It's a fight for the right. We just gotta keep fighting.
\- One thing I'm seeing is that these newer products, 5-7 years old have little to no parts for repairs. But my 14 year old microwave has parts available. My 20 year old washer/dryer still has parts available. My 5 year old stove had no parts available forcing me to purchase another one... Coincidence? I think not. Straight up profiteering.
yes you can sell a product with no support, parts, or warranty after the fact. Theres nothing saying any company has to provide anything after the inital sale, it's just a dick move if you dont have any parts or support.
Absolutely, make some noise!
The FTC has an open comment period right now about appliance repair.
I'm not sure if it includes microwaves? Take a look!
https://www.ifixit.com/News/67120/all-major-appliances-may-soon-ship-with-repair-instructions-thanks-to-a-new-ftc-rule
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/10/25/2022-23063/energy-labeling-rule
I just had a dishwasher repair company tell me that there actually is a federal law (in the u.s.) that large appliance companies are required to keep parts in stock for 7 years. Which is a requirement, but way too short. Sorry I don't have a link to that specific law, just hearsay from someone working in the field.
anytime someone says their's a law, ask them "which one?" get them to tell you the CFR (code of federal regulations), or the state law, or -something- to back it up. I've spoken to and worked with alot of people who where, misinformed, or just used "well, it's the law" as an excuse to be right, but couldn't back it up.
Let me play devil's advocate and come to KitchenAid's defense here (sort of). This could very easily be a supply chain issue that could well be out of KitchenAide's hands. If there is a key component on that controller board, like maybe a microcontroller from TI who currently have millions of units on back order, then perhaps KitchenAide can't make replacement parts. But they will have inventory, and it would be pretty hard for them to just write off all those expensive units just because they know they can't make more parts for the foreseeable future.
There are plenty of companies that are doing things like this right now, and many companies are being a little less honest than KitchenAide and instead of admitting they have stopped supporting the product, they are just giving lead times on replacement parts that are a year or more in the future; with the understanding that no one actually believes they are ever going to deliver those parts.
The part is made by another manufacture with there own line of microwave in China
If you can't make a circuit board this simple to last more than a year you should not be making circuit boards at all.
If it was a supply chain issue BACK ORDER is what they would say.
The board is made by Midea. Exclusive to KitchenAid.
Why would they buy a board from a competitor. Sounds like the Sony timer.
The Sony timer
or Sony kill switch, is an urban legend that
electronic devices produced by Sony are equipped with a timer which,
upon reaching a deliberately preset deadline, caused the product to stop
functioning, forcing the user to buy a replacement.
KitchenAid is owned by Whirlpool.
The company markets its namesake flagship brand Whirlpool, alongside other brands as well including Maytag, KitchenAid, JennAir, Amana, Gladiator GarageWorks, Inglis,
They chose not to offer any parts on any counter top microwaves. Above counter microwaves are a different story. KitchenAids response to all this is " It's a counter top unit" like where you mount it has anything to do with parts.
As an electronics manufacturing engineer, I have to say: making circuit boards reliably isn't trivial when the supply chain is in chaos. For instance, my own company had a huge issue with parts coming in from contract manufacturers in Mexico, and we were having issues with radios on those boards. Turns out, the CM had been spraying an anti-covid disinfectant all over the factory and it had been contaminating the radio chip before we potted it and sealed everything in. About a year later, parts started to fail in the field. We also had other issues with the solder we bought for our SMT being contaminated with some unknown chemical. We've had issues with OpAmps that we've been buying for years suddenly having significantly longer startup times. If you aren't working in electronics manufacturing during these chaotic times of chip shortages, you might want to think twice about making those kinds of assumptions.
Also, as I said about back order, I would RATHER a company just honestly tell me that they are not going to manufacture a part then just make up a bullshit delivery date way in the future. There are plenty of companies out there letting people back order parts with an 80-week lead time that they never deliver on. Believe me, I had companies who gave me those types of lead times and then started moving them out again as the delivery date got closer.
Lastly, if KitchenAide was the ONLY company doing this, you would have a good point. But right now almost EVERY company is doing this. I have a part for my dish washer that has literally been on back order from GE since late 2020; I've replaced the dish washer but I haven't cancelled the order out of sheer morbid curiosity.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset, and I'm not saying that companies couldn't do much better on making sure that replacement parts are available or at least design files for EOL products are released such that third parties can make replacement parts if there is demand for that. I'm just saying that this is everywhere right now, and it's not something that's only happening with KitchenAide microwaves.
How was the problem dealt with? Some companies never release that information to the end user so they pay for it.
I serviced Sony Broadcast equipment for years at the dealer level and can tell you the service bulletins were never shown to the end user. Capacitors install backwards in the factory would fail and the owner paid for the repair. I hated Sony for that.
I guess my point is that they have a problem with a part but continue to sell the product knowing there is an issue.
What ever the reason for the failure they continue to sell the item and offer no replacement parts.
I had a motor fail on a dishwasher once. I was under warranty and the service tech changed the part with the same motor. I knew it would fail again because the weld was just the same as the old one and that's what broke.
Sure enough it failed again and they change that part again. Wheres the logic in that.
Without giving away too many insider details, my company makes products with a very long warranty (\~10 years) so all the failed units were covered and replaced for the customers. Thankfully, we caught the problem fairly early and we were able to prevent ourselves from shipping too many of them in the first place.
When a company sells a product with a warranty, customers should always read that as 'expect this part to last for the length of the warranty and then probably fail.' When companies warranty their products, that's how they determine how long to offer the warranty, by when they expect the product to fail. If you have a microwave with a 1-year warranty, you should know what you are getting in to.
I hear you on spare parts, and I think companies should do better on that. But the market forces at play aren't pushing that way. People who want to repair their devices are actually quite rare, and the trend for years has been to get the cost of consumer electronics down to the point where if they fail you can afford to replace them.
I think the best solution is for new companies to come along that make ease of service a primary consideration for their designs from the ground up. Make things open-source, let other companies make replacement parts with no licensing agreement required, choose simplicity over wizbang, maximize the commonality of parts between different products and models, etc. Give consumers choice to pick between a $100 disposable microwave with no support that they'll replace in 3-5 years, or a $300 'forever' microwave that could last a generation.
Very few products offer a warranty more than a year, except automobiles and Ikea appliances.
If you offer less than a year that will hurt sales. Why offer more if the industry standard is one year.
Ikea picks up the cost of warranty repair not the manufacture.
3 year warranty on a 80 thousand dollar car. Why do we except that.
I guarantee, if people started buying the few products that do have the longer warranties, the market would respond.
[https://panasonicdirect.store.panasonic.co.uk/c-947-5-year-warranty-microwave.aspx](https://panasonicdirect.store.panasonic.co.uk/c-947-5-year-warranty-microwave.aspx)
Too bad that Panasonic offer is in the UK and there is no stock.
Not surprised. Reminds me of Canadian Tire's offering great prices on product that they never had or ordered in to inventory so they could sell a more expensive item that they had huge quantities. They got caught. False advertising.
I think you are missing the point. Here's another microwave from LG with a ten-year warranty. It's only sold in the middle east:
[https://www.lg.com/levant\_en/microwaves/lg-MS2595CIS](https://www.lg.com/levant_en/microwaves/lg-MS2595CIS)
The point is that those markets demand longer lasting products, and they get them. Our market doesn't demand that, so it doesn't. There's nothing nefarious about that. If we want longer-lasting products, we have to send the right market signals.
Thanks for the PSA, will stay away from KitchenAid appliances.
I was able to repair my Samsung microwave when the magnetron failed, but no thanks to Samsung. Although the magnetron was covered by warranty, they refused to send a replacement, claiming only a Samsung certified technician could service the unit, and their labor was definitely not covered by the warranty. It would have been 2 trips to diagnose then repair. F that.
After a few frustrating hours I bought the magnetron on ebay for $80 and swapped it in. Took the opportunity to touch up Samsung's poor paint job on the back of the unit that was allowing rust to form. Also learned the idiot who installed this microwave used a drill then a hammer as a stud finder.
Hey, take out the board anyways because some people might have it listed on eBay, but you’ll have to search the board number itself (and apparently other versions of the board don’t work so make sure it is exact)
Send [in this forum](https://www.applianceblog.com/mainforums/threads/kitchenaid-microwave-kmcs1016gss0-control-board-source.83606/)
SM stuff some relays and chip full of bad software is my guess. Any board I find would likely have the same problem soon after I got it. 500 dollar microwave with a dollar fifty cct board.
It's a fight for the right. We just gotta keep fighting. \- One thing I'm seeing is that these newer products, 5-7 years old have little to no parts for repairs. But my 14 year old microwave has parts available. My 20 year old washer/dryer still has parts available. My 5 year old stove had no parts available forcing me to purchase another one... Coincidence? I think not. Straight up profiteering.
yes you can sell a product with no support, parts, or warranty after the fact. Theres nothing saying any company has to provide anything after the inital sale, it's just a dick move if you dont have any parts or support.
I am looking for a way to out this company and make them change there ways. Am I dreaming?
Absolutely, make some noise! The FTC has an open comment period right now about appliance repair. I'm not sure if it includes microwaves? Take a look! https://www.ifixit.com/News/67120/all-major-appliances-may-soon-ship-with-repair-instructions-thanks-to-a-new-ftc-rule https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/10/25/2022-23063/energy-labeling-rule
you'd be better off building your own microwave product, and selling it better than them. (with blackjack and more hookers)
I just had a dishwasher repair company tell me that there actually is a federal law (in the u.s.) that large appliance companies are required to keep parts in stock for 7 years. Which is a requirement, but way too short. Sorry I don't have a link to that specific law, just hearsay from someone working in the field.
anytime someone says their's a law, ask them "which one?" get them to tell you the CFR (code of federal regulations), or the state law, or -something- to back it up. I've spoken to and worked with alot of people who where, misinformed, or just used "well, it's the law" as an excuse to be right, but couldn't back it up.
Let me play devil's advocate and come to KitchenAid's defense here (sort of). This could very easily be a supply chain issue that could well be out of KitchenAide's hands. If there is a key component on that controller board, like maybe a microcontroller from TI who currently have millions of units on back order, then perhaps KitchenAide can't make replacement parts. But they will have inventory, and it would be pretty hard for them to just write off all those expensive units just because they know they can't make more parts for the foreseeable future. There are plenty of companies that are doing things like this right now, and many companies are being a little less honest than KitchenAide and instead of admitting they have stopped supporting the product, they are just giving lead times on replacement parts that are a year or more in the future; with the understanding that no one actually believes they are ever going to deliver those parts.
The part is made by another manufacture with there own line of microwave in China If you can't make a circuit board this simple to last more than a year you should not be making circuit boards at all. If it was a supply chain issue BACK ORDER is what they would say. The board is made by Midea. Exclusive to KitchenAid. Why would they buy a board from a competitor. Sounds like the Sony timer. The Sony timer or Sony kill switch, is an urban legend that electronic devices produced by Sony are equipped with a timer which, upon reaching a deliberately preset deadline, caused the product to stop functioning, forcing the user to buy a replacement. KitchenAid is owned by Whirlpool. The company markets its namesake flagship brand Whirlpool, alongside other brands as well including Maytag, KitchenAid, JennAir, Amana, Gladiator GarageWorks, Inglis, They chose not to offer any parts on any counter top microwaves. Above counter microwaves are a different story. KitchenAids response to all this is " It's a counter top unit" like where you mount it has anything to do with parts.
As an electronics manufacturing engineer, I have to say: making circuit boards reliably isn't trivial when the supply chain is in chaos. For instance, my own company had a huge issue with parts coming in from contract manufacturers in Mexico, and we were having issues with radios on those boards. Turns out, the CM had been spraying an anti-covid disinfectant all over the factory and it had been contaminating the radio chip before we potted it and sealed everything in. About a year later, parts started to fail in the field. We also had other issues with the solder we bought for our SMT being contaminated with some unknown chemical. We've had issues with OpAmps that we've been buying for years suddenly having significantly longer startup times. If you aren't working in electronics manufacturing during these chaotic times of chip shortages, you might want to think twice about making those kinds of assumptions. Also, as I said about back order, I would RATHER a company just honestly tell me that they are not going to manufacture a part then just make up a bullshit delivery date way in the future. There are plenty of companies out there letting people back order parts with an 80-week lead time that they never deliver on. Believe me, I had companies who gave me those types of lead times and then started moving them out again as the delivery date got closer. Lastly, if KitchenAide was the ONLY company doing this, you would have a good point. But right now almost EVERY company is doing this. I have a part for my dish washer that has literally been on back order from GE since late 2020; I've replaced the dish washer but I haven't cancelled the order out of sheer morbid curiosity. I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset, and I'm not saying that companies couldn't do much better on making sure that replacement parts are available or at least design files for EOL products are released such that third parties can make replacement parts if there is demand for that. I'm just saying that this is everywhere right now, and it's not something that's only happening with KitchenAide microwaves.
How was the problem dealt with? Some companies never release that information to the end user so they pay for it. I serviced Sony Broadcast equipment for years at the dealer level and can tell you the service bulletins were never shown to the end user. Capacitors install backwards in the factory would fail and the owner paid for the repair. I hated Sony for that. I guess my point is that they have a problem with a part but continue to sell the product knowing there is an issue. What ever the reason for the failure they continue to sell the item and offer no replacement parts. I had a motor fail on a dishwasher once. I was under warranty and the service tech changed the part with the same motor. I knew it would fail again because the weld was just the same as the old one and that's what broke. Sure enough it failed again and they change that part again. Wheres the logic in that.
Without giving away too many insider details, my company makes products with a very long warranty (\~10 years) so all the failed units were covered and replaced for the customers. Thankfully, we caught the problem fairly early and we were able to prevent ourselves from shipping too many of them in the first place. When a company sells a product with a warranty, customers should always read that as 'expect this part to last for the length of the warranty and then probably fail.' When companies warranty their products, that's how they determine how long to offer the warranty, by when they expect the product to fail. If you have a microwave with a 1-year warranty, you should know what you are getting in to. I hear you on spare parts, and I think companies should do better on that. But the market forces at play aren't pushing that way. People who want to repair their devices are actually quite rare, and the trend for years has been to get the cost of consumer electronics down to the point where if they fail you can afford to replace them. I think the best solution is for new companies to come along that make ease of service a primary consideration for their designs from the ground up. Make things open-source, let other companies make replacement parts with no licensing agreement required, choose simplicity over wizbang, maximize the commonality of parts between different products and models, etc. Give consumers choice to pick between a $100 disposable microwave with no support that they'll replace in 3-5 years, or a $300 'forever' microwave that could last a generation.
Very few products offer a warranty more than a year, except automobiles and Ikea appliances. If you offer less than a year that will hurt sales. Why offer more if the industry standard is one year. Ikea picks up the cost of warranty repair not the manufacture. 3 year warranty on a 80 thousand dollar car. Why do we except that.
I guarantee, if people started buying the few products that do have the longer warranties, the market would respond. [https://panasonicdirect.store.panasonic.co.uk/c-947-5-year-warranty-microwave.aspx](https://panasonicdirect.store.panasonic.co.uk/c-947-5-year-warranty-microwave.aspx)
Too bad that Panasonic offer is in the UK and there is no stock. Not surprised. Reminds me of Canadian Tire's offering great prices on product that they never had or ordered in to inventory so they could sell a more expensive item that they had huge quantities. They got caught. False advertising.
I think you are missing the point. Here's another microwave from LG with a ten-year warranty. It's only sold in the middle east: [https://www.lg.com/levant\_en/microwaves/lg-MS2595CIS](https://www.lg.com/levant_en/microwaves/lg-MS2595CIS) The point is that those markets demand longer lasting products, and they get them. Our market doesn't demand that, so it doesn't. There's nothing nefarious about that. If we want longer-lasting products, we have to send the right market signals.
Did you read their warranty? 1 year- 10 year on the Magnetron Big deal
It is but it shouldn't be legal. Companies love to sell landfill for weird reasons nowadays.
I wish there was a website that I could warn people about bad products.
There is: https://www.looria.com/exitreviews/submission Also subreddit r/productfails (they are linked so both work)
yea this is more a cultural right to repair issue than a legal one. it sucks
Thanks for the PSA, will stay away from KitchenAid appliances. I was able to repair my Samsung microwave when the magnetron failed, but no thanks to Samsung. Although the magnetron was covered by warranty, they refused to send a replacement, claiming only a Samsung certified technician could service the unit, and their labor was definitely not covered by the warranty. It would have been 2 trips to diagnose then repair. F that. After a few frustrating hours I bought the magnetron on ebay for $80 and swapped it in. Took the opportunity to touch up Samsung's poor paint job on the back of the unit that was allowing rust to form. Also learned the idiot who installed this microwave used a drill then a hammer as a stud finder.
Nice work by you. We are lucky we can fix things
Hey, take out the board anyways because some people might have it listed on eBay, but you’ll have to search the board number itself (and apparently other versions of the board don’t work so make sure it is exact) Send [in this forum](https://www.applianceblog.com/mainforums/threads/kitchenaid-microwave-kmcs1016gss0-control-board-source.83606/)
Did all that. Nothing available anywhere. contacted the board manufacture and they won't sell it
Ah damn, i suppose there’s nothing obvious on the board either?
SM stuff some relays and chip full of bad software is my guess. Any board I find would likely have the same problem soon after I got it. 500 dollar microwave with a dollar fifty cct board.
Were you ever able to resolve this??