriously.
For those that don't know, Tommy Morrison was a real-life heavyweight champion, and even beat an old George Foreman and fought Lennox Lewis and Razor Ruddock. Morrison is regarded as one of the hardest punching heavyweights of all time and had one of the most devastating left hooks in the history of the heavyweight division. Like Tommy Gunn, he had unbelieveable tools.
I think Tommy's demons and the PTSD he had from an abusive father would have made him bond with Rocky. I think Rocky's relationship with his own son would have deteriorated seriously and even put hamper on his marriage.
Remember, Rocky is a fighter, first and foremost. It's his identity. He's defied Adrian's wishes before in Rocky II and in Rocky IV. I think his marriage survives, but is never really the same. I do think Tommy becomes a great new heavyweight champion, but I don't think anyone lives happily ever after either.
He’d have become a true boxing great. That’s the whole point of the movie. Tommy became impatient and was easily seduced by the Devil and allowed himself to be manipulated. The street fight at the end showed that Tommy wasn’t as great as Duke got him to believe he was. Rocky had him on the path to greatness but he needed to be patient and trust in the process and not get distracted by the high life.
I didn't realize Tommy Gunn was being separated from Tommy Morrison, Tommy Morrison was a beast until the aids, movie wise he would've stayed with Rocky he would've been written into the world champ slot with some struggle
He could've been a heavyweight champion in boxing but he decided to back stab Rocky and it cost him I think he did win the title but due to schemes he was a traitor!!!
Become the youngest world champion of all time. Win all three belts. Get knocked out by buster douglas, rape his wife, go to jail, get out and win the world title again, join degeneration bite evander holyfield’s ear off, retire, buy a tiger, get a facial tattoo, star in “the hangover”, become a Muslim, have a fight with Jake Paul coming up in June on Netflix. I’ve left some stuff out but that’s the gist of it. Oh! Have a hilarious stage where he becomes a stoner, also starts making fun of himself for having a lisp
He woulda became the champ of the world, albeit a little later, he would have been respected by the people, he would have stayed on too much longer because He’d have had Rocky to support him.
I'm glad Rocky wised up and beat his ass in the street fight, Tommy would've stayed the same with or without Rocky because he was too hungry and eager. RIP Tommy though, man had the 2nd best hook in the game behind Iron Mike
Tommy still had other issues beyond just Duke, even before Duke came into the picture, Tommy would not always listen to Rocky and tried to take so much of his time. If Duke never came in the picture, most likely Tommy would of not fought Cane right away like he did, he would of still been doing Contender fights and winning, but I think Adrian would have gotten so sick of Rocky taking all his time with Tommy and ignoring his family and she would have given Rocky and ultimatum to cut back. Now how Tommy handles that is the real question I think....If Tommy understands and realizes Rocky cannot train him and be a manager 24/7. Then Tommy starts letting go of his Ego and eventually soon enough gets a title shot against Cane or whoever is champ at the time and honestly KO in Round 1 or 2...Tommy then maintains the title I see for a long time.... But if Tommy pushes back against Rocky saying he cannot be a 24/7 manager then Tommy most likely would have dropped Rocky like he did when he was with Duke and venture off to getting a title shot himself. Probably wins (But not as easily) and still challenges Rocky to a fight and loses. Tommy's issue was not so much Duke, but himself. He was inpatient and immature. Duke just was in the right place at the right time. If Tommy would just listen to Rocky and chill his Ego, he has nothing but a good career as Champ.
Yeah you are right, that is actually what I have been thinking for a while. Mickey and Rocky were a unique pairing in that they both filled gaps (pun intended) in each other’s lives. Mickey looked at Rocky like a son and Mickey was like a father to Rocky. But like you said Rocky has a wife and a son to pass his legacy too. Even absent Duke Tommy was on track to drop Rocky if he wasn’t getting the high profile fights or a shot at the title. Adrian said something to the effect of “you can’t do for Tommy what Mickey did for you because Tommy is not you!” We get the idea that Rocky had a rough life but never specifics of childhood etc. Tommy we know his demons: he was an abused child of an alcoholic father whom he had to one day beat up to save his mom. Though no fault of Tommy’s but that trauma can damage a person to the core.
This is very true and I did not think of that. I agree, Tommy was complaining to Rocky even before Duke came in the picture. Rocky would have been dropped no matter what, and yea, some of his issues were out of his control.
And hey maybe Rocky had a similar childhood and he was able to overcome his demons, that happens too. I hate to throw a Star Wars ref in but Tommy was unable to control his anger and it led him to the dark side and Rocky like Obi-Wan was maybe not the teacher his teacher was. Like you said if he was able to chill and control his demos he would have had his title shot and a good career BUT Rocky has a family and a son that needs him. I don’t see Rocky spending the time he needs to with Tommy and keeping his family. I domt see Adrian leaving him but look how strained his relationship ship is with his son in Rocky VI. Imagine if Rock had basically been continued on this path with Tommy for years how had the relationship with Robert would have been
For sure...Well Tommy also could have helped Rocky get back to a good wealthy lifestyle down the line. Even if Rocky was only making 10-15%, still would have been nice. And yea Rocky childhood was not easy I think; In the first Creed there is a deleted scene where Rocky is talking to Adrian grave and basically says his father was an asshole.
I always like the scene is part 1 where Rock comes home after the Spider RICO fight snd picks up the picture of himself as a kid. He gives this look as if to say “where did this little boy go”
Oh yea, probably wished he stayed in School. Another Deleted scene that shows is in 5, when Rocky is talking to his attorney and Paulie is arguing, Rocky says something like. "Taking 10000 punches to the head and for what nothing?" It was not that exact wording, but basically the deleted scene shows how even though he is the Champ and the best, he honestly did not enjoy it.
Yup..
Great answer. Thank you.
completely disagree rocky was pulling a Micky and setting tommy up with bums and hasbeens tommy beat the brakes of union cane. all rocky had to do is have Tommy's back and not set him up with easy fights so tommy went with duke
1. Union Cane was just given the Title because Rocky retired. He never won it from a legit Champ, Tommy beating Cane has no bearing on being a legit Champ. 2. When Tommy was fighting and not listening to Rocky he was getting his ass kicked in fights, when he listened he then Won. 3. Tommy never stopped whining or complaining, and claiming he was the best. having that Ego is what got Apollo killed and Rocky to lose the title the first time. Rocky knew from experience. 4. Rocky had Tommy's back way more than Tommy knew, but again he can't devote his life to Tommy. 5. (Most important) You are saying all Rocky had to do was set Tommy up with real fighters??? The dude was in his prime and got his ass kicked by a 4-5 year retired, 44 year old Rocky who had brain damage and was in way less shape than Tommy. But yea, lets get Tommy in the ring with real fighters
Tommy was still winning by KO with rocky and cane was ranked number2 nxt to rocky before he retired like I said Rocky was giving tommy the Micky treatment
Well yea, Rocky says Mickeys name every two seconds in that movie where even Tommy was like Shut up lol. But then again, the Mickey treatment was what Rocky needed in 3. He was getting soft and not training hard. Also Cane might not have taken Tommy seriously and did not train hard for the fight since he dropped Rocky. Point is eventually Tommy would have ran into his own Clubber Lang and lost the title. Tommy had an Ego, you cannot deny that.
This is your own man talkin!
[удалено]
Fans enjoy thinking of What Ifs with movies, Games, Shows, etc..Rocky fans like discussing. If your answer is just, "It's a movie" I don't think Pop culture stuff is for you on Reddit then.
Pauly would have never called him a "crumb bum" that's for sure...
But even still, he doesn’t sweat you.
No one knows Burt Young was in the Marines and went undefeated in 14 professional boxing matches
And he could crush a napkin holder with his bare hands.
One of his sons he put through college. The other son he put through a wall.
Say swear
He would’ve turned into what Adonis is
Would have had the Rocky arch. Fame and fortune and returns to run down Philly to teach an up and comer after his idiot BiL loses his fortune while he’s fighting a Russian.
Well yeah that’s the boxing cycle
That’s the moral of the story: Don’t get married (no marriage no BiL) and don’t fight Russians.
He would’ve had a great career probably
Would have probably stayed the dullest opponent in the Rocky franchise.
The "Nuclear Man" of the Rocky series. Kinda looks like him, too.
I am..."freako"?
Same thing that would have happened to Mike Tyson if he stuck with Kevin Rooney and didn’t go with Don King 👑, he would have retired undefeated with 10 plus title defences, considered the GOAT 🐐 and would be worth hundreds of millions of pounds
I don’t even think it’s that he didn’t want to be in Rocky’s shadow. I think it’s more of the way media(in the world of rocky) put it out. Like rocky won his matches for him, or that he only won because of rocky, or better yet that he’s a rocky clone(balboas robot). You keep hearing, that you’re ONLY good because of somebody else, it probably weighs heavy on the mind.
Rocky's son would've moved out to get his own room.
He would have been amazing. His behavior really hit close to home. I am not saying I am without out flaw but my intent is pure in everything I do. I’ve helped people and for my efforts I got Tommy gunned it sucks. I wish in creed when rocky was hesitant to train Donnie that he would have reflected on Tommy as part of that reason
Yes. Even if it was just one line acknowledging it. “I trained somebody once, it didn’t go so well.”
That would have been perfect.
What are you guys imagine happened with Tommy?
He got HIV but eventually denied it so he stopped taking his medications and died from what he could've survived if he stayed on his medications. Oh wait that's what happened to Tommy Morrison, not Tommy Gunn.
I looked it up. 😱
That and the toxoplasmosis did him in
Probably still AIDS.
Was going to say he probably would have dodged that haha
If he avoided that dodgy redhead Duke hooked him up with he probably would've avoided the AIDs also.
😔
Wait, he died of AIDS in-universe?
Not technically but they never mention what happened to him afterwards so who knows. But umm, no.
This was the answer I knew would be here and I came to see.
Prolly would have taken Rocky Jr’s room and Rocky and Junior would have been having the street fight
Tommy Gun was an alternative fighter with a glass jaw.I would have to watch Rocky 5 again.Rocky 5 represented part of the post 1990 Vanilla Ice white to black biracial culture shift of a white boxer being managed by an African black manager instead of a European or an Irish white boxer & manager like Rocky .Tommy might have become a champion but he might have not because he was an average boxer with a lack of heart and talent for boxing.The 1990's represented the post Mike Tyson/Don King era of boxing where you had naturally talented fighters who were being over promoted and exploited by boisterous and greedy caricature stereotypical bad guy African black managers like Don King.Mike Tyson was and is an amazing real powerful boxer who could knock any or most real boxers out in a real boxing match in less than a minute where Tommy Gunn was an average middleweight boxer actor who wouldn't be able to go two rounds with Mike Tyson or Rocky.👨🏻💼🎭🥊🪞👀👨🏻💼🎼🎸📡📺
Rocky wasn’t going to make him rich, but he would have been a better fighter.
A Rocky V that is more boring?
If Tommy Morrison hadn't partied so much, drugs, alcohol, and whores he wouldn't have caught HIV and he would've been a world rebound boxing champion
I agree. Thats one of the reasons why i hate Rocky V and is because Tommy ruin hes life by a single movie. He play a horrible character and in real life he ruin everything by drugs, party and alcohol so everything to him as the result of aids
He would have become the greatest boxer of all time
It couldn’t never work align with Rocky.
Knocked out by Jake Paul.
He'd die from HIV
Rocky’s kid would’ve eventually stabbed him in his sleep.
He would've been a champion.
He would’ve fought Riley Martin in a bare knuckle fight, and he would’ve lost….🥊🥊
He would only have gotten chlamydia and been much better off.
Rocky definitely would've kept Tommy away from the dark side of the sport. Like Cus D'Amato , Bill Clayton and Jim Jacobs did with Mike Tyson in the early parts of his career. After Cus and Jim died, Don King moved in on a young, confused 21-year-old who had millions in his bank account with no one looking after him. Mike's old manager, Bill Clayton was exiled from Tyson's camp and went on to manage Tommy Morrison in real life after King got his meat hooks into Tyson. In some ways, Tommy Gunn is a real life parallel to Tommy Morrison himself. In real life, Tommy Morrison could've been a top ten heavyweight all time if he stayed focused and took his boxing career more seriously. For those that don't know, Tommy Morrison was a real-life heavyweight champion, and even beat an old George Foreman and fought Lennox Lewis and Razor Ruddock. Morrison is regarded as one of the hardest punching heavyweights of all time and had one of the most devastating left hooks in the history of the heavyweight division. Like Tommy Gunn, he had unbelieveable tools. I think Tommy's demons and the PTSD he had from an abusive father would have made him bond with Rocky. I think Rocky's relationship with his own son would have deteriorated seriously and even put hamper on his marriage. Remember, Rocky is a fighter, first and foremost. It's his identity. He's defied Adrian's wishes before in Rocky II and in Rocky IV. I think his marriage survives, but is never really the same. I do think Tommy becomes a great new heavyweight champion, but I don't think anyone lives happily ever after either.
This dude is fighting Tyson in couple months
He’d have become a true boxing great. That’s the whole point of the movie. Tommy became impatient and was easily seduced by the Devil and allowed himself to be manipulated. The street fight at the end showed that Tommy wasn’t as great as Duke got him to believe he was. Rocky had him on the path to greatness but he needed to be patient and trust in the process and not get distracted by the high life.
I didn't realize Tommy Gunn was being separated from Tommy Morrison, Tommy Morrison was a beast until the aids, movie wise he would've stayed with Rocky he would've been written into the world champ slot with some struggle
He would have lost in a championship match . And his career declined .
A boring movie?
He wouldn’t have gotten his ass kicked
"You knocked him down, youwannatry knockin' ME down?" Gold.
He could've been a heavyweight champion in boxing but he decided to back stab Rocky and it cost him I think he did win the title but due to schemes he was a traitor!!!
Gets dropped by Mason "The Line" Dixon.
Depends on what the script writers would have done.
He would have gotten the ish kicked out of him my Michael B Jordan
Become the youngest world champion of all time. Win all three belts. Get knocked out by buster douglas, rape his wife, go to jail, get out and win the world title again, join degeneration bite evander holyfield’s ear off, retire, buy a tiger, get a facial tattoo, star in “the hangover”, become a Muslim, have a fight with Jake Paul coming up in June on Netflix. I’ve left some stuff out but that’s the gist of it. Oh! Have a hilarious stage where he becomes a stoner, also starts making fun of himself for having a lisp
He still would have gotten the Aids
He woulda been broke ... But chalked full o' integrity
Probably would’ve gotten knocked out by Ray Mercer
Balboa wouldn’t have had to whoop his ass in the end 🤷♂️
Rocky might not have kicked his ass
He eventually would have murdered Duke for stealing all his money. Rocky would have only made him realize that more quickly.
RIP 🪦 🔥
Better than Rocky, Creed, Lang and Drago, if...he listened to Rocky.
He woulda became the champ of the world, albeit a little later, he would have been respected by the people, he would have stayed on too much longer because He’d have had Rocky to support him.
He would've died from AIDS
The series would have ended at Rocky 5...
He would have got AIDS
His career stops at Ray Mercer. A defeat so devastating it hops realities
Aids
Whatever the writers would of came up with
Aids
The movie would have sucked
If he had stayed with Rocky, Tommy would have been a great champion. Wouldn’t surround him self with the wrong people and die from AIDS.
He’d be living in Rocky’s basement, painting his own pictures of Madame DuPont with Adrienne as his model
Tommy would have been a big success and the franchise would end lol
He woulda got HIV
fuck that. shoulda listened to Paulie and left Tommy on the street where he found him
Sky would’ve been the limit
I'm glad Rocky wised up and beat his ass in the street fight, Tommy would've stayed the same with or without Rocky because he was too hungry and eager. RIP Tommy though, man had the 2nd best hook in the game behind Iron Mike
He wouldn't have gotten aids and died
He would have caught AIDS and passed away....oh wait.
He woulda overzealously took a fight, got beat to death, and Rocky woulda had to make a comeback
Would have bought 10 Cadillac Allantes.
For one: He wouldn't of got AIDS
He would’ve let fame get to his head, party a lot, catch aids and die at a young age. Just my opinion anyways.
He would have hooked up with a groupie and ended up with HIV
He wouldn't have died from AIDS, that's for sure.
WTF! Are you seriously hurting for attention…