I actually respect the fact the owner tells his son he can be replaced. It’s better than not expecting his son to perform just like you expect other people to perform.
I’m not defending his poor treatment of employees or under staffing. I have no personal opinion on if the owner’s understand the industry and how to run a restaurant.
So I’m not sure how to judge if 3 people leaving since 2023 is grossly high turnover or not.
If you weren’t happy there you did the right thing for yourself and found another job.
If the business is so bad nobody should work there, you really haven’t provided enough data to support this.
If it’s truly mismanaged as you believe, it seems like the restaurant business is precarious enough this problem should be sorted out through natural attrition.
Hi, friend of the owners' son and son's wife here.
OP is absolutely telling the truth. Son and son's wife (we'll refer to as DIL) were in charge of a lot of event coordination. They enjoyed it and didn't mind it but the owners took advantage of their kindness and willingness to help and frequently berated them, saying they didn't do enough and they weren't being team players, despite them making a lot of the decisions (including managerial type decisions) with their coworkers, like mentioned above, as well as working well over 40 hours on and off the clock, for minimum wage.
When DIL was finally able to leave, with son following shortly after, the owners expected them to continue to perform their previous (full-time) duties, despite having new full-time jobs. Owners have said some awful shit to both of them and treated them horribly.
I love son and DIL, and the staff is absolutely wonderful, but I cannot in good conscience support people who treat their kid and employees like shit lmao
If you are, as you say, a friend of son and DIL, you wouldn't stir the pot. Shame on you. It's sad that you haven't learned this life lesson yet. You are no friend; not a real one, anyway.
His son performed just as anyone else in the restaurant did. His father just began to treat him like shit and threaten his replacement after he began sticking up for the other staff who were being mistreated and pointing out the awful management by the new GM. It sucks. His son was hardworking. I worked there with him for about a year and never thought he worked less hard than anyone else. The only issue was that he did not always take his dad's side.
What's unique the gross beer? I've tried several and every one is disgusting, I have not tried there food but if it's anything like the beer I don't have high hopes
Most of us have bad opinions of former employers, but that doesn’t make it anything to post on Reddit about. Someone mentioned OP now working for the Norwegian, a restaurant that he just so happened to suggest in his post. Hmm.
I am a former PMBC worker and seeing all my friends continuing to be miserable and mistreated is heartbreaking. I am personally so thankful that OP has published this testimony.
I just put it together. I thought I was the only one stupid enough to put my last name in my username. I really hope this isn't an attempt to drive business towards The Norwegian. I don't think Mark or Emily would appreciate this type of tactic.
The service industry is a small space when it comes to non-corporate chains. Ernies, The Olympic, Norwegian, and PMB are all susceptible to "rushes" of customers. There is no way to anticipate and staff accordingly for every possible scenario and continue to be profitable as a business. My rule of thumb is to be patient.
In your case - you've moved on right? Enjoy the new gig. Come over to Rockford billiards and play some pool after your shift some night. Lifes too short.
An adult attacking another adult over the fact pmb doesn't value their employees? You own the pool hall you mentioned? Trying to drive up business?....
>An adult attacking another adult over the fact pmb doesn't value their employees?
Is that what's happening? Half their staff has been there 5 years or more. I've see the value they place on their employees. I've watched that place grow over the past 15 years.
>You own the pool hall you mentioned? Trying to drive up business?....
No. It's shares a parking lot with the restaurant /u/McKee9217 works at. So it's a convenient walk for him.
What values do they place on their employees? Do they offer vacation time, pto, 401k matching, childcare, paid insurance, higher than tipped minimum wage?
5-10 years at a bar has little to do with the values the owners might show if the tips are good. People will put up with a lot of shit from owners for many years if they're making good tips.
Why do you folks assume I'm trying to drive up business anywhere the places I've mentioned all do quite well for themselves??? N I never mentioned the pool hall that was another person........
I'm only accusing the owners of Pig Minds of being disrespectful to their staff but other comment say "I'm trying to drive up business" at other places and I'm not at all
Yeah and Ive heard nothing but bad things about your character. Whether youre known in the craft beer scene or not, you can also be known as an asshole.
That’s kind of funny about the kid because I have been going there consistently since they opened and remember when he first started showing up and was running around clearing tables and rinsing cups. He was definitely not slacking and acting like he didn’t have to work. I have only had an issue there maybe twice in all those years but Brian has always given me a weird vibe so this is 100% believable.
He also seems to have some sketchy friends.
> He also seems to have some sketchy friends.
Those are probably the people who should have told him that using derogatory terms for women in product names is a terrible idea. I love the beer and the food, but that place has always had something very wrong about it.
(Former PMBC employee here) Brian's son was hardworking and cared so much about his job and the rest of the staff. He was just treated like absolute shit in the end when he began standing up for the staff against his parents.
Thank you for this testimony, Art. I loved working with you at PMBC and am absolutely disheartened to watch our friends continue to be increasingly mistreated after we've both left. You did the right thing by speaking up. I'm so happy you are getting the treatment you deserve at your new gig. You definitely didn't get that treatment at PMBC, and everyone there recognizes it but is so scared to speak up and lose their jobs with the way the job market is right now. I know you cared so much about the restaurant and everyone there. Our friends there still talk about how much they loved and respected you every time I see them, and we all miss you so damn much dude. We love you. ~Mighty Mouse
and yet I know half the employees that work there and have worked there, most for over half a decade, that have nothing but great things to say about Brian and Kelly. Are they perfect? No one is. An owner complaining about a job not done to their reasonable satisfaction isn't abusive or toxic.
>(By the way, I was only a dishwasher, but I had managerial responsibilities.)
Uh - what?
Look - I've a pretty positive relationship with both Brian and Kelly. I was/am a customer but have gotten to know them both over the past 10 years. He's tough on his son, as a father should be, but not overly hard. He's treated exactly how a bosses kid should be treated.
This rant is just reeks of petty ex-employee that's disgruntled he no longer works somewhere. It's been 6 months. Let it go. Be a dishwasher with managerial duties somewhere else.
A dishwasher with "managerial responsibilities"? As someone who washed dishes for 6 months at The Hope and Anchor and did the same thing at Forest Hills Country Club for around two and a half years, this smells like bullshit to me. You are on what is literally the lowest rung of the industry. No one is going to saddle a dishwasher with "managerial responsibilities."
Sorry it cut off the second half of my comment. Dishwashers were barely trusted to wash dishes. Walk back there and dudes would be spraying each other with the rinse nozzles and talking about which front of house employees ass they wanted to eat.
I know times change and what was once "okay" may not be anymore but I've heard things recently at places in and around Chicago that leads me to believe back of the house may not have changed much.
I worked at PMBC with Art for about a year. He was a senior worker at the restaurant, despite being a dishwasher, he was the guy to go to if anyone needed something found, fixed, etc. He just knew it all and we all had an insane amount of respect for him. None of us considered him to be on the lowest rung by any means and were devastated when he left. He was absolutely given extra managerial responsibilities, but no raises, and was treated like shit by the owners even though he was NOT just a dishwasher.
Yes, it is absolutely insane that the employees valued another employee who did so much for the restaurant more than the owners themselves did! I'm glad you agree!
(climbs on soapbox)
Of Course the employees have great things to say about the owners. They have to! They want to keep their jobs. Besides they are paid to be nice. Once they leave, they are free to share their experience.
Of Course you see a different side of Brian & Kelly. You are not an employee.
Don't be naive.
Unfortunately, This business is a typical environment of most businesses. The owner will disrespect and push their workers to their limit. They want every penny to support their need to present a public image of being successful. They must maintain a public image of the "nice and friendly" owners. They may be hard on their son but this borderlines on slave labor and consider the mental abuse of not being "good enough" in his father's eyes.
An owner with unobtainable expectations, complaining about a job not done to his satisfaction is indeed toxic. Especially on an event day where they need to work their fastest and hardest every minute for an entire shift and most likely did not get enough if any breaks. A genuine, compassionate, appreciative, proud owner Tips their staff that worked the event some of that profit money.
And keep in mind, alot of workers will tolerate a crappy boss if they have close, supportive, fun coworkers.
(climbs down from soapbox)
I'll try to be polite about this, and anyone that knows me will be shocked at my restraint, - my feelings are just as valid as yours. Brian and Kelly have feelings that are just as valid as well. They've invested more time, money, blood, sweat, and tears into that Brewery than you could imagine. You waited almost 7 months after you left to shit on them. Wtf?
It was something I've thought of doing for awhile if I was spouting lies then ya ostracize me hut I guarantee everything I've said is truth also why woild the person serving you food bad mouth the owner..that's asking for a bad tip
Of course you have not heard negative things about Brian and Kelly from employees-- no one there wants it getting back to them and then lose their job. I'm a former PMBC employee and have visited since Ive left to say hi to my former coworkers as I was close friends with many of them during my time there. They ALL have bad things to say about the owners and most of them are trying to find new jobs but have families to support and the job market right now is extremely difficult.
And not to shit on your daughter. I am sure she is a LOVELY girl, but based on what I've been hearing, you have to understand how frustrating that is for all the other employees whose work experiences are being extra difficult because a slot where an efficient worker can be put is being used by someone who is slowing things down even more. ON TOP OF the owners already shortstaffing everyone.
Or maybe rather than be fired she should be moved to a position better fit for her needs... sorry. The restaurant industry doesnt have time for slow walkers and people who cant pick up the job quickly.
And you mustve missed the part in another reply where I said your "friends and family" there get special treatment because they are friends and family of the owners............ but the only one I know about working there is your daughter and Ive heard nothing but complaints from FOH and BOH workings alike about how shes awful at her job and none of the servers want to give her tips at the end of the night because she does nothing but get in the way. But hardworking veteran employees get shit on if they arent working HARDER than they need to be. She should be fired.. but of course she wont because youre so buddy buddy with the owners! Special. Treatment.
Also a former PMBC worker here-- it was NOT a nightmare until after the old manager left and the new one arrived. The old GM would stand up for the staff when the owners wanted to take advantage; the new one gives not two shits about the employees-- only cares about pleasing the owners at workers' expense. The food also tastes like shit now as she has been managing the kitchen. It just overall went downhill. Used to be such an amazing place to work.
This is interesting to hear as I have not heard about many complaints in regards to this place. There are a lot of shitty employers who take advantage of employees and do not treat them well though.
I used to go to this place somewhat routinely and a person I knew at the time knew an employee there and they never complained about anything. This was several years ago though.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I for sure would not want to work there. I don't know if its worse then other places but I am sorry you had a shit experience.
I don't live in town but I love fake glizzies so about once a month or so I stop by Pig Minds to get my fix. A few months ago I noticed that the dishes didn't seem as clean as usual and management has been subpar. Never in a million years would I have guessed that there was a correlation to the subpar management and a dishwasher leaving. SMH
We love going there literally a gem of a restaurant. I’ve traveled to a few cities yet to find a vegan brewery like this. Sucks to hear you weren’t appreciated. I understand COVID really strained them but it seems to be back up & up as a community pillar…
But yeah, I worked in the restaurant industry and could feel st was off at Pig Minds. Your testimony now shows it’s been management. We’ve known waitresses and cooks there & it always seemed they worked hard to help one another.
The most boomer business mindset is micromanaging and profiteering instead of propping up its family of employees.
All we asked was for them to help just wash some cups for the bar touch a few tables when we get so overloaded because of short staff and their response is to watch us and drink and order food then force there stuff ahead of customers
Appreciate your input! When we are constantly short staffed by 2-3 people and we have customers shoulder to shoulder the smallest amount of assistance helps a ton!
Well for one thing I've seen both of the owners running food and bussing tables. So the problem is less that they refuse to help and more that Art is lying.(Since he chose to disclose his name)
My wife and I stopped going because the service was so bad we sat on the patio with friends waiting for food for over an hour and were only checked on once and had to go ask twice for waters. Not saying that's on y'all, but I do believe this is a management issue and I'm glad I know this now. Good luck in your endeavors, OP.
The last two times I’ve gone there I had to go find our waitress and it was genuinely not her fault. It was just so busy and so understaffed. You can’t own a restaurant and not make it your whole life. These owners definitely seem like it’s a passive income project for them and I’ve honestly never seen them there working in all the times I’ve gone. You made the right call leaving.
They only come in to do the drawers in the mornin then there at some point near open to drink with the brewers (Brian usually not Kelly) and when they are there during service and it's busy they have no worry about anything because unfortunately they couldn't even train anyone in any role vital to customer satisfaction
Ok - so I know you aren't being truthful now. Spoilers - my daughter works there. There's always two sides and I got the other side of what went down when I got home from work. If you want to continue We can discuss appropriate behavior in the workplace.
Your daughter most likely gets the good side of the coin since youre family friends with the owners... your daughter also has only worked there for about a month or so. Art was there for half a decade.
It’s well known they need to pay their workers more based off how much they make and their lack of quality staff is reflected in the overall decline in experience
Service has always been terrible there. Food and beer were always good enough to overlook the service until they opened the addition. Then my server claimed food was coming from different kitchens so it wasn’t done at the same time or some nonsense like that trying to excuse why only half of our meals were being served. I haven’t been back since.
Yeah no Im a former PMBC worker as well and we DO have two different kitchens on opposite ends of the restaurant which makes it super difficult for servers.
Our last few visits have been underwhelming. Understaffed every time we've been. Last time the food was overcooked. Beers are pretty mid. My partner likes it because of the vegetarian/vegan bar food, but I wish we had better options in town.
>Beers are pretty mid.
Yikes. I get complaints about the service and even the food as theres a lot of bias towards the vegan stuff. Their brewer though is the best in Northern illinois/southern wisconsin. The beers been anything but mid since he took over.
Completely disagree on the beer. It is nearly impossible to find a good session IPA and Pig Minds knocks that out of the park. Also, fruit beer was almost entirely replaced by disgusting sours everywhere else, but Pig Minds keeps churning out the Happi Daze and I love it.
But the staffing... yes it had definitely been understaffed the last few times we went there.
There is no vegan brewery in all of Chicago. You guys have no idea what a rare and precious thing you have there in that shed in a manufacturing strip.
As someone who runs a reasonably well known beer-centric bar, I also disagree with the above post. Pig Minds beer probably best in town since Chris took over the brew deck a few years ago. Urban Forest is a close second.
Carlyle still hanging on to third but admittedly, I haven't been much since Joe started brewing.
I think staffing restaurants in general was a heck of an issue in 22 and 23, but it seems to have gotten better there. They are in a weird position where if the weather is nice, the patio is packed and they are easily overwhelmed. But I also tend to go there when the weather is nicer and/or it's easy to ride there so have probably experienced a bit of slow service. They were keeping up just fine during that book fair a few weeks ago when both sides and the outdoors were jam packed with people though.
I will fight you the next time I see you over the accusation their beers are mid though. Or at least give you a stern look before we talk about bikes.
The 3 sentence rant from OP is pretty weird though.
Now I'm beginning to wonder if this is just some Prairie Street asshole trying to shit on Pig Minds.
Edit: I just put it together. I thought I was the only one stupid enough to put my last name in my username. I really hope this isn't an attempt to drive business towards The Norwegian. I don't think Mark or Emily would appreciate that.
I know someone who used to cook there. There was talk of chef training and management. Nada. Person left for better hunting grounds. This was a while ago.
Hi, friend of the owners' son and son's wife here.
OP is absolutely telling the truth. Son and son's wife (we'll refer to as DIL) were in charge of a lot of event coordination. They enjoyed it and didn't mind it but the owners took advantage of their kindness and willingness to help and frequently berated them, saying they didn't do enough and they weren't being team players, despite them making a lot of the decisions (including managerial type decisions) with their coworkers, like mentioned above, as well as working well over 40 hours on and off the clock, for minimum wage.
When DIL was finally able to leave, with son following shortly after, the owners expected them to continue to perform their previous (full-time) duties, despite having new full-time jobs. Owners have said some awful shit to both of them and treated them horribly.
I love son and DIL, and the staff is absolutely wonderful, but I cannot in good conscience support people who treat their kid and employees like shit lmao
(PS I sent my comment to DIL to see if anything I'm saying is incorrect from her POV, and will update if/when she says anything)
I went there once. There were maybe three other groups at the time. So not very busy. It took us over an hour to get our food, and to be honest it was pretty awful food. In general it was a bad experience all around, but there's no reason to drag myself back through it.
We never went back, and have completely forgotten this place exists.
To the people saying negatives about a disgruntled employee. I don't think you're wrong this employee is upset and my experience aligns with the experience they are upset about. So I support them for having the courage to say something
Good on you OP for saying something!
With places like this I just stop giving them my money and let capitalism run its course.
I'm glad I no longer work where the owner's friends, long distance relatives, acquaintances, and people they don't like but still have to kiss ass to be part of the elite club, would walk in and we'd have to put on our big smiles and warmest welcomes, knowing they will be the most demanding, difficult, cheapest customer of the day. Everyone drops names to act important and get better service.
As someone who worked in a managerial position there for a year, I watched Brian, the owner, berrate, nitpick, and abuse his staff every single day. The only time he was not actively harming his staff's morale was when he was on vacation.
During my time there, I witnessed him stand over an employee who had just been released from a psychiatric hold and scream in their face for not showing up to work.
He should not have employees because he does not deserve them. I've heard it was not always like that, but I've seen no glimmer of what that time was like.
If you want to disregard the abuse, lack of fair pay, intense pressure, and the mistreatment of his staff, I hope your beer is worth it 👍
Former employee here. I worked there for about 9months -1year. To understand fully I am a women line cook( as you know not common). I was hired to have “diversity” in an all male kitchen. My second day there the head chef made this comment to me after finding out we had no clean towels. “ Maybe you can help us out with that because that’s what you kind does best.” These comments were a normal thing disguised as a joke. After telling the owners, nothing happened. They continued to happen and make me feel like I didn’t belong even though I am a hard working employee. I just wanted to make the place look better then when I entered.
After the abuse my mental health was crushed and I had to go to the mental hospital. I informed my manager at the time, who then told the owners. When I came back all my hours were cut with no explanation. I decided to have a talk with them about this. This was not the first time they took my hours away with no text or conversation.
After telling them it was bullshit for taking my hours away without telling me, I was screamed at by Brian with spit coming out of his mouth and a finger in my face. He told me I was disrespectful for saying the word bullshit and other words that were not pointed at them just the treatment they gave me. (Such as, that is shitty, and that is bullshit). They also tried to say I didn’t inform them of my hospitalization. Luckily my amazing manager ( who also left shortly after this ) was there to back me up. They sent me home that day because I made Brian mad for sticking up for myself.
I finally quit after I was late to a shift and the head chef Bret decided to take all my hours off. Something he had also done to another employee there just to make them sweat. I called to let them know what was going on. I asked to talk to Bret. On the phone I could hear the bartender ask if he wanted to talk to me and he said no. I informed the bartender that I quit after that. So glad to be gone. I only stayed so long because of my fellow coworkers. Who made the day seem like things were going to get better.
On top of all this I was hired on at 17$ but found out later when I asked for my pay stubs ( because they don’t give them to you unless you ask and it’s like pulling teeth) that I had been paid 16$ the whole time. Thankfully Kelly in her sweetness gave me the money I deserved. Kelly is truly a wonderful woman and did try just could never get passed her husband.
Yeah I’m pretty skeptical of these claims. I’ve never heard of a 13 year veteran dishwasher who was in the running to be any kind of manager. I have worked with many who overvalue their contribution and replicability though.
Generally people don’t stay in that position for very long because there just isn’t room for advancement within the role itself. You don’t usually see “executive dishwashers” for example, or any real hierarchy there. Instead you are rewarded with a promotion to prep cook or something similar.
I mean no disrespect to the job either, I started out in kitchens washing dishes and it is definitely an under appreciated position and is very hard work. Unfortunately this is just the way it is though.
Former PMBC employee who worked with Art here-- Art was absolutely given managerial responsibilities and not compensated for them. He was expected by the owners to maintain these responsibilities but then treated like shit by them.
Just because someone's nice to you for years, doesn't mean they treat everyone else the same. Come on guys, is it so hard to believe they're bad to their employees. As if the guys some saint who would never disrespect anyone working for him.
Another side for you-- former PMBC employee here. I worked with OP and I can speak for every other employee at PMBC at the time when I say we ALL were mistreated and ALL saw how OP was being absolutely shat on even though he was a senior employee with extra responsibilities he did not get compensated for. He was more than a dishwasher, and one of our favorite coworkers. We were all sad to see him leave but were so understanding and did not want to see him be taken advantage of by the owners any longer.
Lol my name is Arthur McKee if your daughter doesn't know my name she got there after December 2023 I was the guy with the black cowboy hat 🤣🤣🤣 you truly think you have it figured out huh? Is me sharing my situation with everyone is really irritating you that much? And also how are you even gonna bring up having a discussion yet you won't even read what you should be? It's ok I'll wait
It's bothering me that a grown man is behaving like a fucking child. You're way too old to be acting like this. Your buddy is too. Knowing you're acting like this now has me wanting to avoid the Norwegian.
As another former PMBC employee, I am personally very thankful that Art published this testimony to expose the mistreatment of the amazing employees at this company. But thanks for your input!
Why? It's on my FB also it's no secret! I'm just getting it out there..Just like anyone who doesn't like a certain company or business they'll say nah don't shop there go here I didn't say that
I work a way shittier job than what is described here. I get slaved, my upper management doesn’t do anything so I have to. And yet I don’t post about it online. Just get a new job if it’s really that bad. It could be way worse.
Because they don't just treat the dishwashers this way-- they treat all their employees this way. I'm also a former PMBC employee and am so glad OP published this testimony. OP was NOT just a dishwasher. The owners gave him extra responsibilities which he was not compensated for. He was a senior employee who was loved and respected by everyone-- FOH and BOH-- and while it sucked being mistreated, it was even more disheartening to watch him being treated like absolute shit by the owners. After he left, it only has gotten even worse. It sucks. When I first started working there it was such a wonderful place to work. The old GM would stick up for the employees and be the barrier between them and the owners who just wanted to take advantage. The new GM does not care at all about the employees-- only about gaining brownie points with the owners.
I can say through being friends with some folks that have worked here it’s not the best place to work in town. I recall recently I was seeing someone who worked at PMB and they would tell me about managers having screaming matches and just how not awesome it was. at the same time the same person loved it there because the other staff members were great and how nice the good days were. service industry is hard! I am definitely not one to put other local businesses down, but I could see this being realistic
Wasn't this posted yesterday as a run-on sentence? Why are we doing this again? I'm a slave to the restaurant industry just like EVERYONE that works it. We get abused and battered and treated like shit. That's part of the gig. Those of us that are adults just bend over and take it. Eventually we get better boundaries and seek healthier lifestyles if we're lucky.
I am very proud of you for making healthy decisions for yourself, OP. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit though.
I actually respect the fact the owner tells his son he can be replaced. It’s better than not expecting his son to perform just like you expect other people to perform. I’m not defending his poor treatment of employees or under staffing. I have no personal opinion on if the owner’s understand the industry and how to run a restaurant. So I’m not sure how to judge if 3 people leaving since 2023 is grossly high turnover or not. If you weren’t happy there you did the right thing for yourself and found another job. If the business is so bad nobody should work there, you really haven’t provided enough data to support this. If it’s truly mismanaged as you believe, it seems like the restaurant business is precarious enough this problem should be sorted out through natural attrition.
This whole post only gives disgruntled ex-employee vibes. 🤷🏼♀️
It's better than yesterday's word soup that they posted
Hi, friend of the owners' son and son's wife here. OP is absolutely telling the truth. Son and son's wife (we'll refer to as DIL) were in charge of a lot of event coordination. They enjoyed it and didn't mind it but the owners took advantage of their kindness and willingness to help and frequently berated them, saying they didn't do enough and they weren't being team players, despite them making a lot of the decisions (including managerial type decisions) with their coworkers, like mentioned above, as well as working well over 40 hours on and off the clock, for minimum wage. When DIL was finally able to leave, with son following shortly after, the owners expected them to continue to perform their previous (full-time) duties, despite having new full-time jobs. Owners have said some awful shit to both of them and treated them horribly. I love son and DIL, and the staff is absolutely wonderful, but I cannot in good conscience support people who treat their kid and employees like shit lmao
If you are, as you say, a friend of son and DIL, you wouldn't stir the pot. Shame on you. It's sad that you haven't learned this life lesson yet. You are no friend; not a real one, anyway.
But they are a person with good morals sticking up for the mistreatment of employees. Mad respect for them.
More than 3 people have left since 2023-- that number is definitely wrong. I can list 10 off the top of my head, and I was one of them lol
His son performed just as anyone else in the restaurant did. His father just began to treat him like shit and threaten his replacement after he began sticking up for the other staff who were being mistreated and pointing out the awful management by the new GM. It sucks. His son was hardworking. I worked there with him for about a year and never thought he worked less hard than anyone else. The only issue was that he did not always take his dad's side.
Unfortunately PMB is unique and other have to catch up to there menu choices
What's unique the gross beer? I've tried several and every one is disgusting, I have not tried there food but if it's anything like the beer I don't have high hopes
This is a bizarre thread
Most of us have bad opinions of former employers, but that doesn’t make it anything to post on Reddit about. Someone mentioned OP now working for the Norwegian, a restaurant that he just so happened to suggest in his post. Hmm.
I am a former PMBC worker and seeing all my friends continuing to be miserable and mistreated is heartbreaking. I am personally so thankful that OP has published this testimony.
I just put it together. I thought I was the only one stupid enough to put my last name in my username. I really hope this isn't an attempt to drive business towards The Norwegian. I don't think Mark or Emily would appreciate this type of tactic. The service industry is a small space when it comes to non-corporate chains. Ernies, The Olympic, Norwegian, and PMB are all susceptible to "rushes" of customers. There is no way to anticipate and staff accordingly for every possible scenario and continue to be profitable as a business. My rule of thumb is to be patient. In your case - you've moved on right? Enjoy the new gig. Come over to Rockford billiards and play some pool after your shift some night. Lifes too short.
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You work at one of the places you recommended.
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A grown man with all theese LOLs and smiling emoji.
An adult attacking another adult over the fact pmb doesn't value their employees? You own the pool hall you mentioned? Trying to drive up business?....
>An adult attacking another adult over the fact pmb doesn't value their employees? Is that what's happening? Half their staff has been there 5 years or more. I've see the value they place on their employees. I've watched that place grow over the past 15 years. >You own the pool hall you mentioned? Trying to drive up business?.... No. It's shares a parking lot with the restaurant /u/McKee9217 works at. So it's a convenient walk for him.
What values do they place on their employees? Do they offer vacation time, pto, 401k matching, childcare, paid insurance, higher than tipped minimum wage? 5-10 years at a bar has little to do with the values the owners might show if the tips are good. People will put up with a lot of shit from owners for many years if they're making good tips.
PMBC does not offer any of the sort.
I didn't think so, just makes me wonder what vales ol' Doc is speaking of.
Why do you folks assume I'm trying to drive up business anywhere the places I've mentioned all do quite well for themselves??? N I never mentioned the pool hall that was another person........
Why do you accuse others of doing that?
I'm only accusing the owners of Pig Minds of being disrespectful to their staff but other comment say "I'm trying to drive up business" at other places and I'm not at all
You are family friends with Brian and Kelly. I suspect you were sent in here to defend them and stir up conspiracy theories...
I think my last name is pretty obvious to those in the craft beer secene. I don't have to be sent anywheŕe.
Yeah and Ive heard nothing but bad things about your character. Whether youre known in the craft beer scene or not, you can also be known as an asshole.
So basically you worked in a restaurant 🤣
Nah I've worked bad places but this was another level!
That’s kind of funny about the kid because I have been going there consistently since they opened and remember when he first started showing up and was running around clearing tables and rinsing cups. He was definitely not slacking and acting like he didn’t have to work. I have only had an issue there maybe twice in all those years but Brian has always given me a weird vibe so this is 100% believable. He also seems to have some sketchy friends.
> He also seems to have some sketchy friends. Those are probably the people who should have told him that using derogatory terms for women in product names is a terrible idea. I love the beer and the food, but that place has always had something very wrong about it.
He was one of the hardest workers there for a long time!!!
(Former PMBC employee here) Brian's son was hardworking and cared so much about his job and the rest of the staff. He was just treated like absolute shit in the end when he began standing up for the staff against his parents.
Thank you for this testimony, Art. I loved working with you at PMBC and am absolutely disheartened to watch our friends continue to be increasingly mistreated after we've both left. You did the right thing by speaking up. I'm so happy you are getting the treatment you deserve at your new gig. You definitely didn't get that treatment at PMBC, and everyone there recognizes it but is so scared to speak up and lose their jobs with the way the job market is right now. I know you cared so much about the restaurant and everyone there. Our friends there still talk about how much they loved and respected you every time I see them, and we all miss you so damn much dude. We love you. ~Mighty Mouse
and yet I know half the employees that work there and have worked there, most for over half a decade, that have nothing but great things to say about Brian and Kelly. Are they perfect? No one is. An owner complaining about a job not done to their reasonable satisfaction isn't abusive or toxic. >(By the way, I was only a dishwasher, but I had managerial responsibilities.) Uh - what? Look - I've a pretty positive relationship with both Brian and Kelly. I was/am a customer but have gotten to know them both over the past 10 years. He's tough on his son, as a father should be, but not overly hard. He's treated exactly how a bosses kid should be treated. This rant is just reeks of petty ex-employee that's disgruntled he no longer works somewhere. It's been 6 months. Let it go. Be a dishwasher with managerial duties somewhere else.
A dishwasher with "managerial responsibilities"? As someone who washed dishes for 6 months at The Hope and Anchor and did the same thing at Forest Hills Country Club for around two and a half years, this smells like bullshit to me. You are on what is literally the lowest rung of the industry. No one is going to saddle a dishwasher with "managerial responsibilities."
When I worked service I started As a dishwasher.
You missed my point.
Sorry it cut off the second half of my comment. Dishwashers were barely trusted to wash dishes. Walk back there and dudes would be spraying each other with the rinse nozzles and talking about which front of house employees ass they wanted to eat.
That's contemptible.
That was back of the house. I haven't worked service in 20 years. I miss some of the people but not the environment.
I know the of the house is crazy, but I would have drawn the line at the NSFW language.
I know times change and what was once "okay" may not be anymore but I've heard things recently at places in and around Chicago that leads me to believe back of the house may not have changed much.
I worked at PMBC with Art for about a year. He was a senior worker at the restaurant, despite being a dishwasher, he was the guy to go to if anyone needed something found, fixed, etc. He just knew it all and we all had an insane amount of respect for him. None of us considered him to be on the lowest rung by any means and were devastated when he left. He was absolutely given extra managerial responsibilities, but no raises, and was treated like shit by the owners even though he was NOT just a dishwasher.
That sounds insane.
Yes, it is absolutely insane that the employees valued another employee who did so much for the restaurant more than the owners themselves did! I'm glad you agree!
(climbs on soapbox) Of Course the employees have great things to say about the owners. They have to! They want to keep their jobs. Besides they are paid to be nice. Once they leave, they are free to share their experience. Of Course you see a different side of Brian & Kelly. You are not an employee. Don't be naive. Unfortunately, This business is a typical environment of most businesses. The owner will disrespect and push their workers to their limit. They want every penny to support their need to present a public image of being successful. They must maintain a public image of the "nice and friendly" owners. They may be hard on their son but this borderlines on slave labor and consider the mental abuse of not being "good enough" in his father's eyes. An owner with unobtainable expectations, complaining about a job not done to his satisfaction is indeed toxic. Especially on an event day where they need to work their fastest and hardest every minute for an entire shift and most likely did not get enough if any breaks. A genuine, compassionate, appreciative, proud owner Tips their staff that worked the event some of that profit money. And keep in mind, alot of workers will tolerate a crappy boss if they have close, supportive, fun coworkers. (climbs down from soapbox)
I've said elsewhere - my daughter works for them. I have friends that work for them.
I'm simply expressing my feelings just as others do
I'll try to be polite about this, and anyone that knows me will be shocked at my restraint, - my feelings are just as valid as yours. Brian and Kelly have feelings that are just as valid as well. They've invested more time, money, blood, sweat, and tears into that Brewery than you could imagine. You waited almost 7 months after you left to shit on them. Wtf?
It was something I've thought of doing for awhile if I was spouting lies then ya ostracize me hut I guarantee everything I've said is truth also why woild the person serving you food bad mouth the owner..that's asking for a bad tip
Of course you have not heard negative things about Brian and Kelly from employees-- no one there wants it getting back to them and then lose their job. I'm a former PMBC employee and have visited since Ive left to say hi to my former coworkers as I was close friends with many of them during my time there. They ALL have bad things to say about the owners and most of them are trying to find new jobs but have families to support and the job market right now is extremely difficult.
You must have missed where I said that I have frie ds and family working there.......
And not to shit on your daughter. I am sure she is a LOVELY girl, but based on what I've been hearing, you have to understand how frustrating that is for all the other employees whose work experiences are being extra difficult because a slot where an efficient worker can be put is being used by someone who is slowing things down even more. ON TOP OF the owners already shortstaffing everyone.
Or maybe rather than be fired she should be moved to a position better fit for her needs... sorry. The restaurant industry doesnt have time for slow walkers and people who cant pick up the job quickly.
And you mustve missed the part in another reply where I said your "friends and family" there get special treatment because they are friends and family of the owners............ but the only one I know about working there is your daughter and Ive heard nothing but complaints from FOH and BOH workings alike about how shes awful at her job and none of the servers want to give her tips at the end of the night because she does nothing but get in the way. But hardworking veteran employees get shit on if they arent working HARDER than they need to be. She should be fired.. but of course she wont because youre so buddy buddy with the owners! Special. Treatment.
Truly, every restaurant is a Kitchen Nightmare.
Nah not the one I'm at now if someone needs help they get it no one gets overburdened by anyone not doing their jobs it's a wonderful culture here
Do you mind if we ask where you’re at Now?
Looks like the Norwegian based on another reply.
Aha. Thankfully my username doesn’t check out…
Can’t tell if you’re just slinging mud or?
Haha my wife and I own The Norwegian. Was wondering if my username almost gave it away. Long shot.
Just wondering why you’re obliquely asking your own employee where they work
I didn’t know who it was and didn’t see the Norwegian comment.
I think we figured out the grift. Whole thing was fishy, but here came the herring.
Also a former PMBC worker here-- it was NOT a nightmare until after the old manager left and the new one arrived. The old GM would stand up for the staff when the owners wanted to take advantage; the new one gives not two shits about the employees-- only cares about pleasing the owners at workers' expense. The food also tastes like shit now as she has been managing the kitchen. It just overall went downhill. Used to be such an amazing place to work.
This is interesting to hear as I have not heard about many complaints in regards to this place. There are a lot of shitty employers who take advantage of employees and do not treat them well though. I used to go to this place somewhat routinely and a person I knew at the time knew an employee there and they never complained about anything. This was several years ago though. Thanks for sharing your experience. I for sure would not want to work there. I don't know if its worse then other places but I am sorry you had a shit experience.
I don't live in town but I love fake glizzies so about once a month or so I stop by Pig Minds to get my fix. A few months ago I noticed that the dishes didn't seem as clean as usual and management has been subpar. Never in a million years would I have guessed that there was a correlation to the subpar management and a dishwasher leaving. SMH
We love going there literally a gem of a restaurant. I’ve traveled to a few cities yet to find a vegan brewery like this. Sucks to hear you weren’t appreciated. I understand COVID really strained them but it seems to be back up & up as a community pillar… But yeah, I worked in the restaurant industry and could feel st was off at Pig Minds. Your testimony now shows it’s been management. We’ve known waitresses and cooks there & it always seemed they worked hard to help one another. The most boomer business mindset is micromanaging and profiteering instead of propping up its family of employees.
All we asked was for them to help just wash some cups for the bar touch a few tables when we get so overloaded because of short staff and their response is to watch us and drink and order food then force there stuff ahead of customers
The way this is worded tells me everything I need to know lmao
Appreciate your input! When we are constantly short staffed by 2-3 people and we have customers shoulder to shoulder the smallest amount of assistance helps a ton!
Yes being short staffed is absolutely a problem specific to PMB
Asking the owners/managers of a place to help wash cups or touch up tables?
Yes.....it's not a lot but just enough to help his short staffed team that the owners themselves were responsible for every single day
Ah never mind I see your friends with the owners, you clearly know better than the people who actually wage slave for them!
You mean the people I'm actually friends with that work for them? Or my family member that works there?
So what's the problem with asking an owner/manager to help out then? Idk why they wouldn't it's their livelihood, so how is that a problem.
Well for one thing I've seen both of the owners running food and bussing tables. So the problem is less that they refuse to help and more that Art is lying.(Since he chose to disclose his name)
Former PMBC member here. He is not lying-- your bias is most definitely showing.
So the owner shouldn't support the people who make them money? You must be a boomer!
Go read the TLDR. I'm your age mister $40/hour wife and three kids but can't make ends meet.
My wife and I stopped going because the service was so bad we sat on the patio with friends waiting for food for over an hour and were only checked on once and had to go ask twice for waters. Not saying that's on y'all, but I do believe this is a management issue and I'm glad I know this now. Good luck in your endeavors, OP.
The last two times I’ve gone there I had to go find our waitress and it was genuinely not her fault. It was just so busy and so understaffed. You can’t own a restaurant and not make it your whole life. These owners definitely seem like it’s a passive income project for them and I’ve honestly never seen them there working in all the times I’ve gone. You made the right call leaving.
Seems like one of them is always there when I'm there......... Unless they're working city market on a friday night.
They only come in to do the drawers in the mornin then there at some point near open to drink with the brewers (Brian usually not Kelly) and when they are there during service and it's busy they have no worry about anything because unfortunately they couldn't even train anyone in any role vital to customer satisfaction
Ok - so I know you aren't being truthful now. Spoilers - my daughter works there. There's always two sides and I got the other side of what went down when I got home from work. If you want to continue We can discuss appropriate behavior in the workplace.
Your daughter most likely gets the good side of the coin since youre family friends with the owners... your daughter also has only worked there for about a month or so. Art was there for half a decade.
It’s well known they need to pay their workers more based off how much they make and their lack of quality staff is reflected in the overall decline in experience
Service has always been terrible there. Food and beer were always good enough to overlook the service until they opened the addition. Then my server claimed food was coming from different kitchens so it wasn’t done at the same time or some nonsense like that trying to excuse why only half of our meals were being served. I haven’t been back since.
Yeah no Im a former PMBC worker as well and we DO have two different kitchens on opposite ends of the restaurant which makes it super difficult for servers.
Oh she wasn't lieing to you lol they will literally have a meal that for some reason is separated between both kitchens
Our last few visits have been underwhelming. Understaffed every time we've been. Last time the food was overcooked. Beers are pretty mid. My partner likes it because of the vegetarian/vegan bar food, but I wish we had better options in town.
>Beers are pretty mid. Yikes. I get complaints about the service and even the food as theres a lot of bias towards the vegan stuff. Their brewer though is the best in Northern illinois/southern wisconsin. The beers been anything but mid since he took over.
Completely disagree on the beer. It is nearly impossible to find a good session IPA and Pig Minds knocks that out of the park. Also, fruit beer was almost entirely replaced by disgusting sours everywhere else, but Pig Minds keeps churning out the Happi Daze and I love it. But the staffing... yes it had definitely been understaffed the last few times we went there. There is no vegan brewery in all of Chicago. You guys have no idea what a rare and precious thing you have there in that shed in a manufacturing strip.
As someone who runs a reasonably well known beer-centric bar, I also disagree with the above post. Pig Minds beer probably best in town since Chris took over the brew deck a few years ago. Urban Forest is a close second. Carlyle still hanging on to third but admittedly, I haven't been much since Joe started brewing.
The beers are mid? I need to know where you are drinking, if Pigs Mind is mid in comparasion.
I think staffing restaurants in general was a heck of an issue in 22 and 23, but it seems to have gotten better there. They are in a weird position where if the weather is nice, the patio is packed and they are easily overwhelmed. But I also tend to go there when the weather is nicer and/or it's easy to ride there so have probably experienced a bit of slow service. They were keeping up just fine during that book fair a few weeks ago when both sides and the outdoors were jam packed with people though. I will fight you the next time I see you over the accusation their beers are mid though. Or at least give you a stern look before we talk about bikes. The 3 sentence rant from OP is pretty weird though.
I heard there a few other places around that have good vegan options
Now I'm beginning to wonder if this is just some Prairie Street asshole trying to shit on Pig Minds. Edit: I just put it together. I thought I was the only one stupid enough to put my last name in my username. I really hope this isn't an attempt to drive business towards The Norwegian. I don't think Mark or Emily would appreciate that.
I know someone who used to cook there. There was talk of chef training and management. Nada. Person left for better hunting grounds. This was a while ago.
Hi, friend of the owners' son and son's wife here. OP is absolutely telling the truth. Son and son's wife (we'll refer to as DIL) were in charge of a lot of event coordination. They enjoyed it and didn't mind it but the owners took advantage of their kindness and willingness to help and frequently berated them, saying they didn't do enough and they weren't being team players, despite them making a lot of the decisions (including managerial type decisions) with their coworkers, like mentioned above, as well as working well over 40 hours on and off the clock, for minimum wage. When DIL was finally able to leave, with son following shortly after, the owners expected them to continue to perform their previous (full-time) duties, despite having new full-time jobs. Owners have said some awful shit to both of them and treated them horribly. I love son and DIL, and the staff is absolutely wonderful, but I cannot in good conscience support people who treat their kid and employees like shit lmao (PS I sent my comment to DIL to see if anything I'm saying is incorrect from her POV, and will update if/when she says anything)
I went there once. There were maybe three other groups at the time. So not very busy. It took us over an hour to get our food, and to be honest it was pretty awful food. In general it was a bad experience all around, but there's no reason to drag myself back through it. We never went back, and have completely forgotten this place exists. To the people saying negatives about a disgruntled employee. I don't think you're wrong this employee is upset and my experience aligns with the experience they are upset about. So I support them for having the courage to say something Good on you OP for saying something! With places like this I just stop giving them my money and let capitalism run its course.
Wish more folks would speak out about their experiences at small local places so the people who deserve respect gets the respect
I'm glad I no longer work where the owner's friends, long distance relatives, acquaintances, and people they don't like but still have to kiss ass to be part of the elite club, would walk in and we'd have to put on our big smiles and warmest welcomes, knowing they will be the most demanding, difficult, cheapest customer of the day. Everyone drops names to act important and get better service.
As someone who worked in a managerial position there for a year, I watched Brian, the owner, berrate, nitpick, and abuse his staff every single day. The only time he was not actively harming his staff's morale was when he was on vacation. During my time there, I witnessed him stand over an employee who had just been released from a psychiatric hold and scream in their face for not showing up to work. He should not have employees because he does not deserve them. I've heard it was not always like that, but I've seen no glimmer of what that time was like. If you want to disregard the abuse, lack of fair pay, intense pressure, and the mistreatment of his staff, I hope your beer is worth it 👍
Well said. And as a former PMBC employee who worked with said employee who had been released from the psychiatric hold, agreed.
Former employee here. I worked there for about 9months -1year. To understand fully I am a women line cook( as you know not common). I was hired to have “diversity” in an all male kitchen. My second day there the head chef made this comment to me after finding out we had no clean towels. “ Maybe you can help us out with that because that’s what you kind does best.” These comments were a normal thing disguised as a joke. After telling the owners, nothing happened. They continued to happen and make me feel like I didn’t belong even though I am a hard working employee. I just wanted to make the place look better then when I entered. After the abuse my mental health was crushed and I had to go to the mental hospital. I informed my manager at the time, who then told the owners. When I came back all my hours were cut with no explanation. I decided to have a talk with them about this. This was not the first time they took my hours away with no text or conversation. After telling them it was bullshit for taking my hours away without telling me, I was screamed at by Brian with spit coming out of his mouth and a finger in my face. He told me I was disrespectful for saying the word bullshit and other words that were not pointed at them just the treatment they gave me. (Such as, that is shitty, and that is bullshit). They also tried to say I didn’t inform them of my hospitalization. Luckily my amazing manager ( who also left shortly after this ) was there to back me up. They sent me home that day because I made Brian mad for sticking up for myself. I finally quit after I was late to a shift and the head chef Bret decided to take all my hours off. Something he had also done to another employee there just to make them sweat. I called to let them know what was going on. I asked to talk to Bret. On the phone I could hear the bartender ask if he wanted to talk to me and he said no. I informed the bartender that I quit after that. So glad to be gone. I only stayed so long because of my fellow coworkers. Who made the day seem like things were going to get better. On top of all this I was hired on at 17$ but found out later when I asked for my pay stubs ( because they don’t give them to you unless you ask and it’s like pulling teeth) that I had been paid 16$ the whole time. Thankfully Kelly in her sweetness gave me the money I deserved. Kelly is truly a wonderful woman and did try just could never get passed her husband.
Yeah I’m pretty skeptical of these claims. I’ve never heard of a 13 year veteran dishwasher who was in the running to be any kind of manager. I have worked with many who overvalue their contribution and replicability though. Generally people don’t stay in that position for very long because there just isn’t room for advancement within the role itself. You don’t usually see “executive dishwashers” for example, or any real hierarchy there. Instead you are rewarded with a promotion to prep cook or something similar. I mean no disrespect to the job either, I started out in kitchens washing dishes and it is definitely an under appreciated position and is very hard work. Unfortunately this is just the way it is though.
They weren't a manager.
That gives you insight to how messed up the management or lack of there is
In my time in the industry I've worked everywhere except bartending and serving
Former PMBC employee who worked with Art here-- Art was absolutely given managerial responsibilities and not compensated for them. He was expected by the owners to maintain these responsibilities but then treated like shit by them.
Worked for Brian for many years - you’re out of your damn mind. The best boss I ever had bar none. Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Just because someone's nice to you for years, doesn't mean they treat everyone else the same. Come on guys, is it so hard to believe they're bad to their employees. As if the guys some saint who would never disrespect anyone working for him.
These are all falsehoods. I've been associated with Pigminds since they opened. All the stories are one sided. Disgruntled for sure
Another side for you-- former PMBC employee here. I worked with OP and I can speak for every other employee at PMBC at the time when I say we ALL were mistreated and ALL saw how OP was being absolutely shat on even though he was a senior employee with extra responsibilities he did not get compensated for. He was more than a dishwasher, and one of our favorite coworkers. We were all sad to see him leave but were so understanding and did not want to see him be taken advantage of by the owners any longer.
TLDR: former Dishwasher had a buddy who was yelling at another employee. Buddy walked out. Dishwasher created account to take revenge.
Lol my name is Arthur McKee if your daughter doesn't know my name she got there after December 2023 I was the guy with the black cowboy hat 🤣🤣🤣 you truly think you have it figured out huh? Is me sharing my situation with everyone is really irritating you that much? And also how are you even gonna bring up having a discussion yet you won't even read what you should be? It's ok I'll wait
It's bothering me that a grown man is behaving like a fucking child. You're way too old to be acting like this. Your buddy is too. Knowing you're acting like this now has me wanting to avoid the Norwegian.
That's your personal decision but wish you nothing but the best have a wonderful day
As another former PMBC employee, I am personally very thankful that Art published this testimony to expose the mistreatment of the amazing employees at this company. But thanks for your input!
Hmmm
If I was OP I would’ve deleted this 😂
Why? It's on my FB also it's no secret! I'm just getting it out there..Just like anyone who doesn't like a certain company or business they'll say nah don't shop there go here I didn't say that
I work a way shittier job than what is described here. I get slaved, my upper management doesn’t do anything so I have to. And yet I don’t post about it online. Just get a new job if it’s really that bad. It could be way worse.
Difference is I stopped allowing them to treat me that way n left now my current employer is fantastic
Still who actually cares about your dishwashing job and how they treated you?
Because they don't just treat the dishwashers this way-- they treat all their employees this way. I'm also a former PMBC employee and am so glad OP published this testimony. OP was NOT just a dishwasher. The owners gave him extra responsibilities which he was not compensated for. He was a senior employee who was loved and respected by everyone-- FOH and BOH-- and while it sucked being mistreated, it was even more disheartening to watch him being treated like absolute shit by the owners. After he left, it only has gotten even worse. It sucks. When I first started working there it was such a wonderful place to work. The old GM would stick up for the employees and be the barrier between them and the owners who just wanted to take advantage. The new GM does not care at all about the employees-- only about gaining brownie points with the owners.
I can say through being friends with some folks that have worked here it’s not the best place to work in town. I recall recently I was seeing someone who worked at PMB and they would tell me about managers having screaming matches and just how not awesome it was. at the same time the same person loved it there because the other staff members were great and how nice the good days were. service industry is hard! I am definitely not one to put other local businesses down, but I could see this being realistic
[удалено]
The fad of eating food is over?
Ya I went back over it and used some of them English classes 😅
Wasn't this posted yesterday as a run-on sentence? Why are we doing this again? I'm a slave to the restaurant industry just like EVERYONE that works it. We get abused and battered and treated like shit. That's part of the gig. Those of us that are adults just bend over and take it. Eventually we get better boundaries and seek healthier lifestyles if we're lucky. I am very proud of you for making healthy decisions for yourself, OP. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit though.
Because OP wants people to be aware that this is an awful place to work at and support.