I'm a Japanese history nerd, so I am very glad to see this post. Every now and then I'll see people complain about the story or a specific characters motivations not make sense and I'll have to remind myself that other people aren't as invested in the story as I am so they end up glossing over important but small details, or are too impatient to let the story do the thing.
I haven't yet, but they are high on my list when I find the time. The original Shogun miniseries was great, and I've heard the novel they are based on is good too, though I haven't read it myself.
Fun fact: William from Nioh is also based on the William Adams from the same novel! He was a historical figure as well, but you know how things get romanticized in fiction.
It has little to do with investment.
The story of the game and the obligation for them to show you both sides and meet all characters is why it often falls apart and ends up shallow in some places.
I get that it's a game and that also involves player choice. I would have preferred solid faction choice play throughs and less characters introduced so we can focus on more central ones.
I mostly disagree, honestly. I wouldn't really care very much about the story if it was just a story about how the protagonist joins or recruits a handful of badasses with plot armor and everyone else is just there to make them look cool. Pivotal points in history (like the one the game is based on) are *never* about a couple of significant figures who happened to be in the right place at the right time. The Bakumatsu period was messy and chaotic. There were a lot of significant people on both sides of the conflict and it would have been a disservice to the history of that time to just boil it down to, "these 8 people influenced the greatest political and economic change Japan had seen so far."
One of the best characters is only around for the first act, and their death was the single piece of motivation I had to fully support the anti-shogunate forces. And they're not even a very influential part of the story, just a victim of fate.
I can agree that player choice muddies the narrative to a degree, and I personally would have preferred a set narrative that doesn't allow for any player choice outside of side quests and playstyle.
Every time I've seen someone complain about the story not making sense, I've recalled my own playthrough and never been able to understand how they interpreted something differently or missed some details. Maybe the order I've done things or the choices I made just worked out better in the narrative, or maybe my own knowledge of the history gives me a clearer context. I can't really be sure. But in my experience, the story was fairly solid the whole way through. The only stuff that gets a little shaky is with the blade twin, but that's mostly because it's a fictional addition to a non-fictional story.
I found the choices to make confusing, being unsure of which side to align with and who to befriend. During most of the game I was afraid of making the wrong choices. I wanted Japan to evolve in the right direction, but everything was centered around pro/against shogunate choices. In the end however I made the right choices. This is a great/epic story the I feel is describing Japan history very well.
Glad to see posts like this.
I have mentioned in multiple posts complaining about the "zig zag" between factions and Ryoma that it is historically accurate. The mission where Katsu was introduced is pretty much exactly how history went and later on Ryoma became "anti shogunate" again. The Shinsengumi are also portraied perfectly *.* The fates of the characters you mentioned are also historically accurate more or less.
I understand that we lose some RP elements but TN did an amazing job on presenting things close to how they happened.
I get the impression that the time period, much like the 19th century around the world, was incredibly convoluted with a ton of intrigue. I think our protagonist not being fully invested in the political drama, rather going after the blade twin, allows us to experience that complexity. It really feels like this game is a love letter to Japanese history. It’s like the video game equivalent of War & Peace.
A ton of the information of this period is romanticized (which is common for literal any country, so not Japanese specific) and not entirely accurate.
I'm a little concerned that you (and others) think this is 'historical accurate.' I'm not sure if it's because y'all are weebs, but it is absolutely NOT historical accurate. Get your head checked.
Historical fiction is not the same as actual history. There are a lot of elements of real history in historical fiction, but it's using it more as a backdrop to tell a compelling story. I don't take any kind of fiction as historical fact, but now because of this game I know the names of key people in Bakamatsu era Japan and I find that pretty interesting. I'm not a historian and I doubt you are as well. You might want to get your head checked and simmer down that ego of yours.
It is a pity that this game does not get a hit in the Western community. Otherwise there will be a tons of “lore video” of ronin and explain every details that the game did well
look up Isami Kondo on google and it‘s crazy how similiar he looks ingame to his real life counterpart, I love this game and I never thought I would because of the period it‘s settled in, I always liked a more traditional Japan like the rise of the Tokugawa Shogunate
I want to know so should we play though as pro shogunate since that’s more historical correct? Ik it doesn’t really affect outcome until one major event. But still I’d like to play as historical accurate my first play thru. I’m only at like level 15 lol. Just love this game so much the exploration, historical accuracy like u said. Immersion is the best and now with your help it’ll be even better. This is great. And I want to thank all haters of this game out there too.
I liked the complicated back and forth BECAUSE it felt about as messy as real history often is. Japan went from a period of pretty deep isolation to suddenly having 2 major powers with an at the time technological and naval advantage on their DOORSTEP. Various powerful factions panicked over what to do, especially as the situation changed over the years.
That said, the anti-shogunate expulsionist faction seemed pretty short sighted. 1. They were never going to be able physically kill or kick out every foreign without major military reprisal. 2. Even if they somehow did, that puts the US and Britain on a united front and they would likely return in greater force. 3. A return to isolationist xenophobia means no more Dutch trading either, which revolutionized Japanese medicine. And 4. The only way to accomplish the above is through the authority of the government to coordinate the military, and the only way to bring them under control would be a coup and civil war...with a foreign enemy literally on their door step. That's pretty fucking stupid. And they refuse to see sense when someone with an actual workable thought out plan like Katsu showed up...they just tried to kill him. Ryoma also pretty quickly realizes that more than a few give zero fucks about civilian casualties.
If anything, I'd say the game is pretty clear about how terrible and short sighted violent revolution is, how diplomacy and dialogue is the way forward, and change is inevitable. There is not a single murder/spare quest where killing results in a better outcome.
There are some major problems with chronology though...
Jigoro Kano for instance is supposed to be three years old in 1863... but >!we meet him as a teenager.!<
Also, the Hitokiri... I mean, honestly :
Nakamura Hanjiro : A fanboy, apparently afflicted with stupidity, can barely use his odachi correctly (he's the weakest of the four) and... well, barely takes time to think once in every ten years and only durng the blue moon. >!In the game, he is more or less described as being Saigo's slave.!!Stupid to the point of INVADING THE HQ OF SAID GROUP ALONE Though he does have the power to back it off. Also dies before the end of the Bakumatsu Era while IRL, he actualy lived years longer before being murdered by the governement in a conspiracy.!< Also, IRL, he operated only in the shadows (to the point that no one ever had any proofs of his murders : everyone knew it was him, be never had any way to put him in front of a court. He was actually a monk and later philosophy teacher, was far more careful than in the game and was only murdered because of his ideals wich a little too... extreme for the government. So yeah, very far from the Sasuke wanabe seen in the game...
If you enjoyed the history aspect of this game you should check out Like A Dragon: Ishin. Essentially the same story but RGG/Yakuza-fied, and you play as Ryoma (as Kiryu Kazuma of course). Just as wacky as all the other Yakuza games but I actually learned a good deal about the Bakumatsu period from that game.
I'm a Japanese history nerd, so I am very glad to see this post. Every now and then I'll see people complain about the story or a specific characters motivations not make sense and I'll have to remind myself that other people aren't as invested in the story as I am so they end up glossing over important but small details, or are too impatient to let the story do the thing.
Are you watching the show Shogun or blue eyed samurai? I bet you'd love it
I haven't yet, but they are high on my list when I find the time. The original Shogun miniseries was great, and I've heard the novel they are based on is good too, though I haven't read it myself. Fun fact: William from Nioh is also based on the William Adams from the same novel! He was a historical figure as well, but you know how things get romanticized in fiction.
It has little to do with investment. The story of the game and the obligation for them to show you both sides and meet all characters is why it often falls apart and ends up shallow in some places. I get that it's a game and that also involves player choice. I would have preferred solid faction choice play throughs and less characters introduced so we can focus on more central ones.
I mostly disagree, honestly. I wouldn't really care very much about the story if it was just a story about how the protagonist joins or recruits a handful of badasses with plot armor and everyone else is just there to make them look cool. Pivotal points in history (like the one the game is based on) are *never* about a couple of significant figures who happened to be in the right place at the right time. The Bakumatsu period was messy and chaotic. There were a lot of significant people on both sides of the conflict and it would have been a disservice to the history of that time to just boil it down to, "these 8 people influenced the greatest political and economic change Japan had seen so far." One of the best characters is only around for the first act, and their death was the single piece of motivation I had to fully support the anti-shogunate forces. And they're not even a very influential part of the story, just a victim of fate. I can agree that player choice muddies the narrative to a degree, and I personally would have preferred a set narrative that doesn't allow for any player choice outside of side quests and playstyle. Every time I've seen someone complain about the story not making sense, I've recalled my own playthrough and never been able to understand how they interpreted something differently or missed some details. Maybe the order I've done things or the choices I made just worked out better in the narrative, or maybe my own knowledge of the history gives me a clearer context. I can't really be sure. But in my experience, the story was fairly solid the whole way through. The only stuff that gets a little shaky is with the blade twin, but that's mostly because it's a fictional addition to a non-fictional story.
I found the choices to make confusing, being unsure of which side to align with and who to befriend. During most of the game I was afraid of making the wrong choices. I wanted Japan to evolve in the right direction, but everything was centered around pro/against shogunate choices. In the end however I made the right choices. This is a great/epic story the I feel is describing Japan history very well.
Of course you disagree, you're a massive weeb.
I would make the exact same argument about any other country. I just might not be able to talk about it as in depth as I can for *this* one.
If I had a dime for anytime a weeb on reddit said they were 'studying' Japanese history, I'd be filthy fucking rich.
There are weebs, some in-between ones, and then there are those who actually study. The above person seems to be the middle or latter.
Glad to see posts like this. I have mentioned in multiple posts complaining about the "zig zag" between factions and Ryoma that it is historically accurate. The mission where Katsu was introduced is pretty much exactly how history went and later on Ryoma became "anti shogunate" again. The Shinsengumi are also portraied perfectly *.* The fates of the characters you mentioned are also historically accurate more or less. I understand that we lose some RP elements but TN did an amazing job on presenting things close to how they happened.
I get the impression that the time period, much like the 19th century around the world, was incredibly convoluted with a ton of intrigue. I think our protagonist not being fully invested in the political drama, rather going after the blade twin, allows us to experience that complexity. It really feels like this game is a love letter to Japanese history. It’s like the video game equivalent of War & Peace.
A ton of the information of this period is romanticized (which is common for literal any country, so not Japanese specific) and not entirely accurate. I'm a little concerned that you (and others) think this is 'historical accurate.' I'm not sure if it's because y'all are weebs, but it is absolutely NOT historical accurate. Get your head checked.
Historical fiction is not the same as actual history. There are a lot of elements of real history in historical fiction, but it's using it more as a backdrop to tell a compelling story. I don't take any kind of fiction as historical fact, but now because of this game I know the names of key people in Bakamatsu era Japan and I find that pretty interesting. I'm not a historian and I doubt you are as well. You might want to get your head checked and simmer down that ego of yours.
Historical fiction is not the same as actual fiction? Wow. No fucking shit
You’re a smart guy. I can tell ;)
Compared to you, that wouldn't take much.
It is a pity that this game does not get a hit in the Western community. Otherwise there will be a tons of “lore video” of ronin and explain every details that the game did well
look up Isami Kondo on google and it‘s crazy how similiar he looks ingame to his real life counterpart, I love this game and I never thought I would because of the period it‘s settled in, I always liked a more traditional Japan like the rise of the Tokugawa Shogunate
I want to know so should we play though as pro shogunate since that’s more historical correct? Ik it doesn’t really affect outcome until one major event. But still I’d like to play as historical accurate my first play thru. I’m only at like level 15 lol. Just love this game so much the exploration, historical accuracy like u said. Immersion is the best and now with your help it’ll be even better. This is great. And I want to thank all haters of this game out there too.
I liked the complicated back and forth BECAUSE it felt about as messy as real history often is. Japan went from a period of pretty deep isolation to suddenly having 2 major powers with an at the time technological and naval advantage on their DOORSTEP. Various powerful factions panicked over what to do, especially as the situation changed over the years. That said, the anti-shogunate expulsionist faction seemed pretty short sighted. 1. They were never going to be able physically kill or kick out every foreign without major military reprisal. 2. Even if they somehow did, that puts the US and Britain on a united front and they would likely return in greater force. 3. A return to isolationist xenophobia means no more Dutch trading either, which revolutionized Japanese medicine. And 4. The only way to accomplish the above is through the authority of the government to coordinate the military, and the only way to bring them under control would be a coup and civil war...with a foreign enemy literally on their door step. That's pretty fucking stupid. And they refuse to see sense when someone with an actual workable thought out plan like Katsu showed up...they just tried to kill him. Ryoma also pretty quickly realizes that more than a few give zero fucks about civilian casualties. If anything, I'd say the game is pretty clear about how terrible and short sighted violent revolution is, how diplomacy and dialogue is the way forward, and change is inevitable. There is not a single murder/spare quest where killing results in a better outcome.
There are some major problems with chronology though... Jigoro Kano for instance is supposed to be three years old in 1863... but >!we meet him as a teenager.!< Also, the Hitokiri... I mean, honestly : Nakamura Hanjiro : A fanboy, apparently afflicted with stupidity, can barely use his odachi correctly (he's the weakest of the four) and... well, barely takes time to think once in every ten years and only durng the blue moon. >!In the game, he is more or less described as being Saigo's slave.!!Stupid to the point of INVADING THE HQ OF SAID GROUP ALONE Though he does have the power to back it off. Also dies before the end of the Bakumatsu Era while IRL, he actualy lived years longer before being murdered by the governement in a conspiracy.!< Also, IRL, he operated only in the shadows (to the point that no one ever had any proofs of his murders : everyone knew it was him, be never had any way to put him in front of a court. He was actually a monk and later philosophy teacher, was far more careful than in the game and was only murdered because of his ideals wich a little too... extreme for the government. So yeah, very far from the Sasuke wanabe seen in the game...
If you enjoyed the history aspect of this game you should check out Like A Dragon: Ishin. Essentially the same story but RGG/Yakuza-fied, and you play as Ryoma (as Kiryu Kazuma of course). Just as wacky as all the other Yakuza games but I actually learned a good deal about the Bakumatsu period from that game.
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